Talk amongst yourselves
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29 Sep 2013
Feel free to discuss some of your favorite Week 4 storylines here, starting with who replaced the San Francisco offensive line with styrofoam for the last three weeks.
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 29 Sep 2013
175 replies , Last at
01 Oct 2013, 12:20pm by
Oh no. I just walked in the room and it's Jeff Triplette. Expect weirdness to commence soon.
Speaking of Jeff Triplette...I think this has been covered here before, but does anyone know where there are ongoing numbers available on officials and number (and types) of penalties called by their crew? Thanks for any guidance!
I second this question, I'd love to see that. Though maybe googling it myself will work :)
Rams second drive ends up with a field goal. But with a better QB that 3rd down would have been an easy TD.
Kaep had Miller wide open for 15 yards gain instead hessitates and sacked for 8 yards loss. Drive ends with a terribly executed screen pass. Rams are trying to give 49ers points by stupid penalties. 49ers haven't taken advantage of it yet. Seems like a game of offensively challenged teams so far.
Thursday Night Football at its dubious best.
Illegal formation on a punt?
It's a shame that DVOA cannot punish Bradford for "pass that should have been intercepted but turned into a long completion."
Bradford throws the ball directly to Whitner. Instead of interception he tips the ball to the WR. Are all Thursday games this sloppy?
Some are worse.
They are putting a clinic on how not to play QB today.
For somebody who can't get open, Boldin certainly is getting open tonight.
The Rams pass defense is not good at all. Looking at SF offensive DVOA splits head-to-head against Rams defensive splits, Boldin and Davis are huge mismatches in the numbers. Davis isn't at full strength, of course, so in theory that one's less of a mismatch. Boldin's so far doing what the numbers suggested he might.
Boldin is a starting-caliber NFL receiver, so he gets open from time to time.
"Rams are the worst in the NFL at 3rd and 1."
So Bradford lobs a floater to a well-covered receiver. Defender tips it and it's intercepted.
A running game that could consistently pick up 1 yard would be nice. Lacking that, the Rams need a QB who knows how to throw a pass to pick up 3rd and short. That pass was an injured duck.
The way Bradford has been playing tonight, he deserves at least 1 first half pick.
And we see how a short-yardage rushing game can be so important. The Rams, who have no confidence in their running game, instead lob a terrible pass on 3rd and 1, which the 49ers graciously intercept. The 49ers blast away on 4th and short, find a hole and Frank Gore gallops for a TD.
Yay! 49ers utilize obscure rule to attempt a free kick after a fair catch.
It would have been cool had he made it. Last time I saw one I was a kid and the Bears beat the Packers circa 1970. I hadn't realized the last successful one the mid-70's.
Bradford has never met a 3 yard pass he didn't like. He is like Jason Campbell 2.0. STL should be looking for a QB in the Draft
At least the Rams should have several QBs to pick from. And the draft picks to take advantage of them.
I guess Jaguars fans aren't going to have to listen to anyone talk shit about their team for a week. Outside of the rare fair catch kick this game has been hard to watch.
Thoughts from a Colts fan: Okay, if the Niners are more or less for real, the Colts will get some nice opponent adjustments.
Is the Colts rush game really that good (looking at how SF is bottling up STL runners)? Or is STL that weak?
Is Vernon Davis really THAT important to the Niners' success? Wrap him in bubble wrap six days a week and declare him mayor for life.
Using the additive property of NFL scores, I predict the Colts will beat the Rams by a score of (so far) 55-10.
EDIT: Check that--the Colts/Rams score will be 55-18.
Unless the transitive property of NFL scores results in the average score of the two games being 27.5 to 9.... naah, I like additive.
I don't think Davis is specifically that important. But I do think they need at least one more pass option besides Boldin. Once Davis is healthy and Crabtree is back, the SF offense should be much more effective. (Caveat: Packers fan) They do look effective enough tonight.
They missed Davis' run blocking too, he's their best blocking TE.
Ouch. That was one nasty facemask.
Is it Bradford worst QB in NFL? I don't watch him often, probably 12-15 times so far. The best game he played in those games he was average. In most of those games he played terribly. Maybe I saw his worst games, but never seen him do anything special.
I don't think he's the worst. But he's probably not a QB you want as a starter.
