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21 Feb 2008
Thursday NFL Combine Report
by Doug Farrar
From Thursday through Sunday, every day has its own special role for the media at the Combine. If Friday is the media stampede (and it is -- this is when most of the coaches and executives hold their press conferences, along with all the quarterbacks, running backs and receivers) and Saturday and Sunday are the days in which test times are awaited with bated breath so that Internet outlets can fight to break the numbers seconds before the rest, then Thursday is the warmup. There's still a lot going on, though. Offensive linemen, special teamers and tight ends got their time on the podiums today, as did several members of the NFL's executive upper echelon.
Still, tomorrow is when things get REALLY hairy. It has been estimated that 550 credentials have been handed out for this event this year, up from about 370 last year. 2007 was the first time that the media members outnumbered the players on hand. At this rate, the Convention Center won't be big enough in a few years.
The media room is a Bizzaro World -- players herded to their podiums, cameras and talking heads, and eager writers aiming to get just one more question out of player, coach, or team president X, even after his time is up. Certain coaches, like New Orleans' Sean Payton, make themselves available for certain smaller media appearances; others come here to scout talent and don't want to talk to anyone else. Adam Schefter and Paul Burmeister of the NFL Network were doing TV about ten feet from our table; I learned that the Cowboys franchised former Seahawks safety Ken Hamlin because Schefter reported it just over my left shoulder.
Last year, Aaron Schatz and I did a daily series for FOX called "five things we learned at the Combine" (witty, huh?) and we wanted to do it again, but here. So, without further ado, here are five things that stood out today:
1. Scot McCloughan had a lot to say about the spread offense.
San Francisco's general manager talked about the rehabs of quarterbacks Alex Smith and Shaun Hill (both are progressing nicely, and they should be ready for OTAs), as well as his new GM position. Although Mike Nolan will still have a hand in personnel decisions and McCloughan was very charitable about the idea that it's a team effort when it comes to putting together the roster, one gets a sense that the name of the final decision-maker has changed.
Most interesting were his comments about what the increase of the spread offense in college football has done to player evaluation. It was McCloughan's belief that drive-blocking has been de-emphasized, and pass protection over-emphasized. While this may mirror certain trends in the pro game, McCloughan said that it's almost a relief to scout a more traditional offense like USC's.
He also said that increasing numbers of three- and four-wide sets are changing the tight end position -- you'll see more guys who were previously thought to be too short at 6-foot-2 or 6-3 being evaluated as tight ends/hybrid receivers as opposed to H-backs. The obvious question was: How will new 49ers offensive coordinator Mike Martz, who has traditionally thrown less to tight ends then most, work with Vernon Davis? The answer seemed to be: Don't be surprised to see him spread out wide more often. This is a case where the college game may be affecting the professional trend over time.
2. Branden Albert is ready for the big time.
Draft position isn't always about sheer talent -- either opportunity knocks, and you answer, or the silence at the door tells you too much. Sometimes, teams will go on bottom-round runs on certain positions, and other players will slip right out of a round below where they thought they should go as a result. Underclassmen, as with this year's running backs class, can turn a position from a liability into a severe strength. Striking and making your claim when the time is right can literally mean millions of dollars.
Virginia junior guard Branden Albert, who played his college ball on Al Groh's pro-style offense, took a good look at the 2008 guards in the draft and thought that if he came out early, he might shoot to No. 1 on everyone's board, and that's exactly what's happened. What also may happen is that Albert moves to the middle of an outstanding tackle class. Mike Mayock of the NFL Network believes that with Albert's short-area quickness and lateral agility, he could easily kick outside. Albert is that rare mixture of athleticism and sheer nastiness, and he's coming closer and closer to a high-paid future. The only question is, at what position?
3. Enough with the freakin' Spygate, already!!!
... or at least that's what we heard from Titans head coach Jeff Fisher and Colts team president Bill Polian today. The Competition Committee held a 35-minute press conference during which the Patriots' various videotaping embarrassments were the main topic. Polian said that the Committee met with Commissioner Roger Goodell this morning and were briefed on the violations and the reasoning behind the discipline. Polian was satisfied and felt that it was time to move on. He was asked if it's difficult for him to separate his interest as a member of the Committee and the man who runs a team whose interests so often collide with those of New England. He replied that the big picture is more important.
Fisher was asked how he would feel if it was discovered that the Pats videotaped one of HIS walkthroughs. "I'm not going to answer that question because we’re dealing with a hypothetical situation related to an ongoing investigation right now. I think you could speculate what my answer would be (laughter). But I'm not going to go into any detail."
And that, mercifully, is where it was left.
4. Other Committee concerns
Guess what -- the Committee had other things to talk about as well! I asked Rich McKay about the wildly divergent swings in penalties from crew to crew -- in 2006, the crew that called the most holding penalties flagged four times more than the crew to called it the least. McKay's concern about this issue was discussed in the Pro Football Prospectus 2007 essay, "A Year in the Life of the Competition Committee." McKay said that while it is a concern that needs more off-field addressing, he casually equated it to "evening up the strike zone," which led me to believe that it's not as big an issue as I thought in the minds of those who make and refine the rules. I have no doubt that certain teams scout particular officials and crews in the regular season -- for example, ascertaining that if Walt Coleman (14 holding penalties in the regular season) is the name of the crew chief on their flip card, their offensive linemen can be more liberal with the holds than if Ron Winter (56 in the regular season) is calling the game.
Fisher talked about the late pre-field goal timeouts that had people in such an uproar, and while he understands the distress, there won't likely be a lot done about it. "We can't legislate when you can call timeouts and when you cannot call timeouts," Fisher said. "I don't think it’s going to be an ongoing issue. I think it was just an early season trend and I don’t think we’ll see much more of it."
Fisher also posed the following scenario: If you prevent players from calling timeouts at certain points of special teams plays, you'll run into situations there teams will have too many men in the field, aren't able to stop the clock, and incur a penalty they have no way of preventing.
5. Tight end Jermichael Finley might have an "in" with the Titans.
The redshirt sophomore from Texas has been working out with a famous alum -- quarterback Vince Young. "Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday I go out with Vince and we throw balls, run routes, and it's a real nice experience because I'm getting balls from an NFL quarterback and I'm getting my timing right," Finley said of his time with Young at the UT campus. Is Young talking Finley up? "Ah, me and Vince talk, and he says, 'I'm getting your name out there. I've got pull at the Titans.' So he's getting my name out."
Bo Scaife ranked 40th in DPAR among tight ends in 2007, and while backup Ben Hartsock had his moments, Finley is the kind of special talent that could have the position sewn up for a long time. The NFL committee which hands down pre-draft evaluations gave Finley a fourth-round grade, but NFLDraftScout.com Senior Draft Analyst Rob Rang recently told me that he wouldn't be surprised if Finley went in the second round.
Man, has Ben Troupe fallen hard or what...
I love the spread offense comments-I am sure the scouts are going to love watching the SEC the next few years as more and more teams move to it. I still think the NFL is going to run it a lot more than it is now.
I think the easy solution to the timeout thing is simply to tell coaches and officials that if a coach clearly and intentionally calls a time out so close to the start of the play as to cause the play to be run but for no purpose, the coach will be flagged with unsportsmanlike conduct, similarly to calling 2 timeouts in a row in order to ice the kicker.
It's weird that Martz was able to use his running backs 6 ways to Sunday, but can't find any room in his offense for a TE.
Re 1:
I think NFL defense are in general too fast for the spread offense. The Patriots were only able to do it with one of the best receivers, one of the best QBs, one of the best slot receivers, and the addition of a very good TE, and several #2 receivers to choose from. So there might be two or three teams a year that could conceivable run it, but I don't think it's going to sweep the NFL like it has college.
Do you remember what happened when Steve Spurrier ran the spread offense in Washington? I do. Spurrier often left Patrick Ramsey in packages with 5 blockers empty back sets, and sometimes 4 wide, 1 RB ( 6 blockers).
Now Ramsey is a big and tough quarterback but the guy almost got KILLED. He was beaten up badly and you could argue that constantly being beaten down stunted his growth.
Well, you certainly can't have the qb running with the ball as often as they do in some spread offenses in college, not unless you want to carry six quarterbacks on the roster and practice squad.
The irony of drive blocking becoming a lost art as the passing game gets more emphasis is that it hurts the passing game, given that the best way to slow down the speedy edge rusher is to drive him off the ball five yards a few times.
well I was thinking more of the Texas Tech or Hawai'i spread, not West Virginia.
I still think a team like Detroit can do it in the NFL and they should more often...I don't think you can line up and run on every down in the NFL, but a perhaps a handful of series a game.
RE: "If you prevent players from calling timeouts at certain points of special teams plays"
Yeah but... no one's saying the players shouldn't be able to call timeouts. It's the opposite: let the players call the timeouts, but not the coaches. The way it used to be.
you all are seriously misunderstanding the word spread. hawaii runs a spread offense, new england ran a lot of spread offense. but those are both complex read systems based on intelligent, accurate qb's. the "spread" that is being run in colleges now are incredibly rudimentary systems that rely on a hybrid rb/qb(like vince young) and being generally faster than the defense.
the former is slowly gaining popularity in the NFL, the latter will likely never be adopted in any significant way as its too dumbed down and it gets your qb hit too often.
re: #7
And they'd only have to disallow coaches calling timeout in the last 3 seconds before the play clock runs out. Nobody cares when its called otherwise.
However, I do think that even without rules changes those last second field goal TO's won't be too popular in the long run. Coaches got lucky. What if the kicker MISSES the first one, then makes the second? Hey coach, you just lost us the game!
And they’d only have to disallow coaches calling timeout in the last 3 seconds before the play clock runs out. Nobody cares when its called otherwise.
That isn't necessarily true since most FGs take place before the play clock has went all the way down.
bigtime rumor:
DeAngelo Hall to the Giants for the 31st pick.....
Vince Young says he has "pull with the Titans" pertaining to who they draft? He's far from having proven himself, I'd think a couple of Titans front office people might have a problem with him saying that.
Vernon Davis? The answer seemed to be: Don’t be surprised to see him spread out wide more often.
Okay, I've posted that this is the obvious use of Davis like a dozen times in threads over the past year. In every game I've seen, he's an absolutely horrid blocker. And then they'd throw a 4 yd safety valve to him.
Get him the ball heading downfield into the secondary and he can earn that high draft pick. He could be TO, w/o the lunacy.
13,
"He could be TO, w/o the lunacy"
Yeah, but that wouldn't be any fun...
However, I do think that even without rules changes those last second field goal TO’s won’t be too popular in the long run. Coaches got lucky. What if the kicker MISSES the first one, then makes the second? Hey coach, you just lost us the game!
Or you know, a defense makes a key stop to beat an undefeated team, but the Coach's timeout nullifies it. (As a Patriots fan, in hindsight I'd rather they lost that game)
The one rule I'd love to see changed is the "Too many men" penalty. Make it like hockey. If a player is within a couple of yards of the sideline, running off the field, and makes no attempt to influence the play, there should be no penalty.
I don't want to beat up on Peyton Manning or the Colts, but the "Too many men" rule was never a problem until a few years ago, when Peyton would just go for the five free yards several times a game when a substituted player couldn't reach the sideline in time. Now every offense does it. Let's get away from the letter and more to the spirit of this rule.
#8 you are correct. Brady ran a lot of 4-5 WR sets but his film study/quick reads and understanding of defenses allowed him to do that.
Remember when Brees ran the spread at Purdue? How about Tim Couch?
The NFL will not get overrun by Pat White/Mike Vick types anytime soon. That IS unless ( as will allen points out) teams keepp 6 quarterbacks on their roster.
The option never worked in the NFL because getting smashed by 280 pound defensive ends/250 pound linebackers an additional 15 times per game isn't a good idea.
Patrick Ramsey in Washington is exactly why average quarterbacks can't run the spread and they are lucky to be alive afterwards.
If Deangelo Hall goes to the Giants for the #31 pick, I am going to be SERIOUSLY pissed off.
Re: 15
I'm biased on this, but the reason that the Colts can get the penalty is that they seldom huddle. The quick pace doesn't allow opposing defenses to rotate players in for breathers or for specific downs. So since the Colts have developed a base offense that can evolve to the situation, we need to slow the game down to allow defenses to freely substitute?
I don't disagree that offenses have gotten way to many rule changes that are designed to appeal to the masses. But this isn't one that should change.
I doubt defensive teams try to substitute when the Colts go no-huddle. I would think everybody knows better. However, if that is the case, I see your point...however, we're not slowing the game down, or allowing free substitution for the defense...we're just giving the departing player a little bit of a "grace" zone a yard or three from the sideline where if he's hustling off the field and his back's turned to the play, we're not handing a free-five yard penalty to the offense.
15, 16
If an offense makes a substitution, then they have to allow the defense to make a substitution, and 12 men on the field cannot be called. Also, even though Peyton does get quite a few 12 men on the field penalties, it's still risky and I've seen many times in the past 3 or 4 years when the Colts waste a play by running into the line when the 12th defender got off the field. As a Colts fan I agree that it is a cheap move and I'd like to see them use it less, but there's no reason to change the rules.
re: spread
i have often thought of how the spread's proliferation in the college game is hurting scouting for QBs as the skills of a top tier college Qb don't always match a pro QB. The slower and slightly smaller college defenses allow for a running Qb to be more effective. i never considered the impact to the o-line. I think it is a joke that dropback passers now have fewer colleges to consider for preparation for the pro game. It's like they all will end up at USC or ND. Consider the fact that the frosh QB stud prospect Mallett from Michigan is transerring because Rodriguez is a "spread" offense guy. Michigan just lost a former #2 QB prospect because their coach runs a system and won't work with what he has.
Re 15:
I don't think adding another judgement call for the refs to worry about is something the NFL wants to, or should, do.
#9: That happened to the Broncos this year. I think it was at the end of the first half, thought. Shanahan did one of his late TO calls and the kicker missed. Then he nailed the second one.
And I agree about the 12 men on the field. Don't call it if they guy is running off. I don't know how to word it, but everyone can tell the difference between the defense having an extra man during the play and a guy trying to get off the field who doesn't affect the play at all.
13-
Vernon Davis picked a fight with Larry Allen in training camp last year. Larry Allen. Maybe not TO level of lunacy, but still...
As someone suggested previously, do we want to put another subjective call into the refs hands? Where do you draw the line, as long as he is headed off the field? If he is with 10 yards of the sideline?
Is it a cheap ticky tack foul, absolutely yes. Is it a valid tactic to use if the offense sees they have a mismatch and want to continually exploit it, again absolutely yes. If the defense realizes the have a terrible mismatch, they can call a time out. They can also call a timeout if the defensive players need a rest.
Re #9/22
It was TEN@DEN MNF, and did happen at the end of the first half. Bironas missed a long FG, but Shanny had called TO. On the second chance, Bironas made it. Alas, it didn't cost DEN the game, as they still won 34-20.
And also some plays get run 'inadvertently' due to a late timeout that aren't field goals... just on field goals it looks a lot more dramatic
If Schefter really that short? It looks like you could kill him.
#27 -- Yes.
I don’t want to beat up on Peyton Manning or the Colts, but the “Too many men†rule was never a problem until a few years ago, when Peyton would just go for the five free yards several times a game when a substituted player couldn’t reach the sideline in time. Now every offense does it. Let’s get away from the letter and more to the spirit of this rule.
The spirit of the rule is actually the way they're using it. If an offense isn't huddling, and doesn't substitute, then the defense has no right to substitute either. If they need to, they can call timeout, or eat the 5 yard penalty.
Offenses have a few "built-in" advantages over the defense - that's the way the game is. None of them really make up for the numbers advantage the defense has over the offense due to the QB being forced to drop back and the ineligibility of the offensive line.
20. You would think that if so few teams are running pro offenses that maybe a few smart pro coaches would move down to the college ranks and start running pro offenses.
Think about it. You have easier hours, similar money, god status, and you get to cherry pick the top blue chip QB/WR recruits in the country who want to go pro in a few years.
Sort of like the 3-4, 4-3 defensive talk going on. The fact that not many teams are running the pro offenses is to the advantage of the teams actually running it.
Disadvantages: It is harder to run, and once your top QB/WR graduate, there will be a learning curve for the next crop.
Advantages: You have a better chance at recruiting super blue chip talent QB/WRs, and opposing teams won't have as much film/practice against real pro offenses in season.
#6,8,others:
Back in the early '90s, the Oilers, Falcons and Lions all ran the Run & Shoot, which was very similar to the modern spread offenses (although with less emphasis on the Shotgun). Gradually, it fell out of favor, but now it appears to be making a comeback.
It's just like the 3-4 defense, which was also popular around the same time, then sort of went away for a while, and is now rising in popularity again. The NFL tends to be cyclical. I wouldn't be surprised to see a return to the old offenses that used 2 true HBs on the field at the same time, as opposed to 1 HB and 1 FB, which is virtually the only 2-back formations you see these days.
31. Maybe they will bring back Warren Moon and Jeff George too?
Seattle was running a "pro set".
#5, 16
I've kind of been thinking about that one ... if you've got running quarterbacks like Pat White, Vince Young, etc., on your roster, why NOT have three or four (though certainly not six) quarterbacks who you can rotate in and out of the game, kind of like what most teams do with running backs? The salaries for QBs like that would have to be a bit lower since they wouldn't be every-down players like most QBs are, but if teams found a way around the salary considerations, could a multi-running-QB system like that work? (And there would still be room for regular drop-back passers on the team ... it's just that they would be rotated in and out as change-of-pace type players rather than playing every down or sitting every down.)
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