Week 4 MNF Discussion Thread
This thread is for discussion of action on the field before, during, and after Week 4 Monday Night Football between Green Bay and Philadelphia.
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10-2-2006 at 9:47 AM by
The Outsiders
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When McNabb and co were reviewing film of the Packers this week, they must have felt like they were at Texas Tech. Basically, only one Green Bay unit is (mostly) functioning - the pass offense.
The fourth DC in four seasons, Bob Sanders, is out of his depth, and the secondary is brutal. The Eagles’ receivers have been taking turns to go over 100 yards, and tonight even Freddie Mitchell would manage.
The Packers’ o-line struggles are neither new nor unexpected. But the running game is a disappointment. GB came into the preseason with three potential starters: one fumble-prone (Gado), one fumble-and-injury-prone (Green), and one fumble-and-injury-and-scatophilia-prone (Davenport). Green is injured (having already fumbled twice) and the others are gone, so GB will start either fumble-prone Herron or Texan reject Morency. In addition, long-serving FB Henderson has been demoted, leaving the Packers with an inexperienced, unproven backfield which the Eagles ought to devour.
Favre had already thrown more passes than any other QB coming into week 4, and that trend is set to continue. So I’d put the over/under on Favre interceptions at two (as a Packer fan and optimist).
:: ammek — 10/2/2006 @ 10:28 am
Clarification: Green is questionable. Even if he starts, we’ll see plenty of Morency.
:: ammek — 10/2/2006 @ 10:47 am
http://tinyurl.com/jgqyh
Haynesworth gets 5 games for the stomp on the head …
(seems a bit light)
:: Diane — 10/2/2006 @ 5:44 pm
I don’t really know why people think that the Eagles secondary being a bit banged up will really matter in this game. It mattered in the Giants game not because Hanson and Wynn sucked (although I’m not fond of Wynn). It mattered because Hanson and Wynn were midgets compared to Toomer/Burress, and the DC for Philly didn’t have the option of playing the receivers closer to the line. If they played closer than 5 yards, Burress and Toomer would’ve literally shoved Wynn/Hanson to the ground if they tried anything.
Driver and Jennings are not Burress and Toomer’s size. Hanson and Wynn match up much, much better against them.
The 49ers scoring 24 last week had little to do with a poor secondary - the large gains occurred on plays where Hood was clearly limping. The 49ers got close twice due to really good special teams - starting Philly at the 7, then the 17, both of which gave them the ball at midfield.
:: Pat — 10/2/2006 @ 6:41 pm
And… apparently Green and Westbrook are both out (or at least not starting) for the evening.
Sigh. God, I wish Westbrook could stay healthy.
:: Pat — 10/2/2006 @ 7:18 pm
i didn’t hear what was specifically wrong with his knee, but from the way it sounds it could be a blood clot
:: queequeg — 10/2/2006 @ 7:29 pm
The Official MNF Drinking Game
Every time someone mentions a Packer starter and you say, “Who the hell is that?”: Take a drink
Every time Favre flings a completely inexplicable interception: Take a drink
Every time Favre does that and Theismann covers for him: Take a drink
Every time somebody mentions Terrell Owens:
And his suicide attempt: Take a drink
And his impact on the Eagles: Take a sip (pace yourself)
And you ask yourself why they’re talking about a guy who has nothing to do with the game: Take a sip (Again, pacing)
Every time an announcer mentions how vicious Eagle fans are: Take a drink
If said fans give the announcer a well-deserved cockpunch: Chug the bottle
Every time somebody mentions cheesestakes, cheeseheads or if the camera man finds the lone, marginally attractive female Green Bay fan in the stadium: Take a drink
Every time somebody mentions Brett Favre in relation to a tragedy befalling his family, his pet ferret or his favorite tractor up to and including: death, dismemberment, VD, bad haircut, psorisis or heartbreak associated with same: Drink enough to dull the pain
Every time somebody mentions Donovan McNabb’s injury: Drink three fingers of rotgut
Take one drink for every player Kornheiser claims to have on his fantasy team
Take one drink for every minute the utterly useless celebrity spends spouting inanities in the booth
If Theismann gets so angry about Albert Haynesworth his head actually explodes: Take a Lithium and lay down in a dark room
And if, after a sack, somebody says, “He is all over the QB like Mark Foley on teenage boys.” Chug heartily
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 7:59 pm
I just want to state for the record how proud I am of my hometown for chanting “Berman sucks!” during Monday Night Countdown tonight. Now, if they could just get a “You’re with me leather” chant going, I could truly die happy.
:: Murr — 10/2/2006 @ 8:00 pm
Tom Jackson: I don’t know that any quarterback has ever had as much fun playing football as Brett Favre…
Shall we keep a running tally?
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 8:05 pm
can we put the “jacked up” thread to rest yet?
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 8:07 pm
err. feature. oo they’re keeping one hit till halftime. the suspense is killing me.
Great job on the “berman sucks” chant btw.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 8:08 pm
I think Jacked Up is a little old hat.
And I think it’s really stupid if you put a guy on Jacked Up when he gave up a touchdown.
The object of the game is to not allow the team across from you to cross the goal line.
Not make Jacked Up.
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 8:08 pm
Brett Favre has the twinkle in his eye.
What would you get if you combined Tom Brady’s body language and Brett Favres twinkle?
God.
Thats what.
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 8:16 pm
[13]
A Zwinky???
:: Diane — 10/2/2006 @ 8:17 pm
Anyone know how on IRC to connect to the FO room? The server isn’t registering when I try.
:: Crushinator — 10/2/2006 @ 8:31 pm
I thought that swordfighting thing was a Gatorade commercial at first.
:: oljb — 10/2/2006 @ 8:32 pm
So what was the deal with that Charlie Pena kid? I just caught the end where he was coach for a day.
Also, what’s the deal with Ed Werder and Sal Palaontonio? They’re the only guys who I’ve never seen do anything else other than stay in their respective cities and talk about the football team. Do they have other jobs? Are there Ed Werders for every city?
The samurai intro was absolutely horrible. Just bad. Bad. Bad.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 8:32 pm
17-
Make a wish foundation I think.
:: oljb — 10/2/2006 @ 8:36 pm
Kornheiser, that’s not a joke. You can’t fool me. “I don’t know Aaron Rodgers from Mr. Rogers.” Really? Then I guess you’re an idiot because one guy’s dead (and served in the armed forces but was not, as legend would have it, a sniper in Vietnam) and the other plays for the Packers.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 8:36 pm
First time I’ve seen the MNF intro. I’m probably late to the party here, but… wow, is it ever bad.
:: DavidH — 10/2/2006 @ 8:38 pm
Mr. Kornheiser,
what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 8:39 pm
So what’s the explanation on why Koren Robinson can play when he violated his parole?
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 8:42 pm
He has sickle-cell anemia… I don’t think it was make-a-wish, I think I’ve seen the “coach for a day” thing before. I didn’t know it was for kids with health problems though.
PS. Mark “The Biscuit” Tauscher. That’s a pretty sweet nickname.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 8:42 pm
Odell Thurman got a DUI after his 4 game penalty and they already suspended him for a year, but Koren Robinson is still there. Dunno. And his DUI wasn’t a garden variety an ounce over the limit variety either.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 8:45 pm
So how long before the coaches just allow this to degenerate into Hawaii v. Texas Tech? I mean really, why even run with these scrubs?
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 8:47 pm
Tony Kornheiser Fantasy Reference, the running tally: 1
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 8:47 pm
Yeah, you can’t throw him down like that.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 8:53 pm
What are you looking at Joe? He got one in? The first foot was easily out.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 8:55 pm
Wow.
I actually thought Tony was eloquent — overblown, but eloquent — in his open. Enough so for me to transcribe it on my blog, if only to show how Theismann responded:
Tony: “He wants to be out there slinging it, trying to make something big happen, raging against the dyling of the light. Good for him, good for us.”
Joe: “And glad that we could be here.”
What a moron.
:: pr9000 — 10/2/2006 @ 8:56 pm
All together now: THAT WAS A REVERSE, YA’ MAROON.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:01 pm
Fumble!
Philadelphia seems out of sorts somehow.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 9:06 pm
I dunno, McNabb definitely started running left, and as has been discussed, that might constitute a double-reverse.
Regardless, way to completely squander the drive, Buckhalter.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 9:06 pm
Yeah, they do. Cripes, either cover or get pressure but you have to pick one.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:09 pm
I know it’s early, but I’m finding the announcers to be actually kind of interesting so far. Mostly it’s Theisman, with the missed handoff analysis and the bits about Favre’s quick release. He’s been concise and reasonably insightful
He did do one thing that is certainly not exclusively a Theisman-ism, but irritates me immensely: he used “rookie” to mean “crappy.” People say this all the time and 99% of the time it’s just grating in its ignorance. Getting rid of the ball quickly is espeically important when you have BAD guards, regardless of their experience level. Being rookies has nothing to do with that.
Whoa, they did NOT just take one of Theisman’s silly analogies and make it into a matter-of-fact graphic…
:: Pat F. — 10/2/2006 @ 9:17 pm
They did NOT just break out the fastballometer, did they?
:: Towwb — 10/2/2006 @ 9:17 pm
Mike Tirico: So Steve, how did you pull out the big come from behind win yesterday.
Steve Mcnair: Marty Ball.
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 9:27 pm
Please stop Greg Jennings at all costs. 31 more yards or a touchdown and I lose.
:: Richie — 10/2/2006 @ 9:29 pm
That’s right. They’re interviewing Steve McNair ABOUT BRETT FAVRE. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH. How about asking McNair about THE RAVENS???
:: Aaron Schatz — 10/2/2006 @ 9:31 pm
PUT IN DUCE STALEY!!!!!
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 9:33 pm
Wow. That’s twice. Would you call that being Gored?
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 9:33 pm
Wave goodbye to C.Buck. My money says he’s on the waiver wire tomorrow.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:34 pm
Buckhalter is making a strong case for the KCW award. Two fumbles inside the 5…
:: calig23 — 10/2/2006 @ 9:34 pm
BTW, I don’t think anyone’s watching this game. At this rate we’ll be lucky to hit 150 posts.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 9:34 pm
15: Our IRC server keeps not letting anyone connect. I propose we change to a different server.
How about Rizon?
:: Vash — 10/2/2006 @ 9:35 pm
Nice comment by the graphics guy there.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 9:36 pm
I liked the graphic ESPN just showed.
It said “Philadelphia Eagles” and then underneath it said: “AAAAAAARGGGGGGGG”
Disgruntled Eagles fan in the trunk?
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 9:37 pm
Can we stop trying to establish the run now?
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 9:37 pm
In the truck even.
:: Adam Gretz — 10/2/2006 @ 9:37 pm
Who’s happier right now, McNabb that he scored or Buckhalter that he didn’t get the ball?
