Talk amongst yourselves
8/21: BUF RB, NE RB/TE, NO IDP, PHI RB
8/19: BUF IDP, PHI WR, PIT RB, TEN WR
* * * * *
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28 Dec 2013
For 20 teams, this is it.
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 28 Dec 2013
168 replies , Last at
30 Dec 2013, 8:57pm by
Peyton Manning sets the all-time passing yards record against the Raiders - yes or no?
To be clear the NFL single-season career passing yards record. It is Peyton Manning so most records of merit are in play. I'm pretty sure Norm Van Brocklin's record is safe today, as is Doug Flutie's single-season pro record of 6,619 yds (1991). I think the answer is yes barring injury.
The more interesting question is if New England loses, should he break the record? I know he will want to, but if the game becomes meaningless what is best for the team?
It's not just "New England loses", since the games kickoff together the Pats have to be beaten so badly they have clearly lost their game with a significant chunk of Broncos/Raiders still to play. The odds against that are quite long.
Oops, momentarily forgot NE - Buf was a 4 o'clock game.
Yeah, if the Broncos see the Pats down 28-0 at halftime, they'll KNOW the Pats will lose....
Exciting day for Steelers fans.
If Miami, San Diego and Baltimore lose, and the beloved Steelers win of course, then the Steelers will make the playoffs at 8-8.
It would be awesome.
Well, it is looking on so far...
it still is with all games close to the 2 minute warning
Ravens losing - not a surprise.
Dolphins losing - small surprise.
But I'll be enormously surprised if the Chiefs win in San Diego in spite of sitting most of their best players.
I find myself rooting for the scenario when the Steelers are still alive after Baltimore and Miami have both been eliminated.
Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for the final regular season internet relay football chat!
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Every year some genius makes this very handy excel spreadsheet with the playoff scenarios for week 17. Anyone have that for this year?
not in excel, but this is what you're looking for:
So if the ball becomes slippery so easily, why don't they make the balls less slippery??
Doesn't that improve the whole product?
Polamalu has CBR, but plays the handoff - and gets fooled completely.
I'm getting tired of his gambling habits, because it's easy to pick on.
I was wondering too... My best guess is corner back responsibility.
Cutback, boot, reverse.
If you're on the edge of the play (could be an unblocked end, an outside linebacker or a safety near the LOS or even a corner if there's no receiver on that side) and the play is going away from you, you're normally not going to make the play.
In that case you need to respect the runner to cut back (Cutback), read if the QB made a playfake and is on a rollout (Boot) or that the play was a fake and that a reverse is coming (Reverse).
Ah, thank you. Always good to learn some new terminology.
Watch the guy on the edge where the play is going away from, if he played it well he'll make sure that everything going against the flow is forced inside and is tackled.
This is also the guy that trapping linemen/TEs/FBs look for if the design of the play is against the flow.
Lions dl literally slaps cassel in the face swinging for ball. No way that goes uncalled against one of the glory boys.
The Lions do that sort of stuff all game long. The officials grow flag weary same as when DBs grab all the time.
Bengals doing absolutely everything they can to give the Ravens a chance. 10 yard punt!
Still no idea how ponder beat out cassel. Cassel consistently looks much better.
Cannot believe the poor effort by the dolphins.
Things looking promising for the Chargers hopes.
As someone rooting for favorable playoff scenarios for the Broncos, this is not good...
Anything that troubles the Broncos is something to root for! :)
(flash forward 3 weeks)
The Chargers are going to the Super Bowl? The Chargers?
Go Chiefs? Go Chiefs!!
The Houston Texans go full circle in 12 seasons and clinch the first draft pick.
What a truly amazing implosion. When the Colts went from perennial playoff team to 2-14 in 2011, it was generally conceded tat Manning's greatness masked a lot of flaws and they weren't a terribly good, or deep, team all along. But Houston at 2-14 may well still have more talent across the board than the 11-5 Colts. If nothing else, it's close. Does it all come down to QB? Luck's been good, but not great this year. I don't think Colts fans are terribly high on their coaching staff, so you'd have a hard time convincing me it's coaching. The Trent Richardson factor? The 8th OL lineup starting today?
Much like KC last year (who were picked by many to make the playoffs before 2012 started), I expect the Texans to rebound quickly. (The Colts were a complete rebuild and nobody really expected so much so fast.)
Some of it's injuries (with Cushing and Manning out, there's no-one in the middle of the field who can even remotely cover). Some of it is indeed terrible QB play. Some of it's the complete lack of anything resembling an NFL right tackle. But mostly, it's just mental disintegration, I think. The team's fallen apart (just look at the penalty counts), and it's very difficult to put a finger on why. Much like the England cricket team, by the way, and dear Lord, I hope Andy Flower goes the way of Kubiak - and even more so Gooch Marciano.
The Cardinals being out at 11-5 (and in a much tougher division to boot) and the Steelers in at 8-8 is still in play...
Edit: I'm an idiot.
No matter what happens from now until September, the Giants will be everybody's darkhorse favorite in 2014 because they went 7-3 in the last 10 games.
4th and 3 from the Packers 35 and Trestman punts...that's the worst possible decision there, right? Then the Bears down the ball at the 1 but it's ruled a touchback. Trestman challenges and loses (even Buck and Aikman had to admit that the refs made the wrong call. What a very 2013 Bears start to the game...ugh.
And then Conte, of all people, bails them out with a pick.
Early on the word Trestman seemed to be that he was a analytics outside box thinker. Between dicisions like this an his weird handling of timeouts (and even weirder explanations), the early buzz seems silly.
What was Rodgers thinking on that pick?
I may break the record for single person schadenfreude if the Chargers lose at home to the Chiefs backups. Holy heck the GIFs of the inevitable Rivers tantrums alone!
As a Falcons fan, let me take a moment to criticize the brain trust for fielding one of the softest, least physical teams I've ever seen. Just pathetic how this team was pushed around all season. We went from 13-3 to 4-12 without losing our starting QB for any meaningful time. Good thing Matt Ryan is made out of taffy, because he got the crap beat out of him this year.
Meanwhile, we're still in search of a pass rush. One of these decades.
If the Bills and Skins hadn't thrown those two games to us, we'd be in prime position for Clowney. Not sure if he'll be worth a fig as a pro, but I'd at least feel better about life for a few months...
I think their offense really highlights the extent to which a horrible offensive line limits play calling. I absolutely hated watching these guys because everything was 5 yards or less and hope for a catastrophic ****up by the defense. And I can't blame the OC, because any time they actually did try and call a long pass play, Ryan would get killed.
That UR call on McClellan was brutal.
Honestly, I don't know how the officiating in the NFL could get much worse...not just this game, for which I'm obviously biased, but in general. It seems like it's a total crapshoot if a good defensive play will draw a flag or not.
Well, at this rate Manning gets the single season yardage record sometime in the 3rd quarter and then it might be Osweiler time.
Smacking the Raiders around is always fun, and this blatant record hunting makes it even more enjoyable.
Why is Podlesh still employed? I would think punter would be one position where you could find a guy off the street who could be better, and Podlesh is pretty much the worst punter in the league. Does he have compromising photos of Emery and Trestman or something?
How does that make sense? Wouldn't that new worst guy be ready for replacement?
Many guys get a chance in camp to prove their qualities. Why do you think the best guy on the street is better than the worst in the league?
That's a good touchdown there for the Packers. Go watch the replay.
i get it was a fumble. but you can't bat the ball forward. where was the flag on that? like what happened last week vs pittsburg?
he batted it backwards?
the ball didn't fly forward on its own. Rogers with his passing hand pushed it forward. IMO its either a incomplete pass or illegal batting on Rogers. Who sais anything about backwards?
A player may not bat or punch:
(a) A loose ball (in field of play) toward his opponent’s goal line or in any direction in either end zone.
I was talking about the scorer whose name I forgot who batted it trying to pick it up.
Yeah, you'd think that any fumble where the QB 'throws' it forwards is an illegal batting?
So yeah, then Rodgers and the other guys were in penalty.
either way you play to the whistle, so bad lapse on the Bears defense.
The ruling was that the impetus for the forward movement came from the defender. If it had been only Rodgers, it would have been a incomplete forward pass.
Making a forward pass isn't "batting". Nor is fumbling. "Batting" only happens when the ball is already loose.
it appeared to me that the ball popped out when Peppers hit it, and then Rogers on his follow through (because his arm was moving forward) hit it with his hand.
"Making a forward pass isn't "batting". Nor is fumbling. "Batting" only happens when the ball is already loose."
but it can't be both. either it was a fumble and Rogers batted it forward or it was a forward pass. If Peppers popped it loose, then Rogers batted it forward. Peppers didn't knock it forward, Rogers did.
"The ruling was that the impetus for the forward movement came from the defender."
was that announced on the field? I didn't hear that.
it didn't cost the bears the game. the safety that forgot to play defense on the td lost the game.
That is a nice theory, batting simply isn't called that way ever.
i know, just complaining to complain.
From the replay, the ball came out of Rodgers' grip before his hand started forward, hence the fumble. But it spun on his hand and remained contact, then left his hand before his hand hit the ball again and batted it.
I don't think they are going to make that call anyway if the bat is unintentional. Would have helped the Bears if they had played through the whistle.
Manning breaks single season yardage record 12 seconds before the half on a TDpass to go up 31-0.
Put some ice on those ankles Peyton, you're done for today.
I think Manning has broken the yardage mark by 1 yard. But I guess these are unofficial stats right now, so he plays a bit in third quarter.
Osweiler in. Would be funny if he loses the record again on an adjustment tomorrow.
If Mel Tucker isn't fired, I don't think I can stand to watch the Bears next season. That fumble return is just the icing on the cake. You see players run back obvious incompletions every game and the Bears just stand around on one that was definitely questionable on the field...why? How can they be that badly coached?
It figures that the one time all season that Peppers makes a play, it benefits the other team.
Glad to see I was wrong as Manning is out at halftime.
Double unsportsmanlike against the Bills.
One for bumping someone after the play. Then the linebacker had something to say during Huchilly's announcement so there was another 15 yards.
Didn't know it was possible. Or what the rules are.
I think one during the play and one after the play can be added together. But not two at the same time.
but that's what happened.
One after the play and one during the announcement.
I thought any number of dead ball unsportsmanlikes can be added together. Remember when Bart Scott blew a gasket in the 2007 NE@BAL game and NE kicked off from the *BAL* 35?
I'm still a bit aggravated that they didn't onside kick there.
Oh good. I'm not the only one.
Hell, I know nothing of that game (Colts fan) and I'm with you! If ever there is a time when an OS kick is NO risk HIGH reward, that's the time. IN fact, it's just wasting the yardage since a mere 15 is usually enough to guarantee a touchback.
It's not a huge risk, but you could end up kicking the ball out of bounds for an illegal procedure.
KC getting closer to a 2 score lead, Steelers fans must be enjoying things.
The Raiders are really going out on a high note, setting up a great 2014 season.
FO playoff odds for the Steelers prior to this week they were 9.1% Prior to week 16 was 0.8%! And that's without knowing that the Chiefs would bench their starters. This is so crazy.
(The numbers for the Chargers were 13.3 and 3.0, so even if the Chargers pull this one out, it's a pretty incredible AFC 6th seed)
It is as if Miami burnt themselves out beating the Patriots two weeks ago. They've been a shadow of that performance since they had the playoffs in their grasp.
I think the beating Tannehill got last week took a toll on him. Also, Milliner started playing better a couple of weeks ago, as did Geno Smith.
Thank God it didn't matter, but it sure looked like Jeffery had the TD. I see why Trestman didn't challenge though since I'm sure he would have lost the way this game is being called. And really, if you can't punch it in with 1st and goal from the 1 you don't deserve it.
Sounds like Chudzinski will be fired after 1 season.
Right decision or not? Having fewer wins than pro bowlers is a big ding against him, to be sure.
I think barring Bobby-Petrino-level conduct, every coach deserves a minimum of 2 years.
“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”
Not that many in-game decisions seemed to be that bad, and I agree that usually you'd have to go 2-14 or worse to get fired. Moreover, Norv and Horton may have been the best assistants the Browns have had since '99, by most metrics.
But the fact that he did a game worse than Shurmur (!!) with more talent, and the way some games were lost down the stretch (Pats, Jags) was troubling, or some where it just seemed like the team was sleepwalking for all (Steelers at home, Packers) or most (@ Bengals) of the game.
You can also argue that he never should've given Weeden the start initially, although Campbell had the same number of wins in games he played the majority of.
Yeah, doesn't seem fair, esp with all the QB chaos there...What could the explanation be (other than it's the Browns being the Browns)?
I'm thinking they figured that wanted to do things differently than in the recent past, where Mangini got another year for going on a win streak to end 5-11, and Shurmur got another year "because he'd figure things out eventually."
There's certainly an argument that if you can't get solid results immediately with 5 pro bowlers, you're not going to become a top-tier coach any time soon.
I really think the reasoning her is that Haslam and Banner strongly believe in the Accountability Theory of front office. That being that in order to turn around a losing team (or at least this Browns team), you must go to great lengths to make sure everyone knows accountability is demanded from players and coaches. If you believe in this theory, the Browns are now going about as far as you can with it. One season and done will definitely send their message.
The problem (and I think the problem with the previous Browns owner) is that this willingness to fire people doesn't ONLY send the message that you demand accountability. So the gains that you expect from ideas like "the players will know that they cannot slouch through the end of the season just because the Quarterback went down" run up against problems like "the players know the offensive system will change next year anyway, so they don't take time to learn it in depth".
There is also the question of what message this sends to future potential hires. One could say it makes clear that the timeline for improvement is immediate, but one could also say it makes clear that no coach will have a reasonable amount of time to set up an offense or defense. Whatever improvement you expect in terms of "The Coach knows he must hit the ground running immediately" is set off by "What Coach wants to work for an effective a one year contract?"
I worked for a company that had pretty terrible management for about 2 years.
The absolute worst thing they did began with saying they were going to "hold people accountable." There's absolutely nothing worse for employee moral than getting punished (or seeing other people punished) for things that weren't actually their fault.
I haven't watched enough Browns football to know whether Sherman is responsible for the losses, but if hes not, and you fire him, you send a bit of the "it doesn't matter whether you do your job, you're getting fired anyways" message.... which is terrible for employee performance.
Actually, the real problem is that they'll probably give the HC job to Norv Turner.
You think? Coaching firings and hirings are usually a group package, unless it's midseason.
There's a play summary you don't see every day:
Robert Turbin rushed up the middle for no gain. St. Louis committed 6 yard penalty. St. Louis committed 3 yard penalty. St. Louis committed 1 yard penalty.
The Rams defense is apparently relying on Arrow's paradox to keep the Seahawks out of the end zone.
I'll assume that's the "keep halving the distance" thing? And if so, I works great until the Seahawks actually get to snap the ball.
I'm pretty unhappy with two of those Unsp Conduct calls--a man talking to one ref, gesturing with his arms, hits a ref walking up behind him who happens to step into his hand? Ejected? Insane. NO excuse for throwing his helmet afterwards but if he's already ejected and on his way to the locker room (albeit still on the field) he's not part of the game--it's like if a ball-boy on the sideline did it, right?
From memory, Rod Smith got ejected once when he was talking he pushed away a ref who was behind him without realising it was a referee. He did the classy thing of apologising to the referees and his teammates after the game. Yes, it is an unfortunate, almost tricky-tack way to get ejected, but the physical inviolability of refs is a good thing. Soccer could do with a similar rule being enforced as strictly.
I think a player having been ejected remains part of the game until they have left the field.
The biggest problem with replay systems is that they can erode player respect for refereeing, though I think if handled correctly they should improve things over time. There seems to be a problem in cricket with having mostly senior umpires sitting in a booth to interpret the results of technology, there are plans afoot to specifically train a cadre of younger umpires as specialists to operate and interpret the cricket replay equipment (which offers additional technology, like the ball tracking seen in Grand Slam Tennis and additional microphones not always used in broadcast TV). This should help a lot, the possible NFL league replay office might help similarly as it would remove the issue of people having to reverse their 'instinctive' call made in real time based on evidence only clear in slow motion, having people expert at using the technology with control on the frame-by-frame and camera options would also likely speed things up. Though there is a worry if several games go down to wire across the country at he same time, how many remote booths would there be ( I'm sure the NFL can afford a whole suite of rooms to have one per possible game, but I can also seem someone deciding that say 3 would enough and that being fine until the day 4 or 5 games are in the last few minutes of the game or overtime situation together...).
(Double post, slow wifi and touch interface, sorry)
So should bears have gone for two there?
Force GB into a two score deficit.
Given that gb scored and kicked the pat, I guess it's a moot point now.
that would've made it 8 points, which is still one score.
It would've been 29-20, which is most definitely a two score game.
KC getting cute playing small ball. Bad news for the Steelers.
It's Andy Reid, it's not news.
it's only bad then, fair enough
What happens if the Chargers tie?
They're in outright at 8-7-1, beating the other four teams who are 8-8. A tie is as good as a win for the Chargers.
8-7-1 is treated basically as 8.5 wins, right? So they would be in at #6.
OT is worst thing possible for the Chiefs. So, of course, they settle for a 40+ yard FG which goes wide.
Sucks to be you, Steelers fans! Missed the playoffs by six inches.
... and an uncalled penalty for illegal formation which Mike Pereira says should have resulted in a rekick.
Pereira also said that the fake punt ended the game after the fumble return for a KC touchdown.
Blount up to 190 yds rushing on 22 carries, 2TD, and two kick returns over 60 yards today.
Was Tampa just totally misusing this guy?
Fake punt chaos in overtime...
What... the hell just happened (KC vs SD)
Fake punt, dive up the middle just got the yards. Someone ripped the ball out after forward progress was deemed stopped. So play was dead before KC got the ball.
Home-town officiating happened. I think the right call there is a win for KC. We only got one replay, but it looked like his forward progress was only stopped by the ball being ripped out and returned all the way.
I was listening to radio, so never saw it, thanks for that information.
I guess web highlights will be up for the play soon enough.
Yup, just watched the highlight. No idea why booth didn't review that one, looked like he didn't get knee down from what I could see on the only angle they gave us. Chargers were pushing Weddle and Chiefs were pulling the ball out, he never seemed stationary or down to me.
I really shouldn't charge the officials with bias-- down by forward progress could easily be the right call in situations like that.
But it really didn't look correct to me. He was inching forward with many players from both teams pushing him, and he wouldn't have gotten the first down without that help. And they quickly went to the next play, without sufficient explanation or review. (I think a "forward progress" ruling on the field may be unreviewable?)
I read on twitter that the runner's helmet came off and the officials called it dead then. Not sure if true, but a viable alternate explanation.
Quite an eventful month of officiating for the Steelers.
They can review whether or not the first down was gained, right? Seems fishy.
Has there been a spot of the ball review that was initiated by the booth? They don't seem to care about that too often.
A close play on 4th down in OT seems like a good time to start.
If Mel Tucker isn't fired tomorrow morning, I'll be pissed. Injuries and all that, but the best defense in the league doesn't become the worst in one year just because of that. I have never seen an NFL team so terrible at tackling.
So Mel Tucker comes in and "the best defense in the league" forgets how to tackle? OK.
Was this crazy or what?
Is defensive delay of game (when offense has the ball ready to snap) a real penalty. Because it got called on SF prior to AZ's last FG try. Anyone?
Defensive delay of game is called when the defense actively slows down the offense (kicking the ball, staying on an offensive player, etc.).
Yeah - none of that happened on this play. J. Smith on D was gesticulating that there had been an AZ false start, flag was thrown, Smith was penalized for defensive delay of game. He didn't impede AZ's ability to snap the ball - he was just jumping around.
I couldn't figure out that penalty either. I'm not sure what a defensive player on their side of the line of scrimmage could do to delay the game. I could see offsides or a neutral zone infraction as being valid calls if the line of scrimmage was violated, but defensive players aren't required to "set" before the ball is hiked, so I don't see what jumping on their own side of the scrimmage could do to delay the game, even if the player was trying to point out a "false start". I don't think players' gestures (well, at least not rude ones, which might draw unsportsmanlike conduct) have any impact on actual flags and signals. Otherwise, all those calls by DBs saying that a catch was incomplete might actually be more than "football theater".
On the other hand, for an odd call, it at least added a little life to the game, which was unfortunately essentially almost irrelevant at that point otherwise, since it only decided whether SF was 5th or 6th seed. It reminded me a little of that recent Cardinals/Steelers SB with all the lead changes at the end. This year has been a good one, for fans who like games competitive to the last play and who like frequent and often unexpected lead changes at the the end. I guess I should be counted among that group. At least that way one gets a full 60 minutes of a football-like substance....
Defensive teams used to have line calls that mimicked the snap count and a penalty was added if the ref believed the D was attempting to mimic or interfere with the snap count.
Don James's UW Huskies were famous for this. I know college example.
At halftime I thought the Bears were lucky to be only down six. In the second half… the Packers were fortunate to escape. On five Bears' drives they gave up three touchdowns and the only way the Bears were stopped was after a penalty and a bad run set up fourth and long, and then on the last drive where there was very little time left. The Packers' winning drive illustrated why long, ten-plus play drives are oftentimes not examples of offensive excellence they are thought to be. Before the touchdown the Packers had traveled all of 43 yards in 14 plays. They were hanging by a thread, it seemed, the whole drive.
Great game and good win for the Packers, but I can't imagine them beating San Francisco with that defense.
Absolutely no idea why the Eagles wouldn't go for it on 4th & 2 from the 30 against this Dallas defence
4th and 2 on the Eagles 40. Your defense is completely overmatched. You have a good offense and are playing against a mediocre defense. You are behind on the scoreboard. WHY ARE YOU PUNTING?
I think I would downgrade the Dallas offence from 'good' to 'mediocre' with Orton under centee. But clearly your point still remains.
Dismally conservative strategy from both coaches so far.
And Philly scores a touchdown anyway, because of course they do. Well done Jason.
Because I'm Jason Garrett, not that maniac Rivera.
It's almost like you think the point of this game is to win, rather that making sure I don't get blamed if we lose.
I'm still disappointed in the Bears, though I suppose the better team won. But what kind of defensive call was that on the 4th and 8? If you have an all-out blitz on, then at least cover the receivers man-to-man. All the defensive backs just stood there at the first down marker and let the receivers go right past them. Once they didn't get the sack right away, the touchdown was made ridiculously easy.
If you are rushing seven and a good QB gets outside free and clear, you are going to be in trouble no matter what.
Garrett should probably be going for it here too. And on comes the punting unit with no hesitation at all.
Ballet dancer turned NFL linebacker? That's a little too quaint, I'm calling BS.
