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13 Nov 2006
Audibles at the Line: Week 10
Each Sunday, the FO staff sends around e-mails to each other, both during and after the games. It lets us share ideas for columns and comments, and get an idea of how teams that we can’t watch are playing. Be aware that the material in this roundtable might seem a bit disjointed and un-edited. It also might still show up later in the week in other columns, or in comments in PFP 2007. Games are chosen based on our own personal viewing preferences, and are going to reflect the teams we support and the cities where we live.
New York Jets 17 at New England Patriots 14
Bill Moore: Patriots had second-and-1-foot from the three-yard line. They have been running the ball up the middle quite well. Rather than picking up the first down (and maybe a touchdown) to give them three more chances at the end zone, they ran two plays designed for a touchdown (a sweep and a pass). Both lost yards and they kicked a field goal. With terrible field conditions due to rain, poor play calling in my opinion.
Another poor decision by the Patriots coaching staff ... Doug Gabriel blows by the defender with a flat pass, but the defender, Drew Coleman does a nice move by getting behind him and tipping the ball out at the Jets 25. However, he is stepping out of bounds when he tips the ball out. With little time to decide, Belichick chooses NOT to challenge it. Change of possession plays are the most important use of challenges. The Jets marched down the field and created a swing of at least 10 points.
Aaron Schatz: Belichick made the right call in not challenging that fumble. Sure, changes of possession are the most important calls to challenge, but not when they're obviously correct. It was very clear from the replay that Gabriel coughed it up before he stepped out. It's an example of the randomness of fumbles -- if that ball bounces one foot to the left, it's out of bounds and the Patriots keep it -- but you don't throw the red flag when you know you are 99.99% sure you are going to lose unless the play means the entire game late in the fourth quarter.
Bill Moore: Gabriel coughed it up before WHO stepped out of bounds? I ran the DVR as super slow speed. I think it was pretty obvious that Coleman was stepping out of bounds when he made contact with the ball.
Aaron Schatz: It's really hard to square this Jets offensive line with the one that couldn't get any running game going whatsoever in the early weeks of the season. On that long Jets drive that ended with the Kevan Barlow TD, Nick Mangold and Pete Kendall were getting outstanding forward push.
And why does Jim Nantz keep calling the third receiver from the Jets "Tim Duh-wight"?
Doug Farrar: That's what's known as having Phil Simms rub off on you.
Aaron Schatz: Junior Seau is not good in pass coverage. It seems like the Jets have completed a number of short passes with Seau just one step behind the receiver, desperately trying to get his hand in there.
Bill Barnwell: Roosevelt Colvin just sacked Chad Pennington and the refs blew the whistle IMMEDIATELY. Not after a second or two - Colvin still had his arms around Pennington and when the whistle blew, they both stopped and looked at the refs like something was wrong.
Ian Dembsky: Thee Jets are bringing tons of pressure, and the Pats simply haven't had time to react, especially because Brady can't move around well on the sloppy field. I'd like to see him do what he did against Oakland in the Tuck Rule game: Go shotgun, quick release passing game. Neutralize the pass rush with short completions, and less need for Brady to move around.
Aaron Schatz: I'm very depressed. The Pats played like crap today. Until those last two drives, it's like Brady forgot how to play in the elements. The Jets front seven was very, very good and the Pats were spooked by the pass rush all day long. Jerricho Cotchery is also very good and had a great game. Laveranues Coles actually didn't have such a great game.
Jason Beattie: You think you're depressed? I picked the Jets this week in my loser survivor pool. So long, $835!
Bill Moore: Did the Pats and the Jets switch uni's before the game? The Pats made errors and mistakes I would have expected the Jets to make. Like having to call a timeout after the two-minute warning of the first half. What was that? And the Pats defensive line couldn't stop the run (granted Richard Seymour was out later in the game with a mysterious injury) or get to Pennington. 110 yards from Barlow and Washington, combined? Ellis Hobbs had perfect position on Cotchery's touchdown, yet let Cotchery make the catch anyway.
On the other hand, the Jets made plays when it mattered, and got yards when they needed it. Other than one 50-yard run from Dillon, they held the Pats to 3.8 yards per attempt -- not great, but not enough that New England felt they could run all over them.
I think the Patriots coaching staff made judgment errors while the Jets staff made some interesting, effective calls like the Pennington pooch punt.
And I still think Drew Coleman was out of bounds when he forced Gabriel's fumble, and that was a key turning point of the game.
San Diego Chargers 49 at Cincinnati Bengals 41
Doug Farrar: Marty Schottenheimer got burned by his refusal to challenge in the first quarter on Cincinnati TE Tony Stewart's circus catch -- it didn't look like Stewart got both feet in, but Marty didn't even have his headset on. I'm assuming he didn't get a call to challenge from his coaches, and the play kept the Bengals going on their second touchdown drive of the first quarter.
On San Diego's subsequent drive, Marvin Lewis challenged a Keenan McCardell forceout which was reversed because McCardell didn't have possession. San Diego had to punt on the next play. On the next play after THAT, Palmer hit Ocho Cinco on a 51-yard TD bomb. Marvin was wearing his headset.
It's amazing how different San Diego's defense is without Shawne ("I can't find the bottle") Merriman in the lineup. They can bring no real consistent pressure, and Carson Palmer has shredded them to bits. The Chargers were giving up 269 yards per game -- total -- and Palmer has 282 yards passing at the half. San Diego's secondary, which FO has written about at some length, has been totally exposed. I have to give credit to Cincinnati's offensive line, which is playing well without Rich Braham at center and Levi Jones at left tackle.
Also, three different Johnsons (Jeremi, Rudi and Chad) scored touchdowns for the Bengals in the first quarter. I should probably stop right there.
Mike Tanier: Regarding the Chargers, I believe that Castillo is hurt this week, so that's another missing piece from their front seven. So basically, they need their Roid Warriors.
Doug Farrar: Well, just when you thought it was safe to come out of the locker room ... Cincinnati had a 28-7 lead at the half, including 21 in the first quarter, and the Chargers scored 21 in the third quarter. Philip Rivers is showing a very admirable ability to rebound from a rough start.
...and before I could even finish writing that, Chad Johnson ran by the entire right side of San Diego's defense for a 74-yard touchdown. You will not see that many consecutive blown assignments in one play for quite a while. Ocho Cinco must have used the "Invisible Paint" that always worked in the Looney Tunes cartoons.
Dierdorf is right -- this is a crazy AFL-style shootout. "Hadl with the bomb to Alworth!"
Bill Barnwell: I don't know which Bengal it was -- I think it was Rudi Johnson -- but Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson both owe him a beer. His blitz pickup on the second Johnson touchdown catch was a thing of beauty.
Doug Farrar: Shaun Phillips really abused fullback Jeremi Johnson on the Palmer sack/fumble to start the fourth quarter -- finally, someone on the San Diego defense made an important play. The Chargers recovered the ball at the Bengals 9, and Tomlinson needed only one play for his fourth rushing touchdown of the game. The last two of those four came within fifteen seconds of each other.
Aaron Schatz: After the Pats game ended, they switched us to Bengals-Chargers. Marlon McCree should be suspended for the rest of the year for the helmet-to-helmet hit he just put on Housh before the pass was even there.
Mike Tanier: You get to see the last seven minutes of Bengals-Chargers? I doubt you'll see more than four touchdowns.
