The Official Thread for Irrational Brady-Manning Arguments Part III
The original version of this thread first appeared back in July 2004 as a way to move all the Tom Brady vs. Peyton Manning debate out of other discussions and into one place. We don’t know why people have a tendency to lose their minds over this issue, but it really does take over every discussion thread if we let it. At one point, a discussion of the San Francisco 49ers’ salary cap problems turned into a debate over Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Every time the Colts play the Patriots, we are in danger of this site becoming all Brady-Manning all the time. Therefore, Football Outsiders has two hard and fast rules:
1) Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are tied for the title of best quarterback in football.
2) Any discussion of whether one is better than the other must go in this thread, and will be deleted from all other discussion threads.
The original thread, with a longer discussion of the whole Tom Brady vs. Peyton Manning problem, is here. Note that roughly 800 comments are missing from that thread, because we had to clean out old comments to try to solve some of the server issues. We did archive them and are working on a way to bring all older comments back without filling the comment database.
Part II, posted during the 2006 regular season game between New England and Indianapolis, is here.
Disclaimer: This discussion is far, far sillier than the other discussion threads on this site, and it is meant to be. The rest of the website is not like this.
posted
1-14-2007 at 9:42 PM by
The Outsiders
||
Open Discussion
Brady is better because his receivers are worse.
:: First! — 1/14/2007 @ 9:52 pm
Wow, I logged on to sarcastically ask where this thread was. I really can’t take a full week of debate. Tuning out til Sunday,
:: Francisco — 1/14/2007 @ 9:52 pm
All right, I can’t help it.
Manning is better because Brady is an insufferable little bitch.
:: Francisco — 1/14/2007 @ 9:53 pm
Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning didn’t seem to be on the same page during the Ravens game. Just sayin’.
:: Mark — 1/14/2007 @ 9:53 pm
I’m better because Peyton has been carried by his defense this post-season. Did you see the way I took the Patriots on my back this afternoon? It was lights out for San Diego.
:: Tom Brady — 1/14/2007 @ 9:55 pm
First. As a Bostonian , guess where I stand. Brady just wins,baby. Manning has been fantastic as a passer this year, playoffs excepted. Next Sunday will go a long way to figure out this argument. If Pats win, this argument stops for a year.
:: Chuck — 1/14/2007 @ 9:55 pm
Well, Manning’s had five picks so far this postseason, and Brady’s had three. Clearly the superior player is Grossman.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 9:55 pm
THIRD!!
Re #12
I thought that meme died out last year.
:: Lou — 1/14/2007 @ 9:55 pm
Manning is obviously better because he’s in more TV commercials.
:: Justin Zeth — 1/14/2007 @ 9:56 pm
As a Colts fan I’d just like to say that I really believe Tom Brady is a fine QB, and that the Patriots have been a dynasty of the sort that the 49ers and Cowboys were in the past, I also think he is as Joe Dumars was to Micheal Jordan, a great player on a superior team, who isn’t at all the individual talent that Peyton is. How many Pats fans honestly believe their team which is once again superior in almost every aspect wouldn’t be even more superior with Manning instead of Brady?
(I May possess slightly more objectivity than a genuine Colts fan as I’m a Bungles fan first and foremost, but due to their proximity and years of exposure I’m enough of a Colts fan to root for them in all situations when they’re not directly playing the Bengals, and yes it does suck to be a Bengals fan.)
:: Don M — 1/14/2007 @ 9:56 pm
5: Yea, throwing a pick on 4th down, knowing Brown would force the fumble and the Patriots would recover was pure brilliance. Not many QBs can make that play.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 9:56 pm
Manning is better because he has a retarded little brother who he has to be nice to and let tag along and ruin everything.
:: Insancipitory — 1/14/2007 @ 9:57 pm
What’s funny is that Manning’s already been choking in the playoffs; it’s just that his opponents choked even worse.
On the other hand, Brady played against Uncle Marty’s team, which is pretty much the same thing as having a bye.
THEY BOTH SUCK.
:: Justin Zeth — 1/14/2007 @ 9:58 pm
Tom Brady is better because “he just wins games.” God that chargers game was brutal to watch.
:: Compucrazy — 1/14/2007 @ 9:59 pm
#12 has a point: If someone named Bob Brady or something came out of college, I doubt he’d be the #1 overall pick just because his big brother is TOM BRADY©.
C’mon, guys, Manning is superior in just about every phase of the game. Just admit it.
:: Justin Zeth — 1/14/2007 @ 10:00 pm
Manning is so good other teams draft his relatives #1 solely on the hope that they can be like Peyton. How many of Brady’s relatives have even been drafted?
:: Lou — 1/14/2007 @ 10:02 pm
Manning has more wins than Brady since 2001. Game, set, match.
:: Justin Zeth — 1/14/2007 @ 10:02 pm
Hmmmm… I would think that given the differences in the league NE is far and away a better dynasty than either of those teams.
As for the Manning vs Brady, I think it is hard to say.
I know I would take Manning in an instant though. Not that my opinion means much.
:: Becephalus — 1/14/2007 @ 10:03 pm
Just look at the rings.
:: TH — 1/14/2007 @ 10:03 pm
David “just wins” Garrard has thrown fewer interceptions than Manning or Brady this postseason. Where’s the love?
As to the title of second best qb in football, however, Peyton is much better because he inspired his defense to hold their opponents to 14 points over two playoff games, while Brady’s ‘inspiration’ has led to the Patriots giving up 37 points over their two playoff games.
:: throughthelookingglass — 1/14/2007 @ 10:03 pm
The “just wins” mockery is less impressive when comparing two very good quarterbacks with wildly different post season records.
:: Count — 1/14/2007 @ 10:07 pm
16: Marcia Brady went in the 9th round.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 10:07 pm
Brady is better because his game contains a psychological edge. 4th down interception raises the Chargers hopes, only for them to be dashed because Brady placed that pick just right for his WR to backtrack and force the fumble, crushing the Chargers spirits. After that it was easy pickings.
:: Rollo — 1/14/2007 @ 10:08 pm
re: 11
yeah, that 4th-down INT was so clutch. omg brady is clutch.
:: Joon — 1/14/2007 @ 10:09 pm
The Pats gameplan is to limp into the fourth quarter and win on a series of improbable plays.
:: Dan R. — 1/14/2007 @ 10:11 pm
This is fairly cut and dry. If Brady was indeed the better quarterback, he’d be in more commercials than Manning.
I’m just saying.
:: 6\'5\ — 1/14/2007 @ 10:12 pm
Charlie Frye has fewer INTs than either of these guys this postseason. Clearly he’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer.
:: Trogdor — 1/14/2007 @ 10:13 pm
I don’t care what anyone says… Eli Manning is easily better than Brady Quinn.
:: kevinNYC — 1/14/2007 @ 10:14 pm
23
What about Manning throwing that interception to Ty Law knowing that Tynes would miss the chip shot field goal?
Plus, the goat thing downgrades Brady by at least 4 clutch points. No way is a goat clutch.
:: throughthelookingglass — 1/14/2007 @ 10:14 pm
Manning is a better passer, but I’ll take Brady for the taunting edge.
:: RecoveringPackerFan — 1/14/2007 @ 10:16 pm
25: You gotta admit, it’s a flawless plan.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 10:16 pm
Looking at Rings only lead me to believe that Kurt Warner was better than Dan Marino, and that both Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer were better than Dan Fouts or Dan Marino or Kenny Anderson. Which frankly does not compute, now I’ll grant Tom Brady is no Brad Johnson, but when you’re personally responsible for roughly 3% of the minutes that are played by your team, I think judging the players whole career off championships is something for drunken sports bar arguments.
:: Don M — 1/14/2007 @ 10:17 pm
32: Lloyd Palmerson!
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 10:19 pm
BB is brilliant. Win ugly in SD so no one favors the Pats against the Colts.
This keeps the pressure on Peyton to win the big one. At home vs an undeserving 4th seed.
True to script, Peyton screws up vs BB. Brady and the Pats go off to the big show!!!
Brilliant
:: stamford — 1/14/2007 @ 10:20 pm
Colts points allowed per playoff game with Manning (before this season): 23.7
Patriots Playoff D w/Brady (before this season): 16.8
As has been noted, clearly Brady inspires clutchness in his defense much better than Manning.
:: Erithtotl — 1/14/2007 @ 10:22 pm
I think judging the players whole career off championships is something for drunken sports bar arguments.
what do you think this is?
:: throughthelookingglass — 1/14/2007 @ 10:22 pm
Err, I mean Lord Palmerston.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 10:22 pm
This is amazing. I love the internet and FO. I thank you guys for housing this rational forum for discussion.
Watching these two guys in the playoffs this year has been difficult at times. They are both not playing their best football - whether it be missing some wide open receivers or over-thinking reads or tossing dumb interceptions. But I am insanely excited for this next matchup between these two. I would actually agree with FO’s position on this, as much as it pains me as a dyed in the wool Colts fan: the two are both really great QBs, enough that any team in the league would want them. Peyton creates matchups no other QB does, except maybe Brady. Brady is cool under pressure (and ‘just wins’ in the postseason, HA) like no other QB except for Manning.
So in summary, please end the insanity, except for being a fan. Brady is damn good, Peyton is also damn good. As a Colts fan, I hope the supporting cast can continue their postseason dominance!
:: Nick — 1/14/2007 @ 10:24 pm
As a pats fan, peyton has been very impressive this season. Some of his plays are breathtaking. I just wish he played for another team in another conference so I wouldn’t dislike him so much. And those damn commercials. Eww.
:: Count — 1/14/2007 @ 10:30 pm
32 - Pitt the Elder!
:: Randy S. — 1/14/2007 @ 10:33 pm
Question for the FO gurus:
Are Peyton’s 5 int’s precluding a collapse in the games to come?
:: BC Pat — 1/14/2007 @ 10:35 pm
I have bet NE moneyline every playoff game since their 2nd championship even though i can’t stand their uncanny ability to get outplayed for the majority of a game and sitll pull it out.
:: Dave Brude — 1/14/2007 @ 10:37 pm
While I’m a diehard Patriots fan, I think Peyton Manning is an absolute joy to watch. But his stat line against KC reminded me of a game of NCAA 07, and he was not (statisically speaking, as I barely saw the game) a decisive factor against the Ravens. I understand Eli’s 2005 completion percentage was a harbinger of things to come turnover-wise, but is the inverse true in this situation with his elder brother?
:: BC Pat — 1/14/2007 @ 10:38 pm
#’s 32, 40:
You two are so full of it. DISRAELI, you schmucks!
:: Tom Kelso — 1/14/2007 @ 10:38 pm
#159- Geez. Talk about irrational. Your argument might be a little more convincing if you had even a few statistics to back yourslef up I might be convinced
:: Jesse — 1/14/2007 @ 10:41 pm
41: Manning and Brady are both getting their bad performances out of the way before the Championship game.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 10:42 pm
Obviously, Brady is better. He just wins. Like today when his team recovered five of five fumbles and you know they did it because of him.
:: Richard — 1/14/2007 @ 10:43 pm
Did Rivers ever have an audience with the Pope?
Peyton,you can still catch the 5:34 to the Vatican. Al Italia #54.
BTW, I don’t ever recall saying “Peyton” in the Bible. WUwiddat?
:: Deb from Dorchester — 1/14/2007 @ 10:44 pm
23:
I agree. Brady thew that one so hard that it took the DB three or four steps to realize he couldn’t hold onto it. Just long enough to establish possession. Like Peyton could do that.
:: billsfan — 1/14/2007 @ 10:47 pm
Guns don’t kill people. Peyton Manning kills People.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of animals Tom Brady allows to live.
Peyton Manning does not sleep. He waits.
The chief export of Tom Brady is Pain.
There is no chin under Peyton Manning’s Beard. There is only another football.
Tom Brady has two speeds. Walk, and Touchdown.
The leading causes of death in the United States are: 1. Heart Disease 2. Peyton Manning 3. Cancer
Tom Brady doesn’t watch the gameclock, HE decides what time it is.
Peyton Manning doesn’t read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.
Outer space exists because it’s afraid to be on the same planet with Tom Brady.
When Peyton Manning does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
:: The Ninjalectual — 1/14/2007 @ 10:48 pm
Only Brady can melt the minds of NFL DB’s so they forget that catching the ball means nothing on 4th down! Like Manning could pull that off HA!
:: Compucrazy — 1/14/2007 @ 10:50 pm
51: Yea, well Manning’s mental powers cause opposing linebackers to deflect his interceptions.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 10:53 pm
Peyton Manning can cause the opposing teams field goal kickers to miss at a much higher rate than the league average! With the power of his enormous brain.
:: Don M — 1/14/2007 @ 10:53 pm
Re: 25
Are you quoting Boomer during halftime? Because that’s almost exactly what he said, and I laughed when he said it.
I look at this whole argument as basically a joke right now, and I’m surprised that people are still trying to argue it rationally.
But I guess Manning must be better because he threw a multiple interceptions in two games and willed his defense to the win in both. Brady’s not clutch unless he does that next week, but he won’t, because Manning will out-clutch-interception him. (Although that pick-turned-fumble was super clutch.)
:: Gordon — 1/14/2007 @ 10:55 pm
Football Outsiders has two hard and fast rules:
1) Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are tied for the title of best quarterback in football.
Sorry to get serious here, but am I the only one bothered by this rule? By every Football Outsiders metric and principal, Manning is clearly the superior player. Please, Aaron, just come out and say that! The fact that you are a Patriots fan would make the proclamation particularly powerful. And I know that you are honest and dispassionate enough to set aside your personal loyalties in favor of the truth. The irrationality in the Manning v. Brady debate comes overwhelmingly from the Brady side because they don’t have much of a rational leg to stand on. And, if Manning wins the Super Bowl this year, this argument is permanently settled in his favor among all but the most strident of New England homers (like my friend from Providence who refuses to admit that Wayne Gretzky was better than Bobby Orr).
:: CA — 1/14/2007 @ 10:55 pm
50
Truly impressive. There is no spoon.
:: Bobman — 1/14/2007 @ 10:58 pm
Brady and Manning have both been having bad games but winning this playoffs.
:: andrew — 1/14/2007 @ 11:02 pm
Re: 55
“Principle,” not “principal.”
Normally I wouldn’t bother to repost just to correct such a menial error, but this thread is going to hit 1000 posts anyway, so what the hell?
:: CA — 1/14/2007 @ 11:02 pm
Manning? Brady?
Pfeh. Everybody knows that it’s all about the kickers.
:: Independent George — 1/14/2007 @ 11:03 pm
55 CA, you’re close, but if Manning’s team wins the SB and he does not get the MVP award… just you watch what the Pats fans will say. They’ll manufacture some additioal manure. God forbid Freeney gets 4 sacks and the MVP, because then this season Manning’s D will have “bailed him out and won it for him.” Just you wait and see….
That said, I really admire the playfulness here tonight. Mostly humor, which is about the only rational commentary on the topic. Not like 3-4 years ago, when I was, er, savaged as one of the few Colt fans on a predominantly NE site. Still hurts to sit sometimes, with that Lombardi trophy up there.
Good to know my plans, formulated around week 15, have come to fruition. So far.
:: Bobman — 1/14/2007 @ 11:04 pm
55
Don’t you mean what the Hell? (it is a proper place name, no? It’s alternate NFL name is Detroit.)
:: Bobman — 1/14/2007 @ 11:06 pm
#55
You never saw Orr play, did you?
:: Otis Taylor '89 — 1/14/2007 @ 11:06 pm
Except for those situations in which Manning is better than Brady, Brady is clearly better than Manning. And vice versa.
:: young curmudgeon — 1/14/2007 @ 11:07 pm
I’m an Altoon Bombers fan and I think Tom Brady suck.
I’m an Harrisburg Community College Hornets fan and I think Peyton Manning blows chunks.
:: Buck Naked — 1/14/2007 @ 11:08 pm
60: Well, our last excuse was going to be “Manning may have won, but he didn’t have to face the Patriots in the playoffs.” Unfortunately, we lost that one. I think we’ll have to say it was only because of Vinitieri.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 11:09 pm
Re: 62
Nope. Neither did my friend from Providence.
:: CA — 1/14/2007 @ 11:13 pm
One area of this discussion that isn’t silly is “does Peyton call the game veyr well.” I, along with a large number of colts fans feel that sometimes he stubornly goes with “what the other team is giving you” rather than sometimes saying “to hell with it time to go to our strength” and throw Reggie or Marvin the damn ball! He often forces it to Clark or Morehead, or runs it again and again in the face of a situation where perhaps throwing it deep might be the right call. I don’t know how much input Tom Brady has in the playcalling for the Pats, but I do believe it significanly less than Manning has in calling the Colts plays.
Whether this qualifies as evidence for the greatness of Peyton Manning or just points out a significant difference in their games I don’t know.
Interestingly the last two Quarterbacks I can remember who ran primarily no huddle attacks and called their own plays never won a superbowl either. (Boom Esiasion and Jim Kelly) Does that mean something?
:: Don M — 1/14/2007 @ 11:15 pm
I’m gonna point this one out here. Both the Patriots and Colts were 5-5 in recovering fumbles this week. Obviously luck benefited them both. And they were able to capatilize on thier luck.
:: B — 1/14/2007 @ 11:15 pm
Whoah. Just whoah there. I don’t care about the Branning thing. But whoah.
Wayne Gretzky better than Bobby Orr?
This aggression will not stand, man.
I don’t mind you smoking the dope. That’s between you and your maker and the cops and your mother, if you’re in her basement. But it’s drinking the bongwater like you are that I object to. Just say no.
Wayne Gretz… oh jayzuz, I can’t write it again. It’s too absurd. Why, Bobby Orr was better than… Tom Brady, who is almost as good as… Troy Brown… who is way better than…
:: sippican — 1/14/2007 @ 11:16 pm
If Tom Brady had had Mike Vanderjact kicking field goals for him, this wouldn’t even be an issue (and no, I don’t just mean Pittsburg last year). No one remembers Brady’s terrible INT that let the Panthers back in the superbowl, because the KO went OB and Vinitieri is the baddest man alive.
:: Nate Dunlevy — 1/14/2007 @ 11:25 pm
Brady supporters don’t have a leg to stand on [i]except for three superbowl victories.[/i]
That’s why both are great quarterbacks. Manning’s been the best in the regular season, Brady has bigger wins, and both are obviously very good.
:: Count — 1/14/2007 @ 11:26 pm
I don’t think Brady is that good. Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney would make any quarterback look like a star.
:: hector — 1/14/2007 @ 11:27 pm
i gotta say, watching their regular season matchup, Manning was the better QB. however, there’s absolutely no one i’d rather have on my team over Brady down a TD with 5 minutes left in the game. Call it luck, call it flukey, i don’t care. he’s 12-1 in the playoffs, and he usually makes the most of his second (and third) chances.
:: Scott — 1/14/2007 @ 11:27 pm
Oh please, not again. I can’t take the Brady-Manning debate ever again.
I’m happy about the Colts still being alive but this whole discussion is dead to me.
:: Scott P. — 1/14/2007 @ 11:29 pm
Peyton Manning is the best quarterback to ever play the game.
:: BCBSUCKS — 1/14/2007 @ 11:58 pm
Tom Brady is so crafty even his interceptions get fumbled into first downs. Now that’s what I call moxie.
:: Joe — 1/15/2007 @ 12:06 am
And, if Manning wins the Super Bowl this year, this argument is permanently settled in his favor among all but the most strident of New England homers
And in other news, if pigs fly, Newton’s Law of Universal Gravitation will have been permanently disproved.
:: Scott de B. — 1/15/2007 @ 12:12 am
Oh dear lord this is sickening. Is there any way we can have them both lose? Can we have Brett Favre come in in the last two minutes and beat both teams with his magical power of clutch? We can have Derek Jeter and Robert Horry be his wide receivers to max out the intangibles! Pretty please?
:: Matt — 1/15/2007 @ 12:27 am
Depends on what you want. You can choose a qb that can make several clutch plays in any situation in the playoffs, or you can choose manning and enjoy the regular season
:: Hudson3010 — 1/15/2007 @ 12:46 am
If you HAD to pick either Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to be your dad, who would you pick, and why?
:: Biffy — 1/15/2007 @ 12:47 am
Peyton Manning is better, because Tom Brady had Bill Belichick and Adam Vinateri, while Peyton had Tony Dungy and Mike Vanderjagt. Clearly the next step in Bill Polian’s plan to win the Super Bowl is to kidnap and brainwash Bill Belichick into coaching the Colts. Someone warn Patriots security.
Peyton Manning is also better because his coach doesn’t look like a homeless guy.
Seriously though, “Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are tied for the title of best quarterback in football” is nonsense. You’re saying Drew Brees wouldn’t absolutely dwarf Peyton’s stats if he had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark to throw to? Even so, Drew Brees has a better postseason winning percentage than Peyton. Also, Drew Brees has yet to be shutout in the postseason when playing against a team QBed by Chad Pennington, and he has won more games against the Broncos than Tom Brady.
[Full disclaimer: Actually an Eagles fan and I don’t really take any of what I just wrote seriously. Although I am curious what sort of statistics Brees would have with the Colts receiving group.]
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 12:50 am
59:
Kickers are a myth.
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 12:53 am
80
Manning, because it would make me a future #1 pick
:: Lou — 1/15/2007 @ 12:55 am
55:
“And, if Manning wins the Super Bowl this year, this argument is permanently settled in his favor among all but the most strident of New England homers”
Trophies. Count ‘em.
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 12:56 am
83:
Great answer!
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 12:57 am
Donovan McNabb and Matt Hasselbeck are better than Brady and Manning because they have more endorsement deals with Chunky Soup.
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 12:59 am
Peyton Manning has better commercials.
:: MAW — 1/15/2007 @ 1:00 am
McNabb and Hasselbeck also threw less interceptions combined this weekend than either one of them.
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 1:02 am
Reverting to old-style stats for the moment - Grossman had a higher passer rating than either Brady or Manning this weekend, and Gaffney and Caldwell were first and second in receptions overall. Obviously an all-Gator attack would be irresistable (and Manning never beat UF, you’ll recall.) Now, you may natter on about sample size, and how every QB except Garcia and Brees sucked and so forth - you may even go so far as to suggest that college performance has no bearing on a pro rivalry - but your arguments shall not sway me… because this is the thread where rationality goes to die! [cue maniacal laughter]
:: peachy — 1/15/2007 @ 1:15 am
It comes basically down to one thing, the number of fingers that hold the bling and ice…Brady-3 Manning-0
:: Mannie Fresh — 1/15/2007 @ 1:21 am
This is exactly what I wanted to see at the top of the page when I clicked on Football Outsiders tonight. This gladdens my heart and warms my cockles.
Oh, and I want Steven Gostkowski to kick the game winning 51-yard field goal as time runs out, so that people will realize that Vinatieri’s “clutch” kicking was merely an extension of Brady’s clutch aura, and that all Patriots kickers will carry from henceforth onwards, for all time, or until Brady sees fit to remove it.
:: Basilicus — 1/15/2007 @ 1:26 am
I would give anything to have Gostkowski miss a 20 yard FG with the game on the line.
Anything.
:: Ralph — 1/15/2007 @ 1:28 am
Here’s a fun topic:
At what point do we start to address the fact that Carson Palmer may be better than Brady at this point. He has outplayed Brady each of the last two seasons and may well continue to do so.
(In keeping with the general tone of this thread please try and incorporate some form of the “Once all Palmer’s teammates get arrested” joke into your response).
:: D — 1/15/2007 @ 1:35 am
93:
Palmer’s teammates turn to a life of crime because they lose faith in society when they realize they will never be as great as Carson Palmer?
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 1:51 am
Manning has far more tackles than Brady and therefore is better.
:: kal — 1/15/2007 @ 1:51 am
Okay, I know most of them were arrested for DUI, but are they driven to drink and drunk to drive because they’re confidence is destroyed by Palmer’s awesome greatness?
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 1:53 am
95:
Brady puts his teammates on the offense in a better position to make tackles, while Peyton tries to get all the glory for himself.
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 1:55 am
I don’t think it’s that meaningful to compare the quarterbacks - football is such a team sport and coaching staff play a very important role. With that said, Tom Brady certainly appears to be calmer in critical situations - some of this will certainly come from the learnings of the coaches and his teammates.
For the SD-NE game, I was astonished by some of the play calls from the SD coaches. Let’s hope that the better team wins next week, and that Indy coaches don’t like idiots when compared to the NE coaches.
:: MC — 1/15/2007 @ 1:59 am
I refer you all to my Dodgeball arguement back from Manning-Brady arguement thread II.
For those of you that missed it (re:ALL OF YOU), ctrl+f ‘dodgeball’ on that thread. You’ll find it. Me? I’m too lazy. It’s comment #195 or something like that…
Anyway, Crunchy Peanut Butter.
:: ZS — 1/15/2007 @ 2:07 am
WAIT SHIT I MEAN SMOOTH
:: ZS — 1/15/2007 @ 2:08 am
78 — I’m totally with you. Best case scenario: On Friday, Manning/Brady both come down with severe cases of the flu, and they are hospitalized, but expected to recover fully. Dungy immediately announces Sorgi as his starter. Belichick refuses to announce Vinny or Cassell. At game time, Colts get the opening kickoff, and Sorgi goes three and out. Pats receive the punt. Troy Brown goes in at QB and runs the fly option for the whole game. Then, just before the 4th quarter two minute warning, Shawne Merriman parachutes onto the fifty yard line with a needle sticking out of his butt. The collective shrug and lack of reaction from the crowd, spectators and journalists alike, causes Jim Nantz to poke his own eye out, forcing CBS to chopper Gus Johnson in as a replacement for overtime… Again, this is a best case scenario…
:: David A. — 1/15/2007 @ 2:08 am
80: Answering my own question now that everyone has had time to think about it. (So sad.)
I believe that Manning’s on-screen endorser personality would make a better dad than Brady’s. Manning comes off as cocky, but self-deprecating and able to laugh at himself.
I haven’t gotten the idea that Brady ever laughs at himself, even if directed to do so by a script. Maybe he should do more ads or something. Unless people don’t want to see him. Which they probably don’t. In spite of being a WINNER, he just has an asshole vibe (to me anyway).
Who’s a better QB? Is THAT what this thread is really about? I don’t think so.
And #83, yes, the future #1 pick status is not to be overlooked.
:: Biffy — 1/15/2007 @ 2:11 am
Wait, hasn’t Mart-EEN Grammatica played on the same team as both Brady AND Manning this season? Let’s ask him.
:: ZS — 1/15/2007 @ 2:11 am
101 - Could Merriman carry Barry Bonds around on his shoulders while Barry sings “Poor Poor Pitiful Me”? That would be an even better case for me.
Also, I’d like to have the game decided by Manning Vs Brady facing off in an Iron Chef duel. Battle Ham!
:: Biffy — 1/15/2007 @ 2:16 am
#54
Yep. I laughed out loud when Boomer said that.
:: Jake — 1/15/2007 @ 2:20 am
101:
One problem with your theory; at that point Gus Johnson will have spent at least two weeks doing college basketball, so he won’t have time to remove his conditioning.
“Troy Brown runs left, makes a move on his man, and puts it up for three — AND THE FOUL!”
:: NF — 1/15/2007 @ 2:21 am
#101:
Brady would come down with the flu. Peyton would refuse to play after Dungy gets fired for introducing them to Rock N Roll.
:: ZS — 1/15/2007 @ 2:26 am
re: 89
So THAT’S Belichick’s crafty plan to defeat Manning - filling his roster with former UF players. Clutch, and all that.
:: Jeremiah — 1/15/2007 @ 2:54 am
106 — He’s ballin’.
:: David A. — 1/15/2007 @ 2:58 am
Brady’s better.
Yeah, Eli got drafted #1 overall because he’s Peyton’s brother, but Brady Quinn is about to get taken #1 overall cos he’s got a name that has “Brady” in it
That is the embodiment of clutchness
:: Sean — 1/15/2007 @ 3:04 am
cant resist
:: Alex DL — 1/15/2007 @ 3:08 am
genuflect +100
:: Alex DL — 1/15/2007 @ 3:08 am
#72 wins.
:: Jeremy — 1/15/2007 @ 3:26 am
That was a clutch post by #72 Hector. Bobman and a few others may have had more posts during in regular threads, but Hector clearly gets things done during the threads that matter.
:: Randy S. — 1/15/2007 @ 4:04 am
The Colts will win the Superbowl when new head coach Jon Gruden calls Tee Martin to quit his job at BK and play for Indy. Until then, they are stuck with their post season chokers.
:: BrockVegas — 1/15/2007 @ 7:24 am
Brady is clearly the better player.
For the season Brady Poppinga has 44 tackles, 1 pick, 1 sack and two forced fumbles, while Roy Manning couldn’t even get on the starting lineup for the Bills and had precisely zero tackles, sacks, picks and forced fumbles for the season.
Though admittedly Manning does have many intagibles that aren’t readily observed using conventional stats.
:: Neil — 1/15/2007 @ 7:32 am
55:
Problem is, even if Peyton wins one, Brady won three. And Number of Super Bowl Victories is the only metric by which we measure Quarterbacks. All time rankings:
Bart Starr (3 NFL championships, 2 SB’s)
Terry Bradshaw (4)
Joe Montana (4)
Tom Brady (3)
rounding out the bottom:
Trent Dilfer (1)
Jeff Hostetler (1)
Jim Kelly (0, but at least he got his team there!)
Peyton Manning (0)
:: billsfan — 1/15/2007 @ 7:34 am
Sean Salisbury on ESPN on the SD-NE game said that Brady’s performance shows why he is the greatest clutch QB ever.
Obviously, Brady’s ability to turn grown men into mindless, blithering idiots is a power never before seen.
In fact, Brady may be responsible for the fact that every pro football commentator on ESPN has been reduced to a moron. With that kind of power, it is clear that Brady’s greatness transcends the sport. This isn’t about mere quarterbacking. This is about mind control.
Tom Brady, the ultimate Jedi Knight, has made fiction real. Quarterback?! Don’t talk about Quarterbacks! We’re talking the power to bend minds to his will!
:: stan — 1/15/2007 @ 7:38 am
I think Aaron Broooks is the better quarterbak here.
:: Kyle W — 1/15/2007 @ 7:44 am
116: Presumably Dan Marino sits just below Jim Kelly, and Ryan Leaf ranks just above Peyton Manning (being tied on number of Superbowls, the tie-breaker appears to be alphabetical order of surname).20: Actually, although it hasn’t made the TV coverage (the perils of a small market team) David Garrard has thrown more interceptions before breakfast than Manning and Brady have managed combined throughout the offseason. In fact, Donovin Darius’ has ditched the work he used to do with a Juggs machine from his training regime - nowadays he just practices near Garrard because he prefers the feel of a real interception. Seriously, though, I understand DG is seriously working to improve that aspect of the game over the offseason - he’s been putting in a lot of time working to build up a relationship with his #1 receiver, Adam Jones.
:: iapetus — 1/15/2007 @ 7:48 am
110
I concede the argument to you.
Poll on espn has the question:
Which QB would you rather have-PM or TB
Brady currently has 65% of the vote. 65. Sportsnation says this isnt even an argument
:: Lou — 1/15/2007 @ 7:56 am
No love for Charlie Frye in this thread?
:: Abarine — 1/15/2007 @ 7:59 am
I forgot to mention that Brady has never won a game. The other team just keeps beating themselves.
:: BrockVegas — 1/15/2007 @ 8:04 am
Tom Brady has a huge advantage with Bellicheck and the Patriots defense. The Pats defense can actually stop the run, occasionally.
Peyton Manning has a huge advantage with a consistent Offensive Line, consistent Offensive Coaches, and consistent Wide Receivers. Offenses seem to thrive more on consistent (good) players and coaches (more team-oriented except possibly running backs), while Defenses seem more able to adapt quickly (more individual-oriented positions?).
Both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have not been playing their best ball recently, but they are certainly among the best playing right now. I have to agree with the person who suggested ignoring trophies for determining the best (Marino and Manning vs. Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, and Trent Dilfer).
Speaking of those QBs who managed not to lose games… is this the year for Rex Grossman, the worst of the remaining QBs, to not lose the Championship and to not lose the Super Bowl?
:: Pete — 1/15/2007 @ 8:22 am
Brady is a better QB because, after getting drunk on seven bottles of Syrian Panther Sweat and pleasuring four Thai hookers (plus one pegboy), he saved a group of kids from a burning orphanage and still had enough energy to throw four touchdowns against the Jets later that afternoon.
:: Harris — 1/15/2007 @ 8:23 am
Blah Blah Blah
Favre!
:: MCS — 1/15/2007 @ 8:32 am
Sure Brady got lucky with the 4th down pick/fumble. No doubt about it. Be he also hit Reche Caldwell down the sideline for 49 yards on the same drive.
So far, Peyton Manning has laid two turds in the playoffs this year, while Brady had a great game against the Jets followed by a half-turd/half-great game against the Chargers.
I don’t see much new information here. Two unrelated points: we again see people jumping on the “luck” bandwagon by noting that the Pats recovered all five of the loose balls. Guys, just how much of a fumble recovery differential are you going to see before you concede the point that recovering fumbles is not equivalent to tossing an equally weighted coin?
In any case, the first two fumbles by Chargers were ruled “incompletions” by the refs.
I think the Vinatieri/Gostkowski thread might be a bit fresher right now. Did anybody else notice that Gostkowski already has the Pats’ record for longest playoff FG? I would not trust AV with a 50-yarder at this point in his career. (Yeah, he hit one against the Ravens, but he hadn’t hit one that long since 2002 before then.)
:: Rick — 1/15/2007 @ 8:33 am
The other day on FO, someone described the Colts receivers as “good.” A few comments up I read that they’re “consistent.”
This is why I come here. For the comedy.
:: sippican — 1/15/2007 @ 8:46 am
Peyton Manning is better because I don’t want to punch him in the face. Seriously though, everytime I see tom Brady make that grin I lose all ability to think rationally and de evolve into “punch quaterback in the face” mode.
:: Podpeople — 1/15/2007 @ 8:47 am
Brady is better because he inspires more jealousy. Maybe Manning will introduce Patriot fans to that emotion next Sunday but I doubt it.
:: mikeabbott — 1/15/2007 @ 8:52 am
Peyton is better because he saves all his interceptions for the post season, which is when they really count.
:: Podpeople — 1/15/2007 @ 9:04 am
Those of you who are saying or thinking ‘Enough of this shiat, can’t they both lose?’ should be rooting for Manning. Brady has already won, the only way this ends is if Manning wins one.
Or I suppose either one could have a career-ending injury or something. Maybe just root for that.
I’m rooting for Manning.
:: Kami — 1/15/2007 @ 9:29 am
Brady throws a pass that’s hard to both intercept *and* run with. Troy Brown remembered this so the game-changing fumble was easy pickings (If Brown makes one big play next weekend Peter King will start the misguided HOF talk). Most QBs, they just get picked there and the game essentially ends (and TMQ scribbles down “Game Over” in his notebook).
:: rodriguez — 1/15/2007 @ 9:33 am
#126
Actually, before the Ravens game the last time AV hit a 50 yarder was the previous week against KC.
Also, the Colts had the same luck in recovering fumbles - so we can throw that point out.
I have read that FO says recovering fumbles is pure luck, but I feel like there has to be some difference based on where the fumbles happen. I have a feeling that a QB sack/fumble is more often recovered by the D. Or a fumble in the secondary is more often recovered by the D. Those are unfounded guesses though. Did the study of fumbles go into that much detail or just say that “overall fumbles are luck”?
:: yourmom — 1/15/2007 @ 9:37 am
The only logical way to decide this is for PM and TB to play one-on-one football like we all did with our best friend back in our younger days. And PM would be clearly better because his 1″ height advantage would swat any passes (aka, lobs) that TB would throw to himself and PM’s hockey mentality (how else do you explain that nose? many years of being a hockey goon, obviously) would punish any potential TB runs.
Clearly, PM is better.
I miss the innocence of my youth.
:: im_no_playa — 1/15/2007 @ 9:37 am
To compensate for my rational thoughts above . . .
Manning is losing on purpose because he wants to go out on top. If he were to win SBs now, he would have to retire before setting all passing records known to man. He will win his SBs right before retiring in an Elway-esque tour of glory.
:: yourmom — 1/15/2007 @ 9:41 am
sippican semi-indirect Colts fans are idiots post…check.
Colts fans are whiners post…check.
Cue Bill Polian and Tony Dungy will petition the NFL to change a rule in their favor prior to the AFCC game…in 3, 2, 1…
:: OMO — 1/15/2007 @ 9:45 am
133- Yes, there is difference on where the fumbles happen, yes they did study that.
The main point of ‘fumble recoveries are luck’ isn’t so much that, but that it’s not predictive of future success so it’s kinda worthless as a statistic. A team that recovers 75% of the fumbles one game, whether skill was involved or otherwise, is probably going to be closer to 50% in any future game than 75% again.
:: Kami — 1/15/2007 @ 9:47 am
Brady has the better stats:
Career stats:
Peyton- G:11 C:238 A:390 Pct:61% Yrds:2899 TD:16 Int:13
Brady- G:13 C:274 A:452 Pct:61% Yrds:2985 TD:19 Inc:8
Clearly Brady is better especially when you consider superbowls.
:: bsr — 1/15/2007 @ 9:48 am
Brady is tooooo pretty to be a good QB.
Manning’s homely looks help’s him focus on excellence.
:: Sheldon — 1/15/2007 @ 9:50 am
#139
I think that gives the advantage to Brady. He just falls out of bed dead sexy. Manning has to spend hours to apply fake hair, moustache, and neck for his commercials. All this time could be dedicated to studying game film.
:: yourmom — 1/15/2007 @ 9:55 am
And yay though I looked forth upon a fearsome Seahawks pass rush did I thusly fling the ball at a great velocity until it was delivered into the grace of Bernard Berrian, thus crushing our foes and driving them mercilessly before us…hahaha guys, just kidding. Ol’ Rex here. I saw you gusy were having a “best QB” debate. Puh-leeze. I just wanted to check in, you know, as proud owner of the 3rd best passing efficiency rating EVER in the SEC. That’s right, the best conference in college football. Peyton and Brady might throw crucial interceptions in the playoffs, but what about me? I consistently threw key interceptions and fumbled the ball away all season. Hello, 34 passing yards against the Vikings? A 0.0 passer rating against the Pack at home to end the season (actually I tanked that one so my hero Old Man Farve could haul his creaky bones out as a winner)? Could any other QB have embarrassed himself so thoroughly by accounting for 6 turnovers against the Cardinals on national TV? I think not. So you guys can argue about statistics and Super Bowls all you want, but you know you’re just ignoring what really matters; Florida Gators, national champions of NCAA Division I-A college football. Michigan? Uh, they got devoured by USC even though they had some scrub at QB while I was busy DESTROYING Matt Leinart on Monday Night Football. Tennessee? They got beat by freaking Penn State with 386 year old Joe Paterno in the Outback Bowl. It’s too bad Peyton wasn’t there to choke at a crucial moment; I bet he’d piss his pants if he had to go up against me and the Ol’ Ball Coach.
That’s right, Rex Grossman. Best. QB. EVER. Deal with it and don’t come crying to me after I DESTROY you.
:: rex grossman — 1/15/2007 @ 9:56 am
if you had both Manning and Brady on your roster, which one would you trade? Would you trade them both for ROBO-PUNTER?
:: Grouchy Bills Fan — 1/15/2007 @ 10:16 am
Forgive me for trying to introduce a little rationality to the debate.
Just a little more fuel for the debate.
M=Manning
B=Brady
2006 DPAR, DVOA
M: 175 rank 1, 58% rank 1
B: 75.9 rank 6, 19.6% rank 11
2005 DPAR, DVOA
M: 112.5 rank 1, 41.7% rank 1
B: 104 rank 3, 30.9% rank 4
2004 DPAR, DVOA
M: 170.1 rank 1, 62.8% rank 1
B: 113.4 rank 3, 41.6% rank 2
2003 DPAR, DVOA
M: 125.7 rank 1, 35.6% rank 2
B: 44.2 rank 10, 5.6% rank 10
2002 DPAR, DVOA
M: 80.6 rank 4, 17% rank 11
B: 54.2 rank 14, 6.8% rank 19
2001 DPAR, DVOA
M: 55.4 rank 6, 9% rank 6
B: 24.8 rank 15, -0.4% rank 17
2000 DPAR, DVOA
M: 125 rank 1, 36.8% rank 3
B: N/A, N/A
:: MCS — 1/15/2007 @ 10:25 am
Re: 127
The real comedy is seeing Colts fans put on airs of sophisticated objectivity and then watch them pull all the same crap they like to bash those reprobate Pats yahoo homers for (downplay the skills of other people on the team, give Manning the credit when they win while blaming the rest of the team when they lose, attributing magic powers to Manning, etc.)
Comedy gold, I tell ya…
:: PatsFan — 1/15/2007 @ 10:29 am
Re: #136
Whiny OMO post complaining about whiny Pats fans…check!
:)
:: PatsFan — 1/15/2007 @ 10:30 am
Ok isn’t the real question whether jeff garcia should replace donovan mcnabb???? or whether rex grossman should replace rex grossman? Or whether or not that homeless guy o new englands sidelines will ever stop wining? duh.
:: Podpeople — 1/15/2007 @ 10:30 am
Here’s a question, without the idiotic officiating in the tuck rule game and/or the Pats d-backs openly cheating in the AFC title game, is there even a debate between Manning/Brady? I’m not trying to take back-to-back 17-2 seasons away from him, but at what point do you have to factor in the unbelievable breaks the Pats have had during their run?
:: Peter — 1/15/2007 @ 10:32 am
One more…
Colts fans complaining about this morning’s MMQB… check coming :)
(Actually, I don’t blame you. PK is way over the top this morning).
:: PatsFan — 1/15/2007 @ 10:33 am
I think Tom Brady, upon retirement, should resurrect the Bull Moose party and run for president. In the landslide election that follows, he should install Scott Pioli as Secretary of State, and Rodney Harrison as Secretary of Defense. Bill Belichick for VP, Tedy Bruschi as Secretary of Health and Human Services, and Adam Vinatieri as Secretary and Steven Gostkowski as under-secretary Emergency Management.
Peyton Manning will be Secretary of Pooping Himself.
Out of spite, Manning will defect to Communist China, where he proceeds to lead them far in the war against American oppression, until his navy is intercepted by Admiral Ty Law on the flagship USS Steve Grogan. Communist China will crumble, surrendering to invading forces quickly. Manning will be captured, blaming this on the inability of his front line to protect him. Brady, being a godly sort, will forgive Manning his past sins, and re-install him as Secretary of Pooping Himself, wherein Manning shall day-in, day-out do the best job of pooping himself that this country has ever seen.
:: Basilicus — 1/15/2007 @ 10:39 am
re 143 - not to be too serious here, but DVOA and DPAR doesn’t measure who’s the better QB, B or M. It measures who has the better passing attack, IND or NE.
I don’t think even the most ridiculous NE fan would dispute that IND has had the better passing attack all the years Manning and Harrison’s been together.
The usual argument seems to be more like, “if Brady and Manning had identical teams, who would be best”.
:: Malene, cph — 1/15/2007 @ 10:42 am
Sportscenter just explained why Brady sucked so hard for 3 1/2 quarters. Apparently Tom Brady wins games by being put in awful situations and being Mr Super clutch.
:: Podpeople — 1/15/2007 @ 10:43 am
#2,159: Are you kidding? Brady’s eyeblack is way better than Manning’s fake mustache.
:: DGL — 1/15/2007 @ 10:44 am
If Brady doesn’t feel like he’s considered the best QB, he openly tanks the first 3 quarters so that he can continue being Mr Super clutch.
:: Nathan — 1/15/2007 @ 10:47 am
re: 144:
The real comedy is seeing Pats fans not even bothering to put on airs of sophisticated objectivity (’cause honestly, what’s the point) and crapping all over thier receiver corps because to admit that these guys are actually pretty good interferes with thier infantile “All Pats success must be laid reverently at the feet of Brady” world-view…
:: DaveO — 1/15/2007 @ 10:47 am
150:
Tie, because Brady and Manning would then be the same person.
:: billsfan — 1/15/2007 @ 10:48 am
Enough of all this worthless debate. Lets get down to what really matters. Whenever there are men and group showers, there is only question. Who would you rather shower with?
I think it has to be Manning. Brady’s sexiness would cause self-esteem problems and possibly turn me on.
Also, as Family Guy has shown, Brady doesn’t want you to jump into a private shower with him. Given that Mannning is such a team player, I think he’d be cool with it.
:: yourmom — 1/15/2007 @ 10:48 am
The level of discourse on this thread is dangerously high. Brady clearly inspires his teammates to play better. Minus Brady the Patriots would be blown out by the Florida Gators (unless Brady was injured and on the sidelines in crutches in which case he would continue to be an inspiration).
Manning, on the other hand, is too busy filming commercials to inspire his teammates. He is good at throwing the ball and that is all.
Sunday, finally, the debate should be settled for good. Manning will try but once again be found wanting as a human being.
:: BD — 1/15/2007 @ 10:54 am
Whew! Checked it yesterday and it was only up to 15 or so posts. Unbelievable…
BTW, yay! to WordPress errors on other threads. I blaim you, and only you.
:: Sergio — 1/15/2007 @ 10:54 am
Yes! OMO gets it. Me continually pointing out that Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are the two finest wide receivers in the league, and Marvin Harrison might be the finest receiver that ever lived, makes me a … wait for it… Pats homer!
Of course, I went and doubled down on my Pats homerism by pointing out two weeks ago that Colts fans had lost their minds here by calling for Dungy’s head, because they can’t seem to understand that when Reggie Wayne gets Larry Tripplet’s and David Thornton’s money, and you replace them with… Joseph Addai! … you better hope Tony Dungy is your coach.
As usual, your god screwed the pooch when it counted, and Tony Dungy saved his ass with a scout team defense.
I think you’re going to need more than five field goals next week. Just a thought.
:: sippican — 1/15/2007 @ 10:55 am
157:
Thanks for rectifying this, BD.
:: DaveO — 1/15/2007 @ 11:06 am
161:
I think we’re going to get more than five field goals next week. Just a thought.
:: DaveO — 1/15/2007 @ 11:07 am
I think we’re going to get more than five field goals next week. Just a thought.
Six field goals, then?
:: Scott de B. — 1/15/2007 @ 11:11 am
It’s a trick question: They don’t bury survivors!
:: pcs — 1/15/2007 @ 11:15 am
Antwaan Randle El is a better QB than either Manning or Brady because he has a higher passer rating in the Super Bowl.
:: Yaxley — 1/15/2007 @ 11:15 am
Orange you glad I didn’t say banana?
The doctor was his mother!
Neither! The capital of Kentucky is Frankfort!
:: pcs — 1/15/2007 @ 11:20 am
I just went to the Indy Star homepage. I figured they’d have a picture of the greatest QB, in their humble opinion, right on the front page.
See for yourself.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage
:: sippican — 1/15/2007 @ 11:27 am
Re: 127
Vinatieri has hit 50+ yard field goals 2 weeks in a row now.
:: turbohappy — 1/15/2007 @ 11:28 am
161:
Any time, bro.
Although 165’s Antwan Randle El argument is compelling. I may have to reconsider this debate more closely.
:: BD — 1/15/2007 @ 11:28 am
I think we all can agree that WordPress sux.
:: MCS — 1/15/2007 @ 11:49 am
Tom Brady has 8 letters in his name, Peyton Manning has 13 letters in his name, therefore Manning is exactly 1 and 5/8ths times better than Brady.
Later on Joe Buck will explain whether Manning is more or less than 1 and a half times as good as Brady.
:: Kyle W — 1/15/2007 @ 12:02 pm
I think Kyle wins the thread (for now).
:: PatsFan — 1/15/2007 @ 12:12 pm
157:
It doesn’t matter who you would rather shower with. Jeff Garcia would rather shower with you.
:: billsfan — 1/15/2007 @ 12:15 pm
Well, Archie determined Peyton’s fate from day one. Note that Peyton has the classic 2-syllable first and last name, which properly fits the most popular cheer format:
blah-blah blah-blah, clap, clap, clap-clap-calp.
Thus:
Pey-ton Man-ning, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap
Can’t do that with Tom Brady — don’t even try to stretch “Tom” into 2 syllables.
So obviously Brady’s parents didn’t want him to succeed. Peyton being better than Tom is completely the responsibility of their respective parents.
:: im_no_playa — 1/15/2007 @ 12:18 pm
167:
Uh, OK…
:: DaveO — 1/15/2007 @ 12:30 pm
143 - I wouldn’t trade both for ROBO-PUNTER. Just one. But deciding which one to trade is really difficult.
I hate Tom Brady and would love to see him rot on the sidelines while punts fly everywhere, but he’ll probably somehow get all the glory and another SNL spot or something. Besides, he really doesn’t need any more SB wins. Jerk. God I hate him.
Meanwhile, I’d rather watch Manning pick apart a defense than see him sit on the sidelines, and I like the guy and want him to succeed. But we all know you can’t beat ROBO-PUNTER.
Actually, I think I’d keep both. Manning as starting QB to get his SB, and Brady as the holder.
:: Randy S. — 1/15/2007 @ 12:36 pm
The debate has changed — now it’s more like, who’s looked crappier, Manning or Brady?
Manning did nothing Saturday, but at least he didn’t kill his team. Brady got bailed out by Troy Brown, otherwise he’d be playing golf. Brady had a — drumroll — 8.9 rating going well into the game.
8.9 rating.
At least they’re not Carson Palmer, though, the king of overrated chokers.
:: Old Whippersnapper — 1/15/2007 @ 12:59 pm
From the Indianapolis Star article:
Because Brady, who was harassed all day by San Diego’s defense, is still the greatest big-game, big-moment quarterback since Joe Montana.
We “Pats homers” cannot rest, until we convince the Indianapolis Colts fans and media that Tom Brady really isn’t all that good.
But you guys won’t listen. You guys should go down to the paper’s office in a mob with pitchforks and torches and make that guy stop writing stuff like that.
You’re in Indiana. You’ve got plenty of pitchforks and torches don’t you?
:: sippican — 1/15/2007 @ 1:11 pm
YOu Colt’s fans are so out to lunch. Manning’s nickname insn’t “Mr. October” for nothing. Let’s look at the stat’s since thats all you like to talk about. In the playoff’s including this weekend:
Mr. October
238/390 for 2899 YDS, 16 TD 13 INT 83.70 Rating and Won 5 & Lost 6 - 0 SB Wins
Brady
274/452 for 2985 YDS 19 TD 8 INT 86.75 Rating and Won 12 & Lost 1 - 3 SB Wins
Yes the stats clearly indicate Manning’s “superiority”. Oh and remember, in the playoffs you play the BEST teams.
:: buckkalu — 1/15/2007 @ 1:26 pm
Manning/Brady. Brady/Manning. They’re both so damn good its absurd. In the past Brady has always had the better defense supporting him. Plus an ice-in-the-veins placekicker to win games in the end. Manning has needed to be superhuman win the big ones and that’s hard to do every week.
So look at it this way. Put either one of these guys on San Diego, Seattle, or Baltimore and they win this weekend. Put either on Chicago and the game’s a laugher.
Rant on!!!!
:: buckaluck — 1/15/2007 @ 1:53 pm
We “Pats homers� cannot rest, until we convince the Indianapolis Colts fans and media that Tom Brady really isn’t all that good.
I’d say Brady made a pretty good argument for that all by himself with the way he played on Sunday…
:: DaveO — 1/15/2007 @ 1:53 pm
Clearly everyone is looking at this wrong.
We can determine, once and for all, who is better by looking at it in political terms.
Peyton Manning is a married, hard working highly paid brand-name darling of the media who often performs at the height of his profession, with a specialty for bringing a vast array of options to the table each and every time he takes a snap and is often considered an offensive coordinator on the feild.
Tom Brady is an unmarried, hard working highly paid brand-name lesser darling of the media who often performs at the height of his profession, with a specialty for almost always making the plays needed to win and doing well in the playoffs.
As I’ve said this debate can be solved politically. In any political situation Manning, with his wife in tow to create the atmosphere of strong family values clearly wins out. Brady is recently splitsville with his model girlfriend, could be a model in his own right and has recently appealed to the common man by admitting that he does what the average guy does. But apart from good looks how does that bring in the female vote?
Brady did a series of commericals for a credit card company where he allowed his teammates and co-workers to hit on the model-actress portraying his, now ex-, model girlfriend. Hardly the good image of the family focused male that works in political circles.
On the other hand Manning in his credit card commercials is often seen cheering on the sterling work of the often unheralded minimum-wage folk. Don’t forget the fact that he’s a master of disguse and has a laser-rocket arm! All those play fantastically in the arena of public opinion.
So say it loud and say it proud! A Vote for Manning this Jan 21st is a Vote for Family and Support of the Common Man. A Vote for Brady is a Vote for Orange County Hippys who Date Models but Try to Act Like They’re Like You (also commie pinko loving something somethings)
:: Kevin — 1/15/2007 @ 1:54 pm
From the Indianapolis Star front page:
Familiar foe - Colts to face Brady, Patriots for AFC crown.
Reading between the lines you get…
Familiar foe -Coltstoface Brady, PatriotsforAFCcrown.Obviously Brady is better if the Indiapolis Star conceeds that Brady and the Pats own the AFC.
:: The MOOSE — 1/15/2007 @ 1:55 pm
We are better than Peyton Manning. Just look at the rings.
Mark Rypien, Jim McMahon, Jeff Hostetler, Phil Simms, Kurt Warner, and Joe Theismann agree with us that we are better than Manning. Just look at the rings.
:: Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson — 1/15/2007 @ 2:25 pm
100:
That was the first comment on this whole thread that cracked me up. I really don’t understand WHY I thought it was so funny, but I did.
:: DavidH — 1/15/2007 @ 2:27 pm
If Manning wins this time, he will clearly be the best QB — except to Pats’ fans . . . or anyone else who can remember the past seven years.
If Brady wins this time, everyone will complain about how he still gets no respect — especially Pats’ fans.
I think best case scenario for everyone is that Brady clearly outplays Manning and Colts still win, just so the Brady supporters are left relying on Tom’s superior statistical performance while the Peyton supporters can point to the scoreboard and say that winning counts for more.
:: Matt — 1/15/2007 @ 3:32 pm
#171: Joe Buck’s opinion is worthless in these matters. Seven letters? Do the Bucks even care about their children?
Anyway, resurrection of Dodgeball Arguement, v2.0 (From TB-PM II):
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/10/29/open-discussion/4466/#comment-180711
Let’s say the city of Indianapolis declared war on the entirety of New England, and all forces are diminished except Tom Brady for New England and Peyton Manning for Indianapolis. By a little known American law, they each get to choose any five people in a game of winner-take-all Dodgeball. The winner becomes supreme emperor of the entire triangle of Indy, Boston, and the northernmost tip of Maine. They must both pick another QB, a rockstar, an ESPN celebrity, an NFL center named Jeff, and one other person.
Peyton selects Eli, Magnus von Magnusson or whatever that world’s-strongest-man guy’s name is, Jeff Saturday, the mustached gent from the phone commercials (but not without careful consideration towards Johnny, who everyone agrees has the best arm in the neighborhood), and Slash from Velvet Revolver.
Brady selects Jeff Hartings, Drew Brees, the most recent Lumberjack Games champ, Chris Cornell from Audioslave, and, after unsuccessfully trying to pick Robo-Punter (ROBO PUNTER BOWS TO NONE. And he’s partial to Favre.), goes with Ugly Betty.
The game is 5-on-5, three balls. The rosters:
Team Manning: E. Manning on far right, Slash on right-center, Magnus on center, Saturday on left-center, Peyton on far left, mustached fellow sitting.
Team Brady: Hartings on far right, Brees on right-center, Brady on center, Ugly Betty on left-center, Lumberjack Guy on far left, Cornell sitting.
Eli, Brady, and Peyton get the balls first, but Eli throws too soon and hit Brady while in the neutral zone, so he’s out. Peyton throws a long ball and hits the Lumberjack and then richochets off of him and hits Brady, so they’re both out.
With all three balls on the Brady team, Hartings, Brees, and Betty all grab a ball. Hartings’ ball heads for Slash, but it bounce off his guitar (Why can’t Slash have a guitar? He’s Slash) and back into the hands of Hartings. Brees’ ball hits Magnus, so Magnus is out. Betty chucks hers at Jeff Saturday, who, with a career passer rating of 38.6, catches it, bringing Eli back in and putting Betty out.
So it’s Jeff Hartings (with a ball) and Drew Brees versus Slash, Saturday, and the Mannings with a ball for each Manning. Jeff Hartings tries his luck again at Slash, and this time hits the top hat. Slash is irritated, but called out by Walt F**king Coleman. 3-2.
Saturday, Peyton and Eli now have all the balls, and all go directly for Brees. Hartings, realizing who has the arm on their team, jumps in front of Brees, sacrificing himself for the sake of the team. Brees now has all three of the balls, but it’s 3 to 1. Summoning the insane crazy power of the city of New Orleans who REALLY NEED THIS, Brees chucks it at Saturday’s shoulder, hitting him, and it bounces into the air. Brees catches it, and Chris Cornell is in.
Brees and Cornell have all three balls, and throw two at the brothers Manning. Eli gets clonked by Cornell, but Peyton catches Brees’ throw, taking him out.
Brady in, Brees and Eli out. It’s Saturday-Peyton vs. Brady-Cornell. Just for dramatic tension’s sake, Cornell and Saturday mutually agree to remove each other.
Brady-Manning, just as you probably predicted at the beginning of reading this. They both go back, throw, and…
Brady’s down! Brady’s been hit! Team Peyton wins!
But wait.
Just as the referee goes to raise the arm of Peyton, a phone drops out. Holy shit. It’s the mustache guy. Team Peyton is disqualified for misrepresenation on the roster!
TEAM BRADY WINS! TEAM BRADY WINS! Tom Brady is your king, Indianapolis! Hail Emperor Brady!
:: ZS — 1/15/2007 @ 3:45 pm
I said it before, and I’ll probably say it again, but Brady is clearly the better quarterback because he has played with a shoulder injury for about 100 straight games now and is still lighting up the field.
When was the last time Manning was hurt? That jaw thing was like 5 years ago.
:: Not saying — 1/15/2007 @ 3:55 pm
First of all, NE is not a Dynasty. In their off year what did they do? Get shut out of the playoffs. To compare them to the 90s Cowboys is a Joke because the Cowboys dominated in those super bowls(read: they didn’t win every game by 3 or less) and on top of that they had different head coaches AND lost to the eventual Steve Young led 49ers in the NFC Championship. I should also mention I’m a Bills fan and it pains me terribly to praise Dallas. Now where were we?
Manning could be put on any team in the league and have an immediate impact. Say all you want about Brady