Here ya go… let the debate begin. Remember how I said that you couldn’t have both Fred Taylor and Jamal Lewis? Turns out you can’t have either one. Willie Parker is the third AFC running back. Antonio Cromartie couldn’t break the starting lineup in San Diego until Week 10, but he’s making the Pro Bowl. Good lineup construction there, Norvinator. Also, the NFC team contains 143 members of the Dallas Cowboys, including the equipment guy and the chick who sells beer on the loge level of the stadium.
posted
12-18-2007 at 4:00 PM by
Aaron Schatz
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No Fred Taylor this year. Probably his last chance:(
:: Al H — 12/18/2007 @ 4:03 pm
LOL! Chris Hanson is the LEADING vote-getter for AFC Punter, according to NFL.com.
Why don’t we just vote for Jason David, CC Brown, and Bubba Franks while we’re at it?
:: Yaguar — 12/18/2007 @ 4:09 pm
Favre, Donald Driver, Aaron Kampman, Al Harris. Hmmm. I agree with Favre and Kampman. I like Donald and he’s a fine player so ok. But Harris? Al has had at best a mediocre season. In fact, I think it would be fair to call it poor. And this goes beyond the Dallas debacle.
Three Packers players were named first alternates: left tackle Chad Clifton, linebacker Nick Barnett and cornerback Charles Woodson.
Clifton gets votes purely on his pass-blocking as his run-blocking is sub-par. Barnett was easily the Packers defensive MVP. And Woodson has been excellent to extraordinary. LeRoy Butler is the only Packer in recent memory who I can think of who rivals Woodson in innate football intelligence. He’s not fast, he’s not overly strong, he just ends up being where he is needed most almost every time. It’s as if he teleports himself to the proper spot an instant before his presence his required. At least once a game he makes a play where afterward the opposing player is looking around as if to say, “What was HE doing there?”
:: BadgerT1000 — 12/18/2007 @ 4:16 pm
#2
I’ll buy that. Throw in Ted Ginn Jr, Jason Freakin’ Allen and “Chicago QB” and I think we have the lot.
:: James, London — 12/18/2007 @ 4:17 pm
Biggest Pro Bowl snubs:
Marques Colston
Joe Thomas
I feel bad for Wes Welker, but the AFC receivers are so good that some great ones won’t make it.
:: Yaguar — 12/18/2007 @ 4:19 pm
I better atleast be getting a souvenir from Hawaii. You owe me one, Lofa!
:: AJ Feeley — 12/18/2007 @ 4:19 pm
Badger, call the Harris vote a lifetime achievement award. Do the same for Jason Taylor and Alan Faneca.
:: James, London — 12/18/2007 @ 4:20 pm
I was about to say I don’t have any qualms about the AFC roster, and then I noticed Ray Lewis made the team. And then I noticed Rashean Mathis didn’t. I don’t think there’s a better CB in the NFL this year.
:: dryheat — 12/18/2007 @ 4:22 pm
Willie Parker has negative DPAR after more than 300 carries.
Clearly, allowing the public to vote for the pro bowl yields about the same results as letting them vote for president.
:: Sam — 12/18/2007 @ 4:22 pm
7: Don’t sell Taylor short as a legitimate Pro Bowler this year. He’s got double-digit sacks already, even though he’s used in pass coverage more than other sack leaders. He has one of his customary pick-sixes. He blocks field goals, too, an underrated skill that doesn’t get brought up much.
:: Yaguar — 12/18/2007 @ 4:24 pm
Do people really think TJ Houshmenzadeh is a better receiver than Chad Johnson? I officially hate fantasy football.
:: Sam — 12/18/2007 @ 4:25 pm
9: Click my name for the nfl.com summary of fan voting. It’s kind of scary. Dwight Freeney was the leading vote-getter of all defensive players. I like the guy, but that’s just stupid. Other voting leaders included Roy Williams (DAL) and Tedy Bruschi, and the aforementioned Chris Hanson.
It’s really depressing to me.
:: Yaguar — 12/18/2007 @ 4:29 pm
I don’t have strong opinion about the Pro Bowl selections, because unless you watch about nine games a week, it is hard to assess who is deserving. I’m pretty darn sure, however, that although Darren Sharper is still a productive player, he doesn’t belong. On the other hand, E.J. Henderson was really dominant this year, although I don’t mean to say that I know he was better than Tatupu.
Kleinssasser probably doesn’t belong, but if he doesn’t, it is because no blocking tight end should ever go, because he pounded people, including defensive ends, into mulch this year.
:: Will Allen — 12/18/2007 @ 4:29 pm
10: Yeah, and given that the rest of the defense is awful (and he’s likely getting double-teamed), I’d say he’s having a great year.
Nice job with the special teams (yay, Andy Lee!), but I’d like to have seen Moorman over Lechler.
And wow, Sean Taylor is the starting free safety. I expect they’ll do a tribute of sorts at the game.
:: patriotsgirl — 12/18/2007 @ 4:29 pm
Yaguar, I defer to no-one in my admiration for Jason Taylor, and I think he’s a legitimate HoF candidate. However, I’ve seen a number of Miami games this year, and frankly he was underwhelming in most of them.
I’m pleased he got another Pro Bowl nomination, but I guess I’m just suprised that there wasn’t another DE who was consider to be having a better year.
:: James, London — 12/18/2007 @ 4:34 pm
12: And they can’t even spell Peyton’s name right (on the chart). Sheesh.
Am I a grinch for thinking that there’s no way Peterson should start over Westbrook? (I’m sure the fan votes helped tip the balance, there.)
:: patriotsgirl — 12/18/2007 @ 4:36 pm
I just find it strange that the Seahawks have 4 defensive starts. Sort of a switch for them. Too bad they couldn’t stop Matt Moore. (They may have contained him, however.)
:: citizen jason — 12/18/2007 @ 4:38 pm
15: I wouldn’t be surprised if he disappeared some days, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was sometimes his fault. I certainly don’t mean to say Taylor was absolutely a top-3 defensive end in the AFC this year. I’m just saying it wasn’t a bad pick, especially with the knowledge that older studs often get a boost for reputation.
If you saw the Ravens game, he had 2 sacks and a key blocked field goal. The guy can still singlehandedly win games.
:: Yaguar — 12/18/2007 @ 4:38 pm
If Sean Taylor is the starting safety … won’t they just keep passing to his side of the field?
It doesn’t seem fair.
