Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

16 Oct 2011

Week 6 Game Discussion Thread

Here's our open thread for discussing all of the Week 6 NFL games.

Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 16 Oct 2011

52 replies , Last at 18 Oct 2011, 4:22am by R Johnston

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 12:39pm

First up for me today is only the Redskins/Eagles game, since both Dallas and Houston have late games. At least I have a fantasy rooting interest there, although I'd rather see 49ers/Lions or Bills/Giants.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by mathesond :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 2:02pm

Heh, I'm an Eagles fan living in Toronto. I get the Bills and Lions games, but not the Eagles.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Ten Drink Drunk :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 2:32pm

I live in Seattle and have both Bills/Giants and Lions/Niners. Aren't you jealous?!

Detroit looked good in the first quarter, but started giving up some plays in the second. Haven't be flipping to Bills/Giants much.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 12:52pm

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3
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:06pm

Oh joy. I get Joe Buck and Troy Aikman for the Packers/Rams game. The announcing errors have already started with Buck calling Marshall Newhouse (who is playing for the injured Clifton at LT) a rookie, though he's in his second year.

4
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:10pm

Lance Kendricks must be happy to be back in Wisconsin. He just had about 40 yards on a catch, most of which was YAC. Of course, it looks like the Rams are determined to kill their drive. They've already had a couple penalties.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:49pm

I was wrong. It's been Chris Myers and Tim Ryan. They still sucked.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:11pm

And Josh Brown misses a 47 yard FG because of a really strong crosswind.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Athelas :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:13pm

49ers must be glad to only give up 3 after that strip-sack!

7
49ers off to rough start
by RedZone :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:14pm

49ers defense forces a 3 and out on Detroit's opening possession.

On SF's first offensive play, Kyle Vanden Bosch strips the ball
from Alex Smith and recovers it. The 49ers then give Detroit
20 free yards on boneheaded penalties.

Fortunately the D manages to hold Detroit to a field goal.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:16pm

And the Rams are using the Broncos defensive scheme. Passes to Finley and Grant have had nobody within 5 yards of either one.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:30pm

Bradford throws a ball 30 yards downfield and right into Danario Alexander's hands in stride, who drops it.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:40pm

So, the Giants D has decided to take terrible angles twice, a nice move at the end of an 80 yard run for Jackson, & 2 long TDs for Buffalo. 14-7

11
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by milo :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:41pm

Bills think field position is overrated.

12
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 1:55pm

As do the Packers. Rodgers to Nelson for a 93 yard TD. Al Harris looks his age. He had some great years for the Pack, but he's a shadow of his old self.

14
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 2:25pm

The Giants just had a first and goal at the five yard line with 3:45 to go in the second quarter. There were about 7 seconds left on the play clock and the Giants appeared set. The Bills had a player running off the field who was still about 5-10 yards from making it to the sideline. He also had crossed the line of scrimmage as he ran to the sidelines. Eli called timeout.

Why didn't the Giants just snap the ball there and not burn the timeout? The Bills clearly had 12 men on the field, and the extra man also was offsides. Eli had to see him cross the line of scrimmage. Even if you don't think your line is set (I think it was), if you snap the ball the worst that you get is offsetting penalties and you still have your timeout. If your line is set, you get to accept a penalty to move the ball half the distance to the goal line.

I note that the Giants ended up scoring a TD, but that result doesn't affect the analysis. Maybe coaches and QBs just don't like to take a chance in that situation (i.e., they worry that the center will hesitate a second to snap the ball, by which time the 12th man makes it off the field).

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:29pm

Beck is in at QB for the Redskins. Odelay.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:32pm

And Loser is queued up.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:36pm

Rodgers actually throws an INT. It was Greg Jennings fault. He let a perfectly thrown ball bounce off his hands.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:38pm

Redskins just took a delay of game penalty when attempting a 51 yard field goal.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Alexander :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:54pm

Why did buffalo not use timeouts there?

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 3:54pm

Nate Burleson with a controversial TD that is not wiped out by the Calvin Johnson Rule. Will we now have a Nate Burleson Rule?

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by RedZone :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 4:33pm

The most bizarre thing about that was Mike Pereira saying before the decision
that it probably wouldn't be overturned due to The Process.
Then it's overturned, and Pereira says he is glad it was.
Was he just trying to avoid saying that he didn't agree with the decision?

27
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 4:52pm

I reckon that that was, and should have been, a TD because he had become a runner by the time he went down and if the same thing had happened on the normal field he would have been ruled down by contact as the ground cannot force a fumble after the runner has been pushed by a defender. That is one horrible sentence.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 6:13pm

If that play happened on the field, I actually think it would have been a fumble. From what could tell (I haven't seen the play in slo-mo), it looked like the first point of contact on the ground was the ball, not his knee or arm. If the ball touches first (even after contact) as the runner tries to brace himself/maintain his balance, then I think it would be a fumble. The play would would be similar to Matt Ryan's fumble in week 1 vs. the Bears (with the obvious distinction that Ryan wasn't touched first).

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Jonadan :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 6:33pm

Interestingly, I think it was basically exactly the same thing that happened with the CJ "non"-TD last year: catch, clear possession, but off-balance (or in CJ's case, falling from a jumping catch), and the WR tried to do something other than focus on maintaining possession for sure and all. In CJ's case, he was getting up and celebrating: for this one, he was trying not to fall over.

Whether this means the rule is dumb, the player(s) should be more careful, or just that the refs need to be consistent, or something else, I don't know.

---
"When you absolutely don't know what to do any more, then it's time to panic." - Johann van der Wiel

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 7:29pm

I thought he was shoved by a niner, which would mean that he would have been ruled down the instant the ball hit the ground.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 8:44pm

I don't think that's right. I agree that he was shoved by a Niner. But I think the ball hit the ground first (before any part of Burleson's body did) and came loose immediately. That wouldn't be "down by contact" because the ball touching the ground does not make the runner "down." At least that's how I have always understood the rule.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by perly :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 4:20pm

Something genuinely special happened at the end of PHI-WAS. Eagles lead 20-13, have the ball, 2nd & 3 at PHI 38, 2:26, McCoy runs for two. Spot on the field is short of the line to gain, clock is running and the Redskins are out of timeouts.

Eagles let the clock run down to the two minute warning and challenge the spot. Successful challenge means 1st & 10, PHI 36, 2:00 on the clock. Unsuccessful challenge means 3rd & inches, PHI 36, 2:00 on the clock.

Brian Billick, if he's Washington, would rather the challenge upheld. That the first down be awarded. Because, you see, if the Eagles have 3rd & inches, they probably get the first down and can kneel it out. But if they have 1st & 10, Washington has more chances to stop them.

This may be why Brian Billick is no longer a coach.

(the eagles did get the 1st, did kneel out the game, but my god does my brain hurt)

24
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 4:32pm

I was watching that but I was only half-paying attention because I was watching another game more closely. I heard Billick say what you said, but I didn't know the situation regarding the time left and the fact that Washington was out of timeouts. Billick seems to make nonsensical comments like this frequently. He made similarly idiotic comments during the Panthers-Bears game regarding the Panthers' non-use of timeouts toward the end of the first half.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Thok :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 4:49pm

Remember when it was "Hard to see how the 49ers aren't going to be 2-4 to start week 7."?

(Yes, I'm quoting somebody from the Week 3 DVOA ratings thread. No, I won't shame them by saying their name directly.)

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 4:57pm

That one rankled me too. I'm still buzzing off the game. Lots of the officials in the game, which was annoying and there were enough close calls to blow up ESPN's servers with dross.

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Schwartz-Harbaugh hissy fit
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 5:09pm

As Schwartz and Jim Harbaugh met on the field after the game, Harbaugh said something to him that really pissed Schwartz off, I'm pretty sure Harbaugh mentioned Schwartz shouting "learn the rules" after the niners were penalised for trying to challenge an unchallengable play. (Schwartz looked a little smug as he shouted it)

31
Re: Schwartz-Harbaugh hissy fit
by Karl Cuba :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 5:17pm

OK, seems it was Harbaugh actually being a bit disrespectful to Schwartz, though I can fully understand why he was so worked up, the end of the game was a little tense.

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Re: Schwartz-Harbaugh hissy fit
by MJK :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 10:16pm

Although I thought Harbaugh had a legitimate beef. Every TD is supposed to be reviewed this year, by rule, and it looked like the refs had absolutely no intention of reviewing it (or, if they did review it, it was the fastest review ever, which is unlikely given that it really was a close and contraversial call).

Throwing the challenge flag may have been his way of trying to stop the extra point snap and saying to the refs "Hey, aren't you going to do your jobs?" I guess he could have called timeout, but that would have hurt them even more (potentially) than a 15 yard unsportsmanlike on the kickoff (since most kickoffs are near touchbacks now anyway, penalty yardage on the receiving team applied to the kickoff is pretty meaningless, unless it's so much that it makes the onside attractive).

Granted, he's not allowed to challenge it, and I'm not sure he knew that, but I was absolutely shocked that the ref didn't go under the hood to look at it, and Harbaugh should have been, too.

30
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 5:17pm

For a touchdown, do you need to make it to the white line or past the white line? It looked to me like Welker crossed the beginning of the while line, but not the end.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 5:26pm

The ball only has to reach the white line. It does not have to cross completely.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by CoachDave :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 5:18pm

Penalty...touching the Brady.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 7:08pm

Cowboys lead the Patriots 16-13 with the ball on their own 28 and 3:36 left. Will Romo make a big mistake to blow this game?

Edit: The Cowboys obviously were afraid of this, resulting in the following sequence. Run (loss of 2), run (loss of 1), false start, and then draw play on 3rd and 18, leading to a punt.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 7:59pm

Call me crazy, but this felt like the best Pats win in a long time. Not a blowout, or an fluke INT fest. Great defense all game long. Brady and the offense kind of off all game long, moving the ball but some bad turnovers. That last 3 and out, flipping the field to a perfect 2 minute drill culminating in a TD with no time left, just great. Some thoughts:

- The D finally had that bend but don't break feel going for it, rather than the "bend and bend and bend and TD."
- Belichick seems to be bringing pressure a bit more the last few weeks.
- Brandon Spikes had a great game.
- The pass rush looks SO much better when Haynesworth is on the field. He really collapses the pocket.
- Kyle Arrington is actually pretty decent.
- Chung may be the best player in the secondary, not McCourty.
- I was way wrong about BJGE during the Maroney years. He keeps getting better and better.
- Ridley caught my eye in the preseason but I don't like how often he gets dropped for losses.
- Is this defense sneaky one of the better run Ds in the league? I don't fear the run whatsoever anymore.

39
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 8:33pm

You're crazy. The offense was really bad most of the game. They had two good drives negated by turnovers, and two good drives for points, but other than that, nothing. And the defense was more bailed out by Dallas penalties than playing great.
Edit: I'll give you the run defense, though, that is pretty good. I see Ridley as the Black Woodhead. He's faster than Woodhead and mayb doesn't have the same vision, but they both have that ability to break big plays, but unlike BJGE, they can't really move the pile and pick up a few yards when the O-Line gives them nothing.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 8:39pm

Yeah the offense was bad, I guess by "best" I don't mean cleanest or most dominating, but rather most satisfying and boding well for the success of the team in the post season.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by RedZone :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 9:51pm

Old Navy just ran an add that made me want to tear my eyeballs out.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Rikki (not verified) :: Mon, 10/17/2011 - 6:39am

Did Kang and Kodos finally agree to do one for them?

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 11:01pm

Well, Ponder can throw the slant.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by kbukie :: Sun, 10/16/2011 - 11:24pm

So, turns out when the Bears OL actually can block the opposing DL, good things happen for their offense.

Related: when the opposing QB is Donovan McNabb, the vulnerabilities in the secondary are easily hidden.

46
49ers 25-Lions 19
by andy (not verified) :: Mon, 10/17/2011 - 12:07am

As a 49ers fan who remembers watching Steve Young and Jerry Rice as a young kid - I have not screamed this loud over a regular season football game in years

48
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by QQ (not verified) :: Mon, 10/17/2011 - 8:49am

Wouldn't shock me to see GB's DVOA drop this Week despite their 3 TD win. It was a classic 2011 GB Victory:

1-Multiple Long TD Passes (30+ Yards)
2-Give up lots of successful plays/yardage to Opposing Offenses
3-Play Good Red Zone Defense
4-Throw a Meaningless 4th Quarter Interception

49
Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Moridin :: Mon, 10/17/2011 - 9:07pm

Maybe the Jets should let the special teams turn it over more often. As long as the refs allow Revis to PI/borderline contact and get away with it consistently, could be their most consistent scoring plays.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Anonymouscommentator (not verified) :: Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:58pm

Well make that two Jets TDs that should have come back on a penalty. Corrente and crew missed an obvious block in the back.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by R Johnston (not verified) :: Tue, 10/18/2011 - 4:22am

When the receiver stumbles over his own two feet and throws his shoulder into the chest of the defender that's not defensive pass interference.

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Re: Week 6 Game Discussion Thread
by Nathan :: Mon, 10/17/2011 - 9:34pm

1) Marshall is eating Revis' lunch, too bad he has stone hands.
2) Whoever's directing this TV game should be fired.

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