Articles from around the Web
PDF VERSION NOW AVAILABLE
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vince Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
J.J. Cooper: @jjcoop36
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Matt Waldman: @MattWaldman
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
07 Nov 2005
Coach Andy Reid announced at his Monday press conference that Owens has been suspended four games for conduct detrimental to the team and will not be brought back after that suspension.
Posted by: admin on 07 Nov 2005
122 comments, Last at
10 Nov 2005, 7:05pm by
Immature laughing over now!
In all seriousness, I have friends who went to the skins game last night in Eagles jerseys and had the audacity to complain about the way they were treated.
Man it sucks when other cities act just like you.
Season's not over but I hate the Eagles and am rolling around on the ground with joy as we speak.
Good for them.
and the people rejoice.
They say you can tell a lot about people by the kinds of friends they keep.
All I have to say is "Go Coach". I'm glad someone is finally doing something about TO instead of just always looking the other way.
As an Eagles fan, I'm actually relieved that he's gone. TO's obviously not the Eagles entire problem this year (see DVOA on special teams), but I can't be happier that he's gone.
What a frustrating talent.
I'm sure glad I didn't get a TO jersey. Click my name for the guy whose jersey I DID get. Seems like he'll be around for a while.
The only thing about this announcement that makes me happy is that now (after the next couple of days of course) we can finally stop hearing about TO every week. I really wish it could have been worked out though.
While I think that TO is an idiot for publicly badmouthing his team, this seems like an overreaction. A one-game suspension seems reasonable, but 9? Would it have been less if instead of criticizing McNabb, he'd said that the team would've been better off with Jeff Saturday at center?
This is a bigger punishment than players get for firing weapons near nightclubs, committing assault, etc.
Well, it's not a 9 game suspesion. It's a 4 game suspension, and then he'll be deactivated for the rest of the season, so he'll be paid to stay at home.
I must say, I am suprised that Reid went this far.
I mean he's no Mike Tice or anything, but Reid isnt really known around the league for his disciplinary measures... no?
Damn, my fantasy team just got RUINED.
Oh well, I knew it was risky...
oh yeah the redskins had a legit homefield advantage for the 1st time in years last night, and it caught many eagles fans off guard. Snyder killing all that ticket scalping paid heavy dividends last night, and in the seattle game.
But about t.o., must quickly add reggie brown to fantasy team.
The funny thing is that so many Redskins fans think they're making fun of Eagles fans by saying "TO Must Go" or "No TO Tonight" like they were on Sunday night.
james's reaction above is pretty much the same.
See, the thing is, why would you think this bothers Eagles fans? We've been screaming for this to happen for a while now.
That said, I can understand why people think this makes the Eagles a worse team. I mean, where in the world could we possibly get another receiver who can get an average of 100 yards and a TD a game?
Point of note for the sarcasm impaired.
Who will the Eagles trade T.O. to in the offseason?
I'm guessing Detroit.
Man, I'm on vacation. Situps in the front yard tomorrow!
i may be hated for believing this, but this is bullsh*t. first off, most of this thing is media created anyway. so what if he said they would be undefeated without farve. the way mcnabb has been playin with all the injuries and one dimensional offense, he has every right to believe that. he also should be pissed that they didnt at least recognized his 100th TD and then come out with a lame excuse on why. i dont agree with everything he does, but this is horrible for the team. they all say that they can get by without him, even though its pretty obvious that if you take a player of that calibur out when you arent doing all that good in the first place, what makes you believe that you will be better without him ie present day Vikings. i hope that some people in philly will wake up and see that while he may be a prick at times, if they want to get to the playoffs, they are going to have to rely on him rather than guys like greg lewis and billy mcmullen
RE 15: I'm guessing Minnesota. Trying to replace Moss.
On a different note, anybody notice that Drew Rosenhaus has been completely silent the last couple months? I think he's realizing that not matter how much money he may make off of T.O.'s next contract, the hit his image will take just from being associated with this crap would be a much bigger loss. At least T.O.'s agent has some brains.
This isn't all about smack talk people. People can deal with smack talk. But T.O. is no longer playing hard for the team because he doesn't care, and probably more importantly, he's getting in fist fights and threatening people in the locker room. You can't let one of your players be punching people in the head at practice. That's not good for business.
Lets cut to the heart of the matter....
Ray, you bought a kicker jersey!?! (re: #8)
T.O. should get medical help. I want to hate him but part of me believes his actions come from the depression he feels by getting himself into this mess in the first place. One thing is clear, i would not set foot in philly if i were T.O. I'm sure the philly mob would like to "talk" to him.
In no particular order:
1. TO will no longer be under contract with Philly next year, so he won't be theirs to trade. As a free agent, I can see him going to Oakland for small money on a one-year deal.
2. It is NOT an over-reaction. All TO had to do was apologize, and he'd probably be playing next game. He refused to (sincerely) apologize, even privately, to the team, the QB, or the front office.
3. Could the Peoples' Champion be back? I remember he worked out for Green Bay a week or two ago, but I don't think he was signed. I miss FredEx.
4. Once again, I will be lobbying Webster's for the addition of the verb "Keyshawn" to its next edition.
this thing is media created anyway. so what if he said they would be undefeated without farve.
(Favre, by the way. The V is first)
No, it isn't media created. Owens beat up an Eagles employee in the training area, and then threatened the remaining players.
That's not media made up. That's him being a real problem. It's also borderline criminal.
dryheat - i couldn't agree more with points 2 through 4, but as for point 1, there is no chance that T.O. will go anywhere for small money. He is both too self-centered and (when it comes down to it) too talented to sign for anything less than a top 5 WR salary.
He's still under contract. He's under contract, for no money until pretty far into next season. They'll trade him, simply because some team (if they want him) will want the rights to him without the risk of him going on the free market.
This is why the Eagles are deactivating him, rather than cutting him. They recoup about $1M, and it only really costs them a little more than $1M, plus the roster spot, for the likely possibility of a trade in the offseason.
Oh Lord, please don't let T.O. be misunderstood - just let the man get himself some help.
Heckert said they'd be looking at free agent WRs. Who's out there? Why do names like Terance Mathis and Qadry Ismail come to mind?
#25 I'll defer to you, Pat, but don't the Eagles have to pay TO something like a 7 million roster bonus next year to keep him, or he becomes a free agent?
Incidentally, I should point out that I'm not really sure about how trades work in the NFL. Can you just trade a player, and the other team assumes that player's current contract, without that player having a yes or no?
If Owens has to agree to a trade, then I'm confused as to why the Eagles don't just cut him in four weeks, rather than pay him for the remaining games, as I doubt Owens will agree to any contract with another team. He'll force the Eagles to cut him just so they don't get anything in return.
Some never learn.
Yah, but that roster bonus doesn't kick in until March 3rd. They would just need to trade him after the end of the season, and before March 3rd.
yeah the eagles are going 8-8 this year, it will be a gutsy, hard fought 8-8 and many football fans and critics will respect them but nevertheless they are going 8-8. As a redskins fans let me just say watching the philadelphia football organization blow numerous superbowl opportunites that past six years has been a treat. The cowboys and giants will put the final nail in your coffin.
Right, but whoever trades for him would have to have a previously agreed contract. Otherwise they can wait until released. I don't think more than 3-4 teams will be interested in T.O. Why commit the money it's going to cost to sign him, PLUS throw the Eagles a player or draft pick? It's possible, but IMO unlikely.
What caused the fist fight? The un-punished Eagle's ambassador accusing, almost directly, TO of faking an injury? What kind of message does that send, that the Eagles organization condones Douglas's behavior, or maybe even encouraged it? All TO does is want to win and accusing him of faking an injury to not play seems like a huge insult to me and Hugh got, or should have gotten had a few of those punches landed, what he deserved.
I don't want T.O to go. I want him to stay. I'm just rejoicing that the Eagles will be paying(after the suspension) to stay home.
Now where have I seen a team be successful for about 5 years, then bring in a free agant wide out who's a head case, then go to the superbowl, then tank for a few seasons straight? Ahh yes Tampa Bay. What week did TB have enough of Keyshawn?
Gruden coached under Reid. He couldn't call Reid and say please dont do it.
Last year I said "T.O is the personification of the beginning of the end for the EAgles". I watched them go to the superbowl and never felt so wrong. Then this year happened and I was vindicated.
We all know how history likes to repeat itself...watchout you dont want to be like TB in Philly.
Warrick Dunn = Westbrook
-I know he didnt play for them in the SB year
Keyshawn = Terrell
Dawkins = Lynch
Rhonde = Sheldon
Rice = Kearse
Johnson = Kiffin
Comparisons aren't that far off. After the super bowl they went downhill fast. ARe the wheels spinning of the bus?
#33 ...plus, you end up with TO! Does anyone believe he can turn over a new leaf? The escalation of anti-team (read: anti-social) behavior leads me to believe we are witnessing the death spiral of someone losing touch with reality.
CoreyG: What happened with Hugh isn't the issue. Owens then walked into the locker room and threatened other players who had nothing to do with that situation. That's borderline criminal - it's (almost) assault.
Iâ€™m just rejoicing that the Eagles will be paying(after the suspension) to stay home.
Yah. They're paying him so they can trade him in the offseason.
They might recoup some of the signing bonus, actually. I think they can do that.
OK, I don't know where people are getting the idea that Philadelphia can trade Owens. The trade deadline has passed, and by the time the trading period begins again Owens won't be under contract anymore. He's not getting traded.
Kickers jerseys are awesome. Josh Miller was a very popular jersey around Heinz Field before he got cut (atleast popular in the section I sit in) and if he keeps it up i'm seriously considering making my next jersey selection a Jeff Reed one.
I was going to make it a Dan Krieder jersey but I don't think he plays for the Steelers anymore.......well, I mean, he's on the roster in a physical sense, but they aren't using Dan the man.
Oh yeah. If T.O. was this miserable and this much of a jerk in a city that he WANTED to play for and actually FOUGHT to play for what type of distraction would he be if he had to stay in Baltimore with "Coach Buttermaker" all while Anthony Wright and Kyle Bawler were throwing ducks at his ankles.
Actually, that would have been awesome.
#29, since T.O. is a veteran with 4+ years of service his entire base salary for 2005 is guaranteed. That's why the Eagles don't save anything by cutting him now. I wouldn't think any team would trade for him given he'll be a free agent before his option bonus is due. Plus, any team that wants him now is going to insist on a deal where any bonuses are paid out in installments contingent on good behavior, similar to Terry Glenn's deal a few years back.
Some teams will want him because of the numbers he puts up, but it does look like TO has killed his chance of making anything close to the money the Eagles were going to pay him next season, let alone the raise he feels like he earned with the Super Bowl performance. If Owens is among the 20 highest paid WRs in the NFL next year I will be shocked.
MDS: Whoops, you're right. I thought the trading period started before the March 3rd date.
So why aren't the Eagles cutting him? The only thing I can think of is that they hold some hope of convincing him to play next year.
Or they might be asking around, trying to find out if any team is willing to offer draft picks for Owens next year that would be worth the Eagles paying Owens's roster bonus. Unlikely, but possible.
That's what it is. I forgot veteran's salaries are guaranteed. Thanks, Jim A.
So the Eagles are just being a jerk to him, preventing him from getting picked up somewhere else. Wow. They really don't like the guy.
Oh, and james, you're wrong.
The reason the Eagles are down this year is simple. I'm a Penn State fan as well, and only one team I like can be good in any given year.
Serious non- needling question.
Do you think think the Eagles payed Akers and Westbrooke to try and get something positive going?
Thats what I think.
However the evil inside me wants to think that it was just to piss off 81.
Pat - the Eagles aren't cutting T.O. right now for 1 reason only. They don't want him to sign on for the remainder of the season with one of their opponents or potential play-off opponents. If T.O. signed on a team with that the Eagles still have to play I can guarantee he would have a career day just to spite them.
"You want some? Anyone else want some?"
After fighting with someone directly insulting his honor (I don't know what else to call it) he's offering to back it up with anyone else who felt the same way as Douglas. As to whether that constitutes a threat or attack on a teammate, I guess we'll have to agree to differ. After all, they're called "fighting words" for a reason. To lay the blame on the TO for the Douglas's actions seems disingenuous.
They don't cut him now because if they do someone else can sign him. Then they pay TO's salary AND there's a chance he'll be back to play for the other team. Just let him sit so he can't do any more harm than he already has.
RE:#40 Right on! Kickers don't get enough respect. I wear my #2 Akers jersey proud.
All TO does is want to win and accusing him of faking an injury to not play seems like a huge insult to me and Hugh got, or should have gotten had a few of those punches landed, what he deserved.
It's a huge insult to accuse someone of faking an injury when it's pretty clear they're faking an injury. Yeah, right. IIRC, he pulled the same dubious undiagnosable injury claim in training camp, right before the Eagles suspended him the last time. There is plenty of evidence Owens cares about his stats, not so much with the winning.
RE:#46 "Do you think think the Eagles payed Akers and Westbrooke to try and get something positive going?"
I know you didn't ask me, but this is a public forum so I figure I can answer anyway... They do these extensions every year to use up some of the cap space they have sitting around and to lock up good young players for the long term so they don't have to bid for them on the FA market.
SOP for the Eagles, and it's worked quite well.
Uh, I think it might have something to do with the fact that Akers and Westbrook are the two major players whose contracts end soon, and are likely going to cost the most to extend.
RE:#50 "Owens cares about his stats, not so much with the winning"
I don't think it's the stats as much as the money. My perception of TO's preference:
But then again, my perception is just as subjective as yours.
As to whether that constitutes a threat or attack on a teammate, I guess weâ€™ll have to agree to differ.
Actually, I believe the comment was "if any of you say something about me behind my back, I'll handle you the way I did Hugh" which, last time I checked, is a threat.
WRs beating up DE's?????? Welcome to the NFL in 2005
Don't they do this every year? i.e. Go into the middle of the season way under the cap and then use that cap space to sign a few players to long-term contracts that are extremely cap friendly in future years. Isn't the deadline for that type of deal coming up within the next week or two?
Not that they might not have accelerated negotiations to time the announcements near the suspensions. I think Philly management does hate TO that much (partially because he's a jerk and partially because his whining is bad for PR because it draws attention to how cheap they can be with veterans).
I haven't heard anything reliable about what actually happened with the TO-HD throwdown, but I agree with you, ziminy. A defensive lineman (even a retired one) should make short work of a wide receiver. It sounds like the fight was basically a draw, which knocks Hugh Douglas down a couple pegs in my book.
Dear Eagles fans, I told you so! :)
And, BTW, the guy is mentally ill (personality disorder) and will destroy the chemsitry of any team he plays for. He is the WR equivalent of Jeff George.
Thank whatever deity you like he's gone...actually, I knew in my heart of hearts there was no way they could go back to the SB this year, so I've reconciled myself to that. I liken this year to when they imploded the Vet - you have to blow things up to build them over again, although clearly the Eagles aren't in as much trouble as, say, Minnesota. Oh well, my SB dreams will have to wait yet another year....
pat, ray, and others,
Thanks for the info. I was unaware that they pretty much did that every year.
So now can it be said that if T.O had waited he might have gotten paid mid-season.
If so, then although I love that guy, I would have to ridicule him.
Some people might find interesting the article linked to below, from Slate in 2002.
The deadline to put signing/roster bonus money on this year's cap was today. That's why the Eagles got the deals with Westbrook and Akers done now, it has nothing to do with TO except insofar as they might have been thinking about paying TO...which isn't far at all.
This is the best decision they could have made, anyway. I know it's early yet, but Reggie Brown looks like a pretty decent player. And getting him his touches this year can only help his development. In addition, taking TO out of the equation will certainly help Reid maintain a less batshit-crazy Pass/Run ratio. TO was only catching about half the balls coming his way, anyway.
I think Philly management does hate TO that much (partially because heâ€™s a jerk and partially because his whining is bad for PR because it draws attention to how cheap they can be with veterans).
It's been pretty thoroughly documented on this site, and by following the veterans themselves, that the Eagles are not "cheap," in the Bengals/Cardinals sense (that is, they just don't want to pay top dollar to anyone).
I believe the consensus in this forum has been, and I have long noted that, the Eagles are very good at talent evaluation in their veterans, and cut them when they feel the vet will decline in the coming year. See: Hugh Douglas, Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Jeremiah Trotter and Duce Staley (outlier).
They let some other team sign the vet to a mega-bucks FA contract, then when the Vet predictably falls flat on his face, they re-sign him in a couple years to a much more cap-friendly contract (Douglas v2.0,Trotter v2.0 and XP...he was SICK last year).
It has been noted above that Philly could hardly be called stingy; they use their leftover cap to resign the younger vets, and pick up throw-away players in the mid-season, such as Cortez and the punter-of-the-week.
My poor Eagles won't be in the SB this year, but it won't be because they were stingy.
re #46: the deadline for some of a player's money counting towards this year's cap is today, so now is the most cap-savvy time to sign a long contract extension with a player (it might well be the best time, financially, to cut TO in the season, I'm not quite sure how that works). As for the huge hoopla about Westbrook signing all over the Eagles site, well, it's fairly clear why they're doing that; damage limitation, focussing on the positives, and pointing out to TO exactly how much they value everybody else on their team. Look at the publicity linked to on my name to show how everyone in the Eagles organisation are capable of hyping up a player if they want to...
Re: #40 Hey, Kreider was the leading receiver for the Stillers yesterday! 2 catches for 13 yards I think.
Seriously, isn't he doing what he always does--making blocks? Haven't always got the chance to watch the Stillers this year but I haven't noticed any neglect of Kreider.
Rich Eisen just asked Jim Mora Sr. if he thinks T.O. would be a good fit in Atlanta. Mora's response: "If they sign T.O., I'll disown my kid."
First, I would like to say TO is not the Anti-Christ. I believe he is a very competitive person, and plays hard...
...but I've known people like him before. The first insult (real or perceived) turns him into a complete %$#$@! jerk, that is willing to ruin his career to get revenge. He won't change, because he feels justified in his actions. Next year, he go to a new team, do well for a while, until the cycle begins again...
I hadn't seen that particular quote in any of the stories I could find about the fight with Douglas. I can't seem to find one either, can you give me a link to it?
It's sad that the Eagles acted in such a predictable manner--I'm guessing that TO hoped they would, as he obviously has no interest in being with a struggling franchise, or one that isn't paying him what he feels he's worth. This is arguably the quickest way to escape the situation. Now, if they *really* wanted to show him, they'd make him keep playing, with him knowing that it was a hopeless cause. Of course, with his explosive locker-room presence, that would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.
If I were in a similar situation--a job in which I felt I was being financially shafted, with a failing company that wasn't listening to my concerns--I'd quit, too. Of course, I'm not as theatric as TO, so my exit wouldn't be nearly as dramatic.
But how much of his drama-queen nature is justified? Let's see...they brought him in to make a Super Bowl run. He certainly did his part, in that equation. He came back from a horrific injury and had an incredible game, while McNabb fizzled out. And when it became clear that his two main conditions weren't being met--being with a team on the rise, and money--he maybe faked an injury, and generally did things that he had to know would get himself in trouble.
I haven't seen Corey Dillon be bashed all that much for wanting to be on a SB-hopeful team. If people want to bash TO for alleged greed or his passive-aggressive behavior, that's fine by me...but let's not kid ourselves about (what I think is) his main motive. He wants to be on a winning team. We can call that unsportsmanlike or whatever, but, it's no different from what normal people do every day--they leave things that are failing and go to ones that are succeeding. Could he have done it in a more mature way? Absolutely. But after the way he's been disrespected by the Eagles, I can't blame him.
Click on my name for an article about TO...
#67: I saw the "Omen" movies, and ... the Anti-Christ was very competitive and played about as hard as you could get. :) But I agree with your assessment.
And I suspect that if Brett Favre really were the Eagles' QB, Owens would be busy attacking him and the team would be 4-4.
It's unfortunate for the player, the team, the league, and its fans that such a highly gifted individual is unable to do the one thing for which he is so obviously well-suited.
But choices were made and there are always consequences.
It's trite but there are no winners in this situation. It's disappointing that folks seem happy about this mess.
One of the reasons I really struggle with this item is that I live by one golden rule when it comes to pro football: If Chris Berman is FOR something, I'm AGAINST it.
It has served me well for many years.
#69: "If I were in a similar situationâ€“a job in which I felt I was being financially shafted, with a failing company that wasnâ€™t listening to my concernsâ€“Iâ€™d quit, too."
Except he, in effect, got himself fired, a mechanism known well in the working world to those who want to give the impression that they are being persecuted, and just can't get a fair shake. It happens in factories, it happens in brokerages, it happens in hospitals, and there's no reason to believe it doesn't happen in the National Football League. Mr. Owens, you're just a disgruntled worker--no more, no less--and your employer has called you on it. Feel free to stand in line to file for your commensurate unemployment compensation.
Think they'll re-sign him?
Basilius, By "they", do you mean the Niners?
No Philadelphia "mob" is going to harm TO if he walks around Philadelphia.
We are justly amazed by the magical season he helped us have last year, and incredibly disappointed by what a stupid head case he still proved himself to be, over money he was probably going to get but now will never see.
The feeling is not one of anger, but of the disappointment a parent feels upon seeing their child lie to them, or get caught for petty shoplifting. You had hoped they would be better than that.
This is a lesson in amazing stupidity. I can't think of anything like it since the Kyle Turley case.
Will TO play again? He's going to have to swallow a lot of pride to go to an organization like Oakland or Cleveland that is going to pay him perhaps 1/10th of what Philly would have.
I hadnâ€™t seen that particular quote in any of the stories I could find about the fight with Douglas.
I'll have to search around for it. There were no exact quotes about exactly what Owens said, just paraphrasing. But the "I'll handle you the same way I handled Douglas" was definitely part of it.
Douglas is a retired DE. I doubt he's staying in playing shape, as he's never intending to play again.
In related news: Eagles done for year.
Re: the Owens quote.
It was quoted by Mark Eckel in the Trenton Times, where he broke the story.
AFAIK, it's not available online. I've linked the site where Eckel's story archive is supposed to be, but no stories showed up in any browser to which I have access.
Don't totally write the Eagles off yet. I suppose it depends on your definition of "done for the year", but I'm still confident they'll make the playoffs. Successful enough for this Eagles fan.
By the way, RE:#69 "a struggling franchise"
I'm sure there are a lot of franchises that would love to "struggle" the way the Eagles have struggled recently. Ask the Patriots how horrible it is to have one off-season. You're free to be giddy in your optomisim about the Eagles' demise, but forgive the rest of us if we don't give up on them yet.
i never said that the fighting was ok, but it is nowhere near criminal. now if he actually hit douglas and did some bodily harm to him, then by all means lets look to the law. but for a few nonlanding swings to take place from a guy with a fragile psyche who was tired of supposedly hearing people talk behind his back is not all that big of deal. its a locker room full of men, which means a lot of egos will be jacked up. and im pretty sure that douglas wasnt all that innocent in this situation. and the whole challenge to the team was more or less him just blowing of some steam from the previous scuffle rather than him actually wanting to fight everyone. though i am curious on why everyone in the locker room automatically assumed that TO issued that challenge to mcnabb. it seems to me that there is more to this than anyone is wanting to admit
it just doesnt sound right to me that TO just hates mcnabb for no reason. theres something missing from this whole debacle. like a missing piece from a jigsaw puzzle. i think once someone finds this out, we can all see what actually happened, whether it was TO hating mcnabb for no reason, or maybe mcnabb doing something to piss him off or something else entirely
but for a few nonlanding swings to take place from a guy with a fragile psyche who was tired of supposedly hearing people talk behind his back is not all that big of deal.
No, it is borderline criminal. It's debatably assault (not battery, because he didn't hit him). You don't have to actually land a punch to break the law.
Plus keep in mind that the Eagles had 5/8 games on the road in the first half. In the second half, they've got 5/8 games at home. Plus they've got Arizona and Green Bay, so that's two wins right there.
I had read that McNabb/Eagles said they didn't need TO to get to the SuperBowl when he was injured and took offense at that. TO then played an amazing game on an injured ankle only to have McNabb choke it up in the SB. Then McNabb not supporting TO's quest for a new contract didn't help matters any, and now McNabb/Eagles/Reid are stinking it up again this year (relative to past performances) and he wants out. Who knows.
if douglas didnt agree to fight, then you could charge him with simple assault. it would be hard to convict him, but you could. then again, whos to say that douglas didnt want to fight. do you really think players in the locker room would sell out someone they liked for someone that they didnt?
I truly enjoy all the NFC East fans coming out to celebrate their team in the wake of the TO announcement.
It only proves how terrified they have all been about the Eagles over the past few years. Dallas, NY, Washington...we've been eating your livers with a nice Chianti for a few seasons now. You'd love to believe it is over but I'm not so sure.
thats where i believe this whole thing started. TO gets injured and all the fans start to worry, then the team in order to seem better than they were without TO say that they can win without him, and they do even though they played inferior teams in the playoffs. we also must not forget that during this time period, TO is hopping up and down on a broken leg/ankle pumping the crowd and team up. but anyway, he comes back and plays out of his mind, but then because they lose not because of his efforts, but because mcnabb obviously got tired or injured or something because he wasnt right at the end of the game and he and freddie mitchell mention something was wrong, mcnabb says he was fine and reid says that he was fine. if this were the case, then why was he clutching his sternum and was always hunched over like he was having trouble breathing? alas, because mcnabb is the face of the franchise, everyone protects him and subsequently goes after owens. then when owens wants some guaranteed money because he is getting older and knows that more than likely the eagles would cut him after the season because they wanted to save money as usual, everyone says that hes just money hungry and cares only about himself. if this were the case, he wouldnt have come back to play in the super bowl and risk the rest of his career AND all that money that he supposedly wants. now with this situation, it looks like someone doesnt want TO around. just my opinion though. i could be wrong. then again, i could be right, but we will never know until all parties sit down and reveal everything that went on.
Thank the lord that the Eagles had TO in the playoffs last year. Without his hopping up and down on the SIDELINES, we never would have reached the Super Bowl.
It is a good thing we played inferior teams in the playoffs. Of course, you never actually specify what the playoff opponents were inferior to but all the better to make your vague, useless point.
You could be wrong but (I love it) you could be right. Now that is a well constructed argument!
werent the chances of T.O. getting cut for salary reasons in the offseason decent (or am I thinking after the 2006 season)?
The real problem is that he was fighting with all the guys on my fantasy team.
#81 (Josh) i>it seems to me that there is more to this than anyone is wanting to admit
Yesterday someone printed a McNabb quote from when TO got hurt last year, saying basically "we have won without him before, we can win without him now." That may have been what ticked him off.
I think there are exactly three things Owens cares about. In no particular order: Money, his image, and getting a Super Bowl ring. Beyond that he doesn't give a f--- about anything.
Just because I've seen it brought up several times, assuming that PA law is anything close to NY law, there is nothing "criminal" about what TO did, unless you think there's something "criminal" about speeding tickets.
In NY, to be charged with the lowest form of assault (Assault 3), you need to cause "serious" physical pain and injuries. This has been defined through case law as basically meaning you have to break someone's bones. If I beat you sensless, but manage to avoid breaking any of your bones while doing it, the most you can charge me with (at least on the assault scale) is harassment. In this case it seems that Douglas was helping to escalate the situation with TO, or at the very least doing absolutely nothing to diffuse it, so if you want to lay a harrassment charge on TO, you have to lay one on Douglass as well. Since it occurred in private, both people were willing combatants, and no one was injured, this won't happen.
As far as the "threat" goes (this would be a harassment charge again), he wasn't singling anyone out. Its the equivalent of me saying "I'm going to shoot the next person that comes on my porch." I can't suddently face 290 million charges of harassment simply because everyone in America could theoretically come on to my porch and therefore I'm threatening them. If TO had said "Hey Akers, see what I did to Douglas? You're next." That would be an actionable threat.
You might be able to hang a "disorderly conduct" charge on TO which essentially boils down to doing something you shouldn't in a place you shouldn't have done it. This is a violation (as serious as a speeding ticket). TO would be fined approximately $100.
If I may quote James Hartigan from Sin City, "This is nothing more than a price I already told myself I'd pay."
The Eagles rolled the dice with a truly elite talent. It got them within a hair's breadth of a Superbowl win. Now they endure a sour year. The key is that their eternally looking-ahead FO planned for just this contingency, creating a point in the contract after two years when they could cut TO with no appreciable cap hit, just in case he didn't work out. Now they rebuild (and by rebuild I mean a whole lot more than the WR corps, starting with the offensive line), and next season they start anew in full force. The Eagles aren't going away just yet.
I agree with #34, #47, #53.
And I can understand TO. You enter in a locker room, a guy who don't even play, is telling everybody you're faking an injury. Douglas was obviously looking for a fight. The Eagles' organization (or McNabb) doesn't want TO around any more.
Did douglas has sanctions ?
And all that stuff is just part of the show. Trotter fought before the first game and costed them this game and was just fined.
TO didn't kill anybody, he had a dispute in a locker room of an agressive sport, wasn't even disrespectful with the fans, Douglas was disrespectful, not TO.
I think TO is a scapegoat in this story.
I hope he will rebound with the 'Skins or the 'boys or the G-men.
TO's contract was structured to allow him to be cut in any year of the contract with positive effects on the cap (his salary was always larger than the unprorated signing bonus). This was an out for disciplinary matters, not a plan to terminate Owens early. The Eagles and McNabb and Reid wanted it to work with TO, and gave it a lot more chances than most people would have.
"but then because they lose not because of his efforts, but because mcnabb obviously got tired or injured or something because he wasnt right at the end of the game"
They lost the game because McNabb threw two picks in the redzone that terminated ealier scoring drives, and allowed the Patriots to score more points on them than anyone but two teams last season. At the end of the game, the Eagles were getting plays off about 10 seconds quicker per play on their last TD drive than on previous ones. They moved carefully to ensure the score and then tried to put themselves in a position to recover the ball as soon as possible, which they failed on the onside kick but recovered after a 3-0. However, they failed to field the punt, and this backed them too far up. Game over. McNabb's play at the end of the game had nothing to do with their loss.
Ignoring Owens as a person, isn't it a shame that a football talent as great as Owens, perhaps the only person who could ever dream of challenging Jerry Rice for some of his records, is pissing away his career like this? Amazingly, Owens was on pace for an even better season statistically this year than last year. He was on pace for 1750 yards and 14 TD's, and a probable career total of 15,000+ yards and 150+ TD's.
This is too funny. The Eagles suck. The team is in turmoil.
And they hate their coach!
RE:#89 "werent the chances of T.O. getting cut for salary reasons in the offseason decent (or am I thinking after the 2006 season)?"
TO's contract has a sizable roster bonus due after the 2005 season, which means the Eagles can cut him after this year with relatively low penalties.
Obviously, no one will ever truely know what would have happened if TO had behaved and played well with the team this year. However, if TO of 2005 had been like the TO of 2004, why in the world would the Eagles have cut him? They've got plenty of cap room either way, and he's an incredible talent who (living in the fantasy world of TO 2004) has a great rapport with McNabb and puts out incredible production on the field. As was stated above, he was on track for an even bigger year in 2005 than in 2004, so there's no reason to assume his skills were flagging.
On top of that, the Eagles (as admitted by everyone) are one of the best teams at planning and managing the cap in the league. They certainly planned their 2006 cap with the TO roster bonus included. The Eagles as an organization have not made a salary cap cut in several years. Why would they suddenly start now with one of the best players in the league?
So why would the cut him for salary cap reasons when they don't have salary cap problems? It just doesn't make sense. Too bad TO didn't see it that way, too, or all of this could have been avoided.
there is nothing â€œcriminalâ€? about what TO did, unless you think thereâ€™s something â€œcriminalâ€? about speeding tickets.
I said "borderline" criminal.
Incidentally, last time I checked, assault was intent to cause harm, and battery was causing harm. I don't see how assault can be defined as breaking someone's bones when the charge has absolutely nothing to do with actually causing harm.
Comparisons arenâ€™t that far off. After the super bowl they went downhill fast. ARe the wheels spinning of the bus?
I don't think so. The Eagles are in much better sal;ary cap space than the Bucs were, and the Eagles did not give 4 draft choices for Reid. Plus, Reid is not going to get into a pissing match with the personnel guy, um, himself.
It is about the "reasonable apprehension of imminent harm". In NY, the courts have said you aren't reasonably afraid until your bones are broken (or there's a weapon involved, but I dont' think that's the case here). Part of this is because of the grading of the crime and the fact that there are other charges beneath it that lesser threats can be charged as and part of it is just arbitrary line drawing. Maybe PA law defines things much differently, I really have no idea.
That the collective mind of the Eagles coaching staff and front office could not manage this situation in such a way to put the best players on the field is a damning indictment of the organization. Essentially firing a disgruntled worker is taking the easy way out. It gives the team an excuse not to perform for the rest of the year (we would win, but our QB is playing hurt, our best receiver is collecting severance pay and bought season tickets for the Falcons, and we pass four out of every five plays).
If Andy Reid (or whoever really made the decision) wanted to prove that he was the boss, he did that. Good for him. He also proved to me that NBA coaches are head and shoulders above NFL coaches in their ability to manage people.
TO is the Dennis Rodman of the NFL--one of the best ever at his position, but "difficult." The Eagles knew he was difficult when they signed him. Instead of being rational, and expecting him to behave as he had for the previous seven years, they put the burden on a thirty-year-old man to change his habitual behavior. Perhaps, instead of assuming that winning would keep him happy and quiet, they should have looked for ways to use TO's ego for the good of the team (I can think of several ways right now). It is a disservice to the rest of that team and to the fans of the team that such a uniquely talented player is unable to contribute anymore.
Johnnyel, after Rodman lost his mind in Detroit, he was essentially uncoachable, except when he was on the same team as Michael Jordan, a unique combination of unprecedented talent and the soul of a tactically ruthless assassin. Phil Jackson is a very good coach, but once Jordan figured things out, he kept other players in line, both in games and in practice. There is no comparable player in the NFL, and probably cannot be, given the specialized nature of the sport.
Jackson went on to great success in LA, but we eventually saw his ability to manage jerks had it's limits.
This one incident isn't what got TO benched. It goes back to last year.
*He hates McNabb because when TO hurt is leg, McNabb said the team could win without him. (TO's own words - they never said they would win it for me).
* The expert thinking was that after last year, TO probably would have got a redone contract. But TO took it to the media for face time destroying any hope of a deal.
* Thoughout the whole season he has been bashing his QB. How can you as a coach or an org allow someone to bash your fran QB? McNabb is the face of the Eagles. He also holds himself with class.
* TO also doesn't talk to anyone including his QB. Makes it hard to develop a game plan.
* It's was noted in SF that unless you got TO involved in the game early and often he would lose interest. Look at how many passes the Eagles forced to him this year.
* Finally, all he had to do was apologize to the team and McNabb for this latest incident (the fight wasn't an issue). He would not.
You can't let someone bash everything you have build over the years. All the credability and class of the org.
Are the Eagles worse talent wise without TO? Of course. But are they a better team? I would say yes.
(Oh and for TO fans, alot of people feel while TO's Superbowl performs was great, that the Eagles probably would have done better without him. Even that was all about the spotlight for him.)
I'll take Marvin Harrison, or even some like Hines Ward that wanted a new contract but showed up to play for it.
I can hardly believe it, but it's not over yet. TO has made a public apology and plea to return to the team (link on sig).
As an Eagles fan I'm incredibly conflicted. I guess I'll just have to wait and watch the train wreck to see how it turns out.
Here it is in it's entirety.
"Okay, uh first I would like to uhhh..this is killing me. I want to apologize to the fans, I am sorry you didn't get to see me dance on Sunday. My teammates hey sometimes I get so busy telling the truth that everyone gets hurt you know. Donovan, I am sorry that I said you throw like a girl and that I wish we still had A.J. Feeley. Hugh Douglas, I am sorry that you head-butted my fist. Trotter, sorry that you keep defending me and then I make you look like an ass. Cleveland, sorry you were right I do have B.O. Andy Reid I promise never to make another Man-titties joke about you where you can hear it, that was insensitive. As a token of my sincere apology I mailed you a gift certificate to White Castle. Joe Banner I wanna say sorry for sitting in your Lexus with no pants on, I didn't think anyone saw me. Jeffy Lurie, please forgive me for grabbing your wife's donkey and for calling you Jeffy. In short I just want everyone to know that I am a team player and I am worth about 8.5 million a year. If there is any way we can work this out so that I can keep my signing bonus but not have to play for it, well then I am willing. Thank you thats all.
Terrell T.O. Owens"
See, it's things like this that make TO a jackass! Even in his apologies, the's taking shots at the Eagles!
There's no way they're taking him back now!
Who sits naked in another dude's car? That's just wrong!
I hope the eagles loose every game. How can you blame a season on one person? I thought the quarterback was the leader. McNabb is just envy of T.O. If I was T.O I would be upset to. They gave Westbrook more money? He is not even living up to their (EAGLES) expectation. He didnâ€™t show up for summer camp! T.O. did? I was watching â€œROMEâ€? on ESPN, and he stated â€œT.O got what he deserves and for anyone out there looking for someone to blame you canâ€™t blame the MEDIAâ€?. Everything is the MEDIAâ€™S fault from 2-pac being killed to Bush getting back in office. T.O. will rise again. I am just concern that he will become soft in fear of the MEDIA. Yes his apology was sincere. This is his lively-hood. If I could talk to T.O, I would tell him just what my Mother told me growing up & her words have helped me to survive this long! She said â€œson remember this you have two things against in this world. YOU ARE BLACK AND YOU ARE A MANâ€?!!!!!!!!
Loose every game? Must be a cowboys fan. Jim Everitt shoulda bitch slapped Rome to death when he had the chance.
I never said that it did much, but still, to see him out there at least trying to pump up the crowd up with an injury that severe says something about his desire to help the team. if he were so concerned about his image, then he wouldnt have been jumping up like a baffoon. and are you telling me that the vikings, who got into the playoffs because no one else wanted to play in them, were a worthy opponent? or the falcons, who last year, even though they went 11-5(at least thats what i remember, i dont really pay attention to anyone but the stillers), were ranked 19th in DVOA, behind such teams as houston, detroit, and the aforementioned wikings? the eagles on the other hand were 1st in DVOA most of the year, but thanks to the benching of everyone in the last few games because they had already clinched home field and a bye, slipped to 4th, still way ahead of the teams that they played against. sorry if i failed you by not actually point out how your playoff opponents were inferior. next time ill do a better job pointing everything out.
re#107 and #108, that pretty much sums it up. The truth hurts, and so does laughing like a maniac.
Oh, and to the poster of #103, I think you're not thinking your analogy through. Why don't you ask your current boss if firing an admittedly talented individual who's been whining about not being paid enough, swearing at his immediate managers, has been through a disciplinary process over that issue, and then talked to a national media outlet about how the company is second rate, and has then capped it all by getting into a fight with another member of the organisation would be bad people management? What message would that send to the rest of your staff, exactly?
Why don't we just give him the Keep Choppin' Wood award now?
Last year, when Keyshawn Johnson won this award, I wrote, "Football Outsiders readers agree â€” It is worse to torpedo your team with a bad attitude than with poor performance." This year, Football Outsiders readers agree â€” It is worse to torpedo your team with no performance than with poor performance.
Owens... has now done both.
T.O. and the Jets ...
Look at it this way: you are thinking about hiring an employee who has a history of getting into verbal fights with quarterbacks and offensive coordinators. He admits to it in the interview process. His references verify the behavior. You hire him anyway.
That string of actions puts the responsibility for the situation on the manager, not the employee. A manager has the responsibility of facilitating team and individual success. When hiring a brilliant but difficult person, a manager (or organization) must come up with a strategy to deal with situations like a cursing an immediate supervisor.
In the case of TO, preventative action should have taken place. Stroking his ego is not that difficult, and it would have lead to better results. Some people are only motivated by external praise, and I'd say it would be a small price to pay for consistent All-Pro performance.
As far as cursing at the OC? What did Erickson do? Oh yeah, suspended him for a game when he cursed at Knapp on the sideline. What effect did that have? The situation deteriorated. Mama always told me that insanity can be defined as trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
You're right, of course, about the recent behavior being unacceptable, and if it occurred in a vacuum, I'd fire him. However, the recent events occurred in the context of a refusal to deal, which is the right of any employee in good standing, public accusations of injury-faking (which is damaging to the reputation and future earning power of the player), and a previous suspension under dubious circumstances. That context somewhat mitigates my distate for TO's public antics.
Ray, it will be fascinating to see where this train wreck goes next year. The TO press conference was orchestrated by his agent, who gave him the script, and then told him to shut up, with the agent fielding the questions. If it was sincere in order to get back with the Eagles, it would have been in Philly, not on TO's front lawn. It is clearly just the agent building up an arguement to shorten the unpaid suspension period from the 4 weeks once they get in front of an arbitrator.
It also has a secondary purpose, so when shopping TO in the off season, the agent can say that TO has changed and you can tell your fan base that. Look, I can make him apologize when everyone knows he doesn't mean it (what he really means is in #107).
You know that somebody is going to give him a contract. What this whole episode has done is make sure that the contract is going to be below what you might otherwise consider as market value for a player of that caliber.
Johnnyel, I have to ruefully agree you have a point, in that the Eagles (and fans like me!)certainly should have known what they were getting with Owens. still, there does have to be that line that no-one can cross, doesn't there?
That said, I think there might just be a little more to the Eagles' decision-making process here than Owens (shock horror, Owens not the only factor!). Given the decent performance of the Eagles' other receivers, not least Reggie Brown, in the Redskins game, I'd have to say that a certain amount of confidence in the rest of their receiving corps must have factored in. Perhaps if they hadn't drafted Reggie Brown, they'd have sucked it up with Owens for a little longer, and I see the suspension comes after Reggie's had half a season to learn the system. I'm certainly expecting Mcnabb to spread things around a lot more for the rest of the season, which might, perversely, make things easier for the team, stopping defences from keying in on one guy, and giving more opportunity to guys like Billy Mcmullen, who's flashed potential but not had too many chances to show it.
Oh, and we re-signed Chad Lewis! everything's fine again!
after further review, I will admit to clutching at straws over Chad Lewis..
Johnnyel in 116:
That string of actions puts the responsibility for the situation on the manager, not the employee. A manager has the responsibility of facilitating team and individual success. When hiring a brilliant but difficult person, a manager (or organization) must come up with a strategy to deal with situations like a cursing an immediate supervisor.
No, that's just not the case. TO still has to take responsibility for his actions. The Eagles willingness to take a chance on him does not let him off the hook. His behavior was bad, period. You can bet your boots that TO told them that he'd change and that he just wanted to be on a winner. The Eagles took a chance and TO's behavior matched his previous actions, not his words at the time.
However, the Eagles mgmt does bear the responsibility for the risks they ran in terms of it's effect on the team overall. But that's completely different than what you said above. The Eagles suspending TO is them taking responsibility for his effect on the team. They took a gamble with him and it didn't work out, so they're doing damage control, which is actually respecting the other members of the team.
I think the definition of good management is not that they never make mistakes, but that they deal with them when the problems become clear. I think the Eagles did that.
speak of criminal, put me in front of T.O. right now and give me a gun: problem solved.
I say, steady on...
Is Johnson capable of NFL brilliance? Burst will ultimately tell the tale.
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties