Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

06 Oct 2013

Week 5 Open Discussion Thread

Feel free to discuss why Edge Manuel doesn't believe in punctuation, as well as the rest of Week 5's slate, in this thread.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 06 Oct 2013

192 replies , Last at 20 Dec 2013, 2:00am by shankarjoshi

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 8:36pm

Red flags?... oh, Breast Cancer, pink flags. That drop by Gordan ended up being huge, given the quick turn around by Buffalo.

2
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 8:45pm

Man, Browns fans aren't very supportive of Weedon, are they?

8
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:01pm

We've always been a tough crowd...

3
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by OmicronPersei8 :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 8:54pm

Pink yard graphics too? Wow, the NFL is in Dire Straits

5
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 9:30pm

Money for Nothing?

4
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 9:02pm

Oh man, I look away and Hoyer is down? The Browns just lost any chance they had.

6
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:00pm

Or not...

Still want him starting as soon as he is ok. Weeden doing better than I'd have thought, but McGahee and Benjamin are carrying the load.

7
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:00pm

This Bills seem intent on self-destructing. Glad to see things are the same as the old regime.

9
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:21pm

The "one of the best run defenses in the league" just got caught with its pants down. Ouch.

9
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:21pm

The "one of the best run defenses in the league" just got caught with its pants down. Ouch.

11
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:27pm

...and Buffalo holds its collective breath...

12
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by whiskeydj :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:38pm

Both PIs in the end zone have looked pretty questionable to me. Then again, I have CLE DST on my fantasy team.

13
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 10:54pm

The first one maybe. The second was pretty clear - Chandler catches the ball for a RD if his arm isn't held.

Who would have guessed this game would be this interesting?

19
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 9:11am

The DB doesn't hold his arm if he isn't illegally warding.

20
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 9:50am

...Or maybe the DB doesn't grab his arm unless he's lost position, which he had.

We see this play all the time, and Chandler did a good job of showing the official he couldn't raise his arm. That will get called on the defender every time, regardless of who's at fault.

I would definitely like to see this play and the Searcy PI on the all-22, to see what really happened.

14
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DavidL :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 11:25pm

Weeden is doing what he needs to, but Tuel is just dire, and it's made that three-point lead insurmountable. Not surprising given their histories, but still, what a waste of a promising first half for Buffalo.

15
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Thu, 10/03/2013 - 11:32pm

I never thought I'd be wishing for Kevin Kolb...

16
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 12:08am

With Hoyer's injury potentially longer-term, odds are BOTH of these teams might get into the Freeman sweepstakes.

As bad as Freeman has looked, definitely better than either Tuel or Campbell right now.

17
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by bobrulz :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 5:39am

Jeff Tuel didn't really look that bad. There was that one pass that would've been an easy TD, at least 2 dropped passes, and a couple of decent long throws to go with the awful INT, but for an undrafted rookie who had no preparation time, it could've been worse.

If Manuel misses extended time, Freeman would definitely be worth a look, but Manuel's injury didn't look that bad. He was walking around on the sidelines wasn't he? I don't think Cleveland will get anything from Freeman. Weeden looked good this game and I still think he can be salvaged at least into an approximately average/above average starter, and Jason Campbell is a perfectly respectable backup. That said, Hoyer still may be better than both.

18
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 9:06am

Tuel could be OK - there were a couple of nicely-thrown balls that were dropped, but there were a couple of truly awful throws that had no business being made on an NFL field. Woods saved one INT, but couldn't break up the pick-six. Fortunately, I don't think Manuel's going to be out long-term, unless it's a lot worse than it looks.

Surprisingly, though I'm disappointed, I'm not disheartened. I dunno about Edge yet, but Buffalo's round 2 picks certainly look like they paid off - Woods made some 3rd-year level WR plays, and Alonso looks like the real deal. This isn't like the last few years' worth of Bills teams, where they looked awful and then someone would suddenly make a professional play. The D looked pretty good - I don't know that Mario's worth as much as they paid him, but he was definitely drawing all sorts of attention last night, which freed up Kyle Williams to do a lot. Lawson looked like free agent money well spent - the team has decent linebackers for the first time in five years. Hughes even made a play, on Joe Thomas, no less. It was nice to see bad Aaron Williams turn up again, too, so that there's no thought of keeping him at corner when the other guys get healthy.

All said, Buffalo actually looked better than I expected - if Manuel doesn't get hurt, they probably win the game.

I will say this: The Browns have more talent than I thought, but it comes with sometimes inexplicable lapses, like Baltimore. Is this an AFC North thing? The Steelers and Bengals are both prone to it, too.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by James in Portland (not verified) :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 10:34am

It's fascinating to me that the Browns trade what's perceived to be their best offensive player and then promptly when three straight. My gut instinct is that this is a passing league, and the best way to get better, quickly, is to commit to throwing the ball. But I'd like to see Cleveland's breakdown of Cleveland's run-pass plays (and the kinds of pass plays) since the trade, before I'm sure.

