Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

25 Dec 2009

Week 16 Open Discussion Thread

Start your weekend with Christmas Night Discussion of the Chargers and Titans, and then move on to a full weekend of action!

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 25 Dec 2009

114 replies , Last at 15 May 2010, 12:25am by George

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Fri, 12/25/2009 - 6:03pm

Wish I could watch the game or comment on it tonight, but, well it's Christmas, and my family might object to that sort of thing. It should be a good game. Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it, even Vikings fans! This Packers fan doesn't know who to root for on monday, as I don't know how the playoff seeding will shake out yet. It would be fun to watch minny lose the #2 seed and have to watch Chili try to win three play off games to get to the Super Bowl. Of course, there's not a team in the NFC that doesn't have at least one weakness. This should be one of the more entertaining playoffs in a while.

2
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousp (not verified) :: Fri, 12/25/2009 - 9:40pm

Philip Rivers should put a skirt on after his team accepted that call.

6
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Mark M (not verified) :: Sat, 12/26/2009 - 1:06pm

Why's that? I don't recall any team ever turning down a penalty because they didn't think it was bad enough.

3
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Fri, 12/25/2009 - 10:31pm

Doesn't Finnegan know he can't use his facemask to impede a receiver's hand?

Officiating in all sports is beyond abysmal.

4
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Fri, 12/25/2009 - 10:44pm

well that's one less 7-7 team in the AFC playoff picture.

5
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sat, 12/26/2009 - 12:23am

finally a friday night smackdown worth watching.........

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

7
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Dice :: Sat, 12/26/2009 - 5:05pm

Empty backfield worked pretty well(pass to VJax for 9 yds on 2-10) the one time I saw the Bolts use it, in contrast to the usual disasters we're treated to.

8
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Sat, 12/26/2009 - 5:29pm

It is truly remarkable that A.J. Smith ever allowed Ted Cottrell to come into contact with that roster. To say nothing of the fact that Smith did so after he got into a dispute with his head coach over the head coach's choice for defensive coordinator!

9
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Big Johnson (not verified) :: Sat, 12/26/2009 - 7:20pm

Chargers might actually move into the top 10 this week in dvoa! (but probably not, due to hidden west coast hatred factors)

If dvoa is a stat attempting to predict the rest of the year, i guess it keeps whiffing on the chargers. They have been hovering around the 14th best team in the league for a handful of weeks now. There needs to be a 4th quarter adjustment in dvoa for blowout games turned close games and this team is the prime example of why.

10
"Triple Witching Hour" Dooms Vikings on MNF
by Anthony Brancato (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 7:02am

"Oldtimers" here may or may not remember me as the creator of "the infamous Anthony Brancato System," which deals with warm-weather and indoor teams and what happens to them when they play in cold weather.

Well what happens when domed-stadium teams play in cold weather AND outdoors AND on natural grass, all in the same game?

This is what is meant by a "Triple Witching Hour" - adapted, of course, from the Wall Street phenomenon of options and futures ending concomitantly at the close of trading on the third Fridays of March, June, September and December, which invariably leads to hectic last-minute trading of both the options and futures, plus the stocks they represent.

Well in Minnesota's case, it means unmitigated disaster: Since moving into the Metrodome in 1982, the Vikings are 8-29 in Triple Witching Hour games, and have lost 17 of their last 20.

By the way, this system also pointed out the Redskins as a super bet getting 9 1/2 points (the "consensus" opening line) at home against New Orleans three weeks ago - as the Saints entered that game having lost 10 of the 13 Triple Witching Hour games they had played in dating back to 1996 (and would have made it 11 of 14 if the Redskins had any kind of kicker - and even as is Washington covering the spread was essentially never in doubt).

Further, as pointed out in my original article, the cold-weather angle takes on even greater significance when the game is either in the late-afternoon time slot, or at night, as the Minnesota-Chicago game is - and, in case you're interested, a kickoff-time temperature of 22 degrees, with a wind chill of 9, is being forecast for the game.

I see the Bears winning this outright - call it 16-13.

32
Re: "Triple Witching Hour" Dooms Vikings on MNF
by Sifter :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:10pm

Interesting.

12
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:13pm

James Farrior did his first useful thing in about six weeks.

13
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:13pm

Interception after LaMarr hits Flacco. Should be points this.

15
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:14pm

not after that mendendrop

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

14
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:13pm

woodley + farrior = flacco pick.

---------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

16
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:16pm

Senile Dick Enberg just called a FG a TD.

Someone pust this jerk out to pasture.

-----
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

17
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:24pm

Tyrone Carter just got torched by kelly washington.

----------------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

18
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:32pm

Willie Parker completely whiffs on a blitz pickup nearly getting Ben killed.

what a joke.

------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

19
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:34pm

mendenhall isn't doing much better

22
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:49pm

comparing a blitz pickup vs a LB vs. trying to stone Ngata is a little silly, but yeh he failed pretty bad.

that said, Parker would not have scored on that goalline run.

-----------------------

Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

24
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 3:02pm

then again, on that Mendenhall fumble , Parker would have already fallen down before he could have fumbled it.

-----------------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

25
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 3:04pm

harrison rips it out of Ray Rice to get it back

Senile Enberg thinks Farrior is Harrison.......

---------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

20
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:44pm

Dolphins forgot to show up today it appears......

------------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

21
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:47pm

Ricky Williams = EPIC FAIL.

lmao

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

116
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by George (not verified) :: Sat, 05/15/2010 - 12:25am

Ask Brandon Marshall about a tightend named Sinclair Brown. 6-foot-6, 265lbs of strength and speed. "No Fat" Maybe you should ask the ten other NFL players, from the University of Central Florida.

23
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 2:57pm

toastedsend trying to cover todd heap = epic fail.

-----
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

26
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 3:06pm

Fouts needs a 3rd replay before he realizes that Mike Wallace made a SICK body control adjustment and fingertip grab to pull that in, and that Big Ben made a terrible throw....

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

27
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 3:37pm

Is this for real? Is Cleveland now genuinely playing their punter at quarterback? And *succeeding*??

(...not that it's an unreasonable idea given their QB situation, but still...)

28
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 3:39pm

...or not; looks like ESPN was just listing Hodges instead of Anderson for the passing stats on that two-minute drill?

29
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by capt. Anonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 3:47pm

Steve Smith just took a mean hit at the NYG 5 yd line, shook it off, then went in for the score. His arm/wrist is hanging at an almost grotesque angle....and he doesn't care. He just explained the rules and regulations to Michael Johnson.

30
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:03pm

Ravens defender Foxworth just tackled the Steelers receiver Holmes with the ball in the air and still about ten yards shy of the receiver. He then proceeds to step over the tackled receiver, catch the ball, and run downfield. Pass interference flag inexplicable absent.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:09pm

Wow, they follow it up with a phantom offsides penalty against the Steelers (maybe to make up for an obvious one missed in the first quarter against the Ravens) and then another missed pass interference this time against the Steelers. Add the missed offensive pass interference for a pretty blatant push-off on the Ravens second touchdown and it seems they've decided with the ball in the air, anything goes.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:17pm

And it's not just in the air. Let's continue catalogueing...

- Play whistled dead resulting in a sack for the Ravens while the Steelers QB Roethlisberger was warpped up but on his feet and in the middle of a throwing motion.

- Haloti Ngata called for an extremely late hit out of bounds. Good call, but that was so late and so flagrant it should have been an ejection.

- Phantom illegal hands to the face (just because someone's helmet comes off doesn't mean you have to throw a flag) negates a sack and gives a free first down.

34
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:15pm

hey now, Fouts said it was clean...

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

37
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:22pm

More evidence that it wasn't...

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:14pm

both of ATL kicker and punter down.
:o

------------------
Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

36
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Birdsfan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:18pm

Some strange special teams action in the Atlanta-Buffalo game. As the half expired, Falcons attempted a long field goal that got blocked and circus-returned for a touchdown. The touchdown was overruled because the ball had been fumbled forward during the return. The fumbled was actually forced by the kicker, and the last person to touch the ball was tackled by the punter, and both got injured on the play. With no kicker, the Falcons went for it on fourth down at the Bills 30. After they scored on that drive, with the punter/kickoff specialist out, they had backup lineman Kroy Bierman kick off. He actually got it all the way to the two.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FakeJonStewart (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:25pm

Ironic comment of the day so far:

An announcer in the Baltimore-Pittsburgh game just commented that Ray Lewis gave a teammate a Bible as a Christmas gift. Presumably said Bible was missing the part about not stabbing a guy to death in a bar fight. That Ray Lewis is allowed to play the game is an embarassment to the NFL.

39
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:34pm

You're an embarrassment to humankind, ignorant buffoon.

Anyways, how many Ravens does it take to choke away a playoff birth? Cousins, Washington, Mason, Suggs nobody wants a playoff birth. Playing like idiots

41
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Birdsfan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:45pm

I wouldn't want a playoff birth, either, although choking one away sounds even worse.

42
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FakeJonStewart (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:45pm

Hey now, personal attacks aren't necessary. You can be a Baltimore fan - I am not really a fan, but I like them for their tough style, and defensive focus - without defending a murderer like Ray Lewis. The NFL should do more to remove players from the league for being scum off the field and not just for bad performance on the field.

40
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by JimH (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:42pm

Miami gets absolutely jobbed on a fumble recovery. Texan catches the ball, makes the obligitory "football move", then a Dolphin puts his helmet on the ball and the ball comes out and is recovered by Miami.

The refs called it an incomplete pass. Review shows it was complete, but because the refs had blown it dead as incomplete it stands as incomplete

44
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 5:08pm

Happened in BAL_PIT game too

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

52
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 7:18pm

There's no such thing as a football move. Well, there is, but it's irrelevant for whether or not a pass is complete.

43
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Birdsfan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 4:55pm

Tampa takes New Orleans to OT!

Meanwhile in ATL Kroy Bierman kicks off, hauls ass down the field, and tackles the returner. Has there ever been a team that deliberately used some linebacker type guy who could kick off and then take off with a running start? It's fun to do in Madden, at least.

51
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 7:15pm

That's why the Steelers should let Sepulveda do the kick offs.

45
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Birdsfan (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 5:09pm

TAMPA WINS!

Brees was 32 of 37 but only 7 ypa. Looks like the "drop 8 into cover" defense really does work.

47
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by bucjoe (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 5:11pm

break up the bucs!

48
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FooBarFooFoo (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 5:13pm

Ha, I said the Saints would collapse down the stretch. Won't win another game this season.

SB Pats vs. Eagles

49
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by BucNasty :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 5:24pm

A wish we could've been the only blemish on their record, but I'll take it. Sean Payton reminds of one those Bud Light commercials: he's either too heavy, calling wacky reverses and whatnot when his team's got a lead on us with under 2 minutes to go; or he's too light, punting rather than going for it on two separate fourth-and-shorts that everyone watching probably thought he should have went for.

50
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by capt. Anonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 6:29pm

obvious offsides by eagles tackle on the TD to Celek.

I hate the refs today

53
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 7:20pm

Manning is out for the Colts, they're up by 5 with 4 mins left in the 3rd. 3 and out, and the Colts punt, now the Jets have the ball in decent field position.

57
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by JetfanMike (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:25pm

Well, it's good to know the Jets can beat the Colt's 2nd stringers. Looks like we might have another 1st round loss in the playoffs. Whoohoo!

54
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 7:28pm

Sack Fumble by Colts QB2, Jets recover for a touchdown. Will we see Manning?

55
Phil - Den
by jmaron :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 7:30pm

It is so frustrating watching referees essentially hand a team 7 pts. On Philly's td to go up 27-10 the refs call a ridiculous 41 yards pi. Then they call a ticky tack hands to the face penalty to give them another first down. Right after that play a pass play for a td the refs don't call a blatant hands to the face on Philly's left tackle.

I don't have a routing interest. But it is so frustrating watching refs make such blatant mistakes that effect the game so greatly.

56
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:07pm

Well, the Colts essentially end the Steelers season by rolling over for the Jets.

Darth Hoodie will finish it next week by rolling over for the Texans.

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

61
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:53pm

The Patriots need to win next week and have Cincy lose to get the #3 seed. I doubt they'll just roll over next week.

64
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Seattleite (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 9:08pm

How would Cincinatti losing help Pittsburgh? Seems to me that the teams alive for the wild card spot are Baltimore, Denver, Houston, Pittsburgh, New York, Miami. Cincinatti isn't in the wild card picture because Cincinatti definitely wins their division. If you're looking for how Pittsburgh can get in, then they just plain can't catch up to Baltimore, but if they win and both Houston and New York lose (and since New York is playing Cincinatti, that would actually be a Cincinatti win), then they would be in since they beat Denver this year. At least I think that's it; the AFC wild card race is so tagled it's hard to calculate these things.

84
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Ben Stuplisberger :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 9:09am

For Pittsburgh to get in, both the Jets and Texans must lose. Neither NE or Cinci has anything to play for. Win or lose, the result is the same, Pats 3, Cinci 4.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/playoffscenario?algorithm=WinningPct

114
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by FireOmarTomlin :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 10:15am

FTLYP: the Bungholes can get the 3 seed with a win and a Pats loss

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Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.

58
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Bip (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:26pm

So, how is it different when the Colts put in their reserves to basically give up the game, then if a team were tanking games to get the number one pick? If I had went to this game, I’d be bitching about a refund. Polian can talk all the pompus crap he wants about how its about winning the super bowl and that’s it, but the team exist to win games and win for its fans, without us, there are no Colts. Way to spit in the face of your fans again this year Colt’s brass. This better bring a Super Bowl since they are SO focused on it.

59
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by bobx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:33pm

One of the dumbest decisions I've seen of late. The Colts looked SUICIDAL after Caldwell pulled Manning. They went from being a 14-0 team to looking like they were the Raiders. I'm sure the inevitable playoff loss will be blamed on poor morale/timing from this (whether or not it's true). I just don't think the tiny risk involved in one player who's never missed a snap due to injury in ten years playing one more quarter is worth this.

60
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:52pm

I may or may not agree with your overall point, but the Colts at that point rested a heck of a lot more players than Manning alone, and many of them have injury problems/histories. I am a long-time Colt fan, and I follow them too carefully, and even I was trying to figure out who some of those linebackers and DB's were in the second half of the 3rd quarter.
Did I like the call? Nope, not one bit. But, was it just to protect Manning? No way. To protect Mathis (DNP), Powers (DNP), Sessions (DNP), Freeney (sat most of the game), and Wayne, and Brackett, and Bullit, Bethea ...

63
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by bobx (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:57pm

The difference is that even resting all those defensive guys, I think the Colts still win if they just keep Manning in. Pulling Manning with a 5 point lead for someone who's never taken a NFL snap was basically saying "We would prefer to forfeit this game right now if that was allowed".

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Dennis :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 9:19pm

What makes no sense to me is that the Colts had those 2-3 years where they did this the last couple of games and lost in the playoffs. Then they had to play to the end of the season in 2006 and won the Super Bowl. So based on their own history, it's better preparation for the playoffs to keep playing instead of resting everyone.

I get not playing guys who are hurt, but there's no reason to pull Manning and some of the others. I'm a Jets fan so I'll take the win, but that was just shameful.

67
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 9:37pm

That's specious reasoning.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Dennis :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 9:50pm

What's sepcious about it? You do X, you lose. You do X again, you lose again. You do Y, you win. Once again you have a choice to do X or Y, why do you do X again? I know it's small sample size theater, but if I had the choice, I'd go with the available evidence of what worked instead of what didn't work.

Not to mention I think playing for an undefeated season is a worthwhile goal. As Greg Gumbel said, if nothing else, it would be nice for someone to do it to shut up Mercury Morris. Forget about anything else Gumbel has done in his career, he should be in the announcer hall of fame for that comment.

69
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Agamemnon :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 9:59pm

Please provide evidence to support your assertion. This reeks of "back in my day" reasoning.

And before you reply, check out 18to88.com's take on this.

70
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:01pm

Whenver the Colts had a first round bye, they also did not win the Superbowl. Should they have not won so many games, then?

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Agamemnon :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:13pm

(this reply is in support of B)

You try to do what's best for your team, period. As we all know, winning the Super Bowl isn't very likely, even for the best teams. What are the Colts' SB odds at? 20%? And they're the team with the best chance.

So you can't go "post hoc propter hoc", especially since the only way your theory is disproven is if an unlikely event occurs, and think your argument isn't specious.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Dennis :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 11:58pm

I agree, you try to do what's best for your team. We can argue all day about whether that's to rest the players or not to rest them.

The other part of the argument is whether or not you think an undefeated season is worth playing for. I think it is. Obviously the Colts don't. If they weren't undefeated, the resting wouldn't bother me as much.

I'm a Jets fan, so I only benefited from it. But I still thought it sucked.

79
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Dennis :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 11:56pm

There were quite a few times when they didn't have a bye and lost in the playoffs. So the "not having a first round bye guarantees a super bowl win" theory doesn't hold (within the limits of the very small sample size).

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 9:07am

There were quite a few times when the Colts didn't rest players in week 16/17 and they didn't win the Superbowl, too.
On the other hand, I feel that going for a perfect season is worth something, although the Colts do have a number of injuries, so I can see why they made this decision.

73
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott P. (not verified) :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:27pm

Technically, the Patriots had an undefeated season. They only lost in the postseason.

75
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by DGL :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:34pm

Personally, I think putting in your second string QB in a meaningless regular-season game is totally defensible. If Peyton gets hurt in the playoffs, he's at least got some game experience against a first-string defense.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Dennis :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 11:43pm

Then wouldn't it make sense to let him play with the first stringers - the guys he'd actually be playing with if he has to come into a playoff game?

72
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:17pm

I was at that game and it was pretty awful. It was exciting and competitive and then, all of a sudden, the Colts just gave up. The crowd went from "cheering happy fans" to "angry mob" in about five seconds. And then when Curtis Painter--God bless him--got clobbered by the blitz and gave up a touchdown fumble...well, lets just say that Bill Polian should be glad it wasn't "Free Torch Night" at Lucas Oil.

Why didn't they just start the second-stringers at the beginning? I guess it was to keep the first-stringers loose. They should have printed that strategy in the game program and thus saved a lot of tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth in the stands.

I'm still going to buy a #7 jersey, though. I hope it comes pre-bloodstained.

62
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 8:54pm

I'm not an expert on clockmanagement (too little Madden, I think), so anyone, ANYONE, explain to me what McDaniels is doing sitting on TOs in the end of either half?

65
Phil-Den
by CathyW :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 9:13pm

Okay, the Eagles managed to pull out a win in the last seconds, but I just have to say that MACHO HARRIS SHOULD NEVER PLAY ANOTHER NFL GAME EVER AGAIN. That is all.

74
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by NRG :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:34pm

If you'd like to chat with FO staff in their secret IRC hideout, you can't. They regularly delete any attempt to link to it. If you don't like this policy, e-mail bill barnwell. This post will be deleted shortly.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 10:55pm

What sort of miserable clock management was Dallas running there at the end of the half? It's great that they're up 14-0, but it should be 17-0.

81
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 8:13am

They needed some yards to make the FG easier, but Romo was so smart to throw it to the middle.
Then... with 10 sec on the clock he throws it over the middle again with no time outs.
That was pretty bad.

77
Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 12/27/2009 - 11:21pm

Didn't see any games today (kind of difficult in Afghanistan). However, I can't help but wonder if New Orleans is following the pattern of the 1996 Broncos; looking perfect for 3/4 of the year, then losing their intensity at the end of the season and going one and done in the playoffs.

82
Its all about me
by Mercury Morris (not verified) :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 8:39am

This just further reinforces how great us '72 Dolphins were. Did I mention I was the first running back in NFL history to get a thousand yards and not lead my team in rushing? No? Or that I was one of the Black Six? I'm still mad at Gene Washington for upstaging me. I recently starred a commercial for Reebok not to long ago called "Perfectville", showing I still got it. I want to note the so-called "alternate version" that showed the Patriots winning was done without my consent.

My agent tells me he has a role for me in a new upcoming flick called "Monday Night Jihad".

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 9:39pm

Jaws and Chucky showing how normal it is for coach & qb to have a heated argument by staging one in the pregame segment.

commercial:

wow. my interest in buying a snickers bar ever again is gone. wonder where it went.

back to the game.

fantasy league finals, my rival is down by 24, and still has Favre and Shiancoe.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:09pm

sigh. The Vikings start moving well, then self destruct, inside FG range a penalty, sack, lost fumble.

McKinnie is hopeless again. Anthony Herrera is worse, just allowed Tommie Harris to run straight past him. no move, no fake, spin, just straight up untouched with Herrera lined up directly opposite him.

The Vikings are starting to curl up and die again....

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:12pm

sheez vikings even tackling like crap. Jay Cutler flushed out of pocket takes off downfield, Madieu Williams runs up and hits him head on, can't wrap up and Cutler gets 8 yards.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:19pm

3rd and 3. Bears run. Forte meets 3 vikings behind line of scrimmage. None of them can wrap him up, hne escapes, retreats backwards, reverses field goes back the other side and gets the first down.

I can't say enough on how poorly the Vikings are coming out of the gate here. Anyone but the Bears would be up 14-0.

They follow this up with a play where Brinkley does wrap up a receiver, but he shoves him about 15 yards backwards then throws him to the ground, about 5 seconds after the whistles started blowing. Amazingly the refs don't call what would have been a well deserved personal foul. I can't even complain about the refs, they should have had a first down there.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by JimH (not verified) :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:25pm

Andrew, keep the posts coming. I am working late and living vicariously through updates. Its amazing how many teams with a lot to gain just did not show up this week (Saints, Giants, Dolphins (first half)), just to name a few

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:28pm

Vikings get to midfield (sorry if I'm posting a lot, its therapeutic). On 2nd down Taylor looks to have a huge crease but cuts inside and ends up 3 yards short of first down. On 3rd down they call a pitch play that goes nowhere. 4th and 2, Kluwe comes in to punt... and knocks it 16 yards out of bounds. yeeech. I'm not sure any of these guys can play in the cold.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:31pm

And Olson get 24 yards, last 10 after a missed tackle.

Right after that Ben Leber drops a pick. That is his second dropped pick.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:38pm

After a bears false start backs them up to 3rd and 9, the vikigns blitz and get no one remotely close to Cutler, who has all day to calmly hit a receiver down to the 2. actually way overthrown but hauled in anyway.

The bears promptly false start again (they are at home mind you) but the way things are going that will....

yep. Touchdown bears. Winfield was beaten for the TD. He's not the same, maybe even a liability, he's even missing run support tackles.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:44pm

Vikings follow that with another 3 and out. On 3rd down Favre reads blitz, has perfect read, Berrian is open on the slant and Favre throws well behind him.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:47pm

amusing stat - there are 11 players from Vanderbildt in the NFL. 5 are Bears.

Vikings force 3 and out. On first down they went for it all and almost had it.
Short punt lands well short of vikings returner then takes long roll for 45 yards. Vikings on edge.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:50pm

Peterson gains 7 on first down, then on second down he seems to audible to a peterson to the short side of the line, where there are 3 bears lined up and two blockers. Predictably it gets nothing. 3rd and 3, 2 minute warning. Vikings are 1 of 5 on 3rd down.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:54pm

and on 3rd down, they call a rollout and there is someone (Anderson) through the line, in Favre's face immediately... I think Tahi was the blocker, he tried to cut block but fell down in front of him, and Anderson just stepped over and was in Favre's face, who threw it away.

Vikings punt. Bears open with a 7 yard run then a slant that was missed with some contact. There's been a lot of contact not called by DBs on both sides.

3rd down for bears... Cutler has tons of time and easily hits Bennet between two defenders. Bears on move again. First down pass has tons of time again, gets another first down.

Vikings are not getting any pressure from any of their vaunted D-line.

As I write this they went deep again, Johhny Knox was wide open but Cutler threw it just too far. That play is there. THey will try again.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymous10101 (not verified) :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:54pm

How do the nfl draft picks work if teams are tied? Sources anyone, I want truth not opinion please

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:57pm

Generally same as playoff tiebreakers in reverse, though I think it goes to coin tosses earlier.

Strength of Schedule, then division record if in same division, then conference record, then coin toss.

With the caveat that superbowl winner and loser are always last two.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 10:58pm

And Bears settle for a field goal at the half, 16-0.

Halftime Bears have 156 yards passing. Vikings have 36. They also ran for more yards.

Keep in mind that a couple weeks ago, the Bears had negative yards in the entire second half.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymous10101 (not verified) :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 11:04pm

So no head to head? Like with Washington and Oakland since the Redskins beat the Raiders the Raiders wouldn't get the better pick because they lost to them? It would be a different tie breaker?

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Mon, 12/28/2009 - 11:09pm

Not sure I can continue updates...

I'm trying to decide what I'm doign to jinx them, watching the game, wearing my Peterson jersey or my purple & white christmas tree. I've decided on the latter, since I put it up before the Arizona game. Hence I'll be busy taking it down now.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by batbatt :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 12:25am

good lord. the look on QB Vikings as that runback unfolded on the ensuing kickoff after the vikings TD was priceless.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 12:33am

Bears really need better coaching for their D. You're not supposed to let the check-down receiver get an easy 10 yards.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 1:08am

So Favre starts playing exploiting checkdowns and whatever he can find,gets the game tied up, falls behind, delivers another patented last second game tying drive, and it goes to overtime (only because the Vikings missed an extra point earlier mind you).

In OT, the bears get the ball first and competently exploit the vikigns defense to get in FG range, where Gould misses a makeable FG, just pulls it.

Vikings get the ball and two sacks later, punt.

Bears can't get a first down, and punt.

On the first play, Favre reads the blitz and hits Peterson as his checkdown. Peterson motors about 15 yards where he is brought down by an uncalled facemask and fumbles. Bears recover. First play, Cutler reads a blitz and hits Aromashodu for an easy TD, who beat Winfield by at least 5 yards. Ballgame.

Congrats eagles.

Honestly I think the Vikings shouldn't try for the #3, they should rest everyone for the #4 seed. That would set them up if they somehow win to stay indoors if they go to the saints.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 1:11am

Presuming that #3 beats #6. Is Arizona really good enough for that to be a safe assumption?

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 1:18am

That would be Dallas... yeah, they should just try and get a feel good win.

At least their offense clicked.

Honestly I think that Favre used this game as a showcase.

half #1 - Childress offense

half #2 - Favre offense

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 2:48am

Well, for some reason, the Vikings offensive line was, once again, completely uncoordinated in the first half. I've never seen so many offensive linemen, running around free and clear, looking for someone to block, while the guy with the ball is getting tackled or pressured. I can't figure out what the hell is going on, other than to grasp at straws and speculate that a rookie at left tackle, and more likely, a guy in his first season of starts at center, has often resulted in mass confusion. I really don't get it.

They played really bad defense tonight, especially, once again, late in the game. The special teams, which, unbelievably, has been mostly a strength this year, were so bad it can hardly be described. Lemme see......awful kick coverage, a mishandled extra point snap resulting in a block, a 20 yard punt.....yeah, that qualifies as indescribably awful.

If I were to criticize playcalling, it would more likely be directed at Frazier, but I can understand why be blitzed as often as he did late, what with the mediocre game the defensive linemen were having.

That Favre, he sure can't win games in December cold weather, huh?

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 8:31am

Trent Dilfer on postgame: Its hard to establish the run when you have two tackles who can't run block.

The line play by the Vikings on both sides at this point is nothing like last year... or even early this year. Last year they were a mean nasty team with a chip on their shoulders. This year they get dominated by everyone. Jared Allen was always a step short, Kevin Williams vanished. I know Pat Williams was hurt...

It seems every week they turn mediocre quarterbacks into world beaters. Look at what Chicago did last time vs. the Vikings. Look what they did last week vs. Baltimore. How do you think they'd fare against Baltimore now? How do you think they'd make Aaron Rodgers look now?

Dilfer further suggested the Vikings should only run in three situations: goal line, short yardage and at the end of the game with a lead.

I do take some positives from this game. Unlike the Arizona and Carolina games they didnt roll over and die. Their main hope at this point is to get Favre into a shootout with someone. Of the NFC Playoff teams I'd give that strategy a shot vs. Dallas and maybe New Orleans. I think they'd get steamrolled by Green Bay or Philadelphia. San Diego or Indianapolis? That might threaten the Niner's 55 points.

Favre is the only thing the team has going for it really at this point (along with the receivers). If not for him this wouldn't be a 10-6 team like FO suggested a few weeks ago. They'd be a 6-10 team the way they are playing now. Granted a good portion of that is due to injuries, Winfield is barely a shadow of his former self, Hutch likewise, and EJ Henderson's loss cannot be understated... though he was out all last year and they didn't have these problems then. I think Pat Williams is on the downside now a tad. I can't explain Kevin Williams, he used to be as good a DT as you could find in the league but he is just getting occupied by average players and becoming a non-factor, while Jared Allen is turning in zero stat sheets vs. rookies and backups frequently now.

Vs the Giants - the Vikings should have the scoreboard operator put the score as them down by 14 at the start of the game.

Overall I'm kind of stoic about this loss (as a vikings fan) now. Clearly they weren't the team we thought they were, and not a threat to finally win one for Minnesota. They had a real window for a couple of years if they could have found a quarterback, and that window seems to have shut with the injuries this year. Even if Favre comes back next year and plays as well as he did this year (unlikely) I don't think they have a realistic shot.

They're going to have to break up this defense and build anew before that would be a chance at this point.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Flounder :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 9:58am

"I do take some positives from this game. Unlike the Arizona and Carolina games they didnt roll over and die. Their main hope at this point is to get Favre into a shootout with someone."

When your only hope is Favre in a shootout in the playoffs, you know that all hope is lost. Favre shootout in the playoffs = 4 INTs.

Sincerely,
A Packer Fan

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 11:24am

YEah but what else are ya gonna do at this point?

That first half... and that Carolina game... were like the Vikings offense of 2006 and 2007. It was vintage Childress. Except without being able to run block.

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Bears Win ...
by Anthony Brancato (not verified) :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 1:11am

... and the Triple Witching Hour claims yet another victim.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by TomC :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 3:17am

All right Mr. Anthony Triple-Witching-Hour, you did call it.

It took a blocked extra point and a horrible non-called facemask, but the Bears did win outright.

Vikes need to figure out their pass protection; otherwise, I wouldn't be overly concerned. The Bears happened to have several guys show up big who were invisible all season.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by Anthony Brancato (not verified) :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 4:17am

Two lost fumbles; plus I observed quite a few blatant drops by the Vikings receivers.

This is exactly what you'd expect from a dome team playing in circumstances like that.

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Re: Week 16 Open Discussion Thread
by utvikefan (not verified) :: Tue, 12/29/2009 - 5:06am

Wow, was Herrera bad this game. At least the second time I saw him just let his guy run right past him, he helped someone else on their guy, instead of just standing there, but...he let his guy run right by him.

True, Winfield is not right, but the rest of the D didn't show up either (for another game). Vikes are gonna be outta luck fast, if they don't find their D and special teams again.

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