:: Phil Simms — 12/18/2007 @ 4:39 pm
The NFC North really dominates the defensive selections. Although, I don’t think Patrick Willis deserves to go, I’m sure he’s had a nice season, but he’s part of the 2nd worst defense in the NFL, 28th worst against the run and by far worst pass defense against TEs. I think 3 of the middle linebackers in the NFC North deserve to get in before him.
Also, I think there should be more pro bowl players. There are 3 running backs and 3 quarterbacks, so that sets the standard that it should be 3 times the number of starters on the average team. So, I want 3 fullbacks, 6 receivers, 3 TEs, 6 Tackles, 6 Guards, 3 centers, well I’m sure you get the idea.
I also wonder if we shouldn’t get rid of inside/outside restrictions on linebacker to make it easier to handle both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 4:41 pm
It isn’t fair!
:: leon washington — 12/18/2007 @ 4:42 pm
The usual frauds.
How does Walter Jones and Flozell Adams beat out Tra Thomas and Marc Colombo? Check out the line yards on the Eagles running left and Cowboys running right, vs. Seahawks and Cowboys running left.
How does Al Harris get in before Charles Woodson or Rod Hood?
How about Donald Driver and Tory Holt over Marques Colston and Greg Jennings?
How does Osi “I beat Winston Justice 5 times for a sack” Umeniyora beat Trent Cole, who has more sacks, and 50% more tackles?
Darnell Dockett, Mike Patterson, and Jovan Haye would all be better D Tackle selections than Tommie Harris.
How does no one on Tampa Bay make the Pro-Bowl?
NFC Pro-Bowl selections always seem so ridiculous.
In the AFC, the dumbest selection is Ogden over Joe Thomas and Ray Lewis over legions of more deserving MIKE linebackers.
:: Andrew — 12/18/2007 @ 4:43 pm
If I hadn’t voted myself, I’d probably be surprised to see that Orlando Pace didn’t make the cut.
:: Sebastian — 12/18/2007 @ 4:44 pm
I’m amused that LaDainian is the #3 WR in terms of votes.
:: Marcumzilla — 12/18/2007 @ 4:45 pm
Garrard not even first alternate (I am assuming it’s Derek Anderson). Mike Peterson is also a 2nd alternate.
Frankly, from what I’ve heard, players mostly vote on who they like and who they think is “tough.” Great system.
:: Sam — 12/18/2007 @ 4:45 pm
Well, Chris Hanson has been pretty good at directional punting, and uyyyymn ,
Sorry, my head hit the keyboard laughing.
I think many fan votes end up going for “special teams player/lineman on the perceived best team” or “sentimental favorite on my team.” That explains the votes for Hanson, Bruschi, and Larry Izzo to me.
:: Starshatterer — 12/18/2007 @ 4:47 pm
I’m done after this post: does it really make sense to ANYBODY that a 10-4 team with a realistic chance of going 12-4, taking the title of 3rd-best AFC record and coming from the most competitive division top-to-bottom, a team with a good shot at winning at least one road playoff game… has ZERO players going to Honolulu? That makes sense?
:: Sam — 12/18/2007 @ 4:47 pm
Biggest fraud has to be Matt “Turnstile” Light (Lite?) as a first-team pro-bowler.
Mankins is legit, though. And about time Vrabel made it in on the other side of the ball.
:: PatsFan — 12/18/2007 @ 4:47 pm
A much better pair of teams than the fan voting had me expecting.
:: Kneel Before Zod! — 12/18/2007 @ 4:47 pm
DeMeco Ryan and Ray Ray are the inside linebackers for the AFC? That just seems wrong to me.
Jacksonville is the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFL.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 4:48 pm
#15
A lot of big name DEs in the AFC have been hit by injuries, namely Richard Seymour and Dwight Freeney. Of the remaining players the only ones that stand out are Paul Spicer, Robert Mathis, Elvis Dumervil and Mario Williams. I would have given my nod to Mario Williams over Taylor, but Williams had his best game after (presumably) most of the voting occurred. The biggest snubs in my opinion were Keith Bulluck, Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Bryant McKinnie, Fred Taylor and Gary Brackett. I’d take McKinnie over Samuels and Adams any day. If there’s an O-line that deserves 3 Pro Bowlers, it’s the Vikings, not the Cowboys.
:: MDZ — 12/18/2007 @ 4:49 pm
Not a single member of the Browns o-line made the probowl, wrap your head around that.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 4:53 pm
Forget the Jaguars not having anyone — though that’s ridiculous, it’s nothing compared to this:
The NFC South combined for a total of: 0 Pro Bowlers. In other words, a team that was 0-13 when voting closed sent more players to the Pro Bowl than the entire NFC South plus Jacksonville.
:: hrudey — 12/18/2007 @ 4:54 pm
I must say I am puzzled that Willis beat out Nick Barnett. I could see an Urlacher due to name recognition but Willis? It could be green and gold tinted glasses but I have watched a lot of NFC football and Nick Barnett jumped out in just about every game he played.
:: BadgerT1000 — 12/18/2007 @ 4:56 pm
I have a hard time understanding Lechler over Scifres, but in all honesty I just don’t care that much about the Pro Bowl.
:: Richard — 12/18/2007 @ 4:56 pm
#19. You’re a sick puppy. (and five minutes later I am STILL laughing.)
You have my vote for winner of the thread.
:: panthersnbraves — 12/18/2007 @ 4:56 pm
19: That’s just not right.
:: Richard — 12/18/2007 @ 5:01 pm
I read the comments and saw the fan voting numbers first, so I was expecting a much worse roster, but I ended up being pleasantly surprised with most of the selections.
Rashean Mathis, Mario Williams, Fred Taylor, Marques Colston, and Joe Thomas were all snubbed. Roethlisberger over Garrard AND Andersen? God bless fantasy sports, I guess.
Ray Lewis has been coasting on his reputation for a long time, and I feel like that’s why Torry Holt got in too this year.
:: Matty — 12/18/2007 @ 5:01 pm
Re 38:
I can see Rothlisberger getting in. If he and Anderson got to switch offensive lines, one would look like a top 5 all time QB, and the other would look like a QB that got cut from the Ravens.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 5:04 pm
My initial reactions are that they did a decent job, with some obvious mistakes, most of which have been mentioned. A few that haven’t:
Michael Boley > Lance Briggs
Kellen Winslow > Antonio Gates
Mario Williams > Jason Taylor
I’m sure others will come to mind later.
:: MC2 — 12/18/2007 @ 5:05 pm
sam-
It’s disappointing, and I voted for 3 Jags (Taylor, Mathis, Garrard), but it’s not too surprising considering 2/3 of the vote is by players and fans. Garrard is unlucky that the AFC has 5 top flight QBs this year, I’d rank Garrard as first alternate. Fred Taylor should be going. None of their WRs, TEs or O-line should go. Stroud had his suspension, Henderson is a good player, but it seemed like a down year for him to me. Paul Spicer is having his best year and I would have had no problem with him making the team, but I also have no problem with the players picked ahead of him. Mike Peterson’s injury kept him out (along with the ludicrous choice of Ray Lewis). Rashean Mathis deserves to go, but he’s a shutdown corner in the Champ Bailey mode (teams don’t throw at him) without the fame so a less deserving guy with more INTs got chosen instead. Reggie Nelson has also played well, and should make a few Pro Bowls, just not this year. The Jags have a ton of guys who’ve been playing near Pro Bowl level this year, but they fell just short. That leads to a very good team, which the Jags are. As a Colts fan, I’m praying that the Steelers get the 3 seed and win in the WC round with the SD/JAX winner playing at NE.
:: MDZ — 12/18/2007 @ 5:06 pm
I’m like the fifth guy to mention it, so I’ll leave it at this: “Joe Thomas”
:: rageon — 12/18/2007 @ 5:08 pm
There are people (plural) here questioning the Patrick Willis selection? Better get used to hearing his name, he’ll be punching a ticket to Hawaii well into the next decade.
A little refresher
:: AlexSmithJoe — 12/18/2007 @ 5:12 pm
Re 43:
I know what you are saying is partly in jest, but I will say this. The best player on a terrible team does not a pro bowler make. Henderson, Barnett, Urlacher, and Ruud all probably deserve to go over Willis simply by the fact that they are playing for above average defenses.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 5:17 pm
No Colston? Houshmanzadeh over Chad Johnson seems odd to me as well. Kellen Winslow is a miss too. And of course, Joe Thomas.
Neat to see both Viks Williamses starting there though, and I’m surprised Urlacher didn’t get in by rep (not that he’s been bad this year).
:: Costa — 12/18/2007 @ 5:21 pm
I think most Bear’s fans have been too depressed to vote in the probowl.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 5:23 pm
All those gripes I just posted aside, plus the slightly exaggerated “when in doubt, throw the Dallas Cowboy in” philosophy that Ken Hamlin coasted on on the NFC’s side, this seems like a better job than usual of Pro Bowl selection (which is saying a lot about how bad it’s been in the past considering how many errors there still remain)
:: Costa — 12/18/2007 @ 5:25 pm
The exclusion of the NFC South is bizarre, especially as the Saints have a pretty fine offense and the Bucs a nice defense. I can’t imagine an entire division has been snubbed before. Alas, Matt Moore got the call too late…
:: ammek — 12/18/2007 @ 5:26 pm
The best thing that ever happened to the Jags was not getting any Pro-Bowlers - wouldn’t want to play them this week.
:: Otis Taylor 89 — 12/18/2007 @ 5:26 pm
Is Marion Barber the first player ever to have made a Pro Bowl without having started a single game that year (to date anyway)?
:: Dom — 12/18/2007 @ 5:28 pm
IN DEFENSE OF JASON TAYLOR:
Taylor is 5th in the AFC with 10 sacks. He also has 4 forced fumbles, 4 passes defended, a blocked field goal, and an interception returned for a touchdown.
Not MVP stuff, but he was named the 1st alternate.
:: Andy — 12/18/2007 @ 5:28 pm
Alex:
“but he can be blocked, and the best game plan for teams playing against the 49ers may be to run right at him.”
Nobody is saying he’s not a fine player. But he has his flaws.
I just find it surprising that a first year player on a horrible team rates over an established vet playing at just as high a level. But then one could make the argument that is testimony to how Willis is being perceived.
:: BadgerT1000 — 12/18/2007 @ 5:31 pm
well, leave it to FO to make snide comments about the 3rd string choices.
I look at these rosters and think they look pretty darn good. Of course, I only see 2 to 8 teams any given weak, but given how these beauty contests usually turn out, both the NFC and AFC teams look pretty good. You certainly couldn’t make a team of “snubs” that would be these teams.
you may now return to b*tching…
:: Carlos — 12/18/2007 @ 5:37 pm
The league leader in yards from scrimmage is behind one guy who didn’t start for half the season and another guy who still isn’t his team’s primary back. No. No. No.
:: Harris — 12/18/2007 @ 5:42 pm
Re: 31 If there’s an O-line that deserves 3 Pro Bowlers, it’s the Vikings, not the Cowboys.
I strongly disagree. Hutchinson is generally pretty good though inconsistent in run blocking and a liability in pass protection. I will be generous by calling Birk average in run blocking, but he is quite poor in pass protection. McKinnie is the only guy on the line that is good at both, and he probably is one of the top three tackles in the conference. Before the Monday night game, the Vikings were 11th in ALY (a number inflated by their superb running backs and Kleinsasser) and 28th in Adjusted Sack Rate. The widespread belief that the Vikings have a good offensive line is one of the biggest myths in football this year. They have a good offensive lineman, two guys coasting on their reputations, and two guys who have no business being starters in the NFL.
:: CA — 12/18/2007 @ 5:42 pm
20:
“Although, I don’t think Patrick Willis deserves to go, I’m sure he’s had a nice season, but he’s part of the 2nd worst defense in the NFL, 28th worst against the run and by far worst pass defense against TEs. I think 3 of the middle linebackers in the NFC North deserve to get in before him.”
Yeah, but have you actually watched him this year? Trust me, he deserves it. I’d bet cash money that he’s been grading out as well as any linebacker in the league, week in and week out.
:: langsty — 12/18/2007 @ 5:43 pm
I’m actually fine with the exclusion of Keith Bulluck this year, as he’s lost a step compared to years past. Then again, he should have been voted in based on being snubbed in past years when he really did deserve it.
Matt Light and Ogden over Joe Thomas is a mistake.
Does anybody else suspect Ray Lewis was chosen because he was injured and can be replaced with somebody who deserves it like Mike Peterson?
To me, Jamal Williams has missed enough time, I wouldn’t mind seeing another DT chosen instead, though I have no convenient names to offer.
