Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

31 Oct 2010

Week 8 Open Discussion Thread

Talk about the Week 8 games here!

Posted by: Tom Gower on 31 Oct 2010

183 replies , Last at 04 Nov 2010, 11:46pm by MichaelPat

1
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 1:28pm

I feel bad for CBS this week. With the Jets and Patriots both on Fox this week, and the Colts and Steelers are playing night games, that leaves them with Miami/Cincinnati as the big game. At least they get a Kitna led Dallas against Jacksonville.

2
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by ParaPunk :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 1:34pm

Rex Ryan automatically wins the Colbert award this week.

4
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 1:50pm

Is there an optimal distance to attempt a fake punt? Seems like 4th and 18 would be a shade too long and give the defense too much time to react, but something like 4th and 4 would be short enough that the other team might see it coming.

I expect sample size issues would be a big factor here.

3
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Nino Meon (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 1:47pm

Is Ted Ginn the first player to play in London twice?

5
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:00pm

Okay, Dallas. Marion Barber on an outside sweep is probably not the best use of his talents. Isn't that play what you have Felix Jones for?

40
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Still Alive (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:54pm

Whenever I see comments like this I want to beat the poster over the head with the game theory stick.

You do realize that there are TWO units on the field right? The Off AND the Def! Perhaps the Def shades more to the outside and worries about contain more when Jones is on the field to the extent that the efficacy on outside runs for both of them are similar? What is the difference in the defense look between the two? Do you know? I doubt it.

NFL coaches do a ton of very dumb things, but I find almost all criticism of their play calling (even by FO and others I respect) completely ridiculous second guessing. I am sure there are improvements in their play calling to be made, but 99% of the time it is just ignorance masquerading as superiority. The Off is taking in consideration about 50 more factors than your brain dead "Felix Jones is faster" analysis is. I know as coaches we talk about this sort of thing at the 13 year old level, much less at the NFL level.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:04pm

Wait a minute . . . the game theory stick? Are you saying that (a) a game theory stick exists and (b) there is only one? Because that would be awesome.

150
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:27am

There are many counterfeits. One real deal.

6
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Yaguar :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:02pm

Chiefs passing: 2.9 yards per play on 9 plays
Chiefs carries by people other than Jamaal Charles: 3.9 yards per play on 10 plays
Jamaal Charles: 9.8 yards per play on 5 plays.

I'm getting really, really sick of this.

43
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Still Alive (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:59pm

I think it is pretty hard to argue with how they have been using the backs when they have been so successful all season.

151
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:28am

It's actually very easy: it's a bad process that's been ending in a positive outcome anyway. However, an ugly overtime win over Buffalo hardly qualifies as "successful."

7
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:14pm

Wow, amazingly lucky play for Cincinnati. Palmer throws a sure pick, but the ball bounces off the defenders hands. TO scoops it out of the air and runs it in for an easy TD.

9
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Semigruntled Eagles fan (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:24pm

And the defender bobbled the ball multiple times before knocking it upward as he fell down, with Owens doing nothing to attempt to break up the pass. If the defender had simply dropped the pass, it most likely falls incomplete. Huge break for Palmer.

8
Wembley
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:23pm

Game of the Year at Wembley...

10
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Semigruntled Eagles fan (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:38pm

A Detroit defensive back drops a near-certain pick six on a third down play with about a minute left in the first half, allowing the Redskins to kick a field goal. Then the Lions go three and out, give up a good punt return, and the Redskins get a second field goal to end the half, up 13-7.

153
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:34am

That would be former Bronco CB Alphonso Smith.

11
Jacksonville @ Dallas
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:42pm

Halftime in Dallas.

David Garrard's statline: 10/10 for 126 yards and 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions.
Maurice Jones-Drew: 10 rushes for 79 yards.

Of course, despite all that the Cowboys have outgained the Jaguars 227-199. Two Kitna picks haven't helped.

12
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:48pm

The 49'ers are terrified to let Troy Smith pass. 3rd and 6 is a running down for them at this point.

Ten pass attempts so far, nine of them checkdowns, dumpoffs and screens. The last one - a deep overthrown ball with Bailey in coverage.

21
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:08pm

Isn't Singletary terrified of the pass in general?

13
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:49pm

Tebow with a one-yard TD. A 70-ish yard Orton-to-Lloyd pass set it up.

14
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:57pm

Lloyd has 7 (seven !) 40+ yard catches so far. He's averaging over 20 yards a catch. So much for Ortons lack of armstrength.

15
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:59pm

That throw to set up the touchdown was a thing of beauty. Right on the money.

19
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:07pm

Anyone who says Orton didn't have arm strength was very ignorant of the situation. Questionable accuracy when throwing deep sure, but he's arm strength has always been fine.

23
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:18pm

All right then. I'll change it to: "So much for Ortons accuracy when throwing deep.

27
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:30pm

The deep TD to Lloyd against the Colts earlier this year was one of the best throws I've ever seen.

29
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:32pm

A lot of people thought that Orton had no arm strength. I'm just saying they were wrong, and probably didn't watch him a great deal.

16
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 2:59pm

Third Jags INT on a dropped ball.

17
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:00pm

Troy Smith, play fakes, lots of time, waits, a small hint of pass rush and he tucks it in an runs. He then fumbles behind the LOS, but the ball bounces right into his own hands and runs it for a gain of four.

Nedney misses a 52-yard field goal, to make all of this moot.

18
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:05pm

Orton gets absolutely creamed by an untouched rusher. Hes shaken up. It was on third down, so the series ended and he walked off the field unassisted.

Approx. 4 seconds after the hit, cameras were on Tebow.

20
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:08pm

It took 4 seconds?

55
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:14pm

The Football God has his curses at the ready; the cameraman and editing staff will have some sleepness nights.

22
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:15pm

What is ir FO calls the stat that measures what percentage of plays is made by each individual defender? Regardless I expect DJ Wiliams to have >80 percent of those. Every, every single time something good happens for the Broncos D, he seems to be in on the action.

Orton in again. 49'ers biting hard on PA, McD takes advantage of this with a flea-flicker. Moreno, after pitcing it back, ducks down and is run into by a 49'er defender who's being blocked by a Guard. Instead of a wide open TD to Gaffney, it's a chop block and -15 yards.

It seems to me, that all the chop-calls (I'm a Brioncos fan, so I've seen a lot) are very thin. It's also always a back going low on on the defender - like he's supposed to. Anyone saw the play, and have thoughts on the call?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:19pm

Percentage of Team Plays.

25
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:23pm

Haha d'oh.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:33pm

You can go low on a defender, but he has to free, not engaged with a blocker.

Seems like a good rule to me, I wouldn't want people diving at my knees while I was basically defenseless either.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:38pm

Sure, but it's never called i situations where I'd consider it to be dangerous. IMO.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:46pm

It would be a massive stretch to say the defender was engaged with a blocker when he hit Moreno in the play in question. The blocker barely bumped him off his stride, then he fell over Moreno who wasn't even looking at him (he'd just tossed the ball back for the flea flicker).

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:02pm

Agree. Moreno had NO chance of avoiding that.

26
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:27pm

49'ers converts a 2nd and 17 with a nice Smith pass despite Denver having 12 men on the Field.

Next play: Smith has time, starts scrambling right, then as he's going down heaves a hail mary towards a guy covered by Bailey and Dawkins. Somehow it's complete to the one yard line.

Basically thats the worst decision he could make, and he gets rewarded by the almost best possible outcome.

Broncos football, everybody.

154
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:41am

I was trying to decide if that was a really good throw or a really bad throw. I see which side you fall on ;)

28
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:31pm

That Hartline end-around may be the first time I've ever seen one of those get more than ten yards or so.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:35pm

You could watch the 2001 Bears-Eagles playoff game. I think the Bears got about 50% of their offense from end-arounds.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:36pm

And there's another one...Heyward-Bey for 30 in the Oakland/Seattle game...(Well, if nothing else, it's harder for him to iron-thumb a handoff than a pass...)

30
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:32pm

Tebow in again, it's a runplay. It's maddening that a excellent offensive coordinator like McD doesn't realize that he has to make Tebow throw it once in a while for that package to be effective.

32
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:34pm

Maybe he's just so excited to have the opportunity to call a running play that he can't control himself.

35
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:39pm

Or that he believes that the Glory That Is Tebow will make the defenders all bow down and worship him so that he can run for twenty yards before they remember that they're allowed to lay violent hands on their Football Savior.

36
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:40pm

Great drive by Troy smith with to pretty completions downfield.

I'm starting to run out of excuses, and must realize that the Broncos just are that bad.

155
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:45am

They picked Knowshon Moreno with Brian Orakpo still on the board. They traded a first round pick for Alphonso Smith, and Smith for a 7th round TE named Gronkowski. Etc...

37
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:42pm

Oh boy. Orton scrambles, is being chased from behind by Manny Lawson who strips him of the football. Takeo Spikes recovers.

39
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:49pm

Blast it.

105
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Whatev :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:57pm

Given that he passed the line of scrimmage, he really ought to have tucked the ball in.

41
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:54pm

What's under review in London?

42
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 3:59pm

Broncos get an extra point blocked. It's now an 8-poin game. Broncos football everybody. It wasn't blocked - Prater just shanked it.

46
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:05pm

They're gonna get it back. Maybe Orton can channel his inner Elway and save us yet.

50
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:11pm

Or maybe not.

Shawntae Spencer interception seals it.

47
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:08pm

And just had a second touchdown taken off the board by a penalty. I hated that call - again, the defender was barely touched. Stupid play by Jarvis Moss though, and totally unnecessary.

48
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:09pm

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?

Sorry for flaming, but Royal took a punt to the house, called back for a thin, thin thin block-in-the-back. The best thing? The Royal was already past the 49'er the foul was comitted on.

49
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:10pm

Game ending INT, Shawmtae Spencer. In British: Bullocks.

52
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:12pm

Bollocks. A bullock is a castrated bull. His bollocks are what he no longer has.

74
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:42pm

I need to work that expression into casual conversation somehow; I'm not British, which makes it more difficult.

51
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by aRX (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:11pm

WTF? Are you kidding? This SD special teams can't be serious can they?

54
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:14pm

I've becoming more and more convinced that this may actually reflect the SD special teams' actual level of competence... @_@

53
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:12pm

Guess what! SD just got a punt blocked for a safety.

56
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:14pm

No way!

57
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:17pm

Totally uncharacteristic of them. Must be a fluke.

58
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:19pm

Sky's blue and water is wet, too...

59
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:22pm

Favre gets the start.

60
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Andrew Potter :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:25pm

Lions score 30+ points.

No wait... what?

82
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:49pm

Definitely a sign of the apocalypse.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:56pm

It's happened 3 times this year...

61
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:29pm

Could someone explain the end of the Lions game? First the Redskins pull McNabb in favor of Grossman for no apparent reason (injury?), then Suh picks up the ball instead of falling on it, then Suh starts strutting at the ten-yard-line. That's three instances of applied stupidity on one play by my count.

129
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Jon Silverberg (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:33pm

One of the funniest moments of the season: Moss bouncing off a completely unaware Suh like bullets bouncing off Superman, or Wonder Woman's bracelet...

131
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:38pm

"Wonder Woman's br..."

My brain went a totally different direction with that.

156
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:52am

This is copied and pasted from the recaps I'm writing for http://fuckitimgoingdeep.wordpress.com/ (actual post should be up Monday), but it might be helpful:

The Redskins faced 4th and 10 from their own 28 with two timeouts and the two-minute warning. I looked over at another game, because surely the Redskins would punt the ball and try to get a stop on defense. Fourth and ten is asking a bit much of that offense, right? Wrong. McNabb gets sacked, but the defense gets their three-and-out and the Lions kick a field goal to go up by six.

Going for it on 4th and 10 was the error that cost the Redskins the game, but they weren't finished making errors just yet.

“Here comes McNabb's slowest two-minute drill in football,” I joked to the fan next to me at the bar. With 1:45 left, they should still be fine. That's when Grossman came in, and turned a hard boiled football game into egg on their face. I'm sure Rex's mom thinks he's a good football player. She and the Shanahans are the only people in his fan club. Players like Grossman don't just fail, they fail spectacularly. On his first snap, he didn't just fumble, he fumbled the ball high into the air, like lava exploding from a volcano.

62
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:32pm

Why is Rex Grossman in the game?

63
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:33pm

OK, did they just call another complete BS DPI on the Chiefs? For the third week in a row?

(Oh. No. It's a hold. Still not sure it actually happened, though.)

2:19 to go in OT. Let's go Tie!

The Cardinals look ridiculous in black.

70
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:40pm

Why are they in black uniforms? Red Zone hasn't said.

77
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:45pm

Mick Jagger saw a red bird and he wanted to paint it black.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:47pm

LOL

64
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:34pm

Harvin getting held off the field. Left ankle is the problem.

66
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:35pm

*helped, ofc.

65
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:34pm

I get irrationally angry whenever the chain gang comes onto the field.

68
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:37pm

Every week CHildress does this. Nice drive with Peterson ripping off chunks of yardage, then after moving the chains... he sends Peterson out and puts Toby in.

69
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:39pm

We might be heading toward a tie in BUF-KC...

72
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Dave :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:42pm

The Chiefs are at midfield. Almost any other QB and I'd think they'd have a chance to win.

But Cassel is just awful.

Edit: Damn, I jinxed him. Good throw and they're near FG range. Damn it. Fumble or miss, please!

76
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by CathyW :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:44pm

Come on tie!!!!

ETA: Well, damn.

79
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:47pm

So disappointing.

70
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:40pm

An intentional grounding pushes the Bills out of field goal range, and we have a tie brewing.

73
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:42pm

Gary Guyton performs a helmet-to-helmet hit on Roger Rabbit. So...turns out DeAngelo Hall was right about that assumed dip on rough hits.

75
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:43pm

Refs miss a legitimate face mask on Favre, then call an iffy roughing the passer.

All's well that ends well I guess.

78
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:46pm

KC hits a field goal at the last minute of overtime. Damn, damn, DAMN!

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:48pm

Peterson looks like he's in on last play of 1st quarter... but Childress doesn't challenge so its first and goal.

First play of 2nd quarter, he gets it again, looks like he's short. They call TD. Bellichek challenges, they look... and uphold the TD call. On slo-mo replay looks clear he's short.

Is this a "make-up" call?

83
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:51pm

If harvin is out, who is Minnesota's backup kickoff returner? Peterson returned one really well his rookie year... overall I think they miss Reynaud on their punt returns, Camarillo is very uninspiring in that role.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:56pm

I know Berrian can do it, not sure if Minnesota would use him though.

84
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:55pm

That tipped catch by Tate had to the one of the flukiest plays I've ever seen.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:58pm

Chilly reacts by wasting a timeout and everyones time by challenging it. Who the canuck thought that was a good idea.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 11:09am

For the honour of Canadians, I must object to this use of canuck in conjection with Brad Childres. We are *not* that stupid.

87
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 4:57pm

Brady throws a pass right into the hands of safety Madieu WIlliams who lets it go through them then tips it to Tate who comes down with a big gain. Despite many replays and it being clear what happened to everyone, and clear there is no doubt about it being a catch, Childress challenges.

Stupid, stupid challenge.

89
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:01pm

He might have been thinking about how Shiancoe's catch from last week got overturned. You don't give the refs hell about it and expect to win a challenge using the same "tactic".

92
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Cloqwerq :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:11pm

It's like he's not even watching.

------------------------------------------------------------
Always looking to learn more about the game. Always.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:08pm

While i have no horse in the MIN-NE race, and pretty indifferent towards the Vikings, I'm very glad to see Harvin back in the game.

91
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:09pm

Favre got laid out on that screen pass.

93
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by aRX (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:14pm

I'm not sure whether to be more impressed with CJ2K...or horrified at the Chargers D O.o

94
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:19pm

Saw the replay of that TD- good Lord that tackling was horrific.

95
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:19pm

Both.

96
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:24pm

I'm usually in favor of going for it, but I think the Vikings should kick here.

Also the Patriots should have called a TO 30 seconds ago.

97
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:25pm

Hard to call timeouts you don't have.

99
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:26pm

Oops, my mistake.

Well they shouldn't have used all 3 before the 2 min warning then.

98
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Jeremy (not verified) :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:25pm

Tough to do that with none remaining.

100
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:27pm

The Patriots just dominated minnesota's line on that 4th and goal from the 1 attempt. Just like when he failed to do the same vs. Miami earlier this year.... there were three patriots already in the backfield by the time he got the ball.

101
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:28pm

4th and goal at the one with a minute to go. Do you kick or go for it? I have a suspicion that it's close. You get no upside from pinning your opponent deep, and the chance of your opponent scoring following the chipshot is small.

Chilly went for it, and Peterson was stuffed.

102
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:29pm

This reminds me of the San Diego game... New England has all of 9 yards rushing, and less than 100 yards passing, of which a third came on that fluke that should have been picked off. Yet they go into halftime tied.

103
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BucNasty :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:30pm

Aquib Talib with a very athletic pick six of Hall, the second one he's thrown today. Derek Anderson's warming up...

157
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:55am

What I think Max Hall must've said after his interception: “I saw the double coverage, coach, I just didn't see the triple coverage!”

104
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:56pm

The safety for the Vikings, Williams, took some of the worst angles I have ever seen a professional defender take. That was embarrassing.

106
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 5:59pm

And as expected, the Patriots suddenly hit a big one and now are leading a game which they did almost nothing offensively in during the first half.

Now Favre will press and throw a pick six.

107
Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Cloqwerq :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:03pm

Well he pretty much threw a pick and got lucky just now. Sigh.

------------------------------------------------------------
Always looking to learn more about the game. Always.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:03pm

Well Favre did go gunslinger and try and hit a big one, and it would have been picked by McCourtey if not for excellent work by Percy Harvin, who had no chance to make the catch, getting his hand in there and knocking it loose before he could come down with it.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Dan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:04pm

Almost. Favre throws a bomb to McCourty, Harvin starts to wrap him up early and forces the drop, and the refs don't call the OPI.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:05pm

Prescient. Good thing Harvin had a nice defensive play there to prevent the int.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:10pm

Boo punting on 4th and inches at the 50 with 6:30 to go in the third quarter, down by 4.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:10pm

How was that throw by Brady not grounding?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:14pm

The refs call Brady for grounding? Surely you jest.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:45pm

He threw it at the feet of an eligible receiver. It was a screen play that got blown up by Allen.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:37pm

I was speaking about the play where he threw it 10 yards out of bounds.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:17pm

There's the pick. Not Favre's fault though, it hit Harvin in his hands.

That's two balls that went through minnesota hands today that ended up caught by a patriot.

Oddly commentators place blame on Favre, but it went into Harvin's hands, don't see it. Usually they blame receivers for balls Favre shouldn't have thrown.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:16pm

Yes, I know, the Pats are good, make your own luck, etc. but damn they get the luckiest breaks to happen to them. Tate has a huge gain off a pass that should have been picked and now Harvin bobbles one into McCourty's hands. I'm sure that's all part of Belichick's training.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 9:29pm

I was thinking that, too, but as a Colts fan I can't think clearly about the Pats. But, in my bias, I'll agree.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by RickD :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 12:53am

I seem to recall this was the kind of talk we heard a lot during their Super Bowl runs.

The guys on the NFL network were asked who they thought was the best team in the AFC. This was after both the Steelers and Jets lost today. Mariucci and Irvin say they still think it's the Jets, and Deion Sanders says that it's the Jets.

None of them seemed to think the only 6-1 team was worth considering.

Mind you, I'm not saying that the Pats are at the level they were at from 2003-2007. They're not really dominating games. But they are coming off a 3-game stretch where they've beaten the Ravens at home, the Chargers on the road (who are better than their record), and the Vikings at home.

Somehow they win in a way that makes it look like the other team's fault for losing.

(Whereas the Colts usually win in a way that makes them look like they are simply much better.)

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 8:39am

True, but what other teams this year have had one opponent simply give them two turnovers like SD did last week, when a rookie just put the ball on the ground and walked away after a catch, and a RB just didn't care to secure the ball after missing a swing pass that was ruled a lateral? This week two long passes go NE's way that seemingly should not have -- a missed Minny INT that turned into a long NE gain when the ball literally went through the defender's arms and popped out into a NE player's hands, and a catch by a Vikings receiver that then popped out into a NE DB's arms (though that play was actually an excellent defensive play by NE -- it just "looked" like a lucky bounce but was actually a great play).
The funny thing for me is that NE fans can't admit any luck -- it ruins the BB as genius angle. Wasn't luck to get a tuck rule, Wasn't luck to have a an INT that should have ended the game turn into a huge gain in the playoffs a couple of years ago against SD. Wasn't luck to have your own starting QB get lambasted on a hit at the end of a game 10 years ago, allowing a 6th round draft pick lingering on the end of the bench to get a chance to show his brilliance. All of those were great coaching moves by BB? He wanted Brady to fumble. He wanted Brady to get picked. He wanted Bledsoe to get a lung collapsed. I don't think so. But, all turned out like roses. There certainly was good coaching in some of that (sticking with Brady, getting WR's to try to strip DB's of the ball), but listening to Pats fans (I have no choice, I live in NE), you'd swear all of those were conscious decisions by BB. He's just that much smarter than anyone else.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BSR :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 9:23am

Of course there is luck, every team has luck. Its part of the game. The notion however that the Patriots receive an inordinate amount of "luck" every year for the past decade is an obvious case of observer bias. I mean look at your above post. None of those are even examples of luck. San Diego is a poorly coached team. The fact that they have mental lapses is part of that. As for the missed interception, DBs drop plenty of almost interceptions. They are only a few DBs that have actual good hands. Was it lucky that it popped up the way it did? Sure but it isn't THAT unusual. It happens quite often.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 11:55am

Certainly I am guilty of bias, but none of these are luck? Has SD been giving away 2 TO's a game on plays where the other team does absolutely nothing to merit the ball except be on the same field on the same Sunday? That's not luck to have a guy leave the ball on the ground after he caught a 20+ pass against your D?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BSR :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 10:13pm

Is it luck when a DB blows an assignment? Is it luck when a olineman misses a block? These aren't examples of luck. They are called mistakes and are indicative of poorly coached teams. They don't reflect at all on BB coaching ability...they just aren't luck.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Mike B. In Va :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 9:52am

The Pats at this point remind me of the 1993 Bills - winning games that they have no business winning simply because they're very good at taking advantage of every positive break they get. I get the feeling that if Brady were to get hurt, though, this team would suddenly be a disaster, so maybe the '99 49ers are a better comparison...

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BSR :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 6:45am

Yes these types of things never happen to other teams. The Redskins never drop three sure interceptions by Manning. TO never catches bobbled passes for TDs. The Steelers never catch a break by a bad call. These things never happen to other teams besides the Patriots.

I swear sometimes people don't watch other games.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 7:45am

Yes, I know they happen to other teams. They seem to happen to the Patriots more, and their fans refuse to acknowledge any sort of good fortune and yell and scream about how this is all part of their coaching.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by RichC (not verified) :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 8:52am

We do?

Or you could just have some sort of beef with the patriots, and think it happens to them more often to anyone else.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 1:08pm

Or it could be they're on television more, so people see more of their games than see Rams games. The Rams could benefit from crazy things like this all the time and no one would know.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BSR :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 9:26am

You are so right. The most obvious answer is that they lucked their way into the most dominant team of the decade. /sarcasm

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 1:07pm

I don't believe I've ever said that. I'm sorry for not bowing to their greatness and recognizing they've mastered tele-kinesis.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Purds :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 1:48pm

That's your mistake, not bowing to the greatness. Genuflect 12 times, underscore every signature with "In Bill We Trust," and perhaps in a few lifetimes you'll be able to appreciate what coaching can do to an opponent's mind.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BSR :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 10:17pm

Yes, because that is the only other alternative to believing the Patriots are inordinately blessed with luck. Looking forward to Santa?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:18pm

Stupidity

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tally :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:42pm

Looked like Moss could have caught the ball even after the DPI.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:50pm

Either a) he lost the ball and couldn't find it, or b) he didn't feel like trying. Both could be true.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:57am

Moss isn't a lazy sloth. Can we please grow up and look at reality, rather than these tired "conventional wisdom" storylines?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 7:42am

So Moss never said "I play when I wanna play"? That's not reality?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by coboney :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 11:17am

Ninjalectual is saying thats just a way over blown and over used for analyzing moss' play which I'd agree with. I don't think that moss necessary does give 110% every play, but then I don't know that most players do.

I suspect moss is somewhat smarter then he's given credit for, with some deep rooted issues, and has matured since his first stint in Minnesota. One thing I have to remind myself about is, that a lot of these guys are pretty damn young, only in their early 20s and for a lot of people, especially those given fame, money and such they aren't matured at that point really.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:26pm

I know that it's hard to believe, but some people might not agree with things they said nearly a decade ago. I looked it up, the quote Rocco mentions was from 2001! That's NINE YEARS AGO. I think a couple of things about the NFL and the world might have changed in that exceedingly short period of time.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Shattenjager :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:47pm

The Vikings' QB is out. Jackson immediately throws a TD and a two-point conversion.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Lvess :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:50pm

That looks like a textbook hit for a broken jaw.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:51pm

Silver lining? Maybe we won't have to hear from Favre for a while.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tally :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:54pm

Do you really believe that?

Brett's jaw will the top story of every Sportscenter next week.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 6:57pm

From Favre, not about Favre. I'm well aware that we'll be hearing all about him no matter what happens this game.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:03pm

They'll rig up some sort of machine like Stephen Hawking has so he can still tell us in the press conferences how hurt he is and how he doesn't know if he can play.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Danish Denver-Fan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:22pm

No can do - an IQ of 60 is needed to operate Hawkins' device.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Jovins :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:24pm

His voice will haunt us through the horror of Wrangler commercials.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BucNasty :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 8:10pm

Apparently, like the Highlander, you have to take his head completely off. He says he's playing.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BucNasty :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:32pm

Cards have been a half a second away on PATs all game, always bursting through the left half of the line. Bucs try a 53 yard field goal and they finally get there.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Jonadan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:45pm

Can someone who was been watching tell me: What's up with the Raiders? Back-to-back blowouts of teams we thought were at least competent has me really confused.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Human Spider :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 7:59pm

After losing to the 49ers today, I think we can rule out the Broncos as a "competent team".

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by JIPanick :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 8:02pm

I think you have to rule out the Seahawks too in that case. Denver clobbered 'em good in week 2.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Rocco :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 8:49pm

Seattle at home is competent. On the road, not so much.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BJR :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 8:51pm

Competent defence, stinking offence.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:59am

This is a new and scary Raiders team. With any luck they will simply fall apart against Kansas City next week and everybody will wonder why we thought they had turned a corner in the first place.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 8:40pm

Ok, the guy in the Favre costume in the Saints crowd. He was wearing pants, right?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 8:51pm

That doesn't seem like a good challenge by Tomlin. The ball came out when Moore's elbow hit the ground, and there was a Steeler touching him to down him at that point.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tuluse :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 9:06pm

On the 3rd and long the Steelers keep going max protect, and the Saints keep bit blitzing.

I have a feeling a receiver screen could go for huge yardage.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by B :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 9:17pm

As is my understanding on how these things work, this play will be ruled a touchdown, because the Steelers are involved.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Cloqwerq :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 9:46pm

Cris Collinsworth @ the hit on Brees: "and that is a facial!" LOL

------------------------------------------------------------
Always looking to learn more about the game. Always.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by billsfan :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 10:12pm

The "Tiny Football League" segment during halftime featured a helmet-to-helmet hit between ~8 year olds as the #1 highlight. Good job, Toyota.

(I also like the Eagles)

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by andrew :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 11:18pm

As of right now:

Highest scoring team in the NFL (and AFC): Tennessee Titans
2nd Highest scoring team in the NFL (and AFC): Oakland Raiders
...
5th Highest scoring team in the NFL (and highest in NFC): Detroit Lions

(san diego and new england are #3 and #4)

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by PantsB (not verified) :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 1:11am

That's not accounting for bye weeks though. By game its even more AFC heavy

NE
Tenn
Indy
Raiders
Chargers
Lions

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Raiders
by Raiderjoe :: Sun, 10/31/2010 - 11:23pm

Raiders are offiivcaly back!!!!!!!!

You know thta is right.

If DVOA and DAVE dont leanr this week then Raiders goign to beat them too.

Chiefs are enxt.

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Re: Raiders
by dbt :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 1:41am

I'm not sure the score (yes, in a 33-3 game) properly reflects just how dominant the Raiders were today. The defense was absolutely spectacular.

Great game to sit in the sun and watch. Definitely looking forward to the Chiefs next week.

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Re: Raiders
by The Ninjalectual :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 2:31am

I'm not sure I'm ready for a world where the Raiders are a good team. For most of last year Michael Bush was their only effective offensive player, but even with him getting first downs, you could still count on the wide receivers to foul drives up and force punts. You can't even count on that anymore—-DHB ran one of the sweetest stop-n-go routes you'll ever see, getting open for a 69-yard touchdown. DHB! Huh?

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Re: Raiders
by Jonadan :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 7:00am

I'm not sure I'm ready for a world in which Al Davis made one of the smarter recent head coach hires, and did it by sticking with a guy who was already with the team - which is the case if the Raiders really are "back".

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by FooBarFooFoo (not verified) :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 9:05pm

Did Polian clone Dallas Clark?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by tally :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 10:49pm

He had ROBO-QB built back in 1998, so I don't see why he couldn't clone Clark in 2010.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Mon, 11/01/2010 - 9:49pm

Has Ryan Diem ever played a game without committing a false start penalty?

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by Paul R :: Tue, 11/02/2010 - 12:01am

All hail Robo-Peyton the Unstoppable.

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by BigCheese :: Tue, 11/02/2010 - 3:11am

Whoever decided that calling three times as many passes as runs against the Colts int he first half, including consecutive 3rd and 4th and 2, should have been fired on the spot. This game was called as well as Lovie Smith handles challenges, Andy Reid manages time and Brad Childress handles players combined.

- Alvaro

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Re: Week 8 Open Discussion Thread
by MichaelPat (not verified) :: Thu, 11/04/2010 - 11:46pm

Hear, hear, BigCheese! I could not believe what I was witnessing Mionday night.

Kubiak's team beat the Colts in week one with a mix of 42 running plays averaging 6.1 yds per play and 19 pass plays averaging 5.2 yds per play.

In week 8, he called the complete opposite mix of plays (18 rush, 42 pass), with virtually identical results - the rushes averaged 6.0 yds per play, the passes 4.5 yds per play. (And, of course, one of those may passes was intercepted and returned for a TD, which isn't reflected in these numbers.)

Why, in the name of heaven, would you do this???? He abandoned what worked in game 1, and then stuck with what wasn't working in game 2.

Aiii Caramba! It's like he couldn't believe he had finally found a way to beat the Colts.

Sometimes, coaching isn't rocket science, Mr. Kubiak!

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