Talk amongst yourselves
7/29: KC IDP, STL RB
7/27: ARI TE, various IDP updates.
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03 Feb 2013
Here's the thread for in-game discussion of Super Bowl XLVII between the Baltimore Ravens and the San Francisco 49ers.
Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 03 Feb 2013
115 replies , Last at
05 Feb 2013, 11:28pm by
Guys I'm planning on going to bed and setting an alarm - I wont be able to stay awake, I think. When will the game start? nfl.com says 6:30, but when will it ACTUALLY start - I plan on sleeping through the national anthem and so on.
Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for superbowl football chat!
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The games hasn't started yet, and already Bulger is confusing.
Don't sweat it. Boger is confusing. =D
Wow. Queit in here...
Phil Simms is a Cretin.
Looking good for the Ravens - second turnover!
How was Cary Williams not ejected for shoving the official just then?
All I can think of is that it's the Super Bowl. Nobody's going to be ejected unless there really is no other option.
Well that, or the referee's bad. Take your pick.
Just like it appears they're not calling holding, illegal contact downfield, or pass interference.
That just means it's a playoff game though, doesn't it?
OK, when do we see Alex Smith?
You think CK should be benched for throwing a pick?
I'd consider it if CK comes out in the second half and still looks awful after a possession or two...
After two possessions may be too late at this rate. You'd be looking at being down probably three scores, with maybe three possessions left.
That decision needs to be made at halftime based on how Kaepernick is during the interval. I don't see Harbaugh pulling him - if he gets it together he's still a more dangerous player than Smith. Smith's not the quarterback you want trying to bring you back from a deficit like this.
Although Smith probably should have been called for interference, he did a good job of changing his role to defender and preventing the interception. Too many wide receivers fail to do this.
So far, although the turnovers have skewed things, the Ravens have looked like the superior time.
By good job changing his role to defender, you mean tackling the defensive back, right?
Why do supposedly great defenses leave Ravens' receivers wide open downfield?
I'm totally baffled here.
Nice move by Jacoby Jones.
...as I was saying...
"time," of course, was supposed to be "team"
I do not understand when I see NFL defenders hurdle receivers who are on the ground instead of touching them down. What are you doing? Your entire job at that point is to hit him!
And get a unessecary roughness flag - that's got to be what's holding them back.
All he needs to do is slide into him, or even run forward and trip over him. There shouldn't be any risk of getting flagged at all.
My "excluding the middle" pick is looking good. By which I mean, since so many pundits were hedging their bets by picking a victory by one or the other teams by less than 4 points, I decided to take "big victory by somebody."
I wonder if any of the sports books would offer a bet like that. An over/under on margin of victory. Most Super Bowls haven't been close, though there have been more close games in recent years.
So far Kapernick is really playing poorly, and the BAL offense is playing really well. Hard to know how much of that to blame on the defenses.
And the Ravens' special teams shows up for the Super Bowl!
it just got a whole lot harder.
Have there ever been two such horrific opening plays by a team in the same playoff game?? Lining up in an illegal formation on the first play of the game, and then allowing a back-breaking 109 yard kickoff return?? One Hrbaugh had his team ready to play, the other obviously didn't.
Tough to tackle the returner when the other team has you in a bear hug.
Kapernick was Vegas for three months-- tonight he's Reno... This game is also pretty damning for GB and its receivers/QB and particularly play-callers-- they wouldn't/couldn't go deep-- Flacco has done it with impunity.
"Good no throw by Kaepernick."
So now QBs are praised for simply failing to do something? Good job not throwing an interception!
(Who turned off the lights?)
WTF is going on???? Lights go out??? No CBS mike??? This game has entered the realm of the bizarre....
One could say the Ravens have been turning out the Niner lights all night......
well a good, but hardly great Raven team is about to turn the lights out on 3 of the greatest teams in the last 23 years, at least according to DVOA..... :) Poor New Orleans-- or maybe it's some angry bettors on SF
I always feel like when things like this happen there has to be a nonzero chance that they simply won't be able to get the back on. Which would be awesome.
Ah well. If it stays like this it goes to a replay, right?
They will finish this game today.
I'm wondering who will be hurt by the delay. On the one hand, the 49ers can use the time to regroup and reclaim their psyche. On the other hand, the Ravens are the older team and could use the rest a lot more.
There is a 99.5% chance it doesn't matter.
That was tongue in cheek, just to be clear.
They've just come out of halftime. I'd imagine there's a great worry about stiffness and tightening up than about getting your veterans rested.
It did inspire me to try to find out what the NFL rules were regarding delays. But the Google search sends me into explanations of the delay of game penalty.
CBS will probably be hurt the most by this delay. The sound you're hearing is the thousands of clicks by casual viewers switching the channel.
The combination of the delay and the 22-point lead just might lead a good number of people to leave the game. I wonder...ordinarily I would think the Super Bowl would be bulletproof.
German TV is interviewing the Azteca TV girl. I'll stay awake a couple of minutes more.
Using this post to ask, has something like this ever occurred at a World Cup or Olympics?
I'm reminded of the earthquake during the '89 World Series and, sadly, the terrorists in Munich in '72.
If I recall correctly, Brundage didn't let 11 dead Israelis slow things down much.
Brundage was a quality human being -- famous for '72 and for hating Jim Thorpe.
I'm going to say that Steve Tasker flipped a switch somewhere so he can get more air time. Sneaky Bill!
For a second I thought Steve Tasker thought he was Al Haig.
Kids today might not get the reference.
It's ludicrous to think that Alex Smith can manage a 3-TD comeback better than Kaepernick could. A QB switch would be an act of desperation.
And the wives of America say in unison, "Forget TIVO, we're watching Downton Abbey live!"
I dual cast and this caught the greatest Maggie Smith/Dowager Countess line ever-- referring to the former Downton servant Ethel who left the Abbey, had an illegitimate child and since turned to prostitution but has been "saved" by Mrs Crawley and has just cooked (with Mrs. Patmore's surreptitious help) a "get better lunch" for the grieving women after Sybil's death. As Robert marches into Mrs. Crawley's home to raise a ruckus over this horrible turn of events and inform the ladies of Ethel's previous means of income, the poor woman comes back into the dining room holding dessert, at which point the DC says "Well she seems to have a costume for all her activities"....
Somewhere in that stadium is an electrical engineer who will never ever be OK again...
I'm not a big fan of Ray Lewis, but I do like the way it looks like he has a bionic arm.
Good to see Bernard Pollard screwing up for the TD, going for the big hit instead of just tackling the receiver.
Every time I see either of the Harbaughs ranting on the sideline I get this overwhelming desire to demand cake.
Uh oh. It's falling apart.
Bryant McKinnie, ladies and gentlemen.
Holy smokes! Now THAT's blocking!
The power outage has really ruined this game.
Or the 49'ers came back on their own and the power thing was meaningless.
Maybe if you're a Ravens fan. As a neutral fan, after the wait (great time for a bathroom break, check some email, eat a few more cookies), I am glad to see a closer game. Might be a game worth watching in Q4.
It killed the flow of activity. A football game is intended to be played in a certain amount of time.
At the very least, it has seriously affected how the game has been played. "Killed" is probably too strong.
Edit: and no, I'm not a Ravens' fan.
San Francisco's equipment manager will be picking pieces of Jacoby Jones out of Delanie Walker's helmet for weeks.
I wasn't paying attention - why did the 49ers go for two with 10 minutes left? If the Ravens get another TD, they'll be down two scores with little time left.
Converting would have tied the game.
The knew the Ravens wouldn't get another TD.
If the Ravens scored another toughdown, the 49ers were pretty much fucked anyways.
I wonder if 49ers fans are going to spend years hating on Vernon Davis the way so many Pats' fans hate on Wes Welker.
FG and onside kick? Or 4th and long?
Jim Harbaugh wants a holding call on the biggest play of the day?
Does he not know what league this is? Has he been watching this game today?
It would have been a tough catch to get inbounds even had Davis gotten a hand on it.
Yes, CK was hit as he released the ball.
I'm sure his brother wanted illegal hands to the face, too. Neither got the call.
Should the hit by Jimmy Smith on Crabtree on 3rd and goal have warranted a penalty?
The NFL is not going to have a Super Bowl decided by somebody throwing a flag.
Not unless something really obvious and egregious happens.
(Go back and look at how egregiously Richard Seymour was being held on the famous Helmet Catch five years ago.)
"The NFL is not going to have a Super Bowl decided by somebody throwing a flag"
The problem is, every superbowl is decided by guys breaking rules and not being flagged. Its being decided by the absence of flags.
There shouldn't be different rules in the playoffs.
Oh, I agree completely.
But the officials decided early today that were not going to throw many flags.
intentional safety wins the game here, yes?
