Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Most Recent FO Features

BradyTom00-8.jpg

» Super Bowl XLVI Quick Reads

Eli Manning and Tom Brady were nearly equal in value in the Super Bowl. One of them had to lose. What effect will that have on their legacies? Plus, the best players of Super Bowl XLVI and the game's DVOA ratings.

04 Sep 2009

Black & Blue Report: September 4, 2009

by Will Carroll

Maurice Jones-Drew: Jones-Drew has what appears to be a deep bruise after Thursday night's game. They'll take a precautionary MRI, more because they got a group discount than any real need, but there are going to be questions about how quickly he can recover. Bruises hurt, simple as that. It's whether MJD can take the feature load and avoid these kinds of nicks and dings that will be the difference between us talking about him like an elite back or a guy that missed his shot to be one.

Tom Brady: There are moments when I wish Tom Brady would say "You know what? I'm married to a supermodel and I have enough money." It would make my life easier and we could all have a weepy Tedy Bruschi moment. Brady elicits more insanity than any other player right now, shy of maybe Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocinco, but for a far different reason. Brady had knee surgery. So have lots of quarterbacks. Brady's coming back from injury. So have lots of quarterbacks. So why is it that Pats fans and fantasy football addicts treat Brady differently? The big concern this week is that big Albert Haynesworth landed on him and he was a bit sore. The equation -- I know FO readers like equations -- is F=M x A. The mass is 300-plus pounds, but the key here was that Brady knows how to fall (watch the tape -- he "rag dolled" after being hit) and that he fell on soft summer grass. That same hit on a cold day in Foxboro or on hard turf? It could have been much worse. The Pats don't seem terribly concerned about Brady, but they do seem concerned about their offensive line play. Bill Belichick has time to re-focus them before the season starts.

Matt Cassel: The news isn't as good on the guy who replaced Brady last year. Matt Cassel has his own team now, assuming Todd Haley doesn't have a fit and assuming that his MCL sprain heals up. MCLs tend to heal on their own when not ruptured and have enough secondary stabilizers that most surgeons pass on fixing them. The downside is that it remains painful just after the injury and that it can severely impede lateral movement. For Cassel, this is especially problematic. Quarterbacks move laterally with their quick, precise dropbacks and then again if, as with the Chiefs, pass rushers make it necessary as a matter of personal safety to move aside. Cassel could likely play in Week 1, but he might not have enough quickness or confidence given that he's facing the Ravens' D. It's safer to assume that Haley will sacrifice ... err, give Brodie Croyle a chance to build off his camp and we'll see Cassel back in Week 2.

Matt Schaub: Matt Schaub has always had the skills to be a solid NFL quarterback and a fantasy asset. The problem is that he doesn't have that one skill -- health -- that I look at closely. Schaub has once again been slowed by an injury, this time a Grade II ankle sprain suffered in the last game. It was a hard eversion sprain that was painful, but while Schaub will be held out of the final preseason game (see the note below), he's expected to be at full strength or close enough to it when the season opens. Schaub has a tendency to be injured more on turf, which is interesting, if not meaningful. He does play his home games on turf and some portion of his road games, but it's worth noting.

Carson Palmer: Speaking of quarterbacks, healing, and ankle sprains, we've all gotten a good look via Hard Knocks at how Carson Palmer and the Bengals have been dealing with his Grade II sprain. The team has been very cautious with him (though he has not had the bucket hat that the Bengals force on injured players), not only because of the ankle but the questions that remain about his elbow. Palmer hasn't taken many hits and he's at a bit more risk if he falls on it that other quarterbacks. Things have looked good for the decision to avoid Tommy John surgery so far, but that could turn around in a hurry. Palmer's line is going to be a real key for him, so not having Andre Smith (who's broken foot suffered immediately upon practicing is a typical black mark on the Bengals) could end up an issue for everyone. If Palmer can be kept upright, he can be good. I'm watching to see the hurries and knockdown numbers in Week 1.

Knowshon Moreno: With the exit of Mike Shanahan and the drafting of Knowshon Moreno, it appeared that our long national fantasy nightmare might be over. Once again, we'd be able to look at the Denver backfield and say "that guy! He's going to get the start and the carries!" No, it's not that easy. The NFL has changed, going to running back tandems if not the Shanahanian boogaloo of rotating backs. Moreno for his part had an early MCL sprain that kept him from getting fully integrated. That left an opening for LaMont Jordan, who's already familiar with Josh McDaniel's offense and seems to have the coach's trust. Jordan will get early carries, perhaps playing the part of Dominic Rhodes 2006, with Moreno taking on the Joseph Addai role. If so, it's a smart play, especially given the knee injury. Temper your expectations for the explosive rookie early, but maybe next year, Denver will really have a feature back.

Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas: The Saints are a lot of people's pick for a playoff run, but the more I look at this team's offense, I wonder why. Sure, Drew Brees is a solid quarterback who deserves to be in discussions with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, but who's he going to throw it to? Marques Colston and Lance Moore are both coming off serious injuries and haven't proven durability. Moreover, the threat of the running game has to be there and both Reggie Bush and Pierre Thomas have questions. Bush is coming off microfracture surgery and observers say he's lacking confidence in the knee. Worse, the changed mechanics in his gait are thought to be the big reason behind his calf strain. Bush did not play in Thursday's final preseason game. Sean Payton is going to have some tough decisions about game-planning for a guy he hasn't seen play outside of practice. Thomas is the bigger issue for the Saints, having sprained his MCL. He didn't play Thursday and his availability for Week 1 is in serious question. Even if he does play, his effectiveness will be an issue. If a team can be a playoff contender with Mike Bell as their top running back, maybe there's hope in New Orleans.

Jonathan Stewart: The problem with a running back tandem in the modern NFL is that you need a backup who can mesh in case either one of the backs -- the "thunder" or the "lightning" half of the most common setup -- goes down with an injury. With Jonathan Stewart continuing to miss time with an Achilles strain, the Panthers have been pretty happy with the play of Mike Goodson. Yes, the bulk of the carries will go to DeAngelo Williams but instead of a two-thirds role, Williams is likely to be closer to three-quarters of the carries. The issue of value will come down to whether Goodson takes the goal-line carries and touchdowns. Problem is that Goodson isn't that type of back with the kind of size and power that Stewart has. Instead, it looks like Goodson will slot into a third-down back role. It's good for Williams but not so good for the Panthers. Worse, there's no real timeline for Stewart to come back. If he's rushed, the Achilles could pop and he'd be done for the year. There's a chance that Stewart is PUP'ed to help with roster crunch. Don't be fooled by some who say Brad Hoover will get the goal-line carries or that Stewart's value is harmed significantly by the missed time. Once he's healthy, he'll be right back into his normal role, according to team sources.

Eagles O-Line: While the focus has been on Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb, the real issue for the Eagles is the guys keeping them upright back there. The offensive line was supposed to be a strength after the trade for Jason Peters, but instead, they've barely had the line together enough to even get them addressing each other on a first-name basis. Research from here at FO and other places has shown that unit cohesion and time together is one of the key factors for effectiveness. Stacy Andrews is coming off ACL surgery and hasn't been at full-go, while injuries to both guards have kept the line from developing any of that cohesion. With two mobile quarterbacks, this shouldn't be as significant an issue as it would be for a team with a strict pocket guy, but there's also an effect on Brian Westbrook and perhaps LeSean McCoy. Expectations for big wins and big numbers should be tempered a bit until this line proves strong and reasonably durable.

A Note on the Final Preseason Games

There's a long list of players that will sit out their final preseason games. For the most part, you don't have to worry about these. While the NFL is talking about an 18-game season, teams now understand that being healthy coming out of the four preseason games is much more important. Some players will just be resting up, some will be healing up, but there's really no new information to be gained if they don't play. Think of not playing (or very light playing time) as being the default state.