Yep. Watching Sam Bradford in "action" makes you wonder why the Rams just didn't use the #2 pick of the 2012 draft on Griffin instead of trading it away.
Damn. I hate to see anyone injured anytime. But especially once the outcome is pretty much determined.
I said it then and I will say it again, the Rams are idiots for trading the #2 pick to washington. They are stuck with Bradford who sucks when they could have had RGIII. Hope all those first round picks are working out for you. QB is the most important position. In a few years, if the Redskins are smart and build around RGIII, they will own that division while the Rams will forevevr be stuck in 3rd place.
A lot of talk this past offseason in the DC area about what the Redskins would have looked like without that trade. They might have had Russell Wilson and all the draft picks, too.
Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of real time football chat!
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There's a great sense of relief in knowing the Panthers will go a second straight week without losing a game.
"It's a beautiful day here in Jacksonville. The crowd is still filtering in..."
Houston has been moving the ball through the air against the Seahawks, but have nothing to show for it at the end of the 1st Quarter because of a tip drill interception. And they take the lead with a TD to Graham on the first play of the 2nd quarter when the TE blows the top off the Seattle secondary.
Ravens offense off to a horrible start for the 3rd straight game.
The Chiefs have been absolutely dominating the Giants. A blocked punt meant that they had nothing to show from their defensive domination, but then they went on a 98 yard drive to take the lead.
And then, in one play, the Giants show why they have the highest variance of any team in all of the cosmos.
Ravens strip sack Manuel, Cordy Glenn has an easy fumble recovery but acts like an uncoordinated big fat guy, Ravens recover. Ravens score, up 1 despite starting very slow.
Looks like the Colts are using Jacksonville to practice their passing game. No fear of the Jax offense if the Jags get a pick, and confident their running game can grind the clock in the second half.
Texans are shredding the Seahawks halfway through the 2nd quarter. A toss from Schaub to Foster in the flat gets them the 14-3 lead. But they're getting yardage consistently and in large chunks.
It should be interesting to see how well Seattle's O can play trying to come from behind.
Turned out it wasn't Seattle's O which mattered, but their D.
Jamaal Charles not distinguishing himself in the short passing game, first dropping a middle screen and now not looking on a swing pass that could have gone for a good gain on second-and-10.
Brian Cushing treats Marshawn Lynch like a tackling sled and forces a fumble which the Texans recover inside their 20. Houston in excellent position to expand their lead heading into the half.
Billy Cundiff reminding me why I did not draft him for my Loser League team--because I figured there was no way he'd keep his job.
Flacco throws a good pass to Ed Dickson over the middle, who pops the ball up in the air right to Jim Leonard for an INT. Dickson had a huge opportunity in his walk year once Pitta got injured, but I can't imagine he'll see many more passes thrown his way this year.
The Cundiff factor in play again! Once again, the Browns leave points on the field against a superior opponent, wasting a two-minute drill.
Ended up not mattering...what a disaster it would have been had Billy the Kid's two misses mattered.
Michael Bennett of the Seahawks gets his neck snapped back while the pocket was collapsing on Schaub. He needs to be taken off the field on a backboard, but was moving around under his own power before being carted off. The Bennett's father was in the stands for the game and he was escorted back into the clubhouse to be with his son. 10 seconds left in the half with the Texans in long field goal range.
FOX reports that Bennett has movement and the Seahawks are hopeful he'll be able to make the flight back. Was a scary-looking injury when it happened so am glad to hear that the player is going to be okay.
The Giants missed a chance to use their timeout with 19 seconds left and try for a touchdown before the half right after converting a fourth and two. They gain a few yards and try a field goal after all. Going for it on fourth was the right call, but I don't understand why only go for maybe a few more yards to barely improve the kick at all.
Ref in the Seahawks game:
"False start, offense... Most of the offensive line."
You are freakin' kidding me! I have to find that online!
Similar, from last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpHlL81A3ds
Last week, I heard a ref say: "False start. Everyone but the center."
At the start of the second half in Houston the Seahawks go 3 and out giving up a sack, a penalty, a short checkdown to Lynch and then Wilson barely avoiding a sack by scrambling for 1 yard on 3rd and 12ish.
JJ Watt stops Lynch on 3rd and 1 forcing the Seahawks to punt. When Watt's rookie deal is done he is going to be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.
Deservedly so. A little hard to admit this in my Colts jersey, but I love watching him play.
Tate gets the ball stripped giving the Seahawks the ball deep in Texans territory. THis might be the change they need to get back into the game because they've been getting shut down so far.
Seahawks go no where after recovering the Tate fumble. Texans force a 3 and out and the Seahawks settle for a FG.
Ravens gain 4 yards on 2nd and 10, commit an illegal formation penalty. Bills decline?! Ravens pick up the first down on 3rd and 6.
Wilson is successfully running for his life against the Texans defense, managing to avoid the sack and get nice yardage. Seahawks still down by 14 with 10 minutes left in the game.
Seahawks score to bring it within a TD after Wilson picks up a 4th and 1. 7:45 left in the game with Houston about the receive the kickoff. Texans need a time-consuming scoring drive to hold on and pull off the upset.
Very questionable overturn of a TD catch for the Bills. Bills settle for 3. Ravens benefitted from another close call on replay earlier in the game when a Tandon Doss fumble was ruled incomplete.
I thought that ball was being juggled.
Russel Wilson throws an INT to Joseph on 3rd down with the Seahawks in Texans territory. Houston now trying to grind out the clock on the ground.
And then Shaub gets picked by Sherman who runs it in for a TD, tying up the game.
Schaub throws the stupidest throw in the history of stupid throws and Richard Sherman takes it to end zone for a pick-6.
Seattle-Houston headed to OT.
The London game ends with a Big Ben fumble. I don't know what he was thinking, waving the ball around like that as he's getting sacked. Was it 4th down?
That HOU punt on 4th-and-4 from the SEA 43 with 0:30 left was terrible. ANS calculator (win probability):
FG Att: 0.40
That doesn't take into account that it's the Seahawks defense and the Seahawks offense, does it? I'd imagine that it would be considerably harder to convert a 4th down and 4 against Seattle than most other teams.
Game wasn't on in my area, but not only do his stats look the same as in Cleveland, against a bad run defense, but the other guy they handed it to outgained him with just three carries.
Any reason he's not as bad as he looks?
I wouldn't kick Richardson to the curb yet based on Donald Brown--he did what he does. A 50 yard run because he's fast, and his next 20 runs will be very mediocre, including a couple missed blocks and small nagging injuries.
But expectations are certainly high for Richardson. So he better get his act together. I assume he'll be in a lot more vs the Seahawks next week simply because Brown's blocking is suspect and the Hawks' D brings the heat.
It's not just the one run that outgained 19 Trent totes totaled, but his other two gained fifteen, which Trent would take five to gain on average.
Meanwhile, McGahee (wait, he's still alive?) comes off the street and puts up a Trent-like 3.1 ypc on 15 runs, but he does it with Brian Hoyer (not Luck) at QB and against a top notch Cincinnati defense. And Bradshaw had a much better day against the vaunted SF defense than Richardson could muster against the sad sack Jags.
Maybe Trent will get it figured out, but right now it looks--from the numbers--like he's just not capable of even moderately successful runs (6+) on a regular basis. And that now two teams have been suckered by a guy who has shown no reason for even being on an NFL roster, much less rating a first round pick.
Houston unable to score the TD on the first possession of OT. Then forces the Seahawks to punt on their subsequent possession. Ed Reed makes a huge stop of Russel Wilson running in-space on 3rd and long to stop him well short of the first down.
We really need a seminar on "Protecting 4th Quarter Leads." Bucs, Texans, and possibly Bills need to attend.
Somebody just compared Russell Wilson to a white guy. It was Doug Flutie, and the comparison is really good, actually.
They didn't say he was "gritty" though.
Houston's punt coverage fails at the worst time. Golden Tate fields a Lechler punt at the goal line and take it out to the 32. 6:15 left in OT as Wilson scrambles for a first down just short of midfield.
Kareem Jackson gets hit with a giant personal foul for unnecessary roughness when he body slams Doug Baldwin after his forward progress was stopped.
Last week we learned that the German suplex was a legal tackle, but now this week we learn that the side suplex is not. Defenders need to know their pro-wrestling moves!
(In all seriousness, if the tackle can most efficiently be described by reference to a pro-wrestling move, the flag is almost certainly justified.)
So, hitting the guy with a chair isn't a legal tackle, then?
Damn. I guess the NFL just wants us to let them catch TDs.
note to self: return all those cheap chairs to Ikea Monday.
I like to think that Hauschka making that FG is karma rewarding Carroll for at least trying to pick up the first down there rather than just settling for the long field goal try.
Ravens were going to lose the game. But what a lame penalty that denied the Ravens one last chance to see the ball. What was the foul? Manuel had not taken a knee and wasn't down when Suggs hit him. Refs can't just call unnecessary roughness if they don't think the hit was nice.
He did rip off Manuel's helmet, so I imagine that counts as a blow to the QB's head.
I didn't think he ripped it off at all. His helmet came off on the tackle, but that often happens. And the call wasn't roughing the passer.
It was a stupid call. EJ Manuel hadn't simply taken a knee. He was running a play. And he wasn't in the process of trying to pass the ball.
Much like the hit by David in week one that handed the Jets a win, I keep hoping one of them will force a fumble that's recovered by the defense, so we can see the "late hit" that forced a fumble during a live ball be called as a dead ball foul.
I'm curious to see how this plays out in the coming week. The Bills did the reverse Schiano douche play. Schiano was a douche trying to break up the kneel down with little chance against the Giants last year. The Bills were douches for doing a fake kneel down to take time off the clock. Its doubly silly since it puts their decent QB up for unnecessary hits. The refs only compounded the issue by rewarding said douchery with a highly questionable personal foul. There were probably 1% odds the Ravens tie or win in the 5 seconds they'd have had on the clock as well.
Woulda been kinda fun if Jim Harbaugh had taken over for his brother at the coaches shake, I suspect it would have been much less boringly cordial...
Apparently Boger said to Suggs that since Manuel's helmet came off, he had to take a look at it, and he had to err on the side of safety. Note that he did not say that Suggs committed an infraction of the rules and therefore deserved a penalty.
Again, I think to myself, "Houston CUT Trindon Holliday last year?" They decided that he was simply not good enough to play for their football team?
I think he had too many fumbles, but was kicking myself because the perpetually return-challenged Colts did not sign him.
As much as I appreciate that Jim Caldwell is not He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, he still is pretty average as an offensive coordinator. That said, this loss was more about Flacco's one "kill the team" outing per year, along with the injured RB situation, than anything long-term concerning.
Andy Reid already has as many wins coaching the Chiefs as Romeo Crennel had in his entire 19-game tenure as head coach.
The Broncos are being beat badly on defense. I'm not used to seeing the line get pushed around this much.
Anybody else unable to watch the Eagles-Broncos game on their local Fox affiliate? Ours has been a black screen for over half an hour (Madison, WI). I'm guessing it's just the local station, but man that pisses me off. I pay for Sunday Ticket but of course the game's blacked out there since it's supposedly airing on the local station.
Between this and the screw-up at the end of the 1st half of the Bears game the other week, I hate Fox.
wasn't just you We lost in twice in Albuquerque
In Colorado Springs was going in and out all day. Local station insists it's a problem with DirecTV.
Awesome, where do you usually go on Sundays? I usually go to the Old C downtown. Today I met the father of the Redskins recievers coach there!
He he, was that P. Manning mouthing "stupid motherf*cker" after Moreno committed a personal foul?
Who says Peyton Manning can't throw the deep ball anymore?? That pass to Decker was beautiful.
Oh man, Locker looks like he got injured in a weird and not good way.
Again: Broncos don't need b.s. DPI calls to help them score. Please don't give them any, officials.
I think Decker sold it by leaving his hand back and making it look held. Makes up for some of those questionable calls in the Giants game.
Anyhow, why can't most penalties be reviewed?
So, the Chargers get a TD to pull within 2. Why, then, do they take the PAT to close within 1? Isn't this the one case where it's pretty much indisputable that the correct decision is to go for 2?
Not with that much time left, because you don't yet know the end game. If they'd gone for it and missed, their subsequent field goal and touchdown would still have them in a one-possession game at this point.
That's really not a good enough reason.
I'm with you.
The net result per play is almost identical, although going for 2 is much higher variance. In a matchup of even teams, early in the game, the choice is statistically a wash.
Theoretically with two completely even teams, if the trailing team is presented with an opportunity to increase variance without sacrificing mean outcome, they should pick the high variance option every time.
Oh, the Irony!
I'm glad the Broncos have been sending four a bit more, if only because the Eagles were picking up the blitz anyway.
I think Cunjunction Aikman has mastered the art of circular breathing. Just endless, mind numbing bloviation.
Second block of the year for the Broncos.
Annnnd...Fox hands us us over to the DAL/SD game with 13:54 left in the fourth quarter in Denver. Halftime adjustments are, apparently, a thing.
They stayed on the Denver game in my market lol.
bills te scott chandler 30 yd rec was ruled incomplete incorrectly. while true that his left foot did not come down on the ground, it came down on his right foot which was on the ground inbounds. therefore it was down on something inbounds and shouldve been upheld upon review(call on the field of a catch was correct)
Not sure, is he counts as being inbounds if he hasn't got his second foot down?
Therefore his second foot coming down on his first foot might be coming down on something that is not considered inbounds (because the second foot has not touched the ground...).
Fortunately the Bill won anyway so we don't have to get philosophers involved as well as replay officials :)
his right foot was on the ground inbounds when his left foot came down on it. i feel that it shouldve counted according to the rules.
Yep, we got how you feel in the first comment, but the better question is, "Is that what the rules actually state?"
Considering a player is NOT down if he is laying down on top of another player, it seems that the rules do NOT consider body parts to be part of the ground. Therefore, stepping on your own foot would NOT be the same as stepping on the ground.
being down with regards to forward progress has no bearing on this. in the past nfl refs have ruled that touching something that is out of bounds(for example, a loose ball touching a helmet that is partially out of bounds) has been considered OOB. it would be inconsistent to not apply it the other way. thats why "i feel" that according to the "rules" it was a bad call.
the rules are not entirely clear on this, however, thats why the word feel is appropriate here, thanks.
No, I think the rules are clear. If both feet are down or another body part besides the hand touch down inbounds, then it's a catch. But other body parts (from either receiver or DB) are not considered an extension of the ground, i.e. you cannot be ruled to have established two feet in bounds by the transitive property. A receiver needs to establish possession inbounds in order to make a catch with 2 feet or another body part. I've seen plays like this in the past and it's been ruled the same way every single time.
I think it'd be pretty funny if we started seeing receivers do the "pogo stick" stepping on their own foot intentionally when they're on the sidelines.
You're correct, the body part is not an extension of the ground and you have to get your foot down to the turf. OP makes the mistake of generalizing out of bounds rules to in bounds calls. Yes, other players' body parts do extend the out of bounds on to the field. If you touch someone who is out of bounds then you are too. But touching something that's in bounds doesn't make you down in bounds.
"his right foot was on the ground inbounds when his left foot came down on it. i feel that it shouldve counted according to the rules."
If a runningback falls down and lands on top of someone else, hes not down. The play is still live.
So, no, it shouldn't have counted. You need to contact the ground.
Falcons start with a nice drive, but the inevitable red-zone troubles reappear. Really odd three calls from the 5.
Falcons seem really disorganized, and Sam Baker earning 2 penalties in 3 plays isn't helping.
Wilfork out with ankle injury. Or as the network says, "with an ankle."
Really not understanding what happened on that fair catch attempt by Edelman.
Completely agree on the free catch hit. I get the rule, but it seems like a bad rule or a bad implementation of the rule.
Fascinating drive. Rushed the entire way until the TD pass to Mulligan. (Who the heck is Mulligan?)
Touchdown overturned. Two plays later, Touchdown Mulligan. Get it, Mulligan?
Didn't realise Atlanta were so banged up tonight. Four rookies starting on defence? They sure got shoved around on that drive.
Two are undrafted LBs (Bartu and Worrilow). They've looked good in limited action, but this is a tough matchup for them tonight.
Key and Peele has that bit with the over the top crazy football players' names. Joplo Bartu sets a new standard.
It finally worked!
Terrible, terrible failure to tackle by Steve Gregory on the TD there. You have all the time in the world to set up an angle of attack and you just fall down.
There is no one on this Pat's defense that can attempt to cover Gonzalez. Gregory is good in run support, but that's it, and their linebackers can't cover anything.
I honestly don't understand why they don't target Gonzalez every third play. He's a huge matchup problem for the Pats. I guess the only thing holding him back is his relative age.
Still, Gregory's non-tackle was incredible for its failure. You would think that if a guy was five yards away and busy catching the ball that you could at least get some pads on him.
Falcons finally complete a drive. Nice change
That looked like an ugly hit/injury to Dobson.
Dobson lies on the ground, writhing in pain, and Brady storms right past him to berate an official for a missed holding call.
That's not quite how I saw it. I doubt Brady was aware of the severity of the injury.
That's just it, Brady is never aware of how his receivers are feeling. Remember when he yelled at them? OK I'll stop now.
After all these years with Belichick the Dark Side flows through Brady freely now.
Didn't think Blount had breakaway speed.
Just saw that TD and I still think he doesn't have breakaway speed. How did he do that?
Helps when he doesn't have to break stride running through the huge hole created by his linemen.
Trufant could have probably have dived for his legs around the 20 yard line but it appears he wanted to catch up and attempt a strip. I suppose there is an argument for doing it either way.
Some day a Boston area team is going to do something good on TV and they won't play that Dropkick Murphys song when cutting to commercial. Of course, the alternative is Dirty Water, so maybe I shouldn't complain.
That's a ticky-tack call against Talib, who's had a great game to this point.
So, with Thompkins the higher the degree of difficulty, the more likely he is to catch it.
OK, Brady and Thompkins are getting on the same page a bit more tonight.
Very nice TD pass. Great arc on that thing.
Easily the best team effort by the Pats so far this season. And mostly without Wilfork out there.
"The replay system is not working. The ruling on the field stands. New England is not charged a timeout."
I understand this isn't a crucial situation, but this really isn't a good way for this particular rule to be adjudicated.
Thanks, Zach Sudfeld, for making a tense game out of what should have been an easy win.
That was a perfect second onside kick by Matt Bryant, just a shame he was the only guy there to make a play on the ball.
The second botched snap this season in short yardage? Really??
Yeah, for all the talk about the WRs, this sort of sloppy shit seems to be happening an awful lot.
Frankly, I'm a lot more worried about Brady's yips this year (and the oline looking screwy) than I am about the rookie WRs.
Great game for Talib. And in the course of just a few plays we see what a difference it makes to have Talib as the #1 CB as opposed to McCourty.
Why don't more teams try to jam recievers the way New England was jamming Tony Gonzalez at the end? If you're going to double team a guy, that's how you do it right!
Because it left the right corner of the field completely wide open...but unfortunately for Atlanta, a gimpy Roddy White couldn't beat Aqib Talib.
Whatever happened to FireOmarTomlin, anyway?
Next time someone talks about Matt Ryans 4th quarter heorics, this stretch should be mentioned: The last five games Ryan has had a first down inside the 20 needing a TD to win or tie and has come up empty every time. Thats 12 "goalline" plays with the game on the line and no TDs.
I have a feeling Scott Kaczmar will lead the Clutch Encounters column with this very subject.
Seeing reports that Vince Wilfork tore his achilles last night. If accurate, that's a huge blow for the Patriots (though obviously, an even bigger blow for Wilfork himself).
Thats a big blow to the Patriots, but at the same time, Wilfork hasn't looked very good this season, so I have a feeling hes been playing with an injury already.
Be that as it may, still hard to replace him.
By the way, i guess heads are going to roll in Browns organization as someone did not send Bryan Hoyer the "We are tanking the Season" memo.
Thanks for keeping Mallett instead of him. ;)
Hard to believe he was not able to beat out Charlie Batch last year on the Steelers, or that he was undrafted (for that matter, that he was ever behind Weeden and Campbell earlier this season.)
I want to believe the Dolphins are better, but they're really not playing well tonight. Just way too many mistakes: turnovers killing drives and an inability to contain the Saints on 3rd-and-long. Not ready for prime time, it seems.
If I have to listen to Gruden say Tan E. Hill one more time, I'm going to kill myself. He just said, "Tannehill," so I hope the director said, "You sound like a complete jackass douchebag, it's Tannehill. You're sole responsibility is to pronounce the players's names correctly... or at least most of them. Definitely Tannehill, Chuck E."
I was expecting at least a good game between the bears and lions. is the Bears defense going to be able to handle a full season? and Cutler looked more like the chased Cutler we've been accustomed to. are the Lions actually really good? is that the explanation?
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