Well done, sir!
Simms: I would not take a safety here.
Baltimore takes an intentional safety.
Simms: Good call, well executed.
That is all
Admittedly, you usually don't get to run 7 seconds off the clock when punting from ones own end-zone.
I admired how the Baltimore linemen were clearly instructed to hold like hell. Now *that* is good coaching.
Phil Simms used to be a complete mystery to me -- how can someone so 'cretinous' hold the #1 color job for so many years?
During this game, I finally finally figured it out. The network loves Simms because he takes both sides of every decision. The average fan must filter out what they don't want to hear and assume that Simms is on their side.
Another example with the fourth down play where Simms effectively said: "Great no-call by the officials, but you can see the holding right there."
Funny how the last few Super Bowls have ended with strange strategic scoring decisions: Letting opposing runners score, runners trying not to score, kickers voluntarily taking safeties...
I think it is the most visible product of thinking in unusual ways but with the end goal being to win, as opposed to doing what is expected. The traditionalist football of the last century is dead, or is dead for teams that win. Those teams occasionally try the unusual -- going for it on forth instead of punting on the opposite side of the field, fake FG attempts, surprise on-side kicks, etc. We've seen all of those in recent years as well.
Agreed. Also, the games have been much closer, decided by one score at the last minute, which requires coaches to use every last trick in their bag.
You wouldn't find Norv Turner trying such unusual tricks which is, perhaps, the point.
Goodell: "Here's your trophy. Now I'm getting the hell out of New Orleans!"
As a 49ers fan I'm hardly unbiased here but I felt the referring in the game was terrible. Boger really should be fired for it in my opinion.
There were a lot of bad no-calls particularly on the Ravens let free (but the niners got away with a few too I will say). In particular the scrum - pushing a Ref and punching a player on the ground intentionally and clearly in view not illiciting anything more then 'offsetting penalties' is a disgrace.
The end of game no-calls were really irritating no doubt as well.
Also Phil Simms should be killed along with any relative to him in the name of Darwinism.
I had a (casual) rooting interest in the Ravens, but I agree strongly. I don't think the Niners got screwed on more calls, necessarily, but the high leverage calls all went to Baltimore and some were very bad.
It was not a well reffed game, but the Superbowl rarely is, so it doesn't really matter that they picked a substandard ref this time.
I agree that both those scrum calls should have been called. If so, though, the 49ers player that ripped off williams helmet when he was held down in the pile should be ejected. The lack of calls in the scrum was a "If we call this right, we lose multiple players on both sides...fuck it, offsetting" call.
Flacco as MVP, his agent must be drooling like Pavlov's dog.
Long drive home in the minivan tonight.
"It was pass intereference!"
"Defensive holding, then!"
"Was not! It wasn't even a catchable ball."
"Jim and John, if I hear one more word out of either of you, I'll tell your father to pull over right here!"
Anyone tackling the final timeout decision by Harbaugh yet?? I think it was incredibly stupid. Is 3rd and 10 near the goal line that much worse than 3rd and 5, when you aren't going to run anyway except with your QB and it opens up space for both he and his receivers to be 5 yards back?? Obviously Kapernick made the bigger mistake in not getting the snap off but Harbaugh should not have wasted the time out. And the upshot is that you don't get another chance-- as it was a 3 and out and they get the ball back at midfield or better (Baltimore would not have taken a safety with 50+ seconds left on clock) with 45 seconds or so and a reasonable chance to win-- probably at least 20-25%.
I think the 5 yards were worth more in improving the chance of succeeding NOW than the 40 seconds would have been in event of failure to score. Especially since the Ravens likely wouldn't have turtled so hard if the TO was still there, and a first down was very likely in that event IMO.
love to see the stats on that. Baltimore was not allowing Gore to score up the middle from the 5, so they were pretty much left to a Kaepernick rollout or fade pattern or scramble-- I've got to believe 3rd and 10 would only been a tad worse chance to score than 3rd and 5 given 25% more space opening up....
and the Ravens would have allowed an 5-7 yd out to Crabtree-- exactly what SF tried-- on 3rd and 10, thus giving them a 4th and 3-5 anyway....
Historically: 9-28 in 3rd or 4th and goal from >5 yards, and 20-50 in 3rd or 4th and goal and 5 or fewer.
That's not a huge difference in success rate, but what's markedly different is play selection. It's 82% passes from 5+, and 40% passes from 5 or less.
