Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

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» Film Room: Chris Harris

Is Harris one of the league's top cover corners, or a product of the system in which he plays? Cian Fahey says the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

28 Apr 2009

Audibles at the 2009 NFL Draft, Part III

compiled by Bill Barnwell

We covered first round of the draft in Part I and Part II of this edition of Audibles. Our Round Two Audibles takes us from the New York Times to ESPN.com. We start with the best pick of the Lions' draft...

Lions, No. 33, Louis Delmas, Safety, Western Michigan

Mike Tanier: Delmas is a square peg. He's an in-the-box safety who is at his best when taking on blockers, shedding blocks, and hammering ball carriers. He's also a good cherry picker who reads plays well, stays around the football, and can pick off passes. He's like Rodney Harrison, only in bonsai: he's only 5-foot-11 and under 200 pounds, so his stack-and-shed game may not translate to the NFL. At the same time, he lacks the top-end speed needed to excel as a deep safety.

Bill Barnwell: Wow. Great pick for the Lions.

Philly Homer: Detroit doesn't make good picks. Are we sure that guy doesn't have a wooden leg?

Big Jgke: Correction: The Detroit Lions drafted a Louis Delmas Fathead.

Tom: Steve Young claimed that "putting a face on the defense" -- a.k.a. Maualaga -- would've been better than Delmas. This is "analysis???"

Patriots, No. 34, Patrick Chung, Safety, Oregon

Mike Tanier: Chung won't help the Patriots' numbers against deep receivers much, but he should free Brandon Meriweather from in-the-box responsibilities, allowing the more athletic Meriweather to play deep safety. Bill Belichick will protect Chung and keep him from doing what he's not capable of.

putnamp: Oh man, Chung to NE -- that's gonna piss off the Field Gulls guys isn't it?

Doug Farrar: Awesome kid. Great box player with some coverage ability. Thought he would have been a great for for Dallas as well.

Anonguy: Patrick Chung from Oregon eh? Need another headhunter back there with Roidney Harrison gone.

Bill Barnwell: Ooh, Roidney. I see what you did there.

MilkmanDanimal: "The Golden Corral Best Value Pick." You have got. To. Be. Kidding. Me.

Philly Homer: I'm so angry about Maclin I could go to a budget buffet restaurant.

St. Louis, No. 35, James Laurinaitis, LB, Ohio State

Mike Tanier: Steve Spagnuolo gets a defensive quarterback with this pick. Spags is a long way from building a Giants-style defense, but Laurinaitis and Chris Long give him two young tone-setters. The Rams still have needs in the secondary. It will be interesting to see how they fill them.

Drunkmonkey: Laurinaitis is petitioning the NFL to allow him to wear the Spiked shoulder pads.

Philly Homer: Laurinaitis sounds like something you get in the Browns' training room.

The NFL rep announcing second-round picks notes that the "St. Louis Cardinals" made the pick...

Vince Verhei: SAINT LOUIS CARDINALS? It's been 20-some years!

MilkmanDanimal: I look forward to the picks of the Houston Oilers, Baltimore Colts, and Decatur Staleys.

Bill Barnwell: How come all the Just For Men commercials are of single parents?

SGreenwell: Bill, because married men don't need to worry about their looks. Their life is a living hell anyway.

Bill Barnwell:Thanks for reminding me to not get married, ever.

Vince Verhei: The "He Went To Jared" ad cinched my lifelong bachelorhood.

Browns, No. 36, Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

Bill Barnwell: Robiskie is the PERFECT pick for them.

Mike Tanier: Robiskie is a tall, hard working receiver who will make catches in a crowd. He's a possession receiver, but a second-tier one who will need to be picture-perfect in the pros. He's a lot like Muhsin Muhammad, and Eric Mangini's staff will be pleased if he becomes that kind of short target and crack blocker. Robiskie's lucky to be going to a team with a true No. 1 wideout, but he's not really ready to be a No. 2 target. Look for the Browns to run a very plodding, station-to-station offense next year. Kind of like the one they ran last year.

Ed: Maybe Robiskie can catch the balls when Edwards drops them.

The Broncos give up their 2010 first-round pick to trade up...

needawittyname: Denver's taking Everette Brown. If I didn't lose $100 earlier, I would bet it on that pick

Vince Verhei: Now Broncos take Brown/Butler. They also need help everywhere.

Bill Barnwell: I could believe that. I wouldn't have minded them picking him at 12 _or_ 18.

Drunkmonkey: Here we were thinking Brown was going to go at 18 to the Broncos. Silly us, they knew what they were doing all along!

Vince Verhei: This is GREAT news for Seattle. I think that could be a top ten pick next year.

Broncos, No. 37: Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest

Mike Tanier: Smith can make an immediate impact, both as a cover corner and a return man. He's only 5-foot-9, and his height no doubt scared a few teams off. He'll lose a few jump balls, but height is an overrated attribute in a cornerback. Smith's quick hips, good footwork, and (most importantly) instincts in zone coverage will make him a player.

Karl Cuba: McDaniels is in soooo far over his head

Doug Farrar: WTF?!?!?!?!? The Broncos are insane.

Bill Barnwell:I really like Alphonso Smith. I really do. I wouldn't give up a 2010 first rounder for him.

Big Jgke: Wouldn't seattle have blown the pick on a 5-foot-8 corner anyways?

Doug Farrar: Well, they can still blow a pick on a 5-foot-8 corner later.

Tom: Mort just said about the players Denver likes: "they like smart guys, they like tough guys, they like guys with ball skills." Is there ANY team in the league that doesn't want those players?

Drunkmonkey: Broncos already had 2 first rounders next year, so it really isn't that bad for them, but Seattle got a steal.

putnamp: Having 2 first rounders next year isn't an excuse to throw one away. That's *two first round picks*! That's a very good thing! You gave half of it away for less than value!

Anonguy: Josh McDaniels: I'm the what now? Bill? Bill? *meekly* Bill?

Bengals, No. 38, Rey Maualuga, LB, USC

Mike Tanier: Maualuga's best attribute may be his instincts, because the Bengals need to get smarter on defense.

Big Jgke: According to gruden: put maualuga in that bengals uniform, he'll look just like one of those Bengals.

Jaguars, No. 39, Eben Britton, OT, Arizona

Mike Tanier: The Jaguars must be working on an "all left tackle" formation, where everybody lines up to the left of everybody else. One thing's for sure: Last year's offensive line emergency in Jacksonville will not repeat this year. The plan right now is probably to start Eugene Monroe at right tackle, Tra Thomas at left, and develop Britton to replace Thomas. David Garrard and Maurice Jones-Drew give this draft an A-triple-plus.

Bill Barnwell: Jaguars take two tackles? Wow. No discount for buying in bulk, guys.

MilkmanDanimal: Can you buy offensive linemen at Costco? I had no idea.

terrapin: Jaguars taking two tackles could be good. If one fails you have another. Plus if they both work out you just got two bookends in one draft.

Bill Barnwell: But they have Tra Thomas.

KJT: They must be spooked from last year's injury fiasco on the OL.

The Patriots move up, and have back-to-back picks...

goodmorningcaptain: darius butler and connor barwin, d'you think?

Bill Barnwell: That'd be my bet.

Ed. note: I didn't see this during the chat, but I must compliment this man on his Slint reference.

Aaron Schatz: The Patriots must actually have Richard Thaler and Cade Massey in their draft room today. I believe they now have 637 second-round picks.

Patriots, No. 40, Ron Brace, DT, Boston College

Mike Tanier: This is a depth pick for a team that doesn't have many needs. Brace fits the Patriots' two-gap system nicely, and they can spot him as a 30-snap wave backup to Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork. He'll also help the team's short-yardage defense.

goodmorningcaptain: so a replacement for Wilfork if he doesn't get resigned, depth if he does ... you've got to imagine a pass rusher here? corner's not an enormous need right now, four thirds for the speculative picks (pat white?) later...

Patriots, No. 41, Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut

Mac: So they're using a Best Available New Englander philosophy here.

Mike Tanier: The Patriots acquired Leigh Bodden in free agency and just drafted Patrick Chung. Their secondary is a lot younger and faster than it has been in the last two seasons. With Tom Brady back, their goal will be to win shootouts. Both Bodden and Butler have big-play potential when they pick off a pass, which is a big advantage when opponents start passing like crazy to play catch-up. Don't be surprised if the Patriots find an offensive role for Butler, who played some receiver at Connecticut.

Karl Cuba: So considering that the Bills have Schobel and took Maybin, does this mean that Brown goes to SF?

Bill Barnwell: I had Brown to the 49ers with the tenth pick in my mock. If they get him in the second round AND add Crabtree, they may have had the best draft of anyone.

ambientdonkey: if any GMs are reading this and picking between now and pick 49 I'd like to tell you that everett brown drinks blended puppies.

Buffalo, No. 42, Jairus Byrd, CB, Oregon

Big Jgke: what the hell is a jairus byrd?

Bill Barnwell: Played alongside Patrick Chung. Not that familiar with him as a player.

Big Jgke: ugh. the bills make me sad. i'm oot - thanks FO guys

Mike Tanier: The Bills are always well-stocked with young cornerbacks who can also return kicks. Last year they drafted Leodis McKelvin, and while Byrd isn't quite in McKelvin's athletic class, he's more capable of pressing and jamming receivers. A sound pick for a team that must face the Patriots twice per year.

Panthers trade up into the 49ers' spot...

Sisqo from San Fran: Yep, they got a first. Smart move, they can get a QB in the first round next year w/ one of 2 picks w/ the more talented class then.

Panthers, No. 43, Everette Brown, DE-OLB, Florida State

Mike Tanier: Brown is another tremendous Seminole athlete, but he's more refined than most of his predecessors. He did a lot of stunting at Florida State, looping around another defender and crashing an inside gap. He also had some "containment" assignments and did a fine job reading screen passes and corralling scrambling quarterbacks. Brown is undersized for a defensive end, and many scouts question his ability to hold the point of attack. In the games I watched, Brown often did a good job of getting under his blocker's pads, so I don't thing run defense will be a major problem.

Dolphins, No. 44, Pat White, QB, West Virginia

Mike Tanier: You know how this will work. White will play a little receiver. He'll play a little quarterback. Ronnie Brown will line up in the Wildcat as a shotgun quarterback, White will be in the slot, and opponents will brace for triple-reverse option passes. The Dolphins needed a more traditional receiver, but they couldn't get an athlete in White's class with this pick, and Vontae Davis was a smarter selection early in the draft. So let the good times role with White, Brown, and every gadget play Tony Sporano's staff can dream up.

Mac: Okay, every time someone on ESPN mentions the Wildcat, drink.

KJT: Did you guys know that Miami used the wildcat last year? I think we're about to find out some more about it.

idle: I think pat white is an inspired pick and it's foolish to analyze this as a pick for a wr. even if that were the goal, his numbers are similar to randle-el's. add that to expanding the spread offense ... i think there's a lot to like there

Bill Barnwell: Those numbers don't mean anything.

Doug Farrar: I love the Pat White pick. We've been writing a lot about the Wildcat since that game against the Pats early last season, and he makes that offense much more expansive with his ability to run and throw.

Giants, No. 45, Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia

Bill Barnwell:Jesus. Because the Giants don't have enough linebackers.

chet: Do the Giants need ANYTHING? That's the problem.

Mike Tanier: Sintim projects as a strongside linebacker who will be best with his hand in the dirt in a 50-front. He's a limited player at this stage of his career. The Giants may develop him into a Mathias Kiwanuka type.

AlanSP: Sintim seemed like a much better fit in a 3-4 (where he played in college). His best skill is rushing the passer.

Zach: Sintim seems to be a real SLB, the Giants have a lot of WLB/MLB types I feel like.

Texans, No. 46, Conner Barwin, DE, Cincinnati

Mike Tanier: Barwin is a tight end who switched to defensive end in 2008. He had a strong year as a pass rusher, but he's a developmental player.

chet: Ryans, Cushing and Barwin all on the field at once?

Raiders, No. 47, Michael Mitchell, DB, Ohio

Tom: I have no idea who Michael Mitchell is, but I somehow know that he's fast.

Doug Farrar: Mayock has him as a seventh-round projection. There may be no Sierra Nevada left in the Bay Area.

Vince Verhei: GO RAIDERS GO!

Mayock: "I had never heard of him three weeks ago."

The NFL.com DraftTracker doesn't even have Mitchell's height and weight on file. This is AWESOME.

Bill Barnwell: NFL Draft Scout doesn't have a profile for him.

chet: I still don't know who Michael Mitchell is. Unless he was Hendrix's drummer.

Philly Homer: Jon Gruden just made the best "I worked for that guy" face ever.

Mike Tanier: Most sources list Mitchell as a late-round pick and a developmental player. His measurables, including a 4.71 40-time, don't stand out, so this isn't an Al Davis "athlete" pick. Just an odd pick by an odd team.

Doug Farrar: People say that it's ridiculous for writers to stick the Raiders with the speed preference, that it's just a big cliche, and even the Raiders aren't that stupid. Well...

Bill Barnwell: I was wrong. I misunderestimated their fetish.

MilkmanDanimal: Seriously, I couldn't love the Raiders anymore. Would it be wrong to request the a laugh track play every time they make a pick?

Vince Verhei: I don't know about a laugh track. I'd like some circus music. Maybe a calliope.

Bill Barnwell: No, it's sad. They're running a $500 million asset into the ground.