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:40 pm
Poor Stevie’s been stuck on hold for the last five minutes.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 9:40 pm
We just found out Theesman’s word of the day, plethora. I forgot about those from Sunday night. Every so often he breaks out a five dollar word and sounds so proud of himself.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 9:40 pm
What the hell? The Eagles are missing tackles, the pass rush has disappeared and if Hood and Sheppard don’t get healthy soon this team is doomed.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:45 pm
Joe Thiesmann is El Guapo?
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:46 pm
how often does a run by a mediocre back work on third and long?
:: carter — 10/2/2006 @ 9:46 pm
52: They’ve kept them out of the endzone so far, but I agree, the defense seems very shaky. I think the offense still looks good though, although it’s great with Westbrook.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 9:47 pm
I mean, I can see agreeing on Rice being #1, but why not actually discuss how they differed about Payton v. Favre?
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 9:48 pm
Who seriously thinks Favre is a better QB than Walter Payton is a RB?
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 9:49 pm
Thiesmann just made me laugh “Just like one of your drives, straight a srtring and 55 yards.” I must be drunk.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 9:49 pm
who replaced Wynn with a decent returner, and can we keep him?
:: Crus — 10/2/2006 @ 9:49 pm
57: Joe Thiesmann.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 9:50 pm
“now you’re supposed to be able to bring your own balls” -JT
:: DavidH — 10/2/2006 @ 9:51 pm
How can you have a block in the back on a touchback?
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 9:52 pm
How can you have a block in the back on defense?
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 9:54 pm
57: It’s not that crazy an idea… I mean they’re both top ten all-time at their position, probably. It’s kind of hard to debate players at different positions, and I don’t think it’s as clear-cut as Rice v. _____.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 9:57 pm
Replacement irc server: cognet.catch22.org. Highly reliable, I can fix anything that needs fixing.
See you there.
irc://cognet.catch22.org/#fo
:: dbt — 10/2/2006 @ 9:58 pm
NFL.com says Illegal Block Above the Waist, which still makes no sense because it’s on Reggie Brown, the gunner, who would not be blocking anyone.
:: Vash — 10/2/2006 @ 9:59 pm
64: There are a half dozen or so guys who I’d list above Favre all time, but above Walter Payton is Jim Brown and maybe Barry Sanders.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 10:03 pm
I’m starting to have Kicker Envy.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 10:05 pm
damn, the Wynn replacement scheme is blown.
:: Crus — 10/2/2006 @ 10:07 pm
67: Eh, matter of opinion I suppose. In terms of PAR, Favre is #4 all time behind Marino, Montana, and Young.
For RBs, I would consider Sanders, Brown, and Smith to have been better than Payton. That’s 4 to 4, with obvious arguments available to push either one further down. I’m not saying necessarily that Payton is worse, but I think it’s very close.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 10:07 pm
You realize in that little “history of McNabb” collage Kornheiser just narrated, there was a picture of Brett Favre in there at the end for absolutely no reason?
:: Basilicus — 10/2/2006 @ 10:07 pm
Weather has knocked out DirecTV and thus my ability to view the game. I’m not sure whether I should be annoyed or grateful. What’s bad it that that’s actually a legitimate question.
:: NewsToTom — 10/2/2006 @ 10:08 pm
B (#68 )–
Think the Patriots should have traded Branch and Gostkowski, for Rayner and a roll of athletic tape?
:: Starshatterer — 10/2/2006 @ 10:10 pm
This is goddamn ridiculous.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 10:14 pm
Wow, icing the kicker! I haven’t seen that in a while, I feel like.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 10:15 pm
The Packers apparently have a high-motor defense… but do they have deceptive speed?
:: Vash — 10/2/2006 @ 10:15 pm
73: The Packers can keep the athletic tape.
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 10:16 pm
That was, um, special. Just when I thought the game couldn’t showcase more incompetence.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 10:16 pm
That fake might have been nice…. if there was more than 1 second left on the clock…
:: calig23 — 10/2/2006 @ 10:17 pm
I, for one, am impressed with the Eagles continued ingenuity in how not to run a hurry-up offense.
:: Paralis — 10/2/2006 @ 10:17 pm
79: Maybe if they hadn’t wasted 50 seconds, you mean?
:: B — 10/2/2006 @ 10:18 pm
I will take two things from this first half: The Eagles offense has largely looked like crap, yet they’re only down by two and the Eagle defense has largely looked like crap, yet they’ve only allowed three field goals. That said, if they lose this pack of scrubs I’m going to spend my Sundays antiquing for the rest of the season.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 10:20 pm
71:
While I’m sure the Favre love played a role in that pic, there’s actually a reason. See my name.
:: DavidH — 10/2/2006 @ 10:23 pm
Yeah, I was really banking on a shootout here, given that I was starting both McNabb and Favre in my fantasy league- and I’m currently down by 40+ points.
That plan isn’t going well so far.
:: calig23 — 10/2/2006 @ 10:23 pm
Its actually a cunning plan by Andy Reid who knows that the Eagles can’t defend a big lead in the second half (and 1 point vs GB might be a big lead at this point) so chooses to throw the points away and see what the D does now.
:: Crus — 10/2/2006 @ 10:25 pm
84:
I was down 20 with Akers and Westbrook to go. I thought I was gonna be fine…
:: DavidH — 10/2/2006 @ 10:26 pm
I was kinda hoping the Eagles defense could eat Favre alive. Then I heard they were missing DBs and my hopes were dashed.
However, in another league, I had a nice lead but my opponent had Westbrook, McNabb and Brown going. Westbrook’s injury might be enough to save me there.
