Talk amongst yourselves
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
10 Aug 2011
Here is a thread for discussing all the 2011 preseason games as they happen!
Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 10 Aug 2011
92 replies , Last at
03 Sep 2011, 8:54pm by
still ponied up the $19.99 to watch it though...
Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of IRC football chat! Server: bendenweyr.dyndns.org, channel #fo
Brief instructions for the irc-shy:
go to chat.mibbit.com
click on server and paste bendenweyr.dyndns.org into the field
type #fo into the channel field, pick a nick and hit connect
With Barnwell gone, who will delete the IRC spam?
Ideally nobody, I think one post in an open thread is pretty innocuous and FO IRC is a proud institution going back almost to the inception of the site
I agree, I was trying for a joke there, but it fell pretty flat.
I guess I should have noticed from the lack of content with his name on it, but I hadn't realized Barnwell left. Ah, just found the "goodbye" piece. Simmons, eh? I had kind of hoped he and Carroll were starting an Outsider Apostates site with nothing but "stats are for losers" articles.
Gabbert's got a quick release.
Wow, Eagles look really good on offense against the Ravens first teamers.
Tarvaris Jackson, with no one within 5 yards of him, spots his check open, and instead of stepping into this throw and driving it, lofts it off his back foot. Predictably he overthrows his receiver in the flat, and it's incomplete.
That's the Tarvaris Jackson we knew and loved in Minnesota.
So to sum up his series:
1st - He converted a third down with a 7 yard pass. He then hit a 5 yard pass on first down. Then from midfield he got an intentional Grounding penalty which effectively killed the drive, though he did scramble for 8 yards on 2nd and 20.
2nd - He completed a 1 yard pass on 2nd and 4, then picked up the first on a scramble. After getting another first via penalty he was sacked on consecutive plays forcing a punt from 4th and 27.
It is good to see Jackson's familiarity with Bevell's offense has him in his typical midseason form.
Don't get me wrong, I like him as a person. And when plays go precisely as designed he can execute them competently. But when the first or second read isn't there, when it breaks down due to pressure... his ability to improvise is... worse than bad. If a play starts off badly then his lack of football instincts take over and by that I mean he takes a bad situation and makes it worse.
I didn't get to actually see this game. Did they have him attempt to do any play action (I know it is usually hard to tell with him)...
I only saw the 3rd Q + some of the 4th--and all I have to say is that Whitehurst looked pretty good. Don't know what his stats say--and like I said, I didn't see anything before the half, so maybe he stunk up the end of the 2nd Q--but he made some good throws, put the ball where it's supposed to go, etc.
On another note, either the 2nd string SD d-line is awesome, or the 2nd string O-line of SEA is just REALLY HORRIBLE. No push in the run game; Carpenter got pushed back into Whitehurst like he was a 180 lb. WR trying to block Warren Sapp/John Randle in their primes at least once; other guys just seeming like they were playing basketball (i.e, no moving screens, no pushing, just stand in the way and make the player run around you); it was PATHETIC. [BTW, I'm a Saints fan, just wanting to watch a little bit of a game--and, IMO, it might be a little of both--SD has good backup DL's, and SEA--well, do they have competent STARTERS on their O-line?]
Gruden can't contain himself and makes a Corey "too legit to quit" pun. Groans heard across the nation, or whoever is subjecting themselves to Gruden calling a preseason game.
why do the 'Open Game Discussion Threads' have to be a link upon a link?
Interesting. I thought I was the only one who got aggravated by such a small issue.
We're going to look into fixing that problem this year.
No no, it really is that annoying.
Yes. Yes it is.
I hope the Eagles' new punter was either just having jitters or someone told him to not try too hard so people wouldn't be hurt or something. 18 yard net (touchback), 32 yards net (touchback), 34 yards net (no return), 28 yards net (no return). That's pretty bad.
yeah, that was brutal. I understand letting akers go (on a certain level) but what was the point of ditching Rocca? Was there ever any explanation of that?
Not that I saw. Rocca signed for ~$1M with the Redskins, so it would've cost them a bit, but not too much. Obviously Henry's functionally free, though. Rocca wasn't the world's most consistent punter, but he was well above average according to FO, and rookie college punters are about the worst bet you can make in general.
I really, really don't get that one. A bad punter can cost you a ton (Miracle at the New Meadowlands, anyone?), and they suffered through Rocca's early years developing, only to let him go when he's developed into an above-average punter? Salary dump is the only thing that makes sense to me, which is a bit worrying. Part of the reason I'm so skeptical on the Eagles this year is that a bunch of the moves seem more like dumps to gain cap room rather than calculated moves to make the team better.
One of those touchbacks landed on the 5, spent 4 seconds trickling sideways while surrounded by 5 Eagles, and was a touchback only because no one thought to stop the ball before it just nicked the goal line. Short of running down himself and stopping it, there wasn't much more the punter could have done. It was pretty much a perfect kick.
Yeah, I didn't see the game so I was hoping someone else could comment.
That said... what about the other kicks?
I don't know, that first punt probably should have been jumped on by one of the 2 coverage guys, but it was still a shallow bullet of a kick. All of his kicks were distressingly shallow, if they hadn't been short as well, he would have been out-kicking his coverage by a mile.
On the bright side, the new kicker looks like a Gostkowski-type - he hit his field goals (which were chip shots), but more importantly every single one of his kick-off's made it into the endzone and several were deep enough for touch-backs. He was really booming them and I thought it might be wind, but whichever end he kicked from, they went nice and deep (and hung in the air.) Even the ones that got brought out were only modest returns...
they moved kickoffs up to the 35, and touchbacks are going to be the norm, not the exception, now
Ridiculously pretty back shoulder TD from Stafford to Megatron on the Lions first drive. Just a gorgeous, effortless play. Best looks like he has his burst back in the first few plays.
I know I'm by no means alone on this one, but I am really excited to keep tabs on the Lions this year.
Well at this point I think I can safely say it's time for the Lions to put in whoever our 3rd-string QB is. Not sure we're going to learn anything more about the offense tonight.
"When you absolutely don't know what to do any more, then it's time to panic." - Johann van der Wiel
Saw a highlight of that. Just shows that no matter how overrated arm strength seems to be, once in a while you see that it is important.
Suh really needs to stop body-slamming QBs
LOL KC game announcers following good run by Thomas Jones: he was the 'anchor' of their success last year
Well an anchor is a really heavy thing designed to keep a ship from moving, so with that in mind the analogy is apt.
No one saw that Tebow play live? I didn't either, actually, but deadspin mentioned it. I agree with the announcer, I'm not sure I've seen 3 declined penalties on a single play.
There was also an uncalled defensive facemask by Josh Thomas on Tebow . . .
Bernie Kosar always looks drunk.
Was I the only one who thought that first pass from McCoy to Hillis was a backward pass? it was ruled incomplete but no one went for the ball and a whistle eventually blew...
It looked like a lateral to me.
If you noticed, the sideline ref didn't immediately blow it dead. He only stopped the play after Hillis picked the ball up and stood still for awhile as the defense gave up. I think he finally blew it dead just so no one would get hurt.
Cameraman in the CLE/GB game isn't zooming into the QB after the snap, allowing you to actually see the secondary on passing plays. Pretty sweet.
Kinda hope that the HD movement will result in wider camera angles. One can hope.
well Colt McCoy looked pretty good that first drive....
Fumble and various failed attempts to recover leaves the Titans with 2nd & 40. You think they have any plays drawn up for that?
6 runningbacks carrying a ball.
11 different people catching a pass.
26 people who made a tackle.
...Welcome to the preseason?
Some impressions from the Bears game last night:
- Jamarcus Webb is just not an NFL left tackle right now. Garza was pretty bad at center, and Lance Louis got smoked several times at right guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see Spencer at center soon, with Garza going back to RG and Louis grabbing some pine (unfortunately we don't have anyone to plug in at LT... but hey, we signed Vernon Gholston! /puke) . Carimi looked good in the run game but seemed to get driven back too easily in pass pro, it didn't look like he had a lot of leverage when he had to pass block.
- Barber looked good on one drive, but there's a lot of guys that could probably look good running against the Bills second string defense. Not going to get too excited about that just yet.
- Tim Jennings is still really, really, really bad.
- If I am running an offense against the Bears defense, I'm running slant routes all day long. They haven't been able to stop slants for years now. Also, if I'm a quarterback and I see them doing that stupid crap with crowding Briggs and Urlacher up in the A gaps, I know with almost 100% certainty that they aren't actually blitzing, and that they won't be able to get back in time to defend the seam. This has also been going on for years.
- 8-8 is this Bears team's ceiling, barring another season full of stupid calls and incredible luck.
When Manning retires, they will become the Bills -- a very mediocre team with almost no fan appeal. Sad.
Because Wayne, Freeney, Saturday, Clark will be at the end of their careers too.
The same can probably be said for the Patriots. Though i guess the fanappeal is larger, but Boston has a lot of other sports going on.
Boston is a generally strong sports town, and the Patriots have had consistently good support since Kraft bought the team and actually started running it competently.
Boston fans will abandon an owner who clearly doesn't care, but it's an extremely strong sports town in a strong sports region. Until and unless Kraft turns into Al Davis or Ralph Wilson, the Patriots will have strong support--maybe not as strong as it is now, but certainly no worse than average even in a bad year.
If it's more like a bad decade, all bets are off. There ARE limits when you have four major sports teams, and the team lacking a long history is the one sucking wind.
Watching the pregame stuff on espn of the jets texans game.
Suzy Colbert looks pretty good for her age, I don't know her age actually but she, what what... WHAT THE HELL IS THAT ON HER SHOULDER?!
Finally getting a chance to watch the Panthers game. Newton is good at play action...
Since when is Brandon Jacobs a fullback?
ESPN crew is still zooming in at the QB after the snap... unfortunately.
Can someone talk to their boss?
That is the view of the game that the largest majority of the audience can best enjoy. Now granted - I'd rather the camera focus on the Guards and the Center and just watch them push eachother around all day - but I'm in the minoritiy there too. A wider view of the field is generally unattractive.
The QB dropping back is not a good view to analyze a game - that's why it isn't coaches tape. But ESPNs job is not to make coaches tape.
All the casual fans I know are blown away by the cable cam cause it "looks like a video game". I think 10 years from now it will be the dominant angle.
I would like to see some multiangle experimentation.
I prefer to watch the SNF game on NBC.com rather than broadcast TV for this reason. Main cam cable cam, secondary cam broadcast edit. That's the way to watch football.
With digital TV, I hold out hope that at some point it'll be possible to select whichever camera angle I want from the comfort of my own armchair. On UK TV (Sky Sports) we're at least usually able to select from different games during the 1pm and 4pm EST slots, with a separate channel which cycles through highlights of each game, and the option of Red Zone being added last season.
Ultimately, I hope for the ability to choose whichever camera angle I want for whichever game I want, with a choice of commentary feeds, up-to-the minute scorelines for the other games, the ability to switch games at the push of a button, and the ability to watch a replay of scores moments after they happen without having to switch to the Red Zone channel. Sky Sports already do pretty much that exact thing (minus the choice of camera angle, which is less important with soccer anyway) with their coverage of soccer's UEFA Champions League. I'd love to see NFL coverage reach the same level.
Push of a button? We'll have brain-scanning remote control headsets by then, for sure!
And Channel 5's coverage will still be better.
They will continue to add cameras until there is full Matrix-esque slow motion swoop arounds of every throw, catch, and tackle.
But the commentary will still mostly suck.
Mic every player and coach. Write software to selectively paste together an optimal set to serve as commentary.
ooooooh the option to switch off commentary and only hear the field and crowd noise would be soooooooo good.
Pistol sighting on Detroit's first snap vs Cleveland.
Stafford is GOOD. I had doubts about his accuracy coming out of college but damn does he throw a pretty ball.
Dolphins look good y'all.
There's a player on the Vikings defense with an Awesome last name. Literally.
If you're name is Awasom then you've at least reached level 9 on the awesome scale.
New levels of awesome:
Kolb looks like shit in this AZ/GB game.
Craziest thing about this Bears-Giants game: the Giants have absolutely dominated the special teams game. Every kickoff return for New York has been wide open up the middle, they've blocked a punt, and there was just an exchange where the Bears couldn't punch it in on 4th and goal, then both teams went 3-and-out and punted, and the Giants ended up with the ball on their 40. The Bears are actually outgaining the Giants on plays from scrimmage but are down 3 TDs.
The kid covering special teams on the inside left for the Bears - ma-wa-to-uh-no or whatever the hell his name was, should be cut this morning. If you watched, he couldn't get out of his lane fast enough...
Webb and Louis both looked better than last week. That's important. Carmimi looks like a good one. Barber looks like the best #2 RB we have had since Neal Anderson was behind #34. And Roy Williams looks...lost. Hopefully that experiment ends soon and they go back to Knox starting.
My biggest concern is that, for the first time in a long time, I think this team is extremely thin at LB. We used to go 5 or 6 deep. I'm now wondering if we go anywhere past Piso...
I thought Iwuh looked pretty good.
I wonder if LB depth is really something the Bears should even worry about. The dropoff from Urlacher or Briggs to even an average starter is huge, much less just a competent backup. If one of them goes down, we're pretty much screwed. So does it matter if we're only mostly screwed instead of completely screwed?
IMHO - it very much matters. Those guys (2nd and 3rd string LBs) are usually your CORE ST contributors. They cover kicks and are often key blockers. The Bears NEED that. Also, with Briggs and Urlacher aging, it would be nice to have some depth so that we are only marginally screwed for a game or two, not totally screwed.
That's a good point about special teams I didn't consider.
Couple that, with the fact that the 3 starters are a bit older, and sometimes will need to sit for whatever reason... I'm just accustomed to the Bears having depth at this position when the stars were much younger. As they get older, it's not the time to not have depth.
Depth in general is not this team's strength. Now I agree - I want great starters before depth, but if a team is to really be a contender EVERY year, depth is very important. The best teams in the NFL are also usually the deepest ones, not the ones with the best Top5 players.
I agree depth is important. I just don't feel very concerned about this particular aspect. Urlacher has never had a minor injury that made him miss just one game. He's either going to play or miss significant time. Briggs has occasionally, but like I said above, I thought Iwuh played pretty well.
If there is one position I trust this team to develop, it's linebacker. So I kind of expect some random player to step up at some point this year and look decent.
I'm much more concerned about depth at DE, where we have Peppers, and no one else I particularly like, and corner where it's the same case except with Tillman.
Cutler had a couple real nice throws. That bomb up the sideline where he stepped up in the pocket and reset VERY fast, then gave the shoulder wiggle to move the safety to the middle of the field. And that fake-draw with the crazy deep Martz routes was a beauty as well.
I'd like to see more of Knox next week and less of Roy Williams - not that we really could see much less out of Roy than we did last night.
Can't wait till Ray Lewis is in the booth. (but please let him finish him career first) No training, no scripts. Just be Ray Lewis.
That guy is the definition of a want-to-play-for middle linebacker.
Hey -- I'm looking for players to join a sort-of-advanced-metrics fantasy league. QBs are more important than RBs, and points are awarded for efficiency instead of raw count stats. Also, there are 11 IDPs, so it's for obsessives. Got seven people in it, but looking for a few more to make it really viable.
Check it out, and if uninterested you can drop out. furtigan at gmail if any questions ... though I'll probably be losing power today ...
Polamalu looks like his good ol' good old.
Good in coverage, bad in open space, good near the LOS.
Welcome back Troy.
Jason campbell's pass is batted down into the hands of 300 lb lineman Hoyer, who, unnoticed by the D-line, rumbles forward about 10 yards for a first down. Love seeing linemen with the ball. You could see the grin on his face after he got up from the booth...
Here's the video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d821cc5a3/Raiders-l.... I agree that's fun to see. Here's my favorite from last year on the other side of the ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hieq2NfaTkE.
Runningback kid looks good for the Raiders. Will remember him when round 7 comes around in the FF league.
Also, the Raiders coaches are in pre season form. They had a penalty, but opted for a 3-12 instead of a 4-2 early in the 1st q.
If McFadden is available in round 7 in your league, I want an invite to that league.
Bears Vs Tenn - both Louis and Webb looked a lot better in game 3 than they did earlier. Carimi is going to be a good one. Williams at G is very much a strength. And I like what Garza does.
The line should be much improved over 2010 and that bodes well for keeping Cutler healthy and opening holes for Forte.
I'm not sold on Martz's offense yet - but an improved OL would be a good first step.
I was just rewatching the Steelers and Falcons preseason game from last week. On one play towards the end of the first half Matt Ryan scrambled for a first down, fumbled without being touched, and then recovered his own fumble.
Now it occurs to me that very often on a strip sack painstaking efforts are taken to determine whether the ball is going forward, making the play an incomplete pass, or not, making the play a fumble. On the scramble, Matt Ryan hasn't been hit, and when he fumbles the ball his hand is indeed going forward. I'm curious as to what differentiates a fumble from an illegal forward pass in that scenario. Is there a difference whether the QB is in or out of the pocket? Behind or beyond the line of scrimmage? How about for running backs, after all they are allowed to pass as well. s intent involved?
Don't get me wrong, I have no nits to pick with the call. It was very obviously correct from the commonsense perspective. I'm just curious as to whether there are rules or instructions for the referee on how to handle those situations, and if so what they are.
Now it occurs to me that very often on a strip sack painstaking efforts are taken to determine whether the ball is going forward
I believe you are wrong. They are trying to decide if his arm is going forward. I think that solves your dilemma.
I was being a little sloppy with the wording. It's actually the hand that must be going forward, but the ball is in that hand and so moves as the hand moves. Arm wouldn't work as a rule. Make a throwing motion and watch your arm. It's not a simple motion, and indeed your elbow will be moving forward before your hand begins to. If the ball is dislodged during that period is it a fumble or incomplete pass. It's a fumble because the hand wasn't moving forward.
Regardless, no answer to that question solves the dilemma. Assume that in the circumstances described above the entire arm, hand, and ball are all moving forward (as was the case for Ryan).
Was Ryan making a throwing motion? The painstaking efforts to determine movement of the ball on a stripsack only occur when the passer's making a throwing motion. If he's simply hit from behind then there's no attempt to determine what direction his ball and/or hand were moving as he's not trying to throw the ball.
That's a good point. He was most certainly not doing anything remotely like a normal throwing motion (as opposed to a shovel pass motion). He was basically running like how you'd see someone jogging on the street, except he had a football in one hand.
It's not abot "moving forward". It is about making a throwing motion.
Throwing motion may very well be involved, but if you're in a throwing motion and the ball is knocked loose while your hand is still moving backwards, that is a fumble. Whether the hand is moving forward is absolutely a factor.
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties