Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

29 Sep 2012

Week 4 Open Discussion Thread

Here's your thread for discussing all of the Week 4 action. Now with real referees!

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 29 Sep 2012

172 replies , Last at 02 Oct 2012, 1:19am by weffy

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 9:26pm

Isn't there some kind of requirement on a person signalling fair catch to give enough time to the coverage team to see what he's doing? Browns just were penalized when it seemed like the punt returning didn't signal anything until the coverage guy was less than 5 yards away. Coverage guy crashed into him.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:19am

No, I've never heard of a rule like that.

2
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 9:33pm

It's not ironic that Ozzie Newsome is the GM of the Ravens and also the all-time receiving leader for the Browns. He moved with the Browns from Cleveland to Baltimore. No irony was involved.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 6:16am

Irony is a concept that many people don't understand. Alanis Morissette would call that ironic, but she'd be wrong.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Yaguar :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 10:32am

What is ironic is the Browns proudly claiming the history of their own division rival.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 7:35pm

According to the transitive property, Peyton Manning is the best QB in Browns history.

(I wonder how a Baltimore fan parses the argument that Otto Graham was a better QB than Johnny Unitas.)

3
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 9:45pm

Impressive 94-yard TD drive from the Browns. Trent Richardson in particular looks good. Glad the Browns are making this a watchable game. Was worried there.
(Knock on wood.)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 9:52pm

His numbers don't looks flash but several times already he has made 3 or 4 hard yards after contact. But I'd worry about him wearing down quickly carrying this team on his back.

5
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Khemy :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 10:10pm

Khemy
602/2/1

Is it just me, or every time the Browns put Obanaya on the field, he is the target?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Eddy (not verified) :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 10:54pm

Ogbonnaya is my dark dark horse, he looked fantastic in limited time with Houston last preseason, and was the most productive back for Cleveland last year. Yes, Weeden loves him on third down.

6
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 10:38pm

Don't often pay attention to cherry picked TV stats from artificially created samples, but Phil Dawson, 9 of his last 10 from outside 50, playing in a tough outdoors environment like Cleveland - that's pretty impressive.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 10:50pm

Pick 6 puts Ravens up by 13. Looks grim for the Browns.
Terrible pass by Weeden.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Khemy :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:00pm

Khemy
602/2/1

I think, you can check me, that this is the 3rd game in a row where Shurmer, down two scores in the 4th, kicked a field goal to go down....two scores.

10
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:02pm

I can't believe how empty those stands are. It's a nationaly televised game for a pretty good team, with an opponant they're nearly asured of beating.

Captcha:84u2c

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:11pm

It's raining pretty hard in Maryland right now.

And I suspect that Ravens fans are more likely to skip this game than they were to skip the Pats game on Sunday.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 6:00am

Remember it's a workday, too. Getting from the suburbs to the stadium on the Baltimore beltway is a nightmare. My partner had to show up to work at 6:30am in order to finish up in time to go to the game.

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 12:27pm

1. Not only was it raining pretty hard there was lightning. I thought about coming down from the upper deck a couple of times. The day was pretty nice and judging from what I saw in the stands not a lot of people looked at the weather report. I wore my pancho, but after a couple of hours it gets pretty damp even under a pancho.

2. A weeknight game for many fans who had already been up late Sunday. I stuck it out but I personally hate evening games. I didn't get home until after 1:30.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:06pm

Another fair catch interference call?

Twice in one night? I've gone entire seasons without seeing that called. (Not that it hasn't been called, just that I haven't seen it called very often.)

Weird.

13
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:22pm

Phil Dawson is a fantasy monster tonight.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:22pm

That looked like a pretty obvious grounding call to me. Not sure what Mayock was seeing.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:27am

wasn't he hit when he threw? that caused the ball to be way short (making it a non-penalty) - there was a receiver further down field

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:30pm

Wow. That was an easy flag to throw. I guess if you're a corner and you fall down, you might as well bring your receiver down with you.

16
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/27/2012 - 11:44pm

That was a silly foul to commit. Game over except for that push.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 1:33am

I wonder if performances like this will save Holmgren his job. It seems to me that this whole offseason was a lunatic hailmary from him, and it certainly has produced a strange, watchable team, which is a lot more than I think any of us expected.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BigCheese :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 4:34am

I was SHOCKED to see the Browns actualyl perform like an NFL team this game. They might actually NOT be the worst team in the NFL this year. And man, RIchardson sure runs hard...

- Alvaro

Phil Simms is to analysts what Ryan Leaf is to NFL QBs

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Fri, 09/28/2012 - 1:30pm

The may not be the worst team, but it seems like they have the toughest schedule among the bad teams.

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by alljack (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:43am

Does anyone remember that the regular NFL officials weren't that good to begin with? Being comically inept isn't all that much better than being fiercely inept. Their welcome back should be lukewarm at best.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by evenchunkiermonkey :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:02pm

I remember never thinking the regular officials could be on the take, I remember never thinking that an official was reffing his favorite teams game and I remember never thinking that a call was made to benefit an officials fantasy team.

So theres that, now shut up.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 12:00pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for football chat!
Instructions here because of overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Jake (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:14pm

NYJ has a 3rd and short from inside SF's 40. Sanchez takes a sack instead of throwing to an open Holmes. Ugh.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:14pm

Brady hits his first deep ball in probably 12 games, Dierdorf immediately proclaims him as having the best deep ball in the league.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:23pm

Just saw the Olsen touchdown. If I were a head coach I would bench anyone who didn't wrap up. It's so goddamned unacceptable. Stop trying to knock guys out of bounds.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:26pm

Commentators no better in the NYJ/SF game. On three consecutive plays, criticizing the Jets' defensive line on a run by Gore (which was called back for holding, explaining why they didn't get more than an arm on him), then a catch by Manningham which was immediately compared to the Super Bowl catch despite having virtually nothing in common with it, then praising the play-call on the Kapernick bomb to Moss as something which caught the Jets defense off-guard (then immediately backtracking on it as they were watching the replay and noting that the ball was thrown into triple coverage).

Cute reference on the Kyle Wilson jersey tug, though, on the "some referees would call that" since one of the thing everyone was whining about the replacement refs about was their consistent no-calls of defensive holding in the first couple of weeks...

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:31pm

I don't understand the timing of today's games. There are three west coast teams playing at 10am, but only one (Oakland) in five 1pm games. Does the NFL not care at all about west-coast audiences?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:33pm

Short answer: No.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:35pm

ANd J. Simpson draws a PI flag that would have everyone up an arms about the replacement refs if this was last week.

The DB pushes him, he pushes the DB, he says he won't get to the ball and just takes a NBA style swan dive, PI.

Ponder still not making the best decision, twice his second or third option has been wide open but he has been locked into his first and thrown it to a receiver with a man all over him.

Detroit's run defense looks atrocious. Their dreaded DLmen are nowhere to be seen.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:45pm

Well... the NFL showed me about 5 minutes of GamePass and it sold me. Stationed in Germany didn't think I'd be able to watch. Texans played a bunch of early games so far this year. So... now I'm getting to watch them.

Although some of the surprise is taken out by the fact Yahoo and NFL.com are updating plays about 30 seconds before the feed. However I'm living on the other side of the globe watching my favorite team. We live in great times.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:59pm

Then close the NFL.com tab in your browser?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 1:51pm

Charles Johnson having a hell of a day so far in ATL...

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:11pm

Bad unnecessary roughness call that the officials take forever to make and clearly didn't want to make. Vikings defender is tackling a guy, no whistle, no whistle, throws him to the ground, and the crowd roars, and suddenly flag.

Some clear home field advantage panic flag throwing, and the other officials knew it. Refs being what they are I expect a make up .

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:23pm

Been a shitty day as a Pats fan so far but getting worried upon seeing CJ Spiller split out wide lined up 1v1 against Jerod Mayo, then watching Mayo jam him so hard that he knocked him on his ass out of bounds made me laugh out loud.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:23pm

Hasselbeck in against Houston and Locker is on the sidelines in street clothes and sporting a sling after he reinjured his left shoulder on a sack early. Chris Johnson has been running well, although he's not getting his left shoulder worked on after taking an unflagged late hit by Demps on a 3-17 dump off pass.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by apbadogs :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 7:51am

That Locker injury was very odd, he was clearly hit on his right side yet his left shoulder pops out? Weird.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 8:14am

His left arm was hit as well (by Watt). I don't think the impact from Watt caused the injury directly; I think it led to him being unable to break his fall and consequently landing hard on his left shoulder, exacerbating the existing injury.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:27pm

Incredible, huge play by Brandon Spikes in Buffalo who stones Fred Jackson on the goalline to prevent a sure TD, and knocks the ball loose, Pats recover fumble.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:37pm

During the CBS Halftime show Bill Cowher is describing that play and refers to CJ Spiller. You'd think they could get the name right when describing it 10 minutes after the fact.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by evenchunkiermonkey :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:40pm

It was Spiller with the fumble.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:44pm

Well. I feel like an idiot.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by evenchunkiermonkey :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:43pm

Its OK, now Fred Jackson has one too.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:02pm

It was Spiller, my bad.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:27pm

Pats need to feed Ridley the ball in the second half, he's been gashing the Bills on the ground all day. I love the way this kid runs.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:44pm

Detroit's special teams playing just as well this week as they did last week. Two return touchdowns for the Vikings have MIN up 20-6. Reminds me of SD a couple of years ago...

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Fontes of Wayne :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:44pm

Two weeks in a row Detroit has allowed both a kickoff return TD and a punt return TD.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:48pm

Then DET punts on 4th & 1, on the MIN 40, down 14. At least it was a fair catch.

50
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:45pm

Brady's moving very well in the pocket today, extending plays with those little shuffles and slides. Buffalo's secondary is really playing well.

51
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:47pm

Regular refs miss a pretty clear intentional grounding by Hasselbeck.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:55pm

Kyle Wilson burned again and lucks out again when Smith is off-target on the deep ball. Not looking good for future games for the Jets.

54
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 2:59pm

Another opportunity manufactured by Brady finally pans out with a TD to Woodhead. Gronk has really let a couple big plays get away from him today, between a drop, the fumble, and a great play by a BUF DB.

56
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:05pm

Did something happen to Cunningham? I thought he was getting some good pressure on passing downs early in the game but he seems to have been replaced by Ninkovich here towards the 2nd half of the game.

57
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:15pm

Pretty generous assumption on the Brady scramble TD that his knee didn't actually hit the turf. Was ruled a TD on the field and there wasn't a totally conclusive frame on video but human physiology certainly makes it seem like it must have touched.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:35pm

That's not even the worst knee-related call in the game, if you count the selective enforcement of hitting QBs low.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:54pm

double post...

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:27pm

I'm gonna second that one. I thought the hit on Fitzpatrick was roughing, and they only called the one on Brady. It's hard to come up with any rationalization at all.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:21pm

Watching the game live, I thought Cunningham was going to get called, but on the replay, he jumps UP into Fitz's thigh. He hit him above the knee, I think it was a proper non-call. The hit on Brady was a result of Williams falling down, and trying to hit Brady instead of just falling.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:50pm

I thought that Cunningham wasn't called because he was blocked into Fitzpatrick. It was kind of a borderline "blocked into him", but there was a lineman pushing him down right before he hits him.

But most importantly, it actually looked like he was aiming at the thigh, and didn't make an attempt to grab and twist his leg. Whereas the for the hit on Brady, the defender drove right at the knee, grabbed, and twisted.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:26pm

Schaub has all day to pass. Titans are just not getting any pressure on him.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:39pm

I haven't seen the Pats run the ball like this in a LONG time.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:48pm

Vince Wilfork just bailed on his pass rush and dropped to put a ridiculous hit on Donald Jones running a shallow cross. Clean hit, but the weight differential was just so skewed, it looked like someone getting hit by a snow plow. Jones leaves the field under his own power.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:50pm

Texans with their second pick 6 of the game. Titans just feeding Chris Johnson the ball down 37-7. Johnson over 100 yards for the first time in a while.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:50pm

Detroit getting some homefield clock operation. Running play supposedly only runs off 1 second, the refs catch it and make them run off 2 more, then on the next play (a pass) the ball is 15 yards downfield before the clock stops.

And Detroit completely botches their timeout usage...

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:58pm

Er starts...not stops.

Great punt by Kluwe, and Detroit is wasting time on 10 yard passes. Stafford really has not been impressive. Lots of bad decisions and high passes (lots of drops too).

Ponder hasn't looked great either.

65
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:53pm

First time since 1982 that NE had two 100-yard rushers and (if I heard right) 2nd time in league history a team had two 100-yd rushers and two 100-yd receivers.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:54pm

Duplicate.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 3:58pm

Even though we have Sunday Ticket, I haven't watched a minute of Minn this year. Are they for real? (I hope so for Will Allen's sake.)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:06pm

They are a wild card caliber team. A shade over 8-8 I would guess in real strength.

The defense looks improved and the offense is average. Ponder is a liability, as is the lack of a decent non-Harvin receiver.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:09pm

Thanks. That's better than they were. Maybe I'll watch them a bit next week.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:30pm

I think they're better than that. 10-6ish team, pending injury possibilities down the road. Improved safety play, competent QBing, nothing flashy, but better than we've seen since 2009. Corners are still sorta meh, but a very solid team all around. They could even sneak into division lead if the Bears' offensive line holds them back and GB somehow fails to recover, but a wild card berth is very realistic.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:04pm

Again with the home clock operation, I wonder how much of HFA is simply that. Each play they are cheating a second or so.

Sack and the game is over.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Red (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:17pm

So the Pats put 45 points on the board in about 25 minutes? That's, uh, good.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:32pm

The Bills absolutely got whipped off the ball. Mark Anderson in particular was embarrassed over and over, and the Bills had a lot of trouble tackling ball carriers in the secondary, similar to New England in 2002, where every crease that brought a runner past the first linebacker turned into 10 yards. Apart from self-inflicted wounds, the Pats were dominant in all phases except for defending the deep middle of the field.

I guess the question is, how good are the Bills?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:38pm

"Mark Anderson in particular was embarrassed over and over"

Bears fans know exactly what you mean without seeing even one second of that game.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:34pm

Carolina completely blew that game against Atlanta. That fumble by Newton on 3rd and short was a killer. Of course, you would think a team could protect a 1 point lead with about 1 minute left when they downed a punt at the 1 yard line and the other team is out of timeouts. But a 58 yard bomb to Roddy White on the first play got the Falcons close to field goal position immediately. The safety on that bomb (Nakamura) should have had an easy play on the ball to at least knock it down, but he misplayed it.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:13pm

I hated that punt. 4th and 6 inches? If it was even that much? From the Atlanta 44? UGH just UGH.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:11pm

Mike Smith's revenge. Now coaches are afraid of going for it even when it's clearly the right call.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:50pm

OPI in the end zone goes uncalled yet again against GB. Boy, those regular refs make a huge difference, don't they? ^_-

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 4:56pm

Yeah, but at least it wasn't the last play of the game. And at least the offensive player actually did catch the ball after his uncalled OPI.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:19pm

OK...if that makes you feel better about it.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:12pm

That play today doesn't make me feel bad at all since I am a Bears fan. However, even Bears fans felt bad about the call on Monday night (despite the fact that the Bears are one of the teams that may benefit the most from that call). My point was that the call on Monday night (including the non-called OPI) decided the game. The non-call today doesn't decide the game.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:04pm

While it was OPI, it wasn't close to as bad as last week's last play of the game. I wasn't happy about it, but I've seen that uncalled pretty frequently.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:24pm

McCarthy wastes a challenge. Even if you're going to have to use a time out anyway, I don't know if you use a challenge when there is little chance of a play being overturned. These aren't last week's refs.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 5:27pm

Gutsy call by McCarthy. Four and inches from the GB 20 and Kuhn runs for a first down on a fake punt.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:50pm

Do they just have two cameras in Glendale? Seems like they should have a better angle on that fumble replay than the ones they've shown.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:57pm

OK never mind. Kolb has Fitz open for a TD at the snap, says "Meh," scrambles, throws a pick, then Hartline catches an 80-yd TD pass.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:11pm

I saw the replay of the TD and Hartline totally burned the Cards' strategy of ignoring an entire half of the field. Then Adrian Wilson gave a pathetic effort in the chase.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 6:59pm

Miami's gut check back-to-back plays against Arizona were kind of amazing. Endzone interception followed by a singleplay, 80 yard touchdown. Yeesh. And I thought the Bills' massive touchdown against the Pats was bad. Hartline was about 15 yards into the clear with nobody even in the picture. It summoned memories of Jason David!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:00pm

I'm really confused. What happened to the Arizona tackles between weeks 2 and 4? The Pats' defensive line isn't so much weaker than the Miami one. 6 sacks? 4 for Wake? What gives?

117
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:05pm

I didn't watch the game, but Cameron wake is a far better pass rusher than anyone the Patriots have. Starks has looked very good from what I've seen this year (the whole Texans game plus bits and bobs) as well - I think he's a better pass rusher than Wilfork (though not as good a player overall). The refs might make a difference too - perhaps the Cards got away with more holding in Foxboro than they could against the Phins?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:01pm

This Arizona game is becoming a case of "They aren't who we thought they were."

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:06pm

Well, Kevin Kolb is exactly who we thought he was.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:07pm

8th sack... When did the Dolphins swap d-lines with the Giants?

98
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paddy Pat :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:12pm

"They've been 10 and 2 over their last 12 games, and they have won a ton of them!"

Ahem.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 9:26pm

So, 1 game = 200 pounds?

99
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:22pm

These replacement replacement referees are terrible.

100
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:22pm

Watching the Green Bay game, eh?

105
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Stats are for losers (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:24pm

Completely lost control of the game... Woodson might kill someone.

101
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:22pm

And the Packers get screwed by the regular officials, too. That clearly was a fumble on the kickoff return. I can't believe the NFL assigned Jeff Triplette and his crew to this game after the Monday Night debacle.

103
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:23pm

Darren Sproles fumbled a kickoff return, but the refs miss play. The Packers have no challenges left. This is why I wasn't thrilled about McCarthy's first challenge.

106
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:25pm

Are they out of challenges? I haven't watched the entire game. I thought the issue was that there was no clear recovery on the fumble, as Buck and Aikman have pointed out.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by NYMike :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:13pm

Since all turnovers are reviewed, why wouldn't you call it a fumble just in case and have a review to GET IT RIGHT?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 8:31pm

Because if the review's inconclusive, you may just have awarded a team a turnover they shouldn't have been awarded.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:29pm

Agree with this.

Refs shouldn't be using video review as a crutch.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 1:26am

Totally agree. You don't call it unless you see it. Just po'ed McCarthy wasted his challenges needlessly. I actually agreed with his second challenge, but thought the first was stupid.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:23pm

Can the Lambeau crowd take back their standing O for the officials?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:24pm

Oh look, a call the replacements would have got right. Hilarious. Maximum lulz, do it Breesus.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:30pm

The Saints get flagged for delay of game and the refs give the Saints a time out. Even with the old refs back, one thing hasn't changed; Jeff Tripplett and crew remain the most incompetent crew among the regular officials.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:37pm

That TO call was legit, though; you could see the coach on the replay calling the TO with the sideline official (it was funny, though, watching Aikman circle the wrong guy on the telestrator...)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Guest789 :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:31pm

I usually hate complaining about the officials, but these last couple weeks... Jeff Triplette is an embarrassment.

-----

“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:33pm

Must say, the Retiree Bowl was pretty exciting.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by James-London :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:36pm

Miami, the most soul-crushingly difficult in the NFL to support...

Phil Simms is a Cretin.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:41pm

I really wanted them to win so everyone in the AFC East would be 2-2.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:44pm

Please tell me that the Redskins didn't just try to ice the FG kicker with 1:47 left. Icing is idiotic as it is, but they may, y'know, NEED that time-out to try to get the lead back on the ensuing drive?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Ivarsson.se :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:48pm

Just me or did Triplette sound really happy when he got to announce the game-icing 1st down for the Pack?

Edit: Not thinking he's a closet GB fan, but that he was happy his crew wasn't the 2nd in a row to rob GB off a win (which would have been the story of the missed fumble call).

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 9:11pm

It's not just you. I thought the same thing.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:49pm

Bucs may want to work on stopping teams that are trying to score at the end of the game

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 7:51pm

Billy Cundiff fails to miss his fourth FG attempt and the Skins take the lead with 3 seconds on the clock.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 9:05pm

The Laterals attempt on the ensuing kickoff has to be the lamest one I've ever seen. I mean... at least try guys.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:02pm

Crap commentary watch flags up Collingsworth. "It's not pushing off it's making space"

No, that's OPI. You are being paid to provide honest and unbiased commentary and you are failing, you have been failing for several years. Please get better or please piss off.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Independent George :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:39pm

I'm a Giants homer, so take this with a grain of salt, but it looked to me like Hixon was angling his body to clear space to make a play on the ball - something distinct from pushing off. It was the equivalent of boxing out for a rebound - the receiver establishes position, and uses it to keep the DB away from the ball without ever extending his arm.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:42pm

OK, while I am having difficulty remembering said play as a result of some over celebration of the absurd ending of the Ryder Cup, if what I wrote is a quote of Collingsworththen he can't possibly have been doing a very good job even if what you said is right.

He knows his stuff but feeds us drek, I'm sick of it.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Independent George :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:51pm

When did the Giants learn to play special teams? I'm flabbergasted.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:54pm

Great play by the Giants on 4th and inches. Am tired of watching QBs go for the obvious fake play designed to do nothing more than try to suck the defense offsides. Giants run an actual play and make tons of yardage.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Independent George :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:56pm

Ron Rivera needs to watch that and write, "I will not punt on 4th-and-1 with a 1-point lead" on the blackboard 100 times tonight.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 10:56pm

DRC is an idiot. Why is he running the ball out of the end zone?

Nice pick, though. But he just cost the Eagles 12 yards.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:31pm

With so many kickers around the league who can get the ball out of the end zone consistently on kickoffs, perhaps the Eagles might think about finding one of their own.

Their coverage tonight has been atrocious.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:35pm

That last PI was a bit light.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:37pm

Collinsworth thinks it's a "tough call" when the receiver grabs the helmet of the defender and pulls it back and is called for OPI.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:47pm

Sigh ... original comment eaten by spam filter. :-( Let's try this I didn't understand his point at all. It seemed pretty obvious to me.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DavidL :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:44am

At first I thought that was a make-up call, but then I saw the replay where he was basically forcing Asomugha to give him a horsie ride. PI doesn't get more blatant than that.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:38pm

STOP ICING KICKERS! These last-second timeouts only give the kickers a practice swing.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:43pm

Tom Coughlin and depending long range kicking at outdoors bird themed NFC teams have a hell of a track record. Watching it never gets old.

But icing kickers is pretty lame.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:41pm

If Coughlin had called his timeouts before the two minute warning not after it, the Giants would have had an extra 8 seconds for that last play - enough time to complete a pass in-bounds?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 09/30/2012 - 11:45pm

I've heard it said that 12 seconds is the absolute minimum for getting the kicking team out there and set for an attempt. If the team specfically practiced getting out there that fast.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Independent George :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 12:07am

I don't like the rush kick; even if you get on the field, I imagine it completely screws with your mechanics, especially on a long attempt.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 7:04am

The 3rd and 19 play would have come with 18 seconds remaining not 10. Pretty marginal, but not completely out of the question, and given that you're really pushing the limits of your kicker's range arguably worth it. Perhaps more saliently, 2-9 (the play on which the OPI was called) and 2-19 would have come at 33 and 29 seconds respectively - comfortably enough time to pick up 5-10 yards over the middle and spike the ball.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 1:52am

It would have been enough time for another pass interference penalty for sure. Although we don't know if it would be DPI or OPI. It seemed like every play in the last minute was a pass interference penalty.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 8:50pm

Dallas looked good for about 5 plays, and then the O-Line remembered that they stink.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 8:54pm

Man, Dallas LB #50 Lee really was a good find. He seems small, but really plays well.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:12pm

Yeah, for a passive-aggressive tool he sure can take a hit.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:14pm

Odd comment. I know nothing about him off the field.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:05pm

Wow! You could see that fumble coming, with Murray spinning right into someone's helmet. Who knew someone on their OL could catch? Which is more than we can say for Dez, who totally misses on a nice Romo pass. Though, I think he's right that the defender hit him in the facemask as he spun around...

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:26pm

Cutler hasn't been sacked yet!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Biebs :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:32pm

Is 1st and 5 from the 35 better than 2nd and 1 (or 2) from the 26? I wouldn't think so. Seems like a bit of overvaluing the first down there.

I'm curious if there's any sort of mathematical consensus on that

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:41pm

Lol Romo, don't ever change.

Murray, Romo, you are national treasures. Your brand of sports comedy never changes yet it's always daisy fresh.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:43pm

I like daisy fresh as a description.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:47pm

Didn't you mean to post this at ESPN?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:01pm

No at ESPN I'd post "Romo is 3/4ths of a great quarterback, but that last quarter is a real bitch."

The Cowboys are a good football team, but I don't watch them to see great football; I watch them because they make me laugh.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:52pm

Yeah, Romo's just a clown out there.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:54pm

He is rather bipolar as a qb.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:37pm

Quite the ringmaster. Sure, others can get the Bears to turn out bigger performances under the big top, but few have the flair for drama Romo does. Bruce Lee might observe that what makes Romo's foibles so special is "emotional content." Through him we become not just an observer, but a participant.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 9:55pm

Dallas aren't playing that well but isn't it fun watching Tyrone Smith against Julius Peppers. Smith is playing pretty well, though Wooten just managed to bull him for a couple of pressures.

Even as a 49ers fan who hates Dallas I still regard Smith as the best young tackle in the game, if not the best tackle overall.

Aside: am I the only person who likes the new Aaron Rodgers discount double check ad?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Red (not verified) :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:08pm

I take it you like big hips.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:38pm

Well yes but I don't see what that has to do with football?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:01pm

They're showing Unitas footage. What a horrendous release! He moves well in the pocket and his vision and decision making are superb but that windup would be a problem today. On the other hand he might have had more coaching to tighten that up if he was a modern dAy player.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:01pm

It sucks how a defense can play so well, but one drive can totally change the game in 2 min.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:16pm

When Hester does something like that it makes you think that he could be a real receiver but don't let it fool you,he'd be at his best as a fully integrated gadget like the way the Vikings use Harvin.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:25pm

And that why WRs should occasionally be charged with interceptions.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Lance :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:30pm

Dallas sucks.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 10:36pm

While Dallas have two good tackles, the interior if their offensive line might just be the worst I have ever seen.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 11:30pm

In order to win my fantasy match tonight I needed Robbie Gould to outscore Romo, which is kinda LOL.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen :: Mon, 10/01/2012 - 11:31pm

What did Dez Bryant think he was nodding to Romo about, after Romo's signal, just before the first pick six? That Romo brought the snacks for after the game?

Either Jerry Jones hires really stupid football players, or really bad coaches not named Parcells or Johnson. Or both.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Tue, 10/02/2012 - 12:01am

This is the first game in a really long time where the Bears receivers made the QB look better.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by weffy :: Tue, 10/02/2012 - 1:19am

I think Tice is making progress in how to game plan and call a game.

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