Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

29 Sep 2013

Week 4 Open Discussion Thread

Feel free to discuss some of your favorite Week 4 storylines here, starting with who replaced the San Francisco offensive line with styrofoam for the last three weeks.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 29 Sep 2013

175 replies , Last at 01 Oct 2013, 12:20pm by georgebowles

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 8:37pm

Oh no. I just walked in the room and it's Jeff Triplette. Expect weirdness to commence soon.

30
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bob P (not verified) :: Fri, 09/27/2013 - 12:18pm

Speaking of Jeff Triplette...I think this has been covered here before, but does anyone know where there are ongoing numbers available on officials and number (and types) of penalties called by their crew? Thanks for any guidance!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:56pm

I second this question, I'd love to see that. Though maybe googling it myself will work :)

2
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by greybeard :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 8:49pm

Rams second drive ends up with a field goal. But with a better QB that 3rd down would have been an easy TD.

3
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by greybeard :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 8:57pm

Kaep had Miller wide open for 15 yards gain instead hessitates and sacked for 8 yards loss. Drive ends with a terribly executed screen pass. Rams are trying to give 49ers points by stupid penalties. 49ers haven't taken advantage of it yet. Seems like a game of offensively challenged teams so far.

4
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:02pm

Thursday Night Football at its dubious best.

5
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:12pm

Illegal formation on a punt?

6
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:18pm

It's a shame that DVOA cannot punish Bradford for "pass that should have been intercepted but turned into a long completion."

7
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by greybeard :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:19pm

Bradford throws the ball directly to Whitner. Instead of interception he tips the ball to the WR. Are all Thursday games this sloppy?

10
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:36pm

Some are worse.

8
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by greybeard :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:20pm

They are putting a clinic on how not to play QB today.

9
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:29pm

For somebody who can't get open, Boldin certainly is getting open tonight.

12
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:42pm

The Rams pass defense is not good at all. Looking at SF offensive DVOA splits head-to-head against Rams defensive splits, Boldin and Davis are huge mismatches in the numbers. Davis isn't at full strength, of course, so in theory that one's less of a mismatch. Boldin's so far doing what the numbers suggested he might.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:43pm

Boldin is a starting-caliber NFL receiver, so he gets open from time to time.

11
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:38pm

"Rams are the worst in the NFL at 3rd and 1."

So Bradford lobs a floater to a well-covered receiver. Defender tips it and it's intercepted.

A running game that could consistently pick up 1 yard would be nice. Lacking that, the Rams need a QB who knows how to throw a pass to pick up 3rd and short. That pass was an injured duck.

14
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:44pm

The way Bradford has been playing tonight, he deserves at least 1 first half pick.

15
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 9:58pm

And we see how a short-yardage rushing game can be so important. The Rams, who have no confidence in their running game, instead lob a terrible pass on 3rd and 1, which the 49ers graciously intercept. The 49ers blast away on 4th and short, find a hole and Frank Gore gallops for a TD.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 10:06pm

Yay! 49ers utilize obscure rule to attempt a free kick after a fair catch.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 10:46pm

It would have been cool had he made it. Last time I saw one I was a kid and the Bears beat the Packers circa 1970. I hadn't realized the last successful one the mid-70's.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DA (not verified) :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:16pm

Bradford has never met a 3 yard pass he didn't like. He is like Jason Campbell 2.0. STL should be looking for a QB in the Draft

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:27pm

At least the Rams should have several QBs to pick from. And the draft picks to take advantage of them.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:25pm

I guess Jaguars fans aren't going to have to listen to anyone talk shit about their team for a week. Outside of the rare fair catch kick this game has been hard to watch.

21
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:35pm

Thoughts from a Colts fan: Okay, if the Niners are more or less for real, the Colts will get some nice opponent adjustments.

Is the Colts rush game really that good (looking at how SF is bottling up STL runners)? Or is STL that weak?

Is Vernon Davis really THAT important to the Niners' success? Wrap him in bubble wrap six days a week and declare him mayor for life.

Using the additive property of NFL scores, I predict the Colts will beat the Rams by a score of (so far) 55-10.

EDIT: Check that--the Colts/Rams score will be 55-18.

Unless the transitive property of NFL scores results in the average score of the two games being 27.5 to 9.... naah, I like additive.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:39pm

I don't think Davis is specifically that important. But I do think they need at least one more pass option besides Boldin. Once Davis is healthy and Crabtree is back, the SF offense should be much more effective. (Caveat: Packers fan) They do look effective enough tonight.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Fri, 09/27/2013 - 10:41am

They missed Davis' run blocking too, he's their best blocking TE.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:40pm

Ouch. That was one nasty facemask.

24
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by greybeard :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:49pm

Is it Bradford worst QB in NFL? I don't watch him often, probably 12-15 times so far. The best game he played in those games he was average. In most of those games he played terribly. Maybe I saw his worst games, but never seen him do anything special.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:55pm

I don't think he's the worst. But he's probably not a QB you want as a starter.

27
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Peregrine :: Fri, 09/27/2013 - 9:32am

Yep. Watching Sam Bradford in "action" makes you wonder why the Rams just didn't use the #2 pick of the 2012 draft on Griffin instead of trading it away.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Thu, 09/26/2013 - 11:54pm

Damn. I hate to see anyone injured anytime. But especially once the outcome is pretty much determined.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Go pats (not verified) :: Fri, 09/27/2013 - 10:37am

I said it then and I will say it again, the Rams are idiots for trading the #2 pick to washington. They are stuck with Bradford who sucks when they could have had RGIII. Hope all those first round picks are working out for you. QB is the most important position. In a few years, if the Redskins are smart and build around RGIII, they will own that division while the Rams will forevevr be stuck in 3rd place.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:44pm

A lot of talk this past offseason in the DC area about what the Redskins would have looked like without that trade. They might have had Russell Wilson and all the draft picks, too.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 12:51pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of real time football chat!
Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Michael LaRocca (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:06pm

There's a great sense of relief in knowing the Panthers will go a second straight week without losing a game.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:11pm

"It's a beautiful day here in Jacksonville. The crowd is still filtering in..."

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:38pm

Houston has been moving the ball through the air against the Seahawks, but have nothing to show for it at the end of the 1st Quarter because of a tip drill interception. And they take the lead with a TD to Graham on the first play of the 2nd quarter when the TE blows the top off the Seattle secondary.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:39pm

Ravens offense off to a horrible start for the 3rd straight game.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:44pm

The Chiefs have been absolutely dominating the Giants. A blocked punt meant that they had nothing to show from their defensive domination, but then they went on a 98 yard drive to take the lead.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:47pm

And then, in one play, the Giants show why they have the highest variance of any team in all of the cosmos.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:48pm

Ravens strip sack Manuel, Cordy Glenn has an easy fumble recovery but acts like an uncoordinated big fat guy, Ravens recover. Ravens score, up 1 despite starting very slow.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:55pm

Looks like the Colts are using Jacksonville to practice their passing game. No fear of the Jax offense if the Jags get a pick, and confident their running game can grind the clock in the second half.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:56pm

Texans are shredding the Seahawks halfway through the 2nd quarter. A toss from Schaub to Foster in the flat gets them the 14-3 lead. But they're getting yardage consistently and in large chunks.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Crunch (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:03pm

It should be interesting to see how well Seattle's O can play trying to come from behind.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:46pm

Turned out it wasn't Seattle's O which mattered, but their D.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 1:59pm

Jamaal Charles not distinguishing himself in the short passing game, first dropping a middle screen and now not looking on a swing pass that could have gone for a good gain on second-and-10.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:02pm

Brian Cushing treats Marshawn Lynch like a tackling sled and forces a fumble which the Texans recover inside their 20. Houston in excellent position to expand their lead heading into the half.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:03pm

Billy Cundiff reminding me why I did not draft him for my Loser League team--because I figured there was no way he'd keep his job.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:11pm

Flacco throws a good pass to Ed Dickson over the middle, who pops the ball up in the air right to Jim Leonard for an INT. Dickson had a huge opportunity in his walk year once Pitta got injured, but I can't imagine he'll see many more passes thrown his way this year.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:28pm

The Cundiff factor in play again! Once again, the Browns leave points on the field against a superior opponent, wasting a two-minute drill.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:42pm

Ended up not mattering...what a disaster it would have been had Billy the Kid's two misses mattered.

47
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:31pm

Michael Bennett of the Seahawks gets his neck snapped back while the pocket was collapsing on Schaub. He needs to be taken off the field on a backboard, but was moving around under his own power before being carted off. The Bennett's father was in the stands for the game and he was escorted back into the clubhouse to be with his son. 10 seconds left in the half with the Texans in long field goal range.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:52pm

FOX reports that Bennett has movement and the Seahawks are hopeful he'll be able to make the flight back. Was a scary-looking injury when it happened so am glad to hear that the player is going to be okay.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:31pm

The Giants missed a chance to use their timeout with 19 seconds left and try for a touchdown before the half right after converting a fourth and two. They gain a few yards and try a field goal after all. Going for it on fourth was the right call, but I don't understand why only go for maybe a few more yards to barely improve the kick at all.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:54pm

Ref in the Seahawks game:

"False start, offense... Most of the offensive line."

Awesome.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:55pm

You are freakin' kidding me! I have to find that online!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Jakob S (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 12:13am
168
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by NYMike :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 10:38am

Last week, I heard a ref say: "False start. Everyone but the center."

51
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 2:54pm

At the start of the second half in Houston the Seahawks go 3 and out giving up a sack, a penalty, a short checkdown to Lynch and then Wilson barely avoiding a sack by scrambling for 1 yard on 3rd and 12ish.

52
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:07pm

JJ Watt stops Lynch on 3rd and 1 forcing the Seahawks to punt. When Watt's rookie deal is done he is going to be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:56pm

Deservedly so. A little hard to admit this in my Colts jersey, but I love watching him play.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:09pm

Tate gets the ball stripped giving the Seahawks the ball deep in Texans territory. THis might be the change they need to get back into the game because they've been getting shut down so far.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:13pm

Seahawks go no where after recovering the Tate fumble. Texans force a 3 and out and the Seahawks settle for a FG.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:31pm

Ravens gain 4 yards on 2nd and 10, commit an illegal formation penalty. Bills decline?! Ravens pick up the first down on 3rd and 6.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:33pm

Wilson is successfully running for his life against the Texans defense, managing to avoid the sack and get nice yardage. Seahawks still down by 14 with 10 minutes left in the game.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:39pm

Seahawks score to bring it within a TD after Wilson picks up a 4th and 1. 7:45 left in the game with Houston about the receive the kickoff. Texans need a time-consuming scoring drive to hold on and pull off the upset.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:40pm

Very questionable overturn of a TD catch for the Bills. Bills settle for 3. Ravens benefitted from another close call on replay earlier in the game when a Tandon Doss fumble was ruled incomplete.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:45pm

I thought that ball was being juggled.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:50pm

Russel Wilson throws an INT to Joseph on 3rd down with the Seahawks in Texans territory. Houston now trying to grind out the clock on the ground.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:53pm

And then Shaub gets picked by Sherman who runs it in for a TD, tying up the game.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 3:53pm

Schaub throws the stupidest throw in the history of stupid throws and Richard Sherman takes it to end zone for a pick-6.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:06pm

Seattle-Houston headed to OT.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:13pm

The London game ends with a Big Ben fumble. I don't know what he was thinking, waving the ball around like that as he's getting sacked. Was it 4th down?

66
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by chasehas :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:13pm

That HOU punt on 4th-and-4 from the SEA 43 with 0:30 left was terrible. ANS calculator (win probability):

Go4It: 0.61
Punt: 0.49
FG Att: 0.40

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Jovins :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:42pm

That doesn't take into account that it's the Seahawks defense and the Seahawks offense, does it? I'd imagine that it would be considerably harder to convert a 4th down and 4 against Seattle than most other teams.

67
Trent Richardson
by usernaim250 :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:16pm

Game wasn't on in my area, but not only do his stats look the same as in Cleveland, against a bad run defense, but the other guy they handed it to outgained him with just three carries.

Any reason he's not as bad as he looks?

111
Re: Trent Richardson
by Bobman :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:01pm

I wouldn't kick Richardson to the curb yet based on Donald Brown--he did what he does. A 50 yard run because he's fast, and his next 20 runs will be very mediocre, including a couple missed blocks and small nagging injuries.

But expectations are certainly high for Richardson. So he better get his act together. I assume he'll be in a lot more vs the Seahawks next week simply because Brown's blocking is suspect and the Hawks' D brings the heat.

171
Re: Trent Richardson
by usernaim250 :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 12:41pm

It's not just the one run that outgained 19 Trent totes totaled, but his other two gained fifteen, which Trent would take five to gain on average.

Meanwhile, McGahee (wait, he's still alive?) comes off the street and puts up a Trent-like 3.1 ypc on 15 runs, but he does it with Brian Hoyer (not Luck) at QB and against a top notch Cincinnati defense. And Bradshaw had a much better day against the vaunted SF defense than Richardson could muster against the sad sack Jags.

Maybe Trent will get it figured out, but right now it looks--from the numbers--like he's just not capable of even moderately successful runs (6+) on a regular basis. And that now two teams have been suckered by a guy who has shown no reason for even being on an NFL roster, much less rating a first round pick.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:18pm

Houston unable to score the TD on the first possession of OT. Then forces the Seahawks to punt on their subsequent possession. Ed Reed makes a huge stop of Russel Wilson running in-space on 3rd and long to stop him well short of the first down.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:18pm

We really need a seminar on "Protecting 4th Quarter Leads." Bucs, Texans, and possibly Bills need to attend.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:27pm

Somebody just compared Russell Wilson to a white guy. It was Doug Flutie, and the comparison is really good, actually.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:28pm

They didn't say he was "gritty" though.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 6:09am

baby steps

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:28pm

Houston's punt coverage fails at the worst time. Golden Tate fields a Lechler punt at the goal line and take it out to the 32. 6:15 left in OT as Wilson scrambles for a first down just short of midfield.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:30pm

Kareem Jackson gets hit with a giant personal foul for unnecessary roughness when he body slams Doug Baldwin after his forward progress was stopped.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:32pm

Last week we learned that the German suplex was a legal tackle, but now this week we learn that the side suplex is not. Defenders need to know their pro-wrestling moves!

(In all seriousness, if the tackle can most efficiently be described by reference to a pro-wrestling move, the flag is almost certainly justified.)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:39pm

So, hitting the guy with a chair isn't a legal tackle, then?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:03pm

Damn. I guess the NFL just wants us to let them catch TDs.
--Donte Whitner

note to self: return all those cheap chairs to Ikea Monday.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:34pm

I like to think that Hauschka making that FG is karma rewarding Carroll for at least trying to pick up the first down there rather than just settling for the long field goal try.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:37pm

Ravens were going to lose the game. But what a lame penalty that denied the Ravens one last chance to see the ball. What was the foul? Manuel had not taken a knee and wasn't down when Suggs hit him. Refs can't just call unnecessary roughness if they don't think the hit was nice.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Eddo :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:49pm

He did rip off Manuel's helmet, so I imagine that counts as a blow to the QB's head.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:00pm

I didn't think he ripped it off at all. His helmet came off on the tackle, but that often happens. And the call wasn't roughing the passer.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:23pm

It was a stupid call. EJ Manuel hadn't simply taken a knee. He was running a play. And he wasn't in the process of trying to pass the ball.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by hrudey (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:26pm

Much like the hit by David in week one that handed the Jets a win, I keep hoping one of them will force a fumble that's recovered by the defense, so we can see the "late hit" that forced a fumble during a live ball be called as a dead ball foul.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by dcaslin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:26pm

I'm curious to see how this plays out in the coming week. The Bills did the reverse Schiano douche play. Schiano was a douche trying to break up the kneel down with little chance against the Giants last year. The Bills were douches for doing a fake kneel down to take time off the clock. Its doubly silly since it puts their decent QB up for unnecessary hits. The refs only compounded the issue by rewarding said douchery with a highly questionable personal foul. There were probably 1% odds the Ravens tie or win in the 5 seconds they'd have had on the clock as well.

Woulda been kinda fun if Jim Harbaugh had taken over for his brother at the coaches shake, I suspect it would have been much less boringly cordial...

101
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:03pm

Apparently Boger said to Suggs that since Manuel's helmet came off, he had to take a look at it, and he had to err on the side of safety. Note that he did not say that Suggs committed an infraction of the rules and therefore deserved a penalty.

82
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 4:52pm

Again, I think to myself, "Houston CUT Trindon Holliday last year?" They decided that he was simply not good enough to play for their football team?

113
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:05pm

I think he had too many fumbles, but was kicking myself because the perpetually return-challenged Colts did not sign him.

84
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:12pm

As much as I appreciate that Jim Caldwell is not He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, he still is pretty average as an offensive coordinator. That said, this loss was more about Flacco's one "kill the team" outing per year, along with the injured RB situation, than anything long-term concerning.

85
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:19pm

Andy Reid already has as many wins coaching the Chiefs as Romeo Crennel had in his entire 19-game tenure as head coach.

87
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:23pm

The Broncos are being beat badly on defense. I'm not used to seeing the line get pushed around this much.

88
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Steve in WI :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:29pm

Anybody else unable to watch the Eagles-Broncos game on their local Fox affiliate? Ours has been a black screen for over half an hour (Madison, WI). I'm guessing it's just the local station, but man that pisses me off. I pay for Sunday Ticket but of course the game's blacked out there since it's supposedly airing on the local station.

Between this and the screw-up at the end of the 1st half of the Bears game the other week, I hate Fox.

115
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousness (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:09pm

wasn't just you We lost in twice in Albuquerque

118
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:34pm

In Colorado Springs was going in and out all day. Local station insists it's a problem with DirecTV.

152
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 12:27am

Awesome, where do you usually go on Sundays? I usually go to the Old C downtown. Today I met the father of the Redskins recievers coach there!

89
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:52pm

He he, was that P. Manning mouthing "stupid motherf*cker" after Moreno committed a personal foul?

90
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by bobrulz :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 5:59pm

Who says Peyton Manning can't throw the deep ball anymore?? That pass to Decker was beautiful.

91
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:02pm

Oh man, Locker looks like he got injured in a weird and not good way.

92
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:17pm

Again: Broncos don't need b.s. DPI calls to help them score. Please don't give them any, officials.

93
Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:22pm

I think Decker sold it by leaving his hand back and making it look held. Makes up for some of those questionable calls in the Giants game.

Anyhow, why can't most penalties be reviewed?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:26pm

So, the Chargers get a TD to pull within 2. Why, then, do they take the PAT to close within 1? Isn't this the one case where it's pretty much indisputable that the correct decision is to go for 2?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:15pm

Not with that much time left, because you don't yet know the end game. If they'd gone for it and missed, their subsequent field goal and touchdown would still have them in a one-possession game at this point.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:33pm

That's really not a good enough reason.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:07pm

I'm with you.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:11pm

Why not?

The net result per play is almost identical, although going for 2 is much higher variance. In a matchup of even teams, early in the game, the choice is statistically a wash.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 6:16am

Theoretically with two completely even teams, if the trailing team is presented with an opportunity to increase variance without sacrificing mean outcome, they should pick the high variance option every time.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Scott C :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:09pm

Oh, the Irony!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:28pm

I'm glad the Broncos have been sending four a bit more, if only because the Eagles were picking up the blitz anyway.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by whiskeydj :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:43pm

I think Cunjunction Aikman has mastered the art of circular breathing. Just endless, mind numbing bloviation.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:53pm

Second block of the year for the Broncos.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 6:54pm

Annnnd...Fox hands us us over to the DAL/SD game with 13:54 left in the fourth quarter in Denver. Halftime adjustments are, apparently, a thing.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by bobrulz :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:19pm

They stayed on the Denver game in my market lol.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by usctrojan11 (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:27pm

bills te scott chandler 30 yd rec was ruled incomplete incorrectly. while true that his left foot did not come down on the ground, it came down on his right foot which was on the ground inbounds. therefore it was down on something inbounds and shouldve been upheld upon review(call on the field of a catch was correct)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:38pm

Not sure, is he counts as being inbounds if he hasn't got his second foot down?

Therefore his second foot coming down on his first foot might be coming down on something that is not considered inbounds (because the second foot has not touched the ground...).

Fortunately the Bill won anyway so we don't have to get philosophers involved as well as replay officials :)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by usctrojan11 (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:46pm

his right foot was on the ground inbounds when his left foot came down on it. i feel that it shouldve counted according to the rules.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Eddo :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 7:55pm

Yep, we got how you feel in the first comment, but the better question is, "Is that what the rules actually state?"

Considering a player is NOT down if he is laying down on top of another player, it seems that the rules do NOT consider body parts to be part of the ground. Therefore, stepping on your own foot would NOT be the same as stepping on the ground.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by usctrojan11 (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:10pm

being down with regards to forward progress has no bearing on this. in the past nfl refs have ruled that touching something that is out of bounds(for example, a loose ball touching a helmet that is partially out of bounds) has been considered OOB. it would be inconsistent to not apply it the other way. thats why "i feel" that according to the "rules" it was a bad call.

the rules are not entirely clear on this, however, thats why the word feel is appropriate here, thanks.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:42pm

No, I think the rules are clear. If both feet are down or another body part besides the hand touch down inbounds, then it's a catch. But other body parts (from either receiver or DB) are not considered an extension of the ground, i.e. you cannot be ruled to have established two feet in bounds by the transitive property. A receiver needs to establish possession inbounds in order to make a catch with 2 feet or another body part. I've seen plays like this in the past and it's been ruled the same way every single time.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Austintacious (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:40pm

I think it'd be pretty funny if we started seeing receivers do the "pogo stick" stepping on their own foot intentionally when they're on the sidelines.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Dr. Mooch :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 9:50am

You're correct, the body part is not an extension of the ground and you have to get your foot down to the turf. OP makes the mistake of generalizing out of bounds rules to in bounds calls. Yes, other players' body parts do extend the out of bounds on to the field. If you touch someone who is out of bounds then you are too. But touching something that's in bounds doesn't make you down in bounds.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 9:15am

"his right foot was on the ground inbounds when his left foot came down on it. i feel that it shouldve counted according to the rules."

If a runningback falls down and lands on top of someone else, hes not down. The play is still live.

So, no, it shouldn't have counted. You need to contact the ground.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:44pm

Falcons start with a nice drive, but the inevitable red-zone troubles reappear. Really odd three calls from the 5.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 8:58pm

Falcons seem really disorganized, and Sam Baker earning 2 penalties in 3 plays isn't helping.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:01pm

Wilfork out with ankle injury. Or as the network says, "with an ankle."

Really not understanding what happened on that fair catch attempt by Edelman.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:01pm

Completely agree on the free catch hit. I get the rule, but it seems like a bad rule or a bad implementation of the rule.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:14pm

Fascinating drive. Rushed the entire way until the TD pass to Mulligan. (Who the heck is Mulligan?)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:14pm

Touchdown overturned. Two plays later, Touchdown Mulligan. Get it, Mulligan?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:19pm

Didn't realise Atlanta were so banged up tonight. Four rookies starting on defence? They sure got shoved around on that drive.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:22pm

Two are undrafted LBs (Bartu and Worrilow). They've looked good in limited action, but this is a tough matchup for them tonight.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 6:20am

Key and Peele has that bit with the over the top crazy football players' names. Joplo Bartu sets a new standard.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:32pm

It finally worked!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:48pm

Terrible, terrible failure to tackle by Steve Gregory on the TD there. You have all the time in the world to set up an angle of attack and you just fall down.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:54pm

There is no one on this Pat's defense that can attempt to cover Gonzalez. Gregory is good in run support, but that's it, and their linebackers can't cover anything.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:31pm

I honestly don't understand why they don't target Gonzalez every third play. He's a huge matchup problem for the Pats. I guess the only thing holding him back is his relative age.

Still, Gregory's non-tackle was incredible for its failure. You would think that if a guy was five yards away and busy catching the ball that you could at least get some pads on him.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Just Another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 9:49pm

Falcons finally complete a drive. Nice change

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:28pm

That looked like an ugly hit/injury to Dobson.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:31pm

Dobson lies on the ground, writhing in pain, and Brady storms right past him to berate an official for a missed holding call.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:45pm

That's not quite how I saw it. I doubt Brady was aware of the severity of the injury.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:56pm

That's just it, Brady is never aware of how his receivers are feeling. Remember when he yelled at them? OK I'll stop now.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Rhys :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 2:00am

After all these years with Belichick the Dark Side flows through Brady freely now.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:48pm

Didn't think Blount had breakaway speed.

Just saw that TD and I still think he doesn't have breakaway speed. How did he do that?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:54pm

Helps when he doesn't have to break stride running through the huge hole created by his linemen.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Austintacious (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 2:56am

Trufant could have probably have dived for his legs around the 20 yard line but it appears he wanted to catch up and attempt a strip. I suppose there is an argument for doing it either way.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:52pm

Some day a Boston area team is going to do something good on TV and they won't play that Dropkick Murphys song when cutting to commercial. Of course, the alternative is Dirty Water, so maybe I shouldn't complain.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 10:55pm

That's a ticky-tack call against Talib, who's had a great game to this point.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:04pm

So, with Thompkins the higher the degree of difficulty, the more likely he is to catch it.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:07pm

OK, Brady and Thompkins are getting on the same page a bit more tonight.

Very nice TD pass. Great arc on that thing.

Easily the best team effort by the Pats so far this season. And mostly without Wilfork out there.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:23pm

"The replay system is not working. The ruling on the field stands. New England is not charged a timeout."

Um, WHAT?

I understand this isn't a crucial situation, but this really isn't a good way for this particular rule to be adjudicated.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:33pm

Thanks, Zach Sudfeld, for making a tense game out of what should have been an easy win.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:38pm

That was a perfect second onside kick by Matt Bryant, just a shame he was the only guy there to make a play on the ball.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:46pm

The second botched snap this season in short yardage? Really??

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 9:05am

Yeah, for all the talk about the WRs, this sort of sloppy shit seems to be happening an awful lot.

Frankly, I'm a lot more worried about Brady's yips this year (and the oline looking screwy) than I am about the rookie WRs.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 09/29/2013 - 11:51pm

Great game for Talib. And in the course of just a few plays we see what a difference it makes to have Talib as the #1 CB as opposed to McCourty.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 12:33am

Why don't more teams try to jam recievers the way New England was jamming Tony Gonzalez at the end? If you're going to double team a guy, that's how you do it right!

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Austintacious (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 2:51am

Because it left the right corner of the field completely wide open...but unfortunately for Atlanta, a gimpy Roddy White couldn't beat Aqib Talib.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 12:51am

Whatever happened to FireOmarTomlin, anyway?

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 7:39am

Next time someone talks about Matt Ryans 4th quarter heorics, this stretch should be mentioned: The last five games Ryan has had a first down inside the 20 needing a TD to win or tie and has come up empty every time. Thats 12 "goalline" plays with the game on the line and no TDs.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 8:15am

I have a feeling Scott Kaczmar will lead the Clutch Encounters column with this very subject.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 8:31am

Seeing reports that Vince Wilfork tore his achilles last night. If accurate, that's a huge blow for the Patriots (though obviously, an even bigger blow for Wilfork himself).

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 9:10am

Thats a big blow to the Patriots, but at the same time, Wilfork hasn't looked very good this season, so I have a feeling hes been playing with an injury already.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Go pats (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 10:46am

Be that as it may, still hard to replace him.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Go pats (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 10:48am

By the way, i guess heads are going to roll in Browns organization as someone did not send Bryan Hoyer the "We are tanking the Season" memo.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 9:30pm

Thanks for keeping Mallett instead of him. ;)

Hard to believe he was not able to beat out Charlie Batch last year on the Steelers, or that he was undrafted (for that matter, that he was ever behind Weeden and Campbell earlier this season.)

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 10:33pm

I want to believe the Dolphins are better, but they're really not playing well tonight. Just way too many mistakes: turnovers killing drives and an inability to contain the Saints on 3rd-and-long. Not ready for prime time, it seems.

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by Tim F. (not verified) :: Mon, 09/30/2013 - 11:13pm

If I have to listen to Gruden say Tan E. Hill one more time, I'm going to kill myself. He just said, "Tannehill," so I hope the director said, "You sound like a complete jackass douchebag, it's Tannehill. You're sole responsibility is to pronounce the players's names correctly... or at least most of them. Definitely Tannehill, Chuck E."

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Re: Week 4 Open Discussion Thread
by georgebowles (not verified) :: Tue, 10/01/2013 - 12:20pm

I was expecting at least a good game between the bears and lions. is the Bears defense going to be able to handle a full season? and Cutler looked more like the chased Cutler we've been accustomed to. are the Lions actually really good? is that the explanation?