Bumps and Bruises

"Open dislocation" sounds like something pretty simple. It is, if you consider the bone popping through the skin to be simple. That's what Kyle Orton had happen in his last game. Amazingly, he's not expected to miss any time ... Marc Bulger will still have a broken pinky in Week 1, but he intends to play. I'm a bit curious whether he'll be able to handle the pain and pressure, so I'd make sure I had a good backup if he was my fantasy quarterback ... Anquan Boldin will be ready for Week 1, if not happy ... James Hardy looks to be starting the season on the PUP while he continues to recover from his ACL. It's as much about the roster as his rehab ... If there's good news anywhere in the NFL, it's that Cadillac Williams has looked very solid in his comeback from a devastating knee injury. There's lots of running back depth in the Bucs camp and a confused offense right now, but he's healthy enough to get some carries or to take on more if the need arises ... Sammy Morris is back at practice with the Pats. Still no word on what the injury that kept him out was, though speculation centers on his back. Morris is in danger of being cut, though he's likely to make it as the fifth running back ... Adam Vinatieri is just a kicker, but the Colts are taking a risk if they go into Week 1 without having him 100 percent. The team may carry two kickers or trade for Chad Ochocinco ... Black & Blue will stay on its normal weekly schedule for the season, normally running on Wednesdays, but with some occasional flexibility.

Posted by: Will Carroll on 04 Sep 2009

26 comments, Last at 05 Sep 2009, 4:07pm by Mick Fee

Comments

1
by Joseph :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:04am

I'll tell you why the Saints aren't worried about PT & Bush--it's because Bell, Lynell Hamilton (4th stringer), and PJ Hill (5th) have run hard and decisively this preseason. Also, opening at home against the Lions is somewhat like a 5th preseason game. I agree with Lions' fans--they WILL be better this year. (Of course, 1-15 would be an improvement. :) ) Just don't see them beating the Saints at home, or even keeping it close.
Regarding Brees and the WR's, since when has Brees (in NO) EVER focused on one WR? Both Colston and Moore are healthy--they both played against the Raiders in week 3, although like most of the Saints' starters, they didn't play last night. Checking FOA, only Moore had over 100 targets, although 6 guys had over 50. In other words, Brees will find whoever is open, without worrying about the name on the back of his jersey.

22
by The Diesel (not verified) :: Sat, 09/05/2009 - 2:09am

I read that too and was confused by his analysis. Maybe he didn't see Bell tear it up against Huston against their first stringers.

2
by White Rose Duelist :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:07am

Wouldn't the mass that fell on brady be 136-plus kilograms?

/first and 9.144

6
by MJK :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:57am

Yes, 300 lbm ~= 136 kg. But pounds are also perfectly acceptable as a measure of mass. It's true that "lb" is commonly used to measure weight, which is force, not mass, but because the English unit system dates back to a time before the distinction between weight and mass was as well understood as it is today, the two were often used interchangeably. As a result, the convention has arisen that, in English units, weight is measured in "pound-force", or lbf, and mass can be measured in "pound-mass", or lbm. One lbm weighs one lbf at sea level on Earth, just as one kg weighs 9.8 Newtons at sea level on Earth.

12
by billsfan :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 3:52pm

So how many slugs would that be?

(I also like the Eagles)

13
by MJK :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 4:03pm

1 slug = 32.174 lbm, give or take. So Haynesworth would mass about 9.32 slugs. Just because you asked. However, in practice, even though slug may be the "official" unit of mass in the English unit system, in engineering practice, lbm is far more common.

3
by jody (not verified) :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:23am

the Texans play on grass, not (artificial) turf. "The field at Reliant Stadium is made up of 8’X8’ pallets of grass and there are a total of 1,104 pallets." see here

7
by Will Carroll :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 12:37pm

You're right. There's some question about how that grass acts - it's obviously not deep or that thick. Perfectly fine for football, but it's not "natural" grass. I spoke with some players last season about it and while they said it's better than turf, it's much closer to that than outdoor. Same thing with Arizona.

4
by starzero :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:48am

thanks for adding "Shanahanian" to the lexicon. now i just have to figure out how to use that outside of a football context.

8
by Will Carroll :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 12:39pm

It's kind of like Favrian (someone who publicly agonizes over a decision, going back and forth and telling everyone each time.) Shanahanian is changing your mind at the last minute with no explanation, as in "My buddies and I got to Vegas, only to find out Joe had made a Shanahanian move to book us at the Flamingo."

21
by justanothersteve :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 9:27pm

And here I thought Favrian was to do something brilliantly for a while, only to undo it all with one or a series of Jethro-like moments.

5
by turbohappy (not verified) :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:57am

The Colts tested out McAfee (their rookie punter) kicking off during the last preseason game. I bet they will just carry him and Vinatieri with McAffe kicking off for the first game or 2 and Vinatieri only handling FG/XPs.

9
by Will Carroll :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 12:40pm

Possible.

I wondered about dropping the punter and going with the Madden strategy, but no way the Colts try that.

10
by The Anti-Dave (not verified) :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 3:19pm

This bias against Jones-Drew as unable to withstand a feature back's load because he's "small" is absurd (not that it's stated above, but it's implied, and many others within and without this site have commented on it). Jones-Drew is short, not small. If he can't be a feature back, neither could Barry Sanders, Joe Morris, or Emmitt Smith because their proportions are roughly the same as Jones-Drew's.

14
by tally :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 4:14pm

I think MJD is actually built a bit thicker than those you listed.

But your point is well taken. Overall weight I think has an impact, simply because the smaller body is going to receive more of the momentum during an impact, but the build of the athlete is important as well, and because MJD is shorter, I think he's possibly more durable than taller 207 lb. backs. His lack of height is an advantage, IMO. I'd be more confident in his durability at 5'7", 207 lbs. than a 6'1", 207 lb. back.

24
by rotomusing :: Sat, 09/05/2009 - 8:07am

The argument against MJD is rooted in his past three season's rushing attempts. Entering his 4th year as an NFL RB makes one question whether a back who hasn't carried the ball more than 197 times in a season will be able to fulfill all the fantasy football pre-season ranks.

Do not underestimate that fantasy football factor either. If the game didn't exist, there wouldn't be nearly the negativity about a possiblely disappointing season.

11
by mental :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 3:30pm

Most CW I have seen has Buckhalter as the prime beneficiary of Moreno's injury, and he was DEN's bigger FA pickup... Is this no longer the case?

15
by Nathan :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 5:31pm

You know, as a Pats fan, I'm confused by all this "sky is falling" stuff about the offensive line I hear over and over. In 2007 Brady had RIDICULOUS amounts of time in the pocket for game after game, allowing him to throw bomb after bomb to Moss or sit back and wait for Gaffney to beat the Ravens zone, etc. Then he gets pressure in 1 game (the Super Bowl unfortunately) and suddenly the Offensive Line is this massive question mark when they were literally magnificent the entire rest of the year in pass protection.

In 2008 anyone who watched the Patriots will tell you Cassel was holding onto the ball WAY too long in the beginning of the season, hence all the sacks.

Then we roll around to this preseason. He goes untouched against Philly to the point where he complains about not hit. Then the O line gives up a blindside sack on a play that is Brady's fault (he told the press after the game that it was on him, not on Kaczur) and a game later allows the most dominant defensive tackle in the league to "hit" (fall on after the pass was delivered) Brady and once again the Offensive Line is this huge question mark.

I don't get it. It's football. The quarterback is going to get hit occasionally. Have you seen the Steelers line? That's what a question mark looks like. The fact that it's Brady getting hit out there doesn't change the fact that 90% of the time he drops back he gets stellar protection.

If you want a real Pats concern, where the hell has Welker been all preseason? That frightens me way more than the O line. Am I just a fanboy? Am I making this up? Is our line actually busted and I just don't see it? Help me FO, you're my only hope.

17
by Brendan Scolari :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 6:33pm

Nope, your not alone. It seems that every time Brady is hit we get an injury update, as though that's not a normal part of playing quarterback in the NFL. The Pats line is really good, I don't see why there's any concern over them.

18
by Sifter :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 6:58pm

I agree with most of that. I was always annoyed that the O-line didn't get nearly enough props for 2007. Brady had a MILE of time that year.

19
by MJK :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 7:52pm

I think a little of it is because the Pats O-line was a bit overrated prior to the Superbowl in 2007. I'm as big a Pats fan as anyone, and even I doubt that all three of Koppen, Light, and Mankins deserved Pro-Bowl births that year. I think the line performed well in 2007 partly because of they are, in my opinion, an average to slightly above average line, but partly because of unprecedented good health luck (as I recall, that was one rare year where Stephen Neal played pretty much the whole season, and where neither OT got hurt), and partly because teams were so scared of the passing attack that they were keeping so many guys back (to double cover Moss, to double cover Moss AND Welker, to keep a free LB in the short zones to stop the Welker/Stallworth/Faulk screens, etc.) that no one could bring much pressure. The Pats line is perfectly good enough to stand up to a four man rush against most four man fronts. It is not so good at standing up to four elite rushers like the Giants had, or heavy blitzes. When Brady and Moss and Welker are all healthy, blitzing is suicide, but when Cassel was in there, or the recievers weren't 100%, teams could blitz more safely, and the Pats line breaks down.

Across the front: I think Light is average at pass protection, above average at blocking in space (screens, tosses, sweeps, reverses, etc.), and below average at run blocking on the line. Mankins is very good and was probably the only truly deserved 2007 Probowler on the Pats line. Koppen is smart and adequate at C, but can be beat by athletic rushers (like Tuck, or Haynesworth). And is a lousy run blocker. Neal is very good at both pass protection and run blocking, but is often injured, and his backups are only average. At RT, Kaczur is decent but not great at pass protection, but a liability in run blocking. O'Callaghan is better at run blocking, but probably a little below average at pass protection. So overall I would give the line a B- ... and Brady makes them a B+ (or an A when Moss and Welker are in the game).

I do think a lot of the sky is falling on the part of Pats fans is a little over the top, but then again, we Bostonians are not exactly known for being level-headed sports fans.

I do worry about Welker, but I think if it was anything majorly serious, something would have leaked, despite all the Foxboro secrecy.

16
by Eddo :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 5:53pm

Kevin Jones is out for the year with a torn ankle ligament.

20
by BroncosGuy (not verified) :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 8:18pm

Thanks, Will, for the medical information.

I will argue a bit about your take on the Denver running back situation.

First, a healthy Moreno still would not be a featured back. McDaniels is no more of a featured-back guy than Shanahan was. I looked at 2007 season and measured what percentage of the total RB touches went to the most-frequently-touching back (sorry for the dreadful English). Which teams "featured back" had the lowest percentage of touches? Denver. Which was next lowest? The McDaniels-coordinated Patriots. Granted, the numbers are bit distorted by injuries (which is why I didn't use 2008, a season in which the Broncos started 43 different running backs in 16 games). But you get the idea. McDaniels isn't merely platoon happy, he's down-and-distance situational happy.

Also, I wouldn't make a big bet on LaMont Jordan. I'm not sure if he'll even make the team.

23
by Brendan Scolari :: Sat, 09/05/2009 - 5:14am

But McDaniels never had a back to feauture, he had good situational guys like Faulk and Morris. He also had Maroney, but he was never very good .You can bet that if McDaniels had a Clinton Portis type guy in NE, he would have been playing the great majority of downs. Furthermore, I don't think the Broncos used the #12 pick on a RB with the intent of only playing him 1/3 of the offensive snaps. At least i hope not, because I own Moreno in a keeper league. ;-)

25
by BroncosGuy (not verified) :: Sat, 09/05/2009 - 11:20am

I understand your point, but you can't really know what McDaniels would have done with a Portis (or if Maroney had been more healthy/effective). What we do know is that when McDaniels got to Denver, he stated he believed in using several backs situationally. (Of course, several of his players don't believe anything he says, so maybe this should be taken with a grain of salt, as well.) He then signed three FA running backs (Jordan, Buckhalter, and JJ Arrington who eventually failed his physical) and heavily pursued a fourth (Derrick Ward), none of whom are carry-the-load guys. Then he drafted Moreno.

I'm not saying Moreno will only see 1/3 of the snaps, but he won't be an Edgerrin James type workhorse either. If his health and pass-blocking prowess allow, I'd guess 50% to 60% of the touches go to Moreno, which isn't that bad. Both of us are guessing, of course.

Your point about the quality of the backs influencing platooning is valid and applies, I think, more demonstrably to Shanahan. Its not like Shanny was limiting Terrell Davis to half of the touches. While there was value to spelling TD to limit fatigue, etc., the opportunity cost of taking him off the field was significant. But if your roster consists of 4 mediocrities, that opportunity cost approaches zero.

26
by Mick Fee (not verified) :: Sat, 09/05/2009 - 4:07pm

It's "whose broken foot," Will Carroll, not "who's."

Good information on MCLs though. :-)

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

CAPTCHA
To skip this, please log in.