Discuss all of Week 9's fascinating football action in this here thread.
Posted by: Rivers McCown on 04 Nov 2012
195 replies , Last at
06 Nov 2012, 12:55am by
Intropy
1
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
by Nevic (not verified) :: Thu, 11/01/2012 - 4:43pm
The FO article earlier today is titled "Officiating: Bad Options". Tonight we have Thursday Night Football: Bad options. Neither of these teams have an offense that is remotely interesting to watch.
Apparently the Chiefs are running the world's most specific timeshare at RB because Jamaal Charles only carries the ball on 1st down anymore. This wouldn't be a problem if the Chiefs could actually get 1st downs.
by Levente from Hungary :: Thu, 11/01/2012 - 9:46pm
Commentators were praising (actually just saying once) that KC moves the ball well. I'm not a football expert, but 4 yards / play, really? It's more that they are moving with the ball like a whale on the shore.
1st down - Off tackle run with Charles
2nd down - shotgun with Hillis in protection
3rd down - McCluster
Now I've never played football but even I can recognize a pattern when I see it on TV. If I can see this exact play call pattern I'm positive that paid NFL defensive coordinators can too. Perhaps Daboll only uses 3-5 plays because he can't count any higher?
the announcer said the tipped ball "throws off all the penalties". including a hit on a defenseless receiver?? i don't know the rule, but it doesn't seem like that penalty should be "thrown off" if it's intended to protect the player from a potentially dangerous hit like that
I'm just accustomed to the refs throwing the Personal Foul on calls a lot more ticky tack than that, it seems like if its questionable at all the refs are usually going to flag it these days.
Are all of these turnovers the fault of the coaching? Something to think about. You could say the strip-sack was the fault of the O-line, and the O-line's bad play was due to bad coaching. But what about the tipped pass? And what about the muff/fumble on that punt? (Not clear to me whether it's a fumble or a muff..he seemed to briefly have control.)
I don't know, but Romeo's not going to have this job for very long.
by joe football (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 1:20pm
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Almost another special teams TD as Hester runs a punt back inside the ten yard line. Forte gets a TD run on the next play. On the second play of the ensuing drive, they do get another defensive TD, as Urlacher joins the pick 6 party.
On the first play of the next drive, Tillman forces another fumble that the Bears recover, his second forced fumble today that the Bears recovered. The Bears have 38 yards of offense, yet have scored 3 TDs already.
On an outside run right on the sideline, DeAngelo Williams nearly scored a TD, but the refs blew the whistle to indicate that Williams stepped out of bounds. The Redskins defenders obviously stopped pursuing Williams BECAUSE the whistle was blown. Replay showed that it was a bad call, Williams did not step out. But the refs didn't have a replay review, they just changed the call on the field to a touchdown.
How can this be allowed? THEY BLEW THE WHISTLE! When they blow the whistle, the play is over, right? If the Redskins defense kept playing after the whistle, they would surely be penalized and fined. The refs just gave Williams a free, defender-less path to the end zone.
EDIT: Mike Pereria just came on to confirm that the refs made a major, major mistake right there that gave the Panthers a free touchdown. I can't remember ever seeing a call blown this badly.
The refs don't seem interested in giving the 'Skins any make-up calls, they keep calling everything close--and several plays where there was no penalty at all--against them.
Agreed. If you blow the whistle, the play is dead. You don't get to go back and change your mind, because the defense has already stopped playing, as they're supposed to.
Presumably the head ref heard the whistle, just like the players and the fans at home did. It was a solid, confident blow, not some half-accidental one that might have been presumed accidental or ignored. If the ref is too gutless to admit it, that's a whole different problem on top of everything else.
First time I'm really watching these guys but Tannehill and Luck look really good, composed, pocket presence, getting the ball out, anticipating, throwing on the move the whole package.
Even though Hayward got beat pretty badly on the Roberts 40-yarder, he was able to recover and still get a hand on the ball. Good sign for a guy who was considered somewhat slow for the position.
-----
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Washington converts two 4th downs on a drive, then get stuffed on 4th and goal from the 2 yard line. It didn't work, but I have to agree with the call to go for it.
by Nevic (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 3:21pm
The GB running back just fumbled. Rodgers was 15 yards behind the play when the RB fumbled but the ball squirted sideways and somehow Rodgers came diving in to recover the fumble!
Great play by the Panthers, using Steve Smith as a decoy to clear out space for Armanti Edwards, who took his second career reception 82 yards. He didn't score, but they just punched it in from the 1.
The Redskins are having trouble against the Panthers, but it would be a close game except for the really, really bad and very one-sided refereeing. This is the second game this year the Redskins have really been screwed by some unfair, one-sided refereeing (the first one was the Rams game in week 2).
The Broncos seem to have Champ Bailey following AJ Green on both sides of the field. I'm a fan of that kind of defense, when you have such clear #1 WR and a #1 CB, it seems to give the offense too much of an advantage to not do that, but so few defenses do.
A holding penalty (C Jeff Faine on Von Miller) negates a hell of a throw and catch from Dalton to Green to convert a 3rd and 15, and Bailey picks off Dalton's 3rd and 25 heave.
Charles Tillman just forced his fourth (!) fumble today. The Bears have recovered three of them. This last one was returned inside the 5 yard line, so the Bears just missed another defensive TD.
The Bears took out their entire first team defense after going up 51-12. Chris Johnson then runs 80 yards for a TD on the first play against that defense.
by SFC B (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 4:52pm
Buffalo is at their 30 facing a 3rd and 8 trailing Houston 21-9. There is 10:32 remaining. Chandler drops what would have been a 1st down pass. They punt. This seems to me to be the wholly wrong choice. How many more possessions did Buffalo think they were going to get? The Texans are more than capable of pulling off a 5-6 minute drive and just letting the clock finish the job.
Redskins have had two touchdowns negated by two pretty weak penalties inside the 2-minute warning. The refs are just relentless this game! Evan Royster finally scored for a third time on this drive to put them within 8, but the refs cost them too much time.
by Nevis (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 5:09pm
The Arizona receiver couldn't get out of bounds, so he tried to lateral the ball out of bounds. A Packer hit it, but it still went out of bounds. The refs stopped the clock. Why don't more players do this when they need to get our of bounds but are being tackled?
For the same reason that kick returners rarely know that if they field a kickoff with one foot out of bounds, the kick is considered out of bounds, and the returning team gets the ball at the 40.
Charles Tillman just got 3 more snaps on offense in victory formation (following up on a discussion in one of the articles earlier this week). When he ran onto the field with less than 2 minutes remaining, Thom Brenneman got all excited that he was coming out to play on offense. Brian Billick immediately told him that he was just coming out for victory formation. Many Bears fans (including me) were yelling the same thing at their TVs.
The Raiders scored a 55-yard touchdown that was called back on a holding penalty. I can't remember seeing as many touchdowns called back due to penalty across the NFL as I have this week.
It seems like the Redskins have had more touchdowns called back due to penalty this season than any team I've seen--does anybody know where I could look that stat up to see if my perception = reality?
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:21pm
Should note that this comes just a few plays a huge DPI on what was a good defensive play.
One play later the running back is clearly stopped short of the end zone, yet the review calls it a TD. Even Phil Simms can't believe what he's seeing.
by Jim D (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:22pm
Yeah, refs killed the Steelers on that drive with that call in the end zone as well as the pass interference earlier in the drive..both seemed like bad calls.
At this point Ryan Clark has to know that if he does anything remotely close to unnecessary roughness he'll get flagged. Just like Bernard Pollard. Its pretty clear the refs target certain guys who have reputations as head hunters.
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:26pm
Neither QB in this game having a good day. Giants are getting consistent pressure on Roethlisberger, and Manning has hit a Steelers defender in the hands three times, one of which was a pick. Thanks God for the Steelers running game suddenly exploding over the last three weeks.
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:27pm
Roethlisberger throws it into the dirt, Giants pick it a incomplete pass and run it in for a TD. Roethlisberger is looking at the officials in disbelief.
by 'nonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:28pm
Shameful sequence of bad calls in the NYG-PIT game. 41 yard pass interference on the Steelers, followed by a personal foul after the Steelers stop the Giants on 3rd and goal. Both were bad calls with big effect, where the defense actually made a great play. Why not simply make penalties reviewable? I'm sure the refs would be glad to correct those calls.
by 'nonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:36pm
...or maybe reviews aren't the answer! That review was a farce.
Cruz is sitting out a drive or two for bruised ribs, sustained on what "officially" was a helmet-to-helmet hit. If Clark can be fined for illegal hits that aren't penalized, maybe the league should pay for that penalty?
Refs in NJ are really screwing over the Steelers.
They just called a fumble what seemed to be nothing more than an incomplete pass. On top of the bad calls above.
by Anonymous3467813 (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:32pm
Refs are just full on cheating to get NY a win. 42 yard DPI that wasn't close. H2h in the chest. A run stopped half a yard short that gets called a TD. An obvious incomplete pass getting called a fumble for a TD the other way. This is not a football game.
by Anonymousasabove (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:36pm
Oh yeah and Cruz gets away with faking an injury, bruised ribs on the h2h. While Miller actually was hit helmet to helmet with no flag. The league office needs to call the game or get replacements in there right now and correct the score.
by 'nonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:51pm
No, I don't think the refs are part on any conspiracy-- I don't know how you mess up reviews that badly, but we've seen it before. They certainly won't change the score. I hope the Steelers can recover the points and pull out a win.
by Anonymousasabove (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 7:03pm
I don't think there's a conspiracy either. I think a couple of officials have decided independently to give NY the emotional win maybe consciously maybe not. It's still cheating, and it's been absolutely flagrant thus far.
Commentators are comparing it to the Tuck Rule.
But in the tuck rule he had possession, and then fumbled it.
With Ben, he lost possession and managed to push the ball fw.
Even as a Steeler fan I have to agree with the refs here.
As I saw it, he gets the ball knocked out but he manages to push the ball fw.
You could argue that that means possession (I would disagree), but it's not as clear as you state it.
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:37pm
The QB does not lose a possession because someone on the other team touches it while its in his hand. I honestly have no idea what you think you're seeing.
I thought it was tuck rule all the way at first. Then on replay it was close but I now believe the refs got it right. QB loses control of the ball after contact from the DE and then it doesn't matter after that since control is never reestablished. Fumble.
I could be wrong on that rules interpretation but it's hard to believe the refs would botch something like that.
by 'nonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 6:42pm
The Gaint hit Ben's arm as he cocked it back to throw. That made Ben's arm wobble as he tried to throw, or maybe to pump fake. The ball was wobbling along with his arm, but it wasn't slipping from his grip until the very end, when he tried to pull it back in. The rules are very clear: that's an incomplete pass.
It's a forward pass. It might not be a lovely forward pass, but Roethlisberger was pushing it forward just as much as half of the shovel passes you'll see.
I thought on the PI that the DB put both his arms around the WR while the ball was in the air, maybe he didn't pull him but he should know better than to do that. I think that was a questionable call, but the DB has to be more disciplined.
The TD looked like the tip of the ball crossed the line, not sure why people think that one is outrageous. At least it was close enough not to overturn it.
The Unnecessary Roughness call was terrible.
The fumble was a tricky one. By the letter of the law it might be fumble, just because there is no way you can say for sure if Big Ben possessed the ball after it was tipped. But very close.
I thought the PI was PI. But the roughness call in the end zone was terrible. I was OK with the TD because it looked like the RB was on top of somebody else and thus not down.
The roughing call was blatantly wrong but only in the fact that it was called a blow to the head. The defender pounded a defenseless receiver should have been the call. That said, I still didn't like the call but it's one of those penalties that appears to not be very consistant to my eyes which stinks.
Yeah, that looked about right at first until I saw a hit and Cruz down and motionless. My wife immediately called out that it was a hit to the sternum.
Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless
posture.
(a)Players in a defenseless posture are:
(8)A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and
approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.
by platypus (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 7:31pm
If you cut backwards of your own accord you don't get forward progress from where you started running backwards. That's just when you get pushed back by a hit.
Can we have a vote for who is the "Biggest Idiot", Terry Bradshaw or Phil Simms? Bradshaw drove me away from pre-game shows, Simms may drive me to mute entire games. So frustrating.
I'm inclined to agree but it's possible they saw something on tape that showed a weakness on the Giants short FG plays. Barring that, yeah, better to run a real play there.
That was exactly my take on the situation. As far as going for it, it reminded me of the Seahawks-Packers game. The Seahawks failed on 4th down inside the 5, but they were able to stop GB and get the ball back in prime position. But because of what happened next I don't think anyone remembers. Anyway, I wish more coaches were more aggressive like that.
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 8:07pm
Probalistically, a sneak or a plunge is much, much more likely to convert, and much, much less likely to result in a turnover. (I may have actually hallucinated Suisham fumbling.)
by 'nonymous (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 8:09pm
Aw, come on, Giants-- try some plays to actually gain some yards. Don't just try to draw long pass interference! I really can't respect that (no matter how successful it's been today).
by CraigoMc (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 8:13pm
I can't really blame them for doing what works.
But here's an opportunity to agree with Simms - I think that if DPI is going to be such a ticky-tack penalty, it should be 15 yards. In most cases it's impossible to know whether the receiver would have caught the ball cleanly.
I don't need to try anything. College isn't the pro game. Not even close.
Were the rule to be implemented in the NFL players will be coached to bring guys down because they can if they are beat on long plays. DBs in college for the most part don't even have the talent to pull off such a thing.
Any way you slice it, changing the rule is not an easy of a fix as many would like to believe.
I got spam filtered out of longer reply, but I'm thinking 15 yards from the spot of the foul for unsportsmanlike conduct on an obvious take-down, plus 15 for "mere" PI would do the trick.
Definitely a better solution than just adopting the college rule.
The problem really is, as we all know, the interpretation aspect of PI. Reviewing all PI has been continuously voted down by the owners and competition committee so that is out.
Absolutely the best game they've played. Couldn't agree more.
Running game was terrific and not many teams can harass Eli like that and basically shut the Giants down in the second half. Not to mention a great job not giving Eli a chance to do the last minute thing again by running out the clock.
First half of Steelers-Giants: "We're secretly switching the regular NFL referees with the worst replacement refs from earlier in the season...can these fans tell the difference?"
Fourth quarter of Steelers-Giants: "We're secretly switching the Steelers' defense from the Denver, Oakland, and Tennessee games with the Steel Curtain...can the Giants tell the difference?"
The NFL is missing a tie-in opportunity with Folger's.
by DEW (not verified) :: Sun, 11/04/2012 - 11:59pm
Is it just me, or are the Cowboys getting a ton of yardage after initial contact throughout this game? Regardless of the ultimate result of the play, I've seen any number of broken tackles or failure-to-wrap-up hits where Cowboys runners didn't go down. That kickoff return by Dunbar following the FG was just another example: he dithered at the goal line and got hit at the 10, but broke the tackle and kept going...
He saves the game there with two good 3rd down pickups. He's not exactly speedy, but changes direction on a dime and seems to have a nose for the 1st down line.
by Michael LaRocca (not verified) :: Mon, 11/05/2012 - 12:34am
I was going to tweet "It's 4 o'clock. Have the Panthers lost yet?" Then I got home 5 minutes later and saw that we were winning one. Surprise surprise surprise.
Andy Reid should be fired at halftime for allowing this catastrophy of an offensive line to happen. How many weeks does it take to realize that perhaps, just perhaps, an extra blocker or two in the backfield might help. Week, after week, after week teams bomb the gaps around the center and they just can't block it and show no signs or realizing or fixing the problem.
by troycapitated p... :: Mon, 11/05/2012 - 11:22pm
At the half the Eagles are gaining just 4 yards per pass attempt before yardage lost to sacks is even taken into account. Including the 3 sacks they are gaining just 2.4 yards per attempted pass.
Meanwhile they've gained 8.6 yards per rush attempt.
21 attempted passes, including sacks vs. 18 rushing attempts is fairly balanced, but the results are obviously not balanced at all. Even for somebody with Andy Reid's long-standing reputation for being pass happy, this seems like the kind of disparity that would force you to take notice and adjust your play calling.
Cover DeSean Jackson? Now why would anybody want to do that?
Seriously, he's still quite probably the most dangerous man in the NFL to let loose in the secondary when he's already got the ball. (Though based on the last two games, Doug Martin is pretty dangerous, too.)
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Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The FO article earlier today is titled "Officiating: Bad Options". Tonight we have Thursday Night Football: Bad options. Neither of these teams have an offense that is remotely interesting to watch.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
That's okay, because they're being shown on a make-believe network that most people can't watch.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
oboy. Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal are inactive and Chargers signed Seyi Ajirotutu. Plus, Larry English and ILB Jonas Mouton are healthy inactives.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
This game is insane. KC is on its 2nd possession and there's 3 minutes left in the 2nd quarter.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Chiefs bring in Peyton Hillis for 3rd and 1. Gets 0.
But it's really not his fault. LB is in backfield before Hillis has a chance.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Apparently the Chiefs are running the world's most specific timeshare at RB because Jamaal Charles only carries the ball on 1st down anymore. This wouldn't be a problem if the Chiefs could actually get 1st downs.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Why, they have 8 in 2 drives.
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If the Chiefs only get 2 possessions in half, that undoubtedly ties a record for fewest possessions in a half, no?
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Damnit! Chiefs INT results in a 3rd possession, albeit a kneeldown.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Technically they got a 3rd after the pick.
But we've yet to see a punt in this game. And it's only 10-3!
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
No punt yet - offensive explosion!
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One play after the announcers praise Rivers for throwing the ball out of the end zone, he throws a pick on 3rd and goal from the 1 yard line.
Heh heh heh.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
If only it had been a pick-6 :-)
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Commentators were praising (actually just saying once) that KC moves the ball well. I'm not a football expert, but 4 yards / play, really? It's more that they are moving with the ball like a whale on the shore.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Deion Sanders is a catastrophe!!!
I felt that had to be said.
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The Chiefs again fail to block on 3rd and short.
Hey, a punt!
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
It's just so much fun to root against the Chargers. They give you so many opportunities to rejoice.
Fumble when wrist, not elbow, hits the ground. Will it stand?
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
1st down - Off tackle run with Charles
2nd down - shotgun with Hillis in protection
3rd down - McCluster
Now I've never played football but even I can recognize a pattern when I see it on TV. If I can see this exact play call pattern I'm positive that paid NFL defensive coordinators can too. Perhaps Daboll only uses 3-5 plays because he can't count any higher?
C'mon man, switch things up a bit....
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I'm confused...Jamal Charles had a carry on 2nd down. Was the OC confused about the down?
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The turnover confused him...
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Bowe has to catch that.
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Man KC sucks.
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Sweet. Chief ineptitude trumps Charger incompetence.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Vegas may want to re-think who the worst team in the league truly is. Jacksonville was considered a 24 point favorite in a hypothetical game vs. Bama.
Jacksonville would be beat this KC team. Bowe and Cassell have played together since 2009, its amazing that their so inefficient.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Wow! I'm shocked they didn't flag that. Textbook headhunting.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
the announcer said the tipped ball "throws off all the penalties". including a hit on a defenseless receiver?? i don't know the rule, but it doesn't seem like that penalty should be "thrown off" if it's intended to protect the player from a potentially dangerous hit like that
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
You can hit receivers after the ball has been tipped. There is no more DPI or illegal contact. Still can't go helmet to helmet.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
If it was helmet-to-helmet, it comes down to whether the receiver was "defenseless" or not. I thought he wasn't.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I'm just accustomed to the refs throwing the Personal Foul on calls a lot more ticky tack than that, it seems like if its questionable at all the refs are usually going to flag it these days.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
That TD is all Cassel's fault. He's got to go down for the safety.
Well, by "all" I mean the TD instead of safety. The safety was the fault of the right tackle.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The final score is not going to do justice to this game. Except to the failures of the KC offense.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Are all of these turnovers the fault of the coaching? Something to think about. You could say the strip-sack was the fault of the O-line, and the O-line's bad play was due to bad coaching. But what about the tipped pass? And what about the muff/fumble on that punt? (Not clear to me whether it's a fumble or a muff..he seemed to briefly have control.)
I don't know, but Romeo's not going to have this job for very long.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
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Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Bears unsustainable defensive/ special teams scoring continues.They now have as many tds on DST as they have given up all year.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Almost another special teams TD as Hester runs a punt back inside the ten yard line. Forte gets a TD run on the next play. On the second play of the ensuing drive, they do get another defensive TD, as Urlacher joins the pick 6 party.
On the first play of the next drive, Tillman forces another fumble that the Bears recover, his second forced fumble today that the Bears recovered. The Bears have 38 yards of offense, yet have scored 3 TDs already.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
On an outside run right on the sideline, DeAngelo Williams nearly scored a TD, but the refs blew the whistle to indicate that Williams stepped out of bounds. The Redskins defenders obviously stopped pursuing Williams BECAUSE the whistle was blown. Replay showed that it was a bad call, Williams did not step out. But the refs didn't have a replay review, they just changed the call on the field to a touchdown.
How can this be allowed? THEY BLEW THE WHISTLE! When they blow the whistle, the play is over, right? If the Redskins defense kept playing after the whistle, they would surely be penalized and fined. The refs just gave Williams a free, defender-less path to the end zone.
EDIT: Mike Pereria just came on to confirm that the refs made a major, major mistake right there that gave the Panthers a free touchdown. I can't remember ever seeing a call blown this badly.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Week 3, Packers-Seahawks.
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“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The Packers/Seahawks call was a bad judgement call. This was a blatant disregard for the rules as they are written.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The refs don't seem interested in giving the 'Skins any make-up calls, they keep calling everything close--and several plays where there was no penalty at all--against them.
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This game's head referee should be fired immediately after this game. There is absolutely no excuse for getting that call wrong.
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Agreed. If you blow the whistle, the play is dead. You don't get to go back and change your mind, because the defense has already stopped playing, as they're supposed to.
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What if the guy who blew the whistle is too gutless to admit he did it. Then how is the head ref supposed to know?
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Presumably the head ref heard the whistle, just like the players and the fans at home did. It was a solid, confident blow, not some half-accidental one that might have been presumed accidental or ignored. If the ref is too gutless to admit it, that's a whole different problem on top of everything else.
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First time I'm really watching these guys but Tannehill and Luck look really good, composed, pocket presence, getting the ball out, anticipating, throwing on the move the whole package.
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Regrettably, Luck's had a great deal of practice throwing on the move. He really looked good today doing it, admittedly.
That strike to Wayne while being forced to his knees was something else.
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Even though Hayward got beat pretty badly on the Roberts 40-yarder, he was able to recover and still get a hand on the ball. Good sign for a guy who was considered somewhat slow for the position.
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“Treat a man as he is, and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be.”
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
False start and holding penalties killing Houston. They drove to the Bills 19 then Sack and Williams sack and a false start result in a blocked FG.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Washington converts two 4th downs on a drive, then get stuffed on 4th and goal from the 2 yard line. It didn't work, but I have to agree with the call to go for it.
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Jonathan Joseph goes to the sidelines and getting his hand/wrist treated. That doesn't bode well.
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The GB running back just fumbled. Rodgers was 15 yards behind the play when the RB fumbled but the ball squirted sideways and somehow Rodgers came diving in to recover the fumble!
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So many crappy games today, so many highlights with appalling tackling. Ugly day in the NFL.
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Great play by the Panthers, using Steve Smith as a decoy to clear out space for Armanti Edwards, who took his second career reception 82 yards. He didn't score, but they just punched it in from the 1.
The Redskins are having trouble against the Panthers, but it would be a close game except for the really, really bad and very one-sided refereeing. This is the second game this year the Redskins have really been screwed by some unfair, one-sided refereeing (the first one was the Rams game in week 2).
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Maybe the officials want Romney to win the election: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/11/03/will-...
This is meant just to point out this interesting history and not to engage in commentary that would violate Rule #1.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Ha, I'm familiar with that streak. Is this really the last Redskins home game before the election?
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Well, yeah, since the election is this Tuesday.
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Funny thing was that the Red Zone host felt compelled to tell us what an incumbent is.
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Funny thing was that the Red Zone host felt compelled to tell us what an incumbent is.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The Broncos seem to have Champ Bailey following AJ Green on both sides of the field. I'm a fan of that kind of defense, when you have such clear #1 WR and a #1 CB, it seems to give the offense too much of an advantage to not do that, but so few defenses do.
A holding penalty (C Jeff Faine on Von Miller) negates a hell of a throw and catch from Dalton to Green to convert a 3rd and 15, and Bailey picks off Dalton's 3rd and 25 heave.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Charles Tillman just forced his fourth (!) fumble today. The Bears have recovered three of them. This last one was returned inside the 5 yard line, so the Bears just missed another defensive TD.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Roughing the passer penalty on Cleveland: "Hit the quarterback above the neck."
Rich Gannon after the replay: "Yeah, you can see him club Flacco on the shoulder."
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The Bears took out their entire first team defense after going up 51-12. Chris Johnson then runs 80 yards for a TD on the first play against that defense.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
In the same moment, it looks like the Broncos just won (touchdown to Eric Decker), and the Redskins just lost (turnover on downs).
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Buffalo is at their 30 facing a 3rd and 8 trailing Houston 21-9. There is 10:32 remaining. Chandler drops what would have been a 1st down pass. They punt. This seems to me to be the wholly wrong choice. How many more possessions did Buffalo think they were going to get? The Texans are more than capable of pulling off a 5-6 minute drive and just letting the clock finish the job.
Luck
I can't see the game. How is it that Luck has 400+ yards passing, no interceptions, but only 23 points?
Re: Luck
The Colts have attempted 5 FG and two were missed. Not the entire story, but I'd guess that's a contributing factor.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Redskins have had two touchdowns negated by two pretty weak penalties inside the 2-minute warning. The refs are just relentless this game! Evan Royster finally scored for a third time on this drive to put them within 8, but the refs cost them too much time.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The Arizona receiver couldn't get out of bounds, so he tried to lateral the ball out of bounds. A Packer hit it, but it still went out of bounds. The refs stopped the clock. Why don't more players do this when they need to get our of bounds but are being tackled?
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For the same reason that kick returners rarely know that if they field a kickoff with one foot out of bounds, the kick is considered out of bounds, and the returning team gets the ball at the 40.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Charles Tillman just got 3 more snaps on offense in victory formation (following up on a discussion in one of the articles earlier this week). When he ran onto the field with less than 2 minutes remaining, Thom Brenneman got all excited that he was coming out to play on offense. Brian Billick immediately told him that he was just coming out for victory formation. Many Bears fans (including me) were yelling the same thing at their TVs.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The Raiders scored a 55-yard touchdown that was called back on a holding penalty. I can't remember seeing as many touchdowns called back due to penalty across the NFL as I have this week.
It seems like the Redskins have had more touchdowns called back due to penalty this season than any team I've seen--does anybody know where I could look that stat up to see if my perception = reality?
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Refs in PIT-NYG call "blow to the head on a defenseless receiver." Replay shows the receiver was hit in the chest.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Should note that this comes just a few plays a huge DPI on what was a good defensive play.
One play later the running back is clearly stopped short of the end zone, yet the review calls it a TD. Even Phil Simms can't believe what he's seeing.
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Cruz has his head up his @55?
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Yeah, refs killed the Steelers on that drive with that call in the end zone as well as the pass interference earlier in the drive..both seemed like bad calls.
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At this point Ryan Clark has to know that if he does anything remotely close to unnecessary roughness he'll get flagged. Just like Bernard Pollard. Its pretty clear the refs target certain guys who have reputations as head hunters.
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I was wondering if Clark's was a reputation call.
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Neither QB in this game having a good day. Giants are getting consistent pressure on Roethlisberger, and Manning has hit a Steelers defender in the hands three times, one of which was a pick. Thanks God for the Steelers running game suddenly exploding over the last three weeks.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Roethlisberger throws it into the dirt, Giants pick it a incomplete pass and run it in for a TD. Roethlisberger is looking at the officials in disbelief.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Refs uphold it. Something is wrong here.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Shameful sequence of bad calls in the NYG-PIT game. 41 yard pass interference on the Steelers, followed by a personal foul after the Steelers stop the Giants on 3rd and goal. Both were bad calls with big effect, where the defense actually made a great play. Why not simply make penalties reviewable? I'm sure the refs would be glad to correct those calls.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Not these refs
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...or maybe reviews aren't the answer! That review was a farce.
Cruz is sitting out a drive or two for bruised ribs, sustained on what "officially" was a helmet-to-helmet hit. If Clark can be fined for illegal hits that aren't penalized, maybe the league should pay for that penalty?
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Wow looks like the G-men are getting some post-Hurricane aid! Way to boost moral, refs.
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Pittsburgh 7 Officials 14
This is disgraceful.
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Big Ben fumbles an incomplete pass.
The ball came out before he throws... that's... the rule I guess.
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Refs in NJ are really screwing over the Steelers.
They just called a fumble what seemed to be nothing more than an incomplete pass. On top of the bad calls above.
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So the score is now PIT 7 - REF 14.
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Refs are just full on cheating to get NY a win. 42 yard DPI that wasn't close. H2h in the chest. A run stopped half a yard short that gets called a TD. An obvious incomplete pass getting called a fumble for a TD the other way. This is not a football game.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Oh yeah and Cruz gets away with faking an injury, bruised ribs on the h2h. While Miller actually was hit helmet to helmet with no flag. The league office needs to call the game or get replacements in there right now and correct the score.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
No, I don't think the refs are part on any conspiracy-- I don't know how you mess up reviews that badly, but we've seen it before. They certainly won't change the score. I hope the Steelers can recover the points and pull out a win.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I don't think there's a conspiracy either. I think a couple of officials have decided independently to give NY the emotional win maybe consciously maybe not. It's still cheating, and it's been absolutely flagrant thus far.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Commentators are comparing it to the Tuck Rule.
But in the tuck rule he had possession, and then fumbled it.
With Ben, he lost possession and managed to push the ball fw.
Even as a Steeler fan I have to agree with the refs here.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
His arm is fully extended when the ball comes out. I don't care who you're a fan of, that's an incomplete pass.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
As I saw it, he gets the ball knocked out but he manages to push the ball fw.
You could argue that that means possession (I would disagree), but it's not as clear as you state it.
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The QB does not lose a possession because someone on the other team touches it while its in his hand. I honestly have no idea what you think you're seeing.
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I see a ball come out of his hand before Ben manages to half throw / push it forward.
What are you seeing?
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I thought it was tuck rule all the way at first. Then on replay it was close but I now believe the refs got it right. QB loses control of the ball after contact from the DE and then it doesn't matter after that since control is never reestablished. Fumble.
I could be wrong on that rules interpretation but it's hard to believe the refs would botch something like that.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The Gaint hit Ben's arm as he cocked it back to throw. That made Ben's arm wobble as he tried to throw, or maybe to pump fake. The ball was wobbling along with his arm, but it wasn't slipping from his grip until the very end, when he tried to pull it back in. The rules are very clear: that's an incomplete pass.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
On the review where the commentator is saying it's a fumble, I'm now seeing it didn't come out as much as I saw it the first time.
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It's a forward pass. It might not be a lovely forward pass, but Roethlisberger was pushing it forward just as much as half of the shovel passes you'll see.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
So how are the refs going to stop Redman?
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Apparently they can't :)
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Bring back the replacement refs. Bill Levy's (sp?) crew is at least consistent, but 'consistently wrong in one direction' is not a good thing.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I thought on the PI that the DB put both his arms around the WR while the ball was in the air, maybe he didn't pull him but he should know better than to do that. I think that was a questionable call, but the DB has to be more disciplined.
The TD looked like the tip of the ball crossed the line, not sure why people think that one is outrageous. At least it was close enough not to overturn it.
The Unnecessary Roughness call was terrible.
The fumble was a tricky one. By the letter of the law it might be fumble, just because there is no way you can say for sure if Big Ben possessed the ball after it was tipped. But very close.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I thought the PI was PI. But the roughness call in the end zone was terrible. I was OK with the TD because it looked like the RB was on top of somebody else and thus not down.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
The roughing call was blatantly wrong but only in the fact that it was called a blow to the head. The defender pounded a defenseless receiver should have been the call. That said, I still didn't like the call but it's one of those penalties that appears to not be very consistant to my eyes which stinks.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Cruz was being manhandled in the end zone before the pass. Thought that was the flag at first.
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that's legal 5 yards downfield
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Beyond 5. I have him in FF so was watching closely.
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Yeah, that looked about right at first until I saw a hit and Cruz down and motionless. My wife immediately called out that it was a hit to the sternum.
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hahaha
Did she actually call it "the sternum"?
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LOL! Yup!
It was oddly specific. :)
She quickly followed with: that was nowhere near his head.
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for clarification
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She makes up for being an Eagles fan in other areas. ;)
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Crazy DPI number 2! OK not crazy. Still wrong but at least it was almost defensible as a call.
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Doug Martin is very, very good.
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He reminds me of Emitt Smith (or at least as much as any back since Smith).
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Big pass for the Giants. Harrison is being pulled back from behind, but really, who cares at this point?
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Vikes just kicked a figgie that should have been DoG but somehow I don't think there will be 30 outraged posts about it.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
On that return the refs didn't feel like pretending it was a block in the back, so they went ahead invented a foul. Illegal blindside block!
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I looked it up for you, look below.
I didn't think it was "unnecessary contact"
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless
posture.
(a)Players in a defenseless posture are:
(8)A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and
approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Aka the "Warren Sapp / Chad Clifton" rule.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
If you cut backwards of your own accord you don't get forward progress from where you started running backwards. That's just when you get pushed back by a hit.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Jesus every time I flip over to Bucs/Raiders Doug Martin is breaking a long TD.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Overheard in that conference:
What's the flag?
Spearing.
Against NY?
Oh yeah. My bad. Never mind. Force of habit.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Mike Wallace is hit helmet to helmet while he's on the ground. Refs pick up the flag after a stern talk-to from Bill Levy.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Its clearly the correct call. The WR was not considered defenseless and was trying to get back up.
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Yup, he's a runner at that point.
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Defenselessness is not part of the spearing rule. That's a different foul.
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Wallace delivered one of the nicest slant 'n burns I've seen.
On a serious note, how fast is Wallace?
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Wallace used to be one of the fastest guys in the NFL. Don't know if that still holds; he hasn't been as impressive the past two seasons.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Can we have a vote for who is the "Biggest Idiot", Terry Bradshaw or Phil Simms? Bradshaw drove me away from pre-game shows, Simms may drive me to mute entire games. So frustrating.
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I never care about commentators. They don't really annoy me, but Simms is in a retarded level of his own.
With excuses with to the retarded people.
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Simms isn't an idiot, he just isn't good at being a color commentator. Terrific studio analyst.
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I vote for Bob Costas.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
#98 Tracy of the Giants is fast also... wow.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
For some reason Tomlin thought a kicker was more likely gain ten yards than a Running back was to gain one.
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That was a stupid call. A sneak there is going to pick up the half yard needed. Why give up all that yardage?
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Wow, I think Tomlin will be retiring the Suisham Sweep for awhile.
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Steelers down by three, going for a FG to tie the game...but it's a fake!
Because nobody would expect a fake on a play that could tie the game!!!
Fake fails miserably, Giants still have the lead. Wow. Worst coaching decision I've seen in quite a long time.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
I'm not sure a single Giant was fooled by that.
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It looked like more Steelers were confused than Giants.
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It's only a bad call if Eli drives for either a score or a big field position flip-flop. Steelers defense is dominating right now.
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Going for it is not a bad decision. Trying the fake instead of a conventional play is.
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Totally agree with this. A simple sneak might have worked.
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I'm inclined to agree but it's possible they saw something on tape that showed a weakness on the Giants short FG plays. Barring that, yeah, better to run a real play there.
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That was exactly my take on the situation. As far as going for it, it reminded me of the Seahawks-Packers game. The Seahawks failed on 4th down inside the 5, but they were able to stop GB and get the ball back in prime position. But because of what happened next I don't think anyone remembers. Anyway, I wish more coaches were more aggressive like that.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Case 1: Steelers kick FG, tie game, kick off, Giants are stopped. Game is tied.
Case 2: Steelers turn over ball on downs. Giants are stopped.
Why is Case 2 better than Case 1?
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Field position
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Probalistically, a sneak or a plunge is much, much more likely to convert, and much, much less likely to result in a turnover. (I may have actually hallucinated Suisham fumbling.)
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Not only that, but the difference in field position if you fail is likely meaningful.
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So if Eli throws a pick-6 it's a good call again?
I don't think the result determines whether it was a good decision or not.
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I didn't say that so no. Going for it was a good call.
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You said
"It's only a bad call if Eli drives for either a score or a big field position flip-flop."
It's right there for all of us to read.
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yes, but not with a fake FG.
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So Martin is getting Strasberged & backup RB fumbles. This somewhat watchable Raiider game is messing up the late game rhythm.
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Aw, come on, Giants-- try some plays to actually gain some yards. Don't just try to draw long pass interference! I really can't respect that (no matter how successful it's been today).
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I can't really blame them for doing what works.
But here's an opportunity to agree with Simms - I think that if DPI is going to be such a ticky-tack penalty, it should be 15 yards. In most cases it's impossible to know whether the receiver would have caught the ball cleanly.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
If it's changed to that then every DB will just yank down their guy when they are beat.
No thanks.
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Yeah, like they do in college on every single play.
Try again.
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I don't need to try anything. College isn't the pro game. Not even close.
Were the rule to be implemented in the NFL players will be coached to bring guys down because they can if they are beat on long plays. DBs in college for the most part don't even have the talent to pull off such a thing.
Any way you slice it, changing the rule is not an easy of a fix as many would like to believe.
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I got spam filtered out of longer reply, but I'm thinking 15 yards from the spot of the foul for unsportsmanlike conduct on an obvious take-down, plus 15 for "mere" PI would do the trick.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Definitely a better solution than just adopting the college rule.
The problem really is, as we all know, the interpretation aspect of PI. Reviewing all PI has been continuously voted down by the owners and competition committee so that is out.
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Leaving aside the officiating issues, this may have been the best game the Steelers have played this year. That's a damned good Giants team they beat.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Absolutely the best game they've played. Couldn't agree more.
Running game was terrific and not many teams can harass Eli like that and basically shut the Giants down in the second half. Not to mention a great job not giving Eli a chance to do the last minute thing again by running out the clock.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Falcons starting slowly on national TV; thought we'd gotten over that in the Denver game this year.
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Man if the Falcons had a good RB who could catch the ball they would be awesome.
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Falcons get one good play (Go route Jones) plus a couple of penalties, but can't run the ball and Bryant ganks the FG. Not Atlanta's night so far.
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First half of Steelers-Giants: "We're secretly switching the regular NFL referees with the worst replacement refs from earlier in the season...can these fans tell the difference?"
Fourth quarter of Steelers-Giants: "We're secretly switching the Steelers' defense from the Denver, Oakland, and Tennessee games with the Steel Curtain...can the Giants tell the difference?"
The NFL is missing a tie-in opportunity with Folger's.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
So on that big play Robinson is thinking "I'd better keep an eye on Romo. He's only 30 yards away."
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Ware candidate for fastest sack of the week; completely unblocked on Ryan; Baker takes inside man and Rogers runs immediately into pass route.
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That's a really obvious false start by Romo, right? The QB can't jerk his head up and down to simulate the snap. Philip Rivers knows.
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Nice 1 min drive by Atlanta for last second FG, aided by Dallas injury TO and penalty to stop clock. 6 all at half
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Romo sacked himself there ...
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Reminded me of Jim Everett's Phantom Sack vs. SF in the 1989 NFC Championship Game.
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JUST EXTEND THE DAMN GOAL POSTS
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whoops, it didn't go over. My point still stands
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Nice Turner run sets up Falcon go-ahead TD. Rare statement this year.
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Man. Carter for the Cowboys is playing well at LB. If only the rest of the team could do that.
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Is it just me, or are the Cowboys getting a ton of yardage after initial contact throughout this game? Regardless of the ultimate result of the play, I've seen any number of broken tackles or failure-to-wrap-up hits where Cowboys runners didn't go down. That kickoff return by Dunbar following the FG was just another example: he dithered at the goal line and got hit at the 10, but broke the tackle and kept going...
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Prevent D vs Hurry-up O; not pretty. Cowboys within 3
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Jaquizz Rodgers for the first down and more
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He saves the game there with two good 3rd down pickups. He's not exactly speedy, but changes direction on a dime and seems to have a nose for the 1st down line.
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I was going to tweet "It's 4 o'clock. Have the Panthers lost yet?" Then I got home 5 minutes later and saw that we were winning one. Surprise surprise surprise.
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Dallas' defense played about as well as one could hope for with Ratliff hurt and the hole beside Bruce Carter.
Romo, Witten, and a gimpy Austin not enough on offense. Close but no cigar.
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Not that the defense played well, but I wasn't that bullish on their pass defense even with Lee healthy.
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Terrible play call and execution by the Eagles results in a 99 yard pick-6.
Goodbye, Andy Reid. And goodbye, Michael Vick.
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Andy Reid should be fired at halftime for allowing this catastrophy of an offensive line to happen. How many weeks does it take to realize that perhaps, just perhaps, an extra blocker or two in the backfield might help. Week, after week, after week teams bomb the gaps around the center and they just can't block it and show no signs or realizing or fixing the problem.
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Run defense seems to be a thing of the past judging by these two teams
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At the half the Eagles are gaining just 4 yards per pass attempt before yardage lost to sacks is even taken into account. Including the 3 sacks they are gaining just 2.4 yards per attempted pass.
Meanwhile they've gained 8.6 yards per rush attempt.
21 attempted passes, including sacks vs. 18 rushing attempts is fairly balanced, but the results are obviously not balanced at all. Even for somebody with Andy Reid's long-standing reputation for being pass happy, this seems like the kind of disparity that would force you to take notice and adjust your play calling.
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Above all they have to stop ordering deep drops for Vick whilst their injury-ravaged O-line has no ability to block
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Cover DeSean Jackson? Now why would anybody want to do that?
Seriously, he's still quite probably the most dangerous man in the NFL to let loose in the secondary when he's already got the ball. (Though based on the last two games, Doug Martin is pretty dangerous, too.)
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
Bill Leavy just phoned in to rule that Vick fumbled on that play.
Re: Week 9 Open Discussion Thread
nm
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