KJT: The Raiders just pulled in random people off the street at a tryout to see who could run the fastest 40. Michael Mitchell won.

Monkey Business: How much you want to bet that when Al Davis called Mike Mitchell, and MM went "Seriously? You're making me a 2nd round pick?" At what point does the NFL take the Raiders into conservatorship?

R.J.: If Al Davis was a fantasy owner in your league, you would've locked his team by now and kicked him out of the league.

ambientdonkey: Hell no, I'd invite Al back every year, my leagues play for money.

Matt: Maybe Al Davis just cares about more than scoring points. Like maybe he thinks it's not enough to just win the game, but that you have to do it faster than the other team. Like he's playing a game above the game. Or maybe he's just crazy.

Tom: From your friend and mine, The Cubs Fan, on Al Davis, with the best theory yet: I believe it's only amphetamines that keep him alive, so he just is pro-speed in all forms.

CNB: Oakland brought Mitchell in for a visit recently, so they actually did more homework on him than just checking his 40 time. He hits pretty hard, and uses his speed to make up for mistakes.

Vince Verhei: There were no other fast, mistake-prone hitters available?

There is no bad ending to the Michael Mitchell story. If he makes any kind of contribution, it's a genius pick. Otherwise, it's an A-plus bust.

With that, I must make my leave. The draft can't get any better, unless the Broncos draft a dead guy or something. Take care, all!

Doug Farrar: (What Vince doesn't know is that the Raiders are taking HIM in the third round).

Broncos, No. 48, Darcel McBath, S, Texas Tech

Mike Tanier: The Broncos are getting good value in the second round. McBath will learn the free safety position from Brian Dawkins, and he can serve as Dawkins' "legs," covering the deep middle zones that the former Eagles free agent can no longer handle.

Anonguy: McBath? McDonald's gives out baths now?

Seahawks trade up as the Bears move down...

Seahawks, No. 49, Max Unger, Center, Oregon

Mike Tanier: Unger has a tackle's quickness but a center's size, and he has less-than-ideal strength for the NFL. He was pushed around during Senior Bowl practices, and he would have a hard time switching from the screen-and-draw Oregon offense (which suited his abilities) to a piledriving offense like the Titans' or Vikings'. The Seahawks will use more zone blocking and short passing, and Unger has the potential to excel in a scheme that will allow him to slide out to the second level frequently.

Vince Verhei: I had to log back in after that Seahawks trade and pick. We'll see what they gave up, but this draft has been GREAT for them so far. Curry and Unger will both be Opening Day starters, and they added a first-rounder in 2010. Happy Happy Joy Joy!

Doug Farrar: Seahawks did take a center in 2005, but Chris Spencer has never lived up to his first-round status, and he's a free agent next year. I had them taking A.Q. Shipley in the fourth in my mock, but I'm overjoyed by this. Curry and Unger AND a first-round pick next year? Holy crap!

putnamp: Hey did anyone get around to making Oher/Unger jokes?

chet: What's the Oher-Unger on the number of Oher-Unger jokes?

Browns, No. 50, Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Georgia

Mike Tanier: With Brian Robiskie and Massaquoi on the roster to complement Braylon Edwards, the Browns will be able to spread the field with multi-receiver threats and frustrate opponents with crossing routes and passes into the short middle. They will also be able to run to the edge from passing formations, because Robiskie and Massaquoi can both block. Look for lots of tunnel screens, too. It's still not a great offense, in terms of talent. But the Browns look much better than they did yesterday, and their decision to slide down in the first round has resulted in some impressive second-round values. The only problem: Edwards and Massaquoi could form an Olympic-caliber hot potato team with their ability to drop passes.

Mac: Massaquoi can take over dropping passes if Braylon's traded.

It appears that the Cowboys pass on their pick...

Doug Farrar: BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Bill Barnwell: Amazing. Cowboys rule.

Philly Homer: I love watching a bunch of Cowboys brass looking bewildered.

Mac: They're waiting for Werder to arrive on a flight from Denver.

Tom: Dallas still doesn't know what to do since Michael Mitchell was taken.

Mike Tanier: The Cowboys had Giants and Eagles fans out of their seats when it appeared that they passed on their first pick of the draft here in round two. Browns fans were on their feet, too, as were some guys who appeared to be racquetball enthusiasts. The Cowboys have that effect on people.

The Cowboys didn't pass. They executed a last-second deal with the Bills, who took their second offensive lineman of the draft.

Bills, No. 51, Andy Levitre, OL, Oregon State

Mike Tanier: The Sporting News compares Levitre to Todd Herremans of the Eagles, and there are similarities. Herremans needed a full season (two?) to slide from tackle to guard, but he became a solid interior pass protector with enough quickness to pull out and block on Brian Westbrook sweeps. If he's not asked to take over at left tackle right away, Levitre can develop into a similar player.

MilkmanDanimal: Mayock: "In a phone both, I'm taking Andy Levitre." We play games inside phone booths now?

Mac: Dreading what Berman will do with Levitre's last name.

Browns, No. 52, David Veikune, OLB, Hawaii

Mike Tanier: Veikune is very one-dimensional. At this stage in the draft, he's a useful project. He works hard enough to get some coverage sacks, and he can fill a role on special teams. Still, he's a reach. The Browns have so many second-round picks that they might be running out of ideas.

Eagles, No. 53, LeShon "Shady" McCoy, RB, Pittsburgh

Mike Tanier: Those 36 touchdowns McCoy scored are just what the Eagles need: They were so bad in goal-to-go situations that it nearly knocked them out of the playoffs. McCoy is the complementary back Brian Westbrook has needed since Dorsey Levens got old. A fine pick, one that actually got the Eagles fans in the audience excited, including the guy in press row who should have known better (guilty).

Monkey Business: So the Eagles are going to have 3 super fast receivers that can't catch, and someone to spell Brian Westbrook who is NOTHING LIKE BRIAN WESTBROOK.

Bill Barnwell:Sal says McCoy is "Brian Westbrook Jr."

Red Hedgehog: I think the Eagles picked up LeSean just to make DeSean feel better about his first name.

Vikings, No. 54, Phil Loadholt, OT, Oklahoma

Mike Tanier: Loadholt went too high here, but he went to the right team. The Vikings can draft Percy Harvin and trade for Sage Rosenfels, but deep down, they just want to run the ball down everyone's throat. If he stays in shape, Loadholt can be a solid run-blocking guard or right tackle.

Doug Farrar: The guy I like in that line is Duke Robinson -- wonder where he'll go.

chet: I like practically anyone called "Duke" except "University"

Falcons, No. 55, William Moore, DB, Missouri

Mike Tanier: Moore is a hard-luck story among hard-luck stories, a young man who rose up from hardscrabble poverty and who plays with the passion of someone who knows what an opportunity he has. He may lack the natural instincts to be a top free safety, but he can fit as an extra linebacker and 3-3-5 type player.

Karl Cuba: Great pick by Falcons, Moore virtually lived the Wire as a kid.

chet: Does Moore appear in 'Melo's "No Snitching" DVD?

Moore is compared to a dinosaur of some sort...

Monkey Business: More players should be compared to dinosaurs. "Andre Brown can spit like a Dilophosaurus."

chet: Is Maclin a mastodonic-type receiver?

Monkey Business: Donald Brown is a great one-cut, north/south runner, much like a Velociraptor.

chet: I think the T-Rex comp was thrown out there for Sam Baker, and he turned out OK, health aside.

Colts trade up...

Colts, No. 56, Fili Moala, DT, USC

Mike Tanier: Moala doesn't have the tenacity to be a top run-stuffer, but his size will be an asset, and he can be dangerous stunting outside when Robert Mathis or Dwight Freeney twist.

Karl Cuba: Fantastic pick by the Colts, really fits their scheme, if they haven't changed it.

Anonguy: Who McShay projected as the number overall pick last year.

Jason C.: Can you define five technique DL?

Bill Barnwell: 5-technique DL plays between the tight end and the tackle, coming way off the edge.

Peter: between a four technique and a six technique imo

At this point, the chat breaks down into a discussion of beer and Boston hot spots, so it's mostly Tanier from here on out...

Ravens, No. 57, Paul Kruger, DE-OLB, Utah

Mike Tanier: Kruger is always around the ball. He anticipates plays very well and gets a great jump. He works very hard to keep blockers from latching on. I don't see him as a natural 10-sack pass rusher, but he's the type of defender who picks up five or six coverage sacks a year because he won't quit working to get to the quarterback.

The downside? He's a 23-year-old rookie (Mormon mission) with no spleen and only one kidney, a guy who suffered a collapsed lung just 15 months ago. He's also a man without a true position. The Ravens will slot him on the strong side and allow him to rush the passer on most downs. He'll never be great. But he'll fit in.

chet: Ravens apparently draft Nobel Economist Paul Krugman...

Patriots, No. 58, Sebastian Vollmer, OT, Houston

Mike Tanier: Vollmer could barely speak English when he arrived at the University of Houston. Language barriers have a way of disappearing when you are 6-foot-7 and 315 pounds. Vollmer is not NFL ready at all, but he still has room to grow, and athletes with his frame are rare. He projects as a right tackle.

CNB: Mayock on Sebastian Vollmer: "He's from Germany. They call him 'Sea-Bass,' don't ask me why..." It's not that hard to figure out, Mike.

Panthers, No. 59, Sherrod Martin, CB, Troy

Mike Tanier: A developmental pick. Martin grades out as a nickel or dime defender with the speed and size to get better. This is the kind of pick the Panthers can afford to make.

Giants, No. 60, William Beatty, OT, Connecticut

Mike Tanier: Both of Beatty's parents are pastors. Instead of living it up here in Manhattan, Beatty is spending draft weekend in Arizona, signing autographs and raising money for a new church. Why does sitting in a dark theater on a gorgeous April day typing about football players suddenly seem like such a shallow pursuit?

Beatty isn't your typical lineman. He sews. He paints so well that art colleges pursued him as relentlessly as football schools. He plays keyboard. He even cooks Thanksgiving dinner for teammates: 20-pound turkeys, sweet potatoes, trays of macaroni and cheese and desserts such as cheesecakes and rice pudding, according to an article in the York Daily Record.

The perfect Tom Coughlin lineman? Sounds like the perfect spouse.

Oh yeah, Beatty can play football, too. He's a solid pass blocker with good feet and a knack for reading the defender's moves and countering them. He needs a year in the weight room and some refinement, but he will develop into a solid left tackle.

Dolphins, No. 61, Sean Smith, CB, Utah

Mike Tanier: Having already selected Vontae Davis and signed former Cardinals cornerback Eric Green, the Dolphins could afford to gamble here. Smith isn't the hitter you want at safety or the technician you want at cornerback, but he can fill a role as a nickel safety who covers tight ends, or as a jump-ball corner to cover Terrell Owens in the end zone. I think the long-range goal in Miami will be to get him to bulk up and become an in-the-box safety.

Karl Cuba: 6 foot 4 214 lbs cornerback! Do they mean safety or have they never seen Lenny Walls play?

Bill Barnwell: The hope would be to build him as a hybrid.

Tennessee, No. 62, Sen'Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn

Mike Tanier: When Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville walked into Marks' Vigor, Ala., high school gym, Marks was dunking basketballs. Tuberville was so impressed with Marks' athleticism that he immediately offered him a scholarship.

That's all it takes? What if Marks shot a hole-in-one on a Par-5? Bowled a 300 game? Stacked 4,096 cups in 20 seconds? Some basketball skills translate onto the gridiron, but don't you think Tuberville should have waited to see Marks, you know, play some football before offering him the grand prize?

Tuberville knew what he was doing, and Marks grew into a quick, disruptive force in the middle of the Auburn defense. He did not, however, turn into a run-stuffing force or a sack machine. Marks is still very raw, a guy who will get latched to a blocker or knocked to the ground if he doesn't beat his lineman off the snap.

The Titans need to replace Albert Haynesworth. Marks isn't that kind of player, but he does have the athletic ability to force defenses to adjust their blocking schemes. This is a very good value pick at the end of the second round.

Anonguy: Well, he's ok. I mean, he'll never be another Fat Albert, but he could be good.

Arizona, No. 63, Cody Brown, LB, Connecticut

Mike Tanier: The difference between the second-tier pass rushers who thrive in the pros and those who become busts is often effort. Many NFL sacks are second-move sacks. For an athlete a notch below Dwight Freeney to excel, he must change directions and keep battling once the offensive tackle has him locked up. Brown is a high-motor player, so he should be able to succeed despite his deficiency against the run.

Bill Barnwell: Really like Cody Brown. Good pick there for the Cardinals. Shocked that Michael Johnson is still on the board, though.

The Broncos trade up to the final Day One pick to take...

Broncos, No. 64, Richard Quinn, TE, North Carolina

Mike Tanier: A tight end who catches eight passes per year? Where do we sign up?

We also chatted about Day Two on ESPN.com. For those of you who missed the chat or bailed during the hour-long technical difficulties, you can find the full archive here. Our player comments...

Jets, No. 65, Shonn Greene, RB, Iowa

Doug Farrar: Greene's an interesting guy, Well-known as a one-year wonder, some academic issues in his past, but he does have that punishing style most teams want in at least a platoon system. The compressing of multi picks to get a couple is odd, but I'm so in line with the Sanchez pick, I'm not too unhappy with the methodology.