Basically, in a 3rd and a lot situation, the defense knows you're passing. There's utility in the increased play call variety in short goal situations.
Non-SB, it's 41-45% for TD-1stD in short goal, and 22% for both in long goal.
You don't know you're going to get the ball back though. The Ravens were running pretty effectively. Also I think the difference between five yards and ten is pretty significant. Down by 5 and inside the 10, the 49ers needed to go for the win right there. Whatever chance they'd have after a punt would be miniscule in comparison. So do everything you can to maximize your chances, such as taking the timeout.
All I'm arguing is that I don't think 3rd and 10-- at the goal line-- is all that much worse than 3rd and 5..... given the defense and the potential play-calling..... Whereas the difference between 0 chance after failing and 20-25?? is significant.... And I don;t think Baltimore is more than a tiny bit more likely to make the first down without the second timeout... They are not risking an incompletion inside their own ten, so SF stops the run pretty easily...
I suspect 3rd and 10 is a lot worse than 3rd and 5. In general, it's a lot easier to get 5 yards than 10. The fact that there is more space to throw into is counter-balanced by the fact that a lot of that space is worthless (unless you have Ray Rice against the Chargers). If you want to hit a spot in the end zone, you want to be 5 yards closer to that spot, don't you?
The Ravens were able to hold on the intentional safety without any consequences, since the penalty for holding in the end zone is a safety anyway. That bought a few more seconds of time for the punter. I wonder if there's a rule change that would deal with that situation.
Yeah except they didn't even throw the penalty on that.
The officiating was horrendous in this game. I counted 5 holds, two clips, and at least two PI/holding/illegal contact calls not made.
Horrible officiating IMO.
I was wondering why there wasn't more holding. There's no negative, as more time ticks off the clock in any case. Until you get to an "unfair act", it's worth it to be as illegal as possible.
They didn't call holding all game long. They weren't going to start on an intentional safety with 6 seconds left in the game.
There is always holding in the NFL. The refs let the players know in the first quarter how much holding they are going to allow. If they want to throw a flag, there's ample opportunity to do so. If they've allowed holding to go unwhistled for 59 minutes and 50 seconds, that's a pretty clear sign that it won't be called in the last 10 seconds either.
My point was that in that situation, it completely does not matter whether they call it or not. They were trying for a safety anyway! But holding does let you run more time off the clock.
That was a sneaky heads-up play.
Yeah, but the Baltimore "blockers" were tackling the rushers. They clearly were coached to do so, as several of them were doing it, and yet the announcers said: "The 49ers are slow to react -- they didn't expect Baltimore to take the safety."
Actually, the 49ers reacted just fine, but the Baltimore blockers were tackling them. They have to make some sort of rule change to account for that. If you tackle enough rushers, you could take out 15-20 seconds with a fairly swift guy handling the ball and a bit of room to run. Imagine: Denver's leading by 4, on their own 20, with 30 seconds left. They line up to punt, but instead have little Trindon Holliday, he of the 10.07 100 speed, take the snaps and run for his life back there while every Bronco player tackles and opponent, and it's Holliday, about 2-3 tacklers, and 20 seconds. He runs into the end zone, dodges a few guys while 10 teammates tackle, and game ends.
Likely to be lost (or at least pushed to the back burner) in all the debate over whether defensive holding should've been called on that 4th down is how incredibly bad the playcalling was on those final three plays. How do you not run Kaepernick at least once there? And how does Kaepernick not know where the play clock is at in that situation.
By formation, though, the Ravens were daring SF to pass. In compressed space, where DBs can play off man while still spying the QB, it would have been hard to run it in.
Now, oddly enough, a Tebow jump pass probably would have worked.
Obviously venturing into mind-reading here, but I don't think Kaepernick had his head in the game.
He made some brilliant plays. After the ball was snapped, he was great. But he seemed to falter between the plays and lose track of the cerebral aspects of quarterbacking: Awareness of the clock, game situation, reading the defense...It's hard to recall specific incidents, but I got the feeling sometimes that he wasn't leading the team. He just seemed to have a deer-inthe-headlights look about him.
Even Phil Simms mentioned putting in Alex Smith once or twice. Simms is a goofball, but he's also a quarterback, and I wonder if he noticed something in CK's body language that a fellow quarterback would recognize.
He's a rookie.
I doubt the issue was "not having his head in the game". Its probably "not being very good at that aspect of the game"
He's not a rookie.
But yes, inexperience probably has a lot to do with it.
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