Doug Farrar: FS Marlon McCree just went helmet-to-helmet on T.J. Houshmandzadeh a good full second before the ball arrived as Houshmandzadeh was running a crossing pattern. McCree very obviously left his feet and used his helmet as a weapon. If he doesn't get fined five digits at the very least, the Bengals have every right to be incensed. Enough of this "$5,000 fine for horse-collar tackles" crap -- not to mention other obvious personal fouls that can do great harm outside of the parameters of the game. The NFL really needs to send a message this time. Too bad he wasn't wearing the wrong shoes!
Baltimore Ravens 27 at Tennessee Titans 26
Bill Barnwell: Is my scoreboard messed up? Tennessee put 26 points on Baltimore in the first half??
Ryan Wilson: Somebody forgot to tell Travis Henry the Ravens' run defense is pretty good. He's running all over them in the first half. And when the Titans play-action/naked bootleg, Vince Young has been very accurate. Drew Bennett is wide open, usually with Samari Rolle supposedly in coverage.
Ned Macey: I like Jeff Fisher, but he made a cardinal sin at the end of the Baltimore game. Driving for the game-winning field goal, he has third-and-4 at the 25-yard line. They run the ball into the line, leaving a 40+ yard field goal. It gets blocked, and what probably would have been the biggest upset of the day does not happen.
Washington Redskins 3 at Philadelphia Eagles 27
Aaron Schatz: I just caught the replay of the Philadelphia touchdown where receiver Reggie Brown fumbled and Correll Buckhalter caught the fumble IN THE AIR to run 65 yards for the touchdown. Holy karmic payback, Batman.
Tim Gerheim: It doesn't really matter, but it wasn't a fumble (although it's getting counted as one). If that ball had hit the ground before Buckhalter picked it up, it would have been ruled incomplete, or the Redskins would have won the challenge. Brown was bobbling it until it came out, so it's even luckier, in a sense, that Buckhalter was inexplicably there to catch it. It was really good to see Buckhalter score though, after all his injuries and missed time.
Mike Tanier: I turned the game off at the two-minute warning, so if the Redskins came back and scored 28 unanswered points please don't tell me.
The Eagles played pretty well. The defense was very good, the special teams OK. The offense really had one great play and one lucky play in the first half, but did pretty well in the second half.
I cannot believe that the Redskins have gotten this bad. Mark Brunell is just embarrassing at this point. Let's look through the 900-page playbook:
- Brunell drops back, rolls left, directs traffic, throws a pass incomplete up the sidelines (at least three or four per game).
- The easily sniffed-out screen (at least three per game)
- The dump-off into a running back in the flat that the defense converges on for a one-yard gain (at least 5 per game).
In the fourth quarter, the Redskins went through one sequence when they threw two passes in the flat and lost 12 yards on the plays because the Eagles made quick tackles.
I thought at the start of the year that the Redskins had a playoff-caliber defense. That's not what I saw this week, even when McNabb was struggling in the first half. I saw a rain-assisted defense that was vulnerable to the big play and the RUN.
I am interested in reading the Washington newspapers tomorrow to see if the cheerleaders in the DC sports media have gotten out of their prostrate bow in front of Joe Gibbs and can actually criticize him. I am not curious about the Philly media's reaction: they'll say we were lucky to win on a fumble-pitch play and an interception return.
Green Bay Packers 23 at Minnesota Vikings 17
Doug Farrar: I know that we're obligated by federal law to talk of nothing but #4 when we discuss the Packers, but is one of the more underreported stories of the year what's going on with Green Bay's offensive line? Last year, they blew out their vet guards, Ahman Green got hurt, and Favre threw 29 picks just trying to get rid of the ball before he got killed. This year, they rank second in Adjusted Line Yards (30th last year) and second in Adjusted Sack Rate (3rd last year, but pay attention to the interception numbers). Green has four 100-yard performances in the first six games he's played, and Favre is on pace for 14 interceptions for the season. That's what you call a total reversal.
And if you're of the opinion that the 2006 Shaun Alexander is the 2005 Ahman Green ... well, there's some light at the end of the tunnel.
Buffalo Bills 16 at Indianapolis Colts 17 and Houston Texans 13 at Jacksonville Jaguars 10
Michael David Smith: Buffalo is using a really soft front, usually only keeping six in the box. I want someone to create a montage of Edgerrin James watching this while "Memories" plays in the background.
Ned Macey: Well, the Colts are in their typical close game with an inferior opponent. This one is close because of two plays, a 60+ yard fumble return by McGee and an 80+ yard kickoff return by McGee that led to a field goal.
The Bills defense is playing this right. Double both outside receivers. They have the "Ming of Beers" on Clark in the slot. As a result, everything is to Ben Utecht and the running backs. Sure the Colts have moved the ball all day, but if drives take 8-10 plays, mistakes can happen. Utecht was the one who fumbled.
Benefit number 1,000 of the no-huddle: Manning hit Wayne for a gorgeous third down conversion to the 5-yard line. Colts make no subs. Buffalo is in their "base" 4-2-5, and Addai plows through easily for the touchdown.
The Bills offensive play-calling is less impressive. We get it; the Colts have a bad run defense, but you have Anthony Thomas, and they have 8-10 people in the box.
By the way, David Garrard just wins, baby.
Michael David Smith: "Michael Vick is a good passer" is in close competition with "David Garrard just wins" for today's idiotic football announcer cliche award.
Also, I like how Dick Enberg and Randy Cross are going on and on about how smart Tony Dungy is because he doesn't care how big a player on his defense is, he just cares if he can play. Uh, guys, did you notice how the Colts' small defensive players are getting their butts kicked up and down the field every Sunday?
Mike Tanier: I want to say David Garrard just wins, too! Let's all say it and really tick some readers off. Mike Tice is an idiot and I see his fingerprints all over the Garrard decision.
Ned Macey: Rhodes fumbles, and the Bills are about to take the lead. No word on why Rhodes is getting the majority of the carries today. It's like they thought they would easily beat the Bills so let's give the veteran another chance.
...
Ned Macey: So much for taking the lead. The Bills leave Robert Royal one-on-one on Freeney on third down, and Freeney gets his first full sack of the season. Moved back, Lindell pushes the field goal wide right.
The Colts spent the entire game proving they were not the best team in football. At the same time, they are the first team in history to start back-to-back seasons 9-0. Maybe that's meaningless, but I think it's an impressive feat that bears some appreciation. Maybe VOA will prove me wrong, but my subjective impression is that the only team that has outplayed them was the Giants in Week 1, in large part because of the dropped interceptions. Jacksonville did for one half, but that game was pretty even. They are definitely not the team they were a year ago, but on a neutral field, the only team I would pick to beat them is San Diego. This all goes back to my statement of 5 weeks or so ago that there are no great teams this year.
Aaron Schatz: In Weeks 1-9 the Colts were actually outplayed twice, by the Giants and the Titans -- yes, that's before the huge opponent adjustments on the latter.
San Francisco 49ers 19 at Detroit Lions 13
Bill Barnwell:
A. Lee punt.
E. Drummond returned punt for 8 yards.
DET committed 10 yard penalty.
SF committed 26 yard penalty.
This is probably why none of us are watching this game.
Ian Dembsky: San Francisco shut down Minnesota last week, and now, thanks in large part to three fumbles, they've rammed the Lions' bandwagon off the highway. Are they getting better?
Kansas City Chiefs 10 at Miami Dolphins 13
Mike Tanier: As I write, Damon Huard is 12-of-30 for some miniscule yardage total and the Chiefs are being shut out. Are we done with the controversy? I mean, yes, he played well. Backups sometimes play well. And then they go back to the bench. Good work, Damon. Sit down. Now we can all talk about how great Joey Harrington is for a few weeks.
Michael David Smith: I disagree about Damon Huard. If his worst game of the season is one in which he throws 34 passes with no turnovers (so far), I wouldn't call that reason to bench him. Anyone want to place a friendly wager on who has a better DVOA, Green or Huard, at the end of the season?
Mike Tanier: We're not talking about benching Damon Huard. We are talking about benching Trent Green. The argument is "Huard hasn't done enough to deserve to keep playing," not "Huard shouldn't be benched after one bad game."
A quick look at Damon Huard's DVOA suggests that if Green returns as a starter next week he will have to move a mountain to catch up to Huard, who is sitting pretty at 47 percent. I never said he wasn't playing well. But even though the Chiefs opened up their playbook in recent weeks, they still aren't doing all the things they would do if Green were available.
So no bet on the season-wide DVOA, but I will bet that Huard has a negative DVOA from this point forward in the season, assuming he plays another game. And if that does happen and you take the bet, the loser must write the winner a long poem at the end of his column admitting that the other had a far superior knowledge of the game.
Michael David Smith: OK, the bet is on. I'm not sure what rhymes with Huard, but that'll be your problem.
Aaron Schatz: I know what rhymes with Huard. Former Lincoln Secretary of State R. Jay Seward.
Michael David Smith: You're thinking of former draft bust R. Jay Soward.
Aaron Schatz: Whoops! Yes, the sec of state under Lincoln was WILLIAM Seward, heh heh.
If Alaska is William Seward's folly, what was R. Jay Soward's folly?
Michael David Smith: I think Soward's folly was thinking he could coexist with Tom Coughlin.
Mike Tanier: You all are so worried about Seward that you haven't realized that MDS will have to try to rhyme my last name. And none of you even know how to pronounce it except Aaron!
Michael David Smith: Oh, that'll be the easy part:
I lost a bet with Mike Tanier
I must confess that he is manlier
And if that isn't how it's pronounced, well, that's why it's called poetic license.
Mike Tanier: MDS, I am glad you are brainstorming.
Ned Macey: I never bet on football, but I look at lines for Any Given Sunday, and I'm a firm proponent of the "If the line looks to good to be true bet the other way" system. Despite this, did anyone else see that the Dolphins were favored today? If I had any sort of betting account, I would have put down money on Kansas City, but as usual (last week's DEN-PIT being an exception) the bookies are right. Joey Harrington -- all he does in win football games.
Aaron Schatz: Just like David Garrard!
New Orleans Saints 31 at Pittsburgh Steelers 38
Aaron Schatz: The karmic payback cloud is floating over the entire state of Pennsylvania, because the Steelers got an actual fumble recovery on defense and now lead 14-0 after the Saints apparently forgot that Heath Miller is an eligible receiver.
Bill Barnwell: Hines Ward reacted to a failed Roethlisberger third down pass off his back foot in the red zone with utter disgust. The thing was, Ward had a guy between him and the first down marker, and Ward is smart enough to know that. That makes me think that Ward was Roethlisberger's hot read and/or his primary option on a blitz there, and that Roethlisberger is ignoring it to make a big play.
I was wrong about Sean Payton -- he knows what he's doing -- but he looks like a middle manager out there.
Aaron Schatz: Troy Polamalu went out in the middle of the first half with a mild concussion, and there's no doubt that the Steelers defense hasn't been the same since. Deshea Townsend is also out now.
I'm sure everybody tonight will see the highlights of the Reggie Bush reverse where he scored by flipping over defenders as he fell into the end zone. That was the kind of thing everybody expected to see from Bush on a regular basis, but I don't know how many highlight plays he's really had other than this one and the punt return. (The awesome YAC against Tennessee was in the preseason right?)
Michael David Smith: Yeah, that run against Tennessee was in the preseason. Despite that awesome leap into the end zone, I'm growing increasingly skeptical of whether Bush is ever going to be an every-down back in the NFL. I think his career is going to look a lot like Rocket Ismail's -- enough contribution that you can't call him a bad player, but never anything close to his spectacular college career.
Mike Tanier: This is clearly "I argue with MDS" week.
I agree that Bush has not made that great a contribution to the Saints this year, but it is way too early to write him off. The raw talent is so apparent; he just doesn't know what he's doing with the ball in his hands. For more on an overhyped rookie who looked like a complete mess by mid-Novemeber, check out Too Deep Zone this coming Friday.
Aaron Schatz: I'm not writing much about the Steelers-Saints game I'm watching, but honestly, this is the same Steelers team we've seen all year, except with better luck and more stability on special teams. They're dropping some passes, Willie Parker is much better running outside than inside (he's put up two 70+ yard carries), Roethlisberger mixes good decisions with stupid ones, the front seven is still very good, the secondary is shaky -- especially without Polamalu. As for the Saints, I don't think I've learned anything from them either except that Jason Craft is not as good as Fred Thomas. Marques Colston is unbelieveable, and we're all just scratching our heads wondering what the scouts missed (we missed it too, whatever it is), but we all knew that already as well.
Remember this, from the DVOA commentary last week?
FO's Adjusted Line Yards stats rank the Saints 29th stopping runs around left end or right end, but fourth stopping runs listed as going behind a guard or up the middle.
Willie Parker knows this, I think.
St. Louis Rams 22 at Seattle Seahawks 24
Doug Farrar: I really wonder about the Rams' defensive strategy on Seattle's first drive. Center Robbie Tobeck is out, and Chris Spencer isn't nearly as experienced with the line calls. St. Louis is allowing huge seams for Maurice Morris on the ground, and you'd think they'd account for the run a bit more.
This should also be an interesting battle between right tackles -- who between Tom Ashworth and Alex Barron will get flagged for the most false starts?
Ashworth was pathetic on the Leonard Little sack/fumble -- he was supposed to turn out to Little, and he went inside instead. Little got a free release, and Victor Adeyanju took the fumble back 89 yards for a touchdown. People don't talk about Sean Locklear (who Ashworth is replacing this week), and there's a reason why. He just does his job and blocks the right freakin' guy. Seattle put together a good drive that was wasted by two red zone penalties and a missed assignment.
St. Louis' run defense is horrid. Their interior defensive line is the rough equivalent of the San Diego secondary I watched this morning: "Oops -- I missed the assignment again!" They are accounting for the run, it turns out, but the overpursuit is laughable.
Seneca Wallace isn't going to be anyone's Damon Huard, but he looks very solid out there. Good touch, excellent mobility and a nice feel for only his third career start. He's very dangerous on the rollout, and you will see defenses reacting to that.
The Seahawks amassed 134 yards, nine first downs, and ate up nine minutes of clock before the Rams offense hit the field. And it's a 7-7 tie. I have a headache.
Mike Tanier: "Oops, I missed that Assignment Again" is my favorite Britney Spears song.
Doug Farrar: Whenever Seattle blitzes, Bulger just auto-checks to Steven Jackson in the flat. That's automatic. Jackson is on pace for 82 catches this season, and they're using him in other ways in the passing game, not just as a bailout. But Lofa Tatupu showed his reaction speed on a first quarter fake end-around to Isaac Bruce. The actual play was a swing pass right to Jackson, but Tatupu didn't pursue Bruce -- he just bulled Barron over and got Jackson for a loss. He's one of my favorite players for just that ability. It got him to the Pro Bowl as a rookie, and I wonder how that Defensive Rookie of the Year award is looking on Shawne Merriman's mantle right about now.
Michael David Smith: Bulger throws a fourth-down interception that serves the exact same purpose as a coffin-corner punt. It's one thing for Ken Hamlin, who picked off the pass, not to have the presence of mind to knock it down instead of intercept it. But what's with the announcers not bothering to notice that the interception was actually a good play for St. Louis?
Doug Farrar: I dunno, but J.C. Pearson sure does look a lot like Tiger Woods.
Tatupu is having his best game of the season. He was the only player to intercept a Marc Bulger pass all year (first SEA-STL game) until the end of that drive, and he almost did it again in the third quarter when he read a swing pass to Isaac Bruce and batted it in the air.
Ned Macey: Nice two-play combo by Richie Incognito. Jackson runs in the go-ahead TD, but people start pushing, and Incognito picks up the personal foul. On the two-point conversion, he picks up a hold. The ensuing kickoff (15 yards back) gets run to midfield, and now Josh Brown will have a very makeable game-winner.
Another KCW nomination would be Linehan. Rams driving, third-and-6, Bulger throws short of the first down to Curtis. Play ruled incomplete. Right before the field goal is snapped, Linehan challenges (Wilkins hit the meaningless FG). Winning the challenge, Linehan now has fourth-and-1 at about the 11. Having challenged, he has to go for it and calls a play for Klopfenstein in the end zone. They now look like they're going to lose by less than three points.
Bill Barnwell: I had a couple and their third wheel next to me at the bar and they were screaming at every little thing in the Seahawks game, just randomly yelling out Seahawks like they were in the stadium, actually cheering for that interception inside the five as if it were the greatest play a Seahawk has ever made. Just an utter mess. You ever go to or watch a game you have no rooting interest in and have people around you make want the team they're supporting to lose? We need a name for those people. Anti-fans?
Has there ever been an easier 80+ yard punt return in history than Nate Burleson's? He ran straight ahead the entire time and moved out of that line exactly once -- to deke out the punter.
Richie Incognito is the real-life embodiment of the fat guy from Varsity Blues.
Doug Farrar: The odd thing about the Seattle win wasn't the Josh Brown field goal to end it, to be sure -- Brown kicked the game-winner in St. Louis as well. But Nate Burleson's punt return touchdown was the Seahawks' first in three years, and the Incognito penalty which pushed the Jeff Wilkins kickoff back 15 yards is exactly the kind of boneheaded maneuver Seattle's normally moribund special teams unit would commit. Up here in South Alaska, we're not at all used to special teams winning ballgames.
The Seahawks also clawed their way to 6-3, and a two-game-plus-tiebreakers lead in their division, despite being without their starting quarterback, halfback, center, right guard, and slot receiver.
Denver Broncos 17 at Oakland Raiders 13
Mike Tanier: This was a heck of a game if you hate drives, offense, or football in general. After four possessions, the Broncos had 17 yards of offense and two turnovers. Luckily, they were playing the Raiders offense, and one 15-yard touchdown drive was about all they could muster.
The score was 13-7 forever. The Raiders weren't sitting on the lead; they were passing and passing some more. Of course, their passing game stinks, so they kept punting. The Broncos responded with another Plummer pick and some do-nothing drives. Meanwhile, I wrote some of these emails, fed the baby, played Justice League with my three-year old, checked the Cowboys-Cardinals score. Yawn.
Finally, the Broncos put together a nice little drive. Plummer tried to fumble the ball away, but a teammate jumped on it. Fourth-and-goal, they execute this beautiful play-action pass which will be on the highlight films. Actually, I think the hard count was the best thing about the play; a couple of Raiders defenders lost balance and had no forward momentum at the snap.
Anyway, the game was dull and awful, and I wish I had watched Saints-Steelers, or a replay of the Chargers game.
Dallas Cowboys 27 at Arizona Cardinals 10
Bill Barnwell: Edgerrin James doesn't look like his confidence has been shot. It looks like it's been [extremely graphic depiction of violence].
Chicago Bears 38 at New York Giants 20
Aaron Schatz: Am I wrong, or did the Giants depend almost entirely on a pass rush from the front four last year? This is the second game -- Atlanta being the other -- where I've noticed just a ton of cornerback blitzes, and they are working beautifully. (For all I know, the Giants have also done this in a number of other games this year that I just didn't happen to watch.)
"Hi, Brandon Jacobs? This is Steve Smith. When you finally give birth to that football, give me a ring, I can give you some wiping tips."
Mike Tanier: The Giants did a lot of zone blitzing last year. Most of the designs were to free up Strahan or Umenyiora, so they would blitz the gaps to try and tie up the guards and isolate the offensive tackles on Gappy or Osi, or blitz wide and stunt the two stars.
I heard that Tiki Barber was there for the conception and the first two trimesters. Jacobs is strictly a delivery room dad. Sorry, that's awful.
Doug Farrar: I guess Plax was right -- Chicago DBs just pick off what's thrown right at them. Like the stupid jump ball that Eli Manning couldn't even get over the head of Charles Tillman.
Mike Tanier: I usually wind up rooting against the out of town team whose "fan" at the bar feels the need to curse out the players he is supposedly rooting for every time they do something wrong. I usually assume that the dude is a gambler and I just want him to lose money. Mind you, I know guys who will put $500 on some random game, get hit with a 35-3 loss, then shrug their shoulders and try to make their money back on Monday Night. The dude in the corner screaming "F***n Rex Grossman you m****f****n a*****e", I guarantee, has about $25 riding on the game.
Aaron Schatz: How far back CAN Eli Manning run? 20 yards? 30? Did Aaron Brooks take over his body in some sort of "Freaky Friday" accident?
Ian Dembsky: Deep in the red zone, Eli had one of his patented overthrows to Burress, after which Feely missed a makeable field goal. Then on the next posession, when he should have thrown the ball high to Burress, he underthrew him for an easy Chicago interception.
Aaron Schatz: I feel like the Giants were really dominating the game for about a quarter and a half, and then it suddenly changed at the end of the first half, and now they've turned into the gang that couldn't shoot straight. It's eerily like today's Pats-Jets game.
Ian Dembsky: The officials just called a completely non-existent horse-collar tackle penalty on Chicago. I swear, the horse-collar penalty has been a total debacle since its inception. I've yet to see it called correctly.
Mike Tanier: When did Grossman get good again?
Ian Dembsky: Madden said it best when he said that this game is like a heavyweight fight. Both lines are battling to establish dominance, and it keeps going back and forth quarter-by-quarter. For the football purist, this has been a truly excellent game.
(Devin Hester runs back a missed field goal for a 108-yard touchdown.)
Al Bogdan: The short field goal attempt returned for a touchdown is easily my favorite play in all of football. Except, of course, when it's against the Giants. Glad I decided to stop working and start paying attention to this game.
Aaron Schatz: The Giants just fell asleep, and I am stunned, although not as stunned as they probably are. This is one of the great "fell asleep" plays ever, along with that one where the Broncos forgot to touch Marvin Harrison.
Ned Macey: How does the old missed FG return for a TD get scored in DVOA? The killer play on that drive was going for the whole first down on the third-and-forever. Why not just take the free 10 yards, get a makeable field goal and try and cut it to 1 point?
Aaron Schatz:DVOA treats that as just a missed FG. The rest of it is a "nonpredictive event." A totally awesome nonpredictive event.
Ned Macey:Now we'll see if Eli's 145 fourth-quarter QB rating is up for the task. No idea why he generally plays better later, but that pass 10 feet over the receiver's head on second down may mean this isn't his day. And as I write that, another overthrow for an interception.
Doug Farrar: At this point in time, I'm obligated to say that Eli Manning is really coming along.
Ian Dembsky: Wow, did Eli look completely horrible on that last series. Good for Bill though; his Catholic Match Girl Staredown Lock of the Week (Chicago +2) is looking safe.
Aaron Schatz: They showed Jay Feely sitting there with his head in his hands after the play -- I hope he doesn't feel that was his fault. That was NOT his fault. Dude, when you are short on the field goal, it's the responsibility of the 10 other big guys on your team to tackle the guy from Chicago.
Since they were talking about the "swirling winds of the Meadowlands," I should remind everyone of the Audibles from a couple weeks ago where I pointed out that the Meadowlands doesn't affect special teams any more than other cold-weather stadiums.
Al Bogdan: Prior to that, Feely had been the best Giant on special teams coverage all game. On at least two kickoffs he was the primary defender that brought down the ball carrier.
The more I think about it, if that play didn't happen against the Giants, it would be in the running for the best play I've ever seen, right behind the Marino fake spike/TD against the Jets. What a brilliant job by Hester faking out the entire Giants roster before he ran the ball back 108 yards.
Ian Dembsky: Not to be picky, but why didn't the Giants go for it on fourth-and-10, down 18 with 7 minutes to go? They were near midfield; no reason not to give it a shot there. You have to try.
Aaron Schatz: And Ian officially channels Gregg Easterbrook. Next, he'll be discussing carbon emissions in next year's SUVs.
Bill Barnwell: Begin Giants fan time.
Eli Manning is f*****g terrible. Every one of our readers who bitches about us saying he sucks is a Manning relative.
End Giants fan time.
There's also something very sad about Michaels associating "blogging" and "blathering" when the whole reason that a blogosphere exists and that people pay attention to it is the utter drivel coming out of the mainstream sports media. Ugh.
Bits 'n' Pieces
Bill Barnwell: Want to know what's worse than the "This Is Our Country" ad? Three different TVs showing two different versions of the ad while the music blares out in a bar.
Aaron Schatz: Great comment in open thread: "Not only does that ad not make me want to buy a Chevy, it makes me want to join Al Qaeda."
Tim Gerheim: You're both on a DHS list right about now.
(This is normally where we write about Any Given Sunday and Every Play Counts, but we're not sure what we're doing yet. So much to choose from!)
I'm pretty sure McCree's helmet never touched T.J.'s. I know for a fact that Godfrey's knee slammed into his dome, though. Godfrey not McCree took Houshmandzadeh out of that game.
My vote is for Jets-Pats for AGS. You've already covered Hou-Jax so that should be out, and you did Miami last week. As Farrar points out on Fox, other games weren't such big upsets. Oh, and I'm a Jets fan.
The Jets OL has improved drastically in run blocking from early in the season. I would say that's part maturation of the rookies, part improved cohesiveness of a unit with only two starters from last year, and part the return of Pete Kendall from early season injury.
You think rhyming with Huard is hard? Try to come up with a rhyme for "DVOA".
In reference to Tom Ashworth, I have to confess a missed assignment of my own. Mike Holmgren said after the game (and after my Seattle comments were written) that the play was supposed to be a quick pass, and Ashworth was supposed to turn inside. His ability to protect has been problematic enough in other instances, but he shouldn't get the goat horns on that one.
This makes two weeks in a row that the Patriots have had trouble handling blitzes from the free safety and the safety coming up to fill holes and stop their inside run game. I thought last week it was just Bob Sanders having a great day, but the Jets seemed to have watched the same tape, because their safety did the same thing. I hope this isn't a trend. Does Green Bay have a good free safety?
I'd vote for jets/Pats for AGS as well. I was certain that the jets sucked. I hate to sound like the host for Cold Pizza, but did the jets win the game, or did the Patriots play like crap?
The jets run defense has been AWFUL all year. Why not just pound the ball in the crappy weather?
I can't agree that Chicago's short-FG return was an act of complete randomness. Chicago's unit featured a great returner, specifically positioned in front of the uprights because of the long kick in bad weather, and their defensive/special teams units are fantastic blockers. Their D and special teams units are coached to score points, above all else. It seems obvious that Chicago makes plays like that more than the average team, and such plays should be taken into account.
The R. Jay Soward line was tremendous.
I didn't follow the Philadelphia-Washington game closely. Was Marty's play calling distinctive or different in any way? Not that Reid wasn't involved in the game plan or can't overrule, but I'm curious to hear some comments on that (and not just because I'm wondering what happened to my tight end, L.J. Smith).
Has a Hall of Fame induction ever been taken away? No? Okay, you're safe, Gibbs.
Is Marion Barber really that good, or does he look better than he really is because of the friendly context where he does so much of his work (fourth quarter, tired fronts). He runs a few people over every week I get to see him.
wrt Buffalo's "base" 4-2-5 defense: Yet another benefit of the 3-4 defense against the Colts. Going against that no-huddle, being able to drop a linebacker into coverage when necessary on pass plays and pulling him in on run plays leaves fewer weaknesses.
You're right #1. Mccree's shoulder hit TJ's shoulder which knocked his head into Godfrey's knee. The hit was early and it was hard but Mccree did NOT go helmet to helmet.
In regards to the missed FG runback in the Chicago-New York Giants game...
To some extent, I can understand not wanting to dock a team on DVOA for something like that. But given that the Giants obviously gave up on the play, shouldn't their special teams be penalized for it?
"You think rhyming with Huard is hard? Try to come up with a rhyme for “DVOA�. "
At the risk of pulling out even more Easterbrook comparisons, ever consider haiku or Japanese linked verse?
After not seeing Eli since week one, and seeing his completion percentage for the season, I thought, "Eli's accuracy can't be as bad as everybody at FO seems to think."
Then I got to watch him again. It's bad. Surprisingly bad. not-NFL-quality bad. Wow. Accuracy is probably the most important skill for an NFL QB, and the Giants are 6-3 with a QB that doesn't have it.
I wonder how much "sleeper value" Dallas has in the numbers given the Romo results vs. the last days of Bledsoe. Any season-long snapshot of Dallas will mislead us for sure, obviously.
I just wanted to say that the media in DC has been quite critical of the Redskins this season, including Jason La Canfora's opus a few weeks ago. Other than that, another enjoyable Audibles.
Oh, one more thing: anyone care to elaborate on why Tice is behind the Garrard decision?
7 & 11:
It's not about "penalizing" the Giants or "rewarding" the Bears. The actual results of the play did that plenty. The reason the play is dropped from the DVOA calculation is that the circumstances where a team is even in a position to run back/defend a short FG attempt are so rare that whether they are good or bad in such circumstances has really no predictive effect on future games.
Also, there was some discussion in the main body about the Giants' defensive collapse in the late first half. Partly, this was good adjustments by Chicago, but it was also the injury to Sam Madison. When Madison was hurt, McQuarters moved outside, and rookie free agent Kevin Dockery became the slot CB. The Giants didn't trust Dockery enough to bring the safety pressure that had worked so well up to that point.
My David Garrard = Steve Walsh theory needs to be abandoned. It would have been fun, too!
"Not only does that ad not make me want to buy a Chevy, it makes me want to join Al Qaeda."
LMFAO!!
My question on the Hester FG return: As I understand it, if he had just let the kick bounce through the end zone, it would have been Bears ball at the 42 (the spot of the kick). But if he downs it, they get it at the 20, right?
All the previous times I've seen short FGs run out of the end zone, it's been at the end of a half (for obvious reasons). This is the first time I've seen one in the middle of a quarter, and though I can't argue with the results, I wonder if the smart play in that situation is to not field the ball.
re 18, do you mean steve young?? You seem to have combined Bill Walsh and Steve young. Although I could be wrong here.
Re: 1
Yes, McCree's hit was out of line, but I remember thinking the exact same thing on replay. I also can't help but feel the commentators overreacted slightly; it was NOT helmet-to-helmet. It was a still a personal foul, but c'mon, did McCree owe those guys in the boooth money?
Oh, and about the Pats game. I can't believe they lost to the J-E-T-S. It seems usually the Jets play us (yes us, I'm a Pats fan) really close, but hardly ever lead, and never come through on the final drive. Sunday the roles were reveresed, in part thanks to someone else putting on Kevan Barlow's jersey and having a good game against us. Seriously, what was the last time Barlow had an average of above 4.0 YPC with significant carries? 2004?
Phil Simms annoyed the heck out of me the entire game. Don't know about you other football fans, but in my opinion he's amongst the worst in the booth.
21: No, Steve Walsh, for the '94 Bears. Erik Kramer was better, but when Walsh started, the gameplan went ultra-conservative and that seemed to suit that Bears team best. For some reason, Walsh's '94 season is one of my enduring football memories, and I keep waiting for the next Steve Walsh to come along!
Walsh was selected by the Dallas Cowboys with the first pick in the 1989 NFL Supplemental Draft. With Dallas, Walsh was reunited with his former head coach at Miami, Jimmy Johnson, who had just taken over the Cowboys' reins. However, Dallas had also selected quarterback Troy Aikman in the regular draft that same year and Walsh was never able to move out of the role of Aikman's backup.
Mike McCarthy has accomplished two things that Mike Sherman could not.
First, he rebuilt the offensive line on the fly. As I have written previously, the Packer offensive line was showing signs of improvement by game 3 and yesterday kept Favre upright against a very good defense. Pat Williams repeatedly destroyed the running plays, but the D-line for Minny was stoned time and again by the Packers O-line.
Second, McCarthy has somehow convinced Favre to take care of the ball. Sure, some of the decrease in interceptions is your old regressing to the mean. But almost to a poster on this site folks declared Favre a turnover machine who should retire immediately to avoid further embarrassment. And instead the veteran QB has become quite willing to throw to his backs or just toss it out of bounds.
The secondary still stinks after nine games, the punter keeps kicking the ball into the end zone, and the special teams in general are bad. But two glaring issues that were undermining any attempt at progress have been improved significantly.
The Packers may still only win 6-7 games this year. But McCarthy has given Packer fans reason to hope.
And hope is a beautiful thing to have.
ah. ok. Thanks for the clarification.
Hector: The Eagles ran a LOT more than they usually do, although whether that was due to Marty calling the plays or the weather wrecking the passing game is hard to say. Neither QB was particularly accurate.
24: Walsh quickly moved out of the role as Aikman's backup when the Saints traded for him because Bobby Hebert was holding out in 1990. Walsh then battled with John Fourcade for the starting QB spot with the Saints, eventually winning it and leading the Saints to a playoff loss against the Bears in the snow in Chicago (obviously). A turning point of that game was when Vince Buck was called for having his hand in the neutral zone on FG attempt that the Saints blocked and returned for a touchdown, which would likely have won the game. FWIW, Buck, a safety, was lined up on the end, and the block was from the surge in the middle. He also was not the man who scooped up the return (IIRC), so he was not a factor in the play. I provide this as evidence of the Saints being the Saints (that, and yesterday's three TO performance).
I just posted this in the Open Discussion thread, but it seems more appropriate here (besides the fact that nobody's gonna see it in the open thread):
I’d just like to highlight the final drive of the Philly/Washington game:
Philadelphia Eagles at 09:03
1-10-PHI28 (9:03) B.Westbrook up the middle to PHI 31 for 3 yards (T.Vincent).
2-7-PHI31 (8:21) B.Westbrook right tackle to PHI 34 for 3 yards (A.Carter).
3-4-PHI34 (7:38) B.Westbrook left end to PHI 38 for 4 yards (S.Taylor).
1-10-PHI38 (6:55) B.Westbrook right guard to PHI 40 for 2 yards (M.Washington).
2-8-PHI40 (6:06) B.Westbrook left tackle to WAS 49 for 11 yards (C.Rogers).
1-10-WAS49 (5:17) C.Buckhalter up the middle to 50 for -1 yards (D.Evans).
2-11-50 (4:28) B.Westbrook left tackle to WAS 29 for 21 yards (S.Taylor).
1-10-WAS29 (3:36) C.Buckhalter right tackle to WAS 26 for 3 yards (S.Taylor).
2-7-WAS26 (2:52) C.Buckhalter right guard to WAS 25 for 1 yard (J.Salave’a).
3-6-WAS25 (2:09) D.McNabb pass short right to B.Westbrook to WAS 18 for 7 yards (K.Golston).
1-10-WAS18 (2:00) C.Buckhalter up the middle to WAS 14 for 4 yards (R.Wynn).
2-6-WAS14 (1:14) D.McNabb kneels to WAS 15 for -1 yards.
3-7-WAS15 (:32) D.McNabb kneels to WAS 16 for -1 yards.
That’s 10 runs (and 2 kneel-downs) on a drive resulting in 4 first downs, 57 yards, and eating up the final 9 minutes of the game (the only pass was a completion for 7 yards on 3rd & 6). I’m at a loss for words. Praise Jesus!
I vote for Chargers-Bengals, simply because it would basically force you into writing just about the longest article in FO history.
Re: Pats-Jets
Yes, Phil Simms does suck.
At some point in that game Seymour went out, which was very confusing. Maybe he got hurt.
Chad Scott should not be a starter. He does OK when he comes in as a third CB. He is not a good safety. I thought the Jets ability to put a safety up close to the line and blitz with him and use him in run support made a huge difference in this game. Scott simply does not have what it takes to play in the box like you need a strong safety to do on a day like this. He also got out of position a couple of times in pass coverage.
For Any Given Sunday I mean.
The Tice Garrard thingy could be a comparison to Culpepper, both big strong mobile QBs who aren't actually all that accurate but have big tall receivers to throw underthrown jump balls to. Tice probably thinks that his coaching and blocking schemes (not Randy Moss) were the reason for Minnesota's offensive production and as such can be replicated in Jacksonville. He can also get hold of Superbowl tickets if you are interested.
On the Marlon McCree hit, I was fairly appalled by the hit and I don't care if it was or wasn't helmet to helmet it was still a nasty cheap shot. Yet it worked, Houshmandzadeh was knocked out of the game and the Bengals struggled to throw the ball down the field to tie the game up without their no2 receiver while McCree played on. I wish the NFL would institute an 'eye for an eye' rule on stuff like that. It might be tricky but when there is a blatant dirty hit that puts someone out of the game the perpetrator should also be sat down until the player injured recovers. Why should the dirty player be able to continue to produce and enhance his earning potential while the victim gets labelled injury prone or gets his fourth or fifth concussion and is looked at as a risk by every NFL team. If guys who cause others injuries by transgressing the rules had to miss time teams would look at them diferently when it came to contract time.
Iwas appalled by the hit and began to root for Cincinati until my brother reminded me that the Bengals are a bunch of recidivist criminals, drunk drivers and a rapist so I stopped.
#11: The missed FG return has happened what, 4 times in the last 5 years? It's something opposing coaches should certainly take into account but it's not something that can be statistically significant simply because of its rarity.
22: I'm with you, I too find Phil Simms excruciating. I'd almost rather watch ESPN's crew, and I'm not even joking.
22: Simms is bad but after the charger game I'm not sure anyone is worse than Dierdorff.
"The Jets OL has improved drastically in run blocking from early in the season. I would say that’s part maturation of the rookies, part improved cohesiveness of a unit with only two starters from last year, and part the return of Pete Kendall from early season injury."
Nick Mangold really should get consideration for AFC offensive rookie of the year. The John Abraham trade isn't looking to shabby for the Jets right now,is it?
Perhaps the missed-fg-return is one of those things that needs to remain beyond the scope of computer system statistics. It does tell us something about Chicago's coaching, Chicago's special teams, New York's preparedness, etc., but not in any meaningful statistical or predictive way.
It matters, but not in a quantifiable way.
Agree Simms is bad. Like many bad announcers, he talks way too much about meeting and talking to the player or coach the night before, instead of talking about what's going on in the game. Rarely points out something that happens on the field that isn't obvious to the casual viewer
And he announces with the same laissez-faire attitude he raised his son with.
#20: Excellent question. I wonder if your assumption regarding this rule is accurate. I mean, it seems like that is what the rule should be.
I didn't watch the NE-NYJ game and don't follow either team, but I live in New Jersey and there's a lot of stuff in the paper this morning about the Jets players playing extra hard because they feel that Belichick has "dissed" Mangini. Does anyone think there's anything to this? Did Belichick unwittingly make a coaching error of sorts by his attitude or behavior towards Mangini (i.e., ceding the emotional "high ground" to the Jets)? Football is often a game where emotion has a great deal to do with the outcome, but it is also often cited as an after the fact explanation in lieu of more serious analysis. I'm interested in whether anyone thinks this had anything to do with the upset (and I don't have a horse in this race--I'm just interested in the idea.)
Re: 31
At some point in that game Seymour went out, which was very confusing. Maybe he got hurt.
According to Seymour himself in the Boston Globe, he was going into and out of the game on scheduled rotations, and wasn't happy about it.
#20: No, if he downs it they get it at the spot of the kick. If he comes out of the end zone though, it's wherever he's downed.
I am still trying to wrap my mind around the FG return rules. Can anyone answer the following questions...
1) If Hester took a knee in the end zone, do the bears get the ball at the 20 or the spot of the kick?
2) After the kick, is it a free ball? Like a kick off, can the kicking team recover it on the field for possession. If they can't get possesion, can they cover the kick and give it to the opposing team at the spot the ball is recovered.
3) If a field goal attempt goes out of bounds before the goal line, does the other team get the ball when the ball goes out of bounds or the spot of the kick.
I would assume the bears get the ball from where it was kicked if it isn't ran out of the end zone, but I can't rationalize without a specific rules pertaining to the act of a field goal attempt. Anyone know the answers?
Pacifist V, I love your blog. Will you be doing a Miami/Minny preview? I'm interested in your views on the game.
Miami run offense vs Vikings run defense will be a great matchup.
#32: Except that the favorites won.
RE: #29 Wanker
Wow. An actual clock-eating, game-ending drive from the Philadelphia Eagles. You know that Reid wouldn't have stuck with the run there, especially on the 2nd and 11. It gives me the shadow of a hope that maybe the Eagles actually CAN run the ball when they need to. Now I just need to see them do it against someone other than Washington.
33: I disagree. McCree mis-timed his hit (badly) and Housh was unlucky enough to catch Godfrey's knee in the head. Marlon is not a dirty player and his hit wasn't even the one that took Housh out of the game.
Hey guys, thanks for blowing it on the Dolphins-Chiefs game. You spent the entire time talking about rhyming last names!? Ridiculous. I missed my beloved Dolphins and was hoping to get some insight on who did and did not play extraordinarily well. No thanks for you guys.
46: It would still be an interesting AGS. Down 21-0 at one point, the Chargers won 49-41. It would be interesting to see what the Chargers did differently to score 42 points in the second half.
Come on Karl, don't give us Fish Fans a bad name.
41: I think it's more of the media playing up this point to sell papers. Mangini doesn't make anything of this, at least not in public. Though perhaps Belichick's actions were an attempt to get some psychological edge over Mangini.
You ever go to or watch a game you have no rooting interest in and have people around you make want the team they’re supporting to lose? We need a name for those people. Anti-fans?
It's not quite the same thing, but while I came into last night's game rooting for New York, the minute I remembered "Ballin!" I changed my tune a bit, and felt somewhere between neutral and wanting Chicago to win. I don't have a problem with the fact that they're celebrating, I just think it's the most retarded thing I've ever seen.
More impressions from another victim of Broncos-Raiders:
The Broncos were very, very lucky to come out of that game with a win. (I will now look at the camera, frown, and pull out a sign that says "Help!") They recovered all 4 fumbles committed by both teams, and a fifth fumble - on a punt return by David Kircus on the Broncos' 20 when they were down 13-7 - was nullified by an Oakland penalty that in no way caused the fumble. One of the fumbles they recovered took place on the Oakland 5 yard line when they were driving for the eventual go-ahead touchdown.
Also, this was a game where the Oakland offensive line actually played reasonably well - or at least looked like they did so against a pretty bad Broncos' defensive line. So we got to see what Andrew Walter could do with protection; while he didn't throw any picks, he was very inconsistent. He'd hit the open man one play, and miss him completely the next. There were some Raider drives during that interminable 13-7 stretch that could have been extended if he had any accuracy whatsoever when throwing on the run. I don't think we can put the blame for the worst passing offense in football entirely on the Raiders' offensive line.
And finally, the MVP of the game - or at least, the only player that really looked good - was Raiders punter Shane Lechler. He pinned the Broncos inside their 10 yard line 3 times, and had another punt which landed at a dead stop just outside the goal line - only the nose of the ball was over the goal line so it was a touchback. In a game that was largely about field position, these punts were as big as Jake's interceptions.
45, Thanks, and later in the week I'll probably do something about it.
Re: 44
1. Had Hester downed the ball in the end zone, it would have been a touchback. Had he let it go, the Bears would have started their next possession at the 42.
2. Had the Giants recovered the ball (without the Bears touching it first), it would be treated the same as downing a punt; the Giants would be called for illegal touching and the Bears would get possession at the spot of recovery (or at the 20, if in the end zone). Had the Bears touched it first (except for a block at/before the line of scrimmage), the Giants would have gained possession at the spot of recovery.
3. If the field goal attempt went out-of-bounds before the goal line, the Bears would take possession at that spot. If it went out-of-bounds in the end zone, it's a touchback.
Oh yeah, one thing I forgot. If anything captures Walter's ineptitude, and the quality of play in the game in general, it's this. The Raiders got the ball back, down 4, with 2 minutes to go and no timeouts. Perfect time for Andrew Walter to make a name for himself, especially since this was the first game all year where he had reasonably good protection. So what does he do? He fumbles the snap on the first play. Game over.
Correction to #56:
1. Had Hester downed the ball in the end zone, the Bears would have gained possession at the spot of the kick, the 42. The end zone is not considered the "field of play."
#48
How can you claim that McCree wasn't responsible for the hit on TJH?
If he hadn't lit him up WAY before the ball arrived TJH's head would have gone nowhere near Godfrey's knee. I concur that it was the pinball effect that probably caused the concussion, but McCree started the pinballing with a vicious hit McCree had a clear view of where the ball was, must have known that he was way too early, that TJH would have no idea that he was about to get hit and wouldn't therefore be protecting himself.
Prior to this incident I didn't think McCree was a dirty player, but I do now.
#29 & #47:
While that final drive was nice, it meant little in the context of the game as Philly was up by four scores. Had the game not been totally out of reach, Washington might have tried harder to stop the run. Other teams have certainly shown the ability to stuff the Eagles' run game when they need to.
Re:#56
3. If the field goal attempt went out-of-bounds before the goal line, the Bears would take possession at that spot. If it went out-of-bounds in the end zone, it’s a touchback.
That can't be right. Wouldn't it just be a missed FG and the Bears would get possession at the spot of the kick?
3. If the field goal attempt went out-of-bounds before the goal line, the Bears would take possession at that spot. If it went out-of-bounds in the end zone, it’s a touchback.
Some clever coach is going to have his placekicker start practicing coffin-corner placekicks.
"This is probably why none of us are watching this game."
What is the story on the rules regarding which games can be shown in what areas? The Detroit/SF game was the only game on at 1:00 (I live in MI over 100 miles from Detroit) in this area. To make matters worse, when CBS did air a game at 4:00, it was the equally crappy Denver/Oakland contest. I could (almost) understand this if I actually lived in metro Detroit, but this makes absolutely no sense. Is an area this far away from Detroit actually bound by rule to show these games? If so, how in the heck does it benefit the NFL if I'm turning off the TV because the games are so bad?
#58
How could McCree have anticipated that TJH's head would collide with Godfrey's knee? It was an early hit and he got deservedly flagged for it. But it wasn't helmet to helmet and it didn't look like an attempt to injure TJH.
Oops, meant to direct that to #59.
Re: 61
Rule 7-5-1:
If any kick, except for a free kick, is out of bounds between the goal lines, ball is next put in play at inbounds spot by the receivers, unless there is a spot of illegal touching nearer kickers’ goal line.
Re: 61
And, Rule 11-6-1-b:
When an impetus (3-14-3) by a team sends a ball in touch behind its opponents’ goal line, it is a touchback ...
(b) if the ball is out of bounds behind the goal line (see 7-5-6-c);
Hey guys, thanks for blowing it on the Dolphins-Chiefs game. You spent the entire time talking about rhyming last names!? Ridiculous. I missed my beloved Dolphins and was hoping to get some insight on who did and did not play extraordinarily well. No thanks for you guys.
Games are chosen based on our own personal viewing preferences, and are going to reflect the teams we support and the cities where we live.
#59: For all of you complaining about the McCree hit, it bears mentioning that the most recent play-by-play I've read shows a pass interference pentalty. No personal foul.
So, while you all may think it was the dirtiest hit in the history of the game, the officials seem to think it was a clean strike that was simply misstimed.
Maybe all of you, FO writers included, should have muted Dierdorf's overly-animated reaction (by the way, wasn't he one of the dirties players to touch the gridiron?) and look at the replay. McCree led with his shoulder. If that hit comes half a second later, Housh is still out of commission, but we're all talking about how great of a defensive play that was.
RE:66
Rule 11-5-2:
All field goals attempted and missed when the spot of the kick is beyond the 20-yard line will result in the defensive team taking possession of the ball at the spot of the kick. On any field goal attempted and missed when the spot of the kick is on or inside the 20-yard line, the ball will revert to the defensive team at the 20-yard line.
Though, with the following note:
1) If a missed field goal is first touched by the receivers beyond the line in the field of play and the ball then goes out of bounds, it is the receivers’ ball at the out of bounds spot.
So, if no one touches it, it's receivers ball at the point of the kick.
I didn't notice much different with Mornhinweg either, but looking at it now, they were damn near a 50/50 run split before they got the 27-3 lead. 22 passes, 15 runs, and one play marked "to Westbrook," which I can't figure whether it was a run or a pass ... but 6 of the passes came in those 2 ill-fated two-minute drill drives. Their next offensive series was 5 passes, 4 runs, then the drive in post 29. I guess you could say the last drive shouldn't count, but looking at the Giants game, they went 12 runs, 11 passes from the time they took the 24-7 lead until Feely's tying FG at the end of regulation.
#64: Different Scenario, McCree Hits TJ hard enough to flip him over and he lands on his neck, breaking a vertabrae. Is it not his fault because it was the ground that caused the injury, and not him laying an exceptionally early hit against someone not even bracing for it?
Re: 70
Then the rules are in conflict, because Rules 7-5-1 and 11-6-1-b make no exception for a missed field goal.
Anti-fans doesn't work, because anti-fans are the people who watch every game of a certain team and root for them to lose.
"I usually wind up rooting against the out of town team whose “fan� at the bar feels the need to curse out the players he is supposedly rooting for every time they do something wrong. I usually assume that the dude is a gambler and I just want him to lose money."
I can't agree with that, it seems as though I am constantly swearing at the team I am rooting for. I am a Dolphins fan however, so they most likely deserve it.
"If that hit comes half a second later, Housh is still out of commission, but we’re all talking about how great of a defensive play that was."
If I punch you in the face when you're not paying attention, it's a cheap shot, if it's in the middle of a boxing match it's a good punch. What's the point you're trying to make?
They showed 3 replays of the McCree hit. On the 3rd you could plainly see that their helmets hit, but it was clear that most of the hit was absorbed shoulder to shoulder. It was not at all a Lynch et al. style helmet-to-helmet hit, although it was still a cheap shot given the timing.
RE:73 Well, I'm not sure that a Field goal is considered a Scrimmage Kick, which I think is what those rules apply to.
Re: 69
Except the whole point is that it DIDN'T come half a second later. That is the crux of the matter, so you can't call it "simply misstimed". If you are going to try and lay lumber on a receiver, you had better make damn sure you time it right, and McCree didn't. And I don't care what the refs called, you are not going to convince me that hitting a receiver well before the ball gets there is not a cheap shot.
Maybe McCree did not have malice aforethought, but he was playing out of control, and that's just as bad IMO.
"Has there ever been an easier 80+ yard punt return in history than Nate Burleson’s?"
How about Devin Hester's 83 yard game-winning punt return against Arizona in the Monday night game a few weeks ago? That was just about as easy.
Re: 77
The definition of "scrimmage kick" in the NFL rulebook is confusing. Rule 9: "Scrimmage Kicks."
Section 1 Kick from Scrimmage
Article 1 The kicking team, behind the scrimmage line, may:
(a) punt;
(b) dropkick; or
(c) placekick.
Next to this, in the margin, reads "Punt," but I'm not sure how a placekick can be considered a punt. Most of Rule 9 deals with punts, but there are a few mentions of missed/blocked field goal attempts.
Doug Farrar: FS Marlon McCree just went helmet-to-helmet on T.J. Houshmandzadeh a good full second before the ball arrived as Houshmandzadeh was running a crossing pattern. McCree very obviously left his feet and used his helmet as a weapon. If he doesn’t get fined five digits at the very least, the Bengals have every right to be incensed. Enough of this “$5,000 fine for horse-collar tackles� crap — not to mention other obvious personal fouls that can do great harm outside of the parameters of the game. The NFL really needs to send a message this time. Too bad he wasn’t wearing the wrong shoes!
Looking at it on my ReplayTV in Slo-mo it was shoulder to shoulder, with perhaps a helmet "tap" at some point. The hit was clearly initiated shoulder to shoulder and that is where the force of the impact was. On the other hand, the reciever flipped to the side and got a very hard hit to the head by the knee of Randall Godfrey. Looks like a clean hit, but a very early, mis-timed hit. Probably a fine in for that, but it wasn't helmet to helmet so it probaly won't be big.
The flag was not a personal foul, but an interference call.