Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

24 Nov 2012

Week 12 Open Discussion Thread

Discuss the week's NFL games, if you wish.

Posted by: Tom Gower on 24 Nov 2012

228 replies , Last at 27 Nov 2012, 12:15am by jonnyblazin

1
Re: Lions-Texans
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:03pm

Nice pre-game story about former Lions/Browns RB Jerome Harrison's recovery from brain cancer surgery. The man has the heart of a lion, even if he's not wearing the uniform. Wish him well in his rehab!

2
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by rfh1001 :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:06pm

Ow! I want to watch that Suh kick in the nuts again. It was *probably* not intentional. Probably. These guys are very aware bits of their bodies are.

14
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:35pm

The kick may have been unintentional, but that second double horsecolla takedown was definitely dirty.

17
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:49pm

Except that it's not a horse-collar to pull down by the front collar.

3
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:18pm

Walt Coleman gets the "screw the facts; I'm not overturning myself" award for why the guy who makes the review shouldn't be the guy making the original call. Texans fans should be giving thanks to Coleman's ego.

6
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:21pm

Clear let down game for the refs. Lions are one of those teams that have to play themselves into the consistantly high expectations so they start getting the calls. A lot of teams are like that, so they've got company.

isvgm

4
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Robert Grebel (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:20pm

How in the world was there not a reverse angle for the replay review on the muffed punt? It sure looked like the Houston player touched the ball first, but there was no camera angle that showed the side of the player that might have touched the ball.

5
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymous- (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:20pm

What is this bullshit conclusive rule? Does it mean that if the refs, upon reviewing the play, are 99% but not 100% sure, then they cannot overturn? What is so sacred about their original call that it should be taken, even if after the fact, the refs decide that they are very sure but not 100% certain that it should go the other way. Why should their previous decision with much less information at all impact what the decision is after gaining as much information they can get?

48
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:12pm

You need evidence to overturn the call, so if there's doubt, the original call stays.

7
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:23pm

Has anybody ever done a statistical breakdown on which officiating crews are more likely to overturn themselves on review? It'd be interesting to see if there are any significant outliers in refs who are willing to make the "we were probably wrong the first time" call as well as ones who virtually demand sixteen notarized affidavits and the testimony of a forensic scientist or twelve to overturn?

8
Re: Lions-Texans
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:50pm

Mike Thomas giving a positive performance so far. If he keeps it up the Lions can leave Titus Young stew on the bench until he grows up or quits.

On to the next problem -- Nick Harris is a menace to the team as a punter. I wish they had re-signed Donahue rather than bring back Harris with his dead leg.

9
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:54pm

Wow, that was one hell of a catch by Johnson, staying with that tipped ball... @_@

10
Re: Lions-Texans
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 2:56pm

*Great* concentration by Andre Johnson on that pass that was tipped by Chris Houston.

11
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by BroncosGuyAgain :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:21pm

No Jeff Backus today. Also, the sun did not rise.

12
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:26pm

I *love* watching Calvin play, but I want to die when I see him having to lay out for so many passes.

13
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:33pm

This Broyles kid can play, they need to target him more.

15
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:38pm

Watching Broyles and Thomas so far today, I wouldn't want to be Titus Young. They're getting more production out of people not Megatron than I've seen in a while from the Lions.

16
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:47pm

Yet another reason im really starting to lose confidence in this coaching staff is they kept titus young on the field when broyles got healthy.

19
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:50pm

And right on cue, Schwartz makes the dumbest decision i've ever seen him make.

21
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:50pm

Throwing the challenge on a ruled TD just makes it worse. Just stupid.

116
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 4:06am

Look at it this way: if HE didn't, then Kubiak would have (if he was smart).

18
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:50pm

ARGH! There are no words! Stupid, stupid call by the refs again--but because Schwartz doesn't know the rules, he screwed the Lions over!

24
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:53pm

Ironically when Jim Harbaugh did the same thing when playing the Lions, Schwartz yelled "learn the fucking rules!" At the 49ers sideline.

34
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:01pm

So Smith's flag on Sunday wasn't the first instance of this penalty? (And Simms is even more wrong for not knowing of past instances?) Interesting.

I get the feeling that Schwartz did know the rule but threw it out of emotion/instinct. He knew immediately he was wrong; CBS caught him making the international symbol for "my bad" well before the ref announced it.

49
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:14pm

No, last year the review was conducted, Detroit's touchdown was upheld, and the penalty was that San Francisco had to start its ensuing drive from the 20 after the auto-touchback that is a kickoff from midfield. Instances like that are probably the reason for the review being disallowed, because there was effectively no penalty if the touchdown was upheld.

26
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike L. (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:54pm

So the play is automatically reviewable, but because the Lions made an illegal challenge, the play does not get reviewed? That is the STUPIDEST rule I have ever herad.

31
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:57pm

Yes, it's punishing all the fans watching because Schwartz is an idiot. But Schwartz is such a titan of idiocy to effectively punish his team with TD + 15 yards, he demands some sort of permanent recognition.

117
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 4:08am

Like a Keep Chopping Wood type award named for him? The Weekly Schwartz Flag for the worst challenge or voluntary non-challenge each week...?

27
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike L. (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:54pm

So the play is automatically reviewable, but because the Lions made an illegal challenge, the play does not get reviewed? That is the STUPIDEST rule I have ever herad.

46
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jds :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:07pm

Odds are that the rule gets rewritten in the offseason, but particularly since it has previously come up this year, there is absolutely no reason for a coach not to know the rule. Huge mistake by Schwartz.

20
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dr. Mooch :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:50pm

My god, second week in a row. This time it was just ridiculous.

23
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:52pm

I know...You'd have thought the fact that it just happened last week would have at least taught people the damn rule!

52
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:20pm

you'd think that everyone including the janitor and the bus driver is telling the head "don't throw the challenge flag on scoring plays or in overtime".
But... somewhere this season, it will happen again

118
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 4:10am

First time I ever heard of it was last week, so it was fresh in my mind. And I'm just some schmuck in Seattle who was stuffing his turkey during that play, but even I knew he shouldn't have thrown the flag. You'd think a man paid millions to ... ah, never mind, too painful. Hard enough explaining why to my wife and sons (their response: That's a freakin' stupid rule. My response: Yes.).

22
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:51pm

If there's ever been a game the public should suspect was fixed, this is it.

80
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:54pm

The refs got a couple of big, high leverage calls wrong in favour of the Texans, but they were both close calls that were difficult to make in real time.

On the other hand, they let the Lions get away with a considerable number of cheap shots and late hits (the one on Watt after one of his tipped passes by an OL was probably the most egregious).

85
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:10pm

It was said in response to A) the failure to overturn a wrong call despite reviewing it and B) failing to call a runner, whose arm from elbow to wrist and leg from hip to ankle were on the ground, down by contact. I'd disagree that your characterization applies to either.

123
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 7:13am

The failure to overturn the Quin punt fumble was a mistake, definitely. The original wrong calls . . . to me, both were quick enough that I think any officials would often make those kinds of errors in real time.

25
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:53pm

They really need to get rid of that kill the replay and charge a penalty because the coach threw the challenge flag rule. It's such an automatic reflex after so many years of how to use the challenge flag, it's unrealistic to have such an extreme penalty.

28
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:55pm

I don't understand the need to not review the play out of spite. A 15 yard penalty should be penalty enough.

32
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:58pm

I'm with all of the sane people who thinks this rule is ridiculous beyond belief.

33
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:59pm

They don't want to reward a coach for throwing a flag "illegally."

Matt Schaub's daughter might be the most cross-eyed human I've ever seen.

35
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DavidL :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:04pm

Which is fair, but it's not a reward for the coaches to do what they were required to do anyway.

79
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:50pm

Tell me about it. Poor kid.

37
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:07pm

It's probably a sop to the soothe the egos of the game officials.

29
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:55pm

I kind of agree. I didn't know the rule until Mike Smith got bit by it last week. And it has been years of working the other way.

But Schwartz is smart enough to know better after last week.

Great job by Simms not knowing the rule and even after being told during the commercial, saying he had never seen it before... even though it happened FOUR DAYS AGO.

30
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 3:55pm

It is a ridiculous rule. Just make it a 15-yard penalty and leave it at that.

65
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jimm (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:16pm

Precisely - wiping out the review makes no sense whatsoever

68
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:39pm

I wonder what the impetus to make the rule like that was? To discourage coaches from... showing up the refs by making a big show of disgustedly throwing the flag on a play that would be reviewed automatically? Or some other such nonsense thing?

71
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 8:38pm

Throwing the flag illegally is a personal foul right? I bet the rule is written with other personal fouls (roughing the passer) in mind. So the rule is actually if there's a personal foul on the defending team when a challengable TD is scored, the TD stays.

75
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:09pm

It's considered 'unsportsmanlike conduct', specifically, although I'm not sure what's unsportsmanlike to chsllenge a ruling ruling on the field under any circumstance.

77
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:30pm

maybe to stall the game or something? No the game stops anyway after a score.
I don't know.

What I do know is that this rule will be out of the rulebook in 2013 and it - among other things - cost the Lions the game.

88
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:16pm

Not only is it a stupid rule, it's not a rule at all. The penalty for a bad review request is 15 yards. That's it. There's nothing in the rulebook about canceling a review already in place. The ref just made it up on the spot so he could be smug on camera instead of just fake reviewing and upholding the play.
The closest thing the rulebook has is that a foul "that delays the next snap", like if they're lined up and you commit false start or delay of game to give your coach more time to decide, then you can't challenge.

45
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:42pm

I agree with any and all punishments for throwing a challenge flag, and anything that stops plays from being reviewed. So this was a great call. Down with replay

105
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:27am

The NFL is frankly horrible at writing rules. I am not sure why they don't hire some professionals rather than have the absurd farce that is the competition committee.

Anyone with two years of CS/logic who enjoys the NFL could write a clearer ruleset.

36
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CoachDave :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:06pm

I've said it for years, no team gets screwed by the refs more than the Lions.

I've also said they don't do themselves any favors by committing many, many dumb penalties...but honestly, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

/Not a Lion fan

40
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:12pm

I think the Lions' inclination to make dumb penalties gets the officials' brains locked into "throw the flag" mode. Basically, penalties get called based on what they expect to happen rather than on what actually does happen because of the speed of the game, and the Lions have a track record of doing dumb things that make the officials fling the flags around given the least excuse to do so.

38
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:10pm

I was wondering where Joique Bell had been hiding all game!

41
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:14pm

And there he is again!

39
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:10pm

Explain something...Quin is falling to the ground already, so Pettigrew reaches out with both hands and touches him in the back to do...what? What could that possibly accomplish? Sure, it's harsh to get a penalty for it, but why would he take the action in the first place? It just invites a flag while achieving nothing.

42
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:15pm

Because Pettigrew isn't very smart.

43
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:21pm

Justin Durant was supposed to be a liability in pass coverage, but he's been strong tofay.

44
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 4:32pm

Delmas not on the field for the last series. Please don't tell us he's injured again!

47
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:10pm

Man, looks like a tough tough loss for the Lions. But I like Justin Forsett, wish he got his play without the controversy.

50
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:16pm

Boy, that miss wasn't hard to predict.

Why do coaches continue to settle for non-sure field goals instead of actually trying?

54
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:24pm

- avoid controversy
- avoid responsibility

55
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:33pm

2-for-2 on conservatism shooting a team in the foot this afternoon

51
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:20pm

Throw the flag Schwartz!!

53
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:21pm

If this interception isn't overturned, then the conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat crowd actually have a case. That and the police ought to show up to get Coleman and his merry friends out of the stadium.

56
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:33pm

At least Houston's invisible special teams came to play.

57
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jds :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:35pm

Wonder if the players know this game can end in a tie. Because it sure looks like it is going that way at this point.

58
Houston at Detroit
by Robert Grebel (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:36pm

Time for another Marv Levy Seminar on the Wisdom of Settling for Long Field Goals.

59
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 5:48pm

A loss like that has to really test the spirit of Thanksgiving for Lions fans.

60
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dr. Mooch :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 6:04pm

I'm trying to remember a time when watching the Lions lose wasn't a central part of the Thanksgiving tradition.

61
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 6:14pm

I'm thinking that Schwartz should suspend himself for a game to make a point about responsibility. He should take Pettigrew with him.

62
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jimm (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:11pm

Robert Griffin is the best football player I have ever seen. Last game and a half

25-29 for 408yds, 5td, 0 int, 13 runs for 93 yds.

104
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:22am

2 game sample, really waiting to pass judgemnt there...

On top of that there have been players who have looked much better over a two game span.

That said he does look amazing. Of course I would be prepared for a big regression next year. Players who overperform this much in their rookie year regress more often than they progress, but everyone seems to ignore that becuase they are young. Then they are, shocked, shocked! when it happens.

128
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jimm (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 11:47am

I shouldn't have listed those stats in the post...I don't think 2 games proves anything.

But I've thought Griffin was the best football player I ever saw when he was in college. Will he have the best career - who knows, but I have never seen a football player with anywhere near his skills.

It is painful as a Viking fan to know that we are stuck with Ponder and were so close to having Griffin - ironically it was Ponder's own injury in the game with Washington last year that scuttled any chance, short of trading up, to get Griffin. Webb came off the bench to win that game, giving the Vikes win number 3.

119
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 4:18am

It's interesting because I only saw a little of the game before Thanksgiving chores stole my football time. I saw two completions by RG, one was at the LOS and run for 15 yards and the other to Garcon about 5-6 yards. I finally got to see why his game and stats differ so much from Luck's, whose average pass travels the farthest downfield. Did RG have any/many passes beyond 10 yards in the air today?

121
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 6:27am

He certainly had some. My kneejerk response to your post was to say that it was mostly his down the field stuff that had me impressed today... But that's not quite right. His down the field play (see the first touchdown, in particular) is what made me pay attention. It was his short game, especially his dumpoffs when he was under pressure that impressed me.

124
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 9:11am

He hit like a 60 yard bomb for a TD in the first half.

132
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:38pm

Is this the nascent beginning of the irrational Luck-Griffin arguments.

63
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:14pm

It's somehow fitting that this beating of the Cowboys draws so little comment.

64
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jimm (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:15pm

the Lions game today sums up the Lions…they had this game in the bag so many times is almost unimaginable that they could lose – but they did.

They took two sacks late in the game in FG range with a chance to go up two scores. They fumbled in OT in FG range, they missed a 47 yard FG.

This team plays dumb – they are a reflection of their coach.

66
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jimm (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:22pm

Suh is a thug...he kicks Schaub in the nuts and pretends it's an accident...he will probably get away with it but I think it's pretty obvious he did it on purpose

He also constantly makes plays just around the border of the rules, pushes players late at every opportunity. I also think he tackles with intent to injure frequently.

I don't think it is surprising that he was voted the dirtiest player in the league.

The Lions are wasting all sorts of talent. I think a good coach would turn this into a very good team.

67
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Lyford :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:30pm

Can someone explain to me the rationale behind the "we-were-going-to-review-the-play-anyway-but-since-you-threw-the-challenge-flag-we-won't" rule? How is the game, or either team, harmed in any way by a coach throwing the challenge flag when the officials are already in the process of reviewing it anyway?

69
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by skeptic1 (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 7:42pm

The purpose is to identify candidates for the KCW award unmistakably.

82
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:04pm

Is there any chance anyone else will challenge Schwartz for KCW this week?

72
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 8:41pm

I bet the rule is written with other personal fouls (roughing) in mind, not specially written for the coach challenge. It's just a stupid byproduct of making the illegal fla a personal foul.

125
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 9:47am

In the comments to last week's Refereeing column, someone made the point that the Texans coach should have thrown a challenge flag on the play. Costs him 15 yards on the kickoff, but locks in the touchdown, right?

126
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by troycapitated p... :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 10:43am

The highlights on nfl.com explained it as the team that throws an illegal challenge flag may not benefit from throwing the illegal flag, so a coach challenging his own team's touchdown in an attempt to prevent a review would not work, because preventing the review would be allowing that team to benefit from the illegally thrown challenge flag.

130
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:58pm

Oh, and am I correct in remembering a play sometime in the last couple seasons where a TD was scored, due to a possibly incorrect call, but was allowed to stand because the defending team had no more challenges and the automatic review only looked at a limited number of things?
The situation was something like the review will confirm the ball crossed the goal line, but will not examine whether the runner stepped out of bounds earlier in the play. Am I remembering correctly? (Was this last year's rules, different in a fundamental way?)

70
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 8:33pm

I like the decision to go for two trailing by 16. You have to at some point, anyway, and if you wait until your last touchdown and miss, then you have to get an extra score. If you're going to have to need an additional score, it's better to know it early so you can adjust your game management accordingly.

78
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JohnD (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:50pm

I don't know the context of your comment, but I think you've got your math wrong.

If you're down 15, you have the option of deferring the 2-point try to the next touchdown. If you're down 16, there's not much point in doing anything else.

81
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:59pm

They were down 16 *at the time of the conversion*.

135
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Elemen (not verified) :: Sat, 11/24/2012 - 12:17pm

Also, if you fail on the two point try when down by 16, you can make up for it later by going for two on the next two TDs.

73
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 8:52pm

Pats lose both Mankins AND Vollmer for tonight's game. The inactives:

OT Sebastian Vollmer
CB Marquice Cole
DE Jake Bequette
OT Markus Zusevics
DE Chandler Jones
TE Rob Gronkowski
G Logan Mankins

166
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:38pm

Looks like this didn't make much difference.

74
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:01pm

Well, with that sack and the 2 minute warning, that's it for Dallas. For a good while, Dallas' passing offense was clicking really well. But now the line seems to have regressed and Washington has just crushed the Cowboys on this series.

76
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 9:10pm

Ugh. Thanks to Hall for not running up the score?! I guess.

83
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:07pm

Collingsworth says, "Give credit to Brady for sticking with the running game".

Why? We all know that McDaniels is calling the plays, they keep showing him doing it, so why on earth does Collingsworth keep saying that the quarterback is calling the plays. (NB this is not unique to him commentating on Brady, he does it with everyone, Rodgers, Romo, both Mannings). This really winds me up, he's supposed to be one of the best colour guys but he keeps shovelling the same s**t.

84
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:08pm

I have no confidence in Gostkowski this year.

86
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:10pm

With that TD pass Brady passes Dan Fouts to claim the #10 slot on the NFL all-time passing yards list.

87
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:15pm

Jesus Christ, Collinsworth. Nobody claimed the Jets are losing games because the backup quarterback is horrible, they claimed they aren't switching away from the lousy starter because the backup is horrible. Be more disingenuous.

89
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:16pm

C'mon dude reaching the ball out like its the goal line.

90
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:24pm

That is the jets season in a nutshell right there.

98
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cro-Mags :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:08pm

The guy in the turkey suit?

99
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:11pm

Mark Sanchez getting clotheslined by his o lines ass.

92
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Noah of Arkadia :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:31pm

Did Sanchez just get himself levelled by running into a guy's butt??

------
FO posters are a peacock. You got to let us fly!

91
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:28pm

omg

93
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:31pm

I am a Patriots fan and I know with our defense almost no lead is safe, but I am feeling sorry for all those Jets fans sitting out there in the cold.
And Westhoff looks like he may keel over at any time.

94
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:44pm

If you had Julian Edelman in the "the first Patriot to catch a bomb this year" pool, please come forward and collect your winnings

95
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 10:57pm

Have him in fantasy--that's good enough for my $1m.

96
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:07pm

Just just when you thought it couldn't get more embarrassing for the Jets... Kravitz takes the stage.

97
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cro-Mags :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:08pm

Lipsynching. Ugh.

100
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:24pm

Ooooh Edelman fencing response. Not good.

101
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:30pm

Pats fan, not sure I agree with that call.

102
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:35pm

What Spikes does he does really really well.

103
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Thu, 11/22/2012 - 11:58pm

Brady looks really good in the pocket tonight. He's been a litle inaccurate but really slippery.

106
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:52am

OK, the NFL really needs to change all the silly things about when it's OK to hit a guy in the head with your helmet. Edelman's concussion was a vicious, but legal hit because he was a runner on that play, not a receiver. That's just stupid. If he's a QB running, a flag gets thrown (see whatever game that was last week that we had the XP on). How about, if your helmet hits the other guys helmet with any force at all, it's a penalty. NO matter who the guy who got hit was or what he was doing. QB, RB, receiver, lineman. "Defenseless" or not. You could do a 5 yard incidental and a 15 yard flagrant, like they used to have for facemasks if you want. But do somethign in the rules to start forcing players, and especially coaches, to start coaching playing and tackling styles that are safer.

111
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Intropy :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:07am

That rule wouldn't discourage helmet to helmet hits at all, and just about every play would yield offsetting penalties.

112
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:07am

I agree its problematic but how do you stop a goal line run with your proposed rule in place? Is it even possible?

113
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:08am

Another GD double

107
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:56am

And while I'm ranting... NFL, please can the stupid "if you throw the challenge flag when you're not supposed to, we won't review the play" rule. It just smacks of "your being annoying so I'm going to take my ball and go home".

I can understand the rationale between calling "unsportsmanlike" if a coach tries to challenge when he's out of challenges or when he's not allowed to challenge a certain kind of play that is unreviewable...if you don't do that, you'll have coaches throwing their flags to get free timeouts. But if you're already auto-reviewing the play by rule, what whit of difference does it matter if a red beanbag lands on the field or a few seconds? It's not stopping the clock, or giving the thrower a bit of competitive advantage, and the only result is that you will end up intentionally not overturning a play that should be overturned. Seriously, ditch this rule!

(Actually, if it was up to me, challenges would be completley different and much simpler and fairer, and there woudl be no such thing as "automatic reviews", but that's another rant).

108
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:57am

(Of course, as a Patriots fan, I'm a little biased, because the Texan's win here makes the Pats' shot at a first round bye much smaller, but that doesn't change the fact that I thought it was a stupid rule last week, and still do).

110
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:06am

Double

109
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:05am

Double

114
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 2:07am

Toil and trouble?

120
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 4:24am

awesome, awesome response. Or should that be wicked response? It fits both the New Englandy flavor of the thread as well as the play.

fire burn and cauldron bubble

115
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul M (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 3:17am

Lions-- They are who we thought they were

Cowboys-- Ditto

Jets-- you get the drift.

RGIII-- If Snyder and Shanahan can get him a few more players the NFC East will be owned by Washington for a long time

Texans-- Glorified Falcons?? Not a defense I would bank on when Tom B and Bill B come to town in January.

Pats-- Hate to say this, but the 2nd biggest threat (next to SF) to my Packers winning another Super Bowl.

Harbaugh-- Maybe it will all blow up in 4-5 yrs-- but damn the ride will be interesting. He took all the safe choice/can't lose one's job to injury moaners and stuffed them where the sun don't shine. This is very similar to Rodgers c. 2007-- he only played once in a real game situation-- against Dallas when Favre got knocked out of the game in the 1st Half-- but that plus what he was doing in practice every week was enough to convince Thompson and McCarthy to make the move once Favre gave them the rope. I think Kaepernic has probably been killing it in practice, and my guess is the players themselves know he's either already better than Smith or soon to be.

122
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 7:10am

I'd be wary of judging the Texans defense on a game played without Jonathan Joseph on the road on 3 days' rest after nearly a full quarter of overtime.

That said, they don't match up well against the spread teams, and the Packers most of all.

127
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul M (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 11:19am

Sure but to me they are looking more and more like Packers 2009. We had Matthews marauding in his rookie year (a la Watt in his 2nd year) but the minute a real top-notch QB got on the field and spread the pass defense out (Favre, Roethlisberger and ultimately Warner) it was real trouble. The fact that Henne and Stafford were able to do it doesn't bode well for the Texans. Manning or Brady should be able to shred them.

129
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 12:35pm

They already played Manning, in Denver. He went 26-52 for 330 yards, with 36% of his yards and both Broncos touchdowns coming with less than 11 minutes remaining, 20 points down. Through three quarters, the Broncos had 9 offensive points.

The Texans have played back-to-back horrible games, and if that's their true level from here on out they won't go far in the playoffs. I'm pretty sure it isn't. I still don't like their chances in a hypothetical Super Bowl against the Packers, though. Or the Saints, for that matter. The Patriots are also not a great matchup.

131
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul M (not verified) :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 1:04pm

Manning and Broncos today are a lot different than Manning 6 weeks ago, or whenever Houston played them.

136
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dragon Pie (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:50am

I think you overstated this, but I do think that Houston wasn't that much better than Denver in that game and that a game between them could go either way. There's no reason to think that Denver's defense, offense, or special teams wouldn't play better in a rematch when they underplayed their typical production in that game.

202
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:24pm

'Pats-- Hate to say this, but the 2nd biggest threat (next to SF) to my Packers winning another Super Bowl'

Ooops.

The actual Giants decided to show up tonight.

133
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Fri, 11/23/2012 - 9:56pm

Cheerleaders as an audience when a musician is playing: smart.

134
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sat, 11/24/2012 - 11:53am

So Sanchez' missed handoff, turned scramble, turned LG stripsack lock up the FO funniest moment 2012 award?

137
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 12:36pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of football chat!
Instructions moved to pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

138
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 2:10pm

Idiot announcing moment from DEN/KC after the fumble: "The play is under review; Romeo Crennel has challenged." No, he has not challenged, it's a turnover and is automatically reviewed. Had Crennel challenged, there would be no review and DEN would get 15 more yards. Apparently the play-by-play guy (Gumbel?) did not watch Thanksgiving day...

...though he did admit his mistake coming out of commercial break while I was typing this.

139
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 2:25pm

So far the Broncos are being outplayed on offense, defense and special teams by the Chiefs.

159
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DragonPie (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:45pm

This is definitely going to be a negative DVOA for the Broncos. They haven't slowed the Chiefs running game much at all.

140
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 2:29pm

Nice to see an adult (from a different row) steal the ball out of a five year old's hand after Michael Bush handed it to him on the Bears first TD.

Is Peter King covering the Bears Vikings game?

in all seriousness how can people be such raging a-holes? It is a kid.

141
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 2:35pm

I saw that too, despicable.

177
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 7:13pm

Happened a while ago with a shoe from a Packer (Driver)
Was quite a thing.

http://www.bloggerstobenamedlater.com/2012/06/05/woman-steals-shoe-from-...

142
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 2:38pm

Wow, the wind ATE Prater's FG attempt! @_@

143
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Red (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 2:56pm

Is it just me, or is this an awful slate of early games?

144
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:00pm

It is just you.

Bears-Vikings is a great matchup. Steelers-Browns is a good game. Bills-Colts is interesting. As is Seahawks-Dolphins, Falcons-Bucanneers.

Those are all quality games between closely matched teams.

Do you not like football?

I am guessing you are either and NFC East fan or a Patriots fan. Not every game can be Brady-Manning 2004-8.

Do you only think games between top 5 teams are good or what?

148
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Robert Grebel (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:23pm

It's not just you, trust me. Some if these games will have close scores, but almost none of them feature two teams who are actually good at the game of football.

158
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:40pm

So Falcons Buccaneers 12 vs 13, and Vikings Bears 16 vs 6 don't count? You guys must only like 2 or 3 games a week with that standard. this is a pretty normal slate of 7 games. There are 5 time-slots so there will always be holes int eh schedule if you are only interested in top 10 vs top 10.

212
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by vcs (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 1:03am

The Bears put on an entertaining beatdown with a blocked FG and a fake XP for 2 points. At halftime, my local affiliate switched to the ATL-TB game which was close, but I agree, mostly frustrating to watch.

145
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:07pm

Marshall punches off rather badly in the endzone, the DB falls down,and Marshall gets a DPI. When are the real refs coming back?

Then the bears do an awesome 2pt conversion on a fake extra-point. Such well coached special teams and the play was blocked really well.

146
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:17pm

The referees need to start keeping their flags in their pockets unless pass interference is egregious. The penalty you mentioned was a foul by Marshall, if anything, but really ought to have been uncalled either way.

179
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 7:38pm

I don't disagree that it was a terrible call, but I do disagree with your description.

Marshall didn't push off, he posted up like a power forward. That should still be OPI I think, but it's not a push off.

147
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:20pm

Man, the Falcons' incompetence inside the other team's 5-yard-line is starting to become a theme...

149
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:23pm

Four Steelers running backs have fumbled the ball, and the Browns have recovered three of them.

150
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:28pm

And yet Pittsburgh will go into halftime with the lead, thanks to a two-minute-drill drive and a defensive touchdown. (Not that unlike DEN/KC, really.)

153
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:32pm

Nice to see that "Checkdown Charlie" can still gun the ball if he's given the chance. As soon as they let him throw the ball downfield, the Steelers started to move the ball.

154
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:32pm

I used the ball way too many times in that post.

151
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:30pm

And the Steelers have the lead at the half.

Did I read that right, Matt Bryant missed a 22 yard FG? Please tell me that it was blocked.

160
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:01pm

No, he just yoinked it left to right. Odd thing was, Bryant called a TO for no apparent reason before the kick. Guess he iced himself.

152
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:30pm

Chris Rainey was stood up by three Browns short of the goal line, but bounced it outside for a touchdown. Gutsy decision too - there's a good chance time would have expired if he they had wrapped him up.

155
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:33pm

Man, Buffalo and Indy both have completion % in the 40's.

156
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:38pm

Wayne fumbles, Buffalo recovers, Indy calls a time out. No booth review. I just don't understand how this process can be so ineffective.

157
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 3:40pm

Thats 3 free points for Indy. Is the booth review conducted by retarded baboons?

161
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:05pm

I think that Forte's knee was down on that fumble but that he might wish that it wasn't. If he hasn't torn something then he's a lucky fella.

162
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:07pm

Ugh. The officials in the DEN/KC game seem to be trying to dispel the myth that the regular officials are better at managing the pace of the game.
Also, this is a really bad game that Denver is playing.

163
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:25pm

The injuries to the Bears offense are really starting to rack up...Hester, Forte, Spencer, and Louis, and Spencer the only one who might return.

164
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:33pm

That's now five turnovers for the Steelers. At least this time it was on Cleveland's side of the field.

165
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 4:33pm

A flag or fumble on almost every play in the PIT-CLE game.

167
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:00pm

Is that...SEVEN turnovers now by Pittsburgh?

168
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:02pm

Looks like Richardson clearly fumbled, but was ruled down. Steelers out of timeouts, and the play occurred before the 2-minute warning. Game changing blown call.

169
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:03pm

The real offensive line for the Seahawks showed up and Lynch was unable to cover for them today, with an amazingly pathetic collapse by the Seattle defense.

170
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:12pm

How appropriate; Sanders fumbles being tackled on the last play. Seven fumbles, five recovered by CLE, 8 turnovers.

173
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:32pm

I'm pretty sure that was actually the 8th fumble (5 recovered by CLE). I don't know many offensive snaps they had, but probably around 60, right? And on 11 plays they either fumbled or threw an interception.

On the flip side the Steeler DBs had at least three passes go through their hands.

EDIT: I was overly generous. They only had 55 plays, 20% of which resulted in a pick or a fumble.

171
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Whatev :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:12pm

Ironically, the game where the Raiders were mostly well-behaved is the game where they got two players ejected after one of their opponents started a fight.

172
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:30pm

Anquan Boldin doesn't look like a good player anymore. For a WR he's really slow, and his hands haven't been that reliable.

174
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Jon Goldman (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 5:40pm

So, the Bears made me remember that they're not nearly as bad as the Niners made them look, which is reassuring. Also still try to get Kellen Davis involved, which is nauseatingly stupid. Either way, this should shut up those blowhards who keep talking about how many yards the bears have given up to RBs.

I am worried about Forte though, and hope Peanut is fine.

Go Giants now!

175
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 6:15pm

The saints never fumble, it's always forward progress.

176
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 6:54pm

After the Jets last week and now Lindley for Arizona this week, I think we can draw some conclusions about the Rams' pass defense.

178
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 7:19pm

Even as a niner fan I cannot understand how upending Colston in mid air is OK and not a hit on a defenseless receiver.

180
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 7:41pm

hitting them is ok
hitting them in the helmet is not

181
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 7:43pm

You can't have illegal contact first and PI later?

182
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 8:03pm

That's what I thought as well

183
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 8:16pm

Ravens convert a 4th and 29 with a dump off to Ray Rice. Yay Chargers.

185
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 9:19pm

Not really, unless the distance between the 35.1 and the 33.5 is the same as the distance between Ray Rice's knee and chest.

186
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 9:27pm

Yeah that looked like an extremely generous spot.

189
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:10pm

http://i.imgur.com/Ut6Rz.jpg

exactly

total BS
6th grade science laughs at retarded officials

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

215
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by asdasdadsadasd (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 2:42am

Well that is what I call indisputable visual evidence. Really.

Why in the world aren't you working as an official on these games? Oh wait.

221
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 7:59pm

So, you think a 5'8" tall man has a waist-shoulders length that exceeds 1.5 yards?

LMAO. Please tell me you don't teach science or math to the youth of any place on earth.

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

223
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 10:03pm

Maybe, he plays a lot of Borderlands 2.

184
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul M (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 9:04pm

looking at replay, hard to imagine the distance between Rice's knee-- down on the 35 yd line-- and a football being held under his chest-- was 3 feet. Meaning he did not get the first down. But he deserved it and the Chargers pathetic defense who couldn't stop him in the previous 28+ yards did not. It is amaaing how losing teams (Lions/Chargers/Cowboys) lose-- year in and year out-- the games that in the same situation the winners win 75-80% of the time. That game was a classic.

188
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 9:46pm

When they measured the chains went out to about the 34.3 line, so the line to gain was a bit shorter than it appeared. Regardless, an insane play, Rice's 90 degree cut was incredible. Also it looked like Boldin's block on Weddle that sprung Rice for the last few yards was illegal. But the Ravens continue to be lucky, as they have been all year.

198
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:14pm

Terrible tackling by the Chargers on that play. They had three guys coming right at Rice and he had no blockers. But rather than using any kind of containment manuever, all three ran straight at him, so he ignored the one on the left and juked past the two on the right.

204
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JimZipCode :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:29pm

In real-time it looked like Rice made it. The initial spot was too generous, but it looked like he made it. I did not see enough "indisputable visual evidence" in the replays to overturn (not that I was looking for any, I'm a Ravens fan). Amazing play.

Generous spot was a deserved give-back from the refs, for the terrible blocking-in-the-back penalty on the punt return, and the preposterous personal foul on Pollard on that incomplete pass. The one time Pollard actually makes an effort not to lead with his head, and that's what they call? One of the worst calls I've seen this year -- um, I mean, after the return of the real refs.

The Ravens are a different team at home. If they keep backing their way into road wins, and actually convert the second seed they now have, they'll play a postseason game at home. That all by itself would give them a good chance to advance to the conf championship; and if the Broncos or Pats knock off the Texans, that championship game could be in Baltimore.

Or, you know, they'll come back to earth, host a wildcard game and then lose on the road to one of the more complete AFC teams. This is one of the most confusing seasons in memory for a Ravens fan. They look terrible: less physical then most opponents, unable to stop anyone, and even more impotent on offense than usual. And they keep winning and winning and winning. And sometimes they explode and score a ton of points. Bewildering team.

205
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:39pm

Is there any chance Roethlisberger is back for next week? If not, then the NFL scheduling geniuses have really killed the AFC North race. But it could be worse. The Texans won't get their first of two games against the Colts until Week 15! So the team with the rookie QB gets to have him nearly the whole season before they have to face the division favorite.

I wish they'd go to a system that made sure each divisional rivalry has at least one matchup in the first 8 weeks, and then they can do the second one in the last four-five weeks.

210
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by leviramsey (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:16am

I like the idea of loading the division games late in the season: it minimizes the number of teams that rest starters late.

That said, I'd advocate something like

First 8 games: 3 interconference, 3 interdivision, 2 division
games 9-11: 0/1 interconference, 2/1 interdivision, 1 division
games 12-13: 1/0 interconference, 1/2 interdivision
games 14-16: 3 division

You get a half round-robin in each division over the final weeks, which keeps as many teams alive in the playoffs as possible and limits the tendency to rest starters. You also get at least 2 games between home/away division games, to reduce temptation to head-hunt.

219
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by QCIC (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:08pm

While a good idea, I think scheduling all this, plus scheulding around other events, plus other things makes this a much more difficult problem than you would think.

211
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:19am

That would make far too much sense. Like pairing bye weeks with Thursday night appearances.

209
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:02am

I'm with you on the bewilderment. I'm used to the Ravens being very good and unlucky, and now they are just OK and absurdly fortunate.

213
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JimZipCode :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 1:10am

Here's the play I'm complaining about, where Pollard got assessed a personal foul for "leading with the helmet on a defenseless player":

http://www.trbimg.com/img-50b2ea29/turbine/bal-bs-sp-ravens-chargers-p10...

187
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 9:41pm

Well, at least Webster can say that he got beat on that one instead of handing the receiver off to a nonexistent safety again.

190
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:12pm

how is Webster down by contact when he had not yet
"established possession" per the Megatron rule ?

Stupid Goodell rules, killing NFL

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

193
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:48pm

Goodell isn't making any of these rules. All of these rules are from before him.

nice try though.

195
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:09pm

defense of (and public statement of fact of) Megatron rule is under his watch

nice deflection though

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

196
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:10pm

nice anonymous sniping too.

man up and post under an account

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

217
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:27am

Anonymous =/= Anonymousse

See if you can spot the difference.

Also, he's right - it's not a Goodell rule. You made a knee-jerk reaction to his correction of your knee-jerk blaming of all things wrong with the world on Goodell. Who needs to man up?

222
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 8:00pm

I see both points went

your head

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

191
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Meditative_Zebra (not verified) :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:26pm

Did NBC really just play salsa music to celebrate a Victor Cruz touchdown?

192
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 10:35pm

maximus dot gladiator dot jpg

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

197
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:11pm

It was either NBC or the stadium. My guess is the latter.

194
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by young curmudgeon :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:09pm

The mustache which Aaron Rodgers is sporting makes him look disturbingly like a performer in "adult" movies from the 70's or early 80's. (At least, that's what I'm told by persons familiar with the genre.)

220
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 6:23pm

Actually, I thought it made him look more like a generic 'Mexican bandito'.

And what's up with McCarthy's mustache? Is he trying to morph into Andy Reid?

199
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by young curmudgeon :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:15pm

Please do NOT make the Cleveland-Pittsburgh game the subject of Any Given Sunday this week. There's little room for meaningful analysis or unusual insights (The Steelers started an aged, third string quarterback, then vigorously declined to hold onto the football; the Browns managed to cobble together just enough offense on the numerous short fields with which they were awarded to score sufficient points to win; the officials detected offensive holding on what seemed like every second play), plus the game itself was unsightly at best. If most football games resembled that one, the NFL would be out of business.

203
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:27pm

I would imagine Dolphins over Seahawks would be more appealing. Bigger DVOA difference there, and that's with most of PIT's DVOA coming with Roethlisberger at QB.

200
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:17pm

I do not think the Packers will finish ahead of the Bears this year. The OL is just too banged up and they play too many teams that can generate a pass rush with 4 OL. Vikes and Bears can both do this, and that's three of the last five.

207
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:01am

If teams can "generate a pass rush with 4 OL," then they really are in trouble. Imagine if a team uses 4 DL instead!

I have been expecting Al Michaels to say at some point in this game that "We have secretly replaced the Packers' offensive line with the Bears' offensive line. Let's see if anyone notices."

201
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 11/25/2012 - 11:22pm

In case anyone was wondering why Driver rarely plays anymore, watch the last play. He went into Cobb's pattern. Neither he or Saturday will be on the Packers ext year.

206
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JohnD (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:00am

Hmm, maybe the Colts can get Saturday back. Has he really been that bad this year?

208
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymous- (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:01am

Has there ever been a season with as many terrible offensive lines as we have this season?

216
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 4:59am

The sack rate is 6.0% across the league, the second lowest of all time. Completion percentage is up by more than one and a half percentage points on last year and is the highest ever. Yards per completion have only been higher twice this century. The average gain on rushes is 4.22 yards, third highest in the last 50 years.

Some of that is tactics. Some must be offensive lines, surely.

218
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by QCIC (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:49am

Actually think it is 80% rules changes.

214
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by The Hypno-Toad :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 1:54am

The Broncos can clinch the division in week 13 even with a loss... The 2012 AFC West, everybody!

224
Oh Snap!
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 10:35pm

It just got fungible up in Philly.

Oh perhaps fungibility of any good is proportional to the proximity of the Panthers and/or the Linc.

225
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Felicita.romero (not verified) :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 10:53pm

One thing I would like to say is the fact that car insurance cancellation is a feared experience and if you're doing the appropriate things like a driver you simply won't get one. Many people do get the notice that they have been officially dropped by their insurance company and many have to scramble to get additional insurance after a cancellation. Cheap auto insurance rates are generally hard to get from a cancellation. Knowing the main reasons pertaining to auto insurance cancellations can help people prevent losing one of the most important privileges available. Thanks for the ideas shared via your phorum. wish you all the best

226
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:43pm

This punter on the Panthers is one of worst I've ever seen.

227
Jon Gruden ...
by jw124164 :: Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:51pm

makes me feel all stabby...

228
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Tue, 11/27/2012 - 12:15am

Epic Eagles, 3 consecutive offsides penalties.

Login or register to post comments