Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

05 Jun 2009

Pick Five

Alright. Today's topic for discussion is a little trickier.

Using the USA Today Salary Database for offensive linemen, build the best offensive line you can for a cap value of under $4,500,000. Only one offensive lineman from each NFL team, so you can't just go and grab all the Ravens OL.

For me, I'll go with:

LT: Jared Gaither, Ravens ($412,346)
LG: Frank Omiyale, Panthers ($526,240)
C: Ryan Kalil, Panthers ($799,880)
RG: Harvey Dahl, Falcons ($450,400)
RT: Jeremy Trueblood, Bucs ($758,260)
Total: $2,947,126

Hey, just over $1.5 million left over! I'm gonna go retire.

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 05 Jun 2009

36 replies , Last at 08 Jun 2009, 8:46pm by Jimmy

1
Re: Pick Five
by BigCheese :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 12:13pm

Mine will come in a short while, but before you retire, you should look at the team that your LG and C come from.

Wait for it...

- Alvaro

2
Re: Pick Five
by deep64blue :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 12:18pm

lol

6
Re: Pick Five
by Bill Barnwell :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:00pm

Aw crap. I had Samson Satele at center for a while and then replaced him with Kalil. I'll do that instead.

10
Re: Pick Five
by Chip :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:28pm

Here's a hint (after typing seven letters into Google):

Omiyale signed a four-year deal worth as much as $14 million and he will collect $6.3 million of the $11.5 million base value this season.

11
Re: Pick Five
by Lou :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:41pm

also hes on the bears

31
Re: Pick Five
by Theo :: Sun, 06/07/2009 - 11:28am

wait, does he even play football?

3
Re: Pick Five
by Temo :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 12:31pm

I have to admit, I don't write for a football annual and I'm not hardcore enough to know 5 better low-paid OLineman than what you put out there. Shoot, of the guys you mentioned, I don't even know who Frank Omiyale is.

So lets substitute him with Kory Lichtensteiger, because he's got an awesome name. And Dan Orlovsky at C because I need to continue my meme.

14
Re: Pick Five
by tuluse :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 2:01pm

You wouldn't have any real reason to know who Omiyale is. He has started 1 game in his career.

The Bears did give him a 14 million dollar contract this offseason, so he must have shown something.

4
Re: Pick Five
by Bad Doctor :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 12:34pm

LT -- Marcus McNeill, Chargers ($755,440)
LG -- Nick Cole, Eagles ($450,774)
C -- Samson Satele, Raiders (well, Dolphins at the time) ($580,640)
RG -- Jahri Evans, Saints ($566,074)
RT -- Jeff Otah, Panthers ($1,278,750)

Uh, do we still like McNeill? :) Regardless, maybe I need more of a bruiser there what with all the other beef on this line ... just run the ball 70% of the time.

5
Re: Pick Five
by Fargo (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 12:45pm

Cool thread idea.

LT: Donald Penn, Buccaneers $450,280
LG: Daryn Colledge, Packers $775,760
C: Nick Mangold, Jets $1,450,500
RG: Jahri Evans, Saints $566,074
RT: Wille Colon, Steelers $546,220
Total: $3,788834

Not sure whether Omiyale counts as a mistake or not for Bill. He's signed with the Bears for this season, but we're using last year's salaries, so who knows.

7
Re: Pick Five
by Doug Farrar :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:12pm

LT: Sam Baker, Falcons (1,255,000)
LG: Rob Sims, Seahawks (547,180)
C: Jamey Richard, Colts (306,183)
RG: Davin Joseph, Buccaneers (1,495,760)
RT: Ray Willis, Seahawks (639,660)

For a grand total of $4,243,783, Pretty solid at left tackle, outstanding at right guard, and the other guys have shown a lot of potential. Richard took the best that Shaun Rogers had to offer last year, Sims was really good before hitting a bit of a sophomore slump, and Willis will manage to bull his way through some inevitable mistakes.

EDIT: And since I made the same mistake Bill did (D'oh!), I'll replace Sims with Daryn Colledge (775,760) which puts the line at $4,472,363.

32
Re: Pick Five
by lobolafcadio :: Mon, 06/08/2009 - 2:45am

Indeed, as with all the cheapest list, just choose second or third year who largely out-played their rookie contracts (second and third rounders are favorite for this kind of exercice.) :o)

8
Re: Pick Five
by Keith (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:24pm

LT, Tony Ugoh, $792,426
LG, Ike Ndukwe, $375,520
C, Ryan Kalil, $608,380
RG, Daryn Colledge, $775,760
RT, Ryan Clady, $1,713,000

9
Re: Pick Five
by Keith (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:24pm

This way I can run the Wildcat and have two pretty good LTs on the right and have a proven guy manning the left.

