Talk amongst yourselves
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
13 Jan 2012
San Francisco takes on New Orleans, and then it's Tebow Time in Foxboro!
Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 13 Jan 2012
163 replies , Last at
16 Jan 2012, 11:08am by
Holeee moses, what a hit. That's competing with Dumervil-on-Brady for hit of the year.
Hang on. I see Pereira on the graphics - was it illegal? Hardly defenseless from where I'm sitting?
Helmet to helmet is not always illegal? I really don't know at this point.
Pererira was discussing if he was down by forward progress (As the sideline ref signalled) before the fumble. The legality of the hit was not disputed.
I know... why wasn't it?
He was no longer a defenseless receiver, thus he could be hit in any particular way. Helmet to helmet hits are only illegal on a defenseless receiver and a qb.
That is the impression I got, thanks for the confirmation. Seems like there is no point in disallowing helmet to helmet hits in one context, then allowing in another. If they are serious about head injuries, helmet to helmet needs to be disallowed completely.
But when a runner is tackled, how do you decide who initiated the helmet-to-helmet contact? If you penalized the defender regardless, backs and receivers would start deliberately trying to headbutt people to pick up penalties.
No way a hit like that should be legal as it is dangerous for both players. Whitner led with his head--it is down, not blatantly, but down, and that should be a flag. Also, I believe there should be a rule that if a ballcarrier is obviously concussed (the way Thomas flopped on the ground like a corpse) there can be no fumble but the play is dead on contact. That would remove an incentive for head-hunting. Obviously it would have to be enforced on replay, from visual evidence, rather than whether the player stays on the ground after the play.
OK, who here had it 14-0 49ers after one?
I'm still going with unstoppable force over immovable object here.
Wonder how much part fumble recovery luck will play in the post-game discussions here?
How many players in NFL history have fumbled twice on the same play?
The GB punter a few weeks ago?
Ok, dumb question, but... Is anyone else flipping back & forth with the Incredible Dog Challenge on NBC? I just watched the Jack Russell Terrier beat a bunch of Border Collies in the weave poles, and am now wondering if there's a lesson to be learned in the NFL about that.
4th and 2. 49ers should not punt here.
49ers punt. Saints ball on their 39. Odds are it's going to be 17-14 in a few minutes.
Alarmingly similar to last weekend's Saints game. The Saints stop turning it over and pull away in the second half?
That'd be my guess. I just don't see how the Niners can mount enough offense, unless they get a few more turnovers. SF's defense is really stout, but that may be asking a heck of a lot.
It does feel as though the Saints are playing with fire, though. Even if they pull this out, which I think they will, if they have another sloppy game in the playoffs, it'll likely be their last.
Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for IRC playoff football chat! Point your favorite IRC client to bendenweyr.dyndns.org, channel #fo
Or for a web-based solution, just use this mibbit link: http://chat.mibbit.com/?channel=%23fo&server=bendenweyr.dyndns.org
Without the fumbles and the Saints putting some extra coverage on Davis (what they already did at the end of the half), expect a run heavy, receiver only football half from the Niners.
The Niners coaching will just wing it and hope that 3 more FGs is enough.
9 different Saints receivers caught balls in the first half. Wow.
Another Saints fumble. On the next punt/kickoff, they should put Sproles on the team bus--on the side of the bus farthest from the football.
Michael Crabtree, on the other hand, is single handedly (stone handedly?) stopping the 49ers offense.
I think we have another candidate for Burn This Play.
It looked like something big might have been on if the pitch back from Gore had been more accurate. The entire Saints defence had swarmed to the other side of the field - Smith would have had time for a shot downfield. Poor execution, not necessarily a bad call.
The two OPIs would qualify, too. Two in a row.
Great moment to check if these plays we've drawn up this afternoon at lunch are working.
Maybe defense still does matter in the NFL.
Justin Smith just went into Beast Mode
Great game so far and the anoucers have been fairly tolerable which is a pleasant surprise.
Also pleasant today - there haven't been ugly yellow flags all over the place. As I write that 49ers go 12-man on a potentially game-deciding 3rd-and-2.
Whoah. Smith is pretty fast.
Nice to see a 'bust' have a nice season like this.
Wow. Just wow. Alex Smith. That call has to be the Colbert award, right there!
Smith should have taken a knee at the 1.
I respectfully disagree. Still the two minute warning and a Saints timeout, means if you don't get the touchdown you're probably leaving the Saints around 0:40 to get into field goal range - even ignoring the chance of a missed/blocked field goal. It's not a lot of time, but it's still better to force them to get a TD.
When you're behind, take the touchdown any way you can get it.
I don't have time to do the maths right now, but . . .
Graham possibly should also have taken a knee at the 1, though I'm less sure of that.
NFL teams still manage the clock as if their defenses can be expected to stop two minute offenses. I think they may be living in the past.
Its not even that, they manage the clock like they can force a team to run out of time in the 2 minute.
Just play defense like normal. You're better off trying to stop them than run the clock out.
Inexplicable double post deleted.
I thought so at first, but actually the Saints had a TO and the 2 minute warning, so the FG would have been kicked with about 1:20 on the clock more than enough time for Brees to.... throw 5 TDS!!!!!!!!!!!
And besides, we would have been spared the end of perhaps the greatest 5 mins of playing time in the history of the sport.
FANTASTIC play call!
Don't bring a dagger to a fight with Vernon Davis.
No one covers Sproles going into the flat on that 2pt conversion?!
You got to be kidding me.
Could this game possibly be more exciting?
The third quarter will be skipped over in recaps, but after that, no, not really.
I'm stunned. Wow!
Holy Vernon Davis! I can't believe the 49ers responded with a 2 minute drill touchdown.
Un. Be. Lievable.
Wow. Sensational game.
What a game
Holy crap. What a finish.
At least four times in the 4th quarter, I was absolutely, positively convinced the Niners were going to blow it.
Check out the final couple minutes in this WP graph...
Since I live in the Bay Area, I have seen a bit of Alex Smith, and I had no idea
that he could do this.
I don't think anyone outside of Utah thought he could do that.
Wow. Hell of a game.
9ers win! Twice.
Irrational Smith-Rodgers thread!! Smith is undefeated in the playoffs!
So great playoff game, or greatest playoff game?
Only three touchdowns in the last two minutes? Yawn. That happens five times a week in Arena Football.
Meanwhile, in New England...Brady to Welker
Not sure why Hernandez cut back inside there, it looked like he had the safety beat, but whatever.
I think Dick LeBeau and Mike Williams have just illustrated why prevent defenses sometimes is a good alternative.
I think you mean Saints DC Gregg Williams--but whatever.
Its funny how that terrible Patriots defense just keeps forcing turnovers. Fluky, that.
... against Tim McButterfingers.
Seriously, they just showed a graphic that he has been sacked the most and
fumbled the most. I didn't know it was that bad.
He's a running QB. Running QBs fumble. A lot.
They're just unable to realize that a play is dead, and go down.
Running QB or not - it doesn't matter. Every QB fumbles when he gets blindsided and his throwing arm stripped as he starts his throwing motion...
A quarterback who doesn't think he can always escape has probably already gone down at that point.
The pocket had completely collapsed. There wasn't time to throw.
6 fumbles in the regular seasons.
Don't know what the difference is betweens a run stopped behind the LOS and a sack...
Also, on Bleacher Report, there's an article with FO stats abouthte worst players in the play offs... (can't find it, that site is horrible to navigate)... and "stats is for losers, he just wins" is a perfectly normal non-sarcastic response there.
Ah. Life on offense, and then the early fumble. This game could be over after first quarter.
I'm going to lose my mind seeing this endless array of 14-yard gains over the middle.
I'd be happy if that Tebow hype comes to an end now.
Seriously. I have never hoped for a Patriots victory in my life until now.
It probably won't help, though.
I've never rooted against anyone but the cowboys. Now this retard comes along and parody becomes reality.
What's the big deal? He's not the first player to be overhyped.
Me, I don't have anything against Tebow personally at all, I would let my daughter date him if I had one. But my Facebook page is filled with posts from ultra-religious friends who believe that God favors the Broncos because of him. I admit I will be meanly amused to watch the Dark Lord Belichick destroy the Broncos.
One does not simply scramble into Mordor.
It's not him.
It's the hype, the blind idolization that credits him for things he doesn't. I guess he's the man for his time and place.
Can't do it. This week, I'm a Tebowmaniac! Let Good triumph over Evil!
I don't know what the booth is watching. That ball didn't move at all....
(and apparantly the officials agree)
C'mon, Bill, pull the hood forward a bit more and let the hate flow through you.
Now that you mention it, I'd never noticed the resemblance between Brady and Anakin Skywalker before.
Thomas's honeymoon finished quick. Horrible 3rd down drop.
Hasn't he had a bunch of drops this year? I don't know, but that's the impression I had. That's why I was so surprised by his stepping up last week.
I have been watching this sport since the mid 60s-- and back then if you can believe it I lived in harrisburg, Pa and thus rooted against the Packers and for the Colts.
But that was the finest 5 minutes of football I have ever witnessed. My son was at the game rooting for the Niners, and as a Packer fan I went from sem-smug "we can beat either team" to a bit alarmed "Oh No, the Saints are going to actually win this despite 5 TOs" to "Holy Crap, did that just happen and since when did Alex Smith become Joe Montana"-- all in about ten minutes time.
Should the Packers win tomorrow-- and Lord knows-- it will be the "double chip on the shoulder" game-- Rodgers for the reasons we all know about, and Smith because of the 6 years of frustration and condemnation he has had to endure until he finally got his opportunity.
And Jim Harbaugh is one frickin' good coach, even if his offense didn't do a thing for about 50 minutes of that game.
It sure was exciting, but fine football? I dunno, I kind of like seeing defense.
I'm with you. Yes, it was fun, but . . . well, for one thing, most Texans games between 2007 and 2010 were a bit like that.
Wow, Beadles is dirty. Thats about the 5th time I've seen him jump on someone who is on the ground after the play is over.
Interesting, the Pats are playing some packages with what amounts to 3 DTs on the field Wilfork, Love and G. Warren.
The did that quite a bit in the last NE-DEN game. After the first quarter.
This is the sort of shit that FO would have pointed out 5 years ago. Now its just "Oh, the Patriots have terrible pass defense DVOA, so Tebow is going to throw for 500 yards over the top. Because the Patriots pass defense DVOA is terrible"
This is like the opposite strategy of Super Bowl vs the Eagles, when the Pats would have 5 linebackers in the game. Which makes sense, in a way, since this offense is pretty much the opposite of the Eagles.
How did the Pats defend the Wildcat in the rematch game in '08?
Also, the Patriots don't have 5 linebackers who are good. The strength of the defense is the line now.
Maybe it should have been about scoring Phil!
Nah why try to win when you can just try for moral victories?
Dagger. I'm going to bed.
Whhy?ast chance o see broncid in plahoffz. Raiders takingover west thid year. Strangle holding divisio next decade 1970s style.
I hope you're enjoying this, Raiderjoe.
Thoroughtl enjoying game
If game was sexy woman woukd be Rihanna. Would haoppily make love to thos game
Thought Raiderjoe would be more of a Cher fan (I couldn't think of any famous sexy female pirate singers).
RaiderJoe, I'da thunk you'd wait at least until your team hires a coach before you declare them a dynasty...don't you think coaches have something to do with results?
Beady looks really sharp.
Yeah, he's been doing this for 10 years now.
Not really. He is much better now, and frankly the game is more conducive to passing. On top of that he doesn't always look this sharp.
But sure make him out to be a god, that is easier than being accurate...
You know, one great thing about Tebow is you get to watch Wilfork rumble all over the field chasing him.
Belichick told Wilfork he can eat him if he catches him.
What's the over/under on when they break out the oxygen tank?
Wilfork uses diesel fuel, doesn't he?
I have to admit, I am far more sick of hearing a chorus of "Oh, Tebow's no good and I want him to lose so badly," than I am I of hearing, "Tebow's a great player and a good role model."
If he gets blown out tonight, the gasbags who thrive on watching fine people be brought low will gloat over his honest efforts all week. I hope they enjoy their smug satisfaction as much as Mr. Tebow enjoys his time in the spotlight.
I honestly believe that when 80% of people say "I hope Tebow loses" they really mean "I hope all the Tebow crazy fans have to eat crow". I doubt there is much actual animus towards someone who appears to be a decent individual.
I certainly don't go in for religion, but I bear him personally no ill will. I do find the people who think he will be a great QB comical, and the people who think he is already great because he is a "winner" infuriating.
But it has almost nothing to do with him personally.
That's partly right. A lot of it is people who don't care much about football, but are suddenly interested because of Tebow. And they think Tebow is the greatest player ever. It's like when Star Trek fans started invading SF conventions or Vanilla Ice became a big rap star.
What makes you think Tebow is "fine people", other than the gasbags who say he is?
As to "Tebow is no good and I want him to lose," I haven't heard anything like that. What I've heard a lot of is "He's not very good, so stop jamming him down our throats"
And how's the weather up there on that cross?
It's more the Bronco defense that's being blown out tonight.
Tebow isn't helping much but the 4th quarter hasn't started yet.
What's happened to the Denver pass rush? And why are they sitting back in a zone instead of pressing?
Tebjow time= diarrhea time
Raiderjoe just spelled diarrhea correctly.
My mind is blown.
Bud Light just ran their "You Make the Call" contest ad where you can guess what the first play of the fourth quarter will be. I choose "Patriots kneel-down."
I'm not sure about that. If Belichick can put up 70, I think he will.
This is like watching a game of Madden on TV.
What is the Vegas total points line going to be in the Patriots/Packers Super Bowl?
well, the Lions/Saints was 59, I believe, and the over blew it away in the 4th quarter. I would think if that is the game we get, something in the neighborhood of 62 or 63. And the over will still be the proper bet.
Who is #74 on the Pats? His dreadlocks are obscuring his name - he's been in the backfield the entire game.
Kyle Love. He usually plays Wilfork's backup.
Not Wilfork's back up this year, he's started 13 games ....
Is he normally this effective? He's just been bulling his way through the line all night. I suppose they all have, but he's been the most noticeable to me.
This is the most effective the whole defense has been this year, but Love has been a bright spot all year. With the 2 (sometimes three with Warren)fatties in on the line this year, it's had a different look.
I believe that's Kyle Love.
Is it really easier to post a question like "who is #74 on the Patriots" here than to check the roster on some web site like nfl.com?
FO have some very smart and decebt peoole so is good plac e to ask htings. So if giy here and unwilling/unable to open 2nd window then by all means ask away and someone nice will answer
Love me some Raiderjoe.
Broncos sustain a triple concussion recovering a fumble.
I think I counted with this last McGahee run, at least 3 running plays in which McCourty either took a horrible angle at the carrier or tackled with his hands around shoulder height (i.e.: poor tackling technique).
I knew he was playing bad this season, but this is ridiculous. Last season he was above-average. This season he's a disaster! Do you think he's injured or something? Because his hips look really stiff and is tackling really high, maybe he has a lower-back injury?
Really? A FG attempt?
Now it's only a five-possession game. It was before too, but this is better somehow.
Why field goal?
So this is what happens when "he just wins" plays versus "he just wins championships".
Why would the Pats even try the FG. Go for it, and score. Or go for it and leave it on their 1 yard line.
Need to get the kicker some practice doing something other than kicking balls out of the back of the end zone.
That was painful to watch. 0 for 4 three yards from the end zone.
This game looks an awful lot like the first game did after the Patriots changed to a 3-4.
This game looks an awful lot like a 13-3 team versus a 8-8 team game.
Free Brady Quinn!
man if the Pats managed to get Hernandez hurt giving him carries inside the 20 up a billion points I am going to be very grumpy tomorrow
A quick kick?!
You stay classy Denver.
What's the over/under for Denver's DVOA in this game?
Wait, so Patrick Chung is the son of former Patriot OL Eugene Chung?
Do not believe thay accurate. E. Chung big lineman turd..p. chung jamaican amerixan descent 17, qi years toungdr than e. Chug. No relation as far as know
As usual, Raiderjoe is correct.
And funny! Even if my RaiderJoe decoder ring isn't working perfectly tonoght.
"qi" supposed to be "18". Was acciddnteally on nunbers page when trying to type that. Switched happened when had to type a comma amd dkdnt switch back
secret to RJ's typos revealed: he comments from an iphone with no autocorrect?
Galaxy nexus. Also post dfrom home computer too
Well in this year of parity, the higher seeded team is now 6-0. The one clearly closest divisional mathcup produced an amazingly close and entertaining game, but also featured one team turning the ball over 5 times and still almost winning. Not saying the Niners don't deserve credit for forcing those turnovers, but the fact is that if NO is at all careful with the ball they win pretty handily. Maybe the Texans and Giants blow it all up tomorrow, but I doubt it. And I expect the two home teams to win next week as well. Once Pittsburgh got banged up the chance of another low seed winning like GB or the Giants did, or Arizona almost did, went right out the window.
And in this year of high powered offense, it was fascinating to see the one clear old school defensive team win with dramatic offense as their defense simply laid down when it mattered. That more than anything else that has happened in this postseason convinces me that Rodgers or Brady will be hoisting the trophy in three weeks. They aren't as sloppy as Brees-- and Brees is now gone.
How does Pittsburgh losing illustrate a lack of parity? They were a lower seed, yes, but they had a better record and were favored in that game even with all the injuries.
Re: Seeding. Welcome to the fun of small sample sizes. There's just no power here to try to infer how much seeding says about quality, how much is the effect of the home field, or how much is just chance.
The Ravens and Yates Texans are both pretty clearly defense-first teams, as that match-up amply demonstrated.
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties