Talk amongst yourselves
7/27: ARI TE, various IDP updates.
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26 Oct 2013
Use this thread to discuss all football-related actions that occur in Week 8.
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 26 Oct 2013
143 replies , Last at
29 Oct 2013, 12:45am by
Aaron Brooks Good Twin
Thursday Night Football:
The Carolina Panthers face the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in a contest to determine which team gets called "surprising" for finishing almost as well as the (now 2-4) Atlanta Falcons in the NFC South.
Watch Greg Schiano continue his quest to pass Bobby Petrino as the biggest a**hole head coach in the history of the NFC South.
TAMPA BAY ON OFFENSE: It turns out that third round quarterbacks who start as rookies usually fail, even if it takes a little bit of time to make that happen. This is especially true when said third round quarterback - whether through nearsightedness, poor coaching (short odds), or basic cowardice - refuses to throw more than ten yards downfield despite having two good downfield receivers and no receiver capable of reliably catching a curl. Roundabout Luke Kuechly's fourteenth Defeat of the game, Mike Glennon will probably officially give up on an NFL career.
CAROLINA ON OFFENSE: Cam Newton has completed 35 of his last 43 passes over two games against Wisconsin and Missouri, cupcakes front-loaded on his schedule as an SEC quarterback. Up next for Auburn is one of those Florida schools which are hard to keep straight because one of them is always good, but never all of them at once. Wait, Cam Newton is in the NFL now? But that offense sure doesn't look like a pro offense to me... Fortunately Cam Newton gets to play another poor team this week. Eventually he will face a real NFL defense, but that will have to wait for Week 10 and San Francisco, because the Tampa Bay defense is coached by a guy who made his reputation beating Iowa State in the Pinstripe Bowl. It will be a while before they rise to the level of a Wisconsin or Missouri.
This is the first of three prime time intra-division mismatches this weekend. We also get GB at Minnesota Sunday night and Seattle at STL Monday. Don't be surprised if there are more Cards fans Monday night at Busch Stadium than Rams fans at the Jones Dome, even though the Rams stadium seats about 20K. If it's anything like the Packers or Steelers visiting, half the Dome will be filled by Seahawks fans.
This whole weekend is filled with lopsided match-ups. Prime time for blowouts, but also maybe an upset or two.
I wonder if the scheduler makers intentionally dumped a bunch of games predicted to be lousy on the Sunday of the World Series.
I don't think so. The Sunday Night Pack@Vikings probably looked pretty good to the schedule makers. Same with Monday's Seahawks@Rams as the Rams looked like an up-and-coming team and split last year's series. The London games have traditionally sucked, and it had to be the Jags against somebody. Having them against the SB runner up at least gave them one good team. I don't think anybody envisioned NYG/Phil to be this bad. Detroit/Dallas and NE/Miami are still good. But there are six bye teams this week (Baltimore, Chicago, Houston, Indianapolis, San Diego, Tennessee) and next (Arizona, Denver, Detroit, Jacksonville, New York Giants, San Francisco). There are nine weeks where teams can be scheduled with a bye. Cramming 12 of those teams into two weekends is just bad scheduling.
Plenty of people expected Minn to take a step back this year (granted, a lot of people for the same reasons thought Indy would regress.)
Also, regardless of your predictions about the Brownies (and really, anywhere from 5 to 8 wins is still realistic at this point,) no one expected KC to be as much better as they were.
Might have a better Line if he was still playing in College...
I figure best case scenario for Tampa is fire Sciano mid-season and replace him with someone worse who keep us winless. We bring in a good coach and let him pick his quarterback with the first round pick and Glennon becomes a backup. I like him well enough and he does have the desire to make things happen, but he misses his target as much as Freeman did.
As for who the next coach would be, it'd never happen but I'd love to see Gruden come back and given a chance with the quarterback of his choosing. Then instead of his pre-draft quarterback interviews he could turn it into a reality show where the winner gets to be his first round pick. And as long as we have a GM who blocks Gruden's tendency to spend tons on mediocre veterans and thus give us alternating good/bad seasons, we may have something good going for a long time. Though lets be honest, what Tampa fan wouldn't be happy with alternating good/bad seasons at this point?
Be sure join a star-studded cast of your favorite FO posters for another season of internet relay football chat!
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Dallas again with Miles Austin as inactive. He's such a talent, but not worth the money if his hamstring holds him out of a good portion of each season.
No one better blame that horrible INT by Brady on the "rookie receivers" or his hand. That was good ol' fashioned execrable decision making.
I've been amazed by how much credit/leeway/etc Brady has been given this year. He's been legitimately terrible.
He's holding the ball way too long, he's innacurate, and hes not even looking at half his receivers. He's just a bad QB right now.
It wasn't a bad decision, Gronk had a step on the DB. It was just a terrible throw.
After running for success on first down, Dallas' second down and short runs have been a failure.
Calvin Johnson muffs a catch which is then picked off by Sean Lee. Don't see Johnson do that very often. Was doubly painful since the Lions were driving and in FG range at the time of the pick.
That INT was all Brandon Carr. He jogged Calvin's elbow just as the ball arrived. Good play by Carr, good luck for Lee.
I don't understand. If you have control and your knee is down, and then you start to lose control, why is it then incomplete?
i"m guessin they are saying he didn't complete the process of the catch, didn't see it though
Don't recall the play, but there are also different sets of rules if you leave your feet.
Another completely BS pass interference call for the Patriots.
I think that the ruling was that by touching the ball before it reached the receiver, the defender interfered with the pass's ability to proceed along its desired trajectory.
Yeah, I don't think a DB is allowed to run into a receiver before the ball gets there, regardless of the opponent. It was a bad throw by Brady, but that's a pretty standard DPI call...
Your sarcasm meter is broken. It was an indefensible call on a play containing nothing that resembled pass interference in the slightest. I've no idea what you're going on about.
Two defenders ran into the WR. It's textbook PI.
THat being said, the ball wasn't really catchable by the receiver because there were 3 defenders between him and it, but thats a judgement call.
Well, somebody's sarcasm meter is broken.
Again with a miserable 3rd down and short attempt by Dallas. They've had success running, so why not try it with 2 yards instead of whatever ridiculous pass play they had in mind?
And now with 1st and goal at the 4 Dallas is going to show that maybe running in short yardage isn't so easy for them...
I wish networks would put passing stats in context. They just ran a blurb about the fasted QB to 15,000 yards and Stafford was leading the list ahead of guys like Marino and Manning. One suspects that if Stafford were playing in 1983 or 1993 and not 2013, he'd not have done as well. The rule changes to highlight passing have changed the game and turn the extraordinary into the ordinary.
Unconscionable at this late in the season that SF would schedule a creampuff OOC like the Jaguars. Thankfully after this season there's a selection committee that'll hold them responsible for...
...oh. At least maybe soon we'll get to see Chad Henne magically morph into garbage time Henne so the Jaguars can rack up a garbage field goal or two.
Lee picks Stafford again and looks to have a clear field to take it for the Schaub. Stafford chases him down and forces Lee to slow down enough allowing Ogletree to chase him down and stop him at the 4. Cowboys score 2 plays later on a pass to Bryant.
I feel like Lee didn't have to stop, but perhaps he knew his legs were dead and he wasn't going to be able to pull off the foot race
Very bad read by Stafford leads to another Sean Lee INT. Then Dez Bryant makes amazing catch against coverage for TD. This game shaping up like last week against CIN.
Big run by Ridley, followed by a bubble screen where Edelman has to almost dive to come up with a ball thrown by Brady, and immediately runs into a defender for a loss.
I'm pretty sure the ball was actually thrown backwards and was live if Edelman dropped it.
This is the shit that nobody seems to talk about... thats a 3 yard throw and Brady misses his WR by a good yard, and it results in a loss instead of a 5 yard gain.
And of course the next throw is a perfect strike to Gronk downfield. So why the hell are so many passes so far off target, when he seems to be able to hit the hard ones?
I wouldn't say that nobody is talking about it. We've been talking about Brady's accuracy for quite some time. Now if you could only get Phil Simms to notice!
Sorry, meant "nobody in the media"
What the heck is with Wes Welker getting his legs eaten by komodo dragons?
And another play where Brady has plenty of times, an open guy, and throws the ball into the ground.
Pats are starting to design plays based on the premise that Brady will underthrow his receivers.
Jump ball to Gronk + 3 defenders? Not a great idea.
Hey - bailed out be flag on defense!
Hey - bailed out by a flag on the offense.
The refs, they give and they take.
I'm sure the Pats' O-line gets away with a lot of holding. But that wasn't holding by Solder on the TD pass.
Johnson coughs up the ball on a reception, recovered by the Cowboys. The Lions cap off the turnover with an unnecessary roughness penalty giving the Cowboys possession at the Detroit 35. It's been a turnoverfest for the Lions today.
Brady throws ball behind Amendola. Nantz blames Amendola for not catching it.
That's the most common of the Brady apologies... ball thrown behind receiver, receiver slows down to get a hand on it, and then gets destroyed. Clearly receiver's fault.
The "But he should have caught that one" shit when a receiver is moving left to right and the ball is three yards to the left of him, and he barely gets his hand on it, pisses me off.
No QB in the NFL can consistently throw balls off target like that and still not get any criticizm, but Brady.
The pass (if you are referencing the Amendola "drop") hit him on the back shoulder. It was a bad throw, but it wasn't three yards behind him.
It was 3 yards behind where it should have been, which was in front of the receiver running full speed.
Not to be pedantic, but you said "three yards behind him". Brady hasn't looked good this season, and yesterday wasn't a particularly glorious performance, but the pass was thrown maybe three FEET behind where it was supposed to be thrown.
We'll have to disagree. When someone is running left to right, has to slow down, and the ball is still behind him, its a lot more than 3 feet. Frankly, I think 3-yards is a low estimate.
Dolphins should keep running on this Pats' defense. It seems to work well enough.
Circus interception by the Pats. Teamwork!
Nice job by Brady to step up into the guy Mankins was blocking.
Phil Simms talking about the Miami defense being tired because NE runs so many plays.... At that exact moment, Miami had run 10 more plays than NE. 63-53.
To be fair to Sims, I think the Patriots have run a ton more plays in the 2nd half than they did in the first half.
Hey NE, you look like you're in danger again. Have a free 35 yards and a new set of downs on us...
You don't want to give the other team yards, don't commit stupid penalties.
Look I get it. You like the Patriots so it's a good thing when the officials fix the game in their favor. No need to pretend it isn't happening.
I get it, you don't like the Patriots, so you're not capable of watching a game without thinking there's some sort of conspiracy.
The defender was falling, the offensive lineman was going to fall on the ball, and he swiped at it to make sure that didn't happen. That's a penalty.
I'm sure the referees called that Delay of Game after the Patriots had stopped the Dolphins on 3rd down to help the Patriots.
the guy didnt bat it though, he was trying to pull it towards him. whoever made that call should be fired.
The only way you can "pull it towards you" is if you get your hand on the far side of the ball. The defender was nowhere near getting his hand on the back side of the ball.
It was a terrible call, stop making a fool of yourself.
That's a very clever argument you've made.
What the defender was intending to do is irrelevant. What he physically did was bat the ball downfield, thus it's a penalty. Incompetence is no excuse; it would be like denying there was DPI because "Ref, I slipped over while intending to jump for the INT, but ended up plowing into the receiver, you can't call that a penalty."
The "batting" penalty requires intent. Otherwise it's just a continued fumble. Otherwise those blooper reel fumbles would be a string of offsetting 15 yard penalties and a replay of the down.
I feel like in most of those blooper reel cases the ball bounces off forearms/shoulders/knees/feet, rather than being batted around cleanly, as was the case here (as in, no contact besides the hands). Can't say I've spent a lot of time reviewing fumble blooper reels though.
batting means he intentionally pushed it forward. what he did was push it forward as a result of not being able to grasp it fully. only the former is a penalty according to nfl rules.
How are you telling that he intended to grasp it?
There was no way for him to grasp the ball with an open hand, on the near side of the ball.
I said he tried to pull it towards him. Obviously, he failed.
How did he intend to pull it towards him? He never made any sort of pulling motion.
THe only motion he made was swinging at the near side of the ball, and the only thing possible that can happen there is the ball moving further away. He batted it.
the guy didnt bat it though
Certainly he did. Whether that was his intention or not is, of course, unknowable, but he clearly batted it. It's conceivable that the "bat" occurred unintentionally as he tried to pull it in; it's conceivable that the "bat" occurred intentionally to prevent the Patriot lineman from recovering it. The officials ruled that it was the latter.
Can we please set the spam filter to filter out any comments that contain the words "ref", "jobbed", "outrageous call" and "you are blind"?
Lions opt for a FG on 4th and goal from the 2 when down 6 in the 4th quarter. Cowboys take to kick off to the 30, and Romo connects w/ Williams on a slant who then takes it to the end zone.
Pretty flop by Kris Durham to draw phantom DPI against Scandrick.
One key aspect to any successful Hail Mary pass, as Ryan Tannehill just discovered, is the presence of your own teams' receivers downfield.
Megatron with a good chance to break the single game receiving yards record.
I don't know why the announcers were so convinced this Cowboys-Lions game was absolutely over.
Because it should have been. Just really poor defense by Dallas.
I meant they were talking as if the game was in a kneel-down situation. The Lions winning was highly unlikely, but all you had to do was look at the clock and the timeouts left to know Detroit would get one last shot.
Just really poor defense by Dallas.
You have to give some credit to Detroit. Stafford's 40-yard pass to Durham on the last drive was about as perfect a throw as can be made. And Johnson was superhuman all game long (other than the fumble and deflected pass that got intercepted).
I'm sure somehow this is Romo's fault.
Oh don't worry, I'm sure some talking heads on ESPN will find a way to make it his fault.
It's really Garrett's fault. Why wouldn't he just kneel down instead of running, and risk the fumble or penalty? He's not playing against Greg Schiano.
They would still get the ball back if you do that, so you should try and pick up the first down on the ground, I would think. A first down was probably more likely than a penalty.
They would get the ball back with less than 40 seconds left. They had zero success running all day, I don't know why they thought it would get better with Detroit expecting it.
It will be by Scott Kacsmar's stats. There were still 12 seconds left on the clock for Romo to get a win.
That bastard Romo, letting Detroit score with 12 seconds still on the clock.
Saw a (sincere) comment on one news site: "Imagine if Dallas had grabbed Alex Smith, they'd be undefeated"
The level of disdain for Romo is just mind-boggling.
To be fair if Romo falls on the ball on the 3rd and 10 with 2:30 to go on the clock instead of throwing it away out of bounds the Cowboys could have burned an extra 30 seconds off the clock or forced Detroit to burn a time out.
Sorry 3rd and 12 with 2:38 left.
Even if Stafford didn't break the plain, was he really stopped on forward progress? Because he immediately ran off to the left side into the end zone anyway.
I think Megatron came up one yard short of the record. Missed XP so he can break it??
7 yards short.
Record for a game finished in regulation.
What are the odds that he won't finish #1 in DYAR anyway this week?
DVOA hates volume, and he had a bunch of long receptions, so I'm going to guess the odds are pretty good.
He also fumbled.
Lions come back on an INCREDIBLE catch by Johnson and then a real heads-up play by Stafford trying to leap over the pile instead of spiking it on the 1.
Best I can tell, if Stafford hadn't made it into the end zone, the Lions were screwed. I don't think they'd have been able to get lined up again for a spike at that point.
That said, there's no way this game should have been close. Detroit should have won this game handily, but they kept handing Dallas the ball. Apparently it's only the 2nd time a team has won with a -4 turnover ratio.
Buffalo and Baltimore, between 1961 and 1970, won three apiece with margins of at least -5.
Then there were these.
Color me misinformed, then. Maybe it was just post-merger or something.
As a chuckle (being someone only interested in the Den/Wash game for academic purposes), Peyton Manning just got called for holding. It was declined, but still.
It was Detroit's 2nd game since 1940 where they overcome a 4 TO deficit.
They are now 2-69 since 1940 in such games.
Dallas is now 43-2 when +4 in TOs.
That was one very smart play by Stafford. I think he had the entire Dallas D fooled.
Probably his own Oline as well!
I'm hyperventilating and tachycardic right now, so I can't put together a coherent thought right now, but I just glanced at River's McCown game capsule:
"don’t look for a monster day from Megatron."
I'm not pointing that out to be a jerk (I myself suck at fantasy football), but only because I found amusing/ironic.
Okay, now I think I'm going to go outside and do some Tai Chi to calm myself down.
I wonder how much of that is because of 'highlight play' blindness. Everyone who doesn't actually watch Detroit thinks Calvin is only about jump balls. Yes, he does that a fair amount, but he is also deadly on slants. He is capable of turning any dinky 8-yd slant into a 70-yd gain.
Rivers doesn't write the Three Cone Drill game previews -- this week, they were written by Ben Jones.
Duke Ihenacho limps to the locker room after a nasty knee twist.
The Broncos D can't get off the field, they are in the face of Griffen but always seem to be a step late.
And when the d finally stop the Redskins in the red zone (on a dropped pass by Santana Moss, they are 12 in the huddle on the FG attempt - results in first down. Next play: TD, Hankerson. 95 yards. Man the Broncos are terrible.
Another lost fumble for the Broncos. Good thing they benched Hillman.
Looks like the Broncos have been exposed/figured out
Errrrrrrrr maybe not so much?
Yes, teams have totally figured out the secret to holding the Broncos to 45 points.
Yeah, about that.
Harry Douglas with another outstanding trip to cost the Falcons a bunch of yards
Why does Matt Ryan always seem to have complete meltdown games against Arizona? Steven Jackson running for one fifth of a yard per carry isn't taking any pressure off of him. Gawd this is ugly.
Miller with the stripsack. Derek Wolfe with the recovery. He's back y'all.
Ok so game all but over i Denver. The last couple of games the offense have looked somewhat vulnerable, but they always end up putting around 40 on the board - thats really hard to beat.
I'm so looking forward to those Chiefs games. Those could be the best games of the year in terms of quality of the teams involved - and possibly a AFC championship preview. The Chiefs have a very good chance - a dominant defense to handle the recievers and take advantage of the Broncos' backup tackles - may hold the Broncos to under 30, and even Alex Smith can easily put up 30 on these guys - especially if they avoid having to play catch-up.
Another INT - goodnight guys.
Alex Smith and the Chiefs haven't put up 30 on anyone. Why do you think they'll do it "easily"?
I thought Denver's defense played really well today. Following that long redskin drive the required a lot of good throws by Griffin under pressure it didn't surprise me to see Denver appear better in the second half.
Okay... that was what, 5 INTs in the last 6 minutes?
I really hate the Viking D secondary scheme. Their cover-2 has the biggest, most consistent seams for the slot/TE I ever see.
Dang, this has been a fast first half.
I just got an urgent request from a team office for advice. Here it is
you are at 3d and 5, at midfield, tie game. Your QB is on fire with more than 80% completion rate, more than 10 yards per attempt, no mistakes, 2 touchdowns.
Your halfback has 31 yards on 14 caries, with 17 yards coming from 1 carry. What play do you call?
run over left tackle to set up the passing game.
run over right tackle; they are not expecting that.
fake quick punt.
Please vote soon as poaaivle
That Phantom Pass Interference call completely handed MINN an undeserved TD
Probably. But I'm not sure that early PI against Minnesota on the Packers first drive was PI either.
Other than Megatron and Fitzgerald, is there a better WR in the NFC than Jordy Nelson? And I'm not sure if Fitzgerald is better.
As a Pitt Grad I love Larry Fitz, but he is no longer what he was. His routes are sloppier and his talent has deteriorated as of late. He is still in the Brandon Marshall class, but can't be amazing with terrible QB play anymore.
But yes, AJ Green is a beast.
AJ is why I limited the comparison to NFC.
Thats goofy, like limiting QB play to the NFC when Brady and Manning were #1/2 in the NFL in 2004-10.
It's not goofy. It's limiting the discussion to what I know. I don't follow the AFC as closely. (Packers fan and live in St Louis.) Therefore, I limited the discussion. I knew AJ was really good having seen him play against the Packers and having him in a FFL. That is all.
Manning or Brees (or C. Johnson) will win the MVP-- but the best QB in the NFL is playing tonight. What he is doing with a depleted roster is something-- what Michaels and Collinsworth fail to mention are all the check-offs and audibles he is now making at the line of scrimmage-- more times than not switching to a running play or changing the direction of a running play. And he's awful good at it.
I stayed away from the NFL all day today running some new wires through my basement. Looks like I missed some excitement.
Finally finished up and turned on the tv in time to catch the 4th quarter of Packers/Vikings. Ho-hum.
FYI, pet rabbits think ethernet cables are delicious.
That DPI on 4th and 4 may just turn this game around! Go Vikes!
I have a number of questions relating to the play on which Duke Ihenacho was injured in the Denver/Washington game. First, watching at the stadium, it looked like Ihenacho got the ball off the deflection before it hit the ground. Granted, I'm not an objective viewer, so it might have been a clear incomplete pass, but it certainly looked like it was worth a review, given that it was in the last two minutes of the first half. Did anyone have a clear look at that play? Any links to video would be greatly appreciated.
Second, if it had gone to a booth review, would the Broncos have been charged a timeout for an injured player in the final two minutes, or would the procedural play stoppage for the booth review have negated that?
Third, it appears that a timeout for an injured player in the last two minutes is not treated at all the same as a called timeout? The Broncos called their final timeout immediately following the placement of the ball after the injury timeout and were not assessed a 5 yard penalty for calling consecutive timeouts. I guess that's less of a question than an observation of a strange quirk in the rules.
This is barely a question at all, but more a gripe about the behavior of Bronco fans today. Washington had a large number of players go down with injuries today and starting around the third quarter, fans in the stands started booing almost every time it happened... I guess on the premise that it was a deliberate stalling tactic or something. Is this sort of classless behavior seen anywhere else in the league, or was this beyond the pale even for football fans? It felt really shitty to hear people who have self-selected into a group that I have also self-selected into acting like that.
They showed the replay on TV, the ball definitely hit the ground.
The booing when players go down has been starting to happen in a few places where the home team is running a hurry up offenses. I've heard it in two or three other places. I agree it is awful, on the other hand some players have either pretty much admitted they have faked 'injuries' in the past to slow down offenses or we've seen multiple players suddenly go to the ground appearing to be hurt. The League actually sent a memo out about faking injuries earlier this year so faking is at least perceived to be an issue by the league. Unfortunately it is turning into a little bit of a reaping what was sowed type of situation.
Nobody watching on Monday night? Well, I switched over after the Sox won.
Rams might just win this one if they can score a TD.
If my aunt had a penis, she might be my uncle.
She could probably also punch in 1st and goal from the 4.
You know, I really can't argue with Tirico there. 4th and goal from the 1-and-a-half, having gashed Seattle's defense for nearly two hundred yards on the ground, with a backup quarterback in whom St. Louis had so much confidence that they tried to sign a 44-year-old guy who'd been out of football for three years during the off week...and they choose to pass.
Possibly Stacy being out with injury played into that decision, but I can't help but think empty-the-backfield was not the best strategy. Maybe put a back in there and do play action, or have Clemens bootleg (or a QB draw if he can run), but...I just do not see that play call as being their best option in an all-or-nothing scenario..
Passing is okay. Going empty backfield twice? Bad idea.
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