Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

290
Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Marko :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:10pm

As I said above, even if the Tuck Rule applied, it wouldn't matter. It would have been an interception instead of a fumble recovery because the ball never hit the ground.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Dave :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:16pm

They should still adjust the scoresheet. Right now it's a fumble.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Q (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:12pm

I'd like to know why grabbing a hold of and tackling someone by their facemask is not a penalty

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:18pm

Saw that too, but since it was after the ball came loose (the hand that grabbed the mask got the ball first) should it have been a post change of possession penalty? 15 yards from the spot of the interception?

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by anon (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:20pm

No, it would have been first down Green Bay.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Anonymous Vegas Goon (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:19pm

Welcome to playoff football!

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:12pm

I blame Mason Crosby.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Theo :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:15pm

Rackers, the Cards kicker can sleep now.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by ammek :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:17pm

That was insane. Great game, though. Very reminiscent of last year's Pack: go behind early, mount a comeback, defense folds, QB has late turnover, lose. Pack now 0-8 in close games since the start of 2008. Troubling.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:20pm

Well, the D would've had to have shown up in the first place in order to fold right?

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Flounder :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:22pm

You're forgetting game 1 of this season

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by ammek :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:42pm

Using the admittedly highly selective and arbitrary cut-off of a 4-point game at the end of regulation.

Anyway, 1-8 isn't that much better. And it was versus the 2009 Bears. Could add the 08 opener vs Minnesota if fussy. The losses have all been against respectable teams, only one (08 Jags) worse than 8-8, and that was on the road.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by packerpalooza (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:52pm

ammek:

Everyone wants to pin it on Rodgers but I point to McCarthy. He abjectly refuses to run the ball when running is an option. He continually stresses his team by asking it to do that which is at the limits of its abilities.......

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by t.d. :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:18pm

Will Warner have the highest single game DYAR ever in the postseason? 5 TDs, 4 incompletions against a highly regarded defense. It was a great game, but Green Bay was oddly really helped out by an advantage in special teams, else Arizona would've won more easily.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by ammek :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:23pm

Warner was sensational. Great job of game-planning too. The Packer ILBs played up, leaving a big hole for those crossing routes and bunch formations. Warner detected and completed every one. They branched Fitz out wide, too, taking Woodson out of the centerfield. By the time the Packers adapted they had lost Bigby and that left Breaston in some nice one-on-ones. Just a great job by Whisenhunt, Warner, and the Card receivers.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Nobody (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:20pm

What don't you get??
IF the tuck rule was legit - everyone would be saying game decided by "interception" return. They're not. Official stats all say "fumble."

It DOES matter. Just wait until someone says "Oh, Yeah" and that miraculously becomes an interception sometime between now and tomorrow at 10 am.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Justin Zeth :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:25pm

That game was everything you need to know about Aaron Rodgers in one package.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Flounder :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:33pm

He was clearly nervous at the beginning of the game, and that first pass was just terrible. And he missed Jennings on the first play of OT for a sure 80 yard TD.

The last play I don't blame him too much for. They never showed the whole play again, but I think it must have been a delayed blitz. Adams took a long time to get there, and no one on GB had any clue. It was a really good call by the defensive coordinator.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by t.d. :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:35pm

I hope that isn't meant as a criticism. They would've beaten almost anyone with the game he played today. It's not his fault that the defense was exploited.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:45pm

Either way I think it's a fair statement. He played a great game but wasn't able to overcome the problems caused by the times he reverted to his Roethlisberger Jr. stuff.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Justin Zeth :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:05pm

You take the bad with the good. There's plenty of both.

But holy hell, what do you want from the guy, it's not on him that the Packers defense gave up 45 points.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:16pm

Dude I'm the biggest Rodgers fan you'll find, but I'm still not going to ignore/excuse what are obvious mistakes on his part. There's a difference between valid criticism and just piling on the guy, and I don't think acknowledging that he gave Arizona 14 of their points today while simultaneously praising the rest of his performance is out of line.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by packerpalooza (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:36pm

Sigh. If Rodgers hits Jennings in OT all else is superfluous.

Now we have to read about how AZ was "disrepected. And the gloating from AZ fans.

C'est la vie.....

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by jebmak :: Mon, 01/11/2010 - 1:50am

Don't worry, AZ doesn't have any fans.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Q (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:36pm

Yeah Rodgers choked on missing the pass to Jennings although in all fairness he was probably not expecting to be dragged to the ground by his facemask on the last play

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:42pm

Just saw another replay of the Rodgers fumble on NFL Network. Looks like Dansby wouldn't have been able to get it before it hit the ground if Rodgers didn't kick at it. Maybe the Tuck Rule is a little bit relevant here after all. Ah well.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by packerpalooza (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:45pm

Green is the same ref who missed the pass interference call in the SF/NY game on the missed field goal that the league office called the worst officiating blunder of the past twenty years.

Just sharing that fact.

For the record I pin this loss on the coaching staff who clearly did NOT think AZ would actually prepare for the game. Which is a disgrace.

Mike McCarthy can really bury the needle on stupid at times.

Of course, not as much as anyone who pins this loss on Rodgers. He contributed sure. But I think other areas share more of the blame.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by packerpalooza (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 9:49pm

Right now He Who Shall Not Be Named is snickering. As if he would have done any better.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by tonic889 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:03pm

The really need to change the overtime rules. It's simply not fair that half the time, the losing team never even touches the ball.......oh wait.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Marko :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:14pm

Good point. I always say to anyone who makes that argument, "Play some defense."

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by snik75 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:22pm

Well, just to vent a little, it does stink that the last two plays had an uncalled helmet-helmet hit on Rodgers (exactly the play the rule is trying to prevent) and an uncalled facemask. Not sure, if a penalty happens after loss of possession but before the other team regains it, is that before change of possession? And is that something that can be reviewed? In real time I didn't see it, but on a replay it was glaring.

That's not why the Packers lost the game, except that it is... still, they "responded to adversity" a heck of a lot better than the Pats did, it is hard to feel too bad about the loss. The secondary was just too thin to lose another player... ah well.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Paul R :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:26pm

I just watched the replay, and that was a pretty obvious facemask. I don't think there was an official in position to see it, though.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by ineedawittyname (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 10:33pm

I thought this game was poorly officiated overall, missing glaring calls both ways. On GB's first TD it really looked like Rodgers didn't cross the plain, and on their second scoring drive Finley got away with a huge push-off on a big play. Factor in Green Bays usual assortment of missed DPI and Illegal contact penalties and lots of holding both ways, and to say I was unimpressed with the refs would be an understatement.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by wr (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:08pm

I agree. The refs were horrible, but they were being equally horrible to both
teams.

Now, anyone think that an over/under line of 100 for AZ-NO would get any action?

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by jebmak :: Mon, 01/11/2010 - 1:56am

Whatever it is, take the under.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Alexander :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:16pm

The officiating in the entire playoffs has been comical. In the Jets-Bengals game there were 2 PI calls on Revis that should have been offensive PI. The officials couldn't do anything to fix the Boys-Eagles game, but there was a ludacris celebration penalty.

The Fitzgerald push off on the TD was pretty blatant as well, as was the roughing call (if a hit on the QB causes the throw to be a duck how the hell can it be roughing).

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:29pm

On the roughing call, there's the fact that the defender had a fist full of Warner's face mask (it was pretty much the identical situation to Adams on Rodgers in the final play, in fact). Of course, they didn't call "face mask," but a blow to the head on the QB always ends up drawing a flag. Nor let us forget that Williams had one of his classic arm bars in play during Breaston's one-handed catch on 'Zona's final TD drive. Frankly, the refs were leaving stuff uncalled all day on everybody (well, except Adams's PI calls, but those were absurdly obvious; the best reason to have him blitz the passer is to get the guy the heck out of pass coverage).

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:15pm

The facemask on the last play was missed because the official in position to see it instead followed the ball after it was knocked from Rodgers' hand. This is bad luck for the Packers, but that is what the official is trained to do on that sort of play; keep his eye on the ball, for obvious reasons.

Look, I don't mean to sell short what the qbs did (Warner much more so than Rodgers) or the several good catches made by the receivers, but that was a HORRIBLY played game by the defenses. Mostly mediocre pass rushing, awful, hideous tackling, and poor coverage performance. Toss is some awful special teams play, and it was a game for the Don Coryell in all of us, not the Chuck Noll.

Gee, ya' think Sean Payton and Drew Brees might have some inkling about who to pick on in the Cardinals secondary next Saturday?

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:28pm

Yeah, I'm really disappointed with GB's defensive approach. The guy is obviously to be commended for what he's done for the D overall, especially given the first year in a 3-4, but I'm scratching my head seeing Capers expect the strategy from FavreBowls I & II to work better with the GB secondary in significantly worse shape. Why do these coaches insist on going all-coverage when they don't have the players to pull it off? Yeah, yeah, "you can't blitz Warner," blah blah. Whatever. Get up in his face and he's just as human as any other QB. It's not like not blitzing him was all that effective.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:43pm

I mean, by the last quarter of the game it was glaringly obvious that Warner was going to sit back and pick apart the coverage. The Packers couldn't protect the middle of the field at any point all day, how could a heavy blitz have been any worse? It'd be a change in strategy that could potentially catch the cards off guard for a series or two, it'd increase the likelihood of a turnover, and last time I checked getting burned for a long play against the blitz doesn't give the other team anymore points than when it happens against zone. What am I missing?

Ehh whatever. Obviously it's all so simple, which is why I'm sitting on a couch rather than coaching in the NFL.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:48pm

I tend to agree, if, for no other reason, it may allow you hit Warner once and a while, even if he is completing a big pass in the process. How many times did the Cards punt? Once?

Of course, when you are tackling like middle schoolers, pretty much everything fails anyways.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by chris303 (not verified) :: Sun, 01/10/2010 - 11:52pm

Facemask or not, the last play WAS a foul. The NFL rules:

Section 2 Personal Fouls
Article 1 All players are prohibited from:
( a) striking with the fists;
( b) kicking or kneeing; or... See More
(c) striking, swinging, or clubbing to the head, neck, or face with the heel, back, or side of the
hand, wrist, arm, elbow, or clasped hands. See 12-2-3.

Note 1: If in doubt about a roughness call or potentially dangerous tactic on the quarterback, the
Referee should always call roughing the passer

It is clearcut

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Sifter :: Mon, 01/11/2010 - 12:21am

Correct. But it's in the scorebook now...

And for those criticising the non-blitzing of Warner, watch the 49ers-Cards game from a few weeks back. And I'm pretty sure Gruden and Jaws mentioned specifically in that game that teams were dropping 8-9 guys into coverage v Warne and that was slowing him down a lot. So you can't say it was a bad strategy - at least to start with anyway. The adjustments were awful, bad that's another issue.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by johnny walker (not verified) :: Mon, 01/11/2010 - 1:51am

I don't have a problem with starting the game out that way, it's the choice to stick with it even though it wasn't working that bothered me. Just mix it up a little bit, try something else and see what happens. The D really couldn't have played much worse than it did, and it thrives on turnovers. At that point I'd see if I could force one.

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Re: Sunday Wild Card Discussion
by Singh (not verified) :: Mon, 01/11/2010 - 12:38am

Perhaps someday the NFL will aim two cameras at each player (four on quarterbacks), and review each action of each play. The time spent will lead to the glory of unimpeachable accuracy, which, let's face it, is why we watch the game.

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