Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

22 Nov 2013

Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V

Memories, like the corners of our lives. Distant watercolored memories, of the way we were.

And now, let us begin Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V:

Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 22 Nov 2013

63 replies , Last at 13 Jan 2014, 11:02am by spujr

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by young curmudgeon :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 7:36pm

Now if you could just bring back Catholic Match Girl...

12
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:14pm

+1,000,000

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 7:50pm

+1,000,001

2
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by young curmudgeon :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 7:38pm

I thought I'd summed this up successfully back in one of the earlier versions, but for those of you who weren't paying attention:

Except for those aspects of the game in which Brady is better than Manning, Manning is superior to Brady.

16
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by CBPodge :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 5:03am

How dare you say that! It's obvious that except those aspects of the game in which Manning is better than Brady, Brady is superior to Manning.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by young curmudgeon :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 3:41pm

Hmmm...you make a compelling point!

40
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:10pm

You cretin! I assert there are many areas in which Manning and Brady are equal!

3
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by rfh1001 :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 7:38pm

I prefer Brady because one of his legs is both the same.

4
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by TimK :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 8:05pm

Doesn't that imply he weighs the same as a duck?

In which case he will float, and therefore is a witch, and must be burnt!

17
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by CBPodge :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 5:06am

If he weighs the same as a duck, does that mean his vocal chords are constructed in the same way, and his audibles won't echo?

5
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Noah of Arkadia :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 8:13pm

I have a hard time getting into this, since Manning is so clearly superior.

------
The man with no sig

6
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Sunset Shazz (not verified) :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 9:29pm

Please note that the correct lyrics are "Misty water colored memories".

[Actually had to learn the song in 4th grade]

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:12pm

Excuse me while I kiss this guy.

13
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by dbostedo :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:03am

No problem... there's a bathroom on the right

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by young curmudgeon :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 3:43pm

What!?! You mean the Earl o' Moray is dead!?!

7
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Michael LaRocca (not verified) :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:01pm

The greatest QB of all time was Jim Kelly. Tough as hell, called his own plays, always knew where his helmet was.

10
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by the K :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:41pm

DAMN right.

8
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:10pm

By the laws of clutchitude and winnerosity, Adam Vinatieri is superior to both.

9
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by The Hypno-Toad :: Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:38pm

I at least smiled, and more often than not actually laughed a bit at each of the first 8 comments. I love this site.

14
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by RickD :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:14am

No game thread for this week, Aaron?

(Priorities?)

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by shoutingloudly :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 1:03am

Football Outsiders is clearly ranked too high because Aaron actually has a life, and real football fans know that nothing is more important than arguing about gridiron legacy. The ESPN comments section is way better than this. Go Broncs! Show dem Pats whose da boss!

In all seriousness, (a) I get the irony and am only adding your chops to the collective chop-busting (and getting another round in on Aaron in the process. Really: take care of your business, you're a national treasure). Also, (b) I think Peyton is the best quarterback ever — by the slimmest of margins over Brady. And I thought that when he was consistently whipping our orange-and-blue hindquarters, so it's not just homerism. (Give Manning that kind of defense & coaching, and several more SB appearances would've been likely.) Though Brady is about as close to tied as possible, I think he gets too much credit for being on overall better teams.

More importantly: Re-elect Rob Ford!

34
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Go pats (not verified) :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 4:57pm

NO way, worst mayor ever, he makes us look like total idiots. Wait a second, we are idiots since we voted for him

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Voltairitarian (not verified) :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 7:16am

Only one of these QBs adds to his team on more than offense- Brady is head and shoulders the better punter

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 9:44am

But you can't buy a Papa John's Pizza from Brady.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by steveNC (not verified) :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 10:17am

That is a clear advantage for Brady.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by JIPanick :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 11:22am

+1

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by young curmudgeon :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 3:44pm

+>1

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Sisyphus :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:03pm

Both these guys are great and probably Brees deserves honorable mention at least and there are others playing who have flashed bright and faded somewhat (Roethlisberger and Rivers some immediately to mind). I wonder if this is not the golden age of quarterbacking and the sun may be setting. If guys like RGIII and Wilson are the future quarterbacks are going to have much shorter careers. Perhaps Luck might be as good as these two someday if his offensive line doesn't get him killed and he can be as durable. We seem to be headed for a different type of NFL (there have already been several) and we may not see guys this good ever again so the best thing to do is enjoy what we have as there are not too many of these matchups left.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by MC2 :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:24pm

Don't forget Rodgers. If he can stay healthy, he should also end up pretty high on the QB totem pole.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Karl Cuba :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:36pm

If you're making a qb totem pole then you'd need Jared Lorenzen for a good solid base.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by FrontRunningPhinsFan :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:41pm

I see what you did there.

For my 2 cents on the discussion: I will always pick Manning. I'm obviously biased because I hate Tom Brady.

I've always believed Manning has more often been in an "unbeatable" zone where, no matter what the defense throws at him, they can't beat him.

In addition - Tom Brady has 14 Rushing TDs to Manning's 18. So Manning is superior there.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Leyoz :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:46am

Why doesn't Brady have more rushing TD's? Do QB sneaks not work on the goal line? He is ridiculous on a sneak.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by In_Belichick_We... :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:10pm

Belichick tries to keep Tom from getting touchdowns so he won't hurt his throwing shoulder. After all, he has been listed as "questionable - right shoulder" ever since the spike following his TD run against the Raiders in that perfectly officiated 2002 playoff game.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by spujr :: Mon, 01/13/2014 - 11:02am

In all this talk of great QBs why isn't Gabbert not being mentioned? :-)

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by young curmudgeon :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 3:51pm

You may be correct, although I think of it more in terms of 'ebb and flow.' There have been periods in the past when there were many really outstanding QB's playing at the same time; if, as you suggest, we are now entering a period where there are fewer, I honestly think that, some years hence (and no one can say how many), there will come another time when there are many.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by nat :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:32pm

I love it that Aaron included all the irrational thread links in once place. These are fun (and funny) times.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Karl Cuba :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 12:48pm

Manning, I'll put Brady in the top ten but Manning's in my top two.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by JIPanick :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 2:07pm

I'm curious about a couple things, Karl:
(1) At this point I've basically convinced myself that Manning has no peers, I'm curious who the other half of your top two is.
(2) As a 49er fan, do you think Montana or Young was the better quarterback?

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by commissionerleaf :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 5:59pm

To a Niner fan, I'd imagine that's the same question twice.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:12pm

I'll ask a nastier question.

In having Manning and Unitas, do Baltimore fans consider the Colts the luckiest franchise ever for QBs?

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Yakul_msp (not verified) :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:28pm

A listing of great Colts QBs always looks best when it includes the name John Elway and a large asterisk.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by tuluse :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:35pm

I think Starr, Favre, Rodgers puts the Packers ahead.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by JIPanick :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:55pm

I'd put both the Colts and the Niners ahead of the Packers, and I'd give serious consideration to the Cowboys being ahead of them too.

Disclaimer: I'm a fan of neither Baltimore nor of the Colts.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Karl Cuba :: Sat, 11/23/2013 - 11:35am

I have Montana and Manning at the top, Young makes it into my top six or seven though if you were only ranking peak performance he might be higher.

29
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Ryan D. :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 3:16pm

If alien-controlled Kurt Warner could have played for 15 years, where would he rank?

37
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by RickD :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 5:58pm

The physics of the universe required Bag Boy Kurt Warner to get the same number of snaps.

It's all about symmetry.

Luckily for his teams, Bag Boy never played in the Super Bowl.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Ryan D. :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:58am

I think "Bag Boy" Warner's play in those regular seasons was the main reason the teams he played for didn't have a chance to make it to the Super Bowl.

I think Manning is probably the best QB ever, while Brady is the most successful QB ever. But if I had to win one single game, and I knew I could get Alien-possessed Kurt Warner, I would take him every single time.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:06pm

It really was the Greatest Show on Turf. I don't know how much of it was Faulk, Holt, Bruce and the offensive line, but damn, I've seen Warner throw no-look passes, he was ridiculously accurate, even deep, and in his three year peak he was the best passer I've ever seen.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Go pats (not verified) :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 5:00pm

All I am going to say is Manning put up his mumbers playing in a nice cozy, perfect football environment under that dome or playing in Houston under the dome - most of his games have been played in perfect weather conditions while Brady plays in REAL football weather.

36
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Ben Stuplisberger :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 5:39pm

Peyton Manning was on SNL and was actually very funny. I don't know if Brady ever was, and please don't tell me, cause I don't want to know. Advantage, Manning.

