Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

08 Sep 2013

Week 1 Open Discussion Thread

(Places Giant Joe Flacco billboard in the middle of every post.)

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 08 Sep 2013

245 replies , Last at 10 Sep 2013, 1:53am by DEW

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Waverly :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 5:44pm

So how many of those Flacco billboards are up in the Denver area?

2
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 8:23pm

Watching the pregame show, it's come to my attention that the Ravens and Broncos in fact played each other in last year's playoffs.

Also, I am now reminded of why I never watch pregame shows.

3
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 8:46pm

Yeah, I could have done without the Keith Urban concert. Maybe that stuff appeals to some casual fans and non-fans, but I don't know anyone who watches a pregame or a halftime show because of some stupid mini-concert. What a waste of time.

Also, somewhere Ray Lewis presumably is claiming that this delay is a conspiracy against the Ravens.

4
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 8:48pm

This broadcast is off to a great start

Anyway, be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of real time football chat! Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

5
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by roguerouge :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 8:49pm

It's the final countdown! To an indefinite weather delay. Well doneproducers.

6
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 9:03pm

I came here to make this joke. Well done good sir

95
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by roguerouge :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 8:11am

Worked about as well as it usually did for Gob, actually.

7
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 9:03pm

Just think about the weather delay we could have at the Super Bowl in New Jersey in February.

8
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by roguerouge :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 9:42pm

Pass rush concerns for Broncos... Verified

9
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 9:50pm

I can't spell his name but SS Broncos is ballin tonight.

10
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 9:51pm

Plus the Denver pass rush is non existent, Flacco is looking awesome.

11
Baltimore @ Denver
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 9:53pm

A little quick reads snippet from Denver's first quarter offense...

Manning to Welker: 4/4, 39yds, 3 first downs
Manning to everybody else: 1/5, 5yds, 0 first downs

14
Re: Baltimore @ Denver
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:01pm

So it looks like Wesley is benefitting from the attention given outside. It's a pick your poison with extra poison under each cup.

85
Re: Baltimore @ Denver
by Bobman :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:31am

That wasn't just poison; it was iocane powder. And everybody had it in their Gatorade, it's just that Manning has been building up a tolerance to it for the past few months...

12
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:00pm

Well, that's a rather unpredictable special teams play. Take out your own return guy in a blind collision.

13
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:00pm

Is it a foul to interfere with your own teams fair catch?

15
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:02pm

Wow, a defensive play. That was unexpected, given the way the game was going for the Ravens O vs Bronco D.

16
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:04pm

Woo, immediate strike. I'd be interested to hear if Collinsworth is right and the Ravens bit on a deceptive fake-signal.

18
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:08pm

It was a very good run fake with a convincing pump. Good play.

What I didn't like was Manning calling for the late hit. You might be old but that's the job. If you don't like it you have the cash in the bank to retire.

19
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by ticttoc (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:11pm

That Collingsworth bit about hand signals annoyed me. They never change hand signals?!? Even when you're playing a team that has former players?!? How abot talking about the fake bubble screen to Decker and the selling of the fake by the TE and WR as well as the pump fake. Well executed offensive play and scheme. But no we get hand signals?!?!

23
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:19pm

Well, it does happen, but still, no kidding. Wouldn't any knowledge the Ravens have gotten be obviously verified as still true or not within about 5 minutes of Manning's offense? They aren't going to put themselves at an obvious disadvantage for a quarter just to setup a hopeful single play, even for a TD.

17
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:07pm

Clever. Denver scored a TD on a WR screen to Thomas in the playoff game, it looked like they faked that same play.

Ravens only dressed 4 WRs, so its looking pretty thin now.

20
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:13pm

Haha Broncos. HAHA.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:13pm

... Why send Welker back there? Don't want the injury chance (he's half your offense so far) and if he isn't the normal guy, then he doesn't practice that catch as often. So, why?

22
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:18pm

Because Holliday sometimes fumbles, so you put back someone with (supposedly) better hands. Why he was trying to catch it there might be better question. Sometime wonder why not go for the 11 man rush on the punts you don't expect to return...

24
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by evenchunkiermonkey :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:20pm

Time Warner and NBC are having a staring contest in my market and the game is not available unless you have an antenna. Any one else in this boat?

29
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:32pm

Similar but different here in UK, if I buy Gamepass from NFL then I still don't get to see about a third of the Bronco's games (including this one). Due to for some reason the NFL being in thrall to SkySports :(

25
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:24pm

So much for the theory that Michael Huff would be an adequate replacement for Ed Reed.

28
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:29pm

Quoting you, "Haa Haa Ravens"

26
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:25pm

Well, Manning in fine form tonight so far. Also, that wasn't the tightest coverage by a CB.

27
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:25pm

Ah, if you do the Ravens patented throw the ball way down field and draw an iffy DPI play AGAINST the Ravens, you get an iffy OPI. Good to know.

31
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:34pm

I wouldn't complain too much, it was an obvious Holding/Illegal Contact play that resulted in Denver's INT of Flacco.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:56pm

Your boy Flacco should have gotten nailed for grounding in the endzone.

35
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:02pm

I though so too but then I TiVoed back and he was just outside the tackle box, by about a yard.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:03pm

I have TiVo too. I disagree.

40
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:20pm

That has nothing to do with how DPI/Illegal contact is being called.

30
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:33pm

Is that really worth a challenge? Yeah, it's definitely the wrong call on the field, but taking away five yards on a first-down play, when you only have two (or three) challenges?

32
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:46pm

Revolution is still on. Huh.

33
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 10:48pm

With all of the discussion recently about defenses faking injuries to slow down offenses, I predict that teams will use fake "cramps" instead of injuries so it looks less suspicious when the player immediately returns to the game. That obviously wasn't the case there, but it made me think of that tactic.

37
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:05pm

Another half to forget from Walt Coleman and crew.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:12pm

They might have challenged that if they hadn't used a challenge earlier. They would still have another challenge since they would have been right both times, but maybe they didn't want to risk it since they weren't sure that it wasn't a catch.

39
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:18pm

Similar psychology regarding uses of challenges really messed up the Australian cricket team this summer.

Although the 5 yard challenge might be said to have paid off as I'd guess OL false start more on longer yardage plays.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:22pm

Rogers bowled Swann was superb.

44
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:24pm

The full toss LBW that was missing? Yes, it was a real case of brain cramp.

43
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:23pm

Oh, I agree that the first challenge paid off. Not using the challenge on that second chance, however, looks to be the turning point of this game.

45
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:27pm

Could well be. How obvious was it? I'm listen to radio, and commentators thought it was a catch until sometime later.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:33pm

The defender (Corey Graham) immediately signaled that it hit the ground, which Al Michaels pointed out, so he knew. And when they showed the replay, it was very obvious that it hit the ground. There was absolutely no question it should have been an incomplete pass. But Manning smartly had them snap the ball quickly for the next play and the rest was history.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:36am

Not like Manning's ever done that before....

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:34pm

Hard to see from above or the sides, painfully obvious if seen from the front (the camera shot from behind the Denver offense). I don't really blame the officials for missing it, but Harbaugh's booth guys let him down, or his decision-making did.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:31pm

I really would like to see the NFL come up with a way to not penalize coaches for successful challenges. Giving them an extra challenge if they get both right doesn't make up for making coaches decide whether 'this' challenge that would probably be correct is as good as another challenge that 'may' come later.

At the same time, I realize with the slowness of challenges, they do need to do something to offset the 'continue challenging forever as long as you keep finding something wrong to fix' that could open up if you simple used the tennis system (no loss of future challenge attempts as long as you weren't wrong).

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:35pm

Cricket uses 2 challanges, only lost if you are wrong, per innings in test matches. Works well enough.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:00am

The NFL takes an absurd length of time with it's challenges. When you are slower than test cricket, a five day game, then your system is crap.

It results from the bizarre belief that only the referee can make a decision. Why not have a replay official who can be set to work immediately instead of the running backwards and forwards we see every week. Only the NFL could come up with the current nonsense.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:16am

When the NFL first started using instant replay in the late 1980s, they did have a replay official. But that didn't work out too well, as the replay officials seemed to make a lot of mistakes. (Of course, mistakes occur under the current system, too.) It also took a long time for replay reviews and there seemed to be occasional miscommunication with the officials on the field. With advances in technology since then, that shouldn't be too much of a problem now. On the other hand, the NCAA uses replay officials now, and they seem to take even longer to resolve challenges than the NFL does.

Part of the reason that challenges take so long is that it often isn't a simple matter of determining whether or not a pass is complete or not, whether a play was a fumble or not, etc. Often the ruling is obvious, but the long delay comes from determining other things such as how much time should be on the clock and exactly where the ball should be spotted. The latter may require looking at several camera angles.

64
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:17am

That's really true. If the upstairs, with-a-really-nice-monitor(s) setup replay official sees a play even in question of being replayed, he could have anything challengable figured out by the time the coach manages to talk to the head referee. That would take the replay down from 2 minutes to 20 seconds. And honestly, how does figuring out where the ball used to be not a 3 second query?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by JimZipCode :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 7:48am

As usual, the NFL makes it too complicated. You should be able to challenge so long as you still have timeouts. Lose a timeout for every wrong challenge.

So yeah, you could keep challenging forever if you win every challenge. If that's a problem, then the refs should start making correct calls.

42
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:23pm

That series of plays, from the missed challenge to the TD post-punt block sure changed the game. And now the Bronco Defense is doing things.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:31pm

Broncos defense was doing things before, the Ravens running game was being throttled after the first few runs, and the long passing game has been misfiring too. But it sounds more like the defense is getting some pressure too now.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:39pm

Oher going out I think has something to do with that.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:46pm

Missed that, thanks for the info.

55
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:58pm

At which point the Ravens were forced to put into the game a guy who was not capable of beating out the wreckage of Bryant McKinnie (which wreckage, admittedly, is not as awful as it could be, and was a big part of the playoff success, but still...) for a starting job.

Meanwhile, until he got that first sack where he just ran by Wagner, I had actually forgotten that Shaun Phillips was still in the league.

57
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:05am

Bronco have Ramirez at OC, but he seems to have been remarkably invisible given how obvious (for the wrong reasons) he was at RG last year.

From memory Philips is playing on a $1m prove you can still play contract, so probably an OK pickup by Broncos under the circumstances.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Dragon Pie (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:07am

He had 9.5 sacks last year.

53
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Crunch (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:50pm

Baltimore's Offense looks like they're falling apart. Blown assignments, bad decisions and stupid penalties.

54
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Thu, 09/05/2013 - 11:52pm

On that duck of a throw from Flacco I didn't hear any whistles or see any incomplete signaled. I think the officials were letting that play run as if a fumble until it became clear every player had given up on the play. Now I think it was incomplete on review; but did anyone see a signal that the play was over live?

58
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:06am

On that duck of a throw from Flacco I didn't hear any whistles or see any incomplete signaled. I think the officials were letting that play run as if a fumble until it became clear every player had given up on the play. Now I think it was incomplete on review; but did anyone see a signal that the play was over live?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:08am

How many 'good old boy' stories about how this coach is related to this coach who used to do drink with this coach before we realise that the reason we don't see minority coaches is the result of the NFL old school network?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:10am

ESPN stats says Broncos have sent 11 DB blitzes. Makes me wonder how much Jacoby getting injured made a difference, he did seem to be making some plays early.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:15am

There's the obligatory "What an Idiot!" moment for the game. KCW's been settled right there, I think.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:19am

Well, if you are going to chop wood, may as well do it with a 25 point lead...

68
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:21am

That depends on how badly Woodyard got hurt on the play, I think. And now a Baltimore TD means that Manning needs to go back out there with the offense and risk getting hurt, too, since the game is back on.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:30am

Woodyard back in.

81
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by evenchunkiermonkey :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:00am

Not able to watch the game, what happened?

83
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by evenchunkiermonkey :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:12am

Never mind, just checked the play by play and answered my own question.

62
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:15am

Why go for 4th down at this point in a game...

Playing for the bizarre touchback, perhaps?

65
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:18am

Yakety Sax

66
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:19am

... good lord man, how do people still make that mistake. KCW (even in a 25 pt blowout).

69
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:22am

Haha. Man if the Ravens come back off the Bronco's Lett'ing, I think that might be the most hilarious thing I see all year. I love preseason football.

71
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:25am

I like to think of that as a "DeSean".

70
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:23am

Well, at least the Ravens seem to have found a UDFA gem in WR Marlon Brown. They're going to need all the WR help they can get given their sorry state of TE's.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by JimZipCode :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 8:34am

Awful showings from Brandon Stokely, Ed Dickson, & Dallas Clark before he started showing signs of life in the 4th Q. Stokely was nothing but drops when the game was still competitive, and he let Harris undercut him for Flacco's first INT. Dickson dropped 4 passes before he finally caught one in the last Q. One or two of those would have been tough catches, and in one case he got lit up by Rahim Moore, but you have to catch something. I'm tired of Dickson: his hands were crap last year and the year before too. The angry fan in me wants the Ravens to go ahead and cut him today, and sign Furstenburg off the practice squad. But probably a more measured approach is correct.

Clark also made the least of his opportunities thru 3 quarters. But he was fighting hard in the 4th Q – maybe trying to do a little too much, judging by the fumble – so the mad fan in me as mollified.

Distinct difference in talent between the Ravens pass-catchers and the Broncos. This is the wrong offseason to criticize Ozzie Newsome, and it definitely was appropriate for the Ravens to spend most of their resources improving the defense after last year. But the Ravens don't have any high-end talent at the pass-catching positions other than Torrey Smith (2nd round). And I guess Dickson (3rd). The injuries to Pitta and Deonte Thompson really hurt, as does Tandon Doss's startling washout. And the signings of old, slow Stokely & Clark look like mistakes, roster spots that should have gone to younger, faster players. (Although those 2 guys might still be knocking the rust off – only signed a couple weeks ago.)

All this is a roundabout way of saying that to my eye, Flacco didn't play as poorly as the stats & scoreboard say. I only blame him for one of the INTs; and if his receivers had come down with 3/4 of the balls that hit them in the hands, the Ravens would have had a lot more completions and first downs.

Oh well – as a Ravens fan, if I could choose only one of the 3 recent Baltimore-Denver games for them to win, they got the right one. :-)

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:30am

Is anyone else annoyed by NBC's graphics showing players with something (paint?) exploding/flowing out of the players' uniforms/equipment? What is the point of that?

120
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:50pm

Yeah I noticed, on the introduction things right?
Dunno, should make it look cool or something.

206
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:46pm

YES. It is ridiculous.

74
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:37am

If you fake onside... wouldn't you be going for the kick to be returnable? Or do we just assume he overkicked it in the Mile High air?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:39am

I figure any victory they could get was welcome, including a useless "haha we tricked you" victory.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:43am

Well, they already had the victory of 'haha, your defense did a pick-tb'

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:41am

Wow. 7 TD passes. That's insane. Aside from the aberration of Manning, I wonder how out of character this pass defense is for the Ravens this year.

79
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:50am

Starting James Ihedigbo at safety isn't a good sign

80
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:57am

With Julius Thomas showing up, then the Broncos have a pretty decent set of receivers. Manning obviously makes them better, but there is a lot of athleticism for him to throw to. I'm sure some teams will be easier to cover. Got a couple of sacks, and Manning took a while to find holes (he was mostly quiet in the 1st half) so there is hope for the Ravens.

This game is likely to confuse DAVE though - and unless Denver really are special then it might make a dent in their weighted value later in the season as it gets discounted.

100
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by apbadogs :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 10:32am

Probably won't be seen but Manning did throw for 160 yards and 2 TDs in the first half...that's no "mostly quiet".

84
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:13am

They didn't look good, but it's unlikely they'll play a team with as many receiving threats as the Broncos have for the rest of the year ( and this was with a lousy game from Eric Decker ).

78
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 12:50am

Sooo... Brock can't do hand-offs?

87
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 1:41am

He's sure as hell no Jim Sorgi!

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 2:17am

+1!

88
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 2:00am

I was, as a small child, at the last NFL game in which a qb threw 7 td passes. It was the first NFL game I ever attended. My memory of the event is a bit foggy, lo these 44 years later, but I do not recall too many other similarities between one Joe Kapp and tonight's Peyton Manning. Manning may throw a better ball and read defenses more quickly, but in a contest of drinking a shot of Patron, every time Phil Simms said something stupid during a NFL broadcast, my money would be on Joe, even at Joe's advanced age. He once got into a fistfight on a Sunday night with Vikings middle linebacker Lonnie Warwick, in a dispute over which one of them was responsible for a Vikings loss earlier that afternoon. Joe earnestly believed that he was at fault, and Lonnie wasn't having any of it, due to his strong conviction that it was instead he, Lonnie, who was the goat. Before ya' knew it, it was an ethanol powered fist city in the front yard of a teammate's house.

I betcha' ol' Peyton's never done that!

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by JimZipCode :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 7:54am

/thread win.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 2:25am

I probably seemed like I was on acid on the bus ride home from the game. I was just kind of staring out the window, not saying a word. But every once in a while I'd mutter "seven" to myself, grin like an idiot and shake my head.
I come away from this game with a couple significant concerns, but it seems like it would be untoward to spend a lot of time on them. So instead I choose to be blown away by the night that Manning had, and cautiously thrilled with Duke Ihanacho.

91
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by bobrulz :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 3:58am

Shame for Danny Trevathan, because it seemed to my admittedly untrained eyes that he was having a pretty decent game until the "Drop-Six". Luckily, given it occurred in a game where Peyton Manning threw 7 TDs, it will probably be forgotten by the end of the season.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 9:14am

He's lucky he doesn't play in NY. Coughlin would have cut him before he made it to the sidelines.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 4:43am

The offense was pretty much lights out. The pass defense was good too. Once they add Bailey and Miller to that group they'll be four-deep at CB, with some of the best coverage LBs in the league and have the best passrusher in the game.

That combination of high powered offense and great pass defense is going to be tough to beat. I'm finding it hard to stay pesimistic...

All this, I guess, is assuming the Ravens are any good.

98
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by MaineRaider :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 9:46am

As much as I despise the Broncos, there was schadenfreude in seeing them continue to throw the ball and score superfluous points against the Ravens, who ran a fake field goal touchdown last year against the Raiders with the game safe in hand.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben :: Fri, 09/06/2013 - 10:16am

As a Colts fan, I have to say that Manning guy is pretty good...

101
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:07pm

Kickoff of TEN-PIT results in a safety. How often does this happen?

103
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by HabeasDorkus (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:21pm

At least once, apparently.

108
Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:32pm

That wouldn't have been a helpful response even if I had asked "How many times has this happened?" As it is, it's unhelpful and nonsensical.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by HabeasDorkus (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:42pm

Sorry, that was glib. I do recall this happening in the past, though not on the opening kickoff.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:20pm

News in: the Saints defence still stinks

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:30pm

More news in: The Bears defense still forces turnovers. Charles Tillman with a pick on the Bengals' second offensive play leads to a short TD drive by the Bears, capped off by an incredible TD catch by Martellus Bennett in the back of the end zone.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:21pm

Double post

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:27pm

Can't tell if the Lions offense is in 'Beast Mode' (followed up by 'sleep mode' in the red zone), or if the Vikings defense is made of swiss cheese.

Game started off with the Lions averaging ~8 yds a play, until they got stuffed on 2nd/3rd and 1, fumbled the FG snap, and then surrendered a 75 yrd run to AP on the subsequent play. Either a 14 or 10-point swing to start off the season.

Then, the next Lions drive starts out the same way, non-stop yardage. Then Calvin drops the ball trying to catch and extend over the goal line (replay reverse) and they get stuffed again. This time the FG works.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:30pm

Sean Payton goes for it on 4th & 1 at midfield (good), but runs Mark Ingram into the face of 10 Falcons defenders waiting for him (bad)

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:35pm

So whats with alll the safeties this year? We're already at three! Fluke - most likely but still odd!

Also can someone transplant Greg Olsen a set of hands ? Thats two big passes he's dropped. The commentators saying the defenses are dominating but thats not true - Seattle's Defense has been poor aside from a couple of pass breakups (including one near interception) and.... two greg olsen drops.

Someone check Olsen's bank account. Maybe a suspicious deposit ?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:37pm

Story of the Tampa-Jets first quarter: Jets D-Line good, Tampa O-Line bad. All the run plays being stuffed, and Freeman's getting buried with pressure. Meanwhile, the offenses seem to be dueling one another for the title of biggest clown.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:40pm

Don't have the game... Is it guard thats bad for Tampa with Carl Nick's being out?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:45pm

Looks like all of the above, really. Jets are abusing the edges on pass plays and just stuffing the run, generally...until this most recent drive.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:40pm

Wow Andy Dalton's long ball goes high.

Also interestingly neither Tillman nor Green elevated for it because... despite it going up a bunch in the air it STILL managed to end up slightly behind Green.

Nice coverage by Tillman coverage wise against Green inside the 5. ... Well at least on the first play. The second one Green interfered - slightly - and left Tillman in the middle of the field as he turned into the flat for an easy touchdown.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:44pm

Interfered? That depends on whether the ball was already in the air. It was within 5 yards of the LOS.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:43pm

You'd think they cut Renaud on the spot.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:46pm

Lions get the ball at midfield, go back down the field. Once again, they touch the red zone and fall apart. Get to 4th and 1, go for it, make it, holding penatly. 7-6, the Vikings have had the ball for 2 minutes and its the start of the 2nd quarter.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:50pm

Still 2 mintues. Deflection off Simpson's hands, pick-6... the 6 part recalled due to penalty.

And before I finished typing, Stafford hands it right back, tipped high, picked easily.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:46pm

Pouncey couldn't make it through the first quarter as he's out with a knee injury.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:55pm

Ponder with a decent long ball to Simpson, had DPI but a catch anyway. TD Peterson. Another huge point swing, from Lions pick-6 to Viking TD drive thanks to int swaps (and stupid Lions/Suh penalty). 14-6

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:56pm

I see E.J. Manuel's perfect record of handing off on every zone "read" remains intact...

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 1:57pm

The Saints defence makes a 'play' as Julio Jones inexplicably fumbles after being left wide open in the middle of the field.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:11pm

Color commentator: "The momentum has really swung Tampa's way."

Next four plays: 3-yd. pass, incomplete, -3 yd. screen pass, punt.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:24pm

"Tampa bay lost their momentum!"

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:12pm

Peterson can't get positive yardage unless its for a TD. He has less yardage now after 8 runs than he did after 1.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:35pm

People never think of his as a boom and bust back. This is ridiculous though.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:38pm

Oh I certainly do, he's gotten better about not dancing in the backfield as much since his rookie year though.

However, I can't say any of it is him 'busting'. More that the Lions are hitting him in the backfield on every play. O-line needs to do some severe run-blocking upgrades over halftime.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:43pm

Peterson is indeed a boom-or-bust RB, but for some reason he doesn't get punished for it by FO readers as much as Barry Sanders does, despite the statistical evidence. It defies explanation.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:06pm

That's because Sanders is only punished for it relative to his peers, Emmitt, Davis, etc. Peterson has no comtemporary peers.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:43pm

Sanders is indeed punished by DVOA. That much has been well established here.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:07pm

1. I'm not sure FO readers are that down on Sanders. I even think DVOA like him too.

2. Boom-bust or not AP is the best RB in the world, and it is not close. Boom-bust doesn't matter when comparing AP to Arian Foster...

3. ... but it might matter when comparing the all-time greats. When we, in five years, are figuring ot where AP belongs relative to Sanders, Dickerson, Payton, Smith and Brown, Boom-bust should and probably will enter the Peterson equation.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:48pm

FO readers might actually love Barry Sanders because he was exciting to watch, but my impression is that they're pretty much decided that his production underperformed his value. I won't argue that. My cimplaint is that Peterson is overvalued by the same crowd only because he's visible now while Sanders has been out of view for 20 years.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:52pm

You've got some work left if you want to argue that Peterson is overrated.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 9:35pm

I'm not saying that Peterson is overrated, I'm just saying that if Sanders can be criticized for having too many negative carries, so can Peterson.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 10:12am

Until FO can figure out how to parcel out offensive line contribution to running (or absence thereof), it can't parcel out RB value.

Sanders didn't run behind an overwhelming line after he left OK State.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:21pm

Lions still an undisciplined mess. Of course, Ponder holds the ball to long, hits as he's throwing, INT and back to the Lions.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:23pm

call is a completed pass, 14 seconds on the clock.
Play is reviewed and Ben's knee was down, so it was a sack at 0:41 seconds. The clock would run on...

So, the refs put the ball at the spot of the sack with 14 on the clock.

Is this normal ruling to keep the clock as it is?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 2:27pm

Terrell Pryor is starting for the Raiders.
Anyone knows how that works out?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:09pm

Pryor just had a nice TD pass to McFadden.

Edit: might lose on review.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:22pm

Two third downs in a row where Freeman doesn't even think about looking at a second option with the ball when the Jets' D blows up the play.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:32pm

...Good to know that the release German suplex is still legal in football. @_@

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:33pm

Not that I don't appreciate getting Peterson the ball in space, since handing off right now seems like a good way to waste a down, but wasn't Kalil in the endzone blocking on that TD catch?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:43pm

Wait, Buffalo is ahead of NE in the 4th quarter?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:53pm

Yes, Pats have three unforced turnovers today.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Independent George :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:02pm

Even with the turnovers, Brady's numbers look terrible. What's going on there?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:13pm

They're trying to make it interesting for the fans by giving Buffalo a chance before they pull it out with the inevitable two-minute-drill winning drive.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:15pm

Doesn't matter. Brady.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 3:47pm

Ugh. It was sad to watch the Saints kick a field goal inside the 10 on a fourth and two to go up by 6 instead of going for the touchdown or leaving the Atlanta inside the 10 and still being up by six.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:00pm

Yeah - i thought Payton was in FU mode at wouldgo for it, but no sadly.

All of this is made worse now that it "paid off".

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:37pm

Well, after the Saints defense failed to slow the Falcons offense for most of the drive, it turned out that they were clutch after all when they lucked out and the Falcons offense sputtered.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:05pm

3rd and goal from the 3, brand new shiny RB in the backfield, 45 seconds to go, and you can't ram it home in two plays? I think the ghost of old Michael Turner has taken residence in Mike Smith's brain.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Peregrine :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:48pm

The ghost of Michael Turner might be haunting the back of Mike Smith's brain, but the shaky OL is doing an embarrassing vaudeville act in the front of it.

I have no answers for why the Saints defense seems to play relatively well against us. Been a trend for a few years now.

I was happy with the play of the rookie CBs and the red zone defense, for the most part.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:18pm

Pats win on last-second figgie.

For a while there it looked like they might be alone in last place in the AFC East. Dolphins won and the Jets had a late lead.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:19pm

With one play for 80 yards, is the Music City Miracle play the best bet?
I understand a Hail Mary won't do it, but why not set up a deep screen with 4 receivers and a running back behind it, 20 yards down field.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:21pm

LaVonte David trying his best to win KCW there.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:23pm

I think we have a new leader in the clubhouse for KCW: Lavonte David.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:23pm

Oh man, LaVonte David. KCW frontrunner (Trevethan and whoever fielded that opening kickoff in Pittsburgh honorable mentions)

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:25pm

Yeah, it's got to go to David because the other guys got bailed out by their team, while he handed the Jets the game-winning field goal attempt.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:26pm

Still, quite a lot of stupidity on display here in Week 1. It's almost a theme, the number of terminally dumb errors.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:26pm

Re LaVonte David: I'm not so sure the Bucs won't be getting an apology letter from the NFL about that one -- Geno wasn't out of bounds when the contact was initiated.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:27pm

Regardless: stupid play by David, call in poor taste by the officiating crew, even if it somehow was technically correct.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:35pm

From the replay I saw, Smith was definitely out of bounds.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:37pm

I agree - seemd OB to me.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 4:54pm

Yes, he was out of bounds. Was pretty clear.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 8:07pm

Watch it again and read carefully what I said -- you're wrong.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:18pm

Continuing with the theme of stupidity in Week 1, that was the difference in the Bears win over the Bengals. The Bengals' poor game management and lack of discipline included the following:

1. Passing on 2nd and 14 (incomplete) from inside their own 10 yard line with about a minute left in the first half and the Bears with only 1 timeout. The Bengals led 14-7 at the time. Two running plays would have nearly drained the clock and prevented the Bears from scoring. Even Phil Simms noted how poor of a decision it was to pass on second down there and that they should have run the ball. After the incomplete pass and a short running play, the Bears used their timeout and forced a punt with :50 left.
2. After the punt went out of bounds, Dre Kirkparick committed a stupd personal foul for pushing/shoving a Bears blocker while out of bounds. (Side note: Am I the only one who thinks the officials made a mistake in spotting the ball after the penalty? It looked like the ball went out of bounds at the Bengals 49 yard line, meaning that after the penalty the ball should have been at the 34 yard line. However, the officials spotted the ball at the 44 yard line.) The additional yardage led to a 58 yard field goal by the Bears to close the deficit to 14-10 at the half. Those 3 points ended up being the difference in the game.
3. Wasting their last two timeouts sandwiched around a successful 4th down conversion by the Bears on what turned out to be the game-winning drive. The Bengals called the first timeout because they only had 10 players on defense. After the first down, the Bengals called time out because they had 12 players on defense. (I note that the Bengals also had a penalty for 12 men on the field before the PAT following the Bears' second touchdown.) This left the Bengals without any timeouts with about 8:00 remaining in the game.
4. Helped greatly by the Bengals' lack of timouts, the Bears ran out the last 6:38 of the game on offense, converting two third downs. The Bengals still would have gotten the ball back deep in their own territory with about 20 seconds left after stopping the Bears on a third down run, but Rey Maualuga committed a stupid unnecessary roughness penalty by throwing a Bears lineman to the ground after the play right in front of two officials. Two game then ended after two kneeldowns by the Bears.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by akn :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:43pm

The Bengals called the first timeout because they only had 10 players on defense. After the first down, the Bengals called time out because they had 12 players on defense.

Statistically speaking, they're right on!

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:25pm

A real egregious example of "offsetting penalties" in the 49ers-Packers games. Clay Matthews decked CK after he was out of bounds. But then there was some pushing and shoving - understanding IMHO since Matthews had just tried to break Kaepernick's leg out of bounds.

So the refs call a late hit on Matthews and unsportsmanlike conduct on one of the 49ers and declare the penalties offsetting, not only letting Matthews get away with a late hit, but also cancelling the yardage that Kaepernick had gained.

Really bad officiating there.

Matthews should have been kicked out of the game for that hit. It was not only late, he clothes-lined Kaepernick in a way that could have caused a serious injury.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 7:59pm

It was later confirmed that the officials had screwed up when they cancelled the result of the play. The two dead ball fouls should have been offsetting, but Kaepernick's run should have stood.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:46pm

The run, AND the down. It would have been 4th down.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 8:01pm

It was only illegal because it was out of bounds, the play on itself - he wrapped around the shoulderpads on a QB out of the tackle box, which is legal - was nothing wrong with. Even if it was a clothesline, I'm not even sure if that grants you an ejection.

So a 49ers lineman retaliates - which is also a penalty. So they offset it, play stands, and should have been 4th down. Not 3rd as was called on the field.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 9:41pm

The retaliation looked like an odd call. Staley runs over and fronts up to Matthews, who then starts hitting Staley in the facemask. Then Staley did retaliate but I thought they could have flagged Fabio for unnecessary roughness twice, once for the hit out of bounds and once for starting a fight.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by bobrulz :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 5:59am

Matthews should've been ejected for hitting Staley's facemask, but it looks like the officials totally missed it.

Classless play by Matthews.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by alljack (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:55pm

Harbaugh was lobbying for that call all week with his remarks to the media about the danger to his QB. And he got the call.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 10:17am

He tackled him at the shoulders. Get over yourself. Kaeparnick isn't playing soccer, no matter how much Harbaugh wants to believe it.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:27pm

I don't know why the Packers accepted the penalty to give San Fran another shot at third-down. Matthews should've known better and they got lucky. Yes he left his feet before Kaepernick was out of bounds but he knew it was the sidelines. And yes San Fran responded how they should by scoring. I do think the Packers missed Morgan Burnett a few times already this game.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:30pm

No I was wrong Matthew's left his feet after Kaepernick was out of bounds it was even worse than I thought.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:37pm

It looked like Matthews was going for the big hit, regardless of whether he was in bounds or not. But I wonder how difficult it is to keep track of where the sideline is when you are going at a full sprint and tracking a ball carrier. For Lavonte David, for instance, I'd imagine he lost track of where he was. But to determine whether a guy is half a yard out of bounds or not is tough.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by the 18-1s (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 8:09pm

Geno wasn't "half a yard" out of bounds.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 8:34pm

Looked like it to me. Geno's body was out of bounds but neither of his feet had touched the ground out of bounds when David pushed him.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 4:17am

I've seen the play twice and could swear his right foot was planted out of bounds. Still David needed to be smart in that situation. It also seemed to me that Geno made it look worse than it was. I'll be surprised if the league apologizes for the call though. David Harris got hit with a similar call in the 2009 AFC championship game, and the Jets didn't get anything from the league, even the Colts also cheapshotted Sanchez blatantly on a running play and got away with it.
I think the Bucs in general are poorly coached and therefore prone to stupid penalties.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:35pm

Wow the refs love my Packers today. They have missed a couple of holds on receivers down field. Packers safeties are outmatched and getting lucky on calls.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:40pm

There were offsetting penalties. There was nothing to "accept".

Unless there's some technicality which would have allowed one of the two teams to decline. But that would not have helped the Packers any. Matthews had been flagged for a late hit.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:44pm

There was an illegal shift that gave the Packers the choice to either have 4th and 1 at the 5 or 3rd and 6 at the 10, and the Packers chose the latter. I would have gone with 4th down.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:02pm

Things I miss by watching Red Zone.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:45pm

I was talking about the penalty before the offsetting penalties

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 5:55pm

Running the ball is usually less risky than passing because you don't get big negative plays like sacks. But not when the Packers hold on every other running play.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Stabs :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:34pm

Now I understand that Carson Palmer isn't the best/most accurate QB out there, but as a Cardinals fan it is refreshing have a quarterback that can complete a forward pass.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:52pm

Yes, the Cardinals look much better when they have even a moderately competent QB.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:56pm

It reminds me of last season when, as a Broncos fan, I'd almost forgotten what a completed pass looked like after a year of TT. Decker and Thomas must have been near swooning when a ball actually hit them in the hands. I'm guessing that Fitz knows that feeling well ( I just hope they can sustain it ).

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Stabs :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:42pm

Fitzgerald destroys Cortland Finnegan in single coverage, and competent Arizona QB gives him his second TD, which is half his total from all of last season.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:58pm

Fun to see the Packers are putting the safety on Kaepernick on shotgun pass personnel. So no one is deep and Kaepernick is contained.
And right on queue Kaep throws some deep balls.
Also, I don't understand the Nissan commercial.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 6:52pm

My last minute thoughts on Bears-Bengals:

1. The Bengals are very good on both OL and DL. The Bears DL might have been invisible for all the pressure they failef to provide. This bodes poorly for the rest of the AFCN.

2. The Bengals punt return teams seemed poorly ptepared to deal with real grass, which may have been tthe real difference in the game.

3. Whatever one thinks of Dalton, he knows how to get the ball to AJ Green.

4. Jennings does not look so much like a Pro Bowl CB.

5. TO management by the Bears and Bengals look as bad as when Lovie Smith was in charge.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by akn :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 12:00am

1. Outside of a few pressures, the Bears OL allowed no sacks, including no tackles for Geno Atkins. This bodes poorly for the rest of the NFCN.

2. Also, blocks in the back.

3. Tillman was vomiting on the sidelines while defending Green, and had to be pulled for a while in the 2nd quarter (when Jennings had to cover Green). He also held Green to 3 catches/28 yards in the 2nd half. I look at his 2 INT performance today as his "Michal Jordan Flu Game."

Dalton played very well for 2.5 quarters, then basically disappeared.

4. On the opposing team's Pro Bowl #1 WR: yes, he didn't look very good. But he forced 2 fumbles, including a critical 4th quarter turnover that basically saved the game for the Bears, so he's still fairly deserving so far.

5. Agreed, but I think Tressman will eventually end up much better at this than Lovie. The Bears were usually lined up and ready to snap with about 15 sec left on the play clock.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 7:53pm

My Direct TV feed on my tablet stopped streaming at the start of the 4th quarter so I had to listen to the radio feed for the last quarter.

Things went about as I expected in the Upset Watch post ( http://www.footballoutsiders.com/fo-espn-upset-watch/2013/espn-upset-wat... ).

While the Packers run defense was better than I thought, they mostly made the 9ers have to grind things out until late in the game. Green Bay had no running game and were made one dimensional as I suspected. No Morgan Burnett hurt, though perhaps not as bad as it could have since the refs allowed Jennings and McMillian to hold several times. Bahktiari did have a few rookie mistakes but was better than I thought he might be. Packers pass rush was better than last year, but still not great. Score was where I thought it would be, though the 9ers got a few more big pass plays than I thought. Packers still have a very weak middle of the field pass defense which has been a problem for every Caper's lead defense, including the Super Bowl one.

I do think they can improve, and like I said in my linked post if this game were mid season I think they have a much better chance to win. They will make the playoffs and they are still legit Super Bowl contenders, but I really wish they had a real middle line backer and even if Burnett was playing safety I still miss Nick Collins.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by NYMike :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 9:46pm

Casey Hayward was also out. Micah Hyde was not fast enough to stick with Boldin, which is what they tried to do when they realized that not having any safeties on the field wouldn't have been much different than what they were doing. If the took DBs get healthy, GB's pass defense will improve quickly.

The run defense was very encouraging. The overall defense displayed right after they finally took the lead was not.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 8:34pm

Oh Eli.
That's the best "Are you kidding me?" face I've seen in a while.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by young curmudgeon :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 8:44pm

What must now pass for optimism among Steeler fans:

1. Steelers are tied for first in AFC North.
2. After today's "performance," Steelers have become a dark-horse contender in the Jadeveon Clowney sweepstakes.
3. If you had a prop bet that a safety would be the first score of the season for the Steelers, no more calls please, you're a winner!

Good luck for me: I was driving back home across Pennsylvania after a weekend in the Philly area with family, so I did not have the opportunity to actually watch the game. Hearing futility is somehow not as frustrating as both seeing and hearing it.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:00pm

As a Cowboys fan, welcome to my life.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 3:28am

other week like this and I'm going to stop DVRing Steelers games and start DVRing Ravens games.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 9:37pm

Boldin was a bit good wasn't he? Helped Kaepernick enormously. Eric Reid looks like a keeper too, impressive debut.

The pack seemed to be really concentrating on stopping the run, I doubt the niners will throw for 400 very often.

Also, Fabio (GB52) is a tool.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:19pm

On the one hand, I'm happy for my team. But I realize that fumble recoveries are more or less random, so this isn't _so_ inspiring...

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:23pm

This Giants offensive performance so far can only be described as a shambles.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 1:14pm

I thought Eli was passing rather sharp, accurate and all in all quite well.
Sure he threw a pick on first down of the season - a play like that won't easily happen again. Also, the other screen was tipped, that's on the RB... I wouldn't see that as a problem for Eli.
I thought he played quite well. At least there are things to go forward with.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:43pm

Dallas is putting a lot of pressure, but I feel like they're just coming up short against Eli. But this sort of pressure is better than in years' past.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:46pm

And this is a nice drive by NY. If they can make it 17-27 with a quarter to go, I'd not be confident as a Dallas fan

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:29pm

And... with under 2 minutes to go and NY driving I am 100% NOT confident.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 10:52pm

Yes, Chris, "there WAS a bit of a lunge"

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Jon Goldman (not verified) :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:00pm

The Giants look utterly pathetic. As normal.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:04pm

Dunno dude. Four straight huge plays. They've moved the ball to the 17 in no time.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 09/08/2013 - 11:06pm

Yeah. In about two minutes they drove down the field and scored. One incomplete pass. Fuck Dallas.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:18pm

Ryan Kerrigan bats down a pass which DeAngelo Hall picks up and returns for a TD. Nobody really thinks that's a backwards pass, do they? Refs let it play as such, knowing that it can be reversed on replay.

Given that Vick was outside the 9 yard line and Kerrigan was inside the 9 yard line, I don't see how that can be a backwards pass.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:22pm

Stands doesn't really surprise me as an outcome. A judgment like that is really a job for computers.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:57pm

Yeah, that was not to be reversed on replay. Just too hard to tell.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:47pm

It was very difficult to determine whether or not that was a lateral. I figured it wouldn't be reversed because the replay was inconclusive. The problem is that although Kerrigan was right at the 9 yard line, he extended his arm forward and the ball hit his arm. It's really hard to tell where the ball was when it hit his arm.

This game is crazy so far. Both NFC East games have been crazy. Turnovers galore!

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:19pm

Up-tempo offenses seem likely to up the tempo of catastrophic mistakes too. Point: slow and steady.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:25pm

Eagles football is fun!

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:52pm

I detest the camel geico commercial.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:08pm

I detest the NFL Sunday Ticket "Most Powerful Fan" commercials. We all know about NFL Sunday Ticket and how great it is, especially for fans like me who don't live in the city where their favorite team plays. But those commercials are really annoying. I hereby nominate them for the end of the year awards for worst commercial(s).

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 11:24pm

That might be my favourite commercial ever.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:54pm

Wow, another safety. Good lord.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 7:54pm

Redskins really don't look ready for this game. Mistakes galore.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Jimmy :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:02pm

This is crazy, 188 yards to 9, 11 first downs to 0 and three minutes left in the first.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Jimmy :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:03pm

Oh and 30 plays to 7. Defensive coordinators reckon their defenses are gassed after 55, I suspect we will see.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:05pm

And yet the Redskins are only down by 5.

Of course, the numbers you cite neglect the fumble returned for a TD.

Still, it feels like the Eagles should have at least 20 points there.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Jimmy :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:52pm

I missed it, my 'smart' TV was playing up.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:19pm

Ryan Kerrigan is keeping the Redskins in the game.

You'd think the Eagles would block him on 3rd and long.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:36pm

Technically, if you go over the QB's back like on that sack, how do you manage to avoid hitting the head? That said, I'm glad they didn't call it, but I was partially expecting it.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:43pm

I can't see Vick lasting more than a couple games taking this many hits.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 8:51pm

That... was a pretty weird finish to the half. Mind you, if you want to get out of the half, apparently a couple of false starts will work out well for avoiding even having to take a knee.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 9:15pm

Griffin clearly rusty without any preseason play.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 10:07pm

This Eagles offense reminds me of the Run and Shoot (or "Chuck and Duck") Houston Oilers of 20 or so years ago in that it can put up a lot of points in a hurry, but it might have problems running out the clock. This game should have been over long ago. Yet the Redskins still have a chance, in part because the Eagles are not runnig off enough clock on offense.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 10:41pm

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do for when they step off the gas. If the D is already tired from the first chunk of running them ragged, shouldn't need the tempo to continue running successful plays that were being run before.

Could just be that they have a crappy 'Prevent' vanilla offense for clock-running currently, which wouldn't be surprising since they'd have spent all their time practicing the up-tempo offense.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 10:12pm

Did the Redskins O get better suddenly, or is that the Eagles shifted into Prevent and the announcers did their usual neglectful job and instead are just talking how much better the QB suddenly got?

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 09/09/2013 - 10:33pm

That was horrible safety play. Stopped like a moron and prepped to jump instead of continuing to back up. Shades of Denver/Ravens.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by anotherpatsfan :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 12:33am

How was that last Royal TD not a pick? 80 screened Royal's defender while the ball was in the air.

In other news, the announcing crew is about as bad as it gets... makes me want the return of Mike Greenberg for part 2 of the opening Monday night...

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:08am

Nooooo, don't punt. You've got ... oh, that works. Fake punt. Go aggresive choices... and that was an awesome catch by Foster

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:10am

Wow, they've really ruined that chance bought by the fake punt. 3rd & 20...

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:14am

If that actually is a catch, that was a beautiful one by Cushing.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:20am

That's the Philip Rivers and the Chargers we've come to expect for the past few years. Welcome back. It's as if Norv never left.

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:45am

Gah, stupid announcer. Don't talk about playing for a 40 yarder as a gimmie and a good strategy. Such a stupid thing, an all or nothing bet on a fg with a minute left on the clock, even if its a fairly high percentage kick. *shades of Childress* grumble, grumble

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:53am

I'll buy it as a more viable strategy in a tie game than it would be if the Texans were losing by 3 and playing to tie it up. The question is, how much does getting 10 yards closer gain you in increased chance of making the kick versus the potential of an intercepted pass (or of a sack or penalty pushing you out of FG range)? Why risk giving up a, what, 75%-80% chance to win the game outright for the chance to add a couple of percentage points of making the kick?

If they were down 3 then yeah, it's hellishly stupid, because they'd be abandoning the chance for a win to play for a tie, and a missed FG would result in losing the game, so they have two separate reasons to get closer and the consequences of missing the field goal are higher. Probably even stupid if they're losing by 1-2.

(Of course, what I'd really like to see is the expected win % numbers for the various situations...)

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Re: Week 1 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Tue, 09/10/2013 - 1:43am

Let's all go back to 2005 and try to imagine New Orleans fans being sorry for Chargers fans. Because tonight, they do.