Talk amongst yourselves
7/29: KC IDP, STL RB
7/27: ARI TE, various IDP updates.
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29 Sep 2012
Here's your thread for discussing all of the Week 4 action. Now with real referees!
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 29 Sep 2012
172 replies , Last at
02 Oct 2012, 1:19am by
Isn't there some kind of requirement on a person signalling fair catch to give enough time to the coverage team to see what he's doing? Browns just were penalized when it seemed like the punt returning didn't signal anything until the coverage guy was less than 5 yards away. Coverage guy crashed into him.
No, I've never heard of a rule like that.
It's not ironic that Ozzie Newsome is the GM of the Ravens and also the all-time receiving leader for the Browns. He moved with the Browns from Cleveland to Baltimore. No irony was involved.
Irony is a concept that many people don't understand. Alanis Morissette would call that ironic, but she'd be wrong.
What is ironic is the Browns proudly claiming the history of their own division rival.
According to the transitive property, Peyton Manning is the best QB in Browns history.
(I wonder how a Baltimore fan parses the argument that Otto Graham was a better QB than Johnny Unitas.)
Impressive 94-yard TD drive from the Browns. Trent Richardson in particular looks good. Glad the Browns are making this a watchable game. Was worried there.
(Knock on wood.)
His numbers don't looks flash but several times already he has made 3 or 4 hard yards after contact. But I'd worry about him wearing down quickly carrying this team on his back.
Is it just me, or every time the Browns put Obanaya on the field, he is the target?
Ogbonnaya is my dark dark horse, he looked fantastic in limited time with Houston last preseason, and was the most productive back for Cleveland last year. Yes, Weeden loves him on third down.
Don't often pay attention to cherry picked TV stats from artificially created samples, but Phil Dawson, 9 of his last 10 from outside 50, playing in a tough outdoors environment like Cleveland - that's pretty impressive.
Pick 6 puts Ravens up by 13. Looks grim for the Browns.
Terrible pass by Weeden.
I think, you can check me, that this is the 3rd game in a row where Shurmer, down two scores in the 4th, kicked a field goal to go down....two scores.
I can't believe how empty those stands are. It's a nationaly televised game for a pretty good team, with an opponant they're nearly asured of beating.
It's raining pretty hard in Maryland right now.
And I suspect that Ravens fans are more likely to skip this game than they were to skip the Pats game on Sunday.
Remember it's a workday, too. Getting from the suburbs to the stadium on the Baltimore beltway is a nightmare. My partner had to show up to work at 6:30am in order to finish up in time to go to the game.
-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.
1. Not only was it raining pretty hard there was lightning. I thought about coming down from the upper deck a couple of times. The day was pretty nice and judging from what I saw in the stands not a lot of people looked at the weather report. I wore my pancho, but after a couple of hours it gets pretty damp even under a pancho.
2. A weeknight game for many fans who had already been up late Sunday. I stuck it out but I personally hate evening games. I didn't get home until after 1:30.
Another fair catch interference call?
Twice in one night? I've gone entire seasons without seeing that called. (Not that it hasn't been called, just that I haven't seen it called very often.)
Phil Dawson is a fantasy monster tonight.
That looked like a pretty obvious grounding call to me. Not sure what Mayock was seeing.
wasn't he hit when he threw? that caused the ball to be way short (making it a non-penalty) - there was a receiver further down field
Wow. That was an easy flag to throw. I guess if you're a corner and you fall down, you might as well bring your receiver down with you.
That was a silly foul to commit. Game over except for that push.
I wonder if performances like this will save Holmgren his job. It seems to me that this whole offseason was a lunatic hailmary from him, and it certainly has produced a strange, watchable team, which is a lot more than I think any of us expected.
I was SHOCKED to see the Browns actualyl perform like an NFL team this game. They might actually NOT be the worst team in the NFL this year. And man, RIchardson sure runs hard...
Phil Simms is to analysts what Ryan Leaf is to NFL QBs
The may not be the worst team, but it seems like they have the toughest schedule among the bad teams.
Does anyone remember that the regular NFL officials weren't that good to begin with? Being comically inept isn't all that much better than being fiercely inept. Their welcome back should be lukewarm at best.
I remember never thinking the regular officials could be on the take, I remember never thinking that an official was reffing his favorite teams game and I remember never thinking that a call was made to benefit an officials fantasy team.
So theres that, now shut up.
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NYJ has a 3rd and short from inside SF's 40. Sanchez takes a sack instead of throwing to an open Holmes. Ugh.
Brady hits his first deep ball in probably 12 games, Dierdorf immediately proclaims him as having the best deep ball in the league.
Just saw the Olsen touchdown. If I were a head coach I would bench anyone who didn't wrap up. It's so goddamned unacceptable. Stop trying to knock guys out of bounds.
Commentators no better in the NYJ/SF game. On three consecutive plays, criticizing the Jets' defensive line on a run by Gore (which was called back for holding, explaining why they didn't get more than an arm on him), then a catch by Manningham which was immediately compared to the Super Bowl catch despite having virtually nothing in common with it, then praising the play-call on the Kapernick bomb to Moss as something which caught the Jets defense off-guard (then immediately backtracking on it as they were watching the replay and noting that the ball was thrown into triple coverage).
Cute reference on the Kyle Wilson jersey tug, though, on the "some referees would call that" since one of the thing everyone was whining about the replacement refs about was their consistent no-calls of defensive holding in the first couple of weeks...
I don't understand the timing of today's games. There are three west coast teams playing at 10am, but only one (Oakland) in five 1pm games. Does the NFL not care at all about west-coast audiences?
Short answer: No.
ANd J. Simpson draws a PI flag that would have everyone up an arms about the replacement refs if this was last week.
The DB pushes him, he pushes the DB, he says he won't get to the ball and just takes a NBA style swan dive, PI.
Ponder still not making the best decision, twice his second or third option has been wide open but he has been locked into his first and thrown it to a receiver with a man all over him.
Detroit's run defense looks atrocious. Their dreaded DLmen are nowhere to be seen.
Well... the NFL showed me about 5 minutes of GamePass and it sold me. Stationed in Germany didn't think I'd be able to watch. Texans played a bunch of early games so far this year. So... now I'm getting to watch them.
Although some of the surprise is taken out by the fact Yahoo and NFL.com are updating plays about 30 seconds before the feed. However I'm living on the other side of the globe watching my favorite team. We live in great times.
Then close the NFL.com tab in your browser?
Charles Johnson having a hell of a day so far in ATL...
Bad unnecessary roughness call that the officials take forever to make and clearly didn't want to make. Vikings defender is tackling a guy, no whistle, no whistle, throws him to the ground, and the crowd roars, and suddenly flag.
Some clear home field advantage panic flag throwing, and the other officials knew it. Refs being what they are I expect a make up .
Been a shitty day as a Pats fan so far but getting worried upon seeing CJ Spiller split out wide lined up 1v1 against Jerod Mayo, then watching Mayo jam him so hard that he knocked him on his ass out of bounds made me laugh out loud.
Hasselbeck in against Houston and Locker is on the sidelines in street clothes and sporting a sling after he reinjured his left shoulder on a sack early. Chris Johnson has been running well, although he's not getting his left shoulder worked on after taking an unflagged late hit by Demps on a 3-17 dump off pass.
That Locker injury was very odd, he was clearly hit on his right side yet his left shoulder pops out? Weird.
His left arm was hit as well (by Watt). I don't think the impact from Watt caused the injury directly; I think it led to him being unable to break his fall and consequently landing hard on his left shoulder, exacerbating the existing injury.
Incredible, huge play by Brandon Spikes in Buffalo who stones Fred Jackson on the goalline to prevent a sure TD, and knocks the ball loose, Pats recover fumble.
During the CBS Halftime show Bill Cowher is describing that play and refers to CJ Spiller. You'd think they could get the name right when describing it 10 minutes after the fact.
It was Spiller with the fumble.
Well. I feel like an idiot.
Its OK, now Fred Jackson has one too.
It was Spiller, my bad.
Pats need to feed Ridley the ball in the second half, he's been gashing the Bills on the ground all day. I love the way this kid runs.
Detroit's special teams playing just as well this week as they did last week. Two return touchdowns for the Vikings have MIN up 20-6. Reminds me of SD a couple of years ago...
Two weeks in a row Detroit has allowed both a kickoff return TD and a punt return TD.
Then DET punts on 4th & 1, on the MIN 40, down 14. At least it was a fair catch.
Brady's moving very well in the pocket today, extending plays with those little shuffles and slides. Buffalo's secondary is really playing well.
Regular refs miss a pretty clear intentional grounding by Hasselbeck.
Kyle Wilson burned again and lucks out again when Smith is off-target on the deep ball. Not looking good for future games for the Jets.
Another opportunity manufactured by Brady finally pans out with a TD to Woodhead. Gronk has really let a couple big plays get away from him today, between a drop, the fumble, and a great play by a BUF DB.
Did something happen to Cunningham? I thought he was getting some good pressure on passing downs early in the game but he seems to have been replaced by Ninkovich here towards the 2nd half of the game.
Pretty generous assumption on the Brady scramble TD that his knee didn't actually hit the turf. Was ruled a TD on the field and there wasn't a totally conclusive frame on video but human physiology certainly makes it seem like it must have touched.
That's not even the worst knee-related call in the game, if you count the selective enforcement of hitting QBs low.
I'm gonna second that one. I thought the hit on Fitzpatrick was roughing, and they only called the one on Brady. It's hard to come up with any rationalization at all.
Watching the game live, I thought Cunningham was going to get called, but on the replay, he jumps UP into Fitz's thigh. He hit him above the knee, I think it was a proper non-call. The hit on Brady was a result of Williams falling down, and trying to hit Brady instead of just falling.
I thought that Cunningham wasn't called because he was blocked into Fitzpatrick. It was kind of a borderline "blocked into him", but there was a lineman pushing him down right before he hits him.
But most importantly, it actually looked like he was aiming at the thigh, and didn't make an attempt to grab and twist his leg. Whereas the for the hit on Brady, the defender drove right at the knee, grabbed, and twisted.
Schaub has all day to pass. Titans are just not getting any pressure on him.
I haven't seen the Pats run the ball like this in a LONG time.
Vince Wilfork just bailed on his pass rush and dropped to put a ridiculous hit on Donald Jones running a shallow cross. Clean hit, but the weight differential was just so skewed, it looked like someone getting hit by a snow plow. Jones leaves the field under his own power.
Texans with their second pick 6 of the game. Titans just feeding Chris Johnson the ball down 37-7. Johnson over 100 yards for the first time in a while.
Detroit getting some homefield clock operation. Running play supposedly only runs off 1 second, the refs catch it and make them run off 2 more, then on the next play (a pass) the ball is 15 yards downfield before the clock stops.
And Detroit completely botches their timeout usage...
Er starts...not stops.
Great punt by Kluwe, and Detroit is wasting time on 10 yard passes. Stafford really has not been impressive. Lots of bad decisions and high passes (lots of drops too).
Ponder hasn't looked great either.
First time since 1982 that NE had two 100-yard rushers and (if I heard right) 2nd time in league history a team had two 100-yd rushers and two 100-yd receivers.
Even though we have Sunday Ticket, I haven't watched a minute of Minn this year. Are they for real? (I hope so for Will Allen's sake.)
They are a wild card caliber team. A shade over 8-8 I would guess in real strength.
The defense looks improved and the offense is average. Ponder is a liability, as is the lack of a decent non-Harvin receiver.
Thanks. That's better than they were. Maybe I'll watch them a bit next week.
I think they're better than that. 10-6ish team, pending injury possibilities down the road. Improved safety play, competent QBing, nothing flashy, but better than we've seen since 2009. Corners are still sorta meh, but a very solid team all around. They could even sneak into division lead if the Bears' offensive line holds them back and GB somehow fails to recover, but a wild card berth is very realistic.
Again with the home clock operation, I wonder how much of HFA is simply that. Each play they are cheating a second or so.
Sack and the game is over.
So the Pats put 45 points on the board in about 25 minutes? That's, uh, good.
The Bills absolutely got whipped off the ball. Mark Anderson in particular was embarrassed over and over, and the Bills had a lot of trouble tackling ball carriers in the secondary, similar to New England in 2002, where every crease that brought a runner past the first linebacker turned into 10 yards. Apart from self-inflicted wounds, the Pats were dominant in all phases except for defending the deep middle of the field.
I guess the question is, how good are the Bills?
"Mark Anderson in particular was embarrassed over and over"
Bears fans know exactly what you mean without seeing even one second of that game.
Carolina completely blew that game against Atlanta. That fumble by Newton on 3rd and short was a killer. Of course, you would think a team could protect a 1 point lead with about 1 minute left when they downed a punt at the 1 yard line and the other team is out of timeouts. But a 58 yard bomb to Roddy White on the first play got the Falcons close to field goal position immediately. The safety on that bomb (Nakamura) should have had an easy play on the ball to at least knock it down, but he misplayed it.
I hated that punt. 4th and 6 inches? If it was even that much? From the Atlanta 44? UGH just UGH.
Mike Smith's revenge. Now coaches are afraid of going for it even when it's clearly the right call.
OPI in the end zone goes uncalled yet again against GB. Boy, those regular refs make a huge difference, don't they? ^_-
Yeah, but at least it wasn't the last play of the game. And at least the offensive player actually did catch the ball after his uncalled OPI.
OK...if that makes you feel better about it.
That play today doesn't make me feel bad at all since I am a Bears fan. However, even Bears fans felt bad about the call on Monday night (despite the fact that the Bears are one of the teams that may benefit the most from that call). My point was that the call on Monday night (including the non-called OPI) decided the game. The non-call today doesn't decide the game.
While it was OPI, it wasn't close to as bad as last week's last play of the game. I wasn't happy about it, but I've seen that uncalled pretty frequently.
McCarthy wastes a challenge. Even if you're going to have to use a time out anyway, I don't know if you use a challenge when there is little chance of a play being overturned. These aren't last week's refs.
Gutsy call by McCarthy. Four and inches from the GB 20 and Kuhn runs for a first down on a fake punt.
Do they just have two cameras in Glendale? Seems like they should have a better angle on that fumble replay than the ones they've shown.
OK never mind. Kolb has Fitz open for a TD at the snap, says "Meh," scrambles, throws a pick, then Hartline catches an 80-yd TD pass.
I saw the replay of the TD and Hartline totally burned the Cards' strategy of ignoring an entire half of the field. Then Adrian Wilson gave a pathetic effort in the chase.
Miami's gut check back-to-back plays against Arizona were kind of amazing. Endzone interception followed by a singleplay, 80 yard touchdown. Yeesh. And I thought the Bills' massive touchdown against the Pats was bad. Hartline was about 15 yards into the clear with nobody even in the picture. It summoned memories of Jason David!
I'm really confused. What happened to the Arizona tackles between weeks 2 and 4? The Pats' defensive line isn't so much weaker than the Miami one. 6 sacks? 4 for Wake? What gives?
I didn't watch the game, but Cameron wake is a far better pass rusher than anyone the Patriots have. Starks has looked very good from what I've seen this year (the whole Texans game plus bits and bobs) as well - I think he's a better pass rusher than Wilfork (though not as good a player overall). The refs might make a difference too - perhaps the Cards got away with more holding in Foxboro than they could against the Phins?
This Arizona game is becoming a case of "They aren't who we thought they were."
Well, Kevin Kolb is exactly who we thought he was.
8th sack... When did the Dolphins swap d-lines with the Giants?
"They've been 10 and 2 over their last 12 games, and they have won a ton of them!"
So, 1 game = 200 pounds?
These replacement replacement referees are terrible.
Watching the Green Bay game, eh?
Completely lost control of the game... Woodson might kill someone.
And the Packers get screwed by the regular officials, too. That clearly was a fumble on the kickoff return. I can't believe the NFL assigned Jeff Triplette and his crew to this game after the Monday Night debacle.
Darren Sproles fumbled a kickoff return, but the refs miss play. The Packers have no challenges left. This is why I wasn't thrilled about McCarthy's first challenge.
Are they out of challenges? I haven't watched the entire game. I thought the issue was that there was no clear recovery on the fumble, as Buck and Aikman have pointed out.
Since all turnovers are reviewed, why wouldn't you call it a fumble just in case and have a review to GET IT RIGHT?
Because if the review's inconclusive, you may just have awarded a team a turnover they shouldn't have been awarded.
Agree with this.
Refs shouldn't be using video review as a crutch.
Totally agree. You don't call it unless you see it. Just po'ed McCarthy wasted his challenges needlessly. I actually agreed with his second challenge, but thought the first was stupid.
Can the Lambeau crowd take back their standing O for the officials?
Oh look, a call the replacements would have got right. Hilarious. Maximum lulz, do it Breesus.
The Saints get flagged for delay of game and the refs give the Saints a time out. Even with the old refs back, one thing hasn't changed; Jeff Tripplett and crew remain the most incompetent crew among the regular officials.
That TO call was legit, though; you could see the coach on the replay calling the TO with the sideline official (it was funny, though, watching Aikman circle the wrong guy on the telestrator...)
I usually hate complaining about the officials, but these last couple weeks... Jeff Triplette is an embarrassment.
“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”
Must say, the Retiree Bowl was pretty exciting.
Miami, the most soul-crushingly difficult in the NFL to support...
Phil Simms is a Cretin.
I really wanted them to win so everyone in the AFC East would be 2-2.
Please tell me that the Redskins didn't just try to ice the FG kicker with 1:47 left. Icing is idiotic as it is, but they may, y'know, NEED that time-out to try to get the lead back on the ensuing drive?
Just me or did Triplette sound really happy when he got to announce the game-icing 1st down for the Pack?
Edit: Not thinking he's a closet GB fan, but that he was happy his crew wasn't the 2nd in a row to rob GB off a win (which would have been the story of the missed fumble call).
It's not just you. I thought the same thing.
Bucs may want to work on stopping teams that are trying to score at the end of the game
Billy Cundiff fails to miss his fourth FG attempt and the Skins take the lead with 3 seconds on the clock.
The Laterals attempt on the ensuing kickoff has to be the lamest one I've ever seen. I mean... at least try guys.
Crap commentary watch flags up Collingsworth. "It's not pushing off it's making space"
No, that's OPI. You are being paid to provide honest and unbiased commentary and you are failing, you have been failing for several years. Please get better or please piss off.
I'm a Giants homer, so take this with a grain of salt, but it looked to me like Hixon was angling his body to clear space to make a play on the ball - something distinct from pushing off. It was the equivalent of boxing out for a rebound - the receiver establishes position, and uses it to keep the DB away from the ball without ever extending his arm.
OK, while I am having difficulty remembering said play as a result of some over celebration of the absurd ending of the Ryder Cup, if what I wrote is a quote of Collingsworththen he can't possibly have been doing a very good job even if what you said is right.
He knows his stuff but feeds us drek, I'm sick of it.
When did the Giants learn to play special teams? I'm flabbergasted.
Great play by the Giants on 4th and inches. Am tired of watching QBs go for the obvious fake play designed to do nothing more than try to suck the defense offsides. Giants run an actual play and make tons of yardage.
Ron Rivera needs to watch that and write, "I will not punt on 4th-and-1 with a 1-point lead" on the blackboard 100 times tonight.
DRC is an idiot. Why is he running the ball out of the end zone?
Nice pick, though. But he just cost the Eagles 12 yards.
With so many kickers around the league who can get the ball out of the end zone consistently on kickoffs, perhaps the Eagles might think about finding one of their own.
Their coverage tonight has been atrocious.
That last PI was a bit light.
Collinsworth thinks it's a "tough call" when the receiver grabs the helmet of the defender and pulls it back and is called for OPI.
Sigh ... original comment eaten by spam filter. :-( Let's try this I didn't understand his point at all. It seemed pretty obvious to me.
At first I thought that was a make-up call, but then I saw the replay where he was basically forcing Asomugha to give him a horsie ride. PI doesn't get more blatant than that.
STOP ICING KICKERS! These last-second timeouts only give the kickers a practice swing.
Tom Coughlin and depending long range kicking at outdoors bird themed NFC teams have a hell of a track record. Watching it never gets old.
But icing kickers is pretty lame.
If Coughlin had called his timeouts before the two minute warning not after it, the Giants would have had an extra 8 seconds for that last play - enough time to complete a pass in-bounds?
I've heard it said that 12 seconds is the absolute minimum for getting the kicking team out there and set for an attempt. If the team specfically practiced getting out there that fast.
I don't like the rush kick; even if you get on the field, I imagine it completely screws with your mechanics, especially on a long attempt.
The 3rd and 19 play would have come with 18 seconds remaining not 10. Pretty marginal, but not completely out of the question, and given that you're really pushing the limits of your kicker's range arguably worth it. Perhaps more saliently, 2-9 (the play on which the OPI was called) and 2-19 would have come at 33 and 29 seconds respectively - comfortably enough time to pick up 5-10 yards over the middle and spike the ball.
It would have been enough time for another pass interference penalty for sure. Although we don't know if it would be DPI or OPI. It seemed like every play in the last minute was a pass interference penalty.
Dallas looked good for about 5 plays, and then the O-Line remembered that they stink.
Man, Dallas LB #50 Lee really was a good find. He seems small, but really plays well.
Yeah, for a passive-aggressive tool he sure can take a hit.
Odd comment. I know nothing about him off the field.
Wow! You could see that fumble coming, with Murray spinning right into someone's helmet. Who knew someone on their OL could catch? Which is more than we can say for Dez, who totally misses on a nice Romo pass. Though, I think he's right that the defender hit him in the facemask as he spun around...
Cutler hasn't been sacked yet!
Is 1st and 5 from the 35 better than 2nd and 1 (or 2) from the 26? I wouldn't think so. Seems like a bit of overvaluing the first down there.
I'm curious if there's any sort of mathematical consensus on that
Lol Romo, don't ever change.
Murray, Romo, you are national treasures. Your brand of sports comedy never changes yet it's always daisy fresh.
I like daisy fresh as a description.
Didn't you mean to post this at ESPN?
No at ESPN I'd post "Romo is 3/4ths of a great quarterback, but that last quarter is a real bitch."
The Cowboys are a good football team, but I don't watch them to see great football; I watch them because they make me laugh.
Yeah, Romo's just a clown out there.
He is rather bipolar as a qb.
Quite the ringmaster. Sure, others can get the Bears to turn out bigger performances under the big top, but few have the flair for drama Romo does. Bruce Lee might observe that what makes Romo's foibles so special is "emotional content." Through him we become not just an observer, but a participant.
Dallas aren't playing that well but isn't it fun watching Tyrone Smith against Julius Peppers. Smith is playing pretty well, though Wooten just managed to bull him for a couple of pressures.
Even as a 49ers fan who hates Dallas I still regard Smith as the best young tackle in the game, if not the best tackle overall.
Aside: am I the only person who likes the new Aaron Rodgers discount double check ad?
I take it you like big hips.
Well yes but I don't see what that has to do with football?
They're showing Unitas footage. What a horrendous release! He moves well in the pocket and his vision and decision making are superb but that windup would be a problem today. On the other hand he might have had more coaching to tighten that up if he was a modern dAy player.
It sucks how a defense can play so well, but one drive can totally change the game in 2 min.
When Hester does something like that it makes you think that he could be a real receiver but don't let it fool you,he'd be at his best as a fully integrated gadget like the way the Vikings use Harvin.
And that why WRs should occasionally be charged with interceptions.
While Dallas have two good tackles, the interior if their offensive line might just be the worst I have ever seen.
In order to win my fantasy match tonight I needed Robbie Gould to outscore Romo, which is kinda LOL.
What did Dez Bryant think he was nodding to Romo about, after Romo's signal, just before the first pick six? That Romo brought the snacks for after the game?
Either Jerry Jones hires really stupid football players, or really bad coaches not named Parcells or Johnson. Or both.
This is the first game in a really long time where the Bears receivers made the QB look better.
I think Tice is making progress in how to game plan and call a game.
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