Articles from around the Web
PDF NOW DISCOUNTED
Click here to buy PDF version.
Click here to buy PDF version
Like our page on Facebook and get Football Outsiders links directly in your Facebook feed.
Official Account: @fboutsiders
Scott Kacsmar: @FO_ScottKacsmar
Ben Muth: @FO_WordofMuth
Aaron Schatz: @FO_ASchatz
Vincent Verhei: @FO_VVerhei
-- plus --
Ian Boyd: @Ian_A_Boyd
Bill Connelly: @SBN_BillC
Cian Fahey: @Cianaf
Brian Fremeau: @bcfremeau
Tom Gower: @ThomasGower
Bryan Knowles: @BryKno
Rivers McCown: @RiversMcCown
Chad Peltier: @CGPeltier
Andrew Potter: @BigHairyAndy
Rob Weintraub: @robwein
Carl Yedor: @CarlYedor61
13 Oct 2006
The politics of football...
The politics of injured reseeeeeeerve...
Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 13 Oct 2006
31 comments, Last at
16 Oct 2006, 8:45pm by
I'm not going to be one of those guys who does the first thing.
GB could use some secondary help.
What do you think the chances of him returning to Philly are, if for no other reason than he's listed as 6'1" 200lbs? That gives him 3"-4" on Philly's other 4 DBs and 20-30lbs on Hanson and Wynn. And Andy has a track record of bringing back guys for a second tour.
Hands off Green Bay, Troy is coming home. Bye, Bye Toastolio.
I saw this article last night, and was surprised he hasn't been snatched up by Philly yet this morning.
If Troy is still comfortable at corner, I'll be surprised if he's not in Philly this time next week.
Come on Chargers....
I don't see why the Pats don't make a run. They have a thing for over-rated, injury-prone CBs
I think it's an NFL rule the Pats can't go after him until he has his retirement party.
If Troy is still comfortable at corner, Iâ€™ll be surprised if heâ€™s not in Philly this time next week.
So instead of scheming to protect a short, fast corner, now we have to scheme to protect a tall, slow one?
Forgive me if I don't see that as an improvement.
Unfortunately, the DB Vincent would probably be best to replace, in my opinion, is Michael Lewis. And I don't see that happening.
If Vincent has a problem with the way the Buffalo front office treated him, he should complain to the president of the NFL Player's Association. Oh, wait...
Seriously, isn't it a little dangerous to play roster games with Vincent? I know his status with the Player's Association shouldn't warrant any special treatment, but it probably does. He is one player that has Gene Upshaw's ear and hence direct input on the CBA negotiations, and he's more likely to stress issues that he feels are unfair. Do you want to give him ammunition that might make trouble at the next CBA negotiation?
Also, a question. Can the Bills now re-sign Vincent? Is this a way of dodging the "out-for-the-season" requirement of IR? I seem to remember the Pats playing that game a few years ago. They had a FB on the roster that got an injury that was expected to sideline him for about half the season (Fred McCrary, I think? Or maybe it was even Patric Pass). They put him on IR to free up a roster spot and signed someone else. Then they reached an injury settlement with him, released him, and a week or so later re-signed him to the active roster. What are the rules concerning these games?
I was assuming that he'd be a role player that was only played on bigger receivers instead of trying to cover the likes of a Burress or Toomer with one of the two leprechauns.
Didn't this happen like two weeks ago?
Also, a question. Can the Bills now re-sign Vincent?
No. There's only one of two possible reasons this happened.
1) Marv Levy is an idiot, and doesn't understand the rules of minor injured reserve. There is absolutely zero benefit to placing Vincent on IR-minor over IR. The drawback is that you give another team a chance to improve their roster and/or gain information about your defense.
2) The Bills liked Vincent, but needed the roster space, but in a gesture of good will to Vincent, they allowed him to find another team later in the season.
Considering Vincent didn't offer any complimentary words to the Bills front office, I'm guessing it's #1.
Is this message understood?
(kudos to Bill for the Re-Flex reference!)
talk about your one-hit wonders ...
I was assuming that heâ€™d be a role player that was only played on bigger receivers instead of trying to cover the likes of a Burress or Toomer with one of the two leprechauns.
I know. The game hurts to remember. Trust me, I know. But after thinking about it a lot, you do realize that the Eagles FO made the right decision, and just got unlucky. Had they done something to prevent it, we would've been calling that a dumb move anyway, unless Hood got hurt. And you can't expect that.
Think about it: Hanson is likely a better nickel DB than Vincent would be. He's faster, and you don't want a third receiver with fresh legs coming in and going all Greg Lewis on your nickel DB's ass.
The only time Vincent becomes an advantage over Hanson is if Hanson is forced into the starting lineup. But that means that you're weakening the team you expect to play with (i.e. starting corner not injured) to strengthen a team you're hoping not to play with (i.e. starting corner injured).
Now, saying that, I'll say this: it's entirely possible the Eagles bring back Vincent, and cut Roper, and carry an extra DB over the original number. They won't cut Hanson for Vincent. But the question then becomes who to deactivate to get Vincent into the active lineup?
Diane, did you edit your post? (and if so, how?). I could've sworn it just read: "kudos to Bill for the Reflex reference" a few minutes ago...
And yes, everyone older than 10 in the 80s gets it.
umm ... no ... i didn't edit it ...
Re 11: That was Larry Centers. The difference being that they did not put him on IR, but rather released him with an injury settlement.
The main reason the Bills didn't do that was because he's already guaranteed a pretty large salary (2.5 million) this season, would have had to pay him a sum above and beyond that for the injury settlement, then pay him whatever the terms of the contract they resigned him to, essentially paying him 3 times for this season, when they really didn't want to pay him the 2.5 mil in the first place. Centers was making vet minimum with the pats, so they could afford to pay him more to keep him available.
I don't think there are injury settlements for players like Vincent, whose entire year salary was guaranteed after week 1. You only get injury settlements if your yearly salary isn't guaranteed.
And I don't think you have to pay players with guaranteed salaries twice if you cut them and resign them, so I don't think that applies either.
Sigh. Well, Ko, time to step it up buddy. Losing Vincent sucks, even if he hasn't played this year because of the injury. Talk about a locker room presence. I'll try to see if I can find the link of the video clip on the Bills site about Nate Clements regularly picking his brain and doing extra workout time with him to learn.
I was actually 5 when the 80's ended - the reason I know the song is because of the endless ads I'd see for an 80's compilation featuring the song.
Now, saying that, Iâ€™ll say this: itâ€™s entirely possible the Eagles bring back Vincent, and cut Roper, and carry an extra DB over the original number. They wonâ€™t cut Hanson for Vincent. But the question then becomes who to deactivate to get Vincent into the active lineup?
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that they bring in Troy and drop Joselio (although Wynn may be a different story). I was thinking that they could sign him in addition to the current DB roster and then play the matchup game depending on size/speed of the opposing WRs.
Wynn hasn't played that poorly has he? I personally like the kid. My previous post not withstanding, I can see the Eagles adding him and cutting another position. Secondary depth is the most glaring weakness the Birds have.
Wynn hasnâ€™t played that poorly has he?
Wynn shall never be forgiven for his performance in the Super Bowl. It's one of the Eagles Fan Ten Commandments.
Plus he was cut earlier this year by Philly, so they obviously don't think too highly of him.
I could see the Pats having Vincent come down for an interview and workout. They definitely have a thing for late year defensive players and they still have some questions/depth issues at DB.
With Corey Ivy out for a while, I am afraid that Ozzie Newsome will scratch his Carter/Sanders itch again and try to pickup Vincent as a nickel man.
There's one reason the Patriots will never bring in Troy Vincent:
His agent is Tom Cordon.
And now another cornerstone of my Madden 2006 fantasy draft teams gets cut by his real team.
Hear Ye, Hear Ye:
Troy Vncent is a Washington Redskin.
He made the biggest catch of the playoffs so far, but Green Bay's tight end had a lot of bad plays against Dallas too.
See All XP | NFL XP | College XP
© Football Outsiders, Inc. // Site powered by Stein-Wein // Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties