Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

05 Jul 2009

do you like football now more over before more?

Football is not the smae as it ever was. Free agency, short passing game, too many dumb uniforms (falcons, seahawks, Broncos, and some others., good annpuncers like J Madden and Summerall retire. CBS has aFC games now. Fox has NFC. Old way was CBS did NFC and NBC did AFC. Always at end of CBS games in 1980s Summerall say "following game stay tunned for 60 minuets followed by MNurder She Wrote" Now NFC channel announcers say to stay turned for some crap shows that dont even sound cool.

salary cap make it so that like maybe third of teams change entirie rosster each season so this cause less loyallty for fans don't even know half the players on temam wach year need a lineup book.

NFl just doesnt seem as food as it used to.

Posted by: Raiderjoe on 05 Jul 2009

44 replies , Last at 15 Aug 2009, 11:54pm by Slade

1
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Phil (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 2:34pm

Maybe not, but it seems more drink than ever.

2
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Big Johnson (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 2:53pm

lol

3
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Temo :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 3:12pm

Looks like the Raider's malaise has even effected their #1 fan. I do agree with a lot of what you've said, RJ. ESPN in particular has been a terrible commentating machine on professional football.

4
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by David :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 3:32pm

Counting my blessings from when I started following football...

Proper free agency, no more indentured players, let alone the mess that was Plan B free agency

The same number of teams in each division (five teams, four teams, six teams...)

Fantasy Football!

No strike-shortened seasons of player unrest

Live games that I don't have to travel 3000 miles to see (okay, this may just be a UK thing...)

All of the things listed in the article are changes for the worse (I could have added the year-round cycle of news, the over-emphasis on the draft, Peter King...) but things have improved in other areas. Outside of my nostalgia-tinted specs (curse you NFL films, I should never have bought those things), Football is still pretty gud

5
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by mattymatty :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 3:45pm

Poetry. No other word for it.

6
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by dsouten :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 3:48pm

I am thrilled to hear Raiderjoe is a Murder She Wrote fan. I hope he will grace us with a summary of his favorite episode.

14
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by BigCheese :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 5:02pm

With such a cool-sounding name, how could he not?

- Alvaro

7
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Yaguar :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 3:54pm

I like football now better than I did when I first started watching in 1996.

I feel that this may have something to do with the fact that my team drafted Peyton Manning.

18
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Briguy :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 6:23pm

Agree. I think that's a common theme with people from the Indianapolis area. It isn't just Manning, though, although he's the face we put on it. Even 10 years ago, with Payton already playing, I never would have believed that football would be more popular than basketball in Indiana. The arrival of Manning (and Dungy) gave the Colts an image of a very morally upright, down-to-earth, what's-best-for-the-community sports franchise that resonated well with the religious, relatively conservative fan base in central Indiana. The fact that they win a lot doesn't hurt.

It isn't just the Colts, though; the Pacers are very much to blame for the huge drop in the popularity of basketball. Combine all the above with the disgust at the on-court failures and thuggery of the recent Pacers teams, and it turned Naptown into a football city. Never would have thunk it.

8
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by buzzorhowl (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 3:57pm

I feel like it's way different now than it was when I was 5 and started watching it a lot (1981 season), but just as many of the changes have been good as bad. I do miss some of the more smashmouth styles that have gone by the wayside, but instant replay is used pretty much perfectly now, in my opinion, and it's definitely good that free agency has replaced what another commenter called indentured servitude (I've read about how players' contracts worked 10 or 20 years before I was born, and it was just awful). The style of gameplay may have changed, but I still have a blast watching, and nothing can stay the same forever, so on the whole I'm fine with it.

9
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by panthersnbraves :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 4:11pm

I have to agree at least partly with the Free-Agency. It's not just football though. Aging vets, and good but not great players always end up "Salary Cap Casualties" to pay for rookies, or to steal high-priced superstar free-agents. Your favorite team loses all of the people you spent time getting to know.

... and I want replays with different views of the play, or Madden on the telestrator. Not some comedian, or yet another ED, truck, or TV trailer commercial.

19
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by ThunderThumbs (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 6:47pm

Maybe veterans (like more than eight years) could count less against the salary cap. Like, only 75c of every dollar would count against the salary cap. They'd still get the big money, but they'd stick around longer and a team would have more incentive to resign them.

I'm not sure if I mean just for the team they're already at, or for other teams too. I don't really feel like thinking this idea through. :)

30
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by bengt (not verified) :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 10:09am

That's exactly how it's done, there is a salary-cap-charge-cap for really old veterans.

10
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by firesnake429 (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 4:24pm

The current division format is a piece of crap. It should go back to three divisions per conference, because these days one weak team automatically qualifies for the playoffs and one good team stays at home.

I said that when they invented this format (which looks good in theory but doesn't work in reality), and have been proven oh so right.

Ah, and TMQ was better a couple of years ago.

11
Oh boy
by Kevin Eleven :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 4:26pm

At first, I didn't get it.

For sixty seconds I read the thread title, and was like "WHAT"?

12
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Dean :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 4:33pm

I think you have to take the good with the bad.

On the one hand, the sensory assault provided by Fox - courtesy of their sponsors - and parroted by the other networks, well, it just sucks. The influence of Madden on kids who think they know football yet the only chinstrap they've ever buckled is on their bicycle, well, that sucks too. And don't even get me started on those #$%^&* talking robots.

Even fantasy football is a two-edged sword. Fantasy geeks who don't care about the game, just their fantasy team are annoying. I took last year off as an experiment, and decided I liked football better when I just cheered on my team. If I didn't have a rooting interest when Detroit played Houston, so what? But I wouldn't say it's better or worse, just two different ways to enjoy the game. (but I doubt I'll bother with a fantasy team this year)

But these are all peripherals. And come to think of it - it would be wonderful if instead of a new version of Tivo, maybe Sony could invent a TV that deleted all the graphics and just gave you the game? Maybe market it as Old-School or something?

But what about the game itself? In terms of sheer speed, power, agility, athleticism, artistry, power, etc, the game keeps upping the bar.

We constantly have compelling stories to follow. And here's the key - they're only constantly beaten to death via espn-overkill if you let them. Change the channel. Media-boycott Super Bowl Week and when the latest diva WR acts up. Click the little "x" in the upper right hand corner when Peter King starts swinging from someone's nuts. Big Media only sucks the joy out of the game if you let them.

I wasn't really sure where I was going with this when I started typing. I just knew that I still love football every bit as much today as I did when Miami ran the Hook and Ladder against San Diego in '81. And the more I type, the more I realize that the game itself is still as great as it ever was. There's still nothing that compares to seeing a back get hit so hard he has snot bubbles coming out his nose. There's still no moment in any sport, anywhere, quite like the sheer beauty of 80,000 fans all holding their breath while watching a little brown pigskin soar majestically through the air to a receiver streaking down the sideline. Nothing touches that. The beauty and the brutality. It's all there.

Football is kind of like America itself. Flawed? Sure. Always will be. It's still the best thing going. That's getting dangerously close to politics so I'll end that thought here before I ruffle anyones hypersensitive feathers.

The game itself is still great. It's all the peripherals that suck. And we can always - if we choose to do so - tune those out.

Thank you, Raiderjoe. Just typing this turned out to be a nice reminder to myself about everything great about this game.

13
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Alex (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 4:36pm

I was at a game at the Oregon State stadium a few years ago, and their video board showed a replay of every single play, no matter what - incomplete pass, 2 yard run, whatever. I loved it, and I wish that all broadcasts would do this, instead of showing the star player playing with his uniform on the sideline for a few seconds between plays.

15
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by BigCheese :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 5:13pm

I started watching in 84 and here are the changes I've experienced since then (bear in mind, some of this is colored by being a fan in Mexico).

Instant Replay (best development in my lifetime).
Free agency (both good and bad, but mostly good).
Salary Cap (definitely count this as a plus).
No more strikes (although that might change soon).
Two-point conversion (heck yes!).
Realignment to have an equal number of teams per division (yes, a weaker team often makes it, but the idea that it also means a strong team always misses because of that is ridiculous. Not only does it not happen every year, it also happened under the old system).
Being able to watch more than two games a week (which was the norm here. Even worse, on year they didn't show any games on open TV. And I'm talking 2004!)
Being able to actually watch my Bears. Or at least follow them online via either radio or nfl.com
Fantasy football!!!!
A game being played in my city (a game which btw is by far the one with the most attendance in NFL history, even though it featured two DREADFUL teams, including the Arizona Cardinals!!! So why does England keep getting the game every year now??????)
Sites like this one which let me have intelligent conversations with fans from around the world (and interact with Raiderjoe), as well as helping me appreciate the game on more levels.
America's Game, probably the best sports-related TV ever.

So yeah, I enjoy football even more now.

- Alvaro

16
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Bright Blue Shorts :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 5:32pm

"A game being played in my city (a game which btw is by far the one with the most attendance in NFL history, even though it featured two DREADFUL teams, including the Arizona Cardinals!!! So why does England keep getting the game every year now??????)"

Firstly England's game had two dreadful teams ... the 1-15 Dolphins and the mediocre 10-6 Giants ...

Secondly if England had a stadium big enough it would have sold half a million tickets for the game.

Thirdly I suspect there's better opportunity to print money from merchandising the NFL to Europeans than Mexicans ...

26
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by BigCheese :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 1:57am

"Firstly England's game had two dreadful teams ... the 1-15 Dolphins and the mediocre 10-6 Giants ..."

That was the first time around. They're on their third.... And Saints/Chargers sounded pretty nice before the begining of last season. Patriots/Bucs this year doesn't sound too bad either... OK, the Patriots don't sound too bad.

"Secondly if England had a stadium big enough it would have sold half a million tickets for the game."

But they don't. Mexico not only has the stadium, but has the proven track record of seeling out every game that's been here, including the biggest NFL attendance, achieved during a friggin PRE-SEASON game (regular season record was the Cards/Niners). Mexico has 4 of the top 10 attendances for NFL games, including #1 and #2, both for pre-season games. And on a night where the National Soccer team was playing the finals of the Junior World Cup, still managed to put over 100,000 people in the stands, for the 7th-largest NFL crowd ever (just 200 shy of SB XVII and 518 shy of SB XIV).

Also, you're basing your claim on what exactly? The fact that they sold 81,176 tickets out of a 86,000 seats gets you to half a million, a full 1/12th of the population of London, how? That's a pretty big leap, wouldn't you say?

And I'm not saying gives us all the games, I'm saying why not alternate?

"Thirdly I suspect there's better opportunity to print money from merchandising the NFL to Europeans than Mexicans ..."

A) Englanders and Europeans are not the same thing. For that they should go to Germany where the game is actually more accepted.

B) Could be, considering that "Mexico is the NFL's second-largest market for merchandise sales and viewership." (From the San Diego Tribune), so there are probably more untapped customers in England. But I very much doubt that giving them one game will create tons of fans, as opposed to feeding and growing the already existing fan-base of a country with over double the population as England, and who can actualyl watch the games at a sane time due to being in the same time-zone.

- Alvaro

27
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Sifter :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 3:17am

England is richer than Mexico - blunt, but that's what it comes down to. England's potential market is bigger than the Mexican one, is has nothing to do with who has 30,000 more seats in their stadium.

37
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by BigCheese :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 6:56pm

England, as a whole is indeed richer than Mexico.

But even disregarding the fact that some of the richest men in the world live in Mexico, the sheer volume of population means that the market is about the same.

While the percentage of Mexicans who are a target for NFL tickets and merchandise is far smaller than the percentage of Englishmen, it is of a far bigger number, thus leveling things out. Hence the fact that we are already the NFL's second biggest market after the US.

- Alvaro

38
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Pat (filler) (not verified) :: Wed, 07/08/2009 - 5:18pm

The big question is whether or not the revenue from the Mexico City game was more than the London game or not. I've got a feeling that ticket sales were probably lower in Mexico City.

