About time!

Oh, and first!

Ironically, he could wind up in Philly. The Eagles are real thin at DB with Hood and Sheppard missing the Green Bay game and Dawkins and Lewis playing hurt. Carroll is likely better than Hanson, Wynn or Dustin Fox.

Praise the lord!
Does the game charting project include such stats as "needless holding" or "egregious pi?"
Seriously, every decent play Carroll made during his tenure was more than offset by major, disgusting penalties. The guy has great speed, but you wouldn't know it by the way he got torched repeatedly over the past two seasons.

Dawkins isn't hurt. He had to be listed last week since he missed a practice, but he's fine.

#2:

I was about to say something along those lines, but there is a good chance that Sheppard could be back against Dallas, and I don't think the Eagles are going to cut anyone to make room for Ahmad Carrol to compete for #4 CB after Hood returns as well.

Yeah, this one smacks of a rookie coach trying to prove a point. I would wager that plenty of talented youngsters have looked not-so-good at this point in their careers, yet have gone on to develop into okay players. What's to be gained in cutting the guy outright? Bill Parcells does it in training camp to scrubs and crappy kickers, most likely for the sake of motivation and because he understands the "replacement player" concept. But cutting a young first-round pick in mid-season just seems amateurish and short-sighted.

For future reference, I'm filing this one under my drawer marked "Which NFC North team made the worst coaching hire in 2006?" It's gonna be fun to look back at all the clippings come January.

They had to cut him. After the torching Greg Lewis and Reggie Brown gave him last night, there was nothing left but a pile of ashes to be swept up off the field at the Linc.

Let that be a lesson to you all! An Inanimate Carbon Rod burns!

Carroll has indeed been awful. This is not a snap judgment. He is one of the most penalized DBs, despite being a nickel back and not solely a starter. He has been an ineffective player for three years. He probably is more talented than most other available players, but his lack of improvement over the course of three years coupled with a combative attitude sealed his fate in GB. Sometimes intelligence on the field is more important than eye-popping physical ability.

I'd love it if the Eagles picked him up, if only because of the potential cosmic symmetry of a oft-penalized player for Green Bay becoming a top corner in Philly.

Ahmad Carroll has three assets on a football field: he is strong, he is tough, and he relishes contact. For a cornerback those are positives.

But what abou the speed some may ask. Well, Carroll has "run in a straight line" speed. But as shown last night he gets beat deep regularly. I don't know if it's from what some have termed "stiff hips" or what but Carroll simply doesn't translate his run in shorts speed to the playing field.

Others have mentioned the penalties. To make it simple he earned, and I do mean EARNED, the nickname "Grabby Smurf". Sherman had him practice in boxing gloves last season. Didn't deter him from making the same mistakes.

It's very possible that with a different (better?) coaching staff Carroll can have a real career. He clearly has the physical skills.

But note that even in college he hardly ever intecepted passes (4 in 29 career starts). And it is common knowledge that along with being testy (he got into a huge brawl with a teammate last season) Carroll isn't that bright. As in not bright even by pro football standards.

What I do know is that with the exception of Kampmann and Barnett not a single Sherman draftee is starting for GB. And that's from four years of being GM. The best players on the team are still from the Ron Wolf regime.

That's butt ugly.

So when folks mock Green Bay let's try to remember where the blame REALLY needs to be assigned for the time being.

My mistake. Center Scott Wells was drafted by Sherman.

I can't say it's too surprising. He has the physical ability (as was seen even in the game last night, he's an excellent open field tackler, and does have good speed). Sadly, I think he's just plain too stupid. It's not rocket science, but he appeared to not have enough brain power to accept any coaching, or to stop doing the same stupid things over, and over, and OVER again. Kind of like Marty Schottenheimer :)

Jay B.:

He can't possibly be worse than Dustin Fox.

Is he deceptively fast?

(OK, that's getting old.)

Seriously, I wouldn't mind the Eagles picking him up, at least as insurance.

he's deceptively slow

It is hard to believe that he's so awful that cutting him immediately is the only recourse... they're not going to sign somebody new, are they? So why not just keep him and not play him except when necessary? Aren't they just letting someone else get a mediocre player?

Re: 4 "Dawkins isn’t hurt. He had to be listed last week since he missed a practice, but he’s fine."

I know he played and he's tough and all, but after the recent articles (in PFP 2006 and on Fox) about concussions, I doubt that he's really fine. He missed less that a week. Course, I feel the same about Chad Johnson, and he was crazy enough to begin with.

I was going to make the same point. I've played with a concussion and, trust me, he played hurt. I wish the NFL had a rule that players have to sit out the next game after a concussion, but I'm sure that would just mean more guys would lie about concussions.

Re: 18

I think it would make them lie, but what else can you do?

I vaguely remember something about Roethlisberger refusing to wear a helmet that can help cut down on concussions, because it impacted his vision, or something. If they won't wear helmets that can help them, they certainly won't always tell the truth.

BadgerT 1000 I couldn't agree more. Sherman's reign as GM was spectacularly bad. Not only drafts, but free agents... Mark Roman, Joe Johnson (I believe he was acquired under sherman). Awful. Its too bad, because I don't think he was a bad coach, but as a GM, he's set the team back a few years anyway.

Am I the only one who sees Carroll wearing a Patriots uni in two weeks?

RE 21:

Nope. It's time for the annual waiver-wire scour in NE.

Before I began to post my own comments I saw a poster list all of the players still on the roster from Ron Wolf versus Mike Sherman's drafts. The imbalance that exists NOW is even more striking. Think about that for a moment. Ron Wolf left after the 2000 season. 2000!! And yet there are more starters from HIS drafts then Sherman's picks.

Donald Driver
Chad Clifton
Mark Tauscher
William Henderson (until last game)
Bubba Franks
KGB

Mike Sherman did trade for Al Harris. But Sherman also alienated Mike McKenzie leading to his trade making that a wash.

And what about letting Josh Bidwell walk leading to trading UP in the THIRD ROUND to grab BJ Sander (punter)?

The signing of Joe Johnson killed the salary cap for several years. And this after folks REPEATEDLY warned him about Johnson's physical problems.

He did draft Javon Walker and Nick Barnett. But unlike Wolf his later round drafting was HORRIBLE. AWFUL. Aaron Kampman is the ONLY guy from a Sherman draft worth a darn.

The truly d*mning thing about his drafts is that when the Packers finally dump his guys NOBODY wants them. Which in this league is pretty startling since guys tend to land on SOMEBODY'S roster at least for a WHILE.

What makes me wonder about Thompson is that this offseason the guy had a kajillion bucks to spend and after waiting, waiting, waiting he spends it on Charles Woodson, the 30 year old corner with the curious approach to the game.

There are more then a few Packer fans who think Thompson has been promised a "cut" of unused salary cap money. I don't know if that is even possible under league rules, but based on how Thompson approached the free agent market with a bad team you can understand why Green Bay fans would wonder.

Folks here DO understand that Green Bay will now have to seriously overpay to get a player to come to Green Bay because the town isn't that appealing to most players AND the team is bad.

Its not just now he's bad. He's been a liability for years, I remember him repeatedly drawing PI penalties in big games like their last playoff game against the Vikes, he singlehandedly killed the Packers attempts at a comeback.

Others have mentioned the penalties. To make it simple [Carroll] earned, and I do mean EARNED, the nickname "Grabby Smurf". Sherman had him practice in boxing gloves last season. Didn’t deter him from making the same mistakes.

I almost sprayed coffee after reading that. Grabby Smurf. Priceless. :)

I doubt Carroll could be a whole lot worse than the Eagles' Joselio Hansen, though. Hell, a one-legged leper couldn't be much worse than Joselio "1st Down" Hansen.

I could see the Redskins picking him up, given how their secondary is struggling (which is put it mildly). I wasn't sure it was possible, but they managed to find a downgrade from Walt Harris in Kenny Wright.

The Packers didn't completely miss on all of their late round picks. They spent a fifth round pick on Hunter Hillenmeyer who they subsequently cut. He now plays strong side linebacker for the best defence in football.

Rapture!!! I spent all day yesterday telling anyone at the office who would listen jost how bad Carroll was, not just in that game, but ever since she came to the team. When I heard this news, I was pleased.

Now. . . . ..

Who is going to replace him?

I don't see why we didn't keep him just to play on kick offs and punts, that seems to be the perfect role for him. He is actually quite good on special teams, and would not be the worst 5th corner in the league. And then cut him after the season, or make him take a huge paycut.

I was going to make the same point. I’ve played with a concussion and, trust me, he played hurt. I wish the NFL had a rule that players have to sit out the next game after a concussion, but I’m sure that would just mean more guys would lie about concussions.

I've played with a concussion, too. The thing is, though, there are different degrees of concussions, and I don't think Dawkins's was that bad. In any case, though, Wednesday he was out of practice. Every day after that he was in, and on the first day after he returned from practice, Reid was asked about him and he said he was fine.

I can't help but think this is a bad move.

The guy has guaranteed money, so you're paying him whether or not he's on the team, and hes a good special teamer. This is just blowing cap space.

I agree that this looks like a bad move. If his salary is guaranteed, then cutting him does nothing but free up one roster spot, and even though he sucks, I doubt that the Packers have 5 CBs better than Batman. This could have been done in preseason, or after the season, but not during the season.

I'm in the middle of charting this game and the one thing that strikes me so far is that either the coaches didn't make any adjustment at all to help him or the safeties were out of position alot. Not sure if either or both are true but it did seem like they hung him out to dry there.

[3]

The math geek in me was confused by the term "egregious pi", until I remember this was a football board.

3.1415927 etc. etc.

James C:

Hunter is regularly replaced on passing downs. And he keeps his job because he is smart and plays alongside some of the best defensive players in the league. On a team like Green Bay there isn't the compensating level of talent to create a context where HH would be a contributor.

Hunter is in the right place for his skill set.

By the way, this is an indictment on GREEN BAY, not HH.

I cannot help but suspect that McCarthy didn't want Carroll from the beginning but was forced to keep him for the financial reasons listed. The Eagles debacle just gave MM the public ammo he needed to get his way.

That's the totally unfounded internal politics analysis of why a guy is released under these circumstances.

Think of it from McCarthy's perspective. The guy came from the previous regime, he wasn't that coachable, he wasn't getting better, and when he was on the field for anything more then kick coverage he was a borderline disaster. The Eagles CLEARLY gameplanned on attacking Carroll every opportunity.

Why keep an employee with such a narrow list of positives? Especially when he was hired by the old boss?

If you are going to lose might as well be with "your" guys.

I am not writing that this approach is CORRECT. Just that I understand it.

What worries me is that the team had ALL TRAINING CAMP and 30 games of tape to see that Carroll had issues. And NOW they do something? That's scary bad management.

Sigh......

. .I doubt that the Packers have 5 CBs better than Batman.

Batman? What does that mean?

IMHO, special teams is the only place for Carroll. It seemed that every time an opponent needed a big play, they would just throw at 28 and they would get a penalty. That had to be just crushing for the rest of the team.

Word is that Jarrett Bush (cut in preseason by Carolina) is gonna get a shot at the nickel.

They need Jim Bates

The Eagles CLEARLY gameplanned on attacking Carroll every opportunity.

Actually, there was some word that the first Lewis TD was from Jeff Garcia noting that Carroll was running on dead legs. They brought in Greg Lewis because he had fresh legs and is fast, and blew right by him.

It's entirely possible Carroll was just being overused in the game.

BadgerT1000-

Thompson has made it clear that he doesn't want to build a team through free agency. He has stated that he wants to build a team through drafting young talent.

Why did he sign Charles Woodson then? Great question. Maybe he thought a big name would help keep Favre around, or maybe he was duped into thinking that Woodson would solidify the defense.

Even with salary cap room in the future, don't expect Thompson to make many big moves.

Maybe the Titans can pick him up. He's at least as good as Reynaldo Hill.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this one. But on Greg Lewis' 2nd touchdown catch it looked like 10 Packers were playing Cover 2 zone. The 11th Packer, Ahmad Carroll, was playing man. And when Lewis' route took him into what should have been Carroll's zone, he was wide open. Seriously, Greg Lewis should never be that wide open unless someone made a huge mistake.

This is like in "The Replacements": once the quarterback crosses the picket line, rather than demoting Steve Falco to second string, he's just off the team.

I suppose you could say once you lose such confidence in a player you don't trust him to be on the field, it's not worth letting him stay on the roster. My understanding from watching a lot of NFC North games is that Carroll gets so many penalties that he's actually more harmful than just a lousy DB.

"it looked like 10 Packers were playing Cover 2 zone. The 11th Packer, Ahmad Carroll, was playing man."

At least he was on the field! There were a couple of plays when McNabb went to the no-huddle where the Packers only had 10 men on defense (Carroll being the missing player.) Clearly they were feeling confident....

#10, #23: Please don't say that too loud. In case Millen leaves the Lions, I don't want the Fords getting ideas.

Re 36

Back before "Grabby Smurf" and "Highway 28" caught on, his nickname was Batman.

I think it's a similar phenomenon to the time when One Man Gang became Akeem the African Dream.

#43- What would be more effective, a 10-man defense without Carroll, or an 11-man defense with him? Tough call.

They just got fed up with him. Poor technique, penalty-machine, and showing very little signs of improvement.

I thought Ahman Green was the Packer w the Batman fetish

and I always thought One Man Gang was a great name.

Re 48

You are correct. I didn't know about Green's Batman thing. Link is to an article about how they both have the same nickname.

You are also correct about One Man Gang.

WLUK will always be ABC to me

Did the Packers ever try this guy as a kick/punt returner/special teamer? He might have sucked while covering recievers, but he is still pretty damn fast.

Joe:

Carroll is very good KICK coverage. Period.

He has bad hands so returning kicks is not an option.

And regarding his speed Carroll has great speed when he is in shorts and sneakers. It has never really translated to the playing field.

re: 38
Carrol is a nickel CB and a gunner on the punt unit. He may be on the kickoff coverage. If he had dead legs from those assignments, then physically he may not be up to the task. And after watching him for 2 1/4 years, I can buy that.

#53:

Which.. means he's probably a dime CB, rather than a nickel CB. Either that, or as Aaron suggested, consider switching him to safety, though he'd have to bulk up a bit for that.

Pat:

He's not smart enough to play safety. Not even close.

He gets lost in coverage when he's told "follow THAT guy".

Is anybody really THAT bad? I kind of refuse to believe you guys. Even if he's only a special teamer... let him play it! What difference does it make? I never see the point of cutting someone during the season unless he's actually a problem/distraction for the team.

highway 28 ... i can't believe he's finally gone

"There are more then a few Packer fans who think Thompson has been promised a “cut� of unused salary cap money."
There are more than a few Packer fans who are complete idiots.

The rams WR's should absolutely destroy the packers at the weekend. Holt and Bruce both had over 100 yars last week. Even if Harris can cover Holt, and woodson can cover Bruce, who on that roster is going to cover Curtis and MacDonald, never mind Klopfenstein who had his first TD last week. Rams should score 40 points again.

"grabby smurf"? that is just GREAT! with a nickname like that, i hope he stays in the league for many years to come.

i'm a sucker for nicknames.

According to Patriot Reign, during the 2004 draft Belichick had targeted a few people. With his first day picks he had targeted DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Vince Wilfork, Jonathan Vilma, Ben Watson, Kris Wilson, Chris Snee, Travelle Wharton, and Sean Bubin.

Of course, the Patriots ended up with Wilfork and Watson. They just signed Bubin. Earlier this year, they acquired Jonathan Sullivan and Wesley Britt, whom he was interested in previous years.

The reason why I bring this up:

"If he couldn’t get Hall or Robinson on the first day, he thought Ahmad Carroll would be a good choice at corner."

Given Hobbs' and Gay's injuries, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Carroll was on a flight to Foxboro soon.

What do you say, Good Citizen? Would you like to ride with me? Would you like to ride with ..... Batman?

And if Carroll was so bad that they just cut him, meaning that they think a player lower on the depth chart could do better, why wasn't that other player in the game to begin with? Did they just figure out that Carroll was bad?

I think there is some explanation beyond poor performance. The internal politics explanation in #35 is one possibility. Another might be some off-field issues - film study habits, drugs, etc. A third would be the secondary coach had publicly told him all week (or night) to do something and he didn't do it, so he was cut to deliver a message to listen to the coaches. Final speculative possibility - coaching staff scapegoated Carroll for their putting him in position to fail.

If some team thinks that last bit is the reason, then Carroll will find a new home. Otherwise, he can join Eric Warfield in the out-of-football camp.

re: 54, 61;
I can envision Carrol thriving in certain environments and self-destructing in others. His physical skills are obvious. He has speed, is physical, can close on the receiver well and is quick in change of direction. And as his tackle on McNabb showed, he has the strength to provide run support and be a sure tackler.
He plays the short pass routes well. When he doesn't get a jam he has a tendency to grab, same when he buys a fake or juke. This problem is compounded by the fact that he always seems to buy the fake or juke.
Most problematic, his lack of ability to play the ball in flight. He always moves to cover/hit the receiver on a thrown ball when he usually has not laid eyes on the throw.
Most of this would seem to be correctable with a decent secondary coach (read: not Kurt Schottenheimer). But the best the Packer's could do was reduce his tendency to grab from always to frequently.

Ahmad Carroll reminds me of a young Chad Scott (physically gifted, horrible football player, penalty machine). When the next New England corner gets hurt (should be any day now), I could see Carroll becoming a Patriot.

RE: MCS #50.

You are old :) . WLUK hasn't been an ABC station since the year I was born.
Now WLUK as an NBC station, and WGBA as a Fox station, that I remember.