Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

24 Nov 2013

Week 12 Open Discussion Thread

Retroactively discuss Thursday's game, assuming you didn't forget about it like we did. Oh, and other games. Whatever.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 24 Nov 2013

152 replies , Last at 20 Dec 2013, 1:47am by shankarjoshi

1
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:09pm

Texans start the game off with a 7 yard sack of Henne. They they proceed to allow the Jags to convert the first down after giving up a 15 yard gain on screen a screen pass. If they're going to allow the Jags to move in chunks of yardage like that it's going to be a painful game.

2
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:12pm

And on the next series Texans give up a 25 yard play on 3rd and 4 giving the Jags possession inside the 10. Brandon Harris and Brice McCain run into each other while failing to execute a switch in coverage.

A secondary featuring Shiloh Keo, McCain, and Harris is... suboptimal.

3
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:15pm

Jags are aggressive going for it on 4th and goal from the 1. MJD punches it in. Texans inability to stop 3rd down on the two preceding sets of downs has been a consistent issue this season.

4
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:18pm

Jacksonville has ditched playing dodo football for a few games already. They are going for it on 4th down a lot and are going for TDs instead of FGs.

5
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:22pm

Keenum takes a 20 yard sack on 3rd and 8. Texans have to punt it away. At least the Texans didn't cough up a turnover giving the Jags a short field. One step at a time.

6
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:38pm

The Houston defense fails to prevent another 3rd and long conversion. On top of it Jonathan Joseph goes to the sidelines after the play. If Joseph is out for any length of time I think their back-up is... me.

7
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:50pm

I like your odds.

9
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:56pm

Looks like to can tell my agent to stand-down. Joseph is back on the field.

8
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 2:51pm

On defense the Texans are just pinning their ears back and going after Henne. When the rush gets their it ends poorly for the Jags, but when it doesn't they're converting chunks of yardage.

On offense they have been mostly ineffective. They haven't taken any shots downfield, mostly because nothing has been open for him.

10
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:00pm

Commentator is saying something about the Defensive Coordinator of the Browns.
He brought them to 'championship form'.
I know it's hard to separate one unit from another one to calculate DVOA but Cleveland defense is 19th in DVOA... did I miss something?

40
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:11pm

Looking at the raw statistics one is left with the impression that Browns are a defense that gets thrown under the bus a lot by the other units of their team. And that while they make the opposition fight for their yards, they're prone to surrendering TDs and lack the ability to create the kind of plays that are necessary to swap field position. They're good at yards per play, decent at resisting 1st downs, bad at preventing TDs, not great at producing turnovers. They'd probably be a much better defense if they had a much better offense, but they don't and the surrendering TDs as opposed to forcing FGs is pretty much on them.

11
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:05pm

The Jags defense is all over the Texans offense. Keenum getting little time to pass, and the CBs are all over the WRs. The Texans have made it into Jag territory once, and have under 15 yards of total offense midway through the 2nd quarter.

12
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:10pm

Campbell needs attention after being brought down. He was rolling and got tackled and landed badly on what looked like an easy tackle.
Weeden is warming up. Again.

13
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:13pm

This is getting creepy. Like there's a curse on any QB playing ahead of Weeden. As Simmons would say: God hates Cleveland.

19
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:22pm

So the refs call 3 penalties on the Bears on one play (only the first one should have mattered, as it was clearly an incomplete pass and the play should have been blown dead immediately...and then everything after that wouldn't have happened), but Chris Long leaves the bench to join the fight and that goes unnoticed. Okay.

14
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:14pm

I think thats snow in Cleveland. Is this the first snowfall during play this season?

16
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:18pm

So Simpson falls on Burnett after making the catch and Burnett gets a 15 yard penalty? I've been pretty good about dealing with all the new rules that are claimed to be for safety but sometimes the calls are just....

Of course I might just be annoyed because GB's defense sucks enough, the Vikings aren't going to need the refs to help them to score, even with Ponder at QB.

21
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:31pm

Watching it live, I can see why it was called. But agree that, on replay, it's a terrible call.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

26
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:05pm

Yeah it was not a good call at all.

15
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:17pm

Gus Bradley loses a timeout and a challenge when he tries to challenge that a member of the punt coverage unit was out of the end zone when he downed a punt. It seems to me it was a terrible situation to challenge. Yes, the difference between downing the ball at the one, and a touchback is a lot of yardage, but the Jags defense has been smothering and the Texans have been incredibly ineffective. Keeping the challenge (and it was a close call but clearly called correctly on the field) would seem to have been a better call there.

17
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:18pm

Haden makes a rookie mistake.
He's in man coverage and step for step with Antonio Brown - perhaps the fastest guy on the field - and Haden decides to look back to see if the ball is on its way even though he hasn't eaten up his cushion yet.
Next thing you know, Haden is slowing down and Brown is still sprinting. Brown gets separation, catches the ball and it's a TD.
Who would've thought; running while looking behind you slows you down.

18
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:22pm

Polamalu almost exclusively does his job close to the LOS or in the flats.
So now he can make plays without being out of position! Whoo hoo!!

20
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:27pm

Rams were supposed to be a good team this year, but nobody gave them the memo. Then, just when everyone agreed that the Rams were a bad team this year, nobody gave them that memo either. Someone better send the Bears a memo that every game from here on out has playoff implications.

22
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:34pm

Luke Kuechly hits Dolphin receiver with helmet to helmet hit. Looked like unnecessary roughness.

Flag thrown.

And then picked up.

So...apparently there's some kind of secret memo saying that Kuechly can do what he wants to in the end zone, and it's not a penalty.

Unlike the game last Monday, I don't see how there's any argument here. It was a clear helmet-to-helmet hit. Why are flags being picked up?

23
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:36pm

There's clearly something going on here where referees that are in a bad position are overruling those in a good position.

It's really strange to see the guy whos 50 feet away overrule a guy who is 5 feet away.

ps. Does the spam filter ever think something isn't spam?

27
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:07pm

I think it helps to be logged in.
Although most of my longer comments need spam-thing.

I guess a lot of words are considered 'spam'.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:11pm

Funny, the spam filter never hassles me. #PatriotsBias :)

24
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by patriotsgirl :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 3:44pm

I guess Buffalo was lucky that Kuchely committed his foul from the 11.

25
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:04pm

DJ Swearinger barely misses what could have a been a pick-6 for Houston when he drops a Henne pass to Shorts. The Texans finally stop a Jags 3rd down, but Antonio Smith goes helmet-helmet hitting Henne (and it was a text-book penalty; leading with the crown on his helmet right into Henne's facemask) and the penalty gives the Jags 15 yards and a first down.

28
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:09pm

JJ Watt blocks Scobee's FG attempt. It's a shame that the Texans' failure of a year has left Watt's performance this season out of the headlines. Seems like he's been even more disruptive this season, just without the gaudy sack numbers.

30
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:17pm

Flacco hits a bomb over Reed to Jacoby Jones for a 66 yard TD. Can't imagine the Jets coming back given how their offense has played.

31
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:36pm

So 'aiding the runner' is totally legal now, no?
Because Adams (lineman Steelers) pretty much carried Bell (halfback Steelers) for another 2 yards.

32
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:37pm

I don't think I've ever seen it actually get called, and it happens quite a bit.

58
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:36pm

I saw the ref talking to Adams after that particular play. Perhaps it was a warning? "Please don't force me to make that call..."

33
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:38pm

Texans Special Teams are making a serious push to supplant the Redskins as the worst in DVOA. Martin fields a kick 2 yards deep and fails to make it to the 15.

34
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:39pm

Roethlisberger punts to the 1!

35
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:44pm

Those bud light commercials are just too retarded.
They don't score because you got beer from the basement you idiot. Only morons think that way.

37
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:55pm

Consider the target audience.

39
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by tad (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:09pm

Football fans? Yeah, you're right.

42
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:27pm

Your words, not mine.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:33pm

I was going with beer drinking americans.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:49pm

Closer to the mark. I was thinking "drinkers of cheap American beer".

#BeerSnob

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:00pm

oh that doesn't make you a snob. American light beer is like sex in a canoe.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:53pm

I think they're meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

36
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 4:55pm

Texans driving in the last minute to try and tie the game, but Keyshawn Martin bobbles a reception which is then picked off by the Jags.

With this loss does it give the Texans the first pick if the season ended today?

38
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:06pm

So is there a worse referee than Jerome Boger? Not complaining about the roughing-the-passer gift the Bears just got, but my God, the penalty calls have been terrible in this game. Does he get paid by the flag?

41
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:16pm

San Diego might lose thanks to the prevent offense.

Why can't teams that are moving the ball just keep playing the same way with 5 minutes to go and a small lead? Run the clock if you are 2 scores up, but 3 points isn't much with the way kickers and pass defense are these days.

43
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:28pm

Rivers may have just bailed them out.

Very nice TD pass there.

45
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:34pm

I'd make some kind of comment about the KC defense being overrated, but the loss of Hali and Houston has got to make a serious impact that mitigates that somewhat, especially since SD has a good offense anyway. Still, that sack by Berry on the final drive was the first one they've had in three weeks, which is not a good sign.

In other news, Case Keenum could not get in the end zone at home against the Jaguars. Almost feels like Houston is taking securing the first pick in the draft into their own hands.

46
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:38pm

So when Green Bay had a 4th-and-goal from the 2 on the first drive of overtime, was it crazy of me to think they should've gone for it? If you make it, game over, and even if you don't they get ball the back right up against their own end zone. Plus you avoid kicking to Patterson.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:41pm

Seems like a decent idea to me.

48
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:42pm

I was thinking the same thing, particularly when Minnesota ripped right down the field and didn't stall until deep in the GB end. I contrast Ron Rivera going for it on 4th-and-10 in his own end in the win over Miami (talk about a guy who's done a complete 180 this year...)

54
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:55pm

edd

49
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:43pm

tie alert in Wisconsin.

55
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:57pm

When it went to 1st and 25, I actually thought the best option for GB was take a knee and the tie. The chance of something bad happening in the last 30 seconds was much higher than the chance of anything positive. Looks like the tie will happen anyway unless Ponder has a 66-yard Hail Mary in him, though.

50
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:44pm

Actual quote from Colts/cards game: "It's always great when comedian Carrot Top comes out to enjoy the game."

No, no it's not.

52
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 5:50pm

Carrot Top's mom is in the house?

57
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:10pm

If the Jets keep playing the way they have the past two weeks, Rex Ryan may still yet be fired, despite his team currently being in a tie for the sixth seed in the AFC.

Speaking of that sixth seed, there will be a six-way tie for that spot at the end of play today.

59
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Thok :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:37pm

Is it just me, or does teams tend to spend too much time per play in overtime? The goal isn't to run out the clock and get a tie, the goal is to end the game by scoring a touchdown on an early drive or a field goal on a late drive, and spending 6 minutes on the first drive just to get a field goal isn't all that helpful.

61
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Trumaine Brock (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:42pm

Agree would like to see teams run more hurry up, no huddle Offenses in an Overtime; instead of going heavy personnel and playing like it's the 1st quarter again.

63
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 7:07pm

Fatigue is probably an issue by that stage. Tough to run the hurry with linemen who have already slugged it out for 4 quarters I'd imagine.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:57pm

You actually have 15 minutes to score, so you have all the time in the world.
Better get the right personnel and the right play in.

67
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Thok :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:00pm

If both you and your opponent are running a 5-6 minute drive just to get a shot at a field goal, then 15 minutes is nothing. Especially if you end up needing two field goals to win.

69
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:18pm

You're not starting the first drive of an overtime with the idea to run multiple drives.
You drive the way you think will give you the best chance at a TD. If that's in slow mo, then it's slow mo.

60
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott Crowder (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 6:41pm

Cardinals looking like they really want that Niner playoff slot. Colts looking like, well, the most inconsistent team of the season.

65
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 7:16pm

Palmer really looks like he's settling in with Arians and the rest of the offense of late. If they could just figure out that Ellington is a better RB than Mendenhall (though Mendenhall *is* having a good game today, to give credit where it's due), they might genuinely have something.

71
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:32pm

I wouldn't read too much into a performance against the Colt's defense. It's imploded over the last month. The front seven is totally ineffective at this point, excluding maybe Mathis. Even he isn't playing great though. The bad front seven has exposed the mediocre secondary. Completion percentage has been off the charts against the Colts recently.

66
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 7:21pm

Yep. The media won't blame Luck one bit for the Colts inconsistency, though. Even though he gets all the credit when they win.

72
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:33pm

Perhaps it's because most people realize he has a terrible line and no receivers.

75
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:52pm

So do a bunch of other QBs.

Or perhaps he only has a subpar o-line and receivers when the Colts lose. Because when they win, you'd think that Luck blocked for himself and caught his own TDs, when those same subpar teammates actually gave him plenty of support.

80
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:50pm

No, his liene sucks every week. He has taken 50% more hits then any other QB in the league. Since Reggie Wayne went down, he has one NFL quality receiver. Luck hasn't played great over the last month, but it is silly to claim that he is the reason for the Colt's poor offensive performances.

83
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:06pm

So? He's an elite QB. He should helping his line by getting rid of the ball quicker, right? It's what I always hear about Luck when the Colts win, he makes everyone and everything better. But when they don't win it's the o-lines fault. Not buying the double standard.

88
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:27pm

No, he's holding the ball too long because nobody can get open, actually. I'm not sure what you're arguing, though Since he can't overcome a poor line and poor receivers every week that makes him overrated? If that's you're point, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

92
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:56pm

Please don't feed the trolls.

98
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon1000 (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:08pm

So? Luck is elite. He's supposed to throw pinpoint passes to covered receivers. That's all I hear about Luck whenever the Colts win, now that they don't win it's the receivers fault.

No, he's isn't overrated because of that. He's just overrated. He's been a good QB this season and has played well at times, but people need to stop making him elite when he still has to prove that he's the best young QB of his generation.

And LionsInAZ, no one asked you to reply.

148
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 9:52pm

Don't bother with this guy. We all know football is not a one man game.

64
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 7:14pm

I'm confused: New York has been much better at running than passing in this game. Facing 3rd and 6, and knowing that they would go for it on 4th, why not run? They've gotten several long runs in the game, so it's not at all unlikely it might succeed (especially with the surprise factor), and their best RB, Brown, is their third-down back anyway.

68
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:13pm

Dallas is falling apart. With 9 minutes left and down basically a score, this should get tied up soon enough.

70
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:23pm

aaaaaaaaand you're correct.

73
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:43pm

aaaaaaaand Cowboys win anyway

74
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 8:43pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for internet relay irrational brady/manning chat!
Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

76
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave G (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:21pm

Maybe I missed something, but in the late INT in the Jets-Ravens game it appears that the defender runs out the back of the endzone on his own. I only saw the replay once, but why wasn't it called a safety?

77
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:30pm

A defender who gets control of the end zone cannot be tackled for a safety - it's a touch back. I imagine it's the same thing for a defender who runs out of the end zone.

A safety only happens when you have control of the ball outside of the end zone and bring it into your end zone and the play ends there (or there's a penalty there).

78
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:42pm

Dammit, Ridley, these fumbles are killing your future in the NFL.

79
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:45pm

RIdley may have just fumbled, but no one can take away how awesome his hair is.

81
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:58pm

Getting ridiculous out there.

First fumble was indefensible.

Second fumble was on Solder's failure to block.

Don't know what to say about this one. Looked like it was essentially caused by a knee to the head.

82
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 9:59pm

Wow?

84
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Juvenal (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:11pm

It's too bad Brady is all about stats and doesn't have that winning quality Peyton has.

I am sorry I will never get sick of it! :)

85
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:12pm

Surely electronic timekeeping technology should be able to handle this weather. It's the 21st century. Yes?

86
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RedZone :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:19pm

The referee should be wearing a vest and pulling out a pocket watch from this point forward...

87
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:25pm

Broncos have -1 net passing yards.

89
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:39pm

Coverage on the screen pass?

Anyone?

90
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:45pm

Pretty soon the Broncos will need to go to the long pass in order to grind the clock and avoid running up the score.

91
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by young curmudgeon :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 10:55pm

So far, tonight's answer to the "who's better, Manning or Brady?" question is "Moreno."

93
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by young curmudgeon :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:02pm

Odd pass interference call on Amendola.

94
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:03pm

The OPI call on Amendola was just bizarre.

95
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:05pm

It looked like textbook OPI to me, I'm not sure why Collinsworth didn't think so. It looked like Amendola actively sought out Gronkowski's man and ran into him to free him up.

96
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:06pm

And Rodgers-Cromartie hurts himself trying for a pointless INT to pad his stats. Dumb.

99
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Acetone (not verified) :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:11pm

I imagine it's instinct for a corner to attempt to catch a ball in the air - the kind of thing you train for so much that it stops becoming a matter of judgment.

100
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:24pm

Normally I would agree with you. But it's the last play of the half, and that ball was floating in the air for quite some time there. DBs know the one rule in that situation is to bat the ball down, there's nothing to be gained for picking that off.

97
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:06pm

More weirdness: DRC apparently hurts himself diving to try to get a pick on the last play of the half.

I've got to wonder how much of tonight's sloppy play is due to the cold.

101
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:25pm

The second half should be about pride and self-respect for the Patriots. Ignore the scoreboard and just focus on avoiding stupid mistakes.

102
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:37pm

They'll have a lot more pride and self-respect if they win the game though!

103
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:40pm

That's certainly true.

Good start to the half. If only the Pats had a run defense I'd be more optimistic.

Montee Ball might have more fumbles/carry than Ridley.

104
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:55pm

The DRC injury really has opened things up for the Pats' passing game.

105
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Sun, 11/24/2013 - 11:58pm

So, it's perfectly clear now. Gronk interfered with in endzone, National Disgrace. Gronk pass interferes in the endzone, 'Big boy Football.'

106
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:10am

Impressive comeback by the Pats. Can't just be the injuries.

108
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:14am

momentum? heh

107
Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:14am

Vereen is really becoming an adventure as a receiver. Maybe it's time to shut that option down.

edit: and just like that, he converts a 3rd down.

This is why I'm not a coach.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:17am

This might end up being a blowout the other way.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:24am

Too bad - the hold had nothing to do with the pick, but dem's da rules.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:34am

With this much time left it's hard to imagine the Patriots not going down and scoring to win this one.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:41am

I see what you're up to.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:50am

Well, they'd scored on five straight drives, most of those drives with ease.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:41am

4th and short?

throw to Kevin Faulk?

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Acetone (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:49am

I don't understand why Denver didn't use their timeouts to force NE to play to 4th down.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:52am

I think the Patriots should've gone for it on that fourth-and-one considering Brady's record on sneaks.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:53am

When the Ravens took the ball in 45 mph winds in Chicago in OT, I thought that was a mistake. But given how NE sliced up Denver's D in the 3rd quarter, this doesn't seem like the right call to me.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:58am

Very strong game for Aqib Talib.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 12:59am

Is Chris Collinsworth widely known as the worst announcer on NFL games? Is there anyone worse than he is?

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:40am

Phil Simms is much worse.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 8:43pm

He's one of the more tolerable to me.
Simms and some others I never care to remember the names are way way worse. Someone called Nants comes to mind.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:21pm

I think he's one of the better ones.

Dierdorf and Simms are probably the worst.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:02am

Jammer got away with one there.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:06am

… And then he is karmically punished on the next play.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Acetone (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:03am

Come on Collinsworth, “they’re letting them play football”!

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:03am

I just don't get how the Patriots can hold and interfere just about every play, and then act incensed when their opponents get away with a close one. How did Brady not get a flag screaming at the refs?

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 9:09am

I'm almost 100% sure that morganja is either Peyton Manning, or Rex Ryan.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by slomojoe (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 9:47am

Can't be Peyton, but he could definitely be Archie.

However, my bet is on Mercury Morris (he started Patriot-hating in 2007).

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:04am

That's the 3rd and 4 playcall, McDaniels???

You want Brady throwing deep on a cold night???

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:06am

If Moreno could carry the ball more than 2x in a row without having to come out the Broncos would be in much better shape.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Alternator :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:15am

Tonight, Brady has outplayed Manning, but Moreno has outplayed both combined.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:16am

Memo to McD: Brady is not going to get a completion 30 yards downfield to anybody in this cold weather.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 9:08am

Agreed. It was pretty irritating watching McD try to kill drives. It's the end of a close game, you have the ball and plenty of time... first downs, not a kill stroke.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:18am

... That's how this game ends? bleh

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:21am

Seems like that one is one Welker. Just run under the punt and call a fair catch.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:22am

Just when it looked like we would have the second tie of the day. Now that will probably never happen… I guess an appropriately odd finish to this game.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:23am

On one hand this is a terrible ending for this game. On the other it's the most fitting ending possible. And old horse-face just has to sit there and watch it happen. I am content.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Alternator :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:24am

Seems fitting, really. Game hyped as giant QB battle is nothing of the like, with Manning being his usual middling cold-weather self and Moreno carrying the load for the Broncos. A giant special teams blunder to set up the winning score is somehow fitting.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:28am

I know the ending wasn't aesthetically pleasing, but I'll certainly take it.

Huge game for the Patriots. In spite of their Keystone Cops shenanigans of the 1st quarter, the defense was stout enough to let the offense make the 2nd half comeback.

Agree with those above who say that Moreno was the player of the game. But Talib also had a great game, given that he was in man coverage on Demaryius Thomas most of the game.

I don't know what kind of electroshock therapy is going to be needed to get Ridley to hold onto the ball more securely.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Go pats (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:36am

So patriots haters, how does it feel??

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:52am

I don't think the Pats run defense was as bad as it looked tonight. The Pats were playing with their top four DB's all at less than full-strength, and to my eye it looked like they were in nickel almost the entire time. It seems like they decided to not let Manning beat them and instead rely on their front four to keep Moreno from getting his yards.

Of course, that front four pretty much failed to do so, but it is notable that when it absolutely counted (i.e. in overtime when a 5 yard run was as damaging as a >5 yard pass), they were able to hold the run game in check.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CaffeineMan :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 2:39am

Yeah, I wondered if it was a "let Thomas run" kind of game plan, which looked pretty bad when the Pats were giving the ball away, but didn't look anywhere near as bad when the offense got it in gear in the second half. I'll be fascinated to see what DVOA says about this game.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 1:53am

And while a lot of folks might think it's a lame ending for the game, having a fluke win you a game is kind of karmic justice after getting jobbed twice this season by the refs.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by nat :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 2:00am

Hey, lookie! Another game winning drive for Tom Brady!

Did I mention how I loathe that stat?

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 2:22am

Wes Welker took his eye off the ball for just a moment, locking eyes with his QB from just a season ago. The crisp night brought a rosy glow to Brady's otherwise rakish features as the chill wind played with his hair. He could hear Paula Cole's "I Don't Want To Wait" swelling in the background before the colors of teammate Tony Carter flashed in his peripheral vision, snapping him back to the game. Too late to ward anyone off, but Brady.... Such joy as he bounded back on to the field. Welker knew it was his call to make, that he blew it. His heart sank deeper as every step carried him from Brady to his own sideline. He hoped the ache was for his team, but he just didn't know.

And you don't want to credit Brady? C'mon man.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by AnonymousBoob (not verified) :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 2:31am

Pure brilliance. Absolutely amazing. Kudos good sir.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by CaffeineMan :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 2:43am

Nice…

Kind of funny that yet another beloved ex-Pat has a special teams moment in a game in Foxboro.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 8:46pm

Remember kids: Brady is clearly better than Manning because the punt returner didn't communicate well enough to his return team!

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:23pm

Terrible pick by RG3.

His accuracy continues to be off.

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:24pm

Hmm..Meriweather found some way to tackle CK without going for either the head or the knees.

It's almost like there's 2-3 feet of torso in between!

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Re: Week 12 Open Discussion Thread
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