Talk amongst yourselves
8/28: CIN RB, CLE WR, NE TE, PHI TE
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02 Dec 2012
You may discuss Week 13's games in this thread, should any of them tickle your fancy.
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 02 Dec 2012
179 replies , Last at
04 Dec 2012, 11:12am by
No rooting in tonight's game. Kinda hoping the Saints sweep the season set just to get the MSSM off the "Falcons best team in the NFL" tack.
Maybe I'm not getting out enough, but I don't hear anyone hyping the Falcons. On the contrary, no one seems to respect them. Not that I'm a huge believer in them either, I just think it's swung the other way too far. Now they may be underrated.
So, who is covering Jimmy Graham? Would you believe Kroy Biermann? So far, it's worked sorta OK. Better than Curtis Lofton on Gonzales.
Bree's throws 2nd INT; accuracy looks off tonight on several passes.
Falcons getting decent pressure on Brees, but cannot make solid contact, allowing Brees to escape and make several 3rd and long plays on this drive.
Brees has accuracy back but runs out of time at the 2. 17-7 Atlanta at the half. Stupid autocorrect thinks QB is Bree's . Making me feel like raiderjoe
Bree's throws 3rd int as he doesn't see William Moore
That was a terrible decision. That's the kind of thing that gets a slomo, "Nooooooooooo" in comedies.
Biermann forces Bree's 4th int. 23-13 Atlanta with 3 minutes left.
Turner doesn't go down. Gets stripped; Saints recover, but Bush should be down by contact at 30, not a TD return.
That should have been whistled dead.
Mayock says that the refs "are taught to hold the whistle and let the replay official sort things out." That's how the Lions got screwed over last week.
What an awful game for Brees.
edit: but an offside bails him out from his fifth INT
How do we know that isn't Tony Romo is a Drew Brees suit?
No, says Brees, I'm going to throw my fifth pick if I want to!
Very next play he gives it right back to Falcons.
You just can't deny me guys...
Hey, will Brees break his TD streak?
Bree's 5th int called back on Abraham offsides. 2 minute warning.
Wow! What a 5th INT by William Moore on the bomb!
Rodgers runs for the first and that should wrap it up.
I hope it was just the short week, but our OL looked terrible the last 3/4 of the game, especially McClure. 165 yards passing against the Saints?? At least our D had some bright spots - Moore/Weatherspoon were studs.
Not going to be screaming for Brees to be benched just yet, but, with several bad games this year, it seems that he definitely peaked last year. I know part of it is due to the left side of the O-line not holding up as well as in the past, but, that can't be all of it. I do think that, going forward, we should start to see more of the backup QB in the second half of games to see what we really have there for the future. He needs the reps and, at the very least, we might be able to get him good enough to use in an off-season trade for some defensive help next year.
Is the Saints' defense suddenly decent? I didn't watch last night's game, but Matt Ryan's numbers are lousy, and I thought the Saints did a creditable job of limiting the 49ers last week. It's the offense that's let the Saints down recently.
I'll plug Insider here, and say that since their bye week, the Saints have only had one game with a defensive DVOA over 10%, that was the Denver game. They have also only had one game with a negative defensive DVOA, the Oakland game. They don't have last nights DVOA in there of course, but yes, they aren't good, but they have been hovering around a 5% DVOA in 5 of the last 6 games. With the new season normalized DVOA and only 14 teams with negative (good) defensive DVOA heading into this week I would say that you could consider the Saints D to be almost credible, or at worst a bit below average. So certainly good enough to win with if the offense plays above average which is not an unreasonable expectation when you have Drew Brees at QB.
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#76 from TEN looks to have had his lower leg broken when a Texan defender rolled into it when attempted to tackles CJ on a run up the middle. He was carted off w/ a splint applied.
Texans LT Duane Brown being looked at after a Foster run to the left. Of course CBS doesn't bother showing replays of a play when the Texans left tackle, one of the best in the conference, might have gotten hurt. Nothing important there.
Brown comes back into the game on Houston's next series.
Man officials are missing a lot in Miami. A few plays ago a Pats pass rusher jumped offsides but it wasn't called and the offensive tackle got called for holding trying to block him. Then a facemask penalty on 3rd and long missed. But at least Miami gets 3.
Houston lines up to run a play on a 4th & 1 deep in TEN territory. Kubiak runs to the ref, calls a TO. After the TO they run a pitch to the left to Foster who gets the first. The next play is a dump off to James Casey who take it in for the score making it 14-3 HOU.
Marshall with 5 catches in 7 targets for 82 yards...SEA's ranking as best team against #1 receivers may be in trouble...
...though when you get down to it, Marshall isn't necessarily like most #1s in that he's not a downfield burner. Kind of like how Welker is NE's #1 WR in terms of targets, yards, etc. but he doesn't play the role in the offense a stereotypical #1 does; Marshall is more like the #2 except that he gets thrown the ball more often...
I can't see the games, but I am following on NFL gameday. So, was the Miami kid really injured, or did he just feel stupid causing a roughing the kicker penalty and fake it so he didn't look so stupid?
Yeah... he was hurt it looked like he ran into a wall when he hit Mesko
I can't see the game so I don't know for sure, but it seems like with a little fumble recovery luck, NE would be crushing Miami. Four fumbles, and they only got one.
The Pats really haven't been able to run at all and Brady has missed a lot of throws he normally makes so I'm not so sure of that.
The punter came down on his neck, and I think his head hit the turf as a result. So I think it was a legit injury.
Talk about different stat lines/strategies:
Brady has thrown 24 times for 147 yards and NE has scored 2 TDs.
Luck has thrown 10 times for 157 yards and 2 TDs.
Controlled precision (6.1 ypa) versus chuck-deep-and-hope (15.7 ypa).
If anyone is watching TEN-HOU, why did they blow Antonio Smith's fumble recovery/return dead?
And HOU gets another TO off a tip. DT Crick tips a Locker pass at the line and Dobbins returns it to the TEN 3.
Before the half the Texans tip another Locker pass at the line, which is then intercepted by Quin.
Cards-Jets is an exercise in offensive putridity (read offensive both ways.) Teams are combined 2-14 on 3rd downs (Cards 0-8.) And four combined INTs. What a waste for the Cardinals, whose defense is 3rd in DVOA.
Halftime score: AZ 3 - NJY 0 with a 48-yd FG as the half ends. I want to send Larry Fitzgerald an "I'm sorry" Hallmark card and a hug.
Great catch by Braylon Edwards, undone. Still as an old bastard, it gives me hope.
TEN lines up for a play on 4th and 6. They wind up taking a 5 yard penalty for delay of game and having to punt, which TEN downs at the 1. My question is, why take the penalty there? They weren't trying to draw HOU offsides, and the penalty clearly moved them out of FG range. TEN was already down to 2 time outs so they had no guarantee of getting the ball back even if they stopped HOU after the punt.
So yeah my Peterson worry looks like it was understated. 25 for 185 would be a huge recovery for the defense at this point since he is 15 for 178 already.... At least Allen doesn't have 6 sacks, but Lang is out of the game and that means Barclay at tackle and that could be ugly.
AZ-NYJ now 2-18 on 3rd downs
Lindley and Sanchez are trying out-sh*t each other: combined 15-40, 143 yds, 0 TD, 4 INT
They just showed a great shot of Fitzgerald's face after another Lindley incompletion. Tons of "please Lord strike my QB with lightning" thinly veiled by a look of utter frustration.
The alternatives aren't much better. Fitzgerald's treasure ship is awash in a sea of 2nd string QBs.
JJ Watt gets his second deflected pass of the game, giving him 16 for the year.
Sanchez has officially been pulled; Greg McElroy making his NFL debut.
Sanchez benched. McElroy in for the Jets. Rex finally takes advantage of having a backup quarterback he's content to actually use at quarterback.
I haven't been watching the whole game, but does NE throw a WR screen on every 3rd and long these days? It seems like its been that way the past few games.
HOU gets its 4th turn over of the game when CB Harris strips the ball from Locket on a scramble and its recovered by Mercilus. Was a close call and just looks like there wasn't enough for the referee to overturn it on replay.
McElroy leads the Jets down the field and throws a TD, Jets up 7-3 at the start of the fourth. A 4-point deficit is way too much for the Cards to overcome in just one quarter; this game is effectively over.
Fox just showed a fun graphic: Fitzgerald has had 10 starting QB's in his nine years in the league. Truly disgusting.
TEN gets its first TD of the game on a 26 yard pass to Britt. Kareem Jackson was burned by Britt's move to the outside and had his easiest catch of the game.
Matt Schaub catches his own pass for a 6 yard loss.
Note to FOX:
don't have cheerleaders near the announcers.
(or don't point your speakers at them)
I'd rather hear the cheerleaders than the Fox announcers.
How can the Rams be given a TD on that?? Guy was clearly down by contact.
I was wondering that too. Even worse, they upheld it on review.
Can wr have another 49ers-Rams tie? That would be priceless.
TEN goes for it on 4th & 4 from the HOU 7. Locker rolls right, finds no one open, tries to reverse direction, stumbles, and drops the ball as he's sacked. There's a scramble for possession but CBS cuts away before its resolved as the turnover on downs made the fumble meaningless. Houston remains up by two TDs with less than 10 minutes left to play. A win clinches a playoff berth.
And 5 minutes later TEN faces 4th & 5 from the Houston 33. Needing two TDs to tie they go for it and Locker's pass falls incomplete. The Titans still have all their time outs and the 2 minute warning so they have a chance, but it will require some exceptionally bad play from Houston to make it happen.
The Texans pick off Locker for the 3rd time. Demps knocks the ball loose as it hits the receiver and Dobbins pulls it in before it hits the ground. Antonio Smith gets himself a personal foul for an illegal block after the turnover. The interception is upheld.
Unless there is an epic collapse Houston will be headed for the playoffs for the second time in franchise history and second time in as many years.
Classic Lovie Smith prevent offense kills the Bears again.
I thought under the Dave Casper rule, only the player who fumbles can advance it in the last two minutes?
Oh, never mind, ESPN's feed keeps changing what happened on the play; it had Tate fumbling at the 1 and Rice recovering in the end zone for a second there.
Was it already 4th down?
According to John Lynch, Peyton Manning is even making Denver's defense play better.
I was wondering to myself if John Lynch ever felt like the QB on his team made him play better.
But indirectly - yes. A better offense and a more creative one makes a defense better also.
I can see how a lead forces the opposing offense to play better and I can see how practicing against a good offense can be helpful, but well, significantly. It was still a silly comment.
A lot of offensive three-and-outs results in a tired D, weak, fading in the 4th quarter. So a QB who keeps the chains moving, allows his D to recover and play at their best. Fewer turnovers and controlling field position also comes into play--if you turn it over a lot, giving your D a short field to defend, well, that makes them appear worse. Less margin for error. A strong running game can also do this for a D. But a good QB can also both put up a lot of actual points (allows your D to pin their ears back and rush) and psychologically affect the other team's O to make them pass-happy, play riskier to combat his mythological status. Think of Jeff Fisher on-side kicking three or four times itn eh first half of a game vs the Colts about 6 years ago. He knew his team had no chance straight-up so he took all kinds of kooky risks. The presence of Manning tends to do that. The other guys make more throws and Von Miller has more sack opportunities and Champ Bailey has more INT chances.
"Windows 8 Simplify the Game"
Lovie might have wanted to call a timeout at some point on that drive. The Bears were getting pushed all over.
The Asterisk put in a signature performance too.
Will ESPN ever figure out what's going on? That's the second time in a row on the Seattle touchdowns that they first announced a touchdown, then announced that replay had changed the call to a fumble (and on the second time, one recovered by the Bears), and then changed it back to a touchdown. Hello, how hard can it possibly be to just report the facts of the game as they happen?
Harbaugh might want to rethink attempting game-winning FGs in OT against the Rams.
Trying to figure out what would happen to the standings of the SF-Rams game were to end in a tie. Would a team with a 8-2-2 record be tied exactly with a team with a 9-3 record? I think yes, but I've been getting the opposite argument. I don't see "number of wins" in the tiebreaker rules.
You're right. Ties count as half a win, so 8-2-2 is exactly tied with 9-3.
No, ties effectively count as losses until they start counting losses specifically.
This is certainly not true.
Pretty sure it's wins/games first, then losses/games. Ties are counted seperately, not as half-wins and floats have been around for a long ass time.
Nope. Ties do count as half a win when calculating winning percentage, which is how the standings are determined.
Christ the Lions insist on finding a way to loose every week.
Words fail me as to how awful the Lions played on the last two series of the game.
Going 75 yards in 1:07 with no timeouts and the TD coming with all zeros on the clock is pretty impressive by Luck, though.
Allowing Avery to run free across the middle of the field with no one shadowing him is awful, though.
The Lions secondary gave the receivers a ton of room to make catches. It wouldn't have mattered, though, if it wasn't for that last coverage breakdown. If nothing else, you have to recognize that Luck can run so you have to have someone in front of the end zone to watch him.
Calling a run around left end (where the Lions have performed worst by far) on a 3rd and 5 wasn't so hot either. Play to your strengths!
I'll have to rewatch the final TD, but I have to imagine you're right and it was a blown coverage. Even if the plan was to sit on the goal line and force the underneath throw, they left a huge chunk of field open. I'll also have to check the Colts routes, though. It may simply have been good offensive route design.
It looks like bad defensive design by the Lions. Justin Durant was shadowing Avery across the field on the goal line. He just doesn't keep up with him though, and even worse, hesitates for a split second just before the throw, thinking Luck my try to run it in. That hesitation made him a step late getting to Avery as he crossed the goal line.
Now, why they have an OLB shadowing a fast WR across the field, I have no idea...
Just watched a loop of the touchdown (on gizmodo, I think) and I can't tell what the Lions were trying to do. When Avery crossed the goal line, there were four Lions standing flat-footed on the end zone stripe, with a big gap between two them that Avery ran right through.
"Red Rover, Red Rover, send Donnie right--oops...Never mind."
Bullshit fucking referees! The safety was ridiculous, the ball clearly crossed the line of scrimmage, the TD was short, the personal foul on Goldson on the final drive was bullshit, non existent hold on Staley killed a drive in the second quarter. There were some bad calls on the Rams too but the niners got hosed. Fire those shit officials, they were awful.
The referees were so bad that they summoned irrational Karl.
I thought the ball was out of bounds before it crossed the LoS, while it was out of bounds it clearly went farther but it's where it goes out of bounds that matters. Though I haven't really looked at replays, saw it live, then saw one of the replays (I'm sure they showed more but I wasn't around). I haven't bothered to look it up online yet.
Was the Goldson PF the one where Bradford had clearly slid and he came in and hit him like two seconds later, or was that earlier in the game?
I had no horse in that race but it's the game that was on where as I at, and while I wasn't watching closely the whole game, I don't think officiating was that bad.
I do agree on the TD being short though.
The line of scrimmage is like the goal line, in that it extends to infinity. Where the ball crossed the sideline amounts to a hill of beans.
The goal line no longer extends to infinity. They changed that a few years back. The ball's innermost edge must now cross the goalline inside the pylon's outermost edge.
I don't know whether that change also applies to the line of scrimmage.
In the case of intentional grounding, I thought the rule was that the ball had to reach the line of scrimmage while still in the field of play, that it wasn't the same as the old TD rules (which as has been pointed out were changed). So the sideline does matter if I understand the rule correctly.
Not according to Mike Periera (is that spelt correctly?) on the Fox broadcast, plus watch out for it, qbs do that all the time.
When a qb is throwing the ball away the LOS extends beyond the field of play, the throw doesn't have to cross the sideline over the LOS and it landed a yard or two past the LOS. What really bugs me about that is it's a scoring play and the evidence was clear but they didn't take a look at it. Without those two points the Rams lose.
The Goldson PF was not two seconds late, they didn't even call him for a late hit, they called him for helmet to helmet, which it wasn't. Bradford slid late and Goldson had committed himself, Goldson then tried to pull up but ended up with his side landing on Bradford. That's my take anyway, if the defender has begun their tackle attempt as the qb starts to slide they are allowed to contact the qb as long as they let up.
Quinn got PFd for hitting Kaepernick's helmet when he didn't, they called an illegal shift on Tukuafu for moving towards the LOS at the snap when he clearly wasn't, bogus holds on Staley and one on the Rams' left guard, false start called on Saffold that should have been offsides on Aldon Smith.
The refs were crap, really crap but those 2 points burnt the niners more.
1-10-STL 14(2:00) C.Kaepernick pass incomplete short right to D.Walker.
2-10-STL 14(1:54) F.Gore left tackle to STL 12 for 2 yards. PENALTY on SF-D.Walker, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at STL 14 - No Play.
2-20-STL 24(1:47) F.Gore right guard to STL 25 for -1 yards (J.Dunbar).
Timeout #2 by STL at 01:44.
3-21-STL 25(1:44) C.Kaepernick right end ran ob at STL 15 for 10 yards (Q.Mikell).
4-11-STL 15(1:38) D.Akers 33 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Jennings, Holder-A.Lee.
This was the 49ers' last possession in regulation. The Rams IIRC had two timeouts left. Why are they passing on first down? There is litterally no upside to going for the endzone there. Even if you score you are still giving the Rams the ball at the 20 with 1:50 and two timeouts down 7.
If you instead follow the conventional strategy, you run it three times and kick the go-ahead with around 30 seconds remaining (and no Rams timeouts left).
All of this was of course made worse by Kaepernick running out of bounds on the third down play - but thats hardly the fault of Harbaugh and company.
While you can criticise the strategy, it was execution that killed them on that first down as Delanie Walker dropped a catch in the end zone and also Kaepernick should have stayed inbounds.
Well that's my point - is it even good for the 49ers to score there? I think a kneeldown is better than a TD in that spot.
In other words, the strategy set them up to fail.
a) if they'd scored a TD on that drive, they would have won the game
b) a mixed attack that uses passing is far more likely to score a TD than the conventional "dive into the line" attack
c) They're the SF 49ers. They have one of the best defenses in the league. They're not going to worry about things like "Even if you score you are still giving the Rams the ball at the 20 with 1:50 and two timeouts down 7." When you have a good defense, you take the TDs when you can get them. You don't worry about managing the clock to keep your defense off the field.
a) Thats posterior. Just because the Rams didn't end up scoring doesn't mean they never will in a situation like that.
b) Why is scoring a TD even a priority? Sure on third down it has value, but focus should be on using time.
c) Thats just stupid. If the defense is so good how come they let the Rams tie it?
a) It's not just posterior. A TD is four more points than a TD. And it would have likely ended the game then and there. You have to have confidence in your defense's ability to stop the opposing team from driving the length of the field in less than two minutes.
b) No, the focus should be on scoring a TD. The best that a FG does is lead to overtime, which is roughly a 50-50 chance of winning. If the 49ers had gotten a TD on that drive, their odds winning the game would have been considerably higher than 50%.
c) Hard to imagine how you use the phrase "that is just stupid" to anybody else when you make the argument that clock management is more important than scoring TDs.
I can easily construct a situation where clock management is more important than scoring touchdowns. Mike Homlgren agrees.
But OK let me put it this way. It's not about some philosophical TDs-vs-FGs debate. I'm giving you the choice between
A) Rams ball at their 20 with 1:50 and 2 TOs down 7.
B) Rams ball at their 20 with 0:30 and 0 TOs down 3.
Wouldn't you say B is better for the 49ers (even with Greg the Leg on the other team)? There's even the added upside that I can virtually guarantee you B (three kneeldowns and a +95% FG). However if you go for A that may end up resulting in
C) Rams ball at their 20 with 1:10 and 0 TOs down 3.
I don't think thats close. I don't know if it's about the strenght of the defense either - if the defense is unlikely to give up a TD with much time on the clock it is also unlikely to give up a FG with little time on the clock.
My math was a bit off because I had been watching several games at once and had confused which game was in which situation. So I was thinking that the 49ers were down three when they kicked their last FG. But no, that was the Bears. I was thinking that the 49ers FG only got them into OT. But the Rams were the team that tied the game to go into OT.
Yes, in this case, the 49ers should have been burning clock. In that situation, a FG with little time on the clock should win the game. So we can consider that a "victory state", though, really, a TD with 1:50 on the clock should be a victory state, too.
I'm still confused at how the 49ers left the Rams move the ball late in the game. But really, the killer play was the fumble that led to the Rams' only TD.
Oh. All is good then. Was starting to doubt my own sanity there... :D
John Fox with the old take timeout then challenge the play. If there's even a tiny chance you are going to challenge, then throw the flag.
Hold on: It seems Manning was so sure TB had 12 men on the field that *HE* called the timeout. Don't know what to think about that.
They should give Peyton a red flag so he can call for challenges himself.
Who doubts he would be better than 50% of the coaches?
Absolutely. Every gameday decision that can be taken out of Fox' hands and put into Mannings hands should be.
You know, hiring Fox as coach and then signing Manning as QB was really a good decision. Fox is and always had been a good defensive coach, and Manning is basically his own offensive coordinator. This way Fox can do what he does best, and everything works out right.
Oh absolutely - I'm not saying Fox is a bad coach. At all. He's just very conservative in his strategic decisions - something I'm positive Manning would improve.
Well, whoever was calling all the running plays after the first drive probably shouldn't be allowed to make any more decisions.
Touché. My only counterpoint being that it was the Bucs terrific run-D. But I too was about ready to abandon the run midway in the second quarter.
Moreno drops a would be 3rd-and-2 conversion. I may have underestimated the significance of McGahees injury.
Clearly I'm out of the loop. Setting aside the obvious fact that he's not very good, how did Tebow end up not being the backup QB today?
Cracked ribs from the Seahawks game.
He's got two broken ribs. He shouldn't have been dressed for the Thanksgiving game.
Still, there's no point in ignoring the obvious.
Ravens get pick off throw by Antonio Brown. Anybody who's not a QB needs to know that they should never throw a pass into coverage of any sort. A cross-field pass isn't that easy to make.
The referee in the PIT-BAL game looks like Jimmy Kimmel.
It's a close game, so the Steelers go with a receiver end around pass... which is ok if the defense bites and if the receiver doesn't throw it when it's not there.
On this occasion - the defense DIDN'T bite, Brown threw it across the field for an interception.
And a few plays later - the Ravens score a TD...
Peyton Manning just completed a pass to guy who ws already on the ground just past the first down marker. He just lobbed It up and over the defender running at him. What a great play!
The Broncos need to shake this habbit of starting slow. That'll cost them in the playoffs - you can't spot, say, the Patriots 10 points in the first quarter.
Can't believe I'm saying that - wins are no longer good enough for me. 3 months of Peyton Manning and I'm already spioled.
Yup--that's what a Hall of Fame QB does for you.
It's good to spoiled, so long as you realize it. I can remember Colts games where he'd have 2 or three drives that were just flawless, maybe be 10 of 12 for 200 yards on three drives with 2 TD passes and a perfect mix of play-calls to keep the D off-balance, and you carry that in your mind and feel angry that he didn't score 8 TDs and rack up 500 yards, despite a 14-pt winning margin. Or he'll have 200 yards at the half and you figure, great, a 400 yard 4-TD pass game, which never really happens that way. On Colt discussion boards, we often spoke of how spoiled we were, especially when we watch another team's QB (or our backups last year) crap the bed. Enjoy life with a HOFer--get a couple Lombardis before the Indianpolis Lucks find a defense.
Manning is the real deal. Years from now, I think my grandchildren will be impressed that I saw him play in Indianapolis with my own eyes. Much the same as I would be meeting someone who saw Babe Ruth play at Yankee stadium.
However, I do worry about the effect legalized marijuana will have on Manning's audibles at the line. Have to watch out for that, Broncos. He could go on for a while.
Treat him well, will you? He didn't always get the respect he deserved, even in Indianapolis.
And yeah, you can spot the Patriots 10 points in the first half if you've got him taking the snaps. As evidence, I submit the 2006 AFC championship game.
That is the downside of having a hall-of-fame QB on your roster. If a few years ago the Colts had squeaked by a team like they did today, all the talk would have been about why they didn't win by more and what went wrong. Instead, now, Colts fans can just enjoy a close exciting game and celebrate a win.
The curse of high-expectations...
Von Miller pick-6. Ballgame.
The Broncos have a real shot at (O)MVP *AND* DMVP
JJ Watt is the DPOTY. What he's done and continues to do this season, especially at his position is monumental. None else is really in the conversation.
Ravens are so lucky. Emanuel Sanders catches it over the middle, has 50 yards of clear space in front of him, and he fumbles it without anyone touching him. Ravens ball.
FOX (Denver game) just showed a graphic with the Bears at 9-3 and the Seahawks at 6-6...
They probably still have Romney winning the election, too.
Peyton with the hard count gives Moreno a chance to get an easy run. All that's left is to hope some TB star player gets a knee destroyed trying to jump the knee.
This Pitt-Bal game is a barn-burner!
(channelling my inner Keith Jackson)
Ugh, very questionable roughing the passer puts Pittsburgh in FG range. But the Ravens can't pull every game out of their ass, they were outplayed anyways.
I thought it was pretty obvious RtP. He not only runs into Batch, he gives a forearm shove in the neck/back area.
I guess I don't know what RtP is these days then. Since when is a shove in the back roughing? I guess if you consider the back close to the neck, and the neck close to the head, it would be roughing. But the ref didn't mention anything about hitting him in the head/neck area. Kruger took one step after Batch released the ball, which I thought was legal. He didn't leave his feet, hit Batch in the head, or lead with the helmet.
"Shove" sounds pretty tame. It was a clear forearm to the head in this case.
Well I just watched the replay on nfl.com. It was a shove to the back, not even close to any contact to the head. Check it out if you don't believe me, because I'm not sure what you saw that was so clear.
Just watched it. You're right in that one hand was on his back, but the other was high on the shoulder sliding up to the helmet. Not to mention that it was late. It wasn't the most egregious example of roughing, but I thought it was a fair call.
I think that hit was roughing solely because it was a late hit. It wasn't particularly rough.
Well the defender only takes one step after the ball is released before contacting Batch, which I think is legal. Again, I thought is was very questionable, it seems like at that stage in the game you'd want to be sure about that sort of call. Good job by Batch complaining to the officials, he was whining earlier that drive about a legal Ngata hit. A veteran move reminiscent Tom Brady.
I'd just like to see the Ravens-Steelers game decided on something other than a call like that. Suisham probably would have converted anyways, but it would have been 50+ at that point.
Not sure how Ngata leading with the crown of his helmet and spearing Batch is a legal play, but to each his own I guess...
Legal? Perhaps. Certainly unnecessary and IMHO set the stage for the borderline call that followed.
Might not have been the prettiest win, but that was still an impressive game by the Steelers, particularly given their circumstances.
Is it me or are more half-empty stadiums than ever in the NFL. Where do you find blackout/attendance pecentage numbers
Happy for Chaz Batch. Everyone jumped all over him for last week's game. Clearly, he didn't play well, but Joe Montana would have been unlikely to overcome 8 freaking fumbles.
Cowboys O-Lineman is holding rusher by the neck from behind. What does it take to be called for holding these days?
And two plays later, lineman tries to release to follow Romo, but is clearly held by the jersey while he tries to turn. Seriously, what does it take???
I think maybe it's a heads or tails thing. Very arbitrary anyway. Of course it will all get better when the regular refs come back.
I can't believe it. Masterful clock management by the Eagles at the end of the second quarter to get a FG.
Dallas' safety play has been so poor this half that they put in Eric Frampton in deep coverage at the end of the first half. Maybe they can see if Peter Frampton wants a shot too. It couldn't hurt. Oh, their backup ILBs have looked pitiful too.
"Maybe they can see if Peter Frampton wants a shot too"
That would be so great! The headlines write themselves:
"Dallas defense, with addition of Frampton, comes alive."
"When it comes to pass coverage, Frampton shows team the way."
"Frampton ejected for breaking all the rules."
As the clock ticks down to the two-minute warning without the Eagles getting a play off, it's good to see that in this year where Philly is making all kinds of uncharacteristic mistakes game after game...it's nice to see that they're still making the same old mistakes that they made during the good years, too.
It's unlikely, but possible, that after next week the AFC could be down to 7 teams that are mathematically alive for the playoffs (including the three that have already clinched a spot). That seems crazy with three weeks to go. (To accomplish this, the Colts, Steelers and Bengals all have to win and the Jets, Bills and Dolphins all have to lose... I think I have that right, anyway.)
Also strange (and harder to describe), if Houston and Indianapolis win and Denver and Baltimore lose next week, Houston will be in a position where they cannot be caught by any of the teams outside their division, but still would not have clinched their division. If that situation occurs, the only two possible outcomes for the Texans with three weeks to go would be a #1 seed or a #5 seed. Of course, their magic number with regards to the Colts would be 1 at that point, but it's still interesting to me as a one week condition.
But as the trade-off for the lack of overall mystery about who from the AFC will make the playoffs, we should be rewarded with a pretty damned good battle for the 2-4 seeds. And the fans of Pittsburgh, Indianapolis and Cincinnati should have some interesting water cooler conversations over the next month, especially once Indy begins their "two Houston games in three weeks" odyssey.
I don't think there's that much mystery here. It is very likely the Colts will be the 5 and the winner of Bengals-Steelers in Week 16 will be the 6.
There's more doubt about the 2 seed, but it's fairly likely the Broncos will win out, as the rest of their schedule is soft, while the Patriots lose one of their next two (Texans, 49ers) and have to settle for the 3 seed. It has to happen that way, though, as the Patriots have the tiebreaker.
And you know, the battle for the 1 seed isn't over quite yet. It's possible the Patriots beat the Texans next week and go on to win out while the Texans lose one of their two games against the Colts, which would give the Patriots the 1 seed. That also opens a scenario where the Broncos win out, finish 13-3, and get a 3 seed on the tiebreakers.
In case I wasn't clear above (I had had a few beers at the time of the writing) I know that the race for the #1 seed is still open. I was referring to it in the framework of the scenario I had laid out.
In a playoff race that lacks intrigue overall, creating improbable scenarios in my head is something I'm probably going to do a lot of.
I wouldn't be too sold on the Colts as the #5 seed quite yet. They have both of their divisional games with Houston remaining. Seems unlikely that they'll sweep the Texans.
As for the Steelers-Bengals matchup, that's the toughest game left on the Steelers' schedule. They host both the Chargers and Browns (in addition to Cincy) and their only road game is in Dallas.
How's the tiebreaker situation look? I guess that the Colts would likely have the advantage in terms of conference record, if it came to that.
You think a road game in Baltimore is "soft" for the Broncos? I wouldn't go quite that far.
Yeah, with the Colts not playing the Steelers or Bengals this year, it's most likely going to be a Conference Record tiebreaker. As of today, the Colts are 5-3 in conference and the Steelers and Bengals are 4-5 and 5-5, respectively. So the Colts are in the driver's seat for tiebreakers as well as record. But things can change pretty fast when you have to play Houston twice in three weeks, I suppose.
I think the Colts have a pretty good shot at splitting with the Texans, which would guarantee them the 5 seed. They can lose twice to the Texans and still nab the 5 if they take care of the Flaming Thumbtacks and Chiefs. With the tiebreakers they might even be able to lose all their games except the Chiefs and still get the 5, as it's very unlikely Pittsburgh or Cincinnati is winning more than 9 games.
The Ravens just lost at home to a Steelers team that is injured as all hell, has no running game, is led by a third string quarterback, and was coming off a loss to the Browns and barely edging out the Chiefs. 40 years of success causes us all to see the word "Steelers" and think "great team". Right now the Steelers are objectively a pretty bad team.
So yeah, I count the Ravens as a soft game for the Broncos.
A mere 4 years ago, the Colts had 12 wins in a league where only one team had 13 or more wins, their division rival Tennessee.
This was the same season the Pats missed the playoffs in spite of having 3 wins more than the AFC West winning Chargers.
In 1999, Tennessee finished 13-3. And behind the 14-2 Jacksonville Jaguars in the AFC Central.
Jon Gruden refers to DeAngelo Hall as a "shutdown corner." This is Simms-grade stupidity. Possibly even Theismann-grade.
Gruden is constantly bs-ing. Any player in front of him on any given week is magically raised to being one of the elite at his position.
Is it just me, or has Pierre Garcon looked a *lot* better with Washington this year than he ever did with Indy?
I always thought Garcon was pretty explosive when he was with Indy. But he hasn't played that much for the Skins so far. He's definitely the best athlete they have at WR.
Shanahan doesn't really know how to manage the clock at the end of the half, it seems.
So far the Redskins' secondary looks way too slow to deal with Victor Cruz.
Well done, Redskins. Well done.
The Redskins' first TD takes the concept of "fumble luck" to a new level.
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