Talk amongst yourselves
7/22: Incorporated Watt injury, Bell suspension.
7/20: IDP players now included
* * * * *
The 2016 KUBIAK fantasy football projection workbook updates all preseason for only $20 -- or get it absolutely free with a $10 first-time deposit at FanDuel.com. Purchase it here!
Target release date: August 1
Top 35 quarterbacks charted for 2015 with scouting notes. PDF only $9.99
Click here to buy PDF version
Need help on FanDuel or DraftKings? Purchase a subscription from the website that specializes in daily fantasy.
01 Dec 2013
Argue about Thanksgiving side dishes here. Or talk about football, I guess.
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 01 Dec 2013
139 replies , Last at
03 Dec 2013, 3:50pm by
I was hoping 10 would regenerate into 12... Anyway 12 is my favorite quarterback and Nelson is my favorite companion... Although I know some fans like 4, especially with head writer Holmgren
So much for Reggie Bush's promise not to fumble again...
So I guess the Packers' path to victory is going to be "hope for turnovers and field goals at the end of Detroit's many long drives."
...or at the start of their very short ones.
At least the Detroit defense isn't getting overworked.
So far, that seems to be working.
Two low punt snaps already, and now Masthay has to reach high for another off-target snap. The Packers are begging to get a punt blocked on a bad snap.
All six teams playing today are playoff contenders (none more than a game out of a playoff spot), yet only two are over .500, and those teams are only over by a single game. A lot of mediocrity this year.
It should really be like 38-0 right now.
I'd say 38-3. The long FG by Crosby was legit.
Agreed. They should have been up by 4 scores.
I have been saying for weeks and feel pretty strongly that GB is currently the league's worst team
I am astounded at how many mistakes the Lions can make. If they did that in a football game, no way they are even close.
The 26th-ranked Lions special teams unit might actually be overrated on this performance.
I don't really understand the point of kicking off toward the corner. Surely, the five yards of lost depth on the kick outweighs whatever benefit there is in limiting the return, particularly given the risk of hitting the kick out of bounds.
I kinda get that you want to cut off half the field for the returner, but you've got a rookie kicker.
Martin kicks one into the stands, finally. Why didn't you do that before?
Happy Holiday day everyone.
Ridiculous holding call on that Ross return! The Packer guy had the Lion by the facemask!
I really wonder what the kicker was saying when he kicked it out of bounds. He was complaining about something, but I can't imagine who or what else than himself he should be complaining about.
I think he was just really mad at himself. And he should be.
"it shows a good picture of what the quarterback is seeing on the field"
... and they never ever use that picture during a play.
Packer defenders seem unable to make tackles unless they have three guys on the runner. That's not good.
Matthew Stafford has so many different throwing motions that he is Vitruvian Quarterback.
It's only weird when it doesn't work.
Those half time shows are beyond FUBAR. They weren't even pretending that she was the one singing.
Can't they get real musicians in there again? Prince was awesome in Miami.
These days, if they're not connected with a network talent show, forget it.
What is a McGloin and why is it throwing deep passes into coverage?
I believe it has something to do with a Kirkcudbright Centipede.
McGloin has played OK overall I think. I've certainly seen a lot more inept QB play this season. The end-zone pick wasn't a terrible decision/throw, the guy was in single coverage but the DB made a nice play. It isn't his fault that the Raiders defense has fallen apart in the second half.
Those jump balls and back-shoulder throws look a lot better when the DB isn't looking at the QB.
There was more inept QB play earlier in the day by the QB McGloin beat out in Oakland. All I have to say as a Packers fan is that game was an embarrassment.
Pretty textbook pass interference from William Gay on that Flacco bomb. Not sure what the refs (didn't) see.
Not sure what the refs (didn't) see.
The more I watch, the more I don't understand what constitutes interference. I don't recall ever seeing a defensive back go through a receiver on an underthrown ball and not having interference called before...
The announcers praised Gay for turning his head around, but it was barely credible. He absolutely prevented the receiver from attempting to catch the ball.
Refs seem to be swallowing the whistle in general. 3 separate after-the-play skirmishes have gone unflagged now. Personally I'd prefer it if they clamped down on this nonsense early otherwise discipline can be lost completely.
When will one of the refs wake up and throw a flag during one of the post-play scrums? It's not going to stop without at least one flag.
Wow. Horrific blunder by the Pittsburgh field goal unit. Was that a fake gone wrong? Or did Suisham just mistime his run up?
Suisham went on the 'hut' of the holder, the snapper couldn't hear it.
The way Worilds was going after Oher at the end of the half there, I think it was wise to let the time expire and regroup for the second half.
Le'veon Bell was hit hard, lost consciousness and his helmet on the way down and fell hard with his bare head on the floor. He was motionless on the field, players praying to their deity of choice, and Bell stood up after a good while and looked around looking for his car and was asking the trainers why there was grass on the parking lot.
All joking aside, Michelle Tafoya then says that Bell was taken to the locker room for 'a potential concussion'.
Let me assure you: that wasn't narcolepsy that Bell was suffering.
In related news.
Last week Chris Collinsworth mentioned to the world that his most severe concussions as a receiver came from hitting the floor with his head as opposed to hits from another player.
Fast forward a week and now he says that his worst 'concussion syndromes' came from hitting the floor.
It's remarkable to note that no one is suffering a concussion anymore; they all suffer 'concussion syndrome'.
I guess that player safety thing is paying off.
All concussions are a syndrome; they are a set of symptoms, as opposed to being a specific anatomical injury. As such, they are "syndromes."
I meant 'symptoms' where I said 'syndromes'.
To me it sounds as if they don't want to say there are concussions in the NFL; only symptoms - as if that's any better.
Don't you think it's remarkable?
Combined number of licensed medical doctors on announcing teams: zero.
Steelers just placed Velasco on IR with the Achilles injury he suffered on Thursday.
Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for internet relay football chat!
Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE
4th-and-one at midfield. Arians goes for it and calls an inside handoff to Mendenhall. I feel like thats a call old schoolers would hate because they'd kick it away and statheads would hate because Ellington probably is the better option... If it had failed that is.
Fitz scored on a strong catch-and-run a couple of plays later btw.
I know it was an impossible situation, but I really think the Colts kept the wrong head coach.
Wow. I haven't heard that yet, but it is interesting. How the hell would any owner/GM handle that one? It also puts a shit-ton of pressure on the new guy to out-do 2012. What if the team falters? Man, Irsay and Grigson look heartless and stupid. What if he does okay? They still look heartless. What if they win it all? Well, okay, winning solves a lot of problems.
Funny, but last year it seemed obvious that the Arians bombs-away approach and a bad OL were going to get Luck killed. This year, less bombs-away, but still a putrid OL, and Luck is hammered at least as much, though he is as durable as the love child of Bret Favre and Cal Ripkin (for now).
That's really intriguing. A bit reactionary, but good for a late-night discussion over a few pints.
It's not all that intriguing. You can't fire an employee for contracting a potentially fatal illness without a huge PR hit, unless said employee gets a huge compensatory settlement.
You can also argue that Arians might not have gotten a HC offer if not for Pagano's unfortunate medical circumstances.
Ellington would have been a great option if he wasn't inactive.
If Matt Sims doesn't start the second half the Jets are crazy. You can't play the QB position worse than Gino Smith right now. Well, OK, maybe Blaine Gabbert could.
4th-and-one from the one is automatic for Riverboat Ron. The color guy: "Riverboat Ron or not I'm kicking it. Check the analytics, take the points. [...] I do not wanna give Tampa a chance to change the momentum." Yeesh.
Newton jumped over the pile and crossed the goalline before fumbling. Dicy but not THAT close.
Wow, citing "momentum" as an argument and stating that the "analytics" say going for it on 4th-and-1 is a bad decision. Who's the color guy in that game? (And also, why is it a requirement that color commentators be bad at math?)
Color guy is Tim Ryan. He really doesn't bother me more than any other commentator; aggressive 4th down strategy just has a long way to go before it gains acceptance. I'd certainly rather listen to him than Simms or Dierdorf.
His 'analytics' probably don't go further than "FG is 3 points, going for it is maybe 0 points."
To go with the commercials: more is better.
Patriots only down by 10 at the half this week. It's important for a team to be improving at this time of the season.
Wow, the Dolphins ran more plays in the first half (50) than the Jets had yards (39). Incredible. It's still only 6-0, though.
Simms in to start the second half.
Okay, I've decided. Belichek is actually some kind of demonic entity that literally drinks in the despair of the opposition fans to maintain his unholy half-life, so he's deliberately having his team tank in the first half in order to let hope build up so he can better crush it later. ^_^
Agreed. I have it on good authority that he only loses games in order to shame his own team. Further, he dines on the dreams of children and bathes in the blood of angels. In short, he's my hero.
@DEW (#51) Hmmph! When the Colts do it they're merely slow starters who can't keep living on the edge like that.... I'm not saying you're wrong, but you may be going just a LITTLE overboard there.
Do you think he feeds off these emotions? Is that how he keeps so slim? Is a new BB diet book coming out soon: "Stay Trim by Feeding off Others' Emotional Turmoil the BB Way!"
Okay, you've convinced me. I just pre-ordered the diet book on Amazon.
Josh Gordon is absolutely white hot.
Colts first and goal at the 4. Richardson stopped at the line for no gain. Shocked, shocked!
Colts 2nd and goal at the 4. Brown up the middle. Touchdown.
Proof that Richardson should have been in there. The OL didn't block on the first play and decided to on the second. It's that simple. If the coach had only switched the order of the backs, Richardson would have all Brown's good runs! Must be a conspiracy.
The Jaguars fail at the one thing they were absolutely brilliant in; losing.
I was thinking... Maybe the Jaguars, like the Bobcats in the NBA, have been so bad for so long that, rather than tank, it may be in their interest to win some games and establish some sort credibility as a franchise, in order to sell tickets, lure in free agents etc.
Of course, no one in the building of a franchise wants to lose.
Only fans think in ways of "getting the #1 pick".
Owners, GMs, Coaches, players all play for their jobs and to phrase Herm: "you play to win the game". It's in everybody's interest to win games.
well the 2013/2014 Utah Jazz, Boston Celtics and Philadelphia 76'ers disagree.
I don't know how the NBA works.
You don't want to know, either.
There is probably no major pro sport where one player makes as much a difference than basketball. You usually need a superstar to have a chance at the championship. Almost all superstars were picked at the top of the draft. Jordan was a third pick. Kevin Durant was a second pick. LeBron, Kareem, Tim Duncan, Shaq, and many others were the first pick. Next year's draft looks to be the most loaded in years. So many teams are tanking right now that only two of fifteen Eastern Conference teams have winning records. While some are legitimately bad, others have dumped players to be bad enough to qualify for the lottery. The lottery was specifically created so that the worst team didn't necessarily get the first pick, but only the best chance at the first pick.
Rams gonna Ram.
Thoughts on the Pats-Texans game
a) the Pats' run defense is really quite dubious
b) Kyle Arrington showed once again why Pats' fans hate having him on the outside. He let Andre Johnson make a catch 50 yards downfield, and then he blew the tackle, allowing Johnson to go another 15 yards.
c) the Texans are better than a 2-win team
d) that the Texans only have 2 wins has to fall on Kubiak's head.
No one on the Patriots is able to squeeze another gap than the one they're playing.
For example. Their Nose tackle isn't able to play the weak A gap and squeeze the strong A gap.
On different assignments, he isn't able to play the weak A and squeeze the strong B gap.
The ends are the same, they can't play containment and still squeeze the gap on the other side of the lineman they're playing.
"c) the Texans are better than a 2-win team"
The Texans are 30th in DVOA and have 2.6 estimated wins. So they're very slightly better than a 2-win team.
Well, as Parcells says, the Texans are in fact a 2-win team. I just felt like, watching today, they should be capable of playing better than that. They certainly played better than that last season.
Feels like the collapse is the fault of bad coaching.
Vikings gonna Viking.
Face mask cancels game-winning FG attemmpt.
As a Lions' fan, I was in favor of Ellison's execution on that play.
Chair or hanging, your pick.
CBS switched over to the final 30 seconds of the Browns game. Haven't watched the Browns this year. On passing plays, about half a second after the snap, the Browns left tackle would be hurled violently backward like he had been hit by a train.
Weeden, rolling out to the left, was almost knocked over twice by his own teammate.
Joe Thomas, really? I thought he was the Browns' best offensive player... after Trent Richardson, that is....
Uh, facemask on offense on a FG try? I've never heard that happen
Fireworks literally going off in the dome in Minnesota while the ref calls back the gamewinning FG for a personal foul. Ugh.
The call was absolutely BS btw. Yikes. Just a terrible call. Blair walsh misses the ensuing 57-yarder. The Vikings getting jobbed.
I thought the horsecollar call that set the Vikings up in that position was equally bad.
*sigh* That call after the facemask was so obvious, especially with that formation. The quality of playcalling so often matches the quality of QB in MN.
And Walsh pushes it. *sigh*
Bears gonna bear.
Chiefs gonna...throw into double-coverage in the end zone.
Why would you ice the kicker in OT? I mean if he misses, you might need those timeouts.
it's a Football Thing I guess.
I think it's retarded too.
And Gould pushes it right back. Maybe someone on the Vikings will try not to f' it up this time.
The Vikings could very easily get their second consecutive tie. I'm not sure that they didn't deserve the win, though. They never showed a good replay, but that facemask call looked questionable.
The side angle shows he hooked the mask with his hand. It was the correct call.
That said, so was the horsecollar. That AP was a freak doesn't negate that Conte tried to horsecollar him.
I don't know, to me (admittedly a Bears fan) Conte did put his hands on the shoulder pads but then removed both hands and tackled AP round the legs. Absolutely no risk of injury, why throw a flag?
Just before Conte slips down to the legs to make the tackle, you can see AP start to get bent over backwards by the horsecollar. If he isn't a Terminator, and instead gets bent all the way over, you get a Roy Williams Special.
In Mannings defense, that int on 3rd-and-9 was not any worse than an incompletion + a 40-yard punt.
You know, AP wanted another 2000 yard season (well, 2500). Maybe the Vikings could work on getting 5 quarters every game.
Chiefs running it down the Broncos' throats.
Demayrius Thomas questionable to return with a shoulder injury. Chiefs running the ball well and up 7-0 at home. Have a bad feeling about this.
Ah, that's nice and refreshing after watching the Vikings game. Beautiful strike by Manning to Decker. Earlier Smith TD throw was nice too.
Nice to see the Broncos finding a way to not blow a lead.
Maybe that game against the Chargers woke the Chief's offense up. This has been much more exciting than last time.
Mannings showes off his deep ball. Three times to Decker today.
Rough day for Cooper. Decker and D. Thomas taking turns blowing by him.
Jeff Fisher is apparently the kind of guy who'll go all in on an inside straight draw. Your move Riverboat.
I feel bad for Marcus Cooper at this point.
Did Cooper like make a pass at Peyton's wife or crack some jokes on his mom? Dude's getting bonfired.
More like, did he make a pass at Andy Reid's daughter (or the DC's), because they sure didn't give him any help against Decker.
I love watching KC's O-line move in space. It's nice to see that the bigs haven't forgot how to get down field. Just think Dallas, Andy could have been ours- but really, who am I kidding.
That sure looked like a fumble, cest le vie.
Not a good decision by Smith on his last pass. Just get the 1st down.
But hey, Montee Ball might fumble!
Life is hard when you're up against a QB who can draw DPIs by throwing passes 5 yds past his receivers.
As inconsistent as PI is called I don't think that call was noticeably bad
The receiver was pushed in the direction the ball was going but it was still out of reach. That's not a bad call?
I don't understand what is uncatchable anymore. (Lest anyone think I'm just a bitter Pats fan, Carolina got the same benefit today early against TB.)
"Fling it ten feet over the receiver's head" = "catchable."
"Try to throw it low through a wall of bodies" = "uncatchable."
That's pretty much it. Basically, the refs assume every wide receiver is Plastic Man.
Can we just fast-forward to tomorrow night's Seahawks/Saints game please?
I was a little surprised to hear Collinsworth talking about how RG3 could improve by being more like Russell Wilson. I've been a Seahawk fan for a long time (the Largent hit on Harden was the favorite highlight of my childhood), and I can't think of any time a Seahawk quarterback has ever been mentioned as a role model on national TV.
Also quite the reversal in their respective national profiles from last year, of course.
Maybe he meant that RGIII should have Marshawn Lynch in the backfield.
Alfred Morris is no slouch.
Don't sell him short; he's a TREMENDOUS slouch.
(okay, Caddyshack reference aside, I agree with you--they both have stud RBs)
Horrid interception from Eli. Just a terrible throw. The receiver was only 10 yards downfield and he threw it right over his head. What's happened to him this year?
Yikes! Are the replacement refs back? What down is it?
The ending of the game is a complete embarrassment for the NFL. They tell Shanahan he has a 1st down, so he calls a play appropriate for 1st down, a long pass downfield. And then Triplette tells him that it's now 4th down.
That's completely unreasonable. Had the Redskins thought they had a 3rd and short, they would have called a play appropriate for 3rd and short. The fact that they ended up getting the yardage on 4th down, and then the Giants stole the ball, doesn't let the NFL off the hook for what Jeff Triplette did.
That ending was terrible on a number of different levels. First of all it looked like a bad spot to me (I thought it was a first on forward progress), though that's debatable. Then they decide not to measure…? One way or another there has to be a measurement. Then there was the down debacle. Even if they'd officiated that correctly, the Giants would've had cause to complain since the original spot was obviously short of a first. Luckily neither team is a contender for the playoffs, so it won't matter in the long run…
It's a sad day when "well, it shouldn't matter that much" is the only defense left to the NFL.
Jeff Triplette really needs to be fired. This isn't the first time he's made a mistake of this nature. He blinded Orlando Brown by throwing a beanbag flag into his eye!
The non-measurement was mystifying. The miscommunication inconceivable. The fact that once they realized the f-up and didn't stop to try to fix or at least explain things..... I am just shaking my head. ("Hey wait dude, I just told him he had a first and now you're telling me it's a third? Let's stop everything RIGHT NOW. Or let's call a refs timeout and declare that incomplete pass play invalid, and continue with a third and one.")
If I was Shanny, and it's a good thing I am not, I would be in jail right now for repeatedly ramming my fist down someone's pie hole for bending me over and telling me it was no big deal. Then even before I called my own defense attorney, I'd spend my one phone call from the slammer looking for somebody to sue the refs and the NFL. I am not remotely a fan of that team, but am incredibly pissed on their behalf.
Don't forget the "fumble" on the very next play resulting from a player being yanked to the ground by his helmet and thus in no position to protect the football.
But it doesn't matter because, you know, the Redskins had only 3 wins. Therefore their fans who pay hundreds of dollars per ticket have no reason to expect fair officiating.
"I don't think Drew Brees even has a pulse right now." - Jon Gruden, who seems to think the Saints' QB is a zombie.
Why is it, every time I see Kearse's name mentioned, it's because he's dropping the ball?
...Kicking a FG on 4th-and-1 on the two-yard-line against the Saints. Why?
It made perfect sense given the conditions at the time. While Seattle probably could have made it, Seattle was in not only total control of the game at the time, and had all the momentum and crowd support (huge in Seattle). You go for it and not make it, and you risk deflating all that. Better to take the points, put the Saints in a deeper hole, and trust to your special teams and defense (both of which are stellar).
Naw, you go for it and fail, the crowd in Seattle will give you more. I would actually expect that to be true in any venue.
Did anyone else turn this off due to the background noise levels? I can take noise on big plays, but this is too much, and honestly it borders on unsportsmanlike conduct.
I wonder when OSHA is going to notice.
If they do notice the NFL, I wonder what they'll think about 200+ pound men running into each other as fast as they can.
"Unsportsmanlike conduct" on crowd noise? Ever wanted to see a game get shut down by the fans?
I wonder at the implications of the NFL praising the excessive loudness of home games in Seattle. Repeated exposure to noise levels of 100 db is going to cause hearing problems for at least some Seahawks season ticket holders. Actually the threshhold is below 100 db, and MNF is reporting that the noise level tonight is above 120 db.
It isn't as loud in the stands as it is on the field.
The OSHA cutoff if 85db. I would not go into that stadium without hearing protection. Admittedly, 4+ hours eight times a year is not a massive overexposure but if one were a cop, firefighter, etc. I would not take the gamble. The Seahawks may be required to give hearing protection to all of the people who work in the stadium. Time to throw up the Industrial Hygiene light.
I haven't loved the Seahawks this much since Zorn was throwing it to Largent. The spanking they're putting on the Saints tells me that my beloved hometown Panthers are taking the NFC South.
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties