So, how many people out there would have taken Pacman for a third rounder?

#1,

Not me. I'm firmly in the camp that believes Jones isn't going to play much football in the future. If he gets re-instated, I don't think he'll last long, and you'd like to think that a 3rd round pick is worth more than that. If he stays away from trouble he's a terrific pick-up, but you can't be optimistic about that.

Awesome move. Awesome move. Practically no risk, and if he plays anything like his former self you get a top flight corner for dirt cheap. Whats the worst case scenario, the Cowboys lose a 4th rounder for nothing. Thats a pretty small price.

I would take Pacman Jones in a heartbeat. If he comes back, Cowboys win big on this trade. if he doesnt, cowboys get their pick back the next season.

1. As a Patriots fan I wish they had bid their third rounder on Jones.

So are the Cowboys now a really good shrink away from being the best team in the NFC?

I think Jones is still too young to get his head straight and avoid distractions. Being the cause (whether direct or indirect) of what he was involved in and who he is involved with is still too risky.
It'd be a fun study to get a metric here that determines the age of maturity for "thug" athletes. Much like runningbacks typically break out at age X, QB's peak at age Y, and drug dealers and violent offenders settle down and contribute their best football on and off the field after a age Z, if at all.
My guess is that it's upwards of 30.

Tank and Pac-Man together, what could possibly go wrong?

I'm still not sure about this move. We need to know a little more about Goodell's stance on Pacman's reinstatement. If he's not goingt o be back this year, I don't like it. JJ has sent a message that he'll cave to the whims of every crybaby out on the market.

To completely flip-flop from the Jared Allen trade thread, I like this one in terms of risk/reward. High risk, sure, but high reward, and very low cost.

And may I be the first to make the standard (at least in this thread) "hope Irvin told him where all the good strip clubs are" comment.

I don't understand why the Titans would be willing to send a pick back to Dallas. If the Cowboys want to throw the dice on Pacman, why should Tennessee bail them out if they come up snake-eyes?

I like this pick up also.

4th round pick isn't too much, and if it doesn't pan out, well, how many 4th rounders generally pan out anyway? No more risky than just using the 4th rounder on a player, but with a higher potential payoff.

10

My guess is that the Cowboys wouldn't throw those dice without that guarantee from the Titans.

re10 because league likes to bend over backwards for Cowboys.

I don't think Pacman will contribute much this year. But then I don't think a 4th round pick has a real good chance of contributing much this year either. So w/e, lets roll the dice on this one.

I just hope that pick next year isn't too high.

Don't worry, T.O will take him under his wing

This is not high risk at all. They aren't taking on a potentially cancerous superstar. Pacman is generally seen as a good teammate. He's just horrendously stupid off the field. If he gets suspended again, the Cowboys busted on a 4th round pick. No big deal.

Horrifically one-sided trade for the Cowboys. It's near-zero risk for an enormous reward. Even if Pacman is just an above average CB next year, it's still a gigantic steal. What are the odds they draft someone in the 4th round that would even be an average player next year? He's going to get reinstated, and the Cowboys can void his contract if he gets in trouble again and get a draft pick back.

to add - another example of a team fleecing another team because of a "character" movement. "Character" doesn't matter unless you do something really bad (like Vick) or suck. No one cares that Leonard Little got several DUIs. Pacman did something bad, but it doesn't look like he's going to face any state or federal charges, so now a team willing to take low-character guys gets a near-free star player.

great move by the cowboys, who are doing a pretty effective job of building the modern version of Madden's Raiders.

They basically get a free flyer on a guy who can be among the top corners in the game. And he's incredibly cheap!

#9 That was my first thought as well. I've heard that Dallas has the best strip clubs in all the land. It'll be interesting.

18
I care, not that it matters. L. Little killed someone while driving drunk then was caught drunk driving again and got off with a speeding ticket when he should have been sent to prison. F*ck Leonard Little.
Sorry for the thread hijack.

Re # 21:

I'm with you, Lagfish - great post.

re19
duffernce is Raiders won a Superbowl. Cowboys cant even win a playoff game.

The duffernce, Joe, last I checked is a hand's worth of rings as opposed to two fingers. Let's cast aside history, though; what leads you to believe that Dallas can't win? The Seattle game was a huge letdown, but that could happen to anyone. Romo played a good game, so don't bring up nerves or the lack of clutchiness. This year, they played the eventual Super Bowl champion, and Strahan proclaimed after the super bowl that Dallas gave them the best game of any team in the playoffs.

re #18

Good point. It seems teams willing to sacrifice a bit of bad publicity will now be able to pick up pro bowl caliber headcases for next to nothing.

I don't get why some of you are so confident he's going to be re-instated. The fact that the Titans were willing to give him up for a 4th pretty much indicates that there is no way he plays this year.

re24 Cowbys only have two more rings than Raiders. Raiders won 3 superbowls two in Oakland and one as Los Angeles Raiders.

Dallas cant win. Let see they dont have a good coach and the Qb is too cocenred about Jessican Simpson.
Maybe if he focuces more on football he will do better when it counts most.

I bet old Jerrah has a pretty good track on Pacman's reinstatement. The fact that Pacman has given up lots of guaranteed money may also help the reinstatement, as it indicates contrition/punishment.

ugh. are the cowboys trying to become the new bengals? First the sign tank johnson now this.

So much for the cowboys caring about character. I'd never touch this guy if im ever a gm. The Cowboys are slowly collecting some thugs. (Tank Johnson, JOnes). I mean who cares about character. I'd hate rooting for a team that has good citizens.

When do the Cowboys bring in Jeff George as a back-up?

27,

Actually quite the opposite, its practically a guarantee he gets reinstated. If not we get the pick back anyway. Basically a no-risk move.

30,
Look, the NFL is filled with thugs. Any teamhas loads of them. Jerry has just figured that he would capitalize on a market inefficiency where character concern guys are undervalued. Its worked out pretty well with TO and Tank. Frankly I'm surprised more teams weren't interested. I would have felt terrible if the Cowboys had let him get away to a division rival. Huge steal.

I don't think I'm jealous at the Cowboys.
As a Steelers fan, I know we need upgrades in the secondary, but not him.

#33

Yeah, it works out great, until you get a critical mass of bad guys on your team and off-the-field problems start to affect on-the-field performance. Ask the Marv Lewis Bengals. Or the Jail Blazers.

The risk of taking on a guy like Pacman Jones is a bit more than losing a 4th round pick or a bit of money. There's a better-than-insubstantial chance that he does something stupid in the middle of the season, gets suspended, and ends up costing his team cap space and roster flexibility, as well as potentially creating a huge distraction. Add to that the fact that he hasn't played organized football in more than a year and there's a decent chance he's not going to come back as the near-elite player he was with the Titans, and I don't see any reason to conclude that this was a completely one-sided deal. The Titans under Fisher/Reese/Reinfeldt have generally been one of the better-run organizations in football. Do you really think they got dumb all of a sudden?

Re: 35

My thinking on this is largely the same. You collect enough guys with demonstrated bad judgement and eventually bad things are going to happen. It's more likely that they will influence other players on the team in a negative way. The team has zero credibility when it comes to off field disipline.

Ultimately, I think the Cowboys will be better off if Goodell doesn't reinstate Jones. I suspect the second year of the Wade Philips era is going to have enough drama without adding Jones to the mix.

And Dallas has run a crummy organization? They've clearly learned their lessons from the Jimmy Johnson days and it sounds like they have mechanisms in place to help these sorts of players.

Adam Jones was obviously a poison pill for the Titans, so it makes sense for them to move him. If other teams are too pious to take that chance, then fine.

RE: 33

Look, the NFL is filled with thugs. Any teamhas loads of them

Name a single 49er thug.

I mean, to be fair, name a single 49er, but if any team has loads of them, you should be able to find one.

Particularly as a brit, so there's no way that anything a professional athlete can do will personally affect me, so I should be willing to trade character for wins, but I really would rather root for a losing team with decent human beings on it, than a winning team filled with scumbags (Leonard Little, come on down...)

By the way, I wouldn't count TO as a scumbag. I've always liked his competitiveness, and still miss him in Red and Gold.

The problem the Cowboys have taken on in Pacman isn't just whether or not they get a good return on a draft pick, they have decided to trade for a player who is currently suspended for his indiscretions and has committed further indiscretions and/or lied to the commisioner and/or made pleas in court to charges that were pending on him at the time of his last suspension. There isn't an ice cube in hell's chance that he plays next year. I would be fairly suprised if he ever plays in the NFL again.

What would concern me if I were a Cowboys fan is that Jerry Jones might just have traded for the right to be fined more draft picks. I suspect that if Pacman pulls even more dumb crap Goodell will fine the team that decided his name needed to be associated with the NFL. The draft pick fine has so far been his favorite method of punishing teams who harm the league, aquiring Pacman is effectively giving the finger to Goodell and his player conduct policy.

If I were a Dallas fan I would find it very difficult to root for this guy. OK you might get him cheap for a year, but do you think he is going to be content to play his whole career (should he have one) for a tiny contract when it is compared to his on-field value? There are a great many ways this could blow up in Jerry Jones' face. Oh well he could always go and get more plastic surgery.

Did anyone call twice convicted Jared Allen a thug in the other thread?

We should of. My team (Seahawks) just had their DT arrest for DV and i think he should be cut if he is guilty. I'd rather have my team less talented then have one thug on my team.

So Jerry Jones traded for a guy for which there isn't an "ice cube in hell's chance" of playing next year? Really? None at all? So you know more than Jerry Jones does? Cool.

I think Jerry Jones would sign Rae Carruth if he thought it would help the cowboys win games.

I'm really hoping this trade blows up in Jerry's face.

So Jerry Jones traded for a guy for which there isn’t an “ice cube in hell’s chance” of playing next year? Really? None at all? So you know more than Jerry Jones does? Cool.

Pacman was suspended prior to any charges or pleas that have occurred in this past year. There are at least two pleas he made in that period and in addition he is now being accused of ordering the hit that left a man paralysed. He has plead to biting a police officer and to a limited level of involvement in the fracas in Vegas. So far he has received no sanction from Goodell for these indiscretions, which have undoubtedly dragged the league's name through the mud.

When Tank Johnson was punished (and Jared Allen and most other fools who incurred Goodell's wrath) his league punishment followed whatever judicial punishments the courts handed out. Only Vick was singled out to be suspended ahead of his conviction and that stems from the public relations nightmare brewing and from his telling of lies to the commissioner. It seems Pacman may also have mislead the commissioner, and has had at least two run-ins with the law since his last meeting with Goodell. There isn't a single good reason for Goodell to allow Pacman back into the league this year.

The very fact that the trade would only go through after the Titans agreed to send a pick back to the Cowboys should Jones not be reinstated simply validates my contention that he won't be playing football this fall. Jerry Jones doesn't beleive he will be playing this year either. He will be paying him though. He believes the gamble is worth it to get the rights to a player of Pacman's calibre, in three or four years he may have been proven correct, but it will look foolish come February when I might have played more football than Pacman.

See, Cool.

Super cool. From the DMN: "'I'm encouraged by some of the things I'm hearing,' Mr. Goodell said. 'But I will meet with him before training camp starts to gauge personally some of the things he's doing.'" Does that sound like "no chance"? Not really.

Will Jones actually play? I have no idea. But do the actions of Dallas and Tennessee actually suggest that there's no chance of it? Not really. It simply confirms what we'd expect: that the two teams are trying to be realistic.

Ice f***ing cold.

Do the actions of the two teams really indicate that Pacman will play this year (or ever)?

When he plays he is a top five corner and a lethal return man. That much is fairly indisputable. He is about to be/has just been traded for a fourth round pick. Is that really a realistic trade if he were about to deliver on those skills for his new team? Jerry Jones has effectively purchased 'Pacman futures'. He thinks they will be worth more in a few years, like any kind of speculation it may turn out they are worth nothing.

My initial thought of the worst case was that Jones just would not play. That would mean they give up a 4th round pick this year (28th pick of 4th round, right?) for a 4th round next year (some cost, but likely to be higher in the 4th round, right?). However, it could have complications with team morale or PR. I doubt it will.

How likely is it that Pacman will not play? I am fairly convinced that he is not a wise person. When going to assure the commisioner of his intentions in NY he visited a strip club the night before (very publicly, too, so the commisioner had to know about it). Doh! Unless Pacman suddenly gets married and has children (see Sean Taylor before his untimely death) or finds faith/religion I am not confident in his desire, let alone ability, to live a clean and safe life.

However, on the field there is the potential for a 4th round pick (and some mid-round conditional pick next year, which is basically what I suggested a couple weeks back, BTW) you get a potential top level CB/return guy. Dallas knows that they do not have TO, let alone Glenn, performing at a top level for long. They need to win now (preferably, while restocking). Pacman Jones may help them do this. Can they hire a nerdy guy to be his (and another for Tank) escort. The only acceptable off-hours activities include working out, church, studying extra film (nerdy guys might be able to help with this), and Guitar Hero/Madden.

I personally think it's disgusting how Goodell (which is Latin for "intoxicated by his own power") keeps stringing Jones along. As if a year's suspension isn't enough for a guy that's never been convicted.

re#16:
Dude, you owe me a new keyboard and it hurts to have coffee shoot out your nose when you laugh......that was frickin funny!

Now, the Pokes can trade up and grab McFadden. With TO, Tank and PacMan to show him the ropes they'll have him on the straight and narrow in no time.

Maybe Brian Blades can make a comeback with the Cowboys, they need some receiving help.

"Look, the NFL is filled with thugs. Any teamhas loads of them."

What? No.

Just to add a completely meaningless stat to the discussion: 28 NFL teams have had players arrested since the beginning of 2007. The four who haven't: 49ers, Chiefs, Cardinals and Cowboys.

Jerry Jones has effectively purchased ‘Pacman futures’. He thinks they will be worth more in a few years, like any kind of speculation it may turn out they are worth nothing. Jimmy-- I agree. It's a huge speculation, and Jerry Jones worked to minimize the risk of Adam Jones not being reinstated by having the pick traded back. Also, as i understand it, none of Jones' money is guaranteed. Thus, even if Adam effs up mid-way through the season (please no!), there's no long-term cap hit. My gut feeling is that Adam gets reinstated. As for him lasting more than 8 games before effing up? THAT, I can't say...

You are all overlooking the obvious... Jerry JONES? Adam JONES? Hello, McFly, clearly Pacman is Jerry's illegitimate offspring and he's just trying to do right by him after denying him his rightful place all this time. Paternal guilt. Jerry will show him the sights in Dallas, all the best plastic surgeons... like when Montgomery Burns adopted Bart Simpson. "No, no no, son, you don't throw a fistful of singles at the strippers in Big-D. You throw jewelry. Fling the bling, baby."

I mean, come on, there can't be that many people in America named Jones, can there? Hunh?

As if a year’s suspension isn’t enough for a guy that’s never been convicted.

Uhh, dude.. the main reason he's never been convicted of anything is that he keeps pleading guilty every time he's charged with something.

There is a mountain of evidence to suggest that Pacman is a bad dude. Goodell has every right to keep a guy like that out of his organization.

Oops, chiefsjoe is me. Ruined my joke!!! Darn!!!! ;)

the main reason he’s never been convicted of anything is that he keeps pleading guilty every time he’s charged with something.

Laughable. When one pleads guilty it's a conviction. Dude. He hasn't done that.

There is a mountain of evidence to suggest that Pacman is a bad dude. Goodell has every right to keep a guy like that out of his organization.

That's the problem- the system that is in place essentially gives one person the power to determine if one is a "good" or "bad" person, and he determines whether a player is allowed to be employed by one of the 32 franchises based on that.

We're all opposed to dictatorships, right? That is, unless a dictatorship satisfies our need to step on Adam Jones' neck. Then the end justifies the means.

53. The 49ers recently had a guy arrested. So make that 3 teams left.

Why isn't anyone asking the question about diminishing skills? Pacman has been out of the game for an entire season and will likely miss this year's practices too. The speed at which the game changes I wouldn't be be surprized if he has trouble marching up the learning curve when he gets back.

If Pac Man has never been convicted of anything how come he he was in trouble for violating his probation in 2005 for not contacting his probation officer?

Laughable. When one pleads guilty it’s a conviction. Dude. He hasn’t done that.

Apparently, you don't understand basic criminal law, so let me explain this - if you plead guilty to a crime, you can't be convicted of it, because conviction is something that happens when a case goes to trial, which doesn't happen with guilty pleas. Pacman has pleaded guilty, which you'd know if you'd made any effort to inform yourself whatsoever:

http://www.courttv.com/people/2007/1207/pacman_jones_ap.html

That’s the problem- the system that is in place essentially gives one person the power to determine if one is a “good” or “bad” person, and he determines whether a player is allowed to be employed by one of the 32 franchises based on that.

No. The system that is in place gives one person, the guy in charge of the NFL, the power to decide based on external factors whether he wants a certain person working for him or not. This is not any different than a private company refusing to hire someone with a lengthy criminal record. Jones has already pleaded guilty on multiple occasions and has been arrested more than a dozen times at the age of 24. There is no judge in America that would not consider that legitimate grounds for an employer to deny employment.

62: You are wrong. When you plead guilty, the judge then "decides" if you are guilty, thus a conviction almost inherently insues (unless the judge for some reason believes the guilty plea should not be allowed). See link for random website I found to back my statement. I mean, think about it, when you apply for a job, it always asks "have you ever been convicted of a felony?" Trust me, they want to know your guilty pleas too.

And as for your statement about his criminal record, the NFL commish is stepping over the line in my opinion. Because one of these guys he suspends will be found innocent, and there will be consequences. There is a reason why you are innocent until proven guilty in America.

Also, this is a 4th round pick we are talking about. Even talking about the 4th round pick is like talking about the fact that you paid the guy a dollar for the BMW (that might not be allowed off the lot). And you are forgetting, if you arent allowed to take the BMW off the lot, the guy is GIVING YOU THE DOLLAR BACK. because the investment was just so high that you need insurance under the circumstance that it doesnt turn out the way you want.

Wow. Pretty lame that my post was deleted, that took a long time to write. Just because I said a lot of guys in the nfl are thugs? Or because the name was chiefsjoe? Not really being very fair there, just because there's some disagreement...