Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

10 Nov 2013

Week 10 Open Discussion Thread

Discuss the highs and lows of Week 10 in this here open thread.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 10 Nov 2013

163 replies , Last at 12 Nov 2013, 2:05pm by Theo

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Michael LaRocca (not verified) :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 6:25pm

No sign of Richie in the Dolphins' locker room. He must be incognito.

2
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 9:36pm

That's exactly what Meriweather does best: play center field and pick off long, errant passes. Terrible throw by Ponder.

Was watching to see if any of the Vikings would go for a head-to-head tackle of Meriweather. Or maybe target a knee. Since, of course, there's nothing in between.

Nope.

3
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 9:42pm

Adrian Peterson is the only Viking O-player capable of dealing real pain to Merriweather, and I bet Merriweather keeps a 10-yd cushion between himself and Peterson.

4
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 10:08pm

Well if Meriweather tries that when AD gets into the secondary (as he did on the last play), Meriweather will enjoy watching the game from the bench.

5
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 10:24pm

Does anybody on these 2 squads know how to tackle?

6
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 10:26pm

Perhaps one of the punters?

Of course, they're not going to be seen at all tonight. So it's a moot point.

7
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 10:30pm

It's a textbook example of what happens when the stoppable force meets the movable object.

8
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Dr. Mooch :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 11:35pm

Good lord, the Redskins are on some kind of mission to end the season with a special teams DVOA worse than the Jaguars total DVOA

10
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 12:05am

The atrocious special teams and abysmal tackling on defense does not speak well of the coaching in this organisation.

9
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 11/07/2013 - 11:37pm

That's odd, why was the fake punt play ruled a false start? Looked like illegal motion to me.

11
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 12:28am

Why are Vikings taking timeout with a 7 point lead, 38 seconds left in the game, and the Redskins without any timeout?

They just gave the Redskins a huge gift.

22
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sat, 11/09/2013 - 8:43am

I can only think of 2 reasons:
1: to leave time on the clock for yourself if they score.
2: to be sure you get the right defense in.

12
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 12:29am

Well that was an uncalled hold that prevented a TD on 2nd down.

13
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 12:40am

Heeeee. Happy to actually see the Vikings play a game and look somewhat respectable (well, not really. That was some terrible tackling, until the sacks started... and Ponder broke his arm or whatever). And they won, instead of giving up like usual in the last 3 minutes (they tried to suck like usual, but a rare whaft of late game stiffness showed up).

That being said, I assume the TOs at the end was because Frazier had 0% belief in his defense's chance to stop them (which they did), and wanted some time on the clock for his offense to fail to do anything in 20 seconds. I guess maybe he thought there was also a decent chance that Washington would go for 2? Its either all that, or he's a moron.

16
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by jds :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 12:18pm

I don't think Frazier is a moron, I think he is a realist. He knows that his D has no chance of getting up and getting in position to defend the hurry up. A bad D with a chance to get in position is better than a bad D not ready to play. So good for him to recognize that and at least give them the best chance to maybe get a stop.

But of course, that just points to his failings as a coach in getting his D ready to play in that situation.

19
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 4:56pm

That maybe so, but he shouldn't be getting credit for the fact that two Redskins receivers dropped passes in the end zone after the time out.

Did anybody else hate the playcall on 4th down at the very end? Throwing a quick fade to the back of the end zone seems like a terrible use of your highly mobile QB on the very final play of the game.

20
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 5:26pm

I can't be too critical of the play call given that it nearly worked. If Moss had dragged his left foot instead of lifting it, and hadn't juggled the ball, that could have been a TD.

Of course, in hindsight you can look at 4th and goal and call a running play instead. The Redskins had had a good amount of success running. Just hate the fact that they were averaging over 5 yards per rush and they had three straight incomplete passes from the 4 yard line.

23
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sat, 11/09/2013 - 9:32am

I'm not suggesting they should have called a running play on 4th down, although that was clearly a feasible option; just something that didn't require Griffin to throw the ball immediately so that he could attempt to scramble if necessary. Although, yes, the play was well executed and within a fraction of working.

Calling a running play on 1st, 2nd or 3rd down would have been a very bold, probably wrong decision.

14
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 2:48am

Well, that game was an insult to tackling, although it was fun to see Kevin Williams look young again. I wonder if that cheap shot on his knee he got in the last exhibition game slowed him up for the first 8 games, and Mayock is right that it is not a real stretch to consider him a HOFer; I've always liked watching him more than I did Randle, for what it is worth, simply because he's always been so good against the run.

The nightmare scenario for Vikings fans is that they win enough games to not make an obviously sound qb pick in the first round. Either that, or Ponder recovers from yet another injury, and plays well enough in a few games against lousy defenses to think they need to give him more opportunities. Luckily, the Vikings remaining schedule is tough enough to make it more likely that they don't get to 4 wins.

15
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by jimm (not verified) :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 8:56am

Yes, before anyone gets to worried about wins lets remember Ponder's seeming competence for most of the game has a lot more to do with Washington's defence being terrible. He's still the same guy. To me it makes sense to play Freeman soon. He's the only one of the three that has really shown any possibility of being a starting QB. I don't like the chances that he is good enough, but think the chances that Ponder or Cassel are is zero.

I would like to see the rookie linebackers play a lot for the rest of the year. I don't see the point in Henderson and Mitchell getting snaps. I think Greenway is done as well, perhaps he has injuries slowing him down, but he has been truly horrid this year. Would also like to see a lot more of Everson Griffin at right end.

17
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 4:23pm

It doesn't bode well for Shanahan's reputation as a defensive coach (what little of that is left) that Christian Ponder and Matt Cassel ripped this defense to shreds. The sad thing is that, before Shanahan took over, the defense was actually pretty good. But Shanahan seems intent on turning the Redskins into the same team that he coached in Denver: strong offense based on running combined with a terrible defense.

And yes, Kyle Williams really made a difference in the 2nd half. It bugs me that, when it comes to Canton, it seems that D-linemen are judged largely by sack counts. A good defensive lineman will play 800+ snaps per season and, if very good at rushing the passer, get 15-20 sacks. Judging linemen primarily by such a rare stat (even a very positive one like the sack) doesn't seem the best way to go about things. It's like judging a hitter in baseball solely by his HR total.

18
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Fri, 11/08/2013 - 4:31pm

I was no aware of any defensive reputation Shanahan had. Other than some people thinking he fired his DCs in Denver too frequently to scape goat them.

21
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sat, 11/09/2013 - 8:41am

DeAngelo Hall is a good player, he makes many tackles and has 2 FF, according to the announcer.

You can think Hall is underrated or overrated, but he's not good because he makes tackles; he's not a cover 2 corner.

24
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 1:12pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for internet relay football chat!
Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

26
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:23pm

Remember when Pittsburgh flung the ball deep, let plays develop, were creative with bunch and trips formations and when passes to the runningback were bail out plays?

Now, the script of the first drive was: run up the middle, run up the middle, wildcat run, pass from a heavy set, run up the middle from shotgun, run, pass to the halfback behind the LOS for a loss, run, run, interception. Ben made no reads at all on that drive.
What are they thinking?!

25
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:18pm

Dierdorf is stunned that Marvin Lewis went for it on 4th and 1 at around the Ravens 45. The Ravens stop them, subsequently score a TD, and Dierdorf again harps on this point. But from what I've seen Bengals are one of the teams who most consistently go for it on 4th down. Not out of character at all I don't think.

27
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:45pm

So, I wake up late and get into the Pack/Eagles game. Suddenly the Packers are now utterly screwed, huh? Also, what's with all the injuries in this game? It's still the Q1!

37
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:15pm

The game is on Fox not AMC right? This is football not a soap opera with zombies I thought.

Evan Diethrich-Smith is down. So Lang at center, Barcly to guard adn Newhouse in at tackle....

28
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:46pm

Seneca Wallace out in GB with a groin injury. Scott Tolzien is in now. This does not bode well.

29
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:51pm

Did they dress 3?

30
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:56pm

Announcers were talking that one of the WR/RB was the emergency QB. Didn't catch who they were talking about. Guess the Packers only have 3QBs on the roster, including Rodgers.

33
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:00pm

They were actually saying the Packers were keeping the identity of the emergency QB under wraps.

34
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:02pm

They signed Tolzien from the practice squad this week.

31
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 2:56pm

Rams all over Indy. Indy struggling two weeks in a row. Can they get out with two wins?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:00pm

The Packers catch a break when Boykin catches a long pass along the sidelines but doesn't get both feet down before his arm lands out of bounds. Philly doesn't toss the challenge flag prior to the next snap despite Tolzien taking about 20 seconds to hike it.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:11pm

They got away with a blatant face mask on defense too which lead to the missed Philly FG. The refs seem to be on the Packers side today, though Philly not challenging the catch was just a bad decision. The offsides penalty would have let the Packers have a first down anyway, but that's still 30 yards of fiedl position.

35
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:08pm

I think redzone have shown three different flea flickers. Weird.

38
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:17pm

Jack Patera is sitting in Cle Elum with a huge smile on his face. That Razzle Dazzle play by the Seahawks looked like it was drawn straight out of his playbook. Ghosts of Zorn to Largent out there today. Tate and Lynch tearing it up as usual. Atlanta is starting to get frustrated.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Jake (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:22pm

As a Seahawks fan, I loved the trickeration. As a Marshawn Lynch fantasy owner, I'd rather see them dial up the halfback pass when they decide to apply the razzle-dazzle.

39
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:17pm

A few underdogs (Rams, Ravens, and Jags) dominating early.

40
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:18pm

So far with the Rams leading the Colts big and the Ravens leading the Bengals big, this should be a good week for Any Given Sunday.

52
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:49pm

Also, the Jaguars are leading the Titans.

Any win by the Jaguars would have to be considered a massive upset.

56
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:51pm

Irrationally, as a Broncos fan, this makes me nervous.

41
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:20pm

Rams 28 colts 0? Somebody spike Indy's drinking water?

43
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by DA (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:27pm

I really think Rodgers is worth 21 Points/Game to GB over Wallace/Tolzien/Replacement QB

44
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:32pm

Hawks giving Wilson time to pass today. Hawks rolling over Atlanta easily now.

45
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:43pm

Cut David Reed NOW! At half.
He keeps trying to bring the ball out of the end zone, and I think he's put the Colts inside the 10 twice, and inside the 15 once. That's the problem with having a kick returner who has no other role on the team -- trying to be a hero instead of playing good football. Ugh.
Only a small part of the problem, but certainly not a help when starting at your 20 after a kickoff is a free play.

50
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:48pm

And Reed brings it out again! To the 13! Unreal. Cut his butt now.

57
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:52pm

Please God, make Chuck put a different return guy in. I am begging you. Or, put no one back there and let the ball go out of the end zone.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:11pm

Maybe the coach tells the returner what to do?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:44pm

Now down 35-0. As a Colts fan, I think they are more like this than a 6-2 team. But, gees, that's awful football.

47
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:45pm

@ Colts: What the what?

48
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymoussssssss (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:45pm

Remember when FO was inexplicably jumping on the Pryor bandwagon after a game or two? Lol.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Boo Cocky :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:00pm

.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:47pm

What the hell's going on in Indy? Did the Colts simply take the Rams too lightly?

53
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:49pm

Colts OL a sieve. Every big play has been a Rams play. And just as I am typing this, TY Hilton catches a deep pass in the open, has one guy to beat ... and falls on the turf, eaten by the turf monster!

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:50pm

And then interception in the end zone.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:19pm

when it rains it pours?
Or is the oline just getting their supper served?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:48pm

And the media is busy painting this as a beat up ATL. team vs a "healthy" SEA team. Hawks won't be healthy until they face NO in three weeks.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Rikki (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:51pm

We know how these "undertog takes huge early lead" games go. Colts to win 41-38 in OT

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:54pm

Not today. If you can't score with Hilton having to outrun one safety, you're not going to score. My prediction is a late TD, but losing 35-7. The only hope for the Colts fans now is no injury to Luck.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 3:58pm

Luck with his second interception of the 3rd quarter after throwing only 3 in the first 8 games.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Nevic (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:05pm

On Riley Coopers long TD catch it sure looked like the ball was loose and hit the ground. There was no official review. That's probably about the 8th missed call in this game, although the misses have gone both ways.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Nevic (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:11pm

Looks like the same issue on the second Philly int too.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:19pm

I don't understand why Cutler's playing in the 2nd half. He's clearly hurting and it's making him ineffective. McCown proved that he can execute this offense and right now I'd argue he's a better option because Cutler's so restricted. Add the risk of reinjury and more missed time (if he hasn't already hurt himself) and...well, why's he still in the game?

67
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:32pm

Yeah, I don't understand it either. The Bears could win the game but lose the season if Cutler has to miss another 3 weeks --- unless they think this game decides their playoff hopes.

70
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:39pm

This is probably the most crucial single game for their playoff hopes, but as you said, the prospect of Cutler missing multiple games is bad. And at this point I really don't know if McCown gives them a lesser chance of coming back and winning this game compared to Cutler as he is right now anyway.

And of course, since this is bizarro day in the NFL, the Bears defense looks great while their offense is mediocre. It figures. Where was this defense 3 weeks ago when the Bears put up over 40 points and still lost?

72
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:48pm

Never mind. There's the 2013 Bears defense I know and hate. There's about a 99.99% chance they're going to run the ball up the middle, and you still give up 10+ yards to Bush on that play? Ugh.

150
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 11:45pm

I don't think the Bears D is playing all that well either. The DL has done a good job batting balls, but the run D wasn't good, Tillman isn't playing all that well, and Conte's 2 big plays were the result of poor throws by Stafford. I didn't see much in the way of a pass rush also.

66
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:26pm

An apparent AJ Green fumble is not overturned after a Harbaugh challenge. Bengals still in this.

68
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:34pm

Ravens get out of the 3rd quarter only allowing 3 points to the Bengals. Dalton will be throwing into a very strong wind in the 4th.

69
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:36pm

Thank Grid that Spurlock doesn't get another shot at a KO return. He's killing the Lions on field position.

Reggie Bush's 3 drops and fumble are symbolic of the biggest problems with the Lions offense.

71
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:41pm

Akers misses yet another FG. Bring back Kickalicious!!!

73
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:50pm

Poor Jags might still blow this game late.

74
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:52pm

Christine Michaels in for Lynch. Kid looks good. Hawks won't miss a beat when Lynch finally retires.

75
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:55pm

About time Fairley got called for tackling the QB long after he got rid of the ball. Is there a dirtier team than Detroit?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:51pm

It took them until the 3rd quarter to call a hold against the Bears, too. That's the way they call it at Soldier Field, because it used to favor the Bears -- except they're not good enough to take advantage of it this year.

76
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Nevic (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 4:58pm

The Nelson Td catch/incomplete pass looks a lot like the Eagles one from earlier in the game.

77
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:05pm

The Bengals are are called for a late hit on Flacco as he goes out of bounds. The problem is he was still in bounds when the hit was delivered. I know as a Jets fan my team has benefited from a call like that, but they're still happening too often.

78
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:06pm

On the first 2pt attemt to tie it for the Bears, Brandon Marshall was on the sideline. What?!

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:15pm

They completely botched both of those attempts. I can understand switching to a run after the penalty puts the ball on the 1 yard line, but I don't know what was up with the personnel...they lined up for the first one as if they were planning to run, and then brought in the receivers for the 2nd attempt and ran.

This is the first loss that I put squarely on the shoulders of Trestman. Apart from the failed 2 point conversion, Cutler had no business being on the field in the second half and I firmly believe they'd have had a better chance of winning with McCown. Hopefully Cutler's not seriously hurt and won't miss more time, but who knows.

Also, I know this was borderline, but I didn't like going for it on 4th and 1 early in the game when they were well into field goal range (but not so close that converting would make a touchdown extremely likely).

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:08pm

That was a very impressive throw by McCown to Marshall for TD while being brought down.

Followed by impressive power rush by Fairley to stop Forte on 2-pt play.

Exciting game. Detroit wins in spite of themselves.

80
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:11pm

50 sec to go, trailing 9 and you throw it 3 yards downfield to your running back?
That should be 4 straight passes into the endzone.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:21pm

Game tying hail mary in Baltimore. Oopsie.

84
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:25pm

That was awful. The Bengals were playing as if they still had 3 minutes to play. Very slow in getting ready for plays.

83
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:22pm

UNBELIEVABLE. The ball is tipped TWICE on a Hail Mary attempt from Dalton and the game will go to overtime. Ihedigbo only had to step out of the way of the ball, but he sets the ball up for AJ Green as if he's playing volleyball. Crazy, crazy.

85
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:32pm

Case Keenum loses the ball when Campbell sacks him, Cardinals recover, and score the TD. 14 seconds in and Texans down 7-0 with AZ offense never on the field.

86
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:42pm

Thats gotta be a catch by Dickso, right?!

87
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 5:48pm

Andre Johnson with an incredible catch for a TD to tie it in Phoenix. He's sprinting out of bounds, stretching to catch a pass, with good coverage by Peterson. He drags his second toe in bounds with about half an inch to spare.

88
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:01pm

Lechler absolutely crushes a punt, 61 yards from the end zone, then a 10-yard penalty tacked on to it. The Reed signing has blown up in the Texans' face, but I shudder thinking of what their ST DVOA would look like without some of Lechler's kicks.

89
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:10pm

Overtime in the Bengals-Ravens game turned out to be a tease after the sensational final play of regulation. Both quarterbacks were terrible in that game, it was a defensive domination. A bad loss, but I think the Bengals are still very likely to win the AFC North.

156
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SSC28 (not verified) :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 10:09am

This is 2 games in a row where the CIN O-line has almost been non-existent. I think the only play where Dalton had time to pass was the Hail Mary. MIA D-Line was in Dalton's face last week ... Ravens kept the pressure on all game as well. Diff b/w MIA and BAL games where that the CIN D-Line was effective vs BAL.

At least Gresham didn't play and add to the idiotic penalties.

90
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:20pm

Jonathan Joseph and Kareem Jackon have both left the field for injuries. Losing either of them is going to hurt; seems like most everything which could go wrong for the Texans has.

91
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:40pm

Did anyone catch the Incognito interview on FOX during pregame? Anything interesting?

96
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:00pm

you can find it on youtube

Basically, according to Incoginito, Martin was a friend, Martin doesn't blame him and all was in the frame of friendship.

93
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:54pm

Oh, just the annual "Peyton Manning proves time of possesion to be a useless stat"-game.

22:16 - 7:31, Chargers in ToP, Broncos up 21-6 at halftime.

No matter how much you try to keep him on the bench, he's still going to get as many possesions as your QB.

95
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:57pm

The "cut down the number of possessions" strategy requires a defense that can make stops.

101
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:12pm

At this point I think the Chargers would be pretty excited if they could make slows.

105
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:21pm

You can play safe on defense and take away the deep pass - and force Manning to more short passes and more runs.

You can run the ball more yourself, or use more short passes to get down the field and eat more clock that way.

94
Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 6:56pm

JJ Watt, doing what he does. Swat, force fumble, fall on ball.

Do not show your back to JJ Watt.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:02pm

Or depend on Randy Bullock on FGs.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:00pm

Watt sacks Palmer and forces, then recovers, the fumble giving the Texans possession near the Cardinals' 20. 3 incompletions later a Bullock kick is blocked.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:07pm

I've wondered: Is a FG block (partially) on the kicker? Is there such a thing as a kicker with a slow wind-up/release?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:11pm

Yes, there are a few kickers like that, but I think it's about evenly divided between bad snaps, bad holds, bad kickers, and blown blocks. My guess isvthat Bullock needs everything else to be perfect to have a chance.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:23pm

it's almost always a bad block or a slow snap/hold/placement... you can lean backwards as a kicker to make the arc steeper - but on XPs and short kicks, that's almost never an issue

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Tino (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:58pm

The only time I've really seen a blocked kick attributed to a kicker (by the commentators) is when the trajectory is too low, which is more typical on longer field goals. I've seen "blocked" kicks that were actually the result of the kicker kicking the ball directly into a player standing at the line of scrimmage...no question that's the kicker's fault there.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by EricL :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:03pm

Well, that _could_ be the holder's fault as well, if he placed the ball in the wrong spot, (probably a few inches too close to the line) but yeah - that's usually the kicker.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:13pm

Beautifully designed and executed screen to get Demayrius Thomas his second TD of the afternoon. 27-6 early third quarter. This one feels over, but after what happened in this game last year, you can't be sure I guess.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:15pm

Seriously - Zane Beadles didn't even have to make a block. You know you fooled the opponent when your lead blocker goes untouched into the endzone.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:19pm

It just feels like the momentum has been shifting to Carolina since the second quarter. Now the fumble recovery and I think the Panthers are going to take this game over from here on out.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:24pm

Jinxed it. Manning stripsacked on a rollout. Manning seems to have an extremely high fumbles per sack-rate and an almost identical lost FPSR.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:36pm

I'm not the brightest guy on Earth, and my knowledge of football strategy can be topped by Rookie-level Madden playcalling. However watching Mendenhall and Ellington run I wonder why on Earth the former gets any carries while the latter exists. Ellington just looks so much better to my eyes. Mendenhall runs into the line and is either immediately tackled, or tackled after bouncing back and losing some yards.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:56pm

To keep the other 'fresh' or because the coach thinks Mendenhall is better at running inside?
I don't watch much Cardinals football, but as a Steelers fan, I know Mendenhall is just a guy that runs into a hole and then gets tackled. That's basically all he does. He's an ok blocker.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:21pm

… And now Mendenhall fumbles on a run inside, letting the Texans back into the game.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Tino (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:10pm

Because they gave up a 1st round pick for him. Oh sorry, thought you were describing Trent Richardson vs. virtually any other RB.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:21pm

Mendenhall unconscionably fumbles after the Texans punted away their chance of winning the game.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:07pm

You could say exactly the same thing about Green-Ellis and Giovani Bernard in Cincinnati.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:42pm

The blocking assignment that left rookie RB Dennis Johnson trying to block Jonathan Abraham 1-on-1 is one they should probably rethink. Keenum is sacked for a loss of 10 almost immediately.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:47pm

"and this is the way Carolina Panthers win football games."....except, of course, when the Hawks beat them. And after the Rams beatdown of Indy, the Hawks don't look quite so flawed sitting at 9-1.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by EricL :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:59pm

The Rams are another one of those teams with an "underrated" defensive front. Had Bradford been healthy, they probably beat the Hawks.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Rhombus (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:29pm

Except that the Rams crushed none other than Indianapolis, the one team that Seattle lost to. The NFL is a weird place this year, it seems more impossible to predict than usual.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:20pm

The Rams' destruction of the Colts needs to be thrown out as experimental error.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Jake (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:48pm

The win makes the Rams the current holder of the NFL title belt, right? It started with Baltimore, Denver held it for much of the season until Indy took it away, and now it goes to St. Louis.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:55pm

Niners dead last in passing yardage. Their two dimensionality is being exposed by the better teams in the NFL.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:56pm

So on 3rd-and-8 the Chargers center snaps the ball before Rivers expects him to. It's a fumble, but Rivers quickly falls on it for a loss of 4 or so. The refs call "illegal snap" on the center: 5 yard penalty remains third down. Why didn't Del Rio decline that penalty bringing up 4th and 8? Or is that not a declineable penalty? If so why not?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:57pm

It's a penalty that prevents the snap of the ball.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:59pm

An illegal snap is a dead ball, like a false start.

But they appeared to botch the call. If that's a correct interpretation, any errant shotgun snap gives the offense a mulligan after a five-yard penalty, which is absurd on its face.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:03pm

You'd have to believe it was a double-clutch kind of thing, right? Or would that be a false start?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:03pm

As I understand it, false starts and illegal shifts and such mean that the play never took place, so the outcome is not an option.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 7:59pm

WHY IS MIKE MCCOY KICKING PAT DOWN 9?!

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:08pm

Announcers are defending it with a passion "to keep it a one score game if you miss it" and "to keep the game moving" whatever that means.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:12pm

"Keep the game moving"?! That's funny until you realize these guys are getting paid to say those things.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:43pm

Are there alternatives to the 'dick vermeil chart' to to for 1 or 2?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 6:02am

I actually thought it was Bill Walsh...?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 10:16am

Sure, but it was Dick Vermeil in the 70s.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:01pm

Keenum has had three passes which really should have been intercepted. Dansby dropped one early. Hopkins got a 20 yard reception on a pass which was tipped into the air. And at the start of the 4th Hopkins catches a 3rd and 2 which went off a DB's hands. Matt Schaub watches this and just shakes his head at fate.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:25pm

Most of Keenum's success seems to rest on the 'hurl the ball in the general vicinity of Andre Johnson' strategy. I seriously doubt he's better or even equal to Shaub. Not that it matters who's starting for the Texans' this season.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:31pm

You're underestimating his ability to spark the offense with his swagger.
He also is more mobile.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:34pm

Any swagger the Texans demonstrate is due to the presence of Ed Reed's leadersauce.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:32pm

I think Keenum does bring a bit more mobility in the pocket to the game than Schaub does. The OL has deteriorated and, in this game, Schaub would have been killed by the Cardinals' rush. Keenum has taken some sacks, but he's scrambled out of a couple situations that Schaub was going to take a loss on.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:07pm

I can't tell if the Broncos recievers are getting interfered with all the time, or simply utterly unable to handle press coverage. The offense has fallen apart since the Chargers went to that strategy.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 9:51pm

My observation is that Decker and Demaryius Thomas (but especially Decker) just give up whenever they face any significant contact. I also think that if they put forth any particular effort on contested balls, they might be more likely to get the flags they're always begging for.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:15pm

And the Niners have now lost more games at home than the Seahawks have lost on the road. Who'd have thought that going into the season? 46 yards passing? Niners have played 5 teams with winning records and only won 2 of them.

Panthers, meanwhile, look like contenders. Saints better watch their backs.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:16pm

The Chargers offense is moving tha ball but it isn't pretty. False starts, illegal snaps, sacks, fumbles, deep pass to Gates. Rince repeat.

Broncos get away with helmet to helmet hit on 3rd-and-16 which kinda-sorta illustrates my point.

Trindon Holliday muffs the punt, but recovers himself. How many fumbles does it take to take away the value of a return TD? 2?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:23pm

After another ineffective offense series the Texans punt and pin the Cardinals at their own 5. Mendenhall runs into the pile and loses the ball when he's stood up. Watt sees it at the bottom of the scrum, recovers it, and Texans get a gift and a chance to keep in the game.

Whether their now-turnstile right side of the OL can keep Keenum vertical long enough to complete a pass is questionable.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by EricL :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:26pm

Doesn't hurt to have Andre Johnson pulling miracles.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 8:28pm

There is no way that ball should have been caught by Johnson.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:18pm

Sean Lee limps off clutching his hamstring. This is bad news for Dallas.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:28pm

dammit Collingsworth Joe Frazier didn't throw right hooks.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:29pm

dupe

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:44pm

DeMarcus Ware puts on an awesome spin move and sacks Drew Brees to create 3rd and long.

Next play, Ware is on the sideline catching breathe, Brees has all day to scan the field and easily completes the pass for a first down.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 10:56pm

How on Earth did Dallas manage to burn all their timeouts before the final 2 minutes of the half?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by 3Monkies (not verified) :: Sun, 11/10/2013 - 11:40pm

So it is possible that KC could end up facing another backup QB next week, with Manning injured to the point where he needs an MRI after Liguets low shot.....

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 12:13am

You have to laugh. Dallas scores a TD, then executes an onside kick and appears to finally have some momentum. But yet another player gets injured on the kick. And then there is a horrendous offensive series including a grounding penalty which results in having to punt the ball away again.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 12:17am

And the Saints score yet another TD 3 plays later on a Brees bomb to Kenny Stills.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 12:30am

Some sort of mercy ruling is in order in New Orleans. In fact it was probably in order the moment Sean Lee went out of the game.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 12:39am

A McCown sighting!

Wondering if Brees would be removed at any point.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 10:28pm

Ugh. Man, do we really have to suffer the indignity of both Jacksonville and Tampa Bay winning in the same week?

Miami is certainly listless today (not surprising really).

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 11/11/2013 - 11:30pm

Almost got to see 2 Safeties in the same game by different teams (1 for each).

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Tue, 11/12/2013 - 12:33am

I kinda don't want to see bonus football if its going to be more of this. That seems to be drifting perilously close to masochism.

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Tue, 11/12/2013 - 12:38am

Well, the Miami offensive line (in both senses) agrees, and decides to just get off the field.

*sigh* Bucs win huh...

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 11/12/2013 - 12:44am

So, do the 2008 Detroit Lions celebrate this annual event (the final winless team getting a victory) by tapping a keg of malt liquor?

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Re: Week 10 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Tue, 11/12/2013 - 2:05pm

on the Donald Penn touchdown for Tampa Bay yesterday, he didn't maintain possession through the catch, as he lost control of the football over the crossbar.