Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

21 Oct 2012

Week 7 Open Discussion Thread

Discuss all of Week 7's football games and wacky hijinks in this thread.

Posted by: Rivers McCown on 21 Oct 2012

251 replies , Last at 10 Dec 2012, 4:33am by tiewhesee

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Subjects
by Rich A (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 4:40pm

Maybe not really a big deal to most but I was wondering about something. Why don't people use the subject headings?

I think it'd make following certain games and topics easier. I guess I could just remember the number of the comment I just read but often I'll check the comments and then come back 30 min or so later and then have to scroll and reread quite a bit to get to comments I haven't yet read.

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I do...
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 6:43pm

from time to time. Depends on my mood.

But the trick I use is recent posts or my posts, then I use find -> match whole word for the last message number to find the tails of discussions, the gap number not found in a discussion becomes the new last message, and so on, until I'm done.

Has the bonus of working pretty well even when topics spill over into multiple pages.

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Too much effort
by Tomlin_Is_Infallible :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 6:46pm

for too little reward (the ease of navigation of the discussion)

--------------------------------------
Velvet Sky fan

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Re: Subjects
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:34pm

You should register to have a verified account. When you have a verfied account, every time you come back to a thread or refresh your screen, the new comments are shown in a different color from old comments, making it easy to find them.

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Re: Subjects
by PatsFan :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:37pm

Except that you're hosed if the thread gets more than one page long. Accessing either page counts as an access. If you go to either page, all comments are set to read, so when you go to the other page you have no idea what is new and what isn't :(.

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Re: Subjects
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:09pm

True that. I wish they had a way to fix this. Maybe they could have a function that allows you to mark all comments after a certain comment number as unread?

42
Registration
by Rich A (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:56pm

I registered about 4 years ago but when the Pats lost the SB in 07/08 I didn't read about football, toss a football around, or play madden for about 5 months. After that I forgot my user name and password, guess I could find it out somehow

2
Sea vs SF
by ticttocs (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 5:25pm

Keep your head on a swivel...

where are they? look look...

There.

LEGION OF BOOOOM!

Bt seriously, I'm looking forward to an old school, smash mouth, defensive battle tonight.

5
Sea vs SF
by ticttocs (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 8:08pm

Haven't seen that Cee-Lo open before. was disappointed. Expected something more from the usually entertaining Cee-Lo.

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Sea vs SF
by Khemy :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 8:47pm

How does the NFL feel about its commentator Mike Mayock continually referring on NFL network to the game as a 'street fight' or 'brawl'. He must have said them ten times already. I, personally, have never been involved in a safety focused street fight. Doesn't really seem to fit the "NFL is all about safety" narrative.

Khemy
602/2/1

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:14pm

Someone print out a certificate from the Andy Reid school of Clock Management and send it to Harbaugh. I'm filled with too much worrying.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:15pm

See Jennings?! That's how it's done.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:18pm

Blurgh, the niners continue to let the Defense dictate the play calling.

Smith continues to throw every pass too high whether it's short or long. I think he has managed to regress mid season, though it could be related to the kill-kill-kill stuff getting found out.

Why does the NFL network show the bare minimum of replays?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by QCIC (not verified) :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 10:54am

That is usually a pretty good idea when your offense isn't that great.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:44pm

The NFL's ad featuring Tom Brady and Ray Lewis touting the safety of the NFL just seems sad today.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:50pm

"Street fight"
DRINK!

14
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:52pm

Hmm. On those downfield replays NFL network just showed it sure looked like both Seattle DBs were committing holding/illegal contact beyond the 5 yards to me.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:57pm

THANK YOU!

At least someone else is seeing it, the seattle defense is playing like it's 1975.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:01pm

Plus what the he'll was that non call when Alex Smith was forced to try and spot his receiver through the ear hole of his helmet?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:02pm

It's gonna be a "let'em play" game. All we can ask is that they call it consistantly.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:04pm

But at the same time the refs have been very quick to get the flags out for the unsportsmanlike stuff after the play.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:08pm

Why does it have to be a 'let em play game'?

That's a load of rubbish, call the game right, if that means lots of flags then so be it.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:52pm

It doesn't have to be anything, but the last game I saw where I was totally satisfied with how it was officiated was in 2005. Make of that what you will.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:01pm

What I make of that is that you must have watched your first ever game in 2005 and then read the rules and have been disgusted ever since.

I tend to prefer physical games but some if that stuff was pretty blatant, if I'm correct illegal contact is still supposed to be enforced after five yards at the very least.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 9:57pm

"It behooves me why they won't throw the ball deep to Randy Moss." - Deion Sanders

I know, it's too easy.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:06pm

Smith is playing like crap, again. I used to defend him on the basis that his coaches were rubbish and he had terrible receivers and linemen but this year he seems to be getting worse by the game. Kaepernick please, even if it is a bitch to type.

The niners aren't helping themselves again, the running backs have nine carries for 55 yards but they've thrown it 15 times for 59 and those runner numbers include some of that read option stuff that hasn't worked well for a few weeks.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:10pm

I never thought I'd see the day Justin smith gets pancaked (even if it's on a double team)

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:11pm

Wow killer penalty on 4th down. I've never even heard of that penalty.

I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:22pm

I have seen that called a few times. I'm not sure of the exact rule, but the player it was called on (#83) was over the center. The question that I have is whether or not it's OK if you are not on the line of scrimmage. From rewinding my DVR, it looked like 83 was a yard or so behind the line of scrimmage. That may be what Harbaugh was trying to show the official on the photo. It's hard to know exactly where 83 was, though, because the camera was directly behind the punter.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:13pm

How about you show us a goddamn replay to determine whether San Francisco lined up over the center? Because Harbaugh seems convinced he has photographic evidence to the contrary, and I'd kinda like to be informed.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:15pm

Nfl network is the opposite of fox. Fox beats you over the head with excessive replays, but nfl network leaves it to the imagination.

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 12:39am

I have never watched a game of football with excessive replays. There is always something new to see until you get to like 5 replays of the same play (even then if I knew what to look for, I'm sure I could see more stuff).

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:24pm

As soon as that penalty was called, I only wanted to know one thing: "What kind of route was the gunner taking to get down the field?"

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:32pm

Seconded, it's really bugging me too.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:31pm

How do you spell relief? Hucklebuck sucker!

Daaa da da da da Daa da da da daa daaaaa

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:33pm

Wow, terrible play. So Pete Carroll's plan was for Braylon Edwards to outrun the 49ers secondary?

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:47pm

I hate the quick whistle that cancels a fumble.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:47pm

Harbaugh has to stop throwing the damn challenge flag before anyone has a chance to look at the review, second week in a row he's done that. Bye bye time out in a close game.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:53pm

Wasn't that a non-reviewable play? He's got his timeout in any case.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:56pm

The comment was typed in anger before I found that out. Beer, it's good for you!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by zenbitz :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:21pm

Every genius has a flaw... Harbaugh's is that he throws the challenge flag out of pure emotion.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:49pm

9ers are just too much better than the hawks on the line.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:52pm

Gore is running all over this defense!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:55pm

Second tripping call on Anthony Davis this year.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:55pm

Seeing the 49ers run over this Seahawk defense makes me wish the Pats had tried a little harder with the running game last week. They tend to give up if they don't have immediate success.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by ptp (not verified) :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 11:11am

It may not have helped much - Seattle's playing on 4 days rest. It's the same reason they hung a lot more yards on SF than most teams tend to - both D-Lines are probably gassed.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:56pm

Wow that's a conservative call. A TD woulda salted the game away.

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 10:58pm

And another bloody interception would have given the overgrown pigeons more of a chance. Smith has managed to be effective on the check down in the second half but you really, really don't want to put the game in his hands.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:04pm

An Int would have left Seattle in worse field position, still needing to score a TD. But I can understand not trusting smith against this secondary.

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:05pm

Do u go for it on fourth if you don't make it here?

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:09pm

I think they should go underneath to get 6-8 yards and not worry about getting it all at once. But yeah, they cannot punt now.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:06pm

Got it anyway. But Seattle has to realize they can't dink and dunk for a TD

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:07pm

Four down territory for the Seahawks here.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JoeyHarringtonsPiano :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:12pm

Wow, They punted. Asking a lot of your already tired defense.

-I'm not Billy Bad-Ass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:12pm

Second half completions for Russell Wilson = 0

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:12pm

2:05 sets up perfectly for a pass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Kurt :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:13pm

Obviously correct to punt there. They've got two timeouts, the two minute warning, and Alex Smith under center.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:14pm

Aaarrrghh! Too close!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by zenbitz :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:16pm

If I read advancednflstats right, that punt was a -0.12 WPA call, dropping the Seahawks chances from 13% to 1%. How low does your 4th and 12 conversion rate have to be to make this breakeven? 10%

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:16pm

Hmmm, when I spot the qb sweep before it happens then it might be time to come up with a new play.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by zenbitz :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:19pm

I guess they got it back with the stop though. Seems like if there ever was a time to go Brandon Jacobs or Kaepernick that would have been the time. I mean, they aren't going to pass.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:25pm

I agree, why have Jacobs if you're not going to use him there?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by zenbitz :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:19pm

Maybe worried about Kaepernick fumbles.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:22pm

How is that a low block? Refs are f-ing crocked. Had Seattle +7.5.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:25pm

So did Harbaugh??

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:22pm

Yes!!!!!!!!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:23pm

He wouldn't want a safety because of the free kick can be kicked onside.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anger...rising (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:23pm

Ty Webb grammar.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Karl Cuba :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:23pm

Was that a low block on Aldon Smith? Hmmm, I'm not complaining.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:23pm

Has Jim Harbaugh bet on the +7 here?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by zenbitz :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:23pm

Harbaugh might have just won you your bet!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:24pm

Mayock doesn't understand why the 49ers wouldn't want to take over the ball on downs from the 21 as opposed to let the Seahawks kick after a safety.

The Seahawks have no timeouts. If the 49ers get the ball, they take a knee and the game's over. If Seattle gets to kick off, they might try an onside kick, etc., etc. Very unlikely to be successful against a 9-point lead, but when possession of the ball gives you a guaranteed win, why not take it?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:25pm

I thought you weren't allowed to do an onside kick after a safety. Pretty sure that's a rule.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by zenbitz :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:27pm

It's a free kick. Pretty sure the ball is live.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:30pm

Did a quick search, it looks like you're right. Not sure where I got that info then.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:34pm

A quick look at the NFL rules suggest you're correct. The only thing they say about a free kick after a safety is that it cannot be used to score a FG (as can be done with a free kick after a fair catch). There's nothing about onside kicks mentioned.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:35pm

I have seen an onside free kick after a safety. Can't remember when, but I know I've seen it.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:24pm

No!!!!! Don't review it!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:24pm

And that's the first declined safety I've ever seen.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:26pm

And everybody who bet on the 49ers -8 is livid.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:27pm

That was an intense game.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:31pm

Why was Mayock talking about intentional grounding? That had nothing to do with the penalty that was called (personal foul/chop block).