40
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Mr Shush :: Wed, 07/08/2009 - 5:36pm

If the percentage of the Mexican population who are potentially a market for the NFL is indeed "far smaller" than the equivalent percentage for the UK, I assure you that the absolute number in the UK is significantly greater. Per the CIA World Factbook, Mexico's population is 111,211,789. The UK's is 61,113,205. If, on the other hand, we think wealth is the critical factor, the UK's GDP (by official exchange rate, which clearly is the relavent figure from the NFL's point of view) is $2.231 trillion, to Mexico's $1.143 trillion. Of course, if it wasn't for the "no politics" rule I might be tempted to observe that Uncle Gordon seems to be trying quite hard to reverse that situation . . . Oh drat. Darn, bother and blast. Poot.

I suspect, however, that other key factors are that the current extent of market penetration in the UK is far lower (ie. more room for growth), and that London is seen as a more suitable city for a potential overseas expansion team, due to the common first language and far lower crime levels. NFL players and execs, I suspect, would be far happier living in London than in Mexico City. There are probably still some decent properties vacated by bust bankers that haven't yet been bought by Russians or Saudis . . .

39
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Bright Blue Shorts :: Wed, 07/08/2009 - 5:33pm

Hi Alvaro ...

I was being a little flippant about the Giants/Dolphins game. The Dolphins were rubbish and the Giants were in the match, but they ended up Super Bowl champions; so we got lucky.

In terms of ticket sales, there was a "Registry of Interest" prior to ticket sales. I quote from the Guardian newspaper ... "Demand vastly outstripped supply when the NFL asked fans to register interest in February, with the organisation receiving requests for more than 500,000 tickets within 72 hours."

If the game didn't actually sell out (which I believe it did and empty seats were just no shows) it's due to how the tickets were sold and priced. Hospitality suite seats were kept back and only made available a few weeks before the game at high prices. This year a top suite costs £399!

My mention of England and Europe is that I know there were a good many people willing to make the relatively short and cheap journey from Netherlands, Germany, France etc. Flights can be as cheap as £10 between some of the smaller airports in England and Europe. And of course while we've been talking about England, we're actually really talking about the United Kingdom / Great Britain and its total population of around 60 million.

But hey, all in all I'm sure Mexico will get another game sometime along with all the other sites they went to during the American Bowl series of the past.

41
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Dales :: Thu, 07/09/2009 - 10:51am

Two dreadful teams?

Since when is mediocre a subset of dreadful?

And since when is 10-6 mediocre?

17
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Raiderjoe :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 5:37pm

Was a little bit in party modd when writing that yesterday and sepelled good as food by mistake. So what. never said typing was strongsuit.
some things better, some things worse. Even fre agency like that. Good that players can move around and bad teams can become good teams from one seaosn to next but bad that fans cant stay attached to players like did in old days.

most unfiorms crappier except Raiders Bears Redskins and some others.
Erection commercials not fun to watch all the time. In mid 1980s Miller Lite used to have cool commericlas where guy ask for lite and bartender give him a lamp or glowstick or speelunker helemt with light on it or flashlight. Then guy would have to correct him by saying he want Miller lite. The bartender give him a bottle of beer. That just one example. Now some real crap commercals always on. But sport still good maybe slightly worse than in 1980s but better than 90s.
if rank decades this is order for me
1. 1980s
2. 2000s
3 1990s

21
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by HoleInZone :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 7:06pm

I couldn't be happier to hear RaiderJoe once again using the phrase "and some others".

The new season must be fast approaching. Truly superb.

And some others.

23
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by ibanez_ax (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 8:49pm

"Erection commercials not fun to watch all the time."

Thank you. I needed a good bellylaugh after a shitty day at work.

34
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Chris Owen (not verified) :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 10:55am

I got a real belly laugh out of "speelunker helemt". And some others.

This inspired me to google my favorite Gillette foamy commercials from the 1980's, such as the one in which a mound of shaving cream wasn't thick and rich enough to stop a speeding rollercoaster. I found another one (link in name) that may as well have been an ad for Cialis or Levitra, so it's not like erection ads are all that new.

20
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by FantasyStooge (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 6:48pm

I nominate RaiderJoe as Peter King's next fill-in writer.

33
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Doug Farrar :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 10:54am

I second.

22
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 8:39pm

Heaps more, but I'm in Australia and i get at least 5 games a week live as opposed to only the Super Bowl live and games shown 11pm on Tuesday night a week late. Fox also edits replays so they only take a couple of hours.

The annoying thing is ESPN.
1. Why are they shouting at me?
2. Why do they cram replays full of adverts then shorten the game "due to time constraints"
3. What are matthew mcconaughey and drew carey doing in the booth on MNF, let alone Kornholio?
4. Mark Schlereth!?!?!

24
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by t.d. :: Mon, 07/06/2009 - 9:06pm

This is also the golden age for competitive Super Bowls, like the 80's was for the ncaa tournament.

25
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Noah of Arkadia :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 12:20am

I use to enjoy it more, but I wouldn't say it's better or worse. I enjoy TV sports less in general now.

Those Miller (or was it Bud?) lite commercials were cool. I remember them, too. I think the line was "not just a lite".

28
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Theo :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 3:43am

I like the game more, because I get to understand more with every year.
But please, stop littering the TV screen.
I've watched some '70 Super Bowls and it was perfect without the graphics.

29
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by malene, cph (not verified) :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 7:23am

pretty much the first time I ever actually lol'ed from a comment. Lol'ed at the headline, lol'ed at at least 5 different comments, then by accident reloaded the frontpage and lol'ed again at the thread title.

Then I wondered what the connection is between spelling good as food and being in a party mode. And lol'ed again.

People at this library are looking at me funny. And some others.

31
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by jumpin jahosafat (not verified) :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 10:15am

#29 (malene), um, are you on drugs?

32
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by James-London :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 10:31am

I like the NFL better now because I get to see it. Say what you like about Rupert Murdoch, but's he's revolutionised the way sport is covered in the UK. The rise of the web helps too. I get Raiderjoe now.

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

35
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by The Ninjalectual :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 2:39pm

I like football now, because of football before. When I was a kid watching Mark Rypien-led Redskins games, I had nothing to compare the experience to, no baseline. Football today is fun because football 15 years ago was fun too!

Although I don't remember getting downright annoyed at dumb ads that repeated EVERY SINGLE COMMERCIAL BREAK. Though I do remember, even then, hating the TD/commercial/kickoff/comercial meme.

----------------------------
"Just look at that pumpkin."
-John Madden, looking at the moon.

36
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Verified (not verified) :: Tue, 07/07/2009 - 6:17pm

I like Raiderjoe now more over before more.

And some others.

42
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Briguy :: Thu, 07/09/2009 - 12:59pm

I'm trying to find the Raiderjoe post that originally contained "and some others." Does anyone know if it's still floating around somewhere and which discussion it was in?

43
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Jimmy :: Fri, 07/24/2009 - 12:37pm

To all the folks complaining about the adverts during the games, just mute them. Seriously just mute them all, every single advert that pops up on your television. It takes maybe a day or two to get used to automatically muting the telly when the ads start to run but after that you stop paying them any attention any more, without the sound they have no ability to attract your attention.

My brother started doing this when he got fed up with having to turn the telly down when the adverts would be at a higher volume than the programs and then expanded it to all adverts. When he came to stay with me and did the same thing I thought it was ridiculous until he left and the adverts came back. So I started muting them too. Life is better without adverts and all you have to do to avoid them is mute them because without the sound they don't work.

Mute all your adverts to prevent your brrain being infiltrated with drivel! (OK I could probably come up with a better slogan)

44
Re: do you like football now more over before more?
by Slade (not verified) :: Sat, 08/15/2009 - 11:54pm

It's better than it was in the 80s or early 90s and it's not that close.

I don't fondly look back on the era of teams overpaying to stockpile talent, or the simpler playbooks, or boring games they caused. The league today is more balanced and more exciting.

You're right though, Fox's NFL broadcast is for shit.

Login or register to post comments