Giants, No. 85, Ramses Barden, WR, Cal Poly

Doug Farrar: I like Barden, and he fits an obvious need with his 6-foot-6 frame. He can get downfield in a hurry with major strides. He's the jump-ball guy, the red-zone threat, and the security blanket Eli Manning hasn't really had since certain events unfolded. It shows that the Giants are aware of the value of that kind of receiver in their system and are willing to move on instead of holding fast to a player due to overwhelming offensive value. Smart move.

Bears, No. 140, Johnny Knox, WR, Abilene-Christian

Doug Farrar: He's an interesting speed guy who really flew up the boards at the Combine. The Bears are seriously addressing the receiver position, and I love the Iglesias pick. Iglesias is that reliable slot receiver who will be a quarterback's best friend. Guys like Knox benefit from big-armed quarterbacks, and there certainly is one in Chi-Town now...

Seahawks, No. 178, Mike Teel, QB, Rutgers

Doug Farrar: I find it interesting that they took Teel in the fifth with Central Washington's Mike Reilly still on the board. Reilly broke most of Jon Kitna's records at Central, the Seahawks were looking at him pretty hard there for a while, and I know that Greg Cosell (Producer of State Farm NFL Matchup) thought he was the fourth-best quarterback in the draft behind Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman. I'm not as familiar with Teel, but I do find the pick surprising.

49ers, No. 184, Bear Pascoe, TE, Fresno State

Doug Farrar: Pascoe's really not that guy -- he's almost the anti-Davis. A concussive blocker and an instant upgrade on special teams. More of a Will Heller or Jeff King than the kind of ostensibly elite athlete Davis is.

Colts, No. 201, Curtis Painter, QB, Purdue

Doug Farrar: I like Painter -- wrote the pool report about him at the Combine. What I liked about him was his ability to gauge the timing and speed of his throws for different receivers. That sounds like it's not a big deal, but you'd be surprised at how many big-armed guys are throwing airballs out there on the post corner.

Caleb (Indianapolis): Could Curtis Painter one day be a starter for the Colts?

Aaron Schatz: Yes, and that day will be known to everybody as "Week 17."

"Why wasn't _______ drafted?"

Ryan (Austin): I am a UT Alum. With that said I am really pissed that no one has picked Quan Cosby, yet. I see him as the next Eddie Royal. I mean have none of these guys ever seen him play? Some of these WRs going before him leave me scratching my head. Its like they would rather have "potential" over proven stuff. I am so confused?

Bill Barnwell: I would assume there are pudding-related red flags that are coming up with regards to his makeup.

It's not necessarily potential over proven stuff, Ryan -- it's a matter of understanding what a player can do at the pro level. Just because a player could do something at the college level does not necessarily mean that he's able to transfer that skill to the NFL. In this case, Cosby is under 5-foot-9 and slow. He's got good hands, but if you can't get separation from corners, you can't catch passes. Cosby's athleticism may have been enough for him to get separation at the college level, but what his drop is saying is that scouts don't think he'd be able to get separation or contribute on special teams as a professional.

Greg (CT): Why is Graham Harrell so looked over?

Bill Barnwell: Harrell, honestly, doesn't have the pedigree of an NFL quarterback. He's accurate, but he doesn't have a big arm and he's playing a totally different game in college. Maybe he'd be successful as a pro quarterback, but NFL coaches aren't inclined to take on such a project.

Matt (Pennsylvania): I can't believe Jordan Norwood (PSU) is still on the board. His hands are AMAZING. I figured with him showing them off at the skills challenge he would be a sure lock.

Bill Barnwell: Harold Miner was great in the dunk challenge, too...

Ignoring the question of whether Norwood's hands are actually that great, he's another undersized guy who can't run routes. If you want to make it in the NFL as an undersized guy, you have to be able to run routes better than taller guys and have better hands. Do you think Wes Welker would be in the league if he was sloppy in and out of cuts?

Mark (Ohio): What are the odds of Mount Union's Nate Kmic being drafted? I know he is a small kid from a small school but he has rediculous stats. 8074 career rushin yards, Most TDs in a Career - 130 - Most Rushing TDs in a Career - 125 - Most Points Scored in a Career - 780 -Most TDs in a Season - 44 -Most Points in a Season- 264 - Most Yards Rushing Season -2,790 All NCAA records for all divisions and as for his size here are a few guys with the same height or smaller Darren Sproles, Steve Slaton, DeAngelo Williams, Brian Westbrook, Maurice Jones-Drew, Warrick Dunn Last time I checked these guys weren't too bad

Bill Barnwell: He has ridiculous stats, sure, but they're at a lower level and don't mean anything in the pros. Those guys are small, but they all have great athleticism. Your list is a red herring; they don't succeed because they're that small, they succeed in spite of their height.

Cameron (IN): What about Marcus Thigpen from Indiana? He had a forty time in the 4.3's.

Bill Barnwell: I hear 4.46, and that was at his Pro Day. Unless a 40-yard dash happened at the Combine, it didn't happen. The method of timing is totally different. We have no idea what track the 40 came on. You're allowed to wear totally different shoes and attire. The reason the 40-yard dash works is because everyone does it under the same conditions. Otherwise, it's like comparing a SAT grade from 2009 to one from 1983. The context is totally different. Picking guys for their Pro Day 40 time is one of the stupidest decisions a team can make.

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 28 Apr 2009

69 comments, Last at 01 May 2009, 4:13am by masoch

Comments

1
by dangerdonkey (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 12:13pm

Sierra Nevada Torpedo: The official beer of the FO 2009 NFL Live Draft Blog!

2
by Herm? (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 12:35pm

The Michael Mitchell/Raiders section about laugh tracks and circus music inspired me to look up something I have not seen but am certain exists...much like a Black Hole:

Oakland Raiders with John Facenda narration, overdubbed by Yakety Sax.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBUCl0gT8dU

3
by DavidL :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 12:57pm

Monkey Business: Donald Brown is a great one-cut, north/south runner, much like a Velociraptor.

That may be the single greatest line ever written about the game of football.

4
by draco193 (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 1:22pm

Is there any precedent of a 5'9'' corner with average fourty time being taken in the first round?

5
by MilkmanDanimal :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 1:57pm

I believe the beer discussion should get its own Audibles, if for no other reason than it will allow us to continue making fun of Jimmy and his "only the beer I drink is good, everything else sucks" attitude.

Thanks to raiderjoe, Sierra Nevada is undoubtedly the Official Beer of Football Outsiders.

6
by Karl Cuba :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 2:30pm

I know Jimmy well and he's really not that much of a beer snob, he does like quite a large range of bitter/real ale. However, he does firmly believe that good beer comes from a proper pump.

12
by MilkmanDanimal :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:17pm

Liking a "large range" of a very small subset of beer does make you that much of a beer snob. And yes, I'm several miles off topic here, but, well, DVOA DVOA DPAR DYAR KCW Hole in Zone! There, that should buy me another paragraph.

The discussion at the time was his "the only good beer is gravity-pump real ale" vs. "seriously, open your eyes". He stated that U.S. brewing wasn't good, and several of us (including Mr. Barnwell) took him to task on that. Being willing to accept that just because it's not your personal preference doesn't mean it's not good is what one needs to not be a huge snob.

Also, KUBIAK KUBIAK Leigh Bodden Adrian Smith.

15
by Doug Farrar :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:41pm

Adrian Smith? I think you're getting your FO binkies (Adrian Wilson) and Iron Maiden guitarists confused.

16
by MilkmanDanimal :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:51pm

Yes, yes, I realized that when I was in the shower. So, when do I get my 80s metal advanced statistics, anyways? How do I prove Maiden was better than Metallica without numbers to back it up?

19
by Doug Farrar :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 4:21pm

I think they have a pretty similar DYAR -- fairly equivalent peaks and valleys. Early greatness, a long MOR sludge-grind, and a slight recent uptick. DVOA would slightly favor Metallica in my opinion, because "Master of Puppets" was more important and influential than "Number of the Beast". Maiden has a higher success rate because their crappy albums weren't as bad as Metallica's crappy albums. "Reload" was like Tarvaris Jackson's playoff game.

21
by Big-Hairy-Andy (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:04pm

If Reload was Tarvaris Jackson, St. Anger was Jake Delhomme.

38
by Doug Farrar :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 8:06pm

Very true.

22
by MilkmanDanimal :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:04pm

Hmmm . . . I'd argue that Metallica's suck period was longer, starting with the Black album and, from what I've heard, very recently turning around. So good, then suck, then good again . . . in a fit of cosmic irony, Metallica is Kurt Warner!

65
by masoch (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 8:34pm

In my Monsters of Metal Fantasy League, should I trade Iron Maiden for Pantera AND Megadeth? Personally, it feels like a steal to me.

67
by drobviousso :: Thu, 04/30/2009 - 1:01am

TRADE! Bruce and Dave are both old and crusty and have lost their mainstream appeal for the most part, but they are still alive. Pantara is a victim of the curse of 420, which has been thoroughly described on this very site. You probably would have gotten better value right after they were on Spongebob, but if they'll still go for it, you should [warning, insensitive pun ahead] pull the trigger.

69
by masoch (not verified) :: Fri, 05/01/2009 - 4:13am

No no, I'm the one shipping Iron Maiden off. I mean, I've GOT to! Dave Mustaine SAVES THE EARTH in the 24th and 1/2 century. Talk about future value!

(IF you have a short attention span, the true goodness starts at roughly 7:35)

26
by Jimmy :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:25pm

You don't seem to be very good at making fun of people.

What was the matter, did I offend you in intimating that all the outlandish micro brews the US seems to be permanently spawning might not actually be worth the point of brewing.

'Wow it has 800000 hops per glass I bet you have never tasted anything like this before!' - No I haven't and there is a very good reason.

There you go I've burnt a straw man too. Happy?

32
by drobviousso :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:15pm
68
by Mike B. In Va :: Thu, 04/30/2009 - 12:51pm

Exactly where I would have gone. Bravo!

33
by John Doe (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:25pm

Arrogant Bastard Ale and the infamous Double Bastard from Stone Brewery in CA makes U.S beer worth drinking.

44
by Jimmy :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 9:29pm

If that takes your fancy keep your eye out for Fat Bastard Chardonnay and Cat's Piss Sauvingnon Blanc from a vinyard in Southern France. I never tried the Cat's Piss but the Fat Bastard was certainly drinkable.

7
by Temo :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 2:30pm

Re: Quan Cosby

He's 26 years old (4 years in minor league baseball). He's not getting any better than what he already is. In fact, he's going to get worse from here on. Easy to see why he wasn't picked.

"Then again, I'm a Bobby Carpenter believer." -- Barnwell

9
by DoubleB (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 2:38pm

Quan Cosby is a poor man's Jarett Dillard. And that guy wasn't taken until the 5th round.

8
by underthebus :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 2:33pm

That 49er trade still bothers me. They needed Everette Brown. That was the perfect place to grab him. It makes no sense at all.

18
by panthersnbraves :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 4:00pm

So that would mean the Panthers taking him was a good thing?

31
by underthebus :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:13pm

I don't know, I mean does anyone know why Everette Brown dropped so far? The trade for the Niners is basically Everette Brown and a 4th rd pick for a playoff team's 1st rd 2010 pick. It just doesn't sit right with me.

Ninersnation thinks they'll trade up next year for a QB.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2009/4/28/856882/movin-on-up-in-the-2010-dra...

29
by Karl Cuba :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 6:39pm

I didn't like it at the time but I can see why the niners might have thought he's a bit too similar to Parys Haralson, as they're both about 6-1 with some rush ability.

10
by DoubleB (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 2:42pm

Re: Kmic

Kmic is a product of his line which is so far and away above his competitors (minus UW-Whitewater) that it's really tough to tell what he does well other than "runs really hard." I saw him against UW-Whitewater the last two years and came away very unimpressed.

11
by Chris (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:15pm

Instead of using a 1st and 3rd rounder for Quan or Braylan and paying them big bucks, the Giants draft Nix and Barden in the same rounds to try and more cheaply emulate that talent.

Barden should play in the red zone and absorb some coverage, while Hakeem should play inbetween the 20's and seems more NFL ready than others. These guys will also come more cheaply from a salary cap position and the Giants get 2 guys instead of 1 ( to diversify from injury risk)

I think Conner Barwin is an exciting draft pick but I must admit I never saw him in college. By the way, how many of you NFL nuts have seen a lot of these guys in college?

If I watch 12 hours of NFL on Sundays, and maybe watch some of the NFL replay/DVR'd games during the week, do you guys do that as well as watching college FB during the regular season? I mean yeah, I am going to watch your USC's, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, UF type teams, but do you guys watch Cincinatti, Utah, Uconn, and Western Michigan football games more than once or twice per year?

I know that everybody is an expert... but that's a lot of football.

Oh, and Tanier, do you have a man crush on William Beatty or something?

13
by masoch (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:21pm

When I saw this comment during the chat, I wanted to say it, but go busy, so I guess I'll say it now... not sure why I feel this is so important to say. Maybe it was the roughly 2 lbs of cooked just how I like it steak that I ate...

"MilkmanDanimal: "The Golden Corral Best Value Pick." You have got. To. Be. Kidding. Me.

Philly Homer: I'm so angry about Maclin I could go to a budget buffet restaurant."

I just want to say that, as far as buffets that aren't on a cruise or in Vegas go, Golden Corral is one of the best I've ever seen. Yeah, the price is low, but I have a very hard time calling it a "budget buffet". At least the one in Marysville, WA. Though, I don't advise saving room for dessert. Though my study suffers from small sample size, the 5 desserts (of about 30) I tried were all between utter crap (boston creme pie) and simply blah (lemon tart).

14
by Roy Hobbs (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:25pm

Gigantic pick by the Steelers in Round 5 - Frank the Tank Summers. If the reported forty times are correct, he's got a speed score of about 110 or so.

17
by masoch (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 3:58pm

I am *shocked* that FO editors listen to math rock. Shocked, I say! ;)

20
by superbears (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 4:25pm

I disagree with the negativity around the Broncos trading the pick. If you assume the pick will be in the low 20's next year, they moved down 15ish spots but got a player for a full year at a cheaper price.

23
by masoch (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:06pm

If you're assuming Josh McDaniels will get the Broncos into the low 20's next year, you need to lay off the Kool Aid.

24
by Chris (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:19pm

So will the 2nd to worst defense get a whole lot better, or will the #2 offense stay good with Kyle Orton/Chris Spleens/new coach, or will they get a gift call in the chargers game again from Ed Herchules?

You think Denver is going to be a border line playoff team and a little better than last year when they ditched their top 5 head coach, young gun qb? Really?

55
by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 10:46am

"when they ditched their top 5 head coach, "

Mike Shanahan hasn't been a top 5 coach for 10 years.

25
by Chris (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:22pm

If Denver went 8-8 next year, I'd say that is better than expecations. If they went 4-12 I'd say it was worse than people thought. I haven't looked at their schedule, but 6-10 seems like what most people or Vegas would peg them at. If they went 5-11 and picked around 5th to 7th in the draft, it wouldn't shock me at all.

Kyle Orton with the Bears defense is one thing, Kyle Orton with the Broncos defense is another hting.

56
by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 10:48am

"Kyle Orton with the Bears defense is one thing, Kyle Orton with the Broncos defense is another hting."

True. But, Kyle Orton with the Broncos line and Recievers and Kyle Orton with the Bears line and Receivers are also completely different things.

I don't think Orton is going to be a probowler, but I think hes drastically better in Denver than Chicago, and I think Cutler looks drastically worse. Chicago's offensive talent, besides Forte, is absolutely terrible.

62
by Jimmy :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 3:07pm

Chicago's offensive talent, besides Forte, is absolutely terrible.

I don't really agree with that. Olsen is a very good player and brings a lot of versatilty as they line him up all over the place. Clark is a good TE. Hester was a vastly improved player over the second half of the season - despite Orton's play falling off with a bum ankle - and still has masses of potential. The offensive line should be massively improved over last year (only two starters returning from last season and much better depth).

Yeah second receiver is a bit of a question mark but whoever is playing there should benefit from Cutler's arm and ability to keep plays alive.

It might not be the '89 Niners but it should be a long way removed from terrible.

27
by sam :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 5:28pm

Tra Thomas is not seen as the longterm solution at left tackle and I don't believe they're invested heavily in him much past this year. The other side is, you don't HAVE to play either Britton or Monroe to start on opening day. They have known commodities at every OL position before the draft - and now the best players will play. Not to mention the line is getting OLD, especially with the addition of Tra Thomas. If Eben Britton and Eugene Monroe were the top-rated players on their draft board at both picks, then good for the front office for picking them both...

Gene Smith wasn't looking for one or two guys to put this team in the Super Bowl, he's trying to build a perennial playoff team.

--
sam! or the original sam from the old FO

28
by terrapin (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 6:39pm

I am glad to see two of my quotes made it :)

best thing said in the chat was

Monkey Business: Donald Brown is a great one-cut, north/south runner, much like a Velociraptor.

I nearly died laughing. Pure greatness.

30
by Jon :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:12pm

The Seahawks showed a lot of interest in Teel prior to the draft, along with the Jets. I wanted to see more consistency out of Teel; he's either very good, or very bad. Worth a flier that late in the draft.

I think the Greene pick is going to be an absolute steal for Seattle though. That's the one to watch.

34
by MC2 :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:28pm

I was surprised no one took Ian Johnson. I know he had an up-and-down career in college, but he did really well at the combine (2nd fastest 40 time and most reps in the bench press, if memory serves). I figured he would go maybe as early as the 4th or 5th round.

35
by Rich Arpin (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:46pm

All hail the patriots coming to the draft,

It's like they forgot to show up to the first three hours. Wait, they didn't forget to show up, they arrived fashionably late. Yeah, that's how we'll spin it.

Honesty, as a Pats fan, I don't really know what to make of our draft. Getting a couple second rounders for next year is good, and shoring up some needs at S and CB and RT, but I was really expecting us to move up to grab Larry English, or all the way up to grab Curry (I can dream can't I?).

This brings up a couple questions:
1. Do people really see round two as the new round one in terms of value and still getting an impact player?
2. Why is it that when a team wins we say, "we won" but when the team loses we say, "they lost?"

41
by Eddo :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 9:14pm

Why is it that when a team wins we say, "we won" but when the team loses we say, "they lost?"

That gets me, too. I always try to say "they" when referring to the Bears. I hereby give everyone license to call me out if I refer to the Bears as "we".

43
by Jimmy :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 9:25pm

I really don't have a problem with people who have clearly identified themselves as as being fans of a specific team referring to their team as 'we'. It is quicker and easier than typing 'the XY or Z'.

I get more pissed off by blatant homerism speciously camoflaged as objective critiscism.

36
by Rich Arpin (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 7:48pm

3. Is it worth moving up to the top 5 to grab the sure thing, can't miss prospects, such as Aaron Curry?

37
by Chris (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 8:00pm

There is no such thing as a sure thing.

I think the thing with the Jags, is that Jack Del Rio probably really believes the O-Line is the heart beat of your football team. If he has the horses up front to dominate, he can run the ball, control the clock, attack his opponent and if you have a dominant line what is the opposition going to do???

Ball control keeps your defense rested ( and better). The Jags draft was to try and play Del Rio style football, to win like the Ravens won last year. Yeah, maybe they could have grabbed Crabtree or a WR, but then they'd have to call more pass plays, and allocate resources there, and maybe not be philosophically how the coach wants to be.

It sort of reminds me when Denny Greens Vikings teams would draft offensive players when they had strong offenses and poor defenses. He said that they wanted to keep their strength as a strength ( same philosophy) and that they saw value in the pick.

If Jack knew he could grab a solid dominant lineman for the next year 10 years, if they liked the kid, he wanted him.

The run blocking of the Jags last year was way way different than the run blocking of the Jags 2 years ago.

42
by Jimmy :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 9:18pm

The Jags season fell apart last year when their offensive line disintegrated. The running game that was supposed to be the staple of their offense was suddenly ruined and that placed greater pressure on Garrard and the passing game. The Jags struck (metaphorical) gold when Monroe slipped to them and adding Britton was the icing on the cake. They should now have quality and depth on the line which should help kick start the whole offense.

I also think the Jags got one of the steals of the whole draft with Jennings in the seventh round. A big, bruising back to help pick up short yardage at first and maybe develop later. After the way Forte carried the Bears offense last year I can't believe no one took a chance on him higher up.

39
by roguerouge :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 8:10pm

I thought the Pats had a solid draft, actually. They shored up some weaknesses on defense. They got some linemen to develop. They won't over-pay on rookie salaries. They made sure the pantry was stocked with draft picks for next year. Yes, the odds of an impact player are much better in the first round, but so's the possibility of a bust. The second round's not really the place for impact players, but solid starters? Yes.

40
by Rich Arpin (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 8:10pm

Have you verified that there is no such thing as a sure things? I think there are sure things, things in life such as taxes or death, or things in sports like MJ in the NBA finals or it always being Federer and Nadal in the finals of every major tennis open. Or even the curse of 370.

In regards to drafting for the O-line, is it better to go with someone who is more developed as a player with their technique or to go with someone like Sebastian Vollmer, who is a physical monster but isn't polished whatsoever?

I guess it comes down to a coach trusting his coaching staff, specifically his O-line coach. Dante S with the Pats turned "Logan who?" into the pro bowl guard we love, or hate, depending on your perspective

45
by c_f (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 10:06pm

Was Britton drafted to succeed Tony Pashos (is Pashos a liability over at RT?) or to become a guard? In any case, looks like the Jags don't want to repeat last season's OL debacle.

Re: UDFAs, why on earth was OT Gerald Cadogan of The Pennsylvania State University not drafted?

I'm surprised at the Curtis Painter pick. His college production sort of resembles Rex Grossman's 2006 season: lighting up bad teams, but doing poorly against good ones. Plus benefiting from Dorien Bryant and Dustin Keller until this year.

49
by sam :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 7:11am

Del Rio stated after the draft that the plan is for Monroe and Britton to be the bookend tackles of the future. I think they would be disappointed if he's not starting at RT by next season. Pashos could apparently slide inside to guard. Suddenly OL is a very strong, very deep area of the team with good veteran depth and a couple of young guys to develop (2nd year Drew Miller C/G, Uche Nwaneri G, plus the two new tackles) with Tra Thomas, Brad Meester, Tony Pashos , Vince Manuwai and Mo Williams.

--
sam! or the original sam from the old FO

46
by Monkey Business (not verified) :: Tue, 04/28/2009 - 10:15pm

It's good to know that my dinosaurs suggestion, and subsequent comparison of Donald Brown to a Velociraptor, was well received by the FO community.

I would encourage any other reviews of players from this point forward to be phrased in the form of a dinosaur comparison.

47
by Bobman :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 1:44am

Well, if nothing else, it's a chance for those of us with young boys at home to combine our family life and our FO life: I have about 20 assorted dinosaur books around the house (and with a few exceptions, none of the names are the same as when I was a kid. What, no more Brontosaurus? Damn shame, going extinct TWICE).

Closest I can come right now is very dated: Craig Ironhead Heywood and a pachycephalosaurus. And that is about as unfunny as can be. Maybe it's better to stick with just Velociraptor Brown until a savage LB named Rex comes along--then Chris Berman can get into the act and call him T-Rex.

48
by Jimmy :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 5:06am

For the T-Rex comparison you would be looking for a long striding linebacker with a big head and short arms. Can't think of any but will definitely keep an eye out for one.

61
by AlanSP :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 2:58pm

How about Mark Simoneau? Back when he was with the Eagles, my friends used to always make fun of how short his arms were.

63
by tuluse :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 5:38pm

I think T-Rex works pretty well for Rex Grossman. Really powerful, but with a brain the size of a walnut.

50
by AlanSP :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 7:33am

That velociraptor line made my day.

51
by AlanSP :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 7:40am

I'm kind of amazed that Phillip Hunt of Houston not only wasn't drafted but as far as I know, hasn't even been signed as a UDFA yet. He was extremely productive as a pass rusher in college, and he has impressive athletic ability as well. Even if he's undersized and needs to improve his technique, that seems like exactly the type of player that's worth taking a flyer on late in the draft or as a free agent, where there's essentially no downside for the team. Maybe there are other issues I'm not aware of.

52
by Chris (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 9:00am

Are you guys really talking about dinosaur books and football players? Did I miss the bit about pocket protecters too?

Tony Pashos is a big physical run blocker. The Jags hope to be playing Jags style football on offense for years. Having dominant run blcokers ( what they think they drafted) is much more valued to them than having a WR that can catch.

53
by DavidL :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 9:41am

This is a football site for nerds. You hadn't noticed?

54
by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 10:40am

RE Volmer

Bill:"He projects as a right tackle"

I think this is along the lines of Jake Long projecting as a right tackle: hes friggen huge, so he must not be a left tackle guy.

This kid moves really well. Surprisingly well. Looks like a LT to me.

57
by Chris (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 10:55am

Trust me, I noticed, but sometimes the nerds say smart things. I guess you just have to put up with the which NFL player is which species of dinosaur, and if the NFL players/coaches were scripted into a super hero movie, who would be who and what would they might say kind of stuff. Oh and then the over killed robo punter jokes that always seem to show up.

58
by Herm? (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 12:35pm

Quit being such a Hesperonychus

59
by Monkey Business (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 2:49pm

Man, what a Brachiosaurus.

60
by Jimmy :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 2:55pm

Maybe he's a jackofasaur?

64
by masoch (not verified) :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 8:30pm

Palowakskisaurus?

66
by zlionsfan :: Wed, 04/29/2009 - 9:01pm

As a Purdue grad, I was happy to see Curtis Painter get drafted. As a Purdue football fan, I was happy to see Painter get a chance at a job he can handle: Colts clipboard carrier.

It's hard to tell exactly who was to blame for what in Part 2 of Successful Purdue Coach: One Season Too Long, but from a purely subjective point of view, Painter's senior year was entirely forgettable. I mean, he ran up some great numbers against IU, which was fun, but 15 of 28 against Northern Colorado? In an offense that's designed to produce high completion percentages?

Then again, in Painter's defense, Purdue's version of the spread-n-shred, which normally resembles an Earl Weaver offense, was more like the Missouri offense at about half speed.

Actually, that's pretty much what it was. I mean, if you watched any part of the Lions Experience last year, you'd have sworn that John Standeford was taken straight out of Purdue's offense. (Yes, I know, and yes, I know.)

I mean, I'm sure he could become a decent NFL player, and of course he's got plenty of time to work on that even if he does make the roster, but it would surprise me.