Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

18 Nov 2012

Week 11 Open Discussion Thread

Discuss all of Week 11's football happenings in this thread.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 18 Nov 2012

239 replies , Last at 20 Nov 2012, 1:03pm by Go pats

1
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/15/2012 - 9:54pm

I can only hope the Dolphins play like this next week.

2
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/15/2012 - 11:02pm

DVOA cannot be impressed with the Bills offense.

3
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 11/15/2012 - 11:12pm

I take it FO is still on EDT.

4
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Fri, 11/16/2012 - 12:18am

There's a CB for the Dolphins named Carroll who reminds me of a former Packers CB with that last name; both have mastered the arm grab pass interference penalty.

7
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nevic (not verified) :: Fri, 11/16/2012 - 10:27am

I thought the same thing when I saw that play. I even looked up the Dolphins roster to see if somehow they signed Ahmad Carrol of the street. Maybe it's his younger brother or something...

8
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Fri, 11/16/2012 - 6:37pm

I was also wondering if they had signed Ahmad until I heard the play-by-play guy say his full name.

5
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Fri, 11/16/2012 - 12:26am

That was a pretty sweet pick. Play of the night.

6
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by johonny (not verified) :: Fri, 11/16/2012 - 12:45am

I think the Dolphins coach must be a genius because he somehow managed to hold the team together long enough to win 4 games. Clearly tonight showed they are a very, very untalented offensive football team. I would say the Dolphins are disappointing, but really it just took a while for them to play to expectations. They have limited skilled position players, a rookie QB and a massively underachieving offensive line. If Ireland keeps his job it will only be because his defensive draft picks have been able to make the team look competitive.

9
Pats transactions
by PatsFan :: Sat, 11/17/2012 - 5:40pm

As expected, Pats have activated Talib to the 53-man roster, cutting Williams to make room.

Less expectedly, they cut Deion Branch (who tweaked a hamstring in practice) and promoted Salas from the practice squad.

10
Re: Pats transactions
by asdasdadsadasd (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:55am

They don't have enough healthy WRs left (only Edelman and Slater) ... they had to ditch somebody from the roster, and picked the guy least likely to get claimed.

Maybe they will introduce the 4 TE package this week (I lost track ... did they field 4 TEs last week?) and the 5 TE ultra-pack when Hernandez is back.

11
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 1:44pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of football chat!
Instructions moved to pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

12
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:05pm

Why does FOX only show a few players of each line up?
Give linemen some love!

13
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:12pm

Texans receive the opening kickoff and take it 84 yards for a TD in under 3 minutes. Jags biting hard on Texans play action.

14
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:17pm

And Danieal Manning comes unblocked on a safety blitz when Gabbert holds the ball a split second too long. Gabbert looked to get the ball off and it fell incomplete. Both teams started mingling around like the next play was going to get going, then the ref announces it was a fumble recovered by Houston.

The review is underway.

15
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:23pm

Wow. The world hates the Jags. Texans keep the ball on the "fumble". AND Gabbert is getting his throwing arm looked at. Henne warming up on the sidelines.

16
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:25pm

The FOX announcer keeps saying that the Lions "will play coverage" and "continue to play coverage".
I think he means to say man-coverage - but the way he says it he's not making things clearer.

21
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:43pm

I think he's referring to their preference to rush 4 and play coverage with 7 rather than blitzing.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

40
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:57pm

makes sense I guess
thanks

17
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:25pm

Jeff Fisher: Poster boy for aggressive football.

18
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:33pm

Houston has 3rd and short when Schaub gets the ball knocked out of his had as the pocket collapses. He manages to fall on the ball, but it kills the drive. Texans are getting big chunks of yardage, but not consistently and their past two drives have stalled out on downs.

19
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:34pm

And on the Jag's first play after the Texans punt Henne feeds it to Blackmon in the seam and he takes it 60 yards to inside the Texans' 20.

20
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:38pm

And Blackmon catches a great throw for Henne in the end zone over Kareem Jackson, but Jackson has him blanketed on the way down, but Blackmon loses the ball as he rolls under Jackson and the ref signals incomplete.

Jacksonville doesn't challenge and tosses a TD to Marcedes Lewis on the next pass. 7-7.

22
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:53pm

And the Jags take the lead on a 67 yard pass from Henne to Shorts. Poor tackling from Houston and the Jags lead 14-7.

23
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 2:54pm

At this point the Pistol is basically the Redskins base offensive formation.

24
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:01pm

Cleveland is whipping Dallas right now. Weeden has had great protection, And defensively they're getting good pressure.

25
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:04pm

Skelton is not the Cardinals answer at QB. He's replaced by Ryan Lindley (SD State, 6th round rookie)

26
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:10pm

GB's TD pass to Finley was an oddity; they ran a screen to Starks in the right flat but at the last second Rodgers whipped a pass to Finley running free short over the middle. Buck and Aikman reckoned it was designed that way. I'm not so sure, the linemen executed the screen even down to turning the pass rush free on Rodgers and setting up in front of the back. It might have been a case quick read off Finley, if the linebackers run with him then hit the back that he's cleared space for, if they stay with the screen hit the open Finley.

27
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:14pm

As a Pats fan it's kind of killing me to see Merriweather having a very good game.

28
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:14pm

Foles with 22 passes in the first half. Nothing like protecting your rookie QB in his first start.

29
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:21pm

I just don't know if I can keep watching the NFL if they're going to call roughing the passer on plays like Brad Jones on Stafford.

That's probably an overreaction, but I don't think Stafford even fell down on the play.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

31
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:22pm

If he touched the helmet, it's an automatic call.

36
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:52pm

Except for the dozens and dozens of plays where people hit the helmet and there is no call. So no its not automatic, and if there is no intent or possibility of injury the refs need to chill out.

50
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:34pm

I don't like the penalty either. But in games I've watched, it's almost always called.

54
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:38pm

I feel like I have seen it go uncalled a ton this year, but all the crews aren't the same so that isn't necessarily inconsistent with what you have seen.

30
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:21pm

High and tight Lesean, high and tight.

32
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:24pm

I have no idea what constitutes a hit on a defenseless receiver. Pouzinsky leads with his head, hits Walter helmet-to-helmet as Walter is stretched out for the catch, and no flag.

33
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:34pm

Fairley does the lawn sprinkler move after sacking Rodgers, perhaps he's a Chuck Berry fan?

Schwartz ices the GB kicker, who misses but then misses the rekick anyway. I hate icing the kicker, however, if you're going to do it then do it early enough that you don't give the kicker a practice swing out on the field. Schwartz got away with it but I still think he's a buffoon.

123
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:11pm

There are plenty of buffoons in the NFL. Some of them escape scrutiny because they inherited playoff-calibre teams that were underperforming.

127
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:22pm

HA!

34
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:35pm

Schwarz 'iced' the kicker. Where icing means that he's given the guy a second chance because he missed it.
He missed the next one too, but I hoped he'd hit it because that 'icing' should die.

Also. The falcons (red and white) are playing the cards (white and red).

35
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:41pm

For those of you curious about Atlanta-Arizona:

Ryan threw 3 INT in Q1 (Roddy White drop, tipped pass, and poor decision under pressure). Arizona turned this into 13 points.

Atlanta comes back to score 13 in Q2 on two long drives for FGs and a defensive TD off a fumble recovery as the QB arm starts forward.

Arizona breaks another long run by Stephens-Holling to start their 2 minute drive, then settle for 3. Atlanta gets the ball back with 38 seconds and drive for a FG. 16 all at the half.

In short, Atlanta gives up too many long runs and can't convert on 3rd and short. Arizona can't convert on 3rd and anything with either QB. 0 catches for Fitzgerald so far.

37
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:52pm

Jacksonville retakes the lead on Houston with a FG on their first drive of the second half. Jags are looking really good with Henne. That the Jags are moving the ball against Houston will probably affect that +2 defensive DVOA.

38
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:53pm

Weeden looks like the First Prince of the Netherlands (Willem Alexander).
https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/11/18/fr2EIOF2kUCQuqsHD5o52Q2.jpg

42
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:58pm

Is 'First Prince' a title, like first in line etc. because it looks like too recent a picture for him to be the first actual prince of the netherlands,

47
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:24pm

After the Grand Monarchy Election of 1946 (after the second world war) Juliana was chosen to be the Queen of the Netherlands. She never got any children so they picked her neighbor girl Beatrix to be the queen when Juliana was taken from the throne for selling Luxembourg.
Beatrix' first son was Willem Alexander so yeah - technically he's the first prince.

39
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:56pm

The Packers are missing Clay Matthews, what is wrong with him, other than girly hair?

45
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:07pm

Tweaked hamstring.

41
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 3:57pm

Arian Foster tries to reverse field on a 3rd and 17, as he's trying to find some sort of yardage he just loses the ball. Jacksonville comes away with it but the refs are checking to see if the Jaguar who eventually recovered the ball was OOB.

Texans are not playing like the best team in the AFC.

43
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:00pm

Oh Detroit, why couldn't you play like this against the Seahawks?

44
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:04pm

Jags go up by 10 on Houston.

I'm about to find out how drunk I need to be to type like RaiderJoe.

46
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:16pm

Throwing a challenge flag on a play that is automatically reviewed is both a penalty and stops the play from being reviewed? What idiot thought up this rule?

48
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:30pm

Houston loses out on a Martin TD punt return when the Jags' punter chases him down. Schaub then tosses the easiest interception of Poulzany's career to give the Jags back the ball.

49
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:32pm

Henne tosses an 81 yard TD pass to Blackmon on 3-21.

I'm about to drink rubbing alcohol.

51
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:36pm

On the highlight, there looks to be a block in the back by a Jaguar after the catch. I don't know if the player blocked could have tackled Blackmon. But I was surprised it wasn't called.

53
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:36pm

A triple covered Blackmon who should have been tackled by at least two Texans, no less. Terrible, terrible tackling.

52
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:36pm

Stafford really hasn't looked very good at all. The GB line also looks atrocious.

55
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:40pm

Saturday in particular looks like he's done, he's losing to power and losing to speed.

56
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:41pm

Romo in the pocket about to get sacked just spiked the ball. He was flagged, correctly, for intentional grounding. The after some protracted whining the refs picked up the flag. I wonder how they're going to rationalize that blunder.

57
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:45pm

Every time I see Stafford with his beanie hat on it looks like he's about to say, "Dude, do you know where I can get some pot?".

58
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:49pm

Houston scores to cut the Jags lead to 7. Of course they moved with no sense of urgency while in the red zone so now they have to rely on their defense to stop the Jags (something they've been incapable of doing all game) and then try to get their own TD to tie it up.

The Texans chose a really bad day to have their defense revert to 2010.

63
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:57pm

Is Joseph playing?

59
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:50pm

Looks like TB got jobbed there. Muscle Hamster had a TD but fumbled right after he crossed the plane, the refs rule a fumble and touchback. Replay was apparently not conclusive, but it looked pretty obvious that he crossed the plane with possession.

62
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:54pm

Agreed, looked pretty conclusive to me.

60
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:52pm

Oh no, Christmas diamond commercials have started.

124
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:14pm

And those are worse than the Christmas Lexus/Mercedes-Benz ads? It might less to get that diamond...

125
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:21pm

At least a car has utility.

61
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by gryfyn1 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:53pm

It was atrocious, it bad enough to get the call wrong live, but to ignore an obvious TD on replay is unforgivable, They really need to end the Lockout and get the regular refs back these replacements are terrible.

64
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 4:58pm

Falcons finally punch the ball in the end zone on a first and goal from the 1. Now up 23-19. Cardinals have plenty of time if they can break some successful runs as they could in the first half or if they punt and see if Atlanta turns it over again.

65
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:00pm

Scary moment in Houston. A Jags DB dives into the pile and hits his own man head-first. You can see him go limp on the pile. He gets up and walks off with help from the training staff, but, eesh, that could have been horrible.

66
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:04pm

Absolutely inexcusable play call by the Browns on 4th and goal from the 1 dialing up a fade with the game on the line. Inexcusable.

67
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:04pm

Houston ties it up on Schaub's third TD pass and Graham's second TD reception. Jags get the ball back needing a FG to win with 1:34 left and two TOs.

68
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:06pm

And the play gets delayed in Houston as the clock operator apparently forgot to turn off the clock after an incompletion on 2nd down. Clock went to 0:00.

There is home field advantage and then there is that.

69
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:10pm

Atlanta turned it over again. 3 tipped passes for INT. However, defense gets a 4 and out. Now trying to run the clock down and avoid making yet another INT.

70
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:11pm

Ed Hochuli doesn't know that grabbing the hair is not a horse-collar tackle. One play and 15yards later, Cleveland scores go-ahead TD.

78
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:20pm

According to nfl rules, the hair is part of the jersey. Which means you can tackle a guy by the hair.

The horsecollar rule was extended in 2006 to include the back of the jersey. Hence, grabbing the player by the hair is grabbing the player by the back of the jersey and in this case, a horse collar.

Guns made the right call.

90
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:35pm

Nope. Hair pulling during a tackle is completely legal.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=311120033

94
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:40pm

Thanks for clarifying. The broadcaster had it wrong then.

Edit: so is it illegal or not?

101
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:55pm

Not.

The guy above is confused about what a horse-collar tackle actually entails. Yes, hair is part of the uniform. But the penalty is not for pulling on the uniform, it's gripping on the inside of the uniform or pads and pulling. There's absolutely no problem with gripping the outside of the runner's uniform and pulling.

108
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:09pm

It is not illegal to tackle by the hair. For that play specifically it is clear that the tackle was finished by the hair. It's unclear in replay whether the tackle began with a horse collar. He's reaching through the hair and grabbing something before he slides his hand out to the hair. Whether that something is the pads, the outside of the jersey or a handle surgically attached to the neck I have no idea since all that hair is in the way.

196
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonsilver :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:01am

That's what I saw, too...

71
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:11pm

Houston's defense holds and forces a Jags punt. On the very first play after the punt Schaub connects to Johnson for a big gain putting them within FG range.

I am so very drunk.

73
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:16pm

I was thinking, "Game over." But then I remembered Houston's special teams DVOA.

72
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:14pm

Falcons actually run for a 1st down. At the 2 minute warning with Cardinals out of TOs. 3 kneeldowns should end this fiasco before it becomes a debacle.

74
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:16pm

The snapper false starts on the Texans FG kick to win it pushing them back, and forcing a rekick.

Graham shanks the kick about as badly as you can miss without getting blocked.

On to OT.

And more drinks.

75
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:16pm

Browns get a little luck on a horse collar PF that looked to be hair only. Take advantage with a great pass by Weeden.

And a big forearm to helmet PF on Cleveland.

79
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:21pm

Hair is considered part of jersey, and this a penalty

113
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:46pm

Still not true.

126
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:21pm

Definitely not true.

197
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonsilver :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:04am

See 108 above

76
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:18pm

Cleveland killed themselves with penalties today.

77
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:18pm

I haven't seen much of Stafford this season prior to today, but I came away thoroughly unimpressed. The guy didn't look like a top-10 QB, much less top-5. Was this game just an aberration?

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

80
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:24pm

The same guy who passed for 5000 yards and 40+ TDs last year?

81
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:25pm

Key phrase: "this season".

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

83
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:29pm

Yo do realize what website you are on right? I am guessing you voted for AL Caberera for MVP too?

Yards and TDs don't tell you much without information about play number and selection.

82
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:27pm

IMO no. He has a great receiver, and is bailed out quite a bit by that. He had great fantasy stats last year so he must be good right? :)

To me he looks about 10th? Same general level of Romo/Schaub/Flacco/et cetera.

84
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:30pm

Is anybody - anybody? - calling Stafford a top 5 quarterback?

86
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:31pm

Mrs. Stafford?

88
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:33pm

Depends. When did she start drinking?

91
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:36pm

I think that was the consensus opinion among among the NFL punditocracy after (and during) last year. Something like:

Rodgers/Brees/Brady
E. Manning/Newton/Stafford

They don't get much deeper in their analysis than Yards and TDs and Stafford always looks good in those because DET throws a ton and has a great WR.

114
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:49pm

Stafford is #6 in DYAR and #9 in DVOA right now.
Last year he was #5 in DYAR and #10 in DVOA.

There was a big drop after the top 3 last year.

132
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:50pm

Stafford isn't 6/9 and 5/10. Stafford in the DET offense with the DET WRs and DET OL is 6/9 5/10.

I think you swap him with some QBs people think are pretty average and there would be no drop off.

Look at how little drop off there is to Shaun Hill.

135
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 8:00pm

Yeah, you know, we remember what the Lions' passing game was like before Stafford showed up. It wasn't very good.

146
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:30pm

Joey Harrington wasn't very good.

128
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:24pm

The Cards have a great WR and yet still suck in passing. You can't give all tne credit to receiver.

133
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:52pm

??? WHy not. I am not comparing Stafford and Skelton. It isn't inconsistent to say Stafford produces at a 5, but is really a 12 because he has CJ, and to say that Skelton produces at a 28 but is really a 40 because of LF.

That is an entirely reasonable and consistent position.

168
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:32pm

No, what you were saying was that Stafford was no better than Shaun Hill at QB, when objective performance proves otherwise. My point was that WR performance is much more sensitive to QB quality, as any should know just from watching Brady, Manning, Brees, and Rodgers should know.

175
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:18pm

At no point did I say that. I said Stafford is like the 10th-12th best QB, do you really think that's what Shaun Hill is?

I am sorry Stafford is the best QB in the league. Happy now?

211
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by apbadogs :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 9:13am

Newton...LOL.

85
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:30pm

For the purposes of OT, if on the first possession there is a play with two turnovers, has each team had a possession?

87
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:32pm

Yes.

89
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:33pm

Houston takes the ball on the KO in OT and drives it deep into Jags territory. Cox from JAX breaks up what would be a game-winning TD to Andre Johnson on 3rd down. Houston settles for a FG. JAX has the ball now w/ a chance to tie or win.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:38pm

This is killing me. I can only watch the Colts once a year as it is, and now instead of the NE-INDY game I get Dallas-Cleveland in OT. Really? Just score someone!

93
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:40pm

And, who was that that wanted to take me up on my offer: I'll take the over for 17 points in the first quarter of the NE/Indy game.

95
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:44pm

Miles Austin got away with one there. He caught a ball ran two steps with it and fumbled but lucked out when a ref blows it dead making it not reviewable.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:47pm

JAX ties it up w/ a FG. So, it's now sudden death in OT, but with 4:21 left.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:49pm

And Schaub throws an INT to put the Jags almost into FG position.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:50pm

The decision to go for it by Jacksonville right there has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:56pm

I have to admit I didn't understand it either but maybe he just figured they couldn't stop the Texans anyway.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:08pm

He didn't have to stop them, if he punted down to the 10 yard line there would be only 2 minutes left and the Texans didn't have any time outs. I think the coach is just so stupid to realize the a tie is half a win. Instead he thought that he'd rather have a %10 chance of converting a 4th and 10 than play for the tie. Utterly moronic.

100
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:53pm

Henne overthrows the received on 4th down. Danieal Manning almost intercepts it. I don't know if he intended to not pick it knowing it was 4th down, or if he just wiffed, but it hit him right in the cup.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:56pm

Ouch. I wouldn't have done THAT intentionally.

102
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Ima Pseudonym (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:55pm

At what point would it become rational for NE to onside kick every time? The odds of a successful recovery seem much better than the odds of a db not interfering on a long pass play.

109
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by ima_pseudonym (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:16pm

Well maybe not yet then.

110
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:18pm

Well, defense worked well there. I knew the Colts, in the end, would have no shot, but giving up punt return and interception returns for TDs is making it too easy for NE.

117
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:56pm

Onside kicks are much more likely to be successful when they are unexpected.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html

This article suggests that the surprise onside kick is an underrated play. But doing an onside kick every time would lead to a <20% success rate. Hard to imagine that's a good idea.

121
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Jimmy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:06pm

But imagine how effective a normal kick could be if you onesided all the time!!!!!

104
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:56pm

Andre Johnson takes a screen for 40+ yards and a TD to win it in OT for Houston.

I fly across the Atlantic in about 4 hours. This may end with a blurb on "NEws of the Weird" on CNN.

105
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 5:59pm

Everybody in the AFC is sad after the Jags didn't upset Houston. All of the good teams were hoping that Houston would lose to improve their playoff standings and all of the bad teams were hoping that the Jags would win, so they could get a better draft pick.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:22pm

By that logic, 1/8 of the AFC is not sad (Houston and Jags).

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:55am

I suspect the Jags are sadder than anybody else.

111
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:23pm

Dear Broncos,
If you continue to employ a midget as a punt returner, he will continue to fumble the ball.

171
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Dragon Pi (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:01pm

His height has nothing to do with his propensity to fumble. Also, most little people don't like to be called midgets.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:32pm

No beard, no battleaxe, I guess he's a hobbit.

180
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:47pm

Just make sure he doesn't drop the Precious.

200
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonsilver :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:14am

There are enough serious injuries in this sport already...

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:34pm

Interesting. I didn't know the defense could decline a 10 second runoff.

119
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:01pm

Was that at the end of regulation in the Dallas game? If so, I noticed there was no runoff, but didn't know Cleveland declined it. Wondered if it was still a rule, but couldn't figure a reason why it wouldn't be.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:05pm

57 seconds before half time in Oakland. Brees was penalised for intentional grounding. Oakland accepted the penalty but declined the ten second runoff.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:28pm

That's because they knew they'd need the time after allowing the Saints to score.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:51pm

Anybody know what's up with Chandler Jones? He was out of the game by the time I was switched away from the Cowboys/Browns OT game.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 6:53pm

They were working on his right ankle before they walked him off the field, he wasn't limping very much.

122
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:10pm

Ridiculous overturn in Oakland. Streater catches the ball, takes two steps with it, tries to switch hands and fumbles when hit. Called a fumble on the field, overturned on replay. Not quite as egregious as Polamalu vs. the Colts in the playoffs all those years ago, but if Streater hadn't caught the ball then add me to the list of people who don't know what the NFL considers a catch.

Announcer: "This is why replay is good." What, so perfectly obvious plays can be unjustly overturned?

129
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:34pm

Luck gets the ball knocked out and fumbles.
One play later it's Brady to Gronk for a TD.

What is the points after turnover ratio of the Patriots? Something tells me they score a lot after turnovers.

131
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:46pm

Because they score a lot generally?

Are you trying to say they score disproportionately more than other teams? I doubt that is true if you adjust for the overall ability of the offense.

141
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:09pm

yes, it looks to me they score a lot after the other team fails to score - proportionally.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:34pm

Well, Pats have outscored Colts 31-3 since I started watching. Defense still isn't all that inspiring, but 14 points off turnovers + kickoff return TD make it seem like Pats are running away with this one.

But I have to ask myself, when is a lead big enough to feel comfortable? Apparently "21 points + late 3rd quarter" is not enough. Not with Reggie Wayne on the field.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 7:53pm

Another pick six for the Pats' defense.

I literally cannot remember the last time the Pats had two INTs returned for TDs on the same day. Was it 2004? If it's happened since Ty Law left, I don't remember it. And I would be extremely surprised if it has happened since Asante Samuel left.

Hmm...well, there was that Wilfork pick 6. Somehow that seems like it's in a different category.

Edit: well, "different category" includes the fact that he was stopped 35 yards short of the end zone. Heh heh.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 8:21pm

Ty Law and Otis Smith each returned an interception for a score against the Panthers in Week 17 of 2001.

Coincidentally, Troy Brown also had a punt return touchdown in that game.

136
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 8:12pm

Lloyd doesn't look very comfortable motioning in to play tight end.

137
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 8:14pm

Wow! Great INT by Leonard, scooping the ball off the ground... and costing his team 20 yards of field position.

140
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 8:26pm

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The announcers didn't even comment how idiotic that was on 4th down. Of course, I'm sure Leonhard was thinking about padding his stats there so next time he is up for a new contract, he and his agent can point to the fact that he had "x" interceptions this year instead of "x-1" interceptions.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 5:15am

Watching it live, I got very annoyed because as the "crafty veteran" he's supposed to know better. But my thoughts are that he just lost track of the reality of the situation, rather than consciously deciding to make exactly the wrong decision in order to pad his stats. As another poster mentioned, I think the default reflex action for most defensive backs in most situations is to make the interception when possible. Is it a really bad choice in situations like that? Sure. Have there been a lot of instances of DB's not making that error? Once again, yep.
But I'm more than willing to believe that a dumb tactical decision at that point in the game is at least as likely to come from a heightened sense of urgency as from a calculated decision to influence future contract negotiations.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:19pm

is it:
- he's not aware that it's smarter to just let the ball hit the ground?
- is it indeed stat padding?
- is it belief in his ability to walk it back more than the LOS?

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:40pm

Did you see the play? It was a diving interception, after which he was touched down immediately. So it wasn't the third option. Since it was 4th and 14 and Leonhard is a veteran safety, I have to believe it's not the first option. So that leaves the second option as the most likely one.

155
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:50pm

Seems to me that it's far more likely that he simply wasn't thinking of what down it was than that he was consciously thinking "I'm going to pad my stats here even if it costs my team 20 yards."

A rule of thumb in judging human behavior is to prefer "stupid" over "evil" when presented with both alternatives.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:27pm

I would call it selfish, not evil.

Did you see the play? I don't think so; I'm sure you were watching the Patriots. If you were watching it, I doubt you would think that he didn't know it was 4th down.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:52am

I didn't see the play. I don't know how that's relevant.

When a player is in the middle of a play, his primary instinct is to catch the ball.

I don't know why you're so sure that he knew exactly what the down and distance are, but consciously decided to put his personal stats ahead of the good of his team. But I think you're just making all of this up.

People make mistakes all the time. I have seen a lot of defenders try for picks on fourth down before. I've yet to see a defender intentionally drop one. Yes, that's the right move, but the message hasn't got out yet. Blame the coaches.

As for the distinction between "selfishness" and "evil", I tend to equate the two.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 2:04am

You don't see how seeing an actual play is relevant? OK then. That explains a lot.

But yes, you are right. I am making this up. As was the other poster above who made the first comment about this. We conspired to make this up together just to annoy you. You got us.

And you've never seen a defender intentionally drop an interception on fourth down? I have, although not often. It's kind of the same thing as the idea that you should knock down a Hail Mary instead of trying to catch it. (And yes, there obviously are times when catching it makes more sense than trying to knock it down.) Have you never seen anyone try to knock down a Hail Mary instead of catching it? Really?

By the way, you can see a clip of that play here, starting at about the 2:25 mark: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000097168/GameDay-C....

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:44am

No, I don't see how watching the play is relevant for judging your mind-reading abilities.

You were not making a comment about how the guy played. You were making a comment about his motivations. You stated, using a poor approximation of sophisticated logic, that there were only three possible reasons for him to make that interception, and that using your process of elimination, you were going to eliminate two of them and conclude that the player only cared about his stats.

How is it relevant for me to see the play? You're not saying anything that would be supported or debunked by watching the play.

The first poster made an objective comment about the guy making a pick that cost his team 20 yards. That's not a comment that "annoys" me at all. What "annoys" me is when somebody watching a game on TV decides that he can read a player's mind.

Wow, now that I've seen the interception, I'm just overwhelmed by the information it provides me about this player's motivations. Gosh, that really supports your contention brilliantly.

Not.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 8:23pm

What's so amazing to me is that the Patriots scoring explosion has been caused primarily by their DEFENSE!

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:29pm

Please no. Not the bumblebee uniforms again. Ach! My eyes.

149
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:34pm

These are not the bumble bee unis.
These are the escaped prisoners unis.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:55pm

I don't care what you call them. They're painful to watch.

164
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:08pm
147
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Alternator :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:32pm

So, interesting question here. Which is going to come out better on DVOA, the Redskins offense or the Patriots offense? Patriots offense was practically unstoppable against a really terrible defense (24.1% DVOA), while the Redskins did pretty well against a defense that DVOA respects (-2.4% DVOA).

I'm thinking it'll be the Patriots, that the Redskins will show up as very good but not otherworldly, but the Patriots did have some excellent field position due to turnovers--then again, they mostly stopped gaining yards when they had the ball because they ran out of field.

148
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:33pm

That's good playcalling.
Have questions about our backup QB? Here's an answer.

152
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:44pm

Maybe more likely questions about the Ravens' secondary.

151
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:43pm

Did that just happen?

154
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:47pm

I watch SNF on the online SNF extra site and whenever they promo the site on the broadcast it confuses the shit out of me, looks like two mirrors facing each other.

156
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:51pm

Dude's making a cross on his chest for a 26 yard field goal.

158
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:54pm

He would have missed, except that Jesus loves him.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:53pm

Maybe it's because I have pale skin, but those unis look to me like they're wearing shirts and socks with nothing in-between.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:04pm

The white guys do look like they're not wearing trousers.

It's like Zap Branagan from Futurama, I can never work out whether he's supposed to be wearing pants or not. (I think he isn't and it might be a play on the first series of Star Trek the Next Generation which had blokes walking about in short skirts in what was supposed to be futuristic sexual equality but just looked ridiculous.)

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Dragon Pi (not verified) :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:08pm

Zap isn't wearing pants. That's really clear with jokes such as Kif having to follow him up the ladder and turning away after presumably seeing his balls.

Oh, and as a side note, I appreciated that they put men in the short skirts on TNG. It looks weird to you because it's outside of what you're used to seeing, but I thought it was rad that they decided to do it because it was the network that put the women in the short skirts in the original series and they were making a statement by putting the men in short skirts, too. And then they mostly made the men and women's uniforms both much more utilitarian than a short skirt would be.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 4:22am

I think there was even an episode in which Zap redesigned the uniform tunic, which made Kif groan even more. Gotta love Zap. He sure does.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 9:55pm

Paul Kruger really isn't that good. I think its Mike Adams who kinda sucks.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:02pm

That certainly was a bad play, but Adams has been much improved of late. More so on the run than pass, though.

161
Instant karma's gonna get you
by PatsFan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:00pm

Looks like BB got bitten for playing starters deep into garbage time -- reports coming out of Boston that Gronk has a broken forearm.

169
No-the defense is just that bad
by Athelas :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:35pm

Reports are it happened on the last extra point

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Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by Purds :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:11pm

Yup, so I am not sure how one could connect the injury to playing late. No one changes the extra point grouping just because you score late in a blow out. I did think the game with about 5 minutes left coud have been a great time to get the backup NE QB some significant snaps. I think they were up 28 at that point. But, to each his own. As a Colts fan, I had no problem with Brady still in there, and as he wasn't being pressured, why not throw the ball a little? He's smart enought to just fall to the ground if there is an injury threat.

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Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:15am

I'm glad you have a mature attitude. So many people are out there playing the "running up the score!" argument. But I think it bothers fans a lot more than it bothers the players.
I didn't feel comfortable with the Pats lead until there was about 5 minutes left in the game. This defense is very unreliable. And Luck is already a very good QB. When the Pats keep their starters out there, it's more a sign that they respect the other team than anything else.

The last time Belichick cared about this issue of appearances, he put Matt Cassel in early in the 4th quarter. Cassel promptly threw a pick-6, which led to Brady coming back on the field.

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Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by Purds :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 3:00am

I think, interestingly, that fan opinion depends on if your team is in the game or not. As you and I are fans of the teams playing today, I think it's easy to see that they should just do what they need to do. When I personally am a bystander fan, I get a little less generous -- sometimes when my team is not involved I think less beneficently that teams do run up the score and take needless chances with players, or better yet, don't give backups, especially the back up QB, enough reps. But, certainly, it seems when my team is concerned, I am unconcerned with the issue. I don't think it's a good thing that it bothers me when my team is not involved, but I do realize that somehow it seems less charitable when I watch some other team getting pounded. Weird, but true for me.

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Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by RedDog (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 6:44am

"I didn't feel comfortable with the Pats lead until there was about 5 minutes left in the game"

Are you serious? I mean, did you watch the third and fourth quarter? They led by 28 points.

It's one thing to continously bash the Patriots defense by saying they play like crap and they are easy to beat deep, but after the half, the Colts couldn't do anything. Sure, rookie qb and a young Colts team which will only get better, but your comment is slightly off. It's not like the Seahawks game where they led by 6.

Regarding Gronk's injury: I believe running up the score or generally acting disrespectful yields bad karma. They should have advanced it inside the 20, the kneel four times and turn it over on downs when the score was 52-24 with four minutes left. And yes, I yelled that at my TV before they scored.

Belichick is a smart coach, but this running up the score thing is silly and stupid (Colts and Patriots will likely meet in the future, with a better Colts team ... why give extra motivation?)

210
Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by Athelas :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 7:59am

Oh, you believe in karma. Well, there's really no rational response to that.

212
Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by asdasdadsadasd (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 9:34am

If you don't believe in it

... well why give the other team extra motivation for the next meeting
... why expose players to injury (don't tell me kneel downs are dangerous
... why expose yourself to outside criticism for running up the score
... why expose yourself to criticism from your own players (who may or may not agree you keep hammering your defenseless opponent)
... why not pin the other team inside their own 15 at the end of the game. Is there anything (including a kickoff) which is more secure to win the game.

You know ... 52 points is plenty. No one is gonna rip you for that.

And yes, I believe in bad karma. Like the 2007 Patriots keeping the foot on the pedal only to serve as the butt of all jokes at the end of the year. Or the year the Colts hammered the opponents, Manning set then TD record (49) only to flame out in the play offs.

There are psychological implications to such decisions which may not be obvious.

213
Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by In_Belichick_We... :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:14pm

Please......

Do you really think players will try harder or something? The extra motivation is a joke. These are professional players and coaches that give 100% all of the time. I never understand the "extra motivation" comment.
Hopefully the Colts will obtain extra motivation and be more competitive next time. I'd much prefer 60 minutes of Patriot football to watch instead of 30 or 40 minutes.

237
Re: No-the defense is just that bad
by RickD :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:57am

"Are you serious? I mean, did you watch the third and fourth quarter? They led by 28 points."

Well, the first time the lead got to 28 points, Luck connected on a 46-yard bomb to score a TD. Was that supposed to make me feel better?

I'm still wondering how the Pats are supposed to burn clock without moving the ball down the field. And really, the Colts are well-paid professionals. It's their job to stop the offense, not Belichick's.

182
Re: Instant karma's gonna get you
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:10am

Oh not this nonsense.

Of course, in retrospect, whenever a player gets injured you can say "He shouldn't have been in on that play." But it's not like the Pats have an extra set of players that they can bring in to play special teams. The team plays as a unit. They need to have the same people out there as much as possible.

Aside from bringing out Brady at the end, or anybody who's health is questionable, I don't know what you want the Pats to do. Gronk is one of the toughest guys on the team. Why would anybody expect him to break his arm blocking for a PAT?

Nothing more than 20-20 hindsight.

165
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:08pm

Good for John Harbaugh. The offense and defense might stink, but the Ravens have great special teams. I guess that's the benefit of having a special teams coach as a head coach.

166
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:11pm

I thought there was a pretty obvious block in the back on the outside contain guy nearest the sideline.

201
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:19am

Yes that was missed, but the game was decently officiated. It's unfortunate that a foul on a pivotal play was missed, but it is unfair to judge that based on coincidental outcome. At least a few calls are going to be missed every game, and that's just the way it goes while they rely so much on humans in real time for those judgments. And one of then 10 guys not blocked in the back could have made a play there as well.

167
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:20pm

Steelers outside linebackers are dropping in their flats, but don't make it to the sidelines.
Noticed 3 times already.

Keisel has a really weird pre-snap stance. Almost like a frog.

170
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 10:56pm

If the Steelers tried a short passing attack Leftwich would probably end up killing a receiver.

174
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:16pm

The Steelers D is playing pretty well, but what is up with their lack of takeaways? It's a year-and-a-half long trend now. It really makes it harder without the "splash" plays every once in awhile.

177
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:28pm

Lack of effective pass rush.

179
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:46pm

3rd and 2 from the 4 down 13- 7. That's two runs not a fade your qb can't throw then a fg.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/18/2012 - 11:58pm

Nice play Kruger. You're a pass rushing specialist, its 3rd and long, the Steelers leave you unblocked, and you barely lay your hands on one of the least mobile QBs I've ever seen. Tremendous.

183
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:11am

NBC just used Weezer's Hashpipe to go to commercial. This is even better than Voldemort becoming M.

186
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:22am


This is even better than Voldemort becoming M.

Chuckle. Hadn't thought about it that way. But you're right. Best transition since Gandalf became Magneto. (Or was it the other way around?)

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:36am

The Knight, or Wizard and Mutant Again

185
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:20am

Oh the irony. Foote called for tripping.

190
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:26am

Particularly since he tripped without any apparent contact being made.

192
Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:39am

I believe I read a Joseph Heller novel with an aptronym like that; however, I think that might be more ironic in the Morissette sense.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonsilver :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:31am

Unfair making reference to superb literature/best seller from 50 years ago...

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:47am

Catch 22 only becomes more relevant with time.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:24am

Flacco is a moron. He left a 5 seconds on the clock on the two last plays. Basically gives Pittsburgh an extra time out, now they have to run another play before the 2 minute warning. How hard is it to snap the ball at one?

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:23am

And Pittsburgh gives it right back with the offsides.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:28am

Hard to blame them for that. The RG jumped early and drew them. The refs just missed it.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:58am

Agreed, Ravens were fortunate to get those two calls at the end. Of course, they've been incredibly lucky to be 8-2 at this point. Probably the worst Raven team since 2007 in my opinion.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 3:36pm

Says something about how good the Ravens have been over the last x years that in a down year, it's completely conceivable they'll get a first round bye.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Mash Wilson :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 8:42pm

True, but only because their division is so pathetic.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 10:36pm

I don't know if its that pathetic, you have one above average team, one average team, one below average team, and the Ravens. Is there any division in the AFC that is much better?

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:24am

It looked like Leftwich got hurt on that Ihedigbo sack.

(That's a phrase I thought I'd never type, "Ihedigbo sack")

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RavenJim (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:04am

FO said Ravens' special teams were in the top 10 of all-time through 10 weeks of an NFL season. Will be interesting to see where they rank after today. Missed a FG, but coverage teams were dominant and Jones provided the TD.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by bengt (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:58pm

What's even more scary, they are historically great while being below average on punt returns.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:06am

Any Given Sunday is going to have difficulty this week. Only one Vegas underdog won today, and really, "Jets over Rams" isn't that interesting. I would go with "Jags take Texans to OT."

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 1:48am

They could do Steelers-Ravens since briefly the Steelers were favored prior to information on the severity of Roethlisberger's injury coming out. But that'd be boring too and kind of not in the spirit of the thing.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 3:38pm

I think everyone pretty much expected a low-scoring Ravens win. No Roethlishotdog, and the Ravens play like shit on offense on the road.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 10:17pm

Man Kaepernick looks awesome. I know its just one quarter, buts he's doing it against a historically great Bears D. So long, Alex Smith?

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 10:46pm

Doesn't look like it's so much Kaepernick as it is the combination of the 9ers being able to take the Bears out of the pass defense they want to play and they have no answer for #85. Kaepernick is just making the throws that are there, and don't appear to be going anywhere.

4dp5u

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Tyler (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 10:24pm

On the one hand I'm pumped about the Kaep so far... on the other hand I feel awful for alex smith. Hopefully he retires this year and joins Harbaughs staff or something feel-good. More likely; he ends up with a team like the Raider or KC or something equally miserable.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by young curmudgeon :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:11pm

A bit of advice: don't fall in love with a substitute QB based on one game, much less one half. There are perhaps dozens of examples of guys coming having a good game or two, the fans deciding that this is the savior they've been waiting for, and reality setting in after a few more games. I lived in the Philadelphia area during the never-to-be-forgotten Bobby Hoying era, but couldn't stage enough interventions to keep my friends from making this mistake. Kaepernick may turn out to be the real thing, but I wouldn't trade Smith for a sixth-round draft choice and a bag of magic beans quite yet.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Tyler (not verified) :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:13pm

I can't recall a backup coming in against a historically good D and having a first half this good (although it's probably happened).

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Kurt :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:49am

"Historically good defense" might be pushing it, but I'm not sure the was even the most impressive and surprising performance by a backup qb against a very good defense this weekend.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:39pm

I might have a reputation in this non geographic vicinity for being a niners homer and I've defended Kaepernick but I just didn't see a performance like tonight being on the cards. Remember that the Bears stacked the line early and put the game on his back.

I still think we'll see Smith next week but it's nice to think that the niners might have a future qb.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:14am

I think tonight is a near-perfect example of how much easier it is for a young qb, against a good defense, to play at home. All those first half audibles, and terrific protection, become much more unlikely at Soldier Field.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:30pm

Started tonight's game 3 points behind in my FF game. My opponent had no players left. I have Matt Forte and Robbie Gould.

It occurs to me that I might be in deep trouble.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:31pm

a McCown sighting!!

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:15am

At some point you have to just take the safety.

edit: apparently not...i thought that "forward pass" was from inside the end zone

2nd edit: and apparently he was down by contact before the "pass"

Well, replay worked this time.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by John Courage :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 2:59am

That's gotta be the most absurd play I've ever seen.

So many questions:
.
1. Why did Rachal just stare at the ball for a good second while it's at his feet?

2. How on Earth can Rachal make a forward pass by having a teammate punch the ball out of his hands?

3. If Rachal did attempt a "pass", is it really grounding? I thought he was outside the pocket (although it was complete chaos with nothing resembling a pocket, so I'm' not sure). And if it is a Rachal "pass", then isn't Marshall arguably a nearby eligible receiver since, you know, he's the one punching it forward?

4. Rachal was in the end zone for the whole duration of this silliness, so how could it be intentional grounding *outside* the end zone?

5. Really Harbaugh, you need to challenge this? You're not content to let the Bears punt from their own 1 on 4th and forever up 23 with 9 minutes left? (OK, I don't really begrudge him this decision. Why not make the refs get this right and 9 minutes is theoretically enough time to cut a three TD deficit ignoring how utterly hopeless the Bears offense was all night.)

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymous- (not verified) :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:20am

Is Gabe Carimi the worst starter in all of the NFL?

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:49am

Is Blaine Gabbert still a starter?

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 9:31am

I'm looking at you, King Dunlap.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Ender (not verified) :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 12:41am

Game played out about how I thought it would. No way the Bears score offensively on a good defensive team and they are pretty average defensively against teams that can run and not turn the ball over. I think they lose this matchup pretty consistently even with Cutler who isn't exactly a great QB.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:20am

oh hey all just popping in to say ck looked fucking great tonight

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:48am

That he did. And Harbaugh did little to reassure Alex Smith that his job will be waiting for him when he gets better.

I'm not sure it should be.

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Re: Week 11 Open Discussion Thread
by Go pats (not verified) :: Tue, 11/20/2012 - 1:03pm

Well he has not been cleared by the doctors plus he probably wants the saints to not know who to prepare for. He certainly was impressive and I hope he keeps getting better. Future looks bright.

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