13
Re: Pick Five
by shake n bake :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:59pm

If Clady continues the tradition of the top young LTs sophomore slumping I might take it back, but even as a die hard Ugoh fan, I have to recommend flipping your tackles. Ugoh is a better run blocker than pass blocker, he's had serious pass pro lapses. I wouldn't feel comfortable with him at LT if the QB wasn't a guy like Peyton who can make his reads while being aware of his blindside.

15
Re: Pick Five
by Keith (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 2:14pm

I am for this move. I was going for mostly BPA, not necessarily position-based.

12
Re: Pick Five
by otherdonovan (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 1:50pm

clady (1.7) spitz (.636) mangold (1.4) jahri evans (.566) trueblood (.758) = 3.66

between clady, mangold, evans, top players at arguably the most important/impact positions on the line (LT, C, RG). btw, im under the understanding a rg is usually better than the lg, this fact/fiction?

anyway i got close to a cool mill left over and im pretty sure my line would whoop barnwells in adj yards.

19
Re: Pick Five
by Kibbles :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 4:45pm

I think more teams put their better guard on the left side, actually, but I don't think one position is more "valuable" than another. An advantage of putting your better guard on the left is that it further fortifies your QB's blind side, and it focuses your best blockers on one side so that you can be excellent at one thing rather than average at everything (which, in my mind, is a big key to success in the NFL).

34
Re: Pick Five
by VinnyM (not verified) :: Mon, 06/08/2009 - 10:22am

"clady (1.7) spitz (.636) mangold (1.4) jahri evans (.566) trueblood (.758) = 3.66"

Not even close....

16
Re: Pick Five
by Jimmy :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 2:53pm

LT- Joe Staley 1.255
LG- Ben Grubbs 1.255
C- Ryan Kalil .608
RG- Jahri Evans .566
RT- Jeff Otah 1.278

Total- 4.962

I don't know if Staley counts as a cheat or not, all the reports I have read about his new contract say that the guaranteed money comes after his current contract runs out leaving his existing cap figures where they are. Besides it seems to be based on last year's cap figures anyway.

Ruling from someone please.

17
Re: Pick Five
by Tom Gower :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 3:00pm

We're using 2008 salary info, so you're fine on that regard.

We're using a limit of $4.5M, so you're not fine on that regard.

28
Re: Pick Five
by Jimmy :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 10:03am

Well that will teach me to not read the instructions properly.

If I swap Otah out for Jared Gaither then I have

LT- Joe Staley
Lg- Ben Grubbs
C- Ryan Kalil
RG- Jahri Evans
RT- Jared Gaither

Total salary- 4.096

Its a good group. I also think it would make more sense for a GM to aim for this kind of group because of the lack of players who were rookies last year and would therefore have been a bit of a risk.

30
Re: Pick Five
by davepyne :: Sun, 06/07/2009 - 8:51am

Ben Grubbs and Jared Gaither are both Ravens.

See the instructions one more time

"Only one offensive lineman from each NFL team, so you can't just go and grab all the Ravens OL"

36
Re: Pick Five
by Jimmy :: Mon, 06/08/2009 - 8:46pm

OK then I'll swap Logan Mankins for Grubbs, he is .150 more.

It really isn't good that I have needed help to accomplish such a simple task. I guess I'll never be a GM. (goes and weeps in corner)

18
Re: Pick Five
by elhondo :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 3:30pm

I'd really like to see Al Davis do this excercise. It'd probably go something like:

1. Robert Gallery - 4.5M

And then he'd go take a nap.

20
Re: Pick Five
by MadCatPT (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 7:50pm

Or pick the players with the best 40.

21
Re: Pick Five
by Al Freakin Davis (not verified) :: Fri, 06/05/2009 - 10:09pm

Harris, Kwame

Year Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position
2008 Raiders $ 605,000 $ 2,395,000 $ 5,400 $ 3,005,400 $ 1,408,733 OL

23
Re: Pick Five
by c_f (not verified) :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 12:46am

Jonas Jennings - $5.8
Jeff Backus - $5.5
Al Johnson - $3.5

22
Re: Pick Five
by MJB (not verified) :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 12:27am

Here is my five:

LT - Tony Ugoh, Ind. Colts: $792,426
LG - Ben Grubbs, Bal. Ravens: $1,255,400
C - Lyle Sendlein, Ari. Cardinals: $382,010
RG - Jahri Evans, N.O. Saints: $566,074
RT - Jeff Otah, Car. Panthers: $1,278,750

For a total of $4,274,660.

Do I get any bonus points for picking the cheapest center who started all 16 games last year? And he made those starts for the Super Bowl runner ups to boot!

24
Re: Pick Five
by c_f (not verified) :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 1:12am

First, Barnwell is inconsistent- do we use cap numbers or just salaries? He uses Kalil's salary but Gaither's cap number.

Basically, you choose guys being underpaid by their rookie contracts, who will be (justifiably) asking for a much more expensive deal pretty soon. You can and should spend a bit more on a LT.

Tackles:
Anthony Collins - $412K
Jared Gaither - $412K
Donald Penn - $450K
Tyson Clabo - $450K
Ray Willis - $639K
Marcus McNeill - $755K
Jeremy Trueblood - $755K
Tony Ugoh - $792K

Plus you have Otah and Baker at 1.2 and Clady at 1.7

Guards
Carl Nicks - $334K
Ike Ndukwe - $375K
Harvey Dahl - $450K
Jeremy Zuttah - $473K
Jahri Evans - $566K
Daryn Colledge - $755K
Justin Blalock - $799K

More expensive options include Pollak, Sears and Amano at about 1 million

Centers
Ryan Kalil - $608K

Other but less efficient options include Mangold at 1.4, Sullivan at $319 or Richard at $306

One example: I could choose Kalil, Dahl, Evans, and Gaither, which puts me at 2.036 million. Then I could have Clady for 1.713, which is 3.75 million.

In long form:

LT - Ryan Clady (DEN) - 1.713
LG - Jahri Evans (NO) - .566
C - Ryan Kalil (CAR) - .608
RG - Harvey Dahl (ATL) - .450
RT - Jared Gaither (BAL) - .412

Total = $3.75 million

25
Re: Pick Five
by c_f (not verified) :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 1:20am

Oops, forgot about

Jason Spitz - $636K
Ryan Harris - $577K
Max Jean-Giles - $568K
Chris Kuper - $490K
Mike Brisiel - $378K

But outside of maybe the Denver guys, these are not as appealing.

26
Re: Pick Five
by Greg Trippiedi (not verified) :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 1:39am

Gaither is such a gimme. Best unknown secret in football, who won't stay unknown now that Peters' spot in the pro bowl is available.

LT-Gaither
LG-Josh Beekman
C-Nick Mangold
RG-Chris Kuper
RT-Eric Winston

I think this came out to %4.59 million, so I'll just cite a LTBE or something.

27
Re: Pick Five
by Fargo (not verified) :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 8:30am

Gaither was very good last year, but gave away a crapload of penalties. If he cut those mistakes out of his game, he'd be elite. I genuinely think Donald Penn was better, all things considered. And their cap numbers are pretty similar.

35
Re: Pick Five
by JimZipCode (not verified) :: Mon, 06/08/2009 - 12:39pm

>> Gaither was very good last year, but gave away a crapload of penalties.

12 penalties according to a poster on a Ravens discussion board; 4 of them holds. But that same poster said that Gaither cleaned up his act over the 2nd half of the season, with just 2 false starts over the last 9 games. Be nice if that carries-over into this season.

29
Re: Pick Five
by davepyne :: Sat, 06/06/2009 - 10:04am

Pos. Player Team Cap Value

LT Ugoh, Tony Colts $792,426.00
LG Colledge, Daryn Packers $775,760.00
C Mangold, Nick Jets $1,450,500.00
RG Jean-Gilles, Max Eagles $568,795.00
RT Trueblood, Jeremy Buccaneers $758,260.00

Total Cap Value
$4,345,741.00

33
Re: Pick Five
by Theo :: Mon, 06/08/2009 - 3:44am

In other news, the Browns decided to protect their inferior quarterbacks and who's that running backs with the following crowd, for a merely $ 30 something million dollars.

Thomas LT: $ 9,460,000
Steinbach LG: $ 9,266,666
Pontbriand C: $ 4,975,000
Tucker RG: $ 4,317,975
Shaffer RT: $ 5,016,041

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