Cowboys go 66 yards in 6 plays, including converting on 3rd and 12. But, you know, picking up 2 yards on 1 play is too much to ask.
Dallas far from being blown away here. Too bad about the two silly turnovers and the conservative coaching, otherwise they could be leading.
You mean if they weren't the Cowboys?
Yeah. Also, Kyle Orton looks pretty accomplished out there. You once again wonder why he seems to have settled for a career as a backup.
I'm sure Kyle Orton would be a starter if anyone let him.
Orton is who he is. A smart QB who generally makes good decisions, has nice timing on screens and does a good job with play action. However his mobility is iffy, and his accuracy past the 10-12 yard range is really questionable.
I just saw the playoff game slots. I have always wondered this: why aren't both conferences aligned the same? By that, I mean why don't the NFC and AFC seeds play on the same days? This year, Denver as a #1 seed plays the second Sunday, but Seattle as the NFC #1 seed plays the second Saturday. Wouldn't Saturday be the more advantageous, especially if the 4/5 game is the previous Sunday? That way, if everything holds to form, the #1 seed gets to play the #4 seed who is on short rest, and then if the #1 seed wins they play the championship Sunday on an extra day rest against the #2 on only their regular rest. Does that make sense, and if so, why don't both #1 seeds get the same advantage?
I know they seem to switch it every year, the AFC #1 on Saturday one year and then on Sunday the next, but wouldn't you want to give the #1 the most advantages? I can't imagine TV would care that much -- the ratings are great either way.
Woah. This has been a tremendous defensive effort from Dallas really. If Romo was playing it would inevitably end in tragedy, but with Orton there, who knows?
You know, that 4th and goal, if it fails it traps them on the 1 would sound better in hindsight if the defense didn't let Orton get to midfield in half a dozen plays.
Wow. Massive blunder by the time-keeper. Cowboys get jobbed 5 yards for nothing.
I knew they shouldn't have made Romo the time keeper while he's rehabbing.
Dallas gets screwed on delay of game call where clock wasn't set properly.
Keepin it classy officials.
Huh. So when you're trying to run out the clock, you run the football?!? And just take a sack? This is so strange.
Heh. You're a Saints fan, right Lance?
Orton gets the chance to be heroic or Romoric.
and now we know which it is ...
There is only QB-Dallas.
Hope. Orton giveth, and Orton taketh.
Kyle Orton demonstrates he's capable of running Romo's offense.
This should be a pretty good example of how Romo isn't actually the problem. The problem is that every game comes down to a last minute drive where they need to score, and shitty playcalling.
It should also demonstrate pretty conclusively that Romo is closer to Orton's level than the elite QB some want to make him.
Look around the NFL. There aren't many quarterbacks better than Romo.
But there are a lot in the same general category.
There are only about four guys I'd call elite (P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers).
Then there are the guys who aren't necessarily better than Romo now, but that you wouldn't trade for him because they're younger (Luck, Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, Newton, Foles, Tannehil, maybe McCown,Dalton and/or Manuel depending on your evaluation of those guys)
So Romo's in the group with solid QBs without much room for development (E. Manning, Stafford, Rivers, A. Smith, Roethlisberger, Flacco, Ryan, Palmer). Out of that group which guy you want depends on scheme, and what you want out of a QB.
So clearly better? Not a lot. In the same general realm of value to their team all things considered? Quite a few.
1. Orton puts in a decent performance, ending with a bad play.
3. Therefore, Romo is not an elite QB.
Could you please fill in the ??? for me? Because I ain't seeing it.
Broncos fans will find that familiar. Time and time again, Orton gives it away when the pressure is too high. Romo has the same reputation, but it's unfair to Romo because he's pretty darn good. Orton is (as Walsh said about DeBerg) "just good enough to get you beat".
and its amazing the number of Bears fans who still believe he made the defense play better. Orton + Lovies Defense = SB!!!! woot wott!!
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