Talk amongst yourselves
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You would think, but I believe the rule is that it's incomplete no matter where the ball ends up in that situation.
Good point. And either way I think the official ruling is "fumble". The referees don't have to specify since they're equivalent. Either way, throwing an empty hand like that can really hurt your elbow. I hope Sanchez isn't hurt.
I would say in super slow motion that his hand almost certainly started moving forward.
I do not look forward to hearing about the Steelers and the refs from my conspiracy-minded friends.
Well, Pittsburgh is managing to do what GB couldn't and put the game away. And before halftime! Should be a fun SB.
Jets are going to come out in the second half ready to fight. You think they would have been ready to fight in the first half, too.
I do not claim that this is definitive, but...
Mark Sanchez, career regular season:
Completion Percentage: 54.4
Yards per Attempt: 6.6
Adjusted Yards per Attempt: 5.5
TD Percentage: 3.3
INT Percentage: 3.8
Passer Rating: 70.2
Mystery QB, career regular season:
Completion Percentage: 55.5
Yards per Attempt: 6.5
Adjusted Yards per Attempt: 5.4
TD Percentage: 3.6
INT Percentage: 4.1
Passer Rating: 70.2
No, but just for fun, Sanchez/Testaverde:
Completion Percentage: 54.4/56.5
Yards per Attempt: 6.6/6.9
Adjusted Yards per Attempt: 5.5/5.9
TD Percentage: 3.3/4.1
INT Percentage: 3.8/4.0
Passer Rating: 70.2/75.0
Not too far off.
Frank Reich. That's the only funny answer I can think of.
Hmmm, spitballing here, but sounds like Trent Dilfer.
Winner winner, chicken dinner.
Granted, Sanchez still has time to improve, and just those stats are anything but definitive. Just thought it was interesting.
Looks like Big Ben numbers to me.
Not even close. Sanchez/Roethlisberger
Completion Percentage: 54.4/63.1
Yards per Attempt: 6.6/8.0
Adjusted Yards per Attempt: 5.5/7.7
TD Percentage: 3.3/5.1
INT Percentage: 3.8/3.1
Passer Rating: 70.2/92.5
I really want to say "Favre" but that may just be me being mean.
"deepest penetration of the game"
Truly a Jim Nantz classic. He says it almost every game.
That deepest penetration happened this morning already.
oi vey. Nice way to set the tone for the 2nd half.
The muffed kick, the nice run, or the bad tackling?
Technically, the KO return, but the nice run followed by an injury was a mixed message :)
I'm pulling for the Steelers, but I'd like the Jets to make the 2nd half fun to watch, rather than continue getting slaughtered.
I'd prefer a slaughter. I'm starting to get nervous now.
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For the second week in a row, playing "C'mon C'mon" in the stadium in Pittsburgh. Weird.
Many years in a row, although I couldn't have identified it as Def Leppard until I saw your post last week. (You don't go to Heinz Field for the music.)
Many years? The song came out in the spring of 2008.
And I'm not complaining, because I actually think it's an excellent song. It's just weird. It wasn't a hit. I don't think it even got released as a single in the US. Def Leppard hasn't had a hit song in the US since 1993. Songs from the Sparkle Lounge, while it did make it to number five on the Billboard chart, still doesn't even have a gold certification two years later. Def Leppard obviously has no local connection to Pittsburgh. And yet this song is being played regularly at major football games. Just strange.
Sorry. I'm sure you're right. They've certainly played it for a while, but most of what's played at games tends to run together.
Being "new" Leppard makes some sense, since the station that plays old Def Leppard (and is now the Steeler flagship) doesn't play it. All that's required for a song to be played is for one of the Gameday Entertainment people to like it.
Nice play by Holmes.
Good lord, that looked like the highest pass I've ever seen that wasn't a hail mary.
Still, nice TD hurl Sanchez. Double digits!
We're all thinking it, I'm just saying it: where was this offense for the first two quarters?
Horribly broken coverage. I couldn't even tell who was on Holmes there.
I can't believe that wasn't blocked, he was right there.
That was harsh. I feel for the guy. He was so close and to give up the roughing... man, what else could he do (except get the block)?
Huge sequence there- Jets DB has a pick hit him in the head, then a roughing the punter.
Not that it matters, but shouldn't that have been a 5 yard running into the kicker penalty, not the 15 yard roughing?
The distinction between the two is a matter of severity not intent, and that was a pretty "rough" hit.
Again, Kemoeatu completely held the defender on that play. Twice. In the middle of the field, with no one else around them.
I don't think the refs have called a single offensive hold all day. They're letting it go for both teams.
Which is completely irrelevant to my post.
He's holding, blatantly, all game and it should be called.
The frequency of a penalty being called or not called prior to the play has nothing to do with the illegal act that is being committed 10 yards in front of the official that isn't being called.
You contend that the severity bar the referees have set this game to call holding is irrelevant to whether a given play should have resulted in a holding call?
I think we should get the nfl/announcers to consider that 'colliding'. Moore wasn't really 'tackled'.
... Oh, Ben.
Gregg Easterbrook just crossed out "game over" in his notebook.
Roman Harper was just named to the Pro Bowl. I'm not kidding.
Who's the NFC coach for the Pro-Bowl?
Highest eliminated seed would be ATL/Mike Smith. Haven't read whether he's accepted, tthough honestly I have no idea if declining is even an option.
It's part of the campaign to erase all references to the Seahawks in the 2010 season.
Just a random thought - since 2004, what is the record of the Pittsburgh Steelers in games where both Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Polamalu have started and finished the game? While I believe it might take a while to parse the data, I've got a hunch that the winning percentage is comfortably above .700 and possibly even approaching .800. If so...wow.
But if you try to start a Roethlisberger/Polamolu dialogue won't that undermine the Brady/Bellichek and "this is a coaching/quarterback" league dialogues at once!
Love the shot of Big Ben losing his name.
Put the Lipitor commercial on your candidate list for scramble. It's sooooo formulaic. I felt like I was writing the commercial as it was playing.
On some of these throws, Sanchez looks like he's trying to hit the blimp overhead.
Maybe he's trying to win a bet.
If he's practicing for the Cowboys Stadium jumbotron you'd think he would've at least tried to get a lead first.
I like how on the Farrior tackle you can hear the helmets hit and not only to the refs amazingly not throw a flag but it goes completely unnoticed by the announcers.
I, for one, have no idea what's legal anymore - the Danish announcers claimed it was legal (runningbacks are fair game).
Holy shit, they need to learn how to snap the ball.
H2H to QBs and receivers in the act of catching are illegal.
So yeah, running backs (as in... they are running) are fair game.
Call the penalty on whom? The running back was clearly running forwards and went low, straight into Farrior, who was just doing his job...
There is not the same rule in running situations; they call unnecessary roughness most often for "defenseless players," such as receivers trying to make a catch or QB's in the act of throwing.
I never said there should be a penalty. I was however a little surprised the refs didn't throw a flag because all season they've been prone to do so regardless of if the hit was legal. They've been all over the place this year.
Two yards to goal:
Why those two passes?
WHY THOSE TWO PASSES?!
WHY THOSE TWO PASSES?!?!
Oh come on, the whole world knew the safety was coming. Schottenheimer was just trying to make sure it happened. Now he'll have great field position after the free kick. It's quite smart, really.
Why can't anyone put a game away today? Ye gods.
Oh, that's not a catch. His hand hit out of bounds.
Looked like his knee hit in bounds first. I would have challenged just to buy some time for the defense but I don't think it would be reversed.
Remember your John Madden math: one knee = two feet.
Jets are amazing on 4th down.
The Jets now have more yards than the Steelers.
more yards = loss in this series.
The words "epic collapse" come to mind.
I will cry myself to sleep if the Jets end up winning this. Jesus. Ultimate choke brewing.
or, you can give some credit to the opponent.
I mean it's nowhere near as big a choke as the Ravens gave the Steelers last week.
You are up 24 to nothing at the half, and Mark Sanchez is the QB of your opponent. You in turn have the best defense in the league. If you don't win, you choked. No way around that.
Moot now, of course.
His point has a lot less to do with reasoning than "you guys are haters who keep disrespecting the Jets." It's the 2nd or 3rd post on the subject.
The Jets are an excellent team, but so are the Steelers. To allow such a drastic comeback is a choke given the relative capabilities of the teams.
If the Carolina Panthers allow a similar comeback, then that's not a choke.
I'm betting if you were to look at single half DVOA, the Steelers' second half this game was further below their average than the Ravens' second half last week was below their average.
You are kidding me when Holmes makes one of his trademark catches to win the game.
Have we seen Wallace yet?
Wow, Ben's passer rating sits at a cozy 27.6 right now. And that doesn't account for his two fumbles.
Of course, you could easily argue that his runs cancel out the fumbles. Still, wow. Figures that the worst performance by a QB against the Jets would be the one that beats them.
Two interesting Rex Ryan calls there: no 2-point try, and no onside kick. I think I probably would have gone for two, and only would have kicked deep if I had converted the 2.
Trying for 2 is absolutely the wrong call. You need a TD whether you are down by 4 or 5, and if you miss the 2, and are down by 6, you raise the specter of blowing the XP on what should be the winning TD!
Right. But, if you're going to kick off, if they kick a FG then you're down by 7 instead of 8.
If they kick a FG, they've taken enough time off the clock that that hardly matters.
Probably, but not necessarily. I agree that the PAT was the right choice.
Right, so you try for 2 then, not now.
I agree that that is the best time to go for 2. Just saying that it's not completely indefensible.
Sure, but that just means that if they score a FG, you have to make a two-pointer either way -- either you had to make one after the first TD, or you have to make one after the second. Kicking the XP and then getting a two-pointer shouldn't be any harder than getting a two-pointer and then kicking the XP.
Down 5, you are only down 8 if Pit hits a fg
On reflection, the way the Steelers play the Jets the right calculation is probably that if you kick the extra point then you can tie it up with a safety and a field goal.
Their best bet for the play after the 2:00 warning might just be to have everyone go run pass routes lazily and let Ben take off running once the receivers clear out a bit.
Antonio Brown, why do you run out of bounds?
This team is terrible! I demand the Steelers FireOmarTomlin!
So, Steelers-Packers in the Super Bowl. Feels nice and old school. For the Packers, I recommend using the Patriots strategy, and give up on the running game.
Didn't the Pats rack up more yards on the ground than any other team vs Pit this year?
Yeah but they spent the entire game riding an early lead. IIRC a good amount of the running was done from spread sets as well.
And on the deciding play of the game, Kemoeatu gets beat on an outside move...and not only does he hold the rusher, but he does so by grabbing his helmet and nearly dragging him to the ground.
F- me. It doesn't get any more obvious than that call. Seriously...and the league, the media and the fans wonders why people thing the Steelers get all the calls. Uh, well, cause they do.
Sorry, but that wasn't holding... The Steelers do have problems with their O-line this year, and they do get called for holding. Not enough, perhaps; just as everyone blocking Harrison holds without getting called enough. (Just ask him!)
But if you're in front of your man, get your hands inside his pads, you can hold on and stay in front of him. He tried to get away, and Kemoeatu's hands went up around the helmet; but he stayed in front of him and blocked successfully, if not gracefully. Only wishful thinking throws a flag there. It gets a lot more obvious than that.
Congratulations, Steelers! Going to the Super Bowl!
"if you're in front of your man, get your hands inside his pads, you can hold on and stay in front of him"
In a word. Bullshit.
He overleveraged him to the ground by his pads/helmet. That is textbook holding. Learn the rules next time.
They showed a replay in the Packers-Bears game where one of the lineman was blocking almost entirely on the rusher's facemask, for several seconds of screen time. Now in real time it might be hard to see, but I couldn't believe the announcers didn't mention it in a "Oh he got away with one there" way.
Prediction for Super Bowl: Roethlisberger goes 5/37 for 57 yards and 6 INTs, but directs a 4th quarter drive in which he escapes 15 separate tackles by the Packer D-line on one play before throwing a TD pass to Wallace right through Charles Woodson's body, killing him instantly and winning the game, 24-21.
Prediction for Super Bowl: Roethlisberger goes 5/37 for 57 yards and 6 INTs,
and Jason Whitlock pens an article declaring him the best clutch QB of our generation, and certainly better overall than Peyton Manning.
Jason Whitlock, really? Doesn't Roethlisberger seem a little too, umm, let's say "pale" to be getting praise from Whitlock?
What, compared to Jeff George?
Whitlock never misses a chance to bash Manning.
Congrats to the Steelers. See you next year at our house.
Dear Jets- Thank you for the best season of Jets football in my lifetime. You played great, never quit, and always kept it entertaining. Thank you.
Couldn't agree more. What a terrific season -- tough that it's over. Steelers obviously deserved to win, and congrats to their fans; great D, of course, and no matter how low his rating will look, Ben just killed them in so many ways.
While the result would probably not have been pretty, really bummed that the Jets didn't get a chance to try one more 2-minute drill at the end...
See? Jets fans are just so classless(!)
Did anyone else think the Packers were running some strange defenses in the second half? I guess it is reasonable to let the other team burn time if you are sure your two score lead will hold up. Matt Forte had a heck of a game, and Urlacher too. What the heck happened to Nick Collins on the Earl Bennet TD? Also, nice job intercepting the ball but 1) quit the darn showboating, and 2) GET DOWN!
As a Packer fan, the Steelers scare me more than the Jets. Still, we're solidly in gravy territory here, for me anyway.
You know it's odd, Roethlisberger seemed to be having some issues with the exchange from under center but he doesn't really strike me as the type of guy who would pull out early....
Five years ago the Steelers set an unbreakable record for highest seeds faced -- the 1, 2, 3 seeds in their conference and the 1 seed from the other one.
This year they'll set an unbreakable record for lowest seeds faced -- the 5, 6 seeds in their conference and the 6 seed from the other one.
(Records unbreakable as long as there are six teams per conference. Also, this year the 5 and 6 seeds happen to be really good.)
Packers just missing that Steelers feat this post-season: beating 3, 1, 2 in the NFC and facing the 2 from the AFC.
...and to think, they were the Polamalu strip-sack of Flacco away from being the 6 seed themselves
Any given Sunday.
Any given Season.
Or a Ravens victory over the Bengals in their first game.
...for agreeing to pretend that I said six playoff teams per conference.
So we get the frontrunners' dream Super Bowl
I thought the Cowboys were the frontrunner's team of choice.
the worst part of today that will have lasting effects is that next Fall all idiot prognosticators will go back to saying how much sanchez sucks, and how great ryan and flacco are, and not remember the 2010 playoffs.
also, glad to see the season couldnt end without another ultimate brainfart from schottenheimer. awful
Sanchez shook off a pretty horrendous first half to put up decent numbers. I was impressed- I thought he'd fold in the cold weather down 24 on the road, but he kept making plays.
I want to know whether FireOmarTomlin's beliefs are shaken.
Somehow, I suspect they aren't. I suspect he's actually upset that his team is winning, because now people won't know that Tomlin actually sucks. (He might become the youngest coach ever to win his second Superbowl, but he still sucks.)
FireOmarTomlin was like an anti-raiderjoe. Nothing can shake his belief that an obviously-competent guy is actually terrible.
As a Vikings fan who has had to suffer through the Brad Childress experience (incompetent coach of a pretty talented team) knowing full well that Mike Tomlin was the defensive coordinator for the 2006 team, I think FireOmarTomlin needs to realize how lucky he is. Yes, Tomlin isn't perfect in his game management, but his team comes to play every week, and it is consistently the most physically imposing team year-in and year-out. As I said in an earlier post - let's assume that the two best Steelers are Roethlisberger and Polamalu. What is the Steelers record when those two are both playing. It's pretty incredible; granted, they were successful with Cowher (except 2006), but I think since 2004 when those two play their record is commensurate with any team in the NFL - especially in the playoffs. It would have been really easy for Tomlin to come in and undo everything Cowher built - including firing Dick LeBeau since he ran a 3-4 defense; but he continued what worked, and is arguably even better than his predecessor. In other words, stop whining and enjoy it.
(Now if you want to bitch about the fact that your QB quite likely has committed a heinous crime on possibly more than one occasion, be my guest. As Ben Muth said - he IS a creep!)
"It would have been really easy for Tomlin to come in and undo everything Cowher built - including firing Dick LeBeau since he ran a 3-4 defense; but he continued what worked..."
That's such a simple, obvious thing to do -- stick with what's worked -- but I actually think that Tomlin doesn't get as much credit as he deserves for taking that approach. How many times have we seen coaches and personnel executives screw things up because they needed to satisfy their egos by winning "their" way? I was rooting for him almost as soon as he took over because of his ability to recognize that (sometimes) deferring to others can be a strength. Now, since he's experienced some success, we'll have to see if he sticks with the philosophy ... but I am really, really happy that his approach has brought good results.
It's also possible that management insisted that Tomlin stick with the defensive staff (and philosophy) as a condition of taking the job, but he was willing to, and he's certainly embraced it.
I'm not sure what drives me crazier- the idea that Tomlin sucks as a coach, or the idea (that some still believe is true) that he was only hired because he was a minority and the Steelers wanted to prop up the Rooney Rule. Tomlin certainly has his faults (bad challenges and the presence of Bruce Arians come to mind), but the guy wins games and took over from an incredibly successful coach. Cowher's shoes are not easy to fill, even if you believe (and I lean that way) that Cowher checked out after the Super Bowl. In some ways Tomlin is the NFL's version of Tubby Smith at Kentucky, though I think the majority of Steelers fans have taken to Tomlin in a way UK fans never felt about Smith.
I know this post was generally supportive of Tomlin, but I wanted to jump in about a couple points:
(1) IIRC, Tomlin is actually significantly above-average with his challenge success rates; if anything, that may mean he challenges too infrequently. This year, I can think of two widely-criticized challenge decisions: the opening kickoff of the Divisional game against the Ravens, and a failure to challenge a play that would've given the Steelers a TD against the Saints. For the latter play, apparently his people in the booth didn't get access to all of the TV replays, so he wasn't working with the same info as everyone else. I don't think there's really much evidence that he's particularly bad with challenges, and I suspect almost every fan believes his coach is bad with challenges, since the egregiously bad decisions are easier to remember than the clearly correct ones.
(2) I know most Steelers fans hate Arians, and I've heard some very valid criticism of some of his specific tendencies. But the guy has also produced a top-10 offense (by DVOA) in 3 of his 4 seasons. I'm not saying he's actually doing a good job, but I find it very, very weird that someone so widely considered incompetent has generally produced very good results.
(3) The Steelers were absolutely Cowher's team when Tomlin took over, but four years is a very, very long time in the NFL. At this point, more than half the Steelers weren't starting in Pittsburgh in 2006. They have 35 players who weren't on the team in 2006, including some very, very key contributors (Mendenhall, Wallace, Timmons, Woodley). While the team certainly has plenty of connections to the Cowher era, it's been long enough that I think Tomlin should start getting some credit not just for managing to keep things solid as he took the reins, but for continuing to lead an elite team after more than enough time has elapsed for things to fall apart under incompetent leadership.
When Mendenhall ran for 35 on the first offensive play against Carolina, and when Roethlisberger hit Wallace with a long TD pass on the first offensive play at Cleveland, I wondered how many people were giving Arians credit for those calls.
I mean no disrespect to anyone who posts here, but I see/hear enough complaints about offensive coordinators in the wider football-watching population that I'm coming to believe that blaming the OC for every call that doesn't work is the first step toward pseudo-sophistication among too many fans. ("I know which assistant coach made the call, and since he should have called something else, he should be fired.") That's not to say that every coordinator is a genius, or even competent, but it's become much too common to blame everything on him no matter how good he is or isn't.
I think the first should drive you crazier Rocco. Tomlin is a fine coach who is acting within his limitations. I dont think he was hired simply because he was a minority, but lets face it, the rule is named for the patriarch of the Rooney family. Rooney had to feel that all things being equal, he would like to have a minority as head coach. Remember, he basically threw Whisenhunt and Grimm out the door with his Tomlin hiring (equally important would be Tomlin's youth, which like race is an uncontrollable factor).
Tomlin is a good coach because he has an all-time great defensive coordinator, a great quarterback and other great players on both sides of the ball. He knows how to motivate his players and not screw up what he has.
LeBeau is certainly an incredible asset, and I don't mean to suggest that he's anything other than an elite DC. But the Bills went 6-10 with him in 2003, the Bengals went a combined 14-37 when he was their DC from 1997-2000, and they had seasons of 8-8 (2x), 7-9, 4-11, and 3-13 with him in that position the first time around (1984-1991). Clearly having LeBeau on your staff is a very, very good thing, but it's also a far cry from guaranteeing anything.
As for Roethlisberger, he's easily a top-10 QB, but I think Tomlin demonstrated at the beginning of the year that his squad is capable of doing quite well, even with the likes of Leftwich/Batch/Dixon at the position. As for "having great players on both sides of the ball," I won't deny that, but I'd like to see a coach who has experienced regular success without some excellent players on the roster.
The factors you named have certainly helped Tomlin, but to say he's a good coach "because of" them doesn't really give him much of the credit he deserves.
foxlies Bill Cowher said that because Rodgers and Roethlisberger do a lot spontaneously the game will be great for anyone who enjoys 'improvision '. the collusion of the networks and the nfl provides us with such a collection of morons; collingsworth is ok but phil +terry plus boner pill johnson + factor back hoge +jaws et al; its truly a confederacy of dunces
He probably meant to say "improvisation." That doesn't seem too far-fetched does it? I mean if he contends that the two remaining quarterbacks are the two in the league who most excel at spontaneous decisions, then it's a reasonable expectation that if you enjoy improvisational play, this super bowl is likely to deliver a game you will find interesting.
I find raiderjoe's drunken posts easier to decipher than this.
foxlies if packers or steelers coached by Bellichik both games would be blowouts.I hate to see the prevent losing mode win...heinous.
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