Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

16 Dec 2009

Week 15 Open Discussion Thread

I remembered to make the thread in time! Talk about the Week 15 games here.

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 16 Dec 2009

179 replies , Last at 22 Dec 2009, 1:46am by DavidL

1
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 9:30pm

Well, there is a game going on so may as well get this started. I guess the big question is whether it is an interesting game, and that will likely depend on how much the Colts play for the win.

2
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by patriotsgirl :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 9:51pm

I have a strong feeling I'm going to regret starting Reggie Wayne...

3
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 9:53pm

We'll see - the Colts should have another 3 possessions before this thing is over.

8
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by patriotsgirl :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:29pm

2 possessions down, 2 catches. Sigh. And my opponent has Manning, so this Austin Collie and Dallas Clark nonsense isn't helping.

I had a bad feeling about Reggie (I'm benching 2 of Bush, Maroney (vs. Buf), Foster (vs. StL), and Holmes for him) but couldn't leave him on my bench.

24
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:55pm

When you initially posted this I almost said "but it's the Jags, so he's good for 1 big play even if he's otherwise silent." Then I decided that'd be a jinx. And he just came through with a big TD. How's that work for you?

25
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by patriotsgirl :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:58pm

Pretty well, thanks. Much better than a Manning TD to anyone else (and much, much better than Manning-to-Addai, as he has both).

I now look like an idiot, but the fact he was barely involved worried me a little.

(Now, if only Brees can duplicate Manning...)

4
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:06pm

Well, not exactly a good way to keep the defense off the field, but I suppose you can't complain about 7 points.

5
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:19pm

The Colts run D seems to be in end of season form

9
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:30pm

It's really tough to watch because they know exactly what's coming and just can't stop it. The same was true against Miami, but at least then we could just credit the awesome O Line play. Tonight has a lot more crappy play and missed tackling.

Speaking of O Line play, I'm noticing that sometimes they seem to expect Charlie Johnson to get beat, so they design the blocking around that. Kind of like how opponents just let Freeney go upfield and give him a little push, the TD to Collie looked like a designed step up in front of the rusher, who Johnson really had no reason to even try to square up.

Nothing groundbreaking about this technique, of course, but provided everyone else does his job, it's a good way to make up for Johnson's lack of outstanding athleticism.

6
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:24pm

I'm wearing my lucky Colts socks. They've worked thirteen times so far, so this game's already in the bag. I don't know why I even bother to watch.

7
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by qwe (not verified) :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:25pm

As a Pats fan, I should be pulling for Indy. And yet...

10
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:31pm

Jax should go for it here, not try the figgie.

11
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:32pm

...aaaaand it's a miss.
My lucky socks are never wrong.

12
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:34pm

I was execting a draw with 7 secs left with the way they have been gashing Indy on the ground

13
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:35pm

12 for 12 is just sick.

14
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 10:43pm

What I like about Indy's core strategy is that they are built around a fundamental Madden premise:

1)Get a Top QB and surround him with Weapons
2)Draft Speed on Defense
3)Focus on Pass D
4)Make Opponent execute 15 play drives to get a TD

17
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:12pm

They're also using Madden Cheat: F8571G
(Quarter Back on Target--QB hits target every time)

15
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by patriotsgirl :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:08pm

Horrible tackling there by Nelson.

And maybe I haven't had enough to drink, but I don't really get the Bud Light commercial with the guy fighting the giant squid.

16
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:09pm

It's starting to look like a shootout. Both QB's are playing very well. What a fun game to watch.

18
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:29pm

Should've gone for it on 4th & 3. Some coaches would've.

19
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:39pm

Manning to Dallas on 3rd and 12. Gah. That's just not fair.

20
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:45pm

Us Reggie Wayne and Joseph Addai FF owners agree, Paul.

22
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:53pm

well, he finally threw ya a bone. Indy back in front, but 5 minutes is alot for this defense to hold up.

21
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:53pm

wow. nice little pass and catch by the colts, although I suspect there might have been a missed coverage assignment there...

29
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:19am

The cornerback was "making the high-school mistake of looking into the backfield," and TMQ wrote "game over" in his notebook.

23
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Thu, 12/17/2009 - 11:55pm

Good news for Colts fans, and I expect all the Reggie Wayne owners are rejoicing too.

Be interesting to watch Jacksonville clock management now, they could score too fast, as well as not at all.

26
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:00am

ugh. as a packers fan, I know how Jacksonville fans must have felt on that 3rd down pass play...

27
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:04am

"The dallas cowboys are skating backwards now, and they have to stick their foot in the ground." At least the color commentator didn't say they have to plug the dike, something like that.

28
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:11am

pick and game. 14-0.

30
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by turbohappy (not verified) :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 12:56am

The crazy thing is that they've gone 14-0 and almost every game was watchable until pretty much the very end. Crazy stuff.

31
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 2:39am

As a Ravens fan it was odd rooting for the Colts, but I'm thrilled with the outcome. Ravens now control their destiny, if they win out they win the tie-brakers over MIA and NYJ, plus they have a head-to-head win over DEN.

Could Indy be nice and try to beat the Jets next week too please?

32
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 2:41am

It's nice to see that one truism of the NFL still remains valid: Twice a year, regardless of both team's relative strengths, the Jaguars will play the Colts in a hard-fought nail-biter, and lose.

...Cue another week of talking heads talking about how the Jaguars "exposed the Colts' weaknesses" and that they've got a strong feeling that next week will be a trap game for the Colts (assuming, of course, that it's not the Jim Sorgi Special), etc., etc., as has happened pretty much ever since the Miami game. Or the first Jags game. Or the preseason, really, since third place seemed to be the general expectation.

33
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Monkey Business (not verified) :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 9:24am

Can anything left on the Colts' schedule really be a "trap game" at this point? I mean, you know Coach Rex Ryan is going to throw the kitchen sink at the Colts. Depending on how this weekend goes, they could be eliminated from the playoffs already. Unfortunately for Indy, the only thing that gets players amped up enough to go nuts other than a late season playoff run is ruining an undefeated season.

I think it's not that the Jags are that good; I think that they're a divisional rival who's built to beat the Colts. I mean, everything that they've done, personnel wise, over the last few seasons has basically said "We're going to sell out the franchise to beat the Colts." Unfortunately for them, the 13-4 series record says they're not getting it done.

34
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by jedmarshall :: Fri, 12/18/2009 - 10:45am

Sorgi is on IR. It'd have to be a Curtis Painter special although I doubt we'll see that next week anyway.

Defense looked bad last night, but even though Freeney and Mathis both played they played sparingly and it was pretty obvious they were missed when off the field. Not to mention the #2 cornerback missing the whole game as well. That won't stop idiot "analysts" though. Ways to expose the Colts weakness: Make sure 3 important parts of their pass defense are injured.

35
Bad injury list for NE vs. BUF
by PatsFan :: Sat, 12/19/2009 - 9:26pm

NE has already ruled out:

DL Ty Warren
DL Vince Wilfork
DL Myron Pryor
OL Steven Neal
OL Nick Kaczur
RB Fred Taylor

Not looking good.

37
Re: Bad injury list for NE vs. BUF
by t.d. :: Sat, 12/19/2009 - 9:38pm

yeah, but it's against the fightin' Fitzpatricks

36
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by t.d. :: Sat, 12/19/2009 - 9:29pm

I've been terrified of this game against the Saints since the schedule came out, long before it had become clear that the Saints would be the juggernaut they've become. We just don't have it this year. But I couldn't have imagined a better start. Maybe this Saints defense really is terrible.

38
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by t.d. :: Sat, 12/19/2009 - 9:46pm

the Cowboys' line has been gashing the Saints. They haven't looked this goos all season.

39
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Bully (not verified) :: Sat, 12/19/2009 - 11:41pm

anyone else just see shockey packing a fatty on the sideline

40
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 12:16am

you have to be kidding.

41
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by 2468ben :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 12:54am

With all due respect and congratulations to the Cowboys, I hope they don't forget Nick Folk's miss under the "we won anyway" celebration.
When Tony Romo overcomes his second-greatest fear (behind starring in a 98 Degrees cover band) just to halt the kicking problems, and THAT happens, how do you keep faith? How do you not have trouble holding a gameplan?
This coming from a Philly fan who watched Charlie Manuel breast-feed Brad Lidge all season.

42
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Jeff M. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 1:26am

With both undefeated teams playing in primetime this week (with games that went right down to the wire), you really have to wonder why neither game was shown on television, huh?

43
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Still Alive (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 1:55am

Thats ok they apparently didn't need our dollars :)

44
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:52am

Do you wonder that on Monday nights?

45
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 1:58pm

A lot more households have ESPN than have the NFL Network.

48
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:05pm

*SICK* interception early against vince young.

50
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:28pm

just WOW at that Fitz touchdown....

51
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:29pm

that dwayne bowe drop was terrible

52
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:34pm

Josh Cribbs NFL record 7th kickoff return td

61
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 3:20pm

... and his 8th ....

53
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:36pm

I know most of you are watching the exciting tilt between KC and Cle, but for those of you who're stuck with a less dramatic game, Josh Cribbs just scored his 7th career kickoff return for a TD, setting a new NFL record.

55
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:38pm

besides the fact I already posted that, it amazes me so few people here apparently get sunday ticket..

57
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:51pm

A lot of people for whatever reason can't get Direct TV.

63
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 3:45pm

I hear this alot, but i think a better wording is "choose not to get"

92
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by t.d. :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:20pm

No, satellite isn't feasible everywhere. There are plenty of places where you can't get reception due to obstructions.

105
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:03pm

and people are being *forced* to live in these places?

just strikes me funny a site dedicated to *above average* analysis of the nfl, and people not caring enough to actually get/watch the entirety of the product.

153
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by SmokingClutch (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:37pm

Even most football fans aren't crazy enough to sell their house just to move somewhere they can get DirecTV.

In my case, I happen to *like* cable TV (naturally, I do NOT have Comcast), and am not interested in switching to satellite just for more football. If I have a game I simply MUST see, I'll go to a sports bar.

173
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 12:54am

as someone who LOVES football, and who has a 120"+ projection screen hdtv, who adopted hdtv in 2002 (and has since seen the devolution therein), the desire to have the MOST football in the LEAST CRAPPY quality, Directv is a must, so sunday ticket is a natural extension. compressed, multistatmuxed mpeg2 cable hdtv is pure abomination.

94
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by dmb :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:23pm

I guess I technically choose not to get it, but I think of it more as a decision to afford groceries every week, Christmas presents for my friends, and enough savings to keep my student loan debt semi-manageable.

54
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:37pm

deep TD to braylon edwards and he actually catches it. bizarro world...

60
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Falcon (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 3:11pm

Edwards will have a career day against Atlanta's secondary

56
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 2:41pm

Moss should have caught that, even through contact....

anyone else tired of hearing announcers use the word "vaunted" ? especially when it takes them 20 seconds and a replay to realize a clearly dropped ball was incomplete?

58
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by wlerj (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 3:01pm

Refs throw a flag anytime anyone goes after Brady's knees? MYTH BUSTED.

59
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 3:03pm

Another ten yards for Incognito going the wrong way...that signing is sure working out for Buffalo, isn't it?

62
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott P. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 3:21pm

Anyone not watching the CLE-KC game is missing crazy stuff. First Cleveland snaps the ball on 4th down, it goes off a man in the backfield, misses the punter, and the Chiefs recover for a TD.

Then, on the kickoff, Cribbs scores his second TD on a kickoff return _this game_.

64
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 4:08pm

Another penalty on Richie Incognito. He's going to have to change his name to Veryverycognito.

65
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 4:13pm

"Good teams have good players that make better plays more often."
Thanks for the insight, Deirdorf.

66
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 4:47pm

Bills score to trail by only 7 with 3 minutes left and one timeout. They try a "surprise" onsides kick, and when Aiken can't hold onto the ball, it's recovered by the Bills. But with an offsides on the Bills, they're forced to rekick, and this time they kick away.

67
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 4:51pm

Circus play in MIA-TENN to keep Fins game alive.

4th and goal TD to a WIDE-OPEN Tony Gonzalez at ATL-NYJ with little time left....

68
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by wlerj (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:03pm

ROBOPUNTER RETURNS! (to the MIA-TEN game).

69
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by wlerj (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:07pm

...and then Jeff Fisher sits on his three timeouts as the game heads to overtime. ROBOPUNTER DOES NOT FORGIVE.

71
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:10pm

That didn't make any damn sense at all.

I was just informed that Jerome Harrison has the 3rd most rushing yards in a game in NFL history. I don't even know what team he plays for.

163
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:04pm

Well who willingly watches Cleveland games, except for teams expecting a victory against Cleveland. Unfortunately, three teams this year have collapsed at the wrong time. Swine flu?

70
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:09pm

The Red Zone Channel was better earlier in the season when Hansen didn't talk as much. They split the screen a lot now, which they never did, and it's usually pointless. Just now they split screened it as he talked over a big run by Wells in Detroit while the top frame just showed sideline conversation and a kicker warming up in KC. Totally pointless, and even on a 58" plasma the half screen view was totally inadequate.

Earlier they'd just show one thing, and if another play was missed, they showed it immediately afterwards. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that.

72
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Pat F. :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:11pm

Less than two minutes left, POISE! Sanchez throws a moderate completion in the middle of the field, follows that with a useless three yard scramble, then caps the loss with an interception. He looked pretty forlorn coming off the field.

73
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:11pm

jerome harrison jeebus....

75
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Pat F. :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:25pm

Honestly, I had only barely heard of the guy before today, and I haven't seen the game... is he that good, or is KC's run defense that bad?

78
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:30pm

This is his fourth year in the league. He was a fifth round pick. Most people still haven't heard of him.

He's not that good.

80
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:36pm

He was one of the top 25 prospects in this year's FO Almanac, and one of the fantasy players that KUBIAK loved. He's undersized but has had a ridiculous ypc when he's gotten the carries. But still, a lot of it is KC.

74
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:12pm

After a pick that almost ends the game in OT (he went down at almost the 40), the Dolphins take an unnecessary roughness penalty to hand the Titans the ball at the 25, effectively ending their season.

Odds of TMQ calling this the "WORST PLAY OF THE SEASON... SO FAR?" High.

77
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by tylerdolphin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:28pm

It was a BS penalty. As were about 3 or 4 others that game

76
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:26pm

hey, green bay, you can run the ball if you want.

79
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Harris :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:36pm

Am I the only one who was screaming at the teevee when Reid called for a challenge on the second play of the game?

Hail Hydra!

83
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:39pm

It looked like a completion to me, so I was happy he went for it.

81
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:36pm

tyrone carter whiff tackle on a deep ball to jennings where James Harrison was massively held and couldn't get the sack.

good job omar!!!

86
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:46pm

Oh I see. It's the coach's fault when a player doesn't execute and the refs suck.

They're calling everything else on the Pack, at least. I'll never buy Woodson as this elite corner, because every time I watch him the only reason he succeeds is because he cheats.

106
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:04pm

it's the coach's fault when he doesn't bench obviously poor players. his tackling the last few games has been abysmal.

162
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:01pm

Unfortunately, the other options have been just as shitty tackling the past few weeks. I imagine that all the Steeler DBs (except Polamalu) should be polishing their resumes. Well football equivalent, highlight films. You'll be hard pressed to find 2009 footage for any of these guys highlight films. Well, other teams' players will (see Peterson, Adrian for one guy who has some lovely footage of Steeler defensive backs in his highlight film. Also see Cribbs, Josh, more for special teams)

82
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:38pm

4:15 game post

Be sure to join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for IRC football chat! Server: bendenweyr.dyndns.org, channel #fo

Brief tutorials for the IRC-shy:

- go to mirc.com and download the client

- type /server bendenweyr.dyndns.org in the status window

- type /join #fo in the status window

or

- go to mibbit.com

- click on the server link and paste bendenweyr.dyndns.org as the address

- enter #fo as the channel, pick a nick, hit go

84
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:42pm

Is it me, or is the head ref for the SF-PHI game looking a little hefty out there? Almost Andy Reid-hefty.

85
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:43pm

what's this? a pass interference call against the packers?

87
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 5:57pm

Eagles going for it on 4th and inches...Vick comes off the field limping.

And they don't pick it up.

88
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:05pm

Great job by Sheldon Brown stripping that ball and causing the fumble.

93
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Harris :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:22pm

All part of Reid's master plan.

Hail Hydra!

89
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:10pm

Kevin Curtis sighting!

90
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:13pm

seriously, why even have crosby attempt field goals from the right hash anymore?

91
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:13pm

Shocking that an unreliable kicker might miss a field goal in Heinz Field. Good decision kicking on 4th and short with that knowledge, McCarthy.

95
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:23pm

3rd turnover by SF already - INT by Samuel.

96
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:29pm

lot of drops in the GB-Pit game, by both teams.

97
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:33pm

seriously, what does it take to catch a ball in this game?

98
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:38pm

looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines...I mean, start Rodgers.

99
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:39pm

or not start him. apparently I do need amphetamines to type today.

100
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:41pm

and the thrill is put back in the XP try in the NFL...

101
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:47pm

More penalty fun for the Packers. Brandon Chillar managed to get an illegal contact and a PI flag on the same play.

104
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:52pm

Interesting variation on the Philly 2 minute offense: Weaver jaws with a Niner when the Eagles need to clock it, and there's no time to do anything but kick the FG. Would it have been a penalty on the Eagles if they just snapped it? Weaver was just going to be in the backfield.

102
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:51pm

Not smart, Leonard Weaver.

103
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 6:51pm

McCarthy is a Moron. Why would he not use any Time Outs when Pitt is at Gb's 10 yard line with 1:15 left to save time for his Offense? It makes absolutely 0 sense

107
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:12pm

not sure there's enough evidence to overturn the ruling of a catch there.

108
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:19pm

McNabb throws INT, and on the very next play, Trent Cole blows through untouched to sack Alex Smith. SF loss of 10.

109
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:20pm

Not nearly as many special teams bad play as I was expecting. I guess if both teams special teams' suck, they cancel each other out?

110
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:22pm

first barnett gets hurt, now jennings comes up gimpy. yuck.

111
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:34pm

Jamarcus time!

112
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:35pm

that's how you make a kick from the right hashmark, crosby.

113
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:39pm

Phil Simms is a cretin.

114
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:48pm

Wow, DeSean Jackson is fast.

115
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:48pm

"well inside field goal range for mason crosby." no, joe. there is no range that I would feel confident for crosby to make one. especially from the right hashmark.

116
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:52pm

No doubt TMQ will have something to say about Singletary's puffy parka, while Andy Reid came out in his usual light windbreaker. Although to be fair, Andy's got some extra layers to keep him warm.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:53pm

that finley kid. he's not bad.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:08pm

and russell is in at QB. interesting.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:08pm

for the raiders, I mean. I don't think mike mccarthy would have signed him during the week, but you never know.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:10pm

Now Jarmarcus is down. JP Losman is going to take some snaps for the Raiders now.

Honestly, I'm not sure why he was the 3rd QB instead of the 2nd. He's clearly the better option.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:14pm

is this gus johnson announcing the raider game? he's making this game sound terribly exciting.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:17pm

Of course he is. He's the best option for the games nobody cares about. He made Chiefs-Raiders sound like the Colts-Pats AFCCG.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:17pm

ugh. jarret bush is absolutely horrible.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:42pm

I have noticed that at least 5 times today.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:22pm

Why is Jamarcus Russell playing?

Why does Oakland have a chance to win??

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:44pm

Frye get cosncussion during game so Russell came in. Losman also come in for 1 play after russell get hurt. after clock hit 0, T Cable smile and walk onto field, Frye next to Cable and Frye look like he didn't know where he was.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:27pm

jamarcus just wins, baby.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:31pm

and there's the pittsburgh special teams we've been looking for.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:32pm

LMAO @ OMAR TARDLIN & THE ONSIDE KICK !!!

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:33pm

I really enjoy the Steelers misery.

Here's hoping it continues. Hold 'em, Pack!

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:34pm

so. pittsburgh needs 81 yards. just throw at jarret bush on every single play. they're almost guaranteed to score.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:35pm

Loads of time left for the Steelers to come back. It's not as if the Packers have exactly stopped their passing offense so far.

That sack helps, though.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:38pm

OK, my understanding of the formation rules is that 7 guys have to be on the line of scrimmage, with someone covering the tackle on either side, right? And that they allow the OL itself to cheat and form kind of a C shape and still be considered on the line...

But shouldn't the WRs still have to be on the LOS? In both the Chargers game and the Steelers game, the only person on the line of scrimmage is the center. The linemen slant back, and the receivers are at best 1 full yard behind the line. Why isn't that illegal formation?

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:59pm

An offensive formation must have exactly 7 people on the LOS. That would be the Center, two guards, two Tackles and two ends. The ends can be either tight ends or wide receivers

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:03pm

I know this.

On the plays in question, the ends were 1+ yards off the line. I suppose this just means that the OT being considered "on the line" means that that implied line is where the ends must line up as well, not the actual line... maybe it's just that the networks are always using the blue line for the LOS now every game, but I never noticed that teams could do this before.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Led :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:07pm

Having tackles back off the LOS like that is a penalty but it's rarely called. It's funny - if a WR is just a hair off the LOS, that's illegal formation, but when the LT is basically in the backfield the refs ignore it.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:28pm

Right. But that has been the case ever since LT. And the WR part is what confuses me. Again, it could just be that the blue line is making me more aware of their exact placement, but I could swear that they've still always been enforcing the WRs lining up on the actual line, not the implied OL line. For instance, a shot of the Jags lined up illegally the other night:

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~vesterk/Untitled.bmp

Obviously in that case, the TE and WR are on the line. At least in the Steelers game, the other Steelers were still behind the ends as they should've been. But it was more like 1 yard off and 2 yards off instead of on and 1 yard off.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Jeff M. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 10:35pm

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that technically the rule is that the other linemen need to have their helmet at or in front of the midpoint of the Center's body in his stance, so (let's see if I can make this make sense):

~| RT |
~| RG |
| C |
~| LG |
~| LT |

is legal. However, teams routinely get away with:

~~| RT |
~| RG |
| C |
~| LG |
~~| LT |

which is not. I assume the rule is the same for ends, so we should see:

~| TE |
~| RT |
~| RG |
| C |
~| LG |
~| LT |
~| TE |

However, if you allow the ends the same de facto leeway that I see tackles get away with (which is what you're complaining about), they'll be lined up behind the quarterback!

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:42pm

ever since Broncos beat Raiders in week3 been saying Raiders will win in denver. JaMarcus Russell showed true gersatness coming off of bench to led tema to come from behind win. Grea td throw to C Schilens who is goign to be excellent WR for years to come. M Mithcell and G Russell with gerat special teams tackel on Ko after td. Marshall get the tuff stuff from M Huff on final drive. So what if T Kelly's pants fall down in game. Raiders not cocnerned about pants. Only concenr is winning which was what team did today. broncos better record but not better teamn, Raiders had soem growing pains but going to be pain for other AFc West temS IN 2010.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:46pm

The onside kick was actually not a bad call. If you recover it great, if not then odds are your offense has some time to score

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:46pm

gonna have a heart attack by the end of this GB game. geesh.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:49pm

Touchdown Steelers. Wow. 36-all with the XP coming.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by wr (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:47pm

And this, boys and girls, is why you don't play a prevent defense.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:50pm

Dammit, that catch and win will cost us 4-5 draft picks and take heat off Omar Tardlin.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by ryandgleason (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:21pm

a true fan of the team would never wish for a loss over win just for draft picks. piss off

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 11:12am

Imagine how pissed off FOT was when the Steelers won the Superbowl last year. That cost them a ton of draft picks and bought Tomlin at least five years or so.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 1:08pm

Lametroll is lame.

It's one thing to "cost yourself draft picks" by continuing to win , controlling your own destiny, etc entering the playoffs, and then winning the championship-- the team goal to begin with.

It's quite another thing when you "cost yourself draft picks" by winning useless meaningless games since their season is over playoffs wise {barring a complete and utter miracle}. Their BEST chance of WINNING the championship again soon (like, next year) would involve improving their team as much as possible fixing the weaknesses seen in THIS FAILED SEASON. Winning useless, meaningless "pride" games doesn't help them do that... it just gives them less potential great impact players to choose from to add to their team next season.

---------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

179
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Sifter :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 5:36pm

Yes but is moving up 4 slots in the draft worth the mental trauma that playing soft will give all your existing players? Well trauma's a harsh word, but it builds bad habits and it lowers the confidence of the team. They'll be thinking 'we aren't winning these last 3 games so we can move up to 12 instead of 16?' Imagine the pressure on the rookie who comes in at #12. He'll be the guy that the Steelers tanked their season for and while the rookie himself mighn't know that, the rest of the locker room will.

I'm sure I've read something about bad teams who win late in the season when their playoffs odds are 0.0% improve more the following season than teams that lose out. I think getting wins after your season is lost builds a bit of character and shows you aren't quitters.

But I'm sure whichever strategy Omar chooses, you'll disagree with it.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 1:13pm

Well, good thing I'm not a true fan then, especially given the etymology and true meaning of the word.

But yeh, let's all sit here on a site dedicated to outside-the-box thinking, and be stuck with an outdated mindset of what defines whether someone supports a team or not.

------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

139
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:51pm

The Sierra Nevada Bigfoot is foing down good tonight!!!!!!

Now can sit back and wath Vikings Pnathers game and relxa and not really care who wins it. just want to see more good football stuff

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:51pm

screw you, pittsburgh.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:52pm

On the bright side, FireOmar Tomlin, you're pretty much a lock to miss the playoffs with Baltimore and Miami left on the schedule.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:00pm

They were a lock (ok, not "technically") before this game started.
They just moved down in draft choices by winning.

As bad as their defensive depth has been exposed this year, you'd think they'd value getting the best possible draft picks at this point...

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 8:56pm

Pitt scoring that TD on the last drive was so predictable to anyone who watches GB. I would have almost bet my life that GB was going to lose considering how they got torched all game long

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Led :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:04pm

Ticky tack hold by Bush (I think) against Santonio Holmes during the Steelers' winning drive. Probably a make-up call for the hold by Woodson on Ward that went uncalled on the preceding play. 503 pass yards against the #4 team in defensive DVOA... Can't wait to see Quick Reads.

By the way, I didn't watch the game -- what was Woodson doing all game while his team was getting torched for 503 yards?

155
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by IsraelP (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:38pm

Getting penalized and falling down.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 10:53pm

Grabbing wide receivers, getting penalized half the time (if that)

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:06pm

GB's D gets torched by teams who do not turn the ball over. Yeah they are extremely good at causing them but if the other team can avoid them GB is not good enough on D to consistently stop the other team

149
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by bobx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:14pm

I was actually okay with Tomlin's onside kick call. He was basically saying we can't stop you from our 40 or from your 20, so let's take a chance at keeping it. And if you watched the resulting GB drive, he was right. The PIT CB's couldn't even REMAIN ON THEIR FEET. That drive could have started in Green Bay and they still would have scored.

161
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 10:56pm

I agreed wholeheartedly with the call (I even made the comment a couple weeks ago to just onside kick it regularly) If only the Steelers could remember the rules!!! It was well executed and had they let it go 10 yards it would have been successful. Tomlin was absolutely right about what would happen. Had he kicked off regularly, GB would have scored with 20 seconds left (FG if not TD) and Steelers lose. It's been a rare instance this year, but Tomlin made the right call, despite what the airheads announcing the game would say.

150
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:17pm

I hope GB cuts crosby. Seriously, any free agent kicker could have made more short field goals than him this year.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:38pm

Did Steve Smith introduce himself as Joe Playmaker?

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 9:58pm

In 6th grade football, they teach you to just fall on the ball. Yet time and again, I see a loose ball and guys try to scoop it up to run for the score, only to lose control of the ball.

158
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 10:20pm

Andre Carter try to do that last week aganst Raiders but he coudlnt pick up the ball. Sort of embarrassing but at least his tea won

164
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:05pm

Who's going to make heads or tails of the AFC wild card scenarios?

175
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Still Alive (not verified) :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 1:50am

They are very simple. Baltimore and Denver are most likely in.

If one of them falls by the wayside then you have NYJ/MIA/PIT/JAC with outside shot, and HOU/TEN with extreme outside shot not worth mentioning.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:19pm

Why are the Panthers getting screwed by the refs at home? This is ridiculous. Check out the 5 yard extra yards that they spotted Peterson on their touchdown drive. Just amazing. Called the false start on the punt when he was clearly induced. But my favorite by far is the non-call on the pass interference when King is getting tackled 30 yards down the field. Compare and contrast that with the bogus pass interference call on the Panthers in the Patriot game last week.

What is pass interference? Apparently by rule it doesn't exist when the receiver is a Panther. Just once this season I would like to see a call go the Panthers way that regularly goes the Patriots way 8 times every game.

166
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:20pm

QB vikings pregame stretching routine. kill me now.

168
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:38pm

The XM Radio commercial is causing me to have a grammatical crisis.

"He (Elvis) changed music. We're changing the way you listen to it.
He (Jordan) changed sports. We're changing the way you follow them."

Right or wrong, it's at least awkward.

167
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:37pm

And it gets even worse. Touchdown called back because of a marginal hold. But wait. Where was the pass interference on Smith? It's ok. You can interfere with Panther receivers. It's in the rule book. Apparently. WTF is going on here?

169
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Arson55 :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 12:02am

Good run there from Stewart.

170
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Arson55 :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 12:22am

Not to take anything away from Steve Smith or Jonathon Stewart, but Julius Peppers had the biggest impact on that game. He abused every single tackle he lined up against tonight.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 12:28am

Boy, I'll second that! He was a bulldozer out there.
I'd like to know what he had for breakfast, I'd order it every day.

(Come to think of it, since today was a game day, he had a million dollars for breakfast. I guess I'd have a good day, too.)

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by morganja :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 12:43am

He hasn't gotten nearly enough credit for playing through that broken hand. I guess it feels better now. Meeks has really done a great job with this defense. Every week it has become better.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 1:13am

Minnesota is a mess right now. They are gonna lose the #2 seed, and end up losing to Green Bay in the first round of the playoffs. Just so Favre can repeat what he did in 2004 (well January 2005), from the other side.

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by Q (not verified) :: Mon, 12/21/2009 - 9:38pm

Did anyone else watch the pregame for MNF where they asked Gruden the reason for the Giants Defensive decline after Week 4 and where he said it was due to injuries?

Why don't they ever say Schedule which is likely the largest reason, especially for this year's Giants. Of course your Defense will look good at the start of the year when you face Tampa, Oakland, and KC

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Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Tue, 12/22/2009 - 12:30am

I'd just like to nominate that near pick-6 on the abortion of a swinging gate fake-fg as the worst play of all time.

------------------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

182
Re: Week 15 Open Discussion Thread
by DavidL :: Tue, 12/22/2009 - 1:46am

As long as we're not ranking plays by comedy value, I agree.

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