Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

12 Jan 2014

Sunday Divisional Round Discussion

This thread is for discussing the Sunday Divisional round games, San Francisco at Carolina followed by San Diego at Denver.

Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 12 Jan 2014

206 replies , Last at 13 Jan 2014, 10:20am by WeaponX

1
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by AidenAsh. (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:26pm

Blandino has to go. Refs are garbage, and that is his fault.

2
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:29pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for playoff internet relay football chat!
Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

3
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:37pm

I never understand the passing rules. So it is ok to to run straight into a receiver within 5 yards and basically block him, but it's not ok to leave your arm in front of them and slow them half a step?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:41pm

If you hook him, that's holding.
Just like offensive linemen can't stop someone by having their arm around someone.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:51pm

I understand how it is called, I don't understand the rule. One of them is much more disruptive than the other. And the holding frequently will get called when it is just an arm across the path and little to know actual "holding". More like using you arm as a turnstile they have to run through.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by dbostedo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:11pm

Using your arms outside your body to impede someone is always called holding, even if there's no grabbing. You have to keep your body in front of the person you're blocking/impeding, and your hands inside your shoulders. (Of course, there's some gray area there, as there is with any holding call.)

Rule 8, Section 4, Article 6 of the rule book has the definition :

"Defensive Holding. It is defensive holding if a player grasps an eligible offensive player (or his jersey) with his hands, or extends an arm or arms to cut off or encircle him."

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:19pm

Yeah I know the rules I don't understand how they make sense.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by dbostedo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:25pm

I think it makes sense... reaching my arm out in front of you to impede you can be just as bad as grabbing your jersey. Turnstiles can be tough to push through sometimes, and reduces the impetus on the defender to move his feet and stay in position.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:35pm

And putting your shoulder into someone doesn't do this?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:00pm

Look: holding is always against the rules, and that includes wrapping an arm around an opponent. Chucking a player in the 5-yd zone is specifically allowed. This isn't that difficult.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:28pm

And you aren't reading what I wrote. I understand it is allowed, it doesn't make sense when you think about it. You know use your brain.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:26am

It doesn't take much thinking to understand why holding is disallowed, but blocking might be. I suggest using your brain instead.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by dbostedo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 11:21pm

I'm not sure what you're asking anymore. A defensive back is given 5 yards to essentially block the receiver all he wants. If he can put his shoulder into the receiver and knock him on his backside, that's prefectly legal.

It used to be that a DB could do that the whole way down the field, and it was up to the receiver to get away from him. They've changed this over the years to give the receiver more of an advantage, limiting to the first 5 yards.

Within that area, you can still impede the receiver, but it's treated like blocking - you can't tackle, grab, or reach.

If you're objecting to why you can hit them, but not grab or turnstile them (which is what I thought), then I think I've explained, and it makes sense to me.

If you're objecting to why DBs are allowed to hit the receivers at all, then you have to look at history, and not wanting to make it too easy on receivers. If they couldn't hit them, it would swing the advantage even more to the receiver than it already has, and the NFL is just looking for a balance.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by WeaponX (not verified) :: Mon, 01/13/2014 - 10:20am

It's hard for rules to make sense when they aren't always called. Offensive holding has to be the worst.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:20pm

Great explanation

Juv- since when do football rules have to make sense?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by B :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:45pm

Tolbert is the fire hydrant? Can anybody explain what this means?

6
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:47pm

He's a target for dogs everywhere?

8
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:53pm

I'm pretty sure it's a reference to his size/build.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:57pm

Have you ever tried to tackle a fire hydrant?
The things are short, strong and have a solid base.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:56pm

He's a couple of feet tall and made of red metal and if you crash your car into him water squirts up

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:00pm

Really? I thought that happens only when you crash a giant baby into one.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:02pm

Haha right, on a clear sunny day

9
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:53pm

Wow nice pass/catch, these guys are professionals.

10
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:54pm

4th and 1 was bound to fail eventually. But credit to Aikman and Buck for not criticizing the call. Panthers' next possession starts on the 31.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 2:58pm

"Riverboat Ron" has always been known for his wild gamblin' ways

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by dbostedo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:14pm

Go for it!!

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:15pm

I've always been a fan of Greg Olson, because I just loved him in Madden 08 from the start. (I moved him to fullback/second TE mostly)
He has always been hovering around the 50 catches for 500 yards and 5 TDs per season.
The last 2 years he has grown to 70 catches and 800 yards.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:15pm

Ugh such uncreative playcalling on the goal line, no wonder they're getting stuffed.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:18pm

Agreed.
As a friend just pointed out; you don't need a jumbo formation on a QB sneak (previously when they went for it).

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:16pm

Why doesn't he go for it now?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:19pm

It was 2 yards out instead of 1. Also, they don't think they have a play that will work.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by dbostedo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:20pm

Agreed... I'm a fan of the "even if you don't make it, they have to go 99.5 yards" mindset.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:24pm

Well their offense hasn't displayed any ability to get short yardage at the goaline. I think the play calling has been crap, but regardless it effects your decision tree. Plus they were a couple more yards out. I still would have went for it, but after several failed goal to go's I can see being sheepish.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:27pm

The FG here means the 49ers need a TD to retake the lead. Better than being up by only 1 if the attempt fails.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:20pm

"These are 2 of the top 3 scoring defenses meaning they don't get a lot of points against them"

I thought it means that they score the most points themselves?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Not Saying :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:25pm

No, it's how much they allow. The standard ranking of defenses is yards allowed per game, so the word scoring is to differentiate it from that.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:36pm

ah didn't know that

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by dbostedo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:25pm

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but "scoring defense" is usually used to indicate how much scoring you allow. But I have heard it used the other way on occasion as well, which is why I think the announcer explained.

I can't find an official definition for the NFL, but the NCAA football stats site lists defenses who gave up the least point if you select "Scoring Defense" on their stats page. (http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/28)

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:27pm

Technically it's a measure of which defenses want it more

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by EricL :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:29pm

And Boldin didn't get flagged for the exact same head butt, why?

33
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Rhys :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:31pm

That's the second personal foul call in SF's favor now (since the headbutt either is or is not a foul, and the early late hit was clearly wrong.)

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:32pm

Agreed on the headbutts, but I thought the unnecessary roughness call on Mitchell was the proper call. The pass had already clearly hit the ground and he lit up Davis.

I'm rooting for the Panthers in this game.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:33pm

Yeah, probably should have been called there. The 49ers have been trying to goad the Panthers into retaliation the entire half. Need to put an end to it.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:31pm

If you're going to call the head butt in the first quarter, you have to call that one too. The umpire was standing right there looking at it.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:39pm

Yeah the calls have been odd.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:31pm

I hope they've reached their hyperbole quotum with the "best catcher of all time" remark.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Not Saying :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:35pm

Seems like SF gets the homefield advantage with the refs. Not that the calls their way are wrong, just that they seem to be getting them where Carolina doesn't.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:40pm

Carolina has one of the worst homefield advantages of any team, which basically means the refs don't support them.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:38pm

That was a great catch by Davis, these teams seem a lot better than be ones from yesterday.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:41pm

It sort of looked to me like the receiver went out of bounds out the back of the endzone on that supposed touchdown. Is that not a penalty? Did he not step out? It sure looked like he did.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:45pm

I checked the replay, but I didn't see him step oob on the route.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:47pm

It would be, but I haven't been able to find a clear shot of it.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:53pm

Right after the play they had a shot with the camera straight behind Vernon Davis, I didn't see a foot oob.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:22pm

I was thinking he had too. Pretty annoyed they didn't show the whole replay playing attention to Boldin before the ball is thrown.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JimHarbaughactslikehes6 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:47pm

Maybe Danny will stop whining about officials now.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:52pm

Maybe, but then he'll still interpret this 3-point halftime edge as a massive lead that should have resulted in a blowout win.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:55pm

Skiing on NBC > halftime nitwits

I am gobsmacked that Joe Buck and Troy Aikman have ben the best announcing crew this weekend. Yesterday was just brutal.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:53pm

I thought the Panthers were running Cam more than usual, and a quick look at the stats bears that out. He already has 7 runs, which is his per game average for the season.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:56pm

Bleh, more bad reffing. So frustrating.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Rhys :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 3:56pm

12 men in the huddle too apparently. Awful game for the refs, they're looking like they got paid.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:08pm

Never attribute to malice what could be explained by incompetence.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:12pm

Cock-up before conspiracy.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Rhys :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:23pm

The general lack of consequences for poor reffing performance tends to make me believe in conspiracy more than I otherwise might.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:39pm

It leads me to believe that more than just the on-field officials are incompetent.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Pen :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:37pm

The officiating seems blatantly one sided to me too and I'm not rooting for either side. Panthers getting screwed.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:24pm

Geez are these the Carolina Panthers or the financial panthers?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:25pm

Of course it's rigged. If the Niners don't win today, that Beats by Dre commercial is a fail.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:37pm

49ers slowly strangling the life out of Carolina…

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:42pm

Okay, so now the Panthers need two touchdown drives. Even if they get the first one, I think it's likely they never get the ball back the way the 49ers are moving down the field.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:44pm

I was really surprised by the patters slow methodical drive in the third quarter. I am surprised more team don't have a hurry up look. When you are behind you really want make the game longer. Taking 8 minutes to go 40 yards is not smart. Possibly even counterproductive.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:50pm

Hey look a bad call going against the 49ers

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by EricL :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:53pm

You need a few of those to get more camera time with Harbaugh acting like a petulant child.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Whatev :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:23pm

I really liked Harbaugh's pirouette of rage.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:11pm

Next week his head will blow up as if Daryl Revok's standing next to him. Seattle's not a place to expect fair officiating for the road team, much less the kind the Niners got today.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:50pm

That is a terrible call.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:04pm

Why? Every other QB in the NFL gets that call.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Deelron :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:29pm

The next market efficiency, QBs with Merton Hanks type necks taking sacks on purpose but quickly moving their heads into defenders shoulders.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Rhys :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:52pm

Not sure it was physically possible for the Panthers to come back anyway considering how slow they play, but yeah that was awful.

69
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:53pm

Look, you don't have to agree with the rules, but the QB was running around in the backfield - he didn't tuck the ball or was not a runner in the open field.
So QB rules that you can't hit him in the head still apply as far as I know. I don't think the rules are off after a playfake or when he's rolling - or did I miss the memo?

121
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Kaelik (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:06pm

I think the idea is that it isn't a penalty on the defender when the quarterback slams his head into a defender's head. You know, because we don't want to encourage quarterbacks to hurt themselves and others just to get a free 15 yards.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:54pm

What are we supposed to watch now, for the hour until the Broncos game starts?

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:57pm

Twilight Zone episodes.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:42pm

I found the Sassoulo - AC Milan match to be quite entertaining.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:56pm

Massimiliano Allegri disagrees.

72
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:54pm

And once again the difference between an athletic guy that can throw and a real QB is shown in the playoffs.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 4:56pm

Yeah, that Colin Kaepernick character has no business in the NFL!

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:00pm

he's saying Kaep is the 'real' qb and Newton is just athletic who's asked to throw.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:03pm

Yeah, I got that.

Let me just say, I don't see it. Both looked like good QBs to me. I certainly don't think Kaepernick was significantly better than Newton.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:04pm

He'd have a better argument trying to claim Andrew Luck is the athletic guy who shouldn't be throwing.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:08pm

I think it's more accurate to say that the Panthers offensive playbook is a bit too simple, and they don't have enough playmakers on offense. They need someone like Boldin to make them better.

Hell, the 49ers looked like they were in trouble until they started getting the ball to Boldin rather than forcing it to Crabtree.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:21pm

Can anyone who's watched a lot of Panthers games say whether OC Mike Shula is always this bad? The narrative I see today is the Panthers offensive failures leaving their defense in increasingly bad situations.

106
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:40pm

It isn't a particularly dynamic offense, even at its best. In particular, the Panthers lack reliable receivers, especially when Steve Smith isn't fully healthy. Also lost in a lot of discussion on the Panthers offense: two of their opening-day starters on the offensive line -- right tackle Garry Williams and left guard Amini Silatolu -- are on injured reserve.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:03pm

Williams was actually at guard this year, but your point stands. Taking his place is a DT who they converted to guard after they drafted Short and Lotulelei.
Regarding recievers, even Smith is starting to decline, which can only be expected at his age.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:45pm

The big disappointment regarding Shula was the short yardage calls. He doesn't usually call consecutive runs right into the line of scrimmage, at least occasionally using a screen pass or play action.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:02pm

I'd argue that the difference in the performances by Newton and Kaepernick is due to the surrounding talent and coaching than differences in QB quality. Kaepernick threw several potential INTs this game that were dropped.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:20pm

One thing that stood out to me in this discussion is how frequently Carolina had two receivers in the same area on their patterns. It was really weird, and a sign of sloppy coaching. It can't be that that's what their routes were meant to do, so they obviously didn't practice much against the kind of checking-at-the-line chippiness that San Francisco brought. It seemed like poor offensive coaching. Otherwise, they seemed like very evenly matched teams to me.

91
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:21pm

Yep. Andy Lee's definitely no match for Colin Kaepernick.

83
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:07pm

Anyone who thinks that San Diego will win raise their hand!

103
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:38pm

What the hell. I'm not proud -- or tired.

79
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:03pm

The refs didn't end up influencing this one, luckily. Impressive game from the 49ers. A convincing, almost dominant win over one of the best teams in the league on the road means this has to be one of the best results of the season for any team outside of the Cardinals win in Seattle.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:05pm

I find it hard to call it anything close to dominant unless you want to totally dismiss the first thirty minutes.

The 49ers were somewhat fortunate to be up at halftime; they did dominate the second half, though.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:18pm

I suppose, but all told the 49ers were fantastic on offense against a great defense and solid on defense themselves. Admittedly the fact that Steve Smith was limited probably helped them a lot.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:22pm

Back-to-back goal-line stands really set the tone. That was just excruciating for Carolina.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:28pm

They weren't back-to-back, there was a quick touchdown on a pass to Steve Smith in between.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:08pm

Double post.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:10pm

Now to the game where winner actually has a chance to the super bowl....

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:13pm

Manning vs Brady will be the real superbowl.

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Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:24pm

The REAL Super Bowl takes place only in our hearts.

99
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JIPanick :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:33pm

...and the Ravens never win it!

105
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:39pm

Atria to pull the upset over Ventricles.

197
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonsilver :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 10:00pm

+2

87
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:11pm

And once again the difference between an athletic guy that can throw and a real QB is shown in the playoffs.

98
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:31pm

Didn't we already talk about this?

104
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JIPanick :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:38pm

Pretty sure I had this conversation yesterday with respect to Brees vs Wilson, and it didn't go so well for the "real QB".

107
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:40pm

I've yet to hear him explain why Aaron Rodgers is sitting at home now.

109
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JIPanick :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:43pm

Obviously Aaron Rodgers is an athletic guy who can throw, not a real QB.

113
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by B :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:50pm

Andrew Luck as well, I assume.

198
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonsilver :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 10:01pm

+3

97
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:30pm

If yesterday was the Saturday of Awful Announcing, is today going to be the Sunday of Crappy Coaching? As a Broncos fan, I'm hoping the answer is no.

102
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Rhys :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:37pm

It could also end up being the Sunday of REDACTED refereeing.

100
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:37pm

Den needs to set the tone early if they want to be successful. First quarter is key.

101
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JIPanick :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:37pm

Well, on the plus side it's a lot warmer indoors in Colorado Springs today than it was in the third deck a year ago.

Go Broncos!

108
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:41pm

It looks windy in Denver right now. Who does that favor?

110
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JIPanick :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:43pm

Defenses. So, probably San Diego.

112
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:46pm

Some say that Manning doesn't do well, relatively speaking, in the wind.

114
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:50pm

Big mistake with that facemask.

115
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:52pm

Pass rush looking good so far for Den.

116
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:56pm

Or maybe just DJ Fluker looks bad

119
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:00pm

And Rivers scramble ability...

132
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:44pm

That's a given.

117
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:58pm

So what exactly is the "rule" concerning pick plays?

118
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Not Saying :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 5:59pm

Blocking within a yard of the LOS is OK, based on a rule I saw yesterday.

131
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:44pm

This is exactly what I was looking for: http://www.milehighreport.com/mhr-film-study/2013/12/10/5195218/nfl-rule.... You're right about the 1 yard rule.

130
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:34pm

You are allowed to run your routes so defenders run into you or each other.
You can't block the defender, or stop to make him run into you.

122
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:08pm

I'm really impressed with Chris Clark, in pass protection he's been outstanding. Broncos have hardly missed Clady at all.

123
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:16pm

I'd second that but Manning makes it easier.

124
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:26pm

If that is a completion and fumble a lot of people are owed a lot of completions.

125
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by TimK :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:27pm

Apparently the Broncos lead the league in lost fumbles. That doesn't help.

127
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:28pm

Bad call, if it was a completion then he was already down.

126
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:27pm

WHAT? How is that possibly a completed pass?

129
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:32pm

I am dumbfounded as well.

133
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:46pm

It could have easily been called incomplete. Official's judgement.

134
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by morganja :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:48pm

Inexcusably atrocious one-sided officiating in the Panthers game once again benefiting the visiting team. The Panthers have the worst home-field advantage of any team in the NFL, an advantage which has been shown to be mostly due to officiating.
There really is no sense supporting the Panthers when the NFL treats their fans like this.

136
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:56pm

Get a real QB and stop crying about the officials.

141
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:07pm

Go learn how to be more objective when evaluating QB's, Luigi.

And if I were a Panther's fan, I'd be pretty pissed. Lots of judgment calls, and they almost all went against the Panthers.

142
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:09pm

I am objective, Newton has won nothing so far.

146
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:13pm

First of all that college title Newton collected is more championships than Kaep has 'won'. Secondly, football is a team game and judging a quarterback on the accomplishments of his team as a whole is stupid. If you don't understand that than this is not the site for you.

148
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:22pm

He's a troll, ignore him.

150
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:32pm

You're right, my mistake.

152
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:36pm

I welcome you to this discussion board.
Now, the fact that you say this says to me you have no idea what this site is about.
So pretty please, with sugar on top, read a little about the analysis here.
Until then: you're out of your element.

142
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:09pm

I am objective, Newton has won nothing so far.

142
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Luigi (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:09pm

I am objective, Newton has won nothing so far.

153
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:45pm

"There really is no sense supporting the Panthers when the NFL treats their fans like this."

I don't understand this sentiment. Are you saying it would be better to arbitrarily change teams or just stop watching the NFL?

187
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:03pm

I'm surprised you haven't found a way to blame Tom Brady for this yet.

Maybe the refs got confused and thought the 49ers were the Patriots?

135
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Anger...rising :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:53pm

Decker tripped and fell in the open field against the Chargers last year. Immediately preceded the pick six that put Denver down huge.

137
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:56pm

"Omaha" not "hike" number 55.

138
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:57pm

The chargers are getting hustled by Manning's hard count.

139
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 6:59pm

Did Ingram actually cross the LOS on that offsides call? Getting the impression the officials are letting Denver OL make the calls for them.

140
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by B :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:02pm

Wow. That was an incredible interception.

145
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Lrrr (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:11pm

Okay, I know Denver's offense is much better than Cincinnati's, but does anyone else feel like SD's defense is substantially worse this week than it was last week? Maybe it's just because I'm a Bengals fan, but their defense seemed mildly terrifying last week.

147
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by B :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:13pm

San Deigo's offense looks substantially worse this week, their defense, on the other hand, seems about the same. Say hi to Ndnd for me.

157
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Anger...rising :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:53pm

I think you're grafting your terror at the performance of your quarterback on to San Diego's defense. Cincinnati moved the ball last week when not handing it away on a platter.

151
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by spujr :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:32pm

Hell of a kick.

155
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:46pm

Thought Denver's front seven was their strength, but the secondary has been great today.

156
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by TimK :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:49pm

Lots of injuries in the secondary. I'm not surprised if the week off has made a real difference to this Broncos roster, they were really putting slightly hobbled players out a lot in the second half of the season to keep enough warm bodies out there.

Several injuries up front as well, Derek Wolfe is not back yet, but he is the only person on the roster (except those on IR) who is worse than probable on the Bronco injury list this week.

159
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by TimK :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:02pm

Then Chris Harris goes out, and his replacement (Jammer) is beaten for a TD.

154
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JimHarbaughactslikehes6 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:46pm

Hey Danny,

Did u see that?

Another bad call against the 49ers!

How can they beat the Broncos with this kind of officiating?

Ay Caramba!

Oh wait! Is that Jim Harbaugh going for it on fourth down? He's channelling his inner weasel Schiano.

158
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 7:57pm

Are you luigi?

163
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by JimHarbaughactslikehes6 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:11pm

Nope. Just someone who's disappointed that the NFC Championship game will be totally devoid of any class.

Jim and Pete are not the dudes I am happy to see succeed.

Congrats to their players who have done well anyway.

199
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 10:17pm

Must be a disgruntled Packers fan. They're the only ones who talk about class when they're not good enough to win on the field.

160
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:02pm

Come on Phillip.
Throw it in front of your guys. That pass to Woodhead was atrocious.

161
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:04pm

Here we go. San Diego comeback inevitable.

Denver has missed too many opportunities to put up more points this game, and it's going to cost them in the end.

162
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Cythammer :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:11pm

Unless one believes in momentum, there's still no reason to predict a Chargers win, even if their chances are bit better than they were.

164
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:15pm

Random question: why was Welker allowed to change the helmet he uses for this game? I thought the NFL instituted a rule requiring players to where one single helmet for the whole season (this is why the Buccaneers couldn't wear their old white-helmeted throwbacks).

166
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by DRohan :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:19pm

Weird. Is that a real rule? What happens if a helmet gets damaged? Don't understand the reason for it. Or how they could enforce it anyway.

168
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:21pm

I was told it was a real rule. I'm not sure, though, which is why I'm asking.

The reasoning behind it was explained that the helmets are fitted for players' heads, to help prevent concussions. So it's better to have one you "know" fits correctly, as opposed to several, which could lead to one being worse.

I assumed it gets waived if a helmet is damaged.

169
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:22pm

I thought the NFL instituted a rule requiring players to where one single helmet for the whole season

That cannot possibly be true, as it's possible for helmets to be damaged.

It's more likely, however, that teams could only use one helmet design for the season.

171
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:27pm

How I heard the rule, that's not part of it. In fact, several teams (the Bears were one) simply removed the decals from their helmets - keeping the same shells - as part of their throwback looks. The Rams, for example, simply used different decals (yellow instead of gold).

But again, I'm not 100% sure there is a "one helmet only" rule. Which is why I was asking, haha.

173
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:32pm

I've just checked with David Chao (former Chargers team physician). The league has a list of approved helmets and the team equipment manager will offer his players a selection, but the player is free to choose game-by-game as he wishes. Most prefer to stick to one helmet, but there's no requirement to do so.

174
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:32pm

Thank you very much for the information.

175
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:33pm

I've never heard of this and can't imagine this being true.
It's impossible to enforce (helmets also consist of different parts) and helmets damage, so it's not even safe.

Pretty sure you've misheard it or confusing it with another rule.

178
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by RedZone :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:42pm
180
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:43pm

Almost certainly. Good find.

179
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:42pm

Based on Andrew's explanation, it sounds like it was described to me improperly.

It was explained to me when the Buccaneers couldn't wear their white helmets. I'm now inferring that those helmets probably weren't on the approved list, so Tampa Bay had to cancel their throwback plans.

Sounds like the enforcement due to helmets having different parts isn't really an issue if the league is able to pre-approve equipment. They would just pre-approve fully-assembled helmets.

184
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:56pm

Why couldn't the Bucs simply find an approved white helmet?

185
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Eddo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:00pm

See the article RedZone linked above. The league "recommended" they don't use them.

Also, it could be that each individual helmet has to go through an approval process. So if they didn't acquire the white ones early enough, it could be logistically problematic.

190
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:10pm

Helmets can be styled however the team wants. That isn't the issue.

It appears that teams wearing throwback uniforms used to entail them also using older helmet designs. That's what the league mandated against: they required teams to use modern, approved helmet designs with throwback decals, instead of older helmet designs with the throwback decals.

193
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:29pm

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this isn't what the PFT article said.

Also, when the league makes a "recommendation," you best consider it part of the goddamn rulebook. Just ask the Redskins about "actual rules" vs. memos.

195
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:54pm

So I've done some more digging. Apparently a safety commission concluded that it's safer for players to wear the same fitted helmet throughout the season, so they don't want players using different helmets simply for aesthetics. It looks like if it's for a specific reason, such as Welker's, then that's fine but if it's just to go throwback that isn't okay.

This being the NFL, there's little public regarding the actual rule and the reasoning behind it.

165
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by B :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:16pm

Did Natz/Simms just imply that Tony Gonzalez owes his career to Antonio Gates?

170
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:23pm

I think Simms was tracing all basketball tightends to Gates and Nantz quietly inserted Gonzalez into the discussion to show Simms that he was wrong and Simms was so dense, he didn't miss a beat.

167
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:20pm

There is a lot of holding in this game by everyone.

172
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:27pm

Someone get Jammer a fire extinguisher...

206
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by NYMike :: Mon, 01/13/2014 - 11:57am

Wes Weller is apparently 206 feet tall, which is the only way that ball was catchable.

176
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by NYMike :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:33pm

The now famous double post, abd the first version was not all that insightful.

177
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by RikkiT (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:38pm

Fun fact: The last unsuccessful onside kick attempt in the NFL to date it was by the Dayton Triangles.

181
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:47pm

That Old Spice commercial is creepier every time I see it.

201
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by rengewnad (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 11:46pm

my 9 year old was sitting next to me and he just looked at me with a horrified look on his face, like WTF was that?

202
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by PaddyPat :: Mon, 01/13/2014 - 12:06am

So much better than the Will Ferrell 100 hairs of old spice arm pit commercial. This one actually makes you sit up in your chair. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhSisRkXuJY

182
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:49pm

I really hate seeing teams down by 7+ points kicking the ball away with 3 minutes left, especially against teams with good offenses, and not even questioning whether or not to onside.

There's a very real chance you're not getting it back.

183
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by RickD :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 8:53pm

Phil Simms thought this was an "easy decision". That might tell you all you need to know.

186
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:02pm

I can understand it - if you don't get the onside, they will kick a FG and you're behind 2 scores.

When you kick it deep, you can assume they're going to run, run, pass. They run on first to run the clock, you expect it, so you stop it. Same on second down.
Then on 3rd and long you just need to stop the pass you know is coming.
With 2 timeouts and the 2 minute warning, you have 3 of these series to stop them before you get the ball back with some clock remaining.

You know this is going to be the situation so your chances of stopping it is greatly improved.

You still need to stop them though, leaving receivers open 17 yards downfield is not the smart thing to do.

188
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by TimK :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:05pm

It is a little strange having made one onside kick already. Unless you have a really new wrinkle to the onside kick (which is hard with the rules on formations these days) you have as much chance of doing it each time as it isn't likely the opposition can significantly coach up their hands team in the short time available. But I guess there is a bit of subconscious "we've had our onside luck already today" feeling that stops coaches going for 2 in a row unless they really have no other option.

189
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:06pm

Either way, I think you need to aim for a three-and-out or a turnover. An opponent first down all-but-ends the game in either scenario.

If you kick, that means you're probably receiving a punt around your own 30-to-40-yard line.

If you onside kick and make it, you're in business.

If you onside and don't recover ... kickoffs are from the 35. Assuming the ball goes ten yards, a three-and-out places your opponent somewhere around the 50-40 yard line, meaning a 67 to 57-yard field goal attempt. I think Fox would have punted, getting the ball back to the Chargers somewhere between the 1- and 20-yard-line. Is the 20-yard difference worth the recovery chance? Absolutely, definitely yes.

191
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 01/12/2014 - 9:11pm

Yeah, I understand that, I just don't think the chances are very good when you're dealing with something like the Broncos offense, and even if you do stop them, you're getting the ball back with less time, and probably at your own 20.

As much as failing to recover the onside is an instant game over, so is giving up a first down.

204
Re: Sunday Divisional Round Discussion
by duh :: Mon, 01/13/2014 - 2:03am

Well, no matter what happens next week my prediction is the Super bowl theme from the media will be the young gun vs the old pro, although top of the line O vs top of the line D could give it a run for the money ...