Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

09 Jul 2009

Which players who are not currently in the HOF do you believe should be in the HOF?

From my team, I would have to say Rickey Jackson. It bothers me more now, after Andre Tippett's inclusion, than it did a couple of years ago. Yes, linebacker stats are flawed, and it's not Rickey's fault that he played on some brutally bad Saints teams, but when you compare their stat lines, there should be no argument.

From a team that is not my own, I will have to bring up Ken Anderson. I don't think that should receive a lot of debate from this site.

Posted by: Sophandros on 09 Jul 2009

19 replies , Last at 04 Sep 2009, 5:02pm by CandlestickPark

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF
by hoochiemama :: Fri, 07/10/2009 - 9:19pm

Russ Grimm would be my pick. He was a beast next to Jacoby and a huge reason for the Redskins making guys like Schroeder and Rypien all pros. Good pass defender but a devastating run blocker. Ask Randy White, he ate Randy White's lunch.

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Sun, 08/02/2009 - 1:11pm

Interestingly, the guys at Pro Football Reference seem to think Jacoby is a better HOF candidate than Grimm, mainly based on the fact that LT is a harder position at which to excel than G.

However, the most deserving former Redskin is neither of those two, but rather Chris Hanburger. There's really no reasonable way to dispute that.

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Re:
by BigCheese :: Sun, 07/12/2009 - 12:34pm

Richard Dent, the Superbowl XX MVP, key cog in one of the dominant defenses of the NFL, Top 5 in all-time sack board. How he's not already in I'll never know.

- Alvaro

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Re:
by tuluse :: Mon, 07/13/2009 - 12:49pm

I think he was the first player to get 100 sacks too. Although a big reason is that they just started counting sacks before he entered the league.

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Re:
by BigCheese :: Mon, 07/13/2009 - 5:55pm

And of course, there were many fine pass-rushers before that, but that also doesn't diminish the fact that he was one of the best when they started counting. I know he played at the same time as LT, so he wasn't the best in the League, but not being as good as LT should NOT be the measuring stick for getting in the HOF (And I'm not saying that's hwy he's not in. But I honestly have no idea why he isn't).

There's also the Superbowl MVP thing. If Lynn Swann could get in because of that, why can't Dent, who deserves it more anyway?

The 85 Bears are widely considered to be one of the greatest teams of all time. How come only three of them are in the Hall? No one else from the offense is getting in, but are Dent and Marshall really not HoFers?

pro-football-reference.com's new similar players list has

Claude Humphrey, Ray Childress, Neil Smith, Steve McMichael, L.C. Greenwood, Howie Long*, Jim Katcavage, Dan Hampton*, La'Roi Glover, Cortez Kennedy for Dent

and Pat Swilling, Andre Tippett*, Willie Lanier*, Kevin Greene, Charles Haley, James Farrior, Bill Forester, Joe Fortunato, Brian Urlacher, Greg Lloyd for Marshall.

That's some pretty good company.

- Alvaro

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Re:
by bachslunch :: Thu, 08/20/2009 - 7:28pm

Problems with Richard Dent's HoF candidacy:

-in his 15 year career, he was a 1st team all pro only once and a pro bowler 4 times.

-he had a reputation for taking plays off sometimes, something HoF voters don't seem to like very much.

Problems with Jim Marshall's HoF candidacy:

-in his 20 year career, he was a pro bowler only twice and never once was named 1st team all pro by any organization. If he were elected, these numbers would easily be the worst for any postseason-honors eligible DL in the HoF.

-in playing reputation, he can be seen at best as the third-best DL on his own team, behind Alan Page and Carl Eller, who are both in. And Eller didn't get elected until his 13th try as finalist in his last eligible year. If Eller is seen as this marginal, where does this put Marshall?

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Re:
by BigCheese :: Thu, 09/03/2009 - 11:31pm

While I'm actually also in favor of Jim Marshall's candidacy, I was talking abot Wilbur Marshall (probably got a little carried away there) :P

- Alvaro

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Re:
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 11:20am

About the 85 Bears being one of the best defenses/teams of all time-

The 2000 Ravens had one of the best defenses of all time and won the Super Bowl, but only 2 guys from that D will make the HOF (Rod Woodson and Ray Lewis). Just because a defense was great, that doesn't mean the players individually were great enough to be Hall-worthy. Instead, the Ravens' D had a lot of very good players like McAllister, Boulware, Siragusa, and Adams, who came together to form a great unit.

Similarly, the Redskins under Joe Gibbs (the first time) consistently had top offenses, won 3 Super Bowls, and had one of the best offensive lines of all time, but the only 2 offensive players from those teams in the Hall (or who will get there) are John Riggins and Art Monk. Like the Ravens on D, the Redskins' offenses had a lot of very good players like Theismann, Grimm, Jacoby, Byner, and Clark, but players who weren't quite good enough to make the Hall.

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF
by Ruggernaut (not verified) :: Fri, 07/17/2009 - 2:17pm

Ken "The Rattler" Riley

Tons of INT's and a tough defend that never got his due because he wore the curse stripes.

A very strong case could be made for Ken Anderson as well, crazy accurate in a time when DB's could mug receivers and the QB was allowed to truly get hit. Both Bengals, hence, both denied.

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF
by bachslunch :: Thu, 08/20/2009 - 7:15pm

Agreed with Anderson, who definitely belongs in.

Don't agree that Ken Riley belongs in before fellow Bengal CB Lemar Parrish. Parrish was a monster KR and was selected to 8 pro bowls as opposed to Riley's none. Also, Riley only returned kicks a few times in his rookie season, and in none too distinguished fashion.

Besides, if there truly was a conspiracy to keep Cincy Bengals out of the HoF, Anthony Munoz would not be in.

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF...
by Zack :: Mon, 07/20/2009 - 12:28pm

Let me just say that if DT Ted Washington is not in the Hall of Fame, I will lose all respect for the institution. He changed games more than any D-Lineman of the era. Even though he bounced around the league a lot, each team he arrived on saw a VAST improvement on their run defense.

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF...
by Anonymous Coward (not verified) :: Tue, 07/21/2009 - 4:26pm

Curly Culp, Dick Lebeau

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF
by andrew :: Tue, 08/04/2009 - 12:16am

From my team, I'll go with Jim Marshall.

From (not my team), I'd go with Cliff Harris, hands down.

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Which players who are not currently in the HOF...?
by bachslunch :: Thu, 08/20/2009 - 6:45pm

Seniors I think should be in the HoF:

END (pre 1950): Lavvie Dilweg

BACK (pre 1950): Verne Lewellen

LINEMEN (pre 1950): Duke Slater, Al Wistert, Riley Matheson

CENTER: Mick Tingelhoff

GUARD: Ed Budde, Walt Sweeney

OFFENSIVE TACKLE: Jim Tyrer

WIDE RECEIVERS: Billy Wilson, Billy Howton, Mac Speedie, Otis Taylor, Harold Carmichael, Drew Pearson, Harold Jackson, Lionel Taylor

TIGHT ENDS: Jerry Smith, Pete Retzlaff

RUNNING BACKS: Floyd Little

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN: Gene Brito, L.C. Greenwood, Claude Humphrey

LINEBACKERS: Chuck Howley, Maxie Baughan, Chris Hanburger, Tommy Nobis, Joe Fortunato, Robert Brazile

DEFENSIVE BACKS: Abe Woodson, Cliff Harris, Jim Patton, Bobby Dillon, Jack Butler, Johnny Robinson, Lemar Parrish

KICKERS/PUNTERS: Tommy Davis

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF...?
by CandlestickPark :: Fri, 09/04/2009 - 5:02pm

You seem to have put some thought into this. Any reason why Jerry Kramer is not on your list?

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF...?
by bachslunch :: Thu, 08/20/2009 - 7:08pm

Eligible Non-Seniors I think should be in the HoF:

CENTERS: Dermontti Dawson

GUARDS: Russ Grimm, Steve Wisniewski

TIGHT ENDS: Ben Coates, Shannon Sharpe

WIDE RECEIVERS: Cliff Branch, Andre Reed, Henry Ellard, Sterling Sharpe, Stanley Morgan, Cris Carter

QUARTERBACKS: Ken Anderson

DEFENSIVE LINEMEN: Chris Doleman, Cortez Kennedy, John Randle

LINEBACKERS: Kevin Greene, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, Charles Haley

DEFENSIVE BACKS: Kenny Easley, Steve Atwater, Leroy Butler, Joey Browner,

KICKERS/PUNTERS: Nick Lowery, Ray Guy

And to the Seniors List, add Randy Gradishar

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Re: players not currently in the HOF that should be in
by buzmeg :: Sun, 08/23/2009 - 9:12am

Cris Carter
Ken Anderson
Ray Guy
Jim Marshall

--

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some others
by Raiderjoe :: Tue, 08/25/2009 - 9:58pm

Cliff Branch
R Guy
K Stabler
D Lamonica
Lester Hayes
Cris Crater
billy Howton
Chris Hamburger
l Parrish (exclelett Bengals paleyr in 70s becka when bengas was sort of good team; make playoffs a couple of times lose to Dolphins one time, colts once, Raiders )
Tom Flores as coach (not as player was mostly crap qb with Bills and chiefs)

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Re: Which players who are not currently in the HOF...
by Rev. Slick (not verified) :: Thu, 08/27/2009 - 12:00am

Andre Reed and Ray Guy, off the top of my head.

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