From when I’ve seen the Bengals play, TJ has been a better player and more reliable target than 85. I have no issues with that pick.
Picking the 3rd AFC QB this year was a thankless task-Anderson is probably my #5, with Garrard and BenR really close at 3/4. I’d probably go with Garrard because BenR has two WRs I consider good and Garrard doesn’t have any.
I would have taken KW2 over the lesser of Gonzalez or Gates, though I’m not sure which that is.
Looking at the stats, Lechler really surprised me with how good he’s been. He’s 1.6 yards ahead of any other regular AFC punter in net, in addition to an excellent gross. Plus, he doesn’t really have that many TBs. I’m surprised OAK’s Punt DVOA is so poor.
:: NewsToTom — 12/18/2007 @ 5:44 pm
re: #36, #37
well, the joke is that it’s only partly a joke. you do realize that in the first game the redskins played after taylor was killed, they started out with a 10-man defense as a tribute to taylor, and promptly gave up a 22-yard run to fred jackson?
:: Joon — 12/18/2007 @ 5:44 pm
Re 44, Tom: I really cannot disagree with you more. The idea isn’t to select players from decent teams, it’s to select the best players. Willis doesn’t become any worse a player because the niners suck. He’s been awesome this year, probably the best MLB in the game. (If the niners ever manage to get him some protection from O-linemen, and moving to a 4-3 would help, then he’ll be even better.)
:: Karl Cuba — 12/18/2007 @ 5:45 pm
Westy not a starter and T.Cole not even a substitute is a pure joke.
And W.Thomas definatly deserves to be there too.
Polamalu, R.Lewis, J.Taylor, Light, Sharper… Way to be voted to Hawai on rep. Shouldn’t be a surprise but still…
:: bubqr — 12/18/2007 @ 5:51 pm
The #2 defense in the league only puts only one guy (Bob Sanders) in the Pro Bowl. Gary Brackett should have made it. He’s been all over the field breaking up passes and making plays against the run.
David Garrard’s first interception? came on a pass where Brackett read Garrard perfectly, jumped into the passing lane and tipped it up into the air for an easy pick.
he’s made 100 Tackles while having the most difficult coverage responsibilities of any LB (when he doesn’t have deep middle he’s QB spying on Vince Young or blanketing a great TE like Antonio Gates-3 for 26 v IND)
:: shake n bake — 12/18/2007 @ 5:54 pm
And while I’m thinking about it, how does Mike Patterson, who is leading the NFC in tackles by a DT and anchors the #4 ranked defense, get left off this team?
JUSTIN FREAKING TUCK has 14 more tackles and only two fewer sacks than Umenoria and nobody thinks Tuck is a Pro-Bowler. Yet Trent Cole, who has more sacks and tackles than BOTH OF THEM didn’t make the roster. I’m going to start torturing the hostages again to relieve some stress.
:: Harris — 12/18/2007 @ 5:55 pm
I agree with Karl Cuba. And I hate the Niners and hope Willis dies in a fire. But this should be about rewarding the best performances, period.
38: “Ray Lewis has been coasting on his reputation for a long time, and I feel like that’s why Torry Holt got in too this year.”
Holt is third among NFC receivers in DPAR, as of this week. He deserves it more this year than he did the last couple of seasons, if you buy into the metrics.
:: langsty — 12/18/2007 @ 5:59 pm
CA, you are wrong. There is no way you have a team with the Vikings’ offensive DVOA ranking with Tavaris Jackson at qb, and receivers like Wade, Ferguson, and Troy Williamson, if the team also has two offensive lineman who have no business being starters in the NFL. It is impossible.
Adjusted sack rate is near-worthless as a means of measuring an individual offensive lineman’s pass blocking, and if you doubt this go look at what the numbers were for the 2004 Vikings, a team which frequently gave Culpepper more than five seconds to throw, but ended up with a very high adjusted sack rate. Frankly, unless someone has charted games with stopwatch in hand, I doubt they have a very good handle on who has pass blocked well. There simply are too many variables to measure it otherwise.
:: Will Allen — 12/18/2007 @ 6:01 pm
Oh, and Michael Boley probably deserved to go. But the NFC is so flush with good outside linebackers that I can understand his being left out.
:: langsty — 12/18/2007 @ 6:03 pm
Re 59:
I’m saying Willis looks better than he is because he is playing with subpar talent, while Ruud probably looks worse than he is because people around him are making plays too.
I doubt anyone on the 31st ranked defense in the league deserves a probowl. If they did, the defense would be better.
:: Tom — 12/18/2007 @ 6:14 pm
No one thinks Marshawn Lynch got snubbed? Especially when the AFC Running Backs included Willie Parker and an (underperforming) LdT? I know he was hurt for part of the year, but people have been saying he would be a lock for RoY if Peterson didn’t exist…
Matt Light makes it on the basis of he’s (a well known, well established) left tackle for a 14-0 team. And to be fair, he’s had some really good games. And some not so good games. I like the other O-line selections, except that I think someone from Cleveland should have made it, maybe over Light or Ogden (who is probably a reputation vote) or Dielman. But really, Parker is the AFC choice that really bothers me, especially when there are some other very good RB’s in the AFC right now.
I agree that they should just say “D-lineman” and “Linebacker” instead of trying to break it down into DT, DE, OLB, and ILB, so that defenders that play in the 3-4 aren’t unduly penalized. Of course, that would require some intelligence on the part of the voting public, which is probably too much to ask…
:: MJK — 12/18/2007 @ 6:15 pm
I’m puzzled as to why someone wants logical explanations to an illogical process like Pro bowl selection. The only thing more puzzling is actually wanting to watch the pro-bowl.
:: Johonny — 12/18/2007 @ 6:17 pm
Someone with much more time than I have should do a study…
Does Pro Bowl voting correlate positively with National TV appearances (SNFIA and MNF) and success in such appearances?
If you have a *lot* of time, you could also factor in NFLNetwork games, and games shown on Saturday over a majority of the nation. Possibly even ‘gratuitous praise by talking heads during telecast and/or pre/post game shows’. Though that one would require a few more columns for the game charters ;).
I’ll hypothesize that yes, there’s a positive correlation. But it’d be nice to quantify it, just for fun. Look for my study sometime in 2058, when I retire.
:: masocc — 12/18/2007 @ 6:23 pm
So, for all those saying Ray Lewis doesn’t deserve to go to the pro bowl, how many Ravens games have you watched this year?
Ray Lewis has been having one of his best seasons in a long time. Notice how once he went out with an injury, Miami, racked up over 200 yards in less than two quarters.
It’s odd how people say he’s been relying on his rep too long. I’m guessing most people’s opinions of his “declining” skills are not based on actual observation.
Ogden making the team is a complete joke, though.
:: jonnyblazin — 12/18/2007 @ 6:27 pm
#70
Lewis may be having his best season in the past 3 or 4, but that still doesn’t make him a pro bowler. He went from being a horrible Pro Bowl choice based on rep, to merely undeserving. Ray’s played better than Ray of 2004-2006, but he hasn’t played better than Mike Peterson or Gary Brackett have.
:: MDZ — 12/18/2007 @ 6:50 pm
#9
I think you are mistaken if you think coaches and sports writers would base their selections upon DPAR ranks. Both coaches and writers would probably go by raw yardage too. Also, Parker’s (and Roethlisberger’s) are artificially low in my opinion because DVOA and DPAR can’t accurately capture the awfullness that is the Steelers offensive line.
:: Luz — 12/18/2007 @ 6:56 pm
CA, you don’t seem to grasp the fact that the Vikings and Adrian run the ball into what is an 8 man front as the opponents base defense and 9 man fronts when they load up to stop the run. Even Jaws pointed out on several occasions yesterday and in the postgame Steve Young was gleeful just at the thought of playing QB facing single safety coverage.
:: Jin — 12/18/2007 @ 6:56 pm
I think this kind of takes any suspense out of offensive and defensive rookies of the year. I believe Peterson is the only offensive rookie selected and Willis is the only defensive rookie.
:: Sean D — 12/18/2007 @ 6:57 pm
Justin Fargas should be on Pro Bowl AFC team. Maybe he make team as alterbate after other Rb get injured or decide not to go to hawii/
:: Raiderjoe — 12/18/2007 @ 7:15 pm
#19, #36
BOOOO !! BOOOOO !!
Unsportmanlike conduct
15 yard penalty
automatic first down
Boooooo !! Booooo !!
:: skins fan — 12/18/2007 @ 7:36 pm
#9 wins the thread. #19 was funny, but in questionable taste.
I think the inclusion of Sean Taylor was great. A few other quibbles, most of which are duly noted above–Brackett, Joe Thomas, Mario Williams, but as Will A points out, who actually watches enough games to make a true value judgement, as opposed to relying on the stat line, DVOA (granted, a pretty good yardstick), and reputation or team success? I know I don’t.
And as TMQ points out every year, the voting ends kind of early, so late-season bloomers and their supporters tend to feel shafted. What happens if Fred Taylor runs for 300 yards inthe next two games and Garrard has 4TDs in each one? Man, you look at a full season and say they REALLY got hosed. Or if Addai racks up 350 in the next two games, will that shut up Prisco and Judge, who both single him out as unworthy? But the reality is that most voting ended more than one week before they did those things.
Luckily, this isn’t all that important. (I think I had a physics prof who would say that after a long answer to some student question.)
:: Bobman — 12/18/2007 @ 8:05 pm
31: Nice to see Paul Spicer getting some recognition, but the fact that his name wasn’t on the ballot for fan voting meant he was never in with a chance.
41: I disagree with you on the Jaguars WRs. If nobody else, Matt Jones should go - so he can see how real wide receivers play. Perhaps the rest of the team should club together to buy him a ticket.
:: iapetus — 12/18/2007 @ 9:03 pm
here are the current DPAR rankings of the QB,RB,WR. and TE. I only considered making vs not making, not the order they made it it.
AFC
QB: 1,2,7 (Rothlisberger)
RB: 1,2,18 (Parker)
WR: 1,2,6,7
TE: 1,4
Ironically, the Steelers had two obscene inclusions and two even worse omissions (Miller, Holmes)
NFC
QB: 2,3,4
RB: 1,2,3
WR: 1,4,6,7
TE: 1,3
Brees, Colston both are pretty glaring, but actually better than AFC.
Defences I post by number of players sent, and DVOA rank in parenthese:
NE:3(4)
SD:3(5)
PIT:2 (1)
TEN:2(3)
BAL:2(6)
IND:1(2)
KC:1(8)
DEN:1(11)
HOU:1(12)
MIA:1(16)
The only ones that look like bad calls from an aspect of team representation are MIA,DEN,HOU (although Indy probably deserves one of the spots from BAL or SD). Den is Champ, and I think everyone agrees he deserves it. Everyone seems to think houston deserved some defensive representation, and maybe Williams would be better than Ryans, but 2 representing the #12 defense in the conference is a bit extreme. Then there is MIA. Wow is taylor a bad call. Granted he was D-MVP last year, but he did not personally work hard enough to impact it, and his defense did not work hard enough for a reputation representation.
NFC:
SEA:4(2)
DAL:3(3)
MIN:3(4)
CHI:2(7)
GB:2(9)
WAS:1(5)
NYG:1(8)
SF:1(16)
Wow did Tampa get snubbed. I dont even know who to give the nod to (I watch AFC and NFC North), but someone has to get a representation nod from the best team in the conference. Chicago and Green Bay are both probably over-represented, and I only watched one SF game, and Willis played decent ball, but I seem to remember actually being unimpressed. He had good stats, but I never saw him make a tackle and was blown away by the soundness, but rather was always wondering if this one was going to get broken long or if Willis was going to get dragged 5 yards before finishing it.
I generally believe that even when an individual player might not deserve a PB nod, when the field is muddied and no one truly stands out that its ok to give the nod to a decent player on a good team. I would take a very strong issue with many of the defensive picks (Merriman, Lewis, Umenyiora, Kerney, Peterson, Willis, Harris, Newman, Sharper, Hamlin, J. Taylor, J.Williams, Cromartie) because I dont think they are the best based off of pure talent as has been played this year… but I think once you factor in team representation that (excepting what I noted above), its a fairly solid representation.
:: MarkV — 12/18/2007 @ 9:36 pm
Indeed, there’s still 12.5% of the season to be played. Is there any particular reason why they don’t wait until the very end of the season to close the voting?
:: Costa — 12/18/2007 @ 9:41 pm
BTW:
last years FO most under-rated offensive player got more pro-bowl votes than any defensive player. Maybe he isnt that under-rated, atleast by the fans.
:: MarkV — 12/18/2007 @ 9:45 pm
79: That you think Holmes should have made the Pro-Bowl based on his DVOA pretty much sums up why DVOA is useless for picking Pro-bowlers. Holmes is the 2nd receiver, he gets less attention from a defense than Ward and so his DVOA is boosted, you could call this the ‘PAtrick Crayton effect’.
66: I disagree, unually in the NFL, being surrounded with talent makes you look like a better player, how often does a highly regarded player leave a decent unit and then turn out to be mediocre?
:: Karl Cuba — 12/18/2007 @ 10:13 pm
I’m mostly fine with the rosters, but maybe Moorman deserved to go over Lechler. And Ogden is living off a reputation he stopped deserving some time ago. Maybe Welker over Houshmandzadeh.
As a Colts fan, I think all the Colts who deserved to go are going. If Freeney had stayed healthy he’d be there too, and he’d deserve it.
As for Jacksonville, it is true they are not respected enough, but I think people get a mental block about them because no matter how tough they seem, they never climb the hill and take the division from the Colts. The AFC South is the best top-to-bottom division this year. The worst team will probably go .500.
As for Tampa, they also have not had enough respect, but I think part of the problem is that they are a collection of very good players, without many GREAT players. That’s good for winning football games, which is all that matters, but not so great for getting guys into the Pro Bowl.
:: Chad Gerson — 12/18/2007 @ 10:13 pm
Re: Vikings
I’m with Will Allen on E.J. Henderson. He’s been dominant this year, but since I’ve watched all the Viking games and very little of the 49ers or Seahawks, I can’t really make an argument of dispute. But Henderson has been all over the field.
And just to give an idea of the kind of defenses the Viking offense faces: on the first three Viking offensive plays last night, the Bears played in a 4-5, a 4-4, and a 5-3. How often in the NFL do you hear about a 4-5 defense on 1st and 10?
:: Pacifist Viking — 12/18/2007 @ 10:22 pm
84: I would expect Henderson to be effective, he’s got a pair of Williamses to play behind, that’s good news for any linebacker.
:: Karl Cuba — 12/18/2007 @ 10:37 pm
RE:79
I was trying to use DPAR to make a comparison, without really respecting my opinion of who should be in. On my ballet, I did vote Holmes however.
I am really not a big believer that defenses focus on #1 WRs and that THAT gives #2s or TEs their chances. Obviously this is true schematically in some games (Cle vs NE, Dal vs Det), but mostly Defences dont shift based on a specific WR, but rather on the offensive formation. This combined with the well documented tendency of teams to have CBs play right and left instead of 1 and 2 makes me skeptical that in the game there is much of an effect. Players and Coaches may focus more time studying tape of certain players during the week, and tape study is important, but its not what makes Holmes get open.
:: MarkV — 12/18/2007 @ 10:44 pm
85: that’s true–the DTs help Henderson, and it’s difficult to separate his production from them (even many of his open field tackles on the sidelines, you could argue, are a result of the DTs taking away blockers and/or forcing plays to the outside away from blockers).
Basically, the Viking run defense is pretty similar to what it was last season with Napoleon Harris at middle linebacker, and E.J. Henderson playing very well at outside linebacker. I won’t discount the impact of Kevin Williams and Pat Williams, but I do see Henderson making a lot of productive plays of his own.
:: Pacifist Viking — 12/18/2007 @ 10:47 pm
“I’m saying Willis looks better than he is because he is playing with subpar talent, while Ruud probably looks worse than he is because people around him are making plays too.
I doubt anyone on the 31st ranked defense in the league deserves a probowl. If they did, the defense would be better.”
This is just a completely asinine and perverse argument. I don’t even know what to say.
:: langsty — 12/18/2007 @ 11:00 pm
Willis is currently leading the league in Tackles by 20 (142). While most of that is probably mop up duty from the rest of the Niners’ front seven, it’s something that both fans and players would remember when casting votes.
:: JC — 12/18/2007 @ 11:08 pm
The AFC has no Pro-Bowl Fullback.
Fullbacks don’t have pro-bowl backups. I’ve long thought this strange.
I’m just sorry that a guy like LoNeal had to go out for the season to illustrate the point.
:: emcee fleshy (atl/sd) — 12/19/2007 @ 12:10 am
There’s no “reserve” FB, but there are still “alternates.” It looks like Greg Jones is the 1st alternate for the AFC at FB.
:: BlueStarDude — 12/19/2007 @ 12:30 am
I think my name says it all.(walks away feeling cheated by Al once again…”Ogden”, I say, how do you make the pro bowl if you can’t walk more than 10 feet without falling out.)War Browns in the playoffs, and Rep and Death Certificates continuing to trump skill in pro bowl voting.
:: BrownsFan — 12/19/2007 @ 1:03 am
I’m with Will Allen on E.J. Henderson.
Me too. And all it took to turn EJ back into the star he was in college was to get rid of Cottrell.
Keep that in mind when TMQ tries to argue that coaching changes are overrated.
:: Carlos — 12/19/2007 @ 1:50 am
Can we put to rest the notion (eg in post 67) that Tomlinson is having a bad year? Essentially he’s been rolling at 5 yards per carry, 100 yards per game since week 4 or so. The only back who has played all-around better football than him is Brian Westbrook.
:: Yaguar — 12/19/2007 @ 3:17 am
3, et al.
Re: Harris
It would certainly seem he’s not having a stellar year, especially after the spotlight game against Dallas (in which they played a lot of zone, no?)
But being that he generally goes 1-on-1 against the opposing #1, and given that FO analysis puts GB at #5 in the league against opposing #1s, it would seem he is having a pretty solid season.
:: doubleipa — 12/19/2007 @ 4:12 am
As to players who were elected without any reputation to speak of, I think James Harrison stands out. Or maybe he was riding Joey Porter’s reputation by replacing him without missing a beat?
:: bengt — 12/19/2007 @ 4:37 am
96.
Nah. He was that good last year when he was the 5th wheel.
19.
You shouldn’t try to be funny. You realy have no humor at all.
:: Theo, Holland — 12/19/2007 @ 5:06 am
So, the combined All-Snub pro bowl team - would they make it a game against either of the NFC or AFC official teams? Discuss…
QB: D Garrard, D Anderson
WR: C Johnson, M Colston, W Welker, G Jennings,
TE: K Winslow
RB: F Taylor, J Lewis
FB: L Vickers
OT: J Thomas, B McKinnie
OG: E Steinbach, C Carlisle, B Waters
C: B Meester, J Faine
DE: M Williams, T Cole, P Spicer
DT: M Patterson, D Dockett
OLB: EJ Henderson, K Bulluck, M Boley
MLB: N Barnett, G Brackett, B Ruud, M Peterson,
CB: R Mathis, C Woodson,
S: R Nelson, W Demps
P: B Moorman
K: K Brown
KR: L Washington
:: malene, cph, dk — 12/19/2007 @ 6:00 am
Curious question:
How do Pro Bowl teams fill out the rest of their special teams rosters? Obviously none of the guys selected for position spots are playing on kickoff returns. Does one team simply send their unit?
:: Chris M — 12/19/2007 @ 6:46 am
99.
Obviously none of the guys selected for position spots are playing on kickoff returns.
It’s not that obvious. Some play on special teams, just not all of them.
At the Pro Bowl they rock-paper-scissor for it.
:: Theo, Holland — 12/19/2007 @ 7:14 am
I agree with all the people saying that Jacksonville and Tampa Bay got screwed. I think you can make a good case for Garrard over Roethlisberger, although it’s not a slam dunk. As for the Bucs, that’s a little tougher. If they played in the AFC, I would certainly put Graham in ahead of Parker, but it’s pretty tough to make an argument against Barber, and Peterson & Westbrook are no-brainers.
:: MC2 — 12/19/2007 @ 8:06 am
For fun, here are the various coaches wins/pro-bowl players, through week 15.
Del Rio: 10*
Gruden: 9*
Caughlin: 9
Peyton: 7*
Jauron: 7
Kubiak: 7
Marinelli: 6*
Fox: 6*
Schottenheimer:6
Wizenhunt: 6
Lewis: 5
Crennel: 4.5
Kiffin: 4
(ATL coach) 3*
Mangini: 3*
McCarthy: 3
Reid: 3
Linahan: 3
Gibbs: 2.8
Fisher: 2.7
Dungy: 2.4
Tomlin: 2.25
Edwards: 2
Nolan: 2
Belichek: 1.75
Holgrim: 1.5
Billick: 1.3
Childress: 1.3
Smith: 1.3
Phillips: 1.09
Cameron: 1
Turner: .88
This “metric” is to see how well coaches perform comparable to the level of perceived talent on their team. (I make no representation on spelling or calculation errors).
:: bowman — 12/19/2007 @ 8:51 am
#97. Didn’t you read post # 36?
I think it’s just a matter of your wrong opinion!
:: Jesus — 12/19/2007 @ 9:12 am
relax guys, it’s a fan popularity poll. if your lucky, and a typical voter, maybe you’ve even heard of some of these guys outside of the home team. your expecting maybe scientific reasoning?
rjholl
:: Ron Holl — 12/19/2007 @ 9:13 am
malene #98:
The all-snub team is missing a few players to round out the roster.
QB - Drew Brees
DT - Jovan Haye
TE - Heath Miller or Owen Daniels
OT - William Thomas
RB - Ernest Graham
CB - Rod Hood
FS - Michael Griffin
Special Teamer - Larry Izzo
I think the all-snub team matches up well, and using the huge chip on their shoulders of being snubbed, would kick the ass of either the NFC or AFC team.
:: Andrew — 12/19/2007 @ 9:23 am
To be fair, Chris Hanson probably gets votes for his work in catching internet predators.
:: dryheat — 12/19/2007 @ 10:00 am
Bobman: “Or if Addai racks up 350 in the next two games, will that shut up Prisco and Judge, who both single him out as unworthy? But the reality is that most voting ended more than one week before they did those things.”
Addai’s racked up 315 yards on 102 carries in the past six weeks, so I wouldn’t exactly hold my breath for 350 in two weeks. But voting before teams have played their 14th game (and allowing fan vote to weigh so heavily to allow Addai in over Taylor, among others) are absurd.
:: hrudey — 12/19/2007 @ 10:03 am
Sir Torrence Holt
3 qbs
one was frerotten
one made his first start ever
one played with broken ribs
offensive line injuries and s jax was down
but still third in receptions, fourth in yards and fifth in touchdowns…and 4 wrs make it…going buy the qb play this guy had im sure he desereved it
:: extremely conservative — 12/19/2007 @ 10:39 am
Hrudey,
Addai has simply played better than Fred Taylor this year. Now letting Willie Parker in ahead of Taylor, that’s absurd.
:: MDZ — 12/19/2007 @ 11:03 am
Early in the season, maybe — and if the Pro Bowl is a “First half of the season” award, definitely he should be there. But look at what he’s done the past six weeks and who he’s not done it against.
:: hrudey — 12/19/2007 @ 11:08 am
Re: 64
Will, please don’t think that I’m judging the Vikings’ offensive linemen on ALY and ASR. I just threw those numbers in there because people around here like stats and because I wanted to show that there isn’t much statistical evidence that the Vikings’ offensive line is good (i.e., I’m not trying to use those stats to show that the line is bad; I’m using them to indicate an absence of evidence that it is good).
I’ve watched many Vikings games, and I’ve tried to watch the line closely. Those are my conclusions based on what I’ve watched. You’re right that it’s hard to judge quality pass blocking. That’s why the same offensive linemen go to the Pro Bowl every year, long after they deserve to do so; it’s hard to say for sure that they’ve regressed, and it’s hard to identify young talent. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
When people look at the Vikings, they see great run production and two of the best-known interior linemen in the game (Hutchinson and Birk), and they seem just to assume that those two must be playing well. It helps that both are still capable of occasionally pulling off the highlight reel blocks (to the extent that blocks by offensive linemen ever make the highlight reels). The problem is that those highlight reel blocks punctuate many lesser efforts.
Let me make clear: Hutchinson is indeed an above-average run blocker. He isn’t close to the one-man running game that people thought he was after the 2005 season, largely because he is inconsistent. He makes amazing blocks at times, but often he just disappears (and not in a good way). I don’t think Hutchinson ever was regarded as an elite pass blocker, and he certainly hasn’t been over the last two years.
While I am bucking the conventional wisdom when it comes to Birk and Hutchinson, I can’t possibly be in the minority when I call Cook and Hicks/Herrera backup-quality players. The Vikings do have one of the best players at the game at what is by far the most important position on the line (McKinnie), and that helps a lot.
Just my humble opinion.
:: CA — 12/19/2007 @ 11:12 am
#58, I had heard about the play.
#76 I didn’t say it wasn’t sick - just funny.