47
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by dmstorm22 :: Sat, 11/23/2013 - 4:02am

Brady was, in 2005. Admittedly, that was a far leaner part of the show's run than when Manning was on (2007), but Manning was way, way better. Manning actually seems like a really competent comedic actor. Brady seemed like, well, an athlete on SNL

39
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by commissionerleaf :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:01pm

In Peyton Manning's rookie year, he led the NFL in attempts. With 575.

Can you folks all imagine what that was like? Someone has thrown for close to 700 four years running after this year.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Cro-Mags :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:20pm

My favorite part of Brady-Manning was Polian and his rule changes. I don't get the transparent conflict of interest in having an active GM on the competition committee.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Fri, 11/22/2013 - 6:54pm

I thought they were just a chance in emphasis, or something like that. Anyway, I think they benefited Brady as much as Manning (if not, perhaps, the Patriots as a team).

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Ryan D. :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:00am

The rules already existed, but were being blatantly ignored by defenders and officials. After the Patriots mauled the Colts receivers for 60 minutes in an AFC playoff game, the referees were reminded of the existence of the rule by the competition committee.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by PaddyPat :: Sat, 11/23/2013 - 6:30pm

My criticism of Manning in the earlier years was a tendency to be too greedy/aggressive in critical situations leading to more interceptions than Brady would throw. This has born out over the long haul of his career. Brady and Manning throw comparable touchdowns, Manning throws more picks. On the other hand, Manning has more production over the course of his career, which suggests that his team has leaned on him more heavily to win games for them than the Patriots have leaned on Brady. Manning has always had a better deep ball. Brady has a faster release and excels at the quick wide-receiver screen and a lot of the fast, short stuff. Manning has slightly better pocket presence, though it's close. Brady is much better at the QB sneak. Brady has arguably had the more talented teams, though Manning has often had a better supporting offensive cast (Wayne, Harrison, Clark, more marquee o-line)--Obviously, this shifted back and forth a lot over the years, including some very weak Colt years and now an exceedingly bloated Bronco one. Brady has played in more diverse offenses than Manning, including screen heavy, run heavy, reverse and trick play, two tight-end, empty backfield, etc.

I think it's just too complex to make a call. It would be more fair to argue that Manning has been the better quarterback based on raw number accomplishments, but the strengths and demands on the players have been so different that it's not a very good comparison.

Wait... I'm sorry... was that not irrational enough?

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:08am

I am sorry but I don't think there is a debate. I think if a P Manning clone were coming in the draft and T Brady clone were coming in the draft that anyone who tells you they would take T Brady clone is an idiot. Brady is excellent. Manning is likely the best ever. It is a world of difference.

I also feel like this debate is undersells Belichick a little bit.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by JIPanick :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 12:47pm

"anyone who tells you they would take T Brady clone is an idiot"

Or, alternately, they are an intelligent team that happens to have the second pick.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:14pm

Can we throw in a Ryan Leaf clone just for the heck of it?

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Jalepeno (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 2:32am

Glad to see this game settled that once and for all. Of course every New Englander knows that if you're looking for a real irrational argument it's gotta be Welker v Edelman.

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Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 3:53pm

You can look at the fancy numbers all you want, but only one QB led a game-winning drive in overtime last night.

61
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by Rhombus (not verified) :: Fri, 11/29/2013 - 4:26pm

On NFL Total Access, before the most recent Brady-Manning bowl, Marshall Faulk made an interesting point: what about another quarterback who never seems to be mentioned with these two greats, even though he won "all those Super Bowls in Pittsburgh"? No one talks about him with Brady and Manning, even though he has proven himself to be one of the best of all time due to all those Super Bowls he won.

I think the problem lies with anti-Steeler bias in the media. Or maybe the anti-rape culture that is force-fed to us by the media. Or the media's obsession with consistent results.

62
Re: Official Irrational Brady-Manning Thread V
by In_Belichick_We... :: Thu, 12/05/2013 - 9:18am

Or it could be his numbers that keep him out of the conversation:
Only twice has he eclipsed 4000 yards. Life time 1.8:1.0 TD to interception ratio.
He doesn't deserve to be in the same conversation as Brady, Manning, and Brees.
Brady: 5 seasons over 4000 yards, 3.69:1.0 TD:int.
Manning: 13 seasons over 4000 yards, 2.19 TD:int.
Brees: 7 seasons over 4000 yards, 2.04 TD:int.