:: Rocco — 10/2/2006 @ 10:27 pm
I was down by 22 with Driver to go. Now, 30 minutes of game later, I’m down 18.
Could anyone tell what they were chanting at half time (with Berman mysteriously gone)?
:: Zac — 10/2/2006 @ 10:31 pm
Ugh. Ryan moats fell down on his own behind line of scrimmage. But at least he didn’t fumble.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 10:33 pm
“You can’t push him to the ground with two hands. It doesn’t count.”
Seriously, Theismann. Do you sometimes forget that you’ve ever played football before?
:: Paralis — 10/2/2006 @ 10:34 pm
What the hell was that at the end of the half by the Eagles? Two bad sacks taken by McNabb, and then a ridiculous fake field goal?
Oh, and if Barry Sanders was better than Walter Payton, then why was Sanders frequently removed for goal line plays? Sanders was a great runner, but that’s all he was - he wasn’t a particularly good receiver, he didn’t block, and he couldn’t get tough yards. The only RB who arguably could be considered better than Sweetness was Jim Brown.
:: Marko — 10/2/2006 @ 10:35 pm
Man, Reggie Brown is like 1/10 here. He’s killing them.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 10:35 pm
Why is it, when the Eagles run inside, I see the RB getting tackled by the entire middle of the defense and a bunch of O-linemen standing behind the pile?
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 10:39 pm
Wait, shouldn’t this have been the score at the beginning of the 2nd half in last night’s Bears-Seattle game?
The times they are a-changing.
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 10:40 pm
83:
Thanks. Kornheiser didn’t reference that in his narration, though, or I didn’t hear it. Either one is possible.
:: Basilicus — 10/2/2006 @ 10:41 pm
Jim Brown wasn’t arguably better, he WAS better. I also am not sure why Smith isn’t even mentioned by anybody else.
As for Sanders, it’s funny how despite the lack of goal-line carries, he still has more touchdowns per game than Payton. Payton was a moderately better receiver, but I don’t think the running is very close.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 10:45 pm
“Have the cheeseheads tried the cheesesteaks?”
My god, my head is going to explode.
:: RIch Conley — 10/2/2006 @ 10:46 pm
Somewhere, “Harris” is very, very drunk by now.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 10:47 pm
Easily a catch, I think, on this challenge. You saw move the football to a more comfortable position after catching it.
:: Zac — 10/2/2006 @ 10:48 pm
This challenge will not succeed. The first guy hit the ball, causing him to move it to the other side, but he had it in control until the second hit.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 10:48 pm
I wish.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 10:51 pm
OK, now you’re pushing it a bit with the long field goals.
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 10:53 pm
Well it’s about damn time!
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 10:55 pm
Still, even with that miss, I think Indianapolis would have been better off with just Rayner for $230K last year than they were with Rayner and Vanerjagt for a combined $2 million.
:: Zac — 10/2/2006 @ 10:57 pm
As the game slips away I blame the coaching staff.
Bob Sanders calling blitzes on third and long and predictably McNabb gallops for first downs both times.
Then McCarthy with the low percentage field goal try. Nothing wrong playing field position in a one point game.
Now GB is down 8 on the road and when Favre forces one everyone will pile on that “Favre lost the game”.
Which, of course, is utter BS.
Geez…..
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 10:59 pm
I’ll say it again: It’s about damn time!
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:00 pm
This is the beginning of the game we all expected.
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 11:00 pm
Thanks Morency.
C’mon guys, let’s see the posts.
“Favre does it again”
“Typical Favre”
“He’s Favretastic”
Not that the running back let one bounce off his hands or anything. It’s GOT to be Favre’s fault.
He’s in on the global warming thing to do. It’s well known……
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:02 pm
Well, to be fair, the Eagles gave the ball away twice as well, and both of those were in the red zone. It’s not like Morency’s made the only mistakes.
:: Zac — 10/2/2006 @ 11:04 pm
You can get pass interference 100% of the time. - Joe Theisman.
What do we call the Robo player who can draw PI every play?
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 11:05 pm
Badger, I think they’ll have some room to pin this on Carroll too.
Man, how can you let Greg Lewis destroy you?
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:05 pm
No, Theismann. This game IS over.
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 11:05 pm
One more for the money: It’s about damn time!
:: Crus — 10/2/2006 @ 11:06 pm
Nobody said anything about the pick… you can chill out. It’s not all Favre’s fault, many players have had bad games.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:06 pm
Are they really trying to pin this ALL on Donald Driver?
:: Dagagad — 10/2/2006 @ 11:08 pm
Harris:
I was being sarcastic. Favre has played under control tonight.
If Bubba Franks and Donald Driver catch some more balls this game is still a GAME. That and if Bob Sanders doesn’t play Russian roulette with McNabb TWICE.
But I know what Tanier and Farrar and all the wanna be comedians will do with this game. Favre will likely now have to take some chances, will get intercepted, and will be trotted out as a punchline.
Completely unfair. But now par for the course…….
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:08 pm
I’m not a Packer fan, but even I wish I could believe Favre could pull this game out.
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 11:10 pm
115: I found that pretty shocking too… “it all started when Driver dropped that pass.” I mean…. really? One drop caused a turnover and two touchdowns?
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:10 pm
That (5 yd penalty w/ 1st down) was as big as any pass Brett Favre could have completed. Bigger than a touchdown?
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 11:12 pm
Have faith, Eagle fans!
They need to build a big lead going into the fourth quarter, so that they can blow it again.
;)
:: Starshatterer — 10/2/2006 @ 11:13 pm
Kornheiser, you must be prescient. Then again, you don’t need to be Nostradamus to predict that Favre is going to throw an INT. Thank God that shut Theisman up for a minute.
:: Tally — 10/2/2006 @ 11:14 pm
Says all of Wisconsin: “Damn you, Donald Driver! Damn you all to hell!”
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:15 pm
That pick was all Favre. Joes - “that was just a bad throw”. No, it pretty much went right where he intended it to, he just didn’t see the defender. To his credit, Joe continued with “bad read, bad decision”. Yes, it was those two…
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 11:15 pm
See, now if someone wants to point fingers at number 4 you have cause. So revel in the moment. Roll around like a hog in slop. Oh the joy in seeing Favre make a mistake. Yes, yes, yes.
I’m glad some of you now have your evenings made complete.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:15 pm
This Favre-frustration moment is brought to you by Toyota……
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 11:17 pm
123 - the thrill of that wore off last year.
:: andrew — 10/2/2006 @ 11:17 pm
Dawg, I just enjoy seeing the Eagles make plays, but if you’re going to be a prick about it . . .
Man, that interception was so good, I just want to pull my pants down and sit in it.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:19 pm
Anybody else want to punch out that Eagles fan with the red X over Owens’ jersey? Not only did he look like a total douche - the presence of the jersey (with godawful black trim) means he bought one and thought Owens was a great guy!
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 11:21 pm
I’m more upset that he stood up on national TV with his jersey tucked in. That’s just shameful.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:23 pm
You know, what bugs me about the media complaining about the media circus surrounding Terrell Owens is that they could actually do something about it by, you know, NOT TALKING ABOUT TERRELL OWENS.
Well, that and the fact that they act like the hospital thing was a publicity stunt.
“T.O. week has now officially begun.” *Yeah*…
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:24 pm
And my lead is now 3 points. Hey Andy, can you pull McNabb? Pretty please?
:: Rocco — 10/2/2006 @ 11:24 pm
So any Packer fans around here to help explain how Carroll stays on the roster? Will he be cut the first moment that Blackmon is deemed healthy?
In barely over a quarter he has personally been exploited for what, 80 yards? More?
No Favre frustration here. He’s putting forth an effort. More then most of the Pack can say right now…..
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:25 pm
without a doubt, my favorite football phrase of all time is, has always been, and will always be: “The Goaline extends around the world, infinitely” and it’s various incarnations thereof.
this, of course, was all made possible by JT suggesting mcnabb was OOB and the ball never crossed the plane, until reminded of the above rule.
:: michael — 10/2/2006 @ 11:26 pm
As an Eagles fan I must say it is refreshing that it isn’t our CBs that are top of the list of villains right now.
Unfortunately I get the feeling I should savour the moment as it may not happen again in the next few weeks.
:: Crus — 10/2/2006 @ 11:27 pm
I don’t think anybody cares that Favre isn’t very good anymore. We got rid of all the bad announcer mojo last year and we can be completely ambivalent about him.
Although, some Bears fans I know were apopleptic over the continued references to Favre last night. Personally, I didn’t care because I had seen the comparison often enough before but it sure got some people riled.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 11:28 pm
“The goal line extends infinitely.”
“All the way to Pluto.”
Er…
BTW, is it just me or was McNabb out of bounds BEFORE he touched the pylon?
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:29 pm
Uh oh, if you know anyone playing the drinking game posted at the top - please contact them immediately and be prepared to call for emergencey help. Alcohol poisoning is a distinct possibility right now.
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 11:30 pm
we’re just two incomplete passes from 4th & 26…
:: Paralis — 10/2/2006 @ 11:30 pm
When this game is finally in the books I hope the coaching staff looks hard in the mirror and admits its culpability. Are the Packers outclassed in talent? Absolutely. But if Sanders doesn’t get stupid on the first drive of the second half the Eagles LIKELY don’t convert multiple third and longs and the defense doesn’t get totally GASSED.
Follow that up by giving the Philly offense the ball back at midfield after an ill-advised field goal attempt was just icing on the proverbial cake.
Philly is the better team by a wide margin. But GB didn’t have to HAND them multiple opportunities to demonstrate that fact.
Cripes…..
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:30 pm
4th an 26! Go for the revenge!
:: mactbone — 10/2/2006 @ 11:31 pm
Go for it!
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:31 pm
Did people settle on a stable IRC server? Because there’s a big-ol server farm at freenode that no FootballOutsiders audience is going to overload:
irc.freenode.com
#footballoutsiders
I grabbed the room just in case people are interested in keeping it open.
:: Shannon — 10/2/2006 @ 11:32 pm
#136, i rewound to check, he took a leaping step, and hooked his inside (left leg) inside the pylon - his foot *landed* out of bounds, but whilst in the air, the ball crossed the plane.
:: michael — 10/2/2006 @ 11:32 pm
#143,
Thanks for looking it up.
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:37 pm
mactbone:
Favre isn’t any good? Do you mean he’s average or bad?
Because this is where I am puzzled. Through 3 plus games Favre has played an above average QB. Not great. But when you consider the context pretty ok.
So why is it accepted wisdom here to just dismiss him as a bad QB?
Again, I KNOW EVERYONE IS TIRED OF THE MEDIA’S MAN-CRUSH. I get that. Understood.
But when you take a step back can you really say the guy is a bad QB?
If so, explain how you came to that conclusion. Seriously.
Because as I watch this season unfold I put more and more of the 2005 ugliness on Sherman with Favre as a complete tool.
Favre is not a bright guy. He needs to be coached. If coached properly I believe he can help a team win.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:37 pm
Why is Favre still in the game?
When Chicago was up 26-0 Favre was still in there.
I don’t get it. Rodgers should be playing. There isn’t a chance in H*LL the Pack comes back on this team.
Just dumb….
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:40 pm
Maybe they’re hoping he’ll get injured and they can start Rogers.
:: Shannon — 10/2/2006 @ 11:42 pm
there you go
:: carter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:43 pm
147: Devious, but smart.
….wow, and as you speak, there he goes to the sidelines.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:43 pm
” that leads you to talk about Brett Favre”.
Don’t know why but that made me laugh.
:: Dagagad — 10/2/2006 @ 11:43 pm
Didn’t Favre later admit he shouldn’t have played with that thumb and his performance probably had a hand in getting Ray Rhodes fired?
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:44 pm
Shannon:
If McCarthy wants him out of there he should have the you know whats to do it straight up.
And it was McCarthy who tracked Favre down in MS to ask him to come back this season.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:44 pm
anybody else notice that GB’s recievers make much better defensive backs than their defensive backs?
They certainly have more passes defended.
:: RIch Conley — 10/2/2006 @ 11:46 pm
Harris:
Favre played because Rhodes begged him to play. And Rhodes was fired because the defense was a complete mess and the clubhouse was in total chaos.
(Favre’s hand has never been the same since that thumb injury. You have likely witnessed the ball just falling out of his hand at times. That’s because he cannot squeeze the football like he could previously.)
Favre was nowhere NEAR the reason Ray Rhodes was dismissed. Emmett Thomas had a LOT More to do with it then Favre.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:47 pm
woah there buddy… out here in the east, we call that a ‘joke’.
In bad taste, but a joke.
:: Shannon — 10/2/2006 @ 11:47 pm
152: …for the love of god why? Did he think he had a playoff contender?
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:47 pm
They’re bringing Rogers in to evaluate his hand-offs to RBs.
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:48 pm
They’re bringing Rogers in to evaluate his hand-offs to RBs.
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:48 pm
Peter:
You would have to ask McCarthy.
While I do believe Favre can be a positive contributor at QB I think it would be best if the organization moved on.
But nobody asked for my input….
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:49 pm
He tracked him down b/c he needed to get his mixtapes back.
:: Shannon — 10/2/2006 @ 11:53 pm
#153: I was thinking the same thing.
:: S1 — 10/2/2006 @ 11:54 pm
Omar Gaither is a beast.
:: Harris — 10/2/2006 @ 11:56 pm
Hm, a nice insult-to-injury goalline stand from the backups. Very nice work.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:56 pm
Ouch. Morency denied his 100 yard game AND the TD. That’s just….disheartening.
:: Bencoder — 10/2/2006 @ 11:57 pm
So I guess Favre delegated the post-game handshakes to Rodgers? Nice of him to give the rookie some reps.
:: Peter — 10/2/2006 @ 11:58 pm
“donovan, what’s your over/under on when you get your first question about TO?”
Uh… kinda right then, i think, when you just asked that question.
:: michael — 10/3/2006 @ 12:05 am
Well, this is the first Monday Night Football game I’ve actually watched this year. Hopefully they’ll only be one more (I don’t know who’s covering the Christmas game), but even that’s too much.
That coverage is just mind-numbingly awful. Not only did they rarely, if ever, pay attention to the actual plays on the field, they frequently got players names wrong, never even paid attention when players got hurt, frequently talked over plays - even when the score was close. Then, of course, they have McNair on during the game, and spend all of halftime… doing nothing?
This is just too awful to continue. The game was almost unwatchable, solely due to the poor coverage and announcing.
I’m actually being serious here: can we start a fan petition? Maybe linked on FO to get some attention to it? I’d actually be willing to watch the game again to get specific things to complain about.
Maybe it wouldn’t do anything. Who knows. But I think, as fans, we need to try.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 12:10 am
#46: You have a screen capture of that anywhere?
:: NF — 10/3/2006 @ 12:19 am
Same with me, Pat, and while I did like Tirico okay (maybe it was just in comparison with the other two), Kornheiser and Theismann were the worst color combo I’ve ever heard - although I never did sit through an entire game with the Stooges. They made terrible calls, they barely even bothered to correct themselves when they got obvious facts - names, down and distance, injured players - wrong, and I think I heard less Favre-worship from Madden last night. Not sure on that last one, though. Oh, and also the fact that of the four people they talked about most, only two played in the game. Oy.
I did watch the Raiders/Chargers game, though, and that just about spoiled me. We need to get Vermeil and Jaws in the booth again, somehow. What happened to the fan petitions from last month?
:: David — 10/3/2006 @ 12:24 am
Through 3 plus games Favre has played an above average QB. Not great. But when you consider the context pretty ok.
I don’t really agree. Favre moved the ball down the field on the first few drives, and he looked efficient.
There’s one problem with those kind of drives - they make a quarterback look good. They also don’t last, because it doesn’t take long for the defense to see what you’re doing. After the first field goal drive of the Packers, it was clear that Favre’s “good day” wasn’t going to last much longer - by then, the Eagles linebackers and safeties had started recognizing the short patterns and were jumping them. Philly ended up with 20 passes defended. That’s a ridiculous number - and it means that Favre was telegraphing his throws and throwing into coverage.
For comparison, Green Bay had 8 passes defended. In the previous games, Philly had 3, 6, and 6 passes defended. Philly more than equalled the number of passes defended in one game.
It’s not all about throws, and accuracy. Favre’s doing something that’s giving away his throws, or he’s making bad decisions. He’s not a good quarterback anymore.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 12:25 am
Tirico? Tirico was plenty bad. How often did you hear what down it was? Or what was going on? Or if a player was injured? It’s the play-by-play guy’s job to interrupt babbling color commentary guys, or interviewees (”One second, Steve, as we check on Charles Woodson…”) to make sure that the game was going on. How many times did you hear an official talk about a penalty that they hadn’t even mentioned yet? That’s Tirico’s fault.
The commentary guys were beyond awful, of course. Talking about crap like “love of the game”, and “drive and determination” and “rage against the dying of the light” rather than “see, this guy just blows right through the line of scrimmage and nails the football with his head, forcing the fumble.” No one even mentioned the fact that after the first drive, the linebackers and DBs were starting to jump the short routes.
But Tirico really did make the game unwatchable, since he wasn’t even trying to keep people informed about the game itself. Instead we were left listening to the babbling of Theismann and Kornheiser.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 12:30 am
Pat:
Help me out here. Favre has been hammered for taking risks. The coaching staff has gone to great lengths to encourage him to accept what is present and live to fight another day.
So he’s playing the risk management game as he has been instructed.
And yes, Philly recognized what was happening and adjusted quickly. But other then Drive/Jennings who on GB gets any separation as a receiver?
Bubba Franks? He is notoriously slow. David Martin isn’t faster then any of the Eagle linebackers. Robert Ferguson and Koren Robinson can get open against zones every so often but otherwise are obvious backups for a reason.
I do want to understand. Is it the belief that with this talent another quarterback could have pushed the ball down the field against the Eagles?
And as a reminder, Donald Driver and Bubba Franks did have multiple drops. Not that THOSE were the MAIN reason for the loss as Joe T. would have folks believe.
I want to know what I am missing.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/3/2006 @ 12:37 am
Haha that meaningless goal line stand at the end of the game won me my fantasy game by 1 (Eagles D).
I like Kornheiser a lot in the booth. He makes me laugh sometimes without talking too much. I think Theisman is the single worst announcer out there right now. I’d like to see Tirico, Tony K, and a good analyst.. maybe an ex-QB from Philly?
Then Tony could ask real questions and get real, non-contradictory answers.
:: BillWallace — 10/3/2006 @ 12:38 am
I phrased that question poorly. Clearly a GREAT QB could move the ball with this talent. But I am not arguing Favre is great. Just that he is ok by the standards of the NFL.
Because once upon a time Favre made Bill Schroeder a 1000 yard receiver. So yes, it can be done….
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/3/2006 @ 12:39 am
I was going to say “except that he didn’t do enough to shut the other two up,” but I didn’t think that was really fair; shutting up Joe Theismann is, from all accounts, a historic undertaking. Granted, he should at least try, but maybe he did that in the first three games and realized it was pointless. I don’t know. I do know that the other two annoyed me a hell of a lot more.
:: David — 10/3/2006 @ 1:08 am
I didn’t see the entire game, and I have only skimmed through this thread, but one play that I did see was McNabb’s first touchdown. When I saw one of the replays (looking through the end zone, not from a side view), it looked like his knee was down at about the 2 yard line before he dove over the goal line. Of course, the new stooges didn’t say anything about that. Did I see it correctly? Did one of the new stooges say anything about this later?
:: Marko — 10/3/2006 @ 2:57 am
What we tend to forget around here is that the NFL and the networks don’t care about us. We’re knowledgeable fans; they know we’re going to watch. The announcers are there to keep marginal fans, the people sitting next to the person typing furiously during the game, interested. Just like what they did to the Olympics, the Powers That Be have decided those people want irrelevant treacle. Stars get pimped, whether or not they’re doing anything worthwhile during the actual game being played, because the uneducated recognize names like Favre and Terrell Owens. Better to just mute the sound and listen to the radio broadcast. Boomer Esiason is as good on radio as he was bad on TV.
:: Harris — 10/3/2006 @ 7:32 am
172 - Koren Robinson has talent, no one should be denying that. He is definitely fast enough to create seperation. He’s been a #1 receiver on two different teams, and he’s still only 26. If you just went by talent, he’s easily the best receiver on the team. He may still be getting used to the offense (only his second game).
Then again, he didn’t seem to do much on kickoff returns either, which is one area where you’d think he’d be able to come in and contribute immediately.
:: andrew — 10/3/2006 @ 7:45 am
But other then Drive/Jennings who on GB gets any separation as a receiver?
You do realize the Eagles were playing with their absolute worst defensive backs, right? I mean, really, really bottom of the barrel guys. There were guys with the potential to get open, and there were guys getting open. It’s just that linebackers and safeties started jumping routes after the Packers ran the same play over and over.
The problem was either in the playcalling or with Favre himself. I’m not sure which to blame, to be honest.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 8:01 am
Okay, this has nothing to do with the game per se, but along the lines of the just incredibly, mind-numbingly awful team in the booth…they actually said on national TV that the statue on top of City Hall in Philadelphia is Ben Franklin. Call me a Philly homer, but everyone around here knows it’s William Penn (you know, the guy who founded the state of Pennsylvania and the city of Philadelphia?).
For the love of God, if you are going to talk about these things, at least get the facts right.
All right, rant over.
:: PhillyCWC — 10/3/2006 @ 9:25 am
#176: He was falling over the end zone when his knee hit: he might’ve been down at about the 1 or 2 foot line. It’s tough to tell. I’m surprised it wasn’t challenged.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 9:53 am
Pat (post 179):
We agree that it is tough to separate where Favre’s regression and McCarthy’s playcalling intersect.
What I do want to mention is that this is a different Favre in 2006. Any Philly fan would know that in previous visits Number 4 was a borderline spaz in his passing attempts. Last night he had the late interception which was clearly his fault and two other throws into tight coverage. Otherwise, he continued to show MUCH better judgement then in comparison to the 2005 “aw to heck with it” version.
That has to be to McCarthy’s credit.
One thing to keep in mind is that Green Bay is working VERY hard to protect the offensive line and in turn the QB. So some of the playcalling must be related to protection schemes that limit the number of receivers running routes.
McCarthy’s playbook is clearly constrained by that fact.
But you know what? Mike Sherman NEVER acknowledges that his offensive linemen stunk in 2005. So he kept calling plays that caused his QB to have guys in his face constantly which certainly inflated that ridiculous interception total.
I guess this lengthy post is meant to convey is that there are a LOT of interconnecting pieces that lead to a successful series of offensive plays. And Green Bay has some serious gaps.
The onus is on Ted Thompson to close those gaps. But based on initial returns he hasn’t done much of a job to push the team forward.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/3/2006 @ 10:23 am
180:
I noticed that too, what a bunch of morons ! My 8 year old knew it was William Penn, not Ben Franklin.
:: TBW — 10/3/2006 @ 10:27 am
Sweet Christ on a cracker. Those douchebags in the booth make me want to do unspeakable things to the neighborhood pets. Why in the name of all that is holy would I give a flying #@$* what Steve freaking McNair has to say about Brett Favre decision making process during his retirement considerations?!? And if I have to see the footage of the ‘99 draft one more time I think I’m going to lose it. [/rant]
So was I the only one watching this game going into halftime thinking that the game was already over? It should have been 21-9 at the half. Philly clearly wasn’t taking the game very seriously (exibit a: that rediculous fake FG at the end of the half). There isn’t a doubt in my mind that if this had been the Dallas game that Westbrook and maybe even Sheppard both would have been playing. It was like they knew they could run out the JV team and still take care of business.
:: Wanker79 — 10/3/2006 @ 10:37 am
I really am serious - I do think we should start a petition. I don’t think that Harris is right, and the network doesn’t care: ESPN caters to sports fans, not to casual fans - but even casual fans wouldn’t've had a chance at understanding that game last night the way that it was called.
If nothing else, I’d bet that a petition with enough signatures could possibly get them to crack down on making sure that Tirico et al. actually cover the game. Maybe.
Here’s a short list of major objections to the coverage last night:
1) Far too many crowd and sideline shots instead of actual replays of the game.
2) They didn’t show, nor even pay attention to major injuries on the field. You found out an entire half later that Stallworth was out after the first half. If you’re watching the game for fantasy purposes, that might have pissed you off. Ditto with Ferguson and Reno Mahe.
3) Talking over flags. No attempt to actually show what the penalties were, which would’ve been nice.
4) Doing an interview over plays. There’s no reason this couldn’t be moved to halftime.
The game really was unwatchable. I mean, I could even live with all of Theismann’s analysis being wrong (which it all was) if there was at least some game coverage going on.
I don’t know why they think casual fans could watch a game like that. My wife got completely bored extremely quickly because she couldn’t follow what was going on, and all of the references they were using were football-specific.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 10:53 am
Maybe if we bombard (and I don’t mean spam, but a massive emailing campaign) ESPN’s ombudsman, we the fans can make it painfully clear to ESPN that their coverage stinks and must change. They really need to stop the in-game interview. At least this week is a football player instead of a celebrity, but this would be a good place to start.
:: Rocco — 10/3/2006 @ 11:03 am
Rocco: Good point. It doesn’t have to be eliminated: just moved. Just move it to halftime. I can’t imagine we couldn’t convince them of that.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 11:10 am
As for coverage, I listen to my local radio announcers via either NFL.com or Sirius while watching the video. It isn’t synchronized the best, but it sure makes for a better experience.
GB fans are very lucky in that Wayne Larivee and Larry McCarren do a fine job. Older fans might remember McCarren. He was the GB center in the late 70’s and early 80’s. I think he even went to a couple of Pro Bowls.
Anyway, sorry the TV announcers still stink like they did with ABC.
:: BadgerT1000 — 10/3/2006 @ 11:13 am
It’s not just the announcers - if that was just it, I’d only be mildly pissed. But they missed a few plays, barely cut in on several others, and rarely showed replays of what actually happened. And then the McNair interview, of course, heavily obscured what was going on.
:: Pat — 10/3/2006 @ 11:17 am
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who was completely annoyed by the Steve McNair interview. I have nothing against Steve; I’m sure he’s a great guy and all, but do I really need to hear his opinions on Brett Favre instead of actually watching Brett play? I also noticed several times that they came back from commercials and TWO DOWNS would already have been played that the viewers missed. I have TiVo, which makes it difficult for me to sync up what’s on TV with the local play-by-play on the radio (love Merrill Reese, Voice of the Eagles, by the way), so I ended up just turning the volume down and watching the game in near silence.
Gah, I HATE ESPN’s coverage! At least the Fox announces are by and large watchable, most of the time.
:: PhillyCWC — 10/3/2006 @ 1:30 pm