:: panthersnbraves — 12/19/2007 @ 11:20 am
The Pro Bowl also isn’t who’s having an awesome second half. Are Addai’s excellent first eight games worse than Fred Taylor’s excellent last four games? Addai’s also a much better receiver. None of this is to denigrate Fred Taylor, but I think Addai has had a better season. Besides, the main point from my earlier response is that both were far more deserving than Willie Parker who hasn’t played nearly as well as his yardage totals indicate.
:: MDZ — 12/19/2007 @ 11:26 am
Re 102:
That’s kind of interesting, it might be better if you did probowlers + 1, so that coaches with no probowlers get more accurately shown.
:: Tom — 12/19/2007 @ 11:29 am
104. We’ll pipe down about Pro Bowl selection when it stops being used as a criteria for HOF enshrinement.
:: bowman — 12/19/2007 @ 11:30 am
MC2 & other Boley supporters - I haven’t seen much of the Falcons this year (thank God!), but Boley would have to be playing out of his mind to be a clear selection over Briggs. Briggs has been easily the best player on the Bears’ D this year, and he’s played better this year than last, when everyone here agreed he deserved his Pro Bowl selection.
Also, I have to give props to the selectors for having the stones to snub two Bears who I was sure would get in on rep alone: Kreutz and Urlacher. I’m guessing if the CHI/MIN Monday night game had happened a week earlier, Urlacher probably would have made it, but he’s had a really down year and was only the 3rd best MLB in his division.
:: TomC — 12/19/2007 @ 11:47 am
To follow up on my post I redid the the wins/probowers with probowlers + 1.
Del Rio: 10*
Gruden: 9*
Peyton: 7*
Marinelli: 6*
Fox: 6*
Caughlin: 4.5
Jauron: 3.5
Shannahan:3.5
Kubiak: 3.5
(ATL coach) 3*
Mangini: 3*
Wizenhunt: 3
Crennel: 3
Lewis: 2.5
McCarthy: 2.4
Kiffin: 2
Reid: 2
Fisher: 2
Dungy: 2
Edwards: 1.75
Gibbs: 1.75
Nolan: 1.75
Belichek: 1.56
Linahan: 1.5
Tomlin: 1.5
Smith: 1.25
Billick: 1
Holgrem: 1
Childress: 1
Phillips: 1
Turner: .88
Cameron: .5
:: Tom — 12/19/2007 @ 11:56 am
Tampa really got snubbed. Of the players that could have been potentially named, Barrett Ruud should have been named without question and Tanard Jackson has been excellent.
On offense, I really think an argument can be made for Earnest Graham to be the #3 RB over Barber. He has just as many yards as Barber and had he been the starter for the first four weeks of the season he would blow his stats away.
:: Andy — 12/19/2007 @ 12:25 pm
I think that one of the biggest snubs, who didn’t even make it as an alternate, was Chris Harris. For the Panthers this season, he has 90 tackles, 8 forced fumbles, and 1 interception. The interception numbers are there with the starters, but the fumbles and tackles should have accounted for something. Maybe it’s because he isn’t a “name” yet, but to suggest that he isn’t deserving of at least an alternate spot is insane.
:: Derek — 12/19/2007 @ 1:30 pm
#118
I have to laugh at people would think TB got snubbed. They played 3 games against teams currently eligible for the playoffs - and lost all 3. They had one of the easiest schedules in the NFL this year and if they played even an average schedule they would be below .500.
They have played practically nobody, have beaten absolutely nobody. You can’t have it both ways, have a very easy schedule and expect Pro-Bowlers.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
:: Otis Taylor 89 — 12/19/2007 @ 2:06 pm
Yeah, TB has a lot of wins over bad teams and that makes them unworthy of a Pro Bowler. Want to explain Jacksonville, or why that logic doesn’t apply to, say, Buffalo or Miami?
:: hrudey — 12/19/2007 @ 3:01 pm
#116: “Briggs has been easily the best player on the Bears’ D this year…”
That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement. As everyone knows, the Bears D has regressed to the point where it’s really no more than a mediocre unit. Of course, it’s still much better than the Falcons, but I actually think that’s a point in Boley’s favor. Besides the oft-injured John Abraham and the wildly inconsistent DeAngelo Hall, Boley really has no help. In spite of that, it sometimes seems as if there’s 2 or 3 of him on the field. He really does seem to be everywhere. I’ve only seen the Bears a few times this year, but in those games, Briggs has looked good, but not great.
Statistically, Boley has a clear (but not overwhelming) edge:
Boley - 106 tackles, 3 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, 2 INTs
Briggs - 94 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 0 INTs
I’m not saying that it’s a travesty that Briggs made it, just that Boley probably deserved it a little more.
:: MC2 — 12/19/2007 @ 4:25 pm
Re 122:
The Bears defense is actually better than it’s perception. Their ranked 14th right now in DVOA, and that will probably go up as they have been playing better the last few weeks.
:: Tom — 12/19/2007 @ 4:57 pm
CA, I really try to avoid arguments about who deserves to be selected to the Pro Bowl, especially offensive linemen, because unless one has spent a few hundred hours breaking down film, you just have little basis to make comparisons. However, when a team has Tavaris Jackson at qb, and Wade, Ferguson, Williamson, and a rookie playing wr (even a quality rookie like Rice), it really is impossible for that offense to have the DVOA ranking the Vikings offense has, with two starting offensive linemen who are back up quality by the standards of the rest of the starters in the league. I know the conventional wisdom regarding Herrera and Cook is that they are sub-par. The conventional wisdom is wrong, especially on a weighted basis, with more emphasis given to the last ten games.
:: Will Allen — 12/19/2007 @ 5:00 pm
No one thinks Marshawn Lynch got snubbed? Especially when the AFC Running Backs included Willie Parker and an (underperforming) LdT?
No, not really. He’s 25th in DPAR, and 14th in the AFC. That’s not exactly Pro Bowl performance. Now, Willie Parker is probably even worse. And I guess you’re right, Tomlinson is underperforming, he’s only second in rushing DPAR.
This “metric” is to see how well coaches perform comparable to the level of perceived talent on their team.
I’m shocked, shocked, to see Norv Turner at the bottom of your list!
Norv, doing the least with the most since 1994.
:: Alex — 12/19/2007 @ 6:08 pm
“Hi Fred, we’ve just had a roster spot open up. Interested?”
:: Dean from Oz — 12/21/2007 @ 12:40 am