Also, I really disagree with the decision not to take the safety. Those two points could be important in a tiebreaker. Yeah, I know that it's extremely rare that a tiebreaker comes down to point differential, but I remember when the Bears made the playoffs as a wildcard over the Redskins based on point differential. That was a long time ago (1979), and I don't think it's happened since, but you never know. I think the two points are worth the risk that the Seahawks could recover an onside free kick, go the length of the field, score, recover another onside kick, and score again, all with no timeouts and only 43 seconds left, and needing at least one of the scores to be a TD.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:38pm

The odds that 2 points determine a tiebreaker are exceptionally slim. You have to get to at least the 7th tiebreaker for points to matter.

The Seahawks are, bizarrely, 0-3 against the NFC West and 4-0 against everybody else. They're unlikely to win a tiebreaker against the 49ers.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:45pm

All true, but the points tiebreaker wouldn't have to just be SF vs. SEA. It could be SF vs. another NFC team (or teams).

When the Bears won the tiebreaker over the Redskins in 1979, the point differential was 3 points.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by ptp (not verified) :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 11:14am

So you basically have to go all the way to 1979 to find an example of the point differential making a difference? :)

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Kurt :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:40pm

The risk of injury factors into the decision at least as much as the risk of giving up nine points. And Seattle would only need to score once to make the decision a loser as it pertains to point differential.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:49pm

Yes, I agree that the injury factor on an onside free kick is worth considering. And the part about Seattle scoring is true, but still extremely unlikely. It's 100% of 2 points (if you so choose) vs. a very, very small percentage that Seattle scores 3 or more points.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:24pm

Is there any reason to think the injury risk is higher on an onside kick than any other play?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Noah of Arkadia :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:06pm

Higher than on a kneel down, yes. Even if the other team goes full steam on a kneel down, it's hard to imagine an injury taking place. An onside kick is safer than a regular kickoff -the most dangerous plays in football-, but with bodies flying all over the place, it's not that hard to imagine one taking place.

------
FO posters are a peacock. You got to let us fly!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Passing Through (not verified) :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:42pm

So I suppose you had a problem with Kaepernick sliding in front of the end zone at the end of the Jets game?

I think it's all about player safety. Why put your special teams (and maybe your defense in case of a successful onside kick) through more violence if not necessary?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Thu, 10/18/2012 - 11:59pm

I understand that player safety is a consideration. As for Kaepernick sliding, I'm not s 49ers fan and didn't see the game, so I don't know the facts.

Edit: As for player safety, what if the opponent was the Bucs? Aren't you just as likely to have someone injured in victory formation if Greg Schiano is the opposing coach?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Will Allen :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 1:16am

What the hell is Russell Wilson's DYAR going to look like in the 2nd half?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 11:53am

Obviously he was playing to maximize his DYBR.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 5:45am

I'm usually not much of a fan of BS like this, but I think I'd taken the two points to pad my D on the back for pitching a second half shutout.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Peregrine :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 7:08am

Seahawks fans, what's your take on Wilson v Flynn?

I can see that Wilson has some tools and he can make some plays, but there's a lack of consistency in his game, and I wonder if Flynn wouldn't provide it. Flynn doesn't have the Packer system or the Packer receivers, but he'd have a better OL and definitely a better running game to lean on. I suppose this is a Pete Carroll problem that I shouldn't worry about.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 9:47am

In the interests of fairness it should be said that Wilson was not helped last night by some poor play from his receivers. There were at least 4 balls that hit receivers square in the hands/chest and were dropped, and three or four other catchable balls where the receiver seemed to be outfought by the DB.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Aloysius Mephis... :: Fri, 10/19/2012 - 10:45am

I wouldn't call for Smith to get the hook, but that interception to Browner was such a bad decision. Had Browner not been there at least one and possibly two other Seattle players still had a better shot at the ball than Moss. Can I have 'Alex Smith, Game Manager' back please?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 11:48am

Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of football chat!
Instructions moved to pastebin due to overzealous spam filter: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Qjf3ZzvE

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 1:34pm

The Packers' offensive line is terrible. That's two negative runs out of two, and seven Rodgers dropbacks have produced two sacks (one was negated by penalty) and a hit. The left side is worse, but the right side has been bad too.

The Rams' pass rush looks very good though. The Packers have certainly played the toughest defensive lines of any schedule so far.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 1:36pm

Packers just pulled off an unusual on-side kick that the Rams were obviously not ready for. The Ram most likely to get the ball was injured on the play.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 2:01pm

Texans had 4th and about a foot at mid-field. They've been moving the ball pretty well, and their special teams has been... questionable. Of course Kubiak opts to punt.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 2:23pm

Zuerlein kicks another field goal for St Louis. McCarthy put undue faith in his defense and elected to punt on 4th-&-1 from about midfield. Steven Jackson promptly broke a few tackles and the Rams had some nice gains. At one point, Jackson and Richardson had a dozen rushes between them, and their worst carry — a 3-yard gain on 1st-&-10 — was equal to Alex Green's best carry. Green has six carries for seven yards and a 0% success rate.

Jermichael Finley has had a couple of gains in the two-minute drill but he's now an afterthought on the Packers' offense. In fact, the tight ends as a group are a weakness. None of them blocks well on the stretch runs McCarthy likes to call.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:01pm

Alex Green runs for a first down on 2nd and 10. To continue Ammek's comment, this is probably his first successful carry by FO stat standards.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by ammek :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:17pm

Green finished with 20 carries, of which three were successful: that 15-yard gain on 2nd-&-10, a 5-yard gain on first down, and a 3-yard pickup on 2nd-&-6. His best unsuccessful carries were a 5-yard run on 2nd-&-12 (which was actually a lateral on a pass play that had broken down) and a pair of 3-yard rushes on 1st-&-10.

Mostly it was his fault, too. He was jumpy behind the line, missed some openings, and didn't get yards after contact. He won't be the least valuable back in Quick Reads because he was effective as a receiver, but it's hard to imagine that James Starks would do worse (unless he still is fumble-prone).

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:18am

He was jumpy behind the line, but on 4 of his negative yardarge plays he was hit within 1 step of taking the hand off. I'm not sure even Barry Sanders would have had the agility to avoid taking those losses. He took some of those early, and that will make you jumpy, but he doesn't have good vision, which was a concern coming from a spread offense where he took a lot of shotgun snaps. However, I haven't seen Rodger's trust a running back in the passing game as much as he did Green. He was dumping off to him on broken plays and Green was doing OK or good stuff with those. He didn't do that with Grant or Starks much, and he was with Benson some, but it's encouraging to me. I liked the Green pick and I had hopes he could be a feature back, but I figured his floor was as a good 3rd down back. That's fine for a 3rd round pick on a pass first team. I don't think he can be a feature back (though McCarthy might still keep using him as one) but I do think he can turn into a good 3rd back and spot relief.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DisplacedPackerFan :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 5:13pm

Well thanks to the deal that got me ESPN the Mag (and hence Insider) for $5 a year, I was able to see the top and bottom performers in quick reads early, and I'm wrong. I forgot some of Greens fails were on 3rd downs so the negatives were bigger than I thought, and I will say he does show up, I'm not going to say where because as much as I don't like FO content behind pay walls I do understand it.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 2:33pm

Texans have batted about half a dozen balls at the line against Flacco. Two of them have resulted in interceptions. One by Joseph (a pick 6), one by Quin.

102
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 2:45pm

Bernard Pollard gets a personal foul for hitting the head of a defenseless receiver.

He never hit the receiver in the head.

104
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 2:58pm

Packers' Dezman Moses just did the same thing against the Rams on 3rd and long. Not sure if he went for the head, but it was a launch against a defenseless receiver. I'm not really fond of this call, but it's the rule and so is a good call.

106
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:04pm

I don't see how Pollard was flagged on that. He didn't leave his feet, didn't hit the head.

111
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:20pm

He clearly hit the head.

What isn't clear is whether he hit the head with his helmet. Unfortunately for him, it doesn't matter. You don't have to use your helmet for it to be a penalty.

112
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:23pm

He didn't hit him in the head. He hit him on the upper back and it made his head snap back. Pollard was on his feet running and Daniels dove for the ball in front of him.

118
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:40pm

Gonna have to disagree. There was pretty clear contact to the head.

I disagree with you. The referees disagree with you. The commentators disagree with you. The video disagrees with you.

Does somebody need to post screenshots from NFL Replay?

Also, the fact that Pollard didn't leave his feet is irrelevant, so stop repeating it.

124
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:02pm

I'm watching the replay. He doesn't hit him in the helmet. He hits him on the back of the shoulders. It was a bad call by the refs.

I'd love to see a screenshot of the hit to the head, since he never hit him in the head.

109
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:17pm

I'm not sure what you didn't see. It was pretty clear contact to the head.

103
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 2:57pm

This just in: John Skelton is awful. The best thing he has done is keep the same drive alive twice by drawing the Vikings offside on third and less than five. But that drive ended with nothing as Skelton was upended well short of the first down as ran wide on a rollout on fourth and one. On the previous drive, he threw an awful pass that was intercepted and returned for a TD by Harrison Smith.

107
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:14pm

Vincent Jackson goes for a 90-something-yard reception, but is tackled at the one by Mike Jenkins. After three straight stuffed HB dive to LaGerette Blount, the Bucs go for it on 4th down. The playcall: A naked PA bootleg, but with no recievers running a route. Easily shut down by the Saints as they shove him out of bounds for a loss of two. That play had no chance of working. At all. Rediculous.

108
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:17pm

Yeah, I was going to post something similar about that sequence. Typical Bucs, especially while wearing their Creamsicle uniforms.

110
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:19pm

I'm not sure I understand a whole lot of the NFL rules at this point.

Last week, Tom Brady gets called for Intentional Grounding on a ball where the clock is running out, and he throws it out of the back of the endzone. He's still in the pocket, and no one is there.

The play before Baltimore scores to make it 29-10, Barwin is uncovered, and gets a free rush at Flacco. He's still in the tackle box, and whips the ball through the goalposts. Nobody is anywhere near the path of the ball at any point. No call.

114
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:27pm

When a meme reaches an NFL celebration, you know it's run its course. Mike Tolbert closes the drapes on Gangnam Style.

116
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:30pm

And now Pierre Paul too. Sheesh.

I guess Cris Kluwe could pull it off a couple of weeks ago because of his general awesomeness (Even if you don't like his Rule 1 banned opinions, you have to admit: He's pretty awesome.)

115
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:28pm

The Vikings offense is pretty unimpressive. The Vikes are winning this game primarily because Skelton is terrible. Christian Steele isn't doing very well, either, but the Cardinals haven't been abile to capitalize on his mistakes. LaRod Stephens-Howling has been very good for the Cardinals, but no one else on their offense is doing anything.

160
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:22pm

Yeah Ponder is a liability. And other than Peterson and Harvin they don't have a lot of above average players on offense.

117
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:30pm

Baltimore scores on their second drive of the second half to close it to a 19 pint deficit. Ensuing possession Houston takes the ball 80 yards for a TD killing like 8 minutes.

119
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:41pm

The Ravens are flagged for OPI on a pass tipped at the line by the Texans. Harbaugh has to toss the challenge flag to have the refs check whether it was a tipped pass.

Never seen this before.

120
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:46pm

Down four with 6:something remaining facing 4th-and-1 from Colts 41 yardline and Pat Shurmur SENDS OUT THE PUNT TEAM!! Holy shit thats a bad decision. Breakeven for conversion is probably in the mid twenties. This makes me more angry than it should.

(Result: a shanked punt to the 20-yard line).

162
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:24pm

It should honestly be a fireable offense. It shows you don't understand one of your core job duties.

Even if its only 10% of his job (in game decision making) it shows he is terrible at it.

121
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 3:52pm

Four one-score games right now. Trailing team with possesion i all four.

123
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:01pm

Giants were undisciplined there. The ends didn't keep contain, which is a very bad thing to do with against RGIII. He took off and easily gained about 25 yards around right end. Two plays later is a 30 yard TD pass to Santana Moss. Redskins now lead 23-20 with 1:32 remaining.

Edit: The Giants respond with an incomplete pass, followed by a 77 yard TD pass to a wide open Victor Cruz. Terrible coverage by the Redskins.

122
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:01pm

@ NYG: OMG.

126
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:25pm

Unbelievable ending to Bucs-Saints. Even more unbelievabls is that neither John Lynch nor Dick Stockton knew the rule that a receiver cannot go out of bounds and then be the first person to touch the ball. That's illegal touching, not exactly an obscure rule. Lynch thought it was OK since he reestablished position in the field. Uh, no, that's not the rule, John. So the apparent TD catch (which would have tied the game if they kicked the extra point) was instead a penalty for illegal touching. Game over. Stockton agreed with Lynch at first. How hard is it for announcers (including a long-time former player) to know the rules?

131
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:29pm

I'm pretty sure that if a reciever is pushed over the sideline, gets both feet back in, is again a eligable reciever. Dunno if back of endzone is special in that regard.

138
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:34pm

That's what I thought, too, but apparently the difference was that Freeman left the pocket.

134
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:30pm

See below:
if all you had to do to play defense was push the receiver out of bounds, that would be a tactic used in every game.
Lynch and Stockton were correct.

145
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:38pm

See below, too (and above). QB was outside the pocket.

Also, Lynch and Stockton never mentioned the potentially illegal contact. Lynch seemed to think the rule was merely that you could reestablish position on the field and be eligible.

156
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:09pm

Agree that they didn't mention illegal contact.

Surprising that Lynch of all people wouldn't know this rule.

167
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:36pm

Agreed that Lynch should know this rule.

127
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:26pm

Uh-oh. Mike Williams was pushed out of the back of the endzone, comes back in and catches an apparent game winner. Illegal touching since he went out of bounds and was the first to touch the ball. Announcer claiming that Williams was eligble since he "re-established" his feet. Anybody know the rules here?

132
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:30pm

Everyone knows the rule except the announcers here. That is textbook illegal touching. And it wouldn't have been a game-winner, as they were down by 7. It would have tied the game with the extra point.

128
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:28pm

Saints win a game by pushing a receiver out of bounds.

Refs blow the call:

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 6 Ineligible receivers
"An eligible receiver who has been out of bounds prior to or during a pass, even if he has reestablished himself inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands.
Exception: If an eligible receiver is forced out of bounds by a foul by a defender, including illegal contact,
defensive holding, or defensive pass interference, he will become eligible to legally touch the pass (without
prior touching by another eligible receiver or defender) as soon as he re-establishes himself inbounds with
both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands. See Article 8, Note 3. "

Pushing receiver out of bounds should have been called illegal contact.

135
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:31pm

Thank you for that. Saints season getting CPR there.

139
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:34pm

Freeman was outside the tackle box. Doesn't that make the contact not illegal? Although it's not clear whether he was outside the tackle box when the contact occurred. The replays didn't show which happened first.

141
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:36pm

According to Mike Pereira, it's different since the QB left the pocket. I don't know that part of the rule, just passing along what I heard.

129
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by nat :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:28pm

Horrible ref's call at the end of the Tampa Bay game. The receiver is pushed out of the end zone (obvious illegal contact) comes back in to catch the TD, and is called for illegal touching.

The correct call was either illegal contact or DPI, depending on whether the ball was in the air. The just call would have been to award the TD.

130
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:28pm

Terrible throw by Brady. Lloyd is wide open, and the ball gets to him about 6 inches off the ground.

Llody should have probably caught it, but put it in the right place, and Lloyd is highstepping into the endzone.

136
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:32pm

Of course, the announcers think it was perfectly thrown, because Brady threw it.

133
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by nat :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:30pm

It seems illegal contact is legal when the QB is out of the pocket. Who knew?

137
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:32pm

Wait, what?! I thought RickD had cleared it all up, but now I'm back to being confused.

146
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:41pm

Yes, this is apparently the rule once the QB leaves the pocket:

"Note: Once the quarterback hands off or pitches the ball to a back, or if the quarterback leaves the pocket area, the restrictions (illegal chuck, illegal cut) on the defensive team relative to the offensive receivers will end, provided the ball is not in the air."

Under "Use of hands, arms, and body" in the digest of rules.

140
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by hughesm12 :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:36pm

so if the quarterback leaves the pocket, defenses should just push all the receivers out of bounds and the quarterback won't be able to throw

143
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:38pm

That sounds a whole lot easier than it actually is.

144
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:38pm

Yeah, why aren't defenders just mauling their recievers the moment the QB rolls out? Is it easier said than done, perhaps?

149
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by nat :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:44pm

Because holding is still a penalty?

147
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:43pm

Once the ball is in the air, that becomes PI.

148
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:44pm

Well, Lynch and Stockton certainly didn't. I have seen that rule applied many times, although I can't remember seeing it on the last play of the game.

The officials certainly knew the rule. Also, a clue that they were on top of it is that the official in the back had his hat off and the flag didn't come out until Williams caught the ball. That means he threw his hat the instant Williams went out of bounds. If it had been illegal contact, he would have also thrown the flag then. He didn't throw it until later.

154
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:48pm

"If it had been illegal contact, he would have also thrown the flag then."

That's a generous interpretation of the quality level of officiating. Another thought was "he missed the push but did see the receiver out of bounds."

155
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:54pm

I don't think that's what happened, but it is certainly possible. Are you saying that you know the contact came before Freeman was out of the pocket? Or are you just speculating?

158
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:13pm

I was speculating. The network didn't synch the feeds.

I was just taking issue with your assertion of the form "Obviously no foul occurred, since no flag was thrown." There's also ref error to take into account.

I have seen refs miss a lot of contact fouls this season.

168
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:45pm

Agreed that officials are not perfect and can and do miss calls. I don't think they missed this one, though.

While we never saw a replay that synched everything, I think Freeman was outside the pocket by the time the contact occurred. As for my comment about no flag being thrown, I think the official was on top of the play and saw the contact but knew that Freeman was outside the pocket. It would have been pretty hard to see the receiver go out of bounds but miss the contact that caused it, as the official was right on top of the play.

The point about no flag being thrown (while a hat was on the ground) was really that it should have been a clue to everyone (incuding Lynch and Stockton) regarding what the officials called and didn't call, not whether that was the correct call (or no call).

142
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:36pm

All of this Tebow at RB nonsense must stop. What in the world is he supposed to better than Shonn Greene?

153
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:46pm

Theoretically the defense has to respect the threat of a Tebow HB pass option?

150
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:44pm

In the Pats game, Sanchez came under center on third down, and then motioned wide. The shotgun snap went to Tebow, who ran for a first. I thought once a player goes under center, HE has to take the snap?

151
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:45pm

Gone.

152
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 4:46pm

McCourty runs back kickoff for TD. 65% of Boston-area sport bb participants still think he should be cut.

216
Re: Jets-Patriots
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:02pm

And then he fumbles a kickoff that results in a Jets score, justifying the fan sentiment.

157
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:09pm

You know that feeling you get when Jay Cutler drops back to pass that disaster is eminent? I get that feeling every time Jeff Triplette reaches for his mic.

169
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:50pm

I am +1'ing this as hard as I can.

159
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:15pm

Pats seem intent on going deep today. Three long passes so far in the vicinity of Lloyd.

That's probably a good idea to develop that pass. Brady's touch on long passes might improve if he tried it more often. The first of the three was catchable.

161
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:23pm

His touch might improve? Brady has been in this league over a dozen years and has never been as good a deep ball passer as his coaching staff seems to think he is. He isn't going to suddenly become a good long tosser. Burn that part of the playbook...

163
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:26pm

Sanchez really wants to throw a pick. Pats' defense isn't obliging.

164
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:29pm

...and with that throw (five yards short of a wide-open receiver), even the Pats couldn't miss the easy pick.

165
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:30pm

There we go.

I swear, if Brandon Spikes could catch, he'd have about 10 INTs a year. Seems like someone deflects a ball into his hands every game.

166
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:33pm

Sanchez almost looks as bad as Ponder. The INT was just a very poorly thrown ball, and the safety was on him as well.

220
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:11pm

That's really unfair to Ponder. Unlike Ponder, we know that Sanchez peaked as a QB 4 years ago.

170
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:52pm

Somehow Mayo was just called for holding while sitting on the bench.

171
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 5:55pm

Being on the Bench never stopped the Jets from commiting fouls...

172
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:02pm

It was probably Spikes. A "4" looks like a "1" from the side, if you don't look carefully...

173
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:07pm

Main reason why the Pats aren't further ahead of the Jets: Kerley can catch well and poorly thrown deep balls when he's open. Lloyd apparently can't.

Secondary reason: Pats coaching is pretty bad today. Even leaving the 4th and short punt at the Jets 42 yard line aside, they're calling plays offensively that just don't look like they have a chance of working. The Jets have answered their "chess moves" and they look out of further ideas.

Third, but by far smallest reason: Bad luck. Jets have recovered on of their two fumbles, and kicked the other one out the back of the end zone for a safety (question: Why is it a penalty for kicking the ball to take an intentional safety, if all you end up getting penalized with is...a safety?) At least two, maybe three catchable (depending on your definition of "catchable") INT's have bounced off of our just out of reach of Patriots hands. And Dan Connoly, the Pats starting right guard, is in and out (mostly out) with a random illness. (Mankins is already inactive due to injury).

Luckily for the Pats, they're facing Mark Sanchez.

176
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:23pm

Kicking a loose ball in play is always a penalty. And any penalty by the offense in the end zone is a safety.

The Jets look like they could run on the Pats. So, for some reason, when they get a 3rd and 1.9 (which Simms calls a "3rd and 1" as if it were identical to the previous "3rd and 1", which was really "3rd and 1 foot"), the Jets pass, even though every ruch on the drive got at least two yards.

Sometimes I think the Pats overscheme on offense.

179
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:44pm

Not just that, but the offense (Sanchez) provided the impetus to knock the ball out of the endzone, so it would be a safety even without a penalty. Same as if Sanchez had picked up that loose ball and walked out of the back of the endzone.

183
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Marko :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:06pm

"And any penalty by the offense in the end zone is a safety."

As we saw on Thursday night, in certain situations the defense can decline the penalty, in which case the penalty does not result in a aafety. Here, there was no choice needed; it was a safety even if the defense wanted for some reason to decline the penalty.

174
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by MJK :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:10pm

Incidentally, the announcers for the Jets-Pats game must play fantasy. They keep talking about how impressive Shonn Greene is today. While he's not terrible, he's averaging under 4 ypc, has a few receptions and a few yards, and his main contribution was scoring a TD from the 1/2 yard line. No offense, but I could probably score a TD from the half yard line about 50% of the time. It's really Kerley and the Jets defense that have done anything for them this game.

238
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by apbadogs :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 10:52am

No offense, but I could probably score a TD from the half yard line about 50% of the time.
***
I would take the under on this.

175
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:19pm

Boy that 3rd and one call by the Jets there was just mystifying, at least to me.

177
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:30pm

lol, no one wants this win in NE

178
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:43pm

Announcers are terrible. They're talking about how they don't think the Jets lineman got a hand on the Patriots defender, while on screen the guy's jersey is pulled about 2 feet off his body.

180
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 6:49pm

Terrible play calling/execution on 2nd and 3rd down. This is what fans are talking about when they say the Pats get too cute at times. After running successfully for half a drive, why are they suddenly throwing -1 yard passes?

181
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:00pm

Shonn Green clearly unconscious after hit by Spikes.

Curious to see if Ryan does the dumb thing and brings him back in later.

182
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by PatsFan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:05pm

5:44 left, NYJ just scores to make it a 3pt game.

Prediction: In typical, current Patriot fashion, NE goes 3-and-out or 6-and-out, and Jets win at the gun or at least force OT.

184
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:08pm

Looking forward to this playcalling.

185
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:10pm

Seems familiar.

Patriots offense with the ball and a small lead, 5 minutes left in the game. 3 and out?

187
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:13pm

Terrible series.
OPI penalty.
Bad throw that should have been a pick.
Short run (by itself not bad)
Bad overthrow on 3rd and long.

I'm really wondering what the first down play was supposed to be. Whatever it was supposed to be, the pass blocking was horrible.

186
I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:12pm

Hilarious to see the Pats fan booing Brady and co. On every level.

188
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:13pm

Why is it hilarious? The offense has been abysmal in close and late situations for about a year and a half. And Brady is clearly a large part of the problem.

190
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:16pm

The extent to which Pats fans have been spoiled?
Brady expressing his desire to see fans boo the home team (though not Pats fans)?

Granted, maybe it's not as funny to Pats fans.

193
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:18pm

Spoiled?

Because Pats fans are the only fans that boo when their team plays terribly?

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

196
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:20pm

I don't think you know what sour grapes are.

200
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:23pm

Its the sour grapes of someone bitching because their franchise has been terrible for years. With a bit of shaudenfreud mixed in.

239
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by apbadogs :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 10:54am

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

197
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:21pm

:D Oh my grapes are good. Don't worry about me!

221
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by Noah of Arkadia :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:13pm

Is this the place they're giving grapes away for free?

------
FO posters are a peacock. You got to let us fly!

223
Re: I guess Brady made one of those ironic monkey's paw wishes
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:19pm

As opposed to Eagles, NY (doesn't matter which team) and Bronco fans, who boo their teams even when they have winning records?

189
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:14pm

Seriously, how can 81 be that wide open?

This defense is truly awful.

191
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:17pm

They're not good, but its tough to play cornerback when you've been running backwards for the last 30 minutes.

This offense can't seem to get their shit together in the second half.

198
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:22pm

You're really blaming the offense for the fact that the defense just gave up a 94-yard TD drive?

I'm curious - are there any criteria under which the defense would be held responsible for its own failings?

242
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RC (not verified) :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:37am

Like I said, the defense isn't good.

The problem is the defense plays drastically worse following 3 and outs. Defense and offense are related in football, nothing is independent.

So yeah, the defense is a big part of the problem, but people who think that an offense going 3 and out most of the 2nd half doesn't hurt the defense is an idiot.

192
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:17pm

I often feel that people throw around the word "drop" much too frequent;y, but boy was that a costly drop. It was the archetype of a costly drop.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:18pm

LOL fumble on the KO return.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Anonymousse (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:19pm

I don't know whats wrong with this team. Its like the later in the game it gets, the more they look like they have no idea whats going on.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:23pm

Lots of teams do it, it is called "being average". The Patriots had about a decade of being excellent, and when you are excellent things go your way. Now they are just average, and things only go average. Sometimes they win late and close, sometimes they don't.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:27pm

Using McCourty as a returner is a new twist. He's not used to carrying the ball in traffic.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:39pm

Coming into the game McCourty had returned more kick-offs than anybody else on the team this year

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:03pm

This was the 8th kickoff return of his career.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by duh :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:05pm

Yes, but he's been their primary KO returner this year.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:09pm

Sorry, for me "the past seven games" constitutes a "new twist."

You really want to be argumentative about this?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:25pm

Comment 177 was prescient.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:39pm

Odd official (The one 5 yrds away didn't throw, but the one 20 yrds away did) throws a PI flag and then they don't show a replay?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Theo :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:45pm

Did anyone else notice that there are less replays of crushing blocks and other hard hits?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Joshua Northey (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:48pm

Yeah and I think that is a good thing.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 7:52pm

Credit to the Jets for wanting to lose more!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Gus (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:00pm

Oh man, what a terrible play by Sanchez to try and throw that ball at the end. If he eats it, at least they'd have two more chances to convert the first.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Noah of Arkadia :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:10pm

Wasn't it totally idiotic? Who thinks of throwing the ball in those circumstances: no receiver, no angle, no footing, nothing. Fumble, game over.

Brady made some pretty bad throws, too, but man. I only saw the last few minutes of the 4th and OT, but I thought that was the good Sanchez out there today. I guess there's no such thing.

------
FO posters are a peacock. You got to let us fly!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RC (not verified) :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:41am

To be fair, there were about 5 times during the game where Sanchez managed to throw the ball away while going down. If he wasn't doing that, there would have been a lot more sacks, and the game probably would have looked a bit different.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by justanothersteve :: Tue, 10/23/2012 - 1:32am

If being able to throw the ball away while being tackled was the most important skill for a QB, my 5'6" 200# 56 year old body could play in the NFL. Until Sanchez can throw the ball accurately, read defenses, and go through his progressions effectively, he won't even become an average NFL starter.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:07pm

One good thing about the Pats' win. Maybe people will shut up about how Brady "never performs in the clutch anymore," at least for a while.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Gri34 (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:29pm

Brady's a punk and he's finally getting his comeuppance. 9-7 this year and miss the playoffs. He's the best when up 30. Game gets close and his collar gets tight. Just look at the last two weeks. Not all his fault of course, when I and others say "Brady" we mean the entire offense.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 11:34pm

Who scored the last six points of the game?

231
Trick question?
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 11:40pm

A golem made of scrabble letters, liquor, and kicking tees?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 1:40am

Are you really responding to that obvious of a troll?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RC (not verified) :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:42am

Clutch to me would have been getting a first down when they had the ball with 5 minutes left.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by nat :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:17pm

Did anyone tell these two teams that "suck for Luck" was last year?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 8:32pm

You thankless bastards cannot be pleased. Everyone loves football follies, but two teams go out of their way to produce a whole game of them, taking it to overtime!, and it's 'complain complain complain.' You people don't deserve to watch this kind of football!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by nat :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:16pm

You people don't deserve to watch this kind of football!
Truer words have ne'er been spoken.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by glickmania :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:20pm

I LOL'ed.

Not a crisp game by any stretch but it was entertaining.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:10pm

Barron Batch dropped an easy TD on a flea-flicker from Antonio Brown. Roethlisberger picked off in the end zone two plays later. Going to be a long night.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by LionInAZ :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:33pm

Batch's drop was bad, but he's not used to getting those kind of throws. Wallace has much less excuse for his drops tonight.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:41pm

Not even the third* one?

*Yes, third.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 10:10pm

I'll cut him slack on the third. It was tipped at the last moment. But the other two left me shaking my head. Both times he was wide open with no traffic to deal with.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 9:50pm

Roethlisberger tries to call timeout immediately after a timeout, figures out he can't do that, rushes off a play and gets the conversion.

Sloppy, but given how many other mistakes they've made tonight, I'll take it.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Sun, 10/21/2012 - 11:29pm

Jonathan Dwyer is running really tough. On that last run for the first down, Peka had a clean shot at him in the hole and Dwyer just ran right through him.

232
Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul M (not verified) :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 12:10am

Still stunned over Ryan's (and Schottenheimer's) inability to go for the jugular on the first series of the 2nd half. Why is Tebow on this team if not to take the ball on two successive goal line plays when the defense must at least respect the possibility of a pass?? Instead we get Sanchez in a 50-50 (at best) 3rd and short pass followed by the obligatory Chicken SH*T field goal. Leaving Brady still ahead. Do these coaches not understand the odds in those situations near the other team's goal line??

More cosmic thought: The weakness of the AFC is stunning. Baltimore could very well be falling apart. New England has some serious flaws. Ditto an old Steeler team. It's basically the Texans if they stay healthy, and I maintain that on a neutral field they would be underdogs to NYG, GB, CHI and SF-- and probably no better than Pick 'em vs. the Falcons.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 12:28am

Before the Ravens lost Lewis and Webb, I thought either the Ravens or the Texans would make the Super Bowl. Now I'm hard-pressed to see who could beat the Texans in Houston (I mean, aside from a 2-3 team from the NFC!)

I would favor the Texans against the Falcons but agree with the rest of what you say. But let's not forget how much things can change in 3 months. The Broncos could put together a respectable run. Or the Pats could figure out what ails their defense. The Dolphins could surprise everybody!

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:28am

Nothing to do with Schottenheimer now. His train wreck's in St. Louis.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul M (not verified) :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 12:13am

One curiousity about the Steeler-Bengal game. On Wallace' catch, after the challenge was deemed unsuccessful, why didn't the clock start?? Didn't Lewis in effect get a timeout even as he lost one for losing the challenge? Wallace was inbounds. Isn't the rule to start up the clock again in that situation??

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by DRohan :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 1:13am

I wondered about that, too. But I guess since the team loses a timeout, then it makes sense that way?

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by NYMike :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 10:31am

Reading elsewhere, I heard a timeout was called, and then the challenge flag thrown. So the clock wouldn't start because of the TO.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by jonnyblazin :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 9:39pm

Anyone else sick of the horsecollar rule? The Dallas/Carolina game at the end swung on a huge miscall of the horsecollar, and it doesn't seem like the refs really enforce it correctly.

Anyways, were horsecollar tackles really that dangerous? I only remember Roy Williams breaking Terrell Owens leg once, but other than that I can't think of any examples of when it injured someone.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 9:51pm

Plenty of ways to tackle that don't involve hooking hand inside shoulder pad, so no it doesn't bother me at all.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by Insancipitory :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 10:11pm

Harrison's (iirc) horse collar tackle of Shaun Alexander broke a bone in his foot, which along with his new contract contributed to ending his career earlier than it otherwise might have.

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Re: Week 7 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 10/22/2012 - 11:38pm

Wondering what the record for red zone turnovers is.

251
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