22
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 12:54pm

A Browns fan I know says that the team is doomed to fail miserably. For years they've been trying to win and failed miserably. Now under new management they're trying to lose and failing miserably.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:04pm

If Gordon's really as good as he's looking at the moment, he's worth more than pretty much any running back. That's got to be a factor too.

95
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:00pm

Rumors continue that Gordon may also be traded, though.

Mostly because he's one purple drank/joint away from a multi-year suspension.

If they dump him like a hot potato and THEN he gets caught...

May not be able to get a mid-to-late first rounder on him simply because of supply and demand; the Colts were desperate for an RB and I can't think of similar desperation for a WR at this moment.

23
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Fri, 10/04/2013 - 11:06pm

Ridley (RB) officially ruled out for NE@CIN. (Also, the NYJ claimed Sudfield (TE) off waivers.)

27
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 12:20pm

Calvin Johnson is also out today. The Packers fan in me is thrilled, but I'm worried that the Lions will now play some weird, crazy stuff like Bush and Bell on the field simultaneously. The Packers will have no idea on what to do and probably completely forget to cover one or the other.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:04pm

Interesting that Sudfield was waived, as, in the preseason, you had your Matt Berry types insisting he'd be a quality fantasy pickup because, you know, NE. Was he not much good?

24
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by commissionerleaf :: Sat, 10/05/2013 - 12:52am

Brandon Weeden is not an NFL quarterback. He's also older than Alex Smith, who has been in the league since before Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl. The Browns should run, not walk, to the waiver claims forms for Freeman.

The Bucs may have done everything they could to tar Freeman's image before they fired him, but that's Greg Schiano protecting his image and chop blocking victory formation personnel. Greg Schiano is a d!ck.

Freeman may or may not be an above average NFL starter. But he's at least a convincing facsimile of an NFL starter, which is better than Cleveland has had since Bernie Kosar.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Sat, 10/05/2013 - 2:00am

The Browns don't appear to be interested. I can't actually see a good place for Freeman to land at this point - maybe Minnesota, but is he better than Cassell?

Jacksonville is out - they don't actually want to win.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 11:41am

Ravens are only dressing three wide receivers–Smith, Thompson and Doss. Yowsah! I guessing we'll see a lot of Ed Brickhands.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:24pm

I saw Juice Check in there targeted on a 3rd down down play. Might as well get some fresh bodies out there.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 12:28pm

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of real time football chat!
Instructions moved to a pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

29
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by QCIC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:19pm

Wow does Cincinatti's offense look inept after two drives. Dalton just threw his first pass on 3rd and 20 and he threw it about 2 yards. Great decision...

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:28pm

The Chevy Silverado commercial ("A man...A man and his truck...") with the cattle rancher searching all night for a lost baby calf seems sweet at first, until you realize that he's--you know--a cattle rancher. I'm rooting for the calf. Run, little guy!

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:57pm

Could be a family pet, or... just food for his velociraptor back home.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:04pm

Clarice Starling is running away with the calf in her arms.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by QCIC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:32pm

Dalton looks positively Ponderesque.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:32pm

Brandon Fields is putting on a punting clinic for the Dolphins. He's had to because the Dolphins offense has been abysmal.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:47pm

Ray Rice fumble gives Dolphins a FG. The O-line has been criticized in Baltimore, but Rice hasn't looked explosive all year.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 1:55pm

Announcers keep saying Rice is playing through a hip injury. He's got all the zip of a guy playing through a hip injury. Is this really desirable? Apparently Bernard Pierce hasn't looked any better.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 2:53pm

It's hard to know if he's been playing through a hip injury all season and aggravated it when he went down vs. Cleveland, or he just wasn't able to get loose the first couple games. But given how quickly RBs get worn out, it's a bit worrisome.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 2:23pm

Really wonder why NFL.com makes it so hard to follow a game in real time. They have this fancy graphic set up with arrows and arcs indicating yardage per play, but they don't bother to include down and distance information.
ESPN.com isn't better - they include all of the play by play information, but only after the drive is over. GRRR.

42
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:02pm

I noticed that also. Games on the web site are usually at least a few minutes behind the times shown on the NFL Game Center on the NFL Network.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:03pm

Dupe post.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by TomC :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 2:33pm

Very disappointed in the Bears coaching staff this week. Rob Ryan calls blitzes??! Who knew?

38
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 2:42pm

Shannon Sharpe is wearing a red check shirt and a bow tie that make him look like an old-fashioned soda jerk.

39
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 2:50pm

Flacco with a Russell Wilson-esque high quality slide on the scramble there.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 2:57pm

Jaguars season in a play. On fourth and goal, Jags kick a FG. Penalty on Rams. Jags accept penalty. Jags decide to go for a TD. Gabbert throws an INT.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:04pm

Yeah, that's definitely Jaguar-ish... well, except for the 'and goal' part. Maybe if that had been 'and 20' it would have been perfect :D

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:11pm

I understand Joeckel is now done for at least the game. With Monroe gone as well, is it possible we could see what an offense with DVOA below -100% looks like?

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:16pm

Joeckel's done for the year, fractured ankle. Something called Cameron Bradfield is the next man up. Jags only have two OTs on the roster, though there's another on the practice squad.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:06pm

I've usually been reluctant to pass judgment on young QBs because some guys just take longer than others ( along with numerous factors, including teammates, etc ), but, man, Gabbert really doesn't look like he should even be in the league.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:08pm

Also worth noting that, from what I've seen, Trent Richardson is no better in Indy than he was in Cleveland. Are there still people insisting that the Browns traded their 'best player'? It's nearly impossible to take those people seriously ( usual ESPN heads, etc ).

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:19pm

Well, Cameron's a rookie and Gordon's been oft-injured and not had a chance to really establish anything (the QB quality is relevant there as well), so "their best skill player" isn't a wholly unreasonable statement. "Best player," though, ignores a heck of a lot of actual quality football players on OL and defense.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:22pm

Yeah, that's fair if they were saying 'best skill player' ( although, despite his injuries, Gordon clearly is more dynamic than Richardson ), but I always just heard 'best player' which, you know, was ridiculous.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:50pm

Cameron is actually a third year player.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by usernaim250 :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:44pm

Well once again the Colts were not on in my locality, so I'm really hungry for a scouting-based evaluation. Does anyone have anthything to say on this? I know Seattle is tough but Foster did fine last week. Because other than that, there is certainly nothing in Richardson's stat lines with the Colts or Browns to indicate he deserves NFL carries, much less a first round pick.
--He's barely outrun Willis McGahee's ghost, who replaced him in Cleveland.
--The other RBs on the Colts (Bradshaw and Brown) have badly outpaced him.
He may be a tad better than McGahee (though Willis will perhaps round into shape as the season progresses, just as TR might get better in the Colts offense than he is right now). But there are undoubtedly young, unheralded street FA backs who are better than McGahee right now.

Of course, why should the Colts worry? They just beat SF and Sea.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:53pm

Main reason to worry is no 1st-rounder to continue building their team (nor the 4th rounder going the same place.)

However, the whole "they'll be low-teen picks because even with an easy schedule, they won't improve much on last year's DVOA" thing isn't looking good right now.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Tino (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:00pm

I saw the game and Richardson didn't look good at all. I see zero elusiveness or vision. It's like he pre-determines what gap he's going to attack and just puts his head down and blindly goes there. He's supposed to be a power back but it seems like defenders have no problem squaring him up and taking him down. Donald Brown looked much better in his handful of carries.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:31pm

I saw the game and see Richardson just a bit differently. First, he did not have a great game. However, he did convert some nice runs in the second half. If you count 4 yards or more on first down, or a first down conversion, he was something like 7 of 12 in the second half. The real problem, it seems to me, is that they don't have a lot of variety in his run plays. Brown has run draws, etc, but Richardson is basically running off tackle (or was in the first half). In the second half they had more straight up the middle runs, and he did well with them.

On a connected point, I don't think he was worthy of a first round pick for the trade. However, if they had not gotten Richardson, who would be the team's running backs? Brown as the starter, and ?Williams? As the backup? I know it sounds crazy, but without Richardson, I don't think Indy wins that game today. For example, with about 4:30 to go, the Colts had 3rd and 5, but they wanted to burn clock as Seattle had no timeouts left. So they ran Richardson, and he bulled through for a first down and they burned the clock all the way to under the 2 minute warning. Donald Brown doesn't do that. We've seen him, and while he looks great getting 16 yards on 2nd and 20, he's a much better change of pace back than a feature back.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by usernaim250 :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:53pm

Well, off the street Cedric Benson and Tim Hightower are likely able to produce 3.1 ypc, and Hightower can catch. Beanie Wells, Michael Turner, Ryan Torain, Peyton Hillis all could probably produce what Richardson has so far.

I guarantee there are some practice squad backs who could outproduce Richardson (so far). Those are all available for free. With a few weeks before the trade deadline, it would likely be worth giving at least one or two a shot.

Then there is the possibility of trading a mid-to-late round pick for a lesser guy on someone's roster. How much for a rental of Ben Tate? Who lurks on strong running teams or teams that are looking for draft picks?

Interestingly, profootballfocus (whose analysis seems questionable but is at least worth noting) rates Richardson highly for elusiveness, which they measure by yards after contact and missed tackles. It's a problematic stat, though, because like the error in baseball, the "missed tackle" also registers getting close and potentially influencing the play, which could mean the back ran into the defense instead of picking the right hole or setting up blocks. If as described above Richardson just runs into the line and picks up three by pushing the pile, where a good back would actually get a few yards before contact, then his "elusiveness" is actually the opposite.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 7:24am

Oh, I don't doubt that they over paid for him. As a Colts fan, I am bummed by that (but have also seen 1st round picks go to Donald Brown and Tony Ugoh, so that's not a given either). I was reacting to the idea that Brown is a better back -- he's not. He's a different back, and one that has proven to be unreliable -- did you see his whiff picking up the blitz on the final play of the Colts game against Miami, the one that assured Luck of having no chance to complete a pass)?
I do think he's better than the FA/unemployed list you gave, but not first-round pick better. To give one example, Hillis has been awful since his one good year.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RedDawg (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:24pm

One question: at 10:32 left in 4th Pats at Bengals there is a guy at the Patriots sideline carrying a tablet PC (I guess it is a Surface).

I always thought any technology other than the headsets/handsets was prohibited on the sidelines? Has that changed (I know the league is sponsored by MSFT Surface)? The coaches are still looking at the photo printouts, so I guess it has not?

53
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:32pm

Gotta wonder why the Pats didn't sneak it on 1st and Goal from half a yard out.

54
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:37pm

Whats up with Belichek kicking on fourth and goal at the 2 down ten midway through the 4th quarter?

55
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:41pm

No confidence in his short-yardage game against Cincy's D, plus the fact it was a two-score game and that made it a one-score game?

56
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:43pm

Yeah I get the cons, but come on. Oh christ the Bengals fumbled. Kicking it is probably ok then.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:49pm

1:22 to play, somehow only down 7 after a score, and the Jags...kick off deep. They really are deliberately trying to lose games now, aren't they?

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:51pm

...Never mind, looks like ESPN's game clock counter is just broken.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:54pm

Proving that he didn't watch last week's highlights, and with a 7 point lead in the 4th quarter, Flacco throws a horrible duck that the Dolphins return for a pick 6 to tie the game.

Not an elite play there, Joe.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:59pm

He was hit. It was a terrible call. Up 7 and 3rd and 22 from your 5 run a draw and punt it.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:29pm

Seemed like a fail on McKinnie there, Dolphins brought 3 (or 4 maybe) and the O-line couldn't protect Flacco for a basic 5 step drop without a DE getting a piece on the ball on Flacco's wind-up. Good thing this will probably be the last Baltimore sees of McKinnie.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by dcaslin :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 10:27am

But but an elite quarterback would have turned his hand ethereal for that moment that the DE swatted it!

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by OmicronPersei8 :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:56pm

Chris Crocker KCW nominee if Pats complete drive

61
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 3:58pm

CIN defense pretending that they're playing in New England on this drive? Jumping offsides at home on fourth down is bad enough, but roughing the passer is ridiculous; you do not BREATHE on Brady in the fourth quarter if he does not have the ball in his hand!

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:00pm

Good point, but the Bradyarrhythmia factor was most important in the end.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:05pm

CBS goes to the MIA/BAL game (yay!) and I am promptly informed by Marv Albert that the "Colts" have sacked Tannehill five times in this game. Someone's a few decades out of date, there...

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:09pm

Has John Dutton gotten one of those five?

66
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Gorilla Graham (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:11pm

Big Daddy Lipscomb is killing the Fins.

86
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:48pm

Hard to believe the AFC North finished 3-0 against the AFC East this week.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:49pm

Joe Erdman? Little Ed Simonini? Mike Curtis? Maybe pre-Raiders glory Ted "The Mad Stork" Hendricks.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:26pm

Darius Butler with the game-clinching interception. Hate to nitpick, but on 4th down, you should knock the ball down instead of intercepting. 50 push-ups, Rookie!

69
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:34pm

Not if you care more about stats than the team!

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:51pm

At least he didn't stay in bounds and try to run it all...the...way...back and then fumble. But yeah, good point.
Was he thinking "Self, they have no time outs and 1:20 on the clock, plus we're up by six, so catching this doesn't hurt anybody" or was he just thinking ball ball ball ball gimme some ball?

70
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:35pm

An announcer made a good point at the end of the KC/TEN game, the pink flags the refs throw and the pink towels that players wear look very similar when lying on the turf. Can we just have normal yellow flags please? The pink ones are not making me any more aware of breast cancer.

74
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:53pm

Or they could alternate weeks, pink flags one week and pink towels the next, just to make it complicated like the NFL rule book is.

148
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by dbostedo :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:49pm

Don't some teams use yellow towels in other games? Or does every team normally use white?

153
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Aaron Brooks Go... :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 11:48pm

Frankly, I'm starting to root for breast cancer.

73
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:52pm

Between the easy TD drive from Dallas and this early turnover, I'm getting nervous.

76
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 4:59pm

And the second easy TD drive. Thus far all the breaks going to Dallas, from Romo's overall excellent QB play (incompletions only on a busted play and what was basically a drop), Ayres's injury, a 31-yard pass called back by holding, a successful conversion destroyed by the fumble, and that ridiculous third-down play where Romo converted to Witten. Denver can only hope for second-half adjustments.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:04pm

OTOH i like the Broncos in a shootout - even if they are now short a possesion.

77
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:02pm

Wow a blatant hold that sprung Thomas on that shovel pass TD.

80
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Nick2 (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:22pm

Ron Rivera goes for it on 4th and 1, again. LaFell drops it, but I like the call.
And interception by p. Peterson. Panthers have been moving the ball well, but a sack took them out of FG range and the int leave them with 3 points.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:29pm

I thought "a football move" was not part of any rule, and yet commentators keep talking about it. Am I just wrong?

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Bobman :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:52pm

You are just plain flat-out... right.

82
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:35pm

That facemask penalty was scary, given Mannings neck history.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:38pm

This is an example of how playing against the Broncos offense is just brutal. The first 13 minutes of the game go perfectly for the Cowboys, including a turnover from the Broncos, and the Cowboys are up 14. Yet, with 5 minutes left in the half, the Cowboys are down 4.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:45pm

Yeah. I mean I ROOT for the team, and I have that this isn't fair-feeling.

85
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:47pm

Yeah, my first thoughts when they went up 14-0 was, "Well, they just made Peyton have to break/maintain another week's points record."

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:52pm

Yup. And I think they should probably have LTSed there.

97
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by herewegobrowniesherewego (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:16pm

Wonder how the points and yards records are going to hold up on next week's "most lopsided line of all time."

98
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:18pm

I'll take the under and Jax to cover. Manning may only play one half.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:54pm

Yeesh what a playfake.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 5:54pm

A rushing TD for Peyton?! ... That seems rude somehow :p

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:24pm

The goalline TDs have been undefendable. The routes from Decker and Welker were perfect and Mannings keeper is hard to sniff out.

100
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:31pm

Ahh... I get it. The Broncos weren't satisfied with just the AFC Championship game last year, and of course losses are always the QB's fault, so they decided to replace the nearly perfect Peyton Manning with Robo-QB.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:37pm

Hah.

Actually the divisional round, but who cares.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:37pm

Now, why you would take the ball out of Robo-QB's hands on 3rd and 7 I don't really get.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:36pm

GO FOR IT FOX!!! Sigh.

104
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:50pm

uh oh.

105
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 6:51pm

I'm actually impressed the DB there could even see the ball to INT it.

106
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymoussssss (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:06pm

How is that not intentional grounding by Manning?

107
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:14pm

From a ref's point of view watching it live it's probably not so clear that he wasn't trying to hit one of those receivers about 10 yards further than where the ball landed and just mis-threw it or something.

110
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymoussssss (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:18pm

Maybe but none of the receivers were even turned around and were still running away from the ball. Looked to be at least 10 yards from anyone, which is far to be making that mistake.

112
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymoussssss (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:22pm

Also a ref would've had to not be watching to miss that Manning just threw it away b/c of pressure.

108
Re: Patriots/Bengals
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:15pm

Was that a record? What's the most penalties called on the home team when there were zero accepted penalties versus the road team? Are the Patriots that good that they can go a whole game without committing any penalties?

109
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:15pm

Jesus. Denver's defense isn't even acting as a speed bump at this point. If Dallas' line wasn't getting holding calls, this drive would've long been over at this point. And I thought the Viking D was bad...

111
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:21pm

Denver have had several injuries this game which aren't helping. But, yes, they are relying on Dallas mistakes at the moment really.

113
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:24pm

Broncos should onside kick. If they get it, free possession. If they don't get it, it will be harder for the Cowboys to have the last possession.

115
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:26pm

I'd agree with like 5 minutes left. Not two minutes though. One first down and you can run the whole clock.

Actually at 2:39 you may need two first downs. Still be tough to make that call though.

114
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymoussssss (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:25pm

A down is worth more than 10 yards there, bad decision accepting the penalty.

116
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by TimK :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:27pm

If you aren't going to stop them anyway, do you kick an onside kick after tying it up with about 2 minutes to go? (Not very likely if you are John Fox...)

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:30pm

Ho boy. Romo's thrown for 500 yards and 5 touchdowns . . . and still managed to enhance his "choker" rep.

118
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:30pm

Well, there you go. Both defenses have one play to be happy about (well, denver does have a few sacks).

119
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:32pm

Wow, a turnover. Now DEN has to not score too fast.

120
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by steveNC (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:34pm

Not sure why they are throwing passes to the sideline in this situation.

121
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:36pm

Tougher call, but again I think the Cowboys should probably have let Moreno in.

122
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:38pm

Did the sack knock Romo back under 500?

125
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:40pm

Sacks count against team passing yards, not the QB's.

126
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:41pm

Sacks don't count as individual passing yardage, only team passing yards. Hence why you have to use Adjusted Yards per Attempt to account for sack yardage.

123
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:39pm

Okay, what's the over/under on how many people call Tony Romo a "choker," "not clutch," and so on tomorrow?

127
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by John Courage :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:42pm

Too damn many, and none of them should have jobs in sports punditry if they do. That game was a hell of a lot of fun. Reminds me of the GB-Arizona playoff game from a few years ago.

128
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:44pm

With today's brand of idiots in the media, Romo could tell his entire offense to stay on the bench while he throws throw 20 td passes to himself -- he would still be called a "choker" if he throws a pick in the 4th.

162
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 10:13am

ESPN has Manning outperforming Romo yesterday by QBR.

Uh, no. He didn't. And I say this as a proud Romo hater.

132
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 8:30pm

I can't believe Romo let the Broncos score 51 points. What a choker.

136
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by tunesmith :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 8:42pm

Funny that it fits his reputation, though. It's like he's a really, really good Kyle Orton.

166
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Crunch (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 2:00pm

I think both sides are looking at it relatively free of context. I've seen the "Romo led the league in 4QC last year stat" bandied around a lot without any mention of the fact that only one of those comebacks was against a team with a winning record or that his team went 7-6 in one score games including the back to back losses to New Orleans and Washington at the end of the year.

You can argue over how much blame should go to Romo, how much to his team mates and how much is to Jason Garrett's lack of coaching. But it seems strange to me that a Quarterback whose stats are as good as Romo's is so average in late game situations.

So is the "Romo is a choker" stuff overblown? Yeah I think so. Would you like a player with the stats of an Elite quarterback to do better than average? I thinks so.

167
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Crunch (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 2:20pm

Just as a clarification, Romo played the game of his life last night and outperformed Peyton. I don't think that necesarily negates all concern with his late game performance.

182
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Anon (not verified) :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 12:03am

Points taken, but they're also irrelevant. No other quarterback who performed this week would've even helped to make this a game. We know quarterbacks don't win games by themselves; all they can do is put your team in the best possible position to win (the same can be said for any individual player in a team sport). Helping your offense score 48 points (Dallas got a below average game from the ground) is a superb offensive performance. You have to demand more from the rest of your team, especially from a defense that makes up almost half of the game.

Even if Romo is inherently unclutch, the whole game ultimately counts; not just a small subset such as the last 2:00 of the 4th. I'd rather have Tebow than Romo in the clutch. That team would also be blown out if he was starting for the Cowboys vs. the Broncos instead of Romo.

186
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Crunch (not verified) :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 11:14am

The whole game counts, but that includes the small sample at the end.

To be clear. Tony Romo played the game of his (and possibly of anyone's) career. He is not to blame for the loss.

But there is a legitimate concern about his decision making late in pressure games. Romo has a track record of playing like an elite quarterback, until he's in pressure situations against average or better teams when he starts to look very average.

Does that absolve the defense? Of course not. Is it entirely on Romo? Probably not. Jason Garrett isn't known for his good game management skills and the offensive line aspires to average.

But it does deserve more consideration than a glib dismissal as "irrelevant."

124
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Brendan Scolari :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:40pm

Not a tough call at all. Inexcusable to not let him in unless you're absolutely sure you've stopped him short.

131
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:56pm

That seems a lot easier to do in theory than in practice. You can't have all 11 fighting off blockers and streaming to the ball completely stop and reverse direction once the RB gets past the line of scrimmage.

157
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 6:03am

Yeah, realistically you have to make the decision before the play starts, which is what makes it tough.

129
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Shashi (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:48pm

The Broncos and Cowboys together punted just once in the entire game. The Cowboys also showed what it will take to defeat the Broncos - the ability to score lots of points, something that is doable by the Chargers (unless Rivers screws up) in the AFC and maybe the Saints and Packers in the NFC

130
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Hummingbird Cyborg :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 7:56pm

That's a silly thing to say. That's the way to win against any team.

Really, as a Broncos fan, that pass defense worries me, though.

I mean, I know that Chris Harris went down and that Champ Bailey and Von Miller will return, but the Broncos didn't look very good against the Eagles or even the Raiders so far. Tony Romo has been having an excellent year, but that performance was something else.

Also, that draw play on third and seven shocked me. It seemed unduly conservative.

I loved reading the piece on grantland about the Broncos defense which has been good against the run, but I noticed that it didn't touch on the secondary or pass defense at all which hasn't looked nearly as good as last year.

154
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 11:55pm

The Ravens showed what you need to do to defeat the Broncos last year: play them in the cold. The Chargers may be able to outscore them, and the Chiefs defense will give them problems, but it will come down to how effective Manning can be outside in January. If the Colts get homefield though, nobody but Denver would have a chance.

177
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 10:17pm

Well, other teams beat the Broncos too last year. The idea that they cold seriously hampered the Broncos is dubious at best. In reality they probably still win that game if Knowshon Moreno isn't injured.

184
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 3:08am

On the list of reasons why the Bronco lost that game, Moreno's injury comes in at about #15.

188
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 10:01pm

The Broncos would have won that game if Moore didn't mess up on the bomb that saved the Ravens. But my point is that Manning will probably not be putting up videogame numbers in January, mainly because he plays outdoors. The cold and also the wind doesn't hamper the Broncos as much as it hampers Hall of Fame quarterbacks in their late thirties.

133
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Hurt Bones :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 8:30pm

The Niners PA anouncer apparently has a pregame ritual mouthwash of sawdust.

134
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 8:34pm

Schaub starts this week exactly like he ended last week: pick six.

Pretty soon we'll be calling that the Schaub.

135
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by shoutingloudly :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 8:38pm

They were barely able to get in the obligatory graphic about him having done so for three straight games before he made it four, and he does it right after. We'd just barely switched it over from the Simpsons. D'oh!

143
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by John Courage :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:39pm

On a standardized test in Texas in the not-too-distant future,

David Carr:Sack::Matt Schaub:?

137
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:07pm

It seems that Kubiak's preferred play call of throwing 3rd down to the TE or slot receiver yards short of the first down has been snuffed out by other teams.

138
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:15pm

On 3rd and 10 at mid field the Texans call a time out, then come out and throw to the TE about 6 yards short of the first down. Wasting a TO to call that play is just... spectacular.

139
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:30pm

Schaub throws his 2nd INT for the game. Lucky for him it didn't get taken back for a TD. Instead the 49ers take the short field and run it in 5 plays later.

This game is making me deeply regret walking up at 2:15 to watch it.

141
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:38pm

With a 4th and 2 at the Texans 40 the Texans opt to go for it and get it. Nice aggressive play call.

142
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 9:38pm

I've seen quite a few questionable OPI calls today. New point of emphasis?

144
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:05pm

Ed Reed is out at the start of the 2nd half for Houston after going down hard while tackling late in the first half. Hopefully he can still provide his leaderness while getting treatment for his bum hip.

145
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:16pm

Watching the SF punt coverage unit is like a breath of fresh air from a Texans-fan perspective.

146
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:37pm

Don't watch Houston all that much, but wow, did that graphic paint the issue. Schaub is horrible with pressure.

147
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:42pm

T.J. Yates time?

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 10:54pm

Man, the Texans should just throw in the towel. Literally.

Except that the towel is pink and somebody would think a ref had thrown a flag.

I know the 49ers are good, but this is an unexpected drubbing. I expected more from the Texans than this.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 11:37pm

Well, at least Pryor is in this game. The Raiders might be in the game for a couple of quarters hopefully.

152
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/06/2013 - 11:40pm

Holy crap!! Not only the turn around on the quick TD for Oakland, but the ticker is saying that the Vikings just picked up Freeman!

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 1:34am

I can honestly say I had no idea that a blocked FG could result in a positive play for the O, barring a recovery and strip of the blockers. Guess that must be true of a blocked punt also...

Quick, someone ring up the Jaguars, we have a new offensive play for them to attempt regularly.

156
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 2:38am

Wow, that was a pretty terrible end of the game for Rivers and SD

158
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 6:07am

I don't know what's happened to Schaub, but he's essentially played one good half of football (the first against Seattle) since the Denver game last year. Some of the time his receivers and backs have bailed him out, so the numbers haven't always been terrible, but the play usually has. I don't think TJ Yates is any good or ever will be, but he's capable of avoiding turnovers, and with the Texans defense and running game that makes him a more realistic candidate to sneak the team into the playoffs at this point.

Regardless of who starts the remainder of this year, though, I sincerely hope the starting quarterback for 2014 is not currently on the roster.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:17am

I'm having a really hard time figuring out where the line between Kubiak and Schaub is on the Texans woes. I think Schaub has lost enolugh zip that he can't make the throws he used to be able to make (I think 6 of his 8 INTs this year have been on short throws towards the sidelines). He just doesn't have enough arm any more to get them into that tight window. This problem is exapserated by the play-calling not taking this degredation into account and requiring him to attempt throws he cannot reasonably make anymore. On top of this the play-calling is fairly predictable. Defenses aren't biting as hard on the PA rollouts; two years ago Daniels or Dressen were 25 yards down field uncovered when the defense bit on the fake hand-off. This season an end or LB are staying home and pressuring Schaub when he rolls out, and the DBs aren't biting on every hand-off. The first problem is Schaub, but the second two are on Kubiak not being able, or willing, to adjust his plan to the realities of his QB.

What draftable QBs will there to be had around the low teens in this year's draft?

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 12:58pm

Maybe Manziel, if he declares. Maybe Tajh Boyd. It's generally reckoned to be an extremely strong QB class, including, probably somewhere around the second round, Derek Carr.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 1:02pm

Oh, and Schaub-wise . . . lost zip or not, some of those picks have been horrific decisions - ones that a guy with his experience should never make, and a guy with his lack of tools can't afford to. There have also been a disturbing number of flat misses. Last year, I thought maybe it was an injury thing and he'd return to past form this season. Now, I think he's just done.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 10:20pm

Calm down. Everyone was thinking the same thing about Philip Rivers last year. Schaub's only had a few bad games.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 4:47am

1. Rivers was a far better player at his peak than Schaub - there was further to rebound.

2. Rivers had experienced a very obvious and dramatic falling-off in the quality of his supporting talent. Schaub has a great set of targets, a strong running game, and a line that may not be as good as it was but is by no means the sort of trainwreck Rivers had to deal with.

3. Rivers had much better arm strength than Schaub to begin with, and hasn't been as injury-prone. Schaub fits the classic profile of a player who declines relatively young. Guys like Hasselbeck and Pennington played their last good season at age 32. Marc Bulger - maybe the most Schaub-like of all - played his at 29.

4. This isn't just a few games. Schaub's play has been awful since the Denver game last year. It just hasn't shown up too much in the stats, because his team-mates (Johnson in particular) have bailed him out.

It's not certain Schaub's toast, but I think it's very likely.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:43am

Double Post

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan K (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 8:49pm

Rule mavens - what would have happened if that punt block pass was dropped? Incomplete pass? I'm surprised that was legal, but seems like a really smart play.

169
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DA (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:00pm

So annoying watching coaches kick the FG on 4th and 1 when that close. I bet if a person asked Rex what % of the time his Offense could covert 4th and 1 I bet he would say at least 60%-75%, yet kicking the FG implies around a 40% belief if he understands math

170
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:13pm

Falcons best goal line play... Shovel pass to Snelling

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:15pm

Thank god Bosher can tackle.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:26pm

Give a rookie QB all day to pass and you can get burned.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:35pm

Atlanta defense makes Geno Smith look like Peyton Manning.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Just another Falcons Fan (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:55pm

Blaylock was embarrased on the last play of the half by Muhammad

175
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 9:59pm

Watching the Falcons in the red zone is an exercise in stunned amazement.

Seriously, the best idea they have is to plunge Jacquizz Rodgers into the line? I can understand the idea that the line isn't very good or Harry Douglas is not really a very good receiver or that six guys will cover Tony Gonzalez on every red zone play. There's only so much you can do with the talent available. But why on earth don't they try something creative? Do the Falcons know that it's legal to run outside the tackles (I mean, Rodgers is not exactly a pile-pushing back...so maybe he shouldn't be running Michael Turner's dive plays every time they hand off to him?)? If Peyton Manning can bootleg, why not Matt Ryan? Perhaps they could try throwing the ball into the end zone in the general vicinity of a Falcons receiver?

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by CJS at NYC :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 10:14pm

Nice defensive play call by ATL on the sack. Hope it worth spending a TO one minute into the 3rd qtr.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by DA (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 11:02pm

Dumb that NYJ did not go for 2, who cares about being up 13

181
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by R Johnston (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 11:46pm

In a meritocracy that would be an on-the-spot firing offense. Fortunately for Rex Ryan, NFL coaching is not a meritocracy.

183
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by mehllageman56 (not verified) :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 1:36am

I only got to listen to the game on the radio, and then only off and on. As a Jets fan, I was absolutely horrified to hear the score was 27-21, knowing that they had decided to not go for two points after a touchdown at some point in the fourth quarter. That said, if this was a firing offense, then Atlanta would have been without a coach going into the NFC championship game last year, since Mike Smith did the same thing, in the same situation.

At the same time, firing coaches for a single gamesmanship mistake is a foolish way to run an organization. The best organizations in the NFL have been ones like the Steelers, who prize stability. You have to hope your employee will learn from his mistakes. Four years ago, Marvin Lewis would make mistakes like the one Ryan made tonight. It seems like he has learned from his mistakes, and now will go for it on fourth and goal in the correct situation. The Bengals are likely to make the playoffs for the fourth time in five seasons, which would have not happened if they had fired Lewis a couple of seasons ago, when many expected them too. The Jets probably need to hang onto Ryan, and hope his decision making at the end of games improves.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by R Johnston (not verified) :: Tue, 10/08/2013 - 12:30pm

Deliberately shooting your own foot off because it seemed like a good idea to you should be a firing offense, even if you only do it once. Besides, a coach who by a single act demonstrates an inability to count to two is making many more mistakes than just that single act.

189
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Wed, 10/09/2013 - 6:26pm

The man has a winning record in both the regular season and the post-season despite never having had even a competent quarterback. I'd call that pretty compelling evidence that his strengths outweigh his weaknesses. Is he perfect? No. Best head coach in the league? No. Better than average NFL head coach? Almost certainly.

190
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Wed, 10/09/2013 - 7:00pm

The lack of competent quarterbacking can be the head coach's fault. See: Ryan, Buddy

191
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Mr Shush :: Thu, 10/10/2013 - 2:40pm

Can be, but in this case I don't think it is. Smith seems to be doing just fine.

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Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by Cythammer (not verified) :: Mon, 10/07/2013 - 11:03pm

Kicking the XP at this point in the game is incomprehensible.

192
Re: Week 5 Open Discussion Thread
by shankarjoshi :: Fri, 12/20/2013 - 2:00am

I don't think http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-in-mira-road.html anybody would suggest http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-in-kharghar.html a kickoff return is that particularly likely.

80 http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-in-noida.html hail marys are also incredibly rare.

Personally, I http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-in-meerut.html that the odds are lower than 1% and I think that who throws the hail mary isn't all that relevant. That Jimmy Graham would have been in the endzone to try to catch the ball is more relevant, but http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-andheri-west-and-east.html way, I think http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-mumbai.html the chances are so low that it doesn't matter much which http://www.1at.in/packers-and-movers-panvel.html they made. It's certainly something that I wouldn't criticize them for.