ryan, you missed the best (worst) quote of the article:

"Tom Brady, Peyton [Manning], Donovan... they all throw from the pocket, make the right decisions, do the right things. I'm up there with Peyton and Brady and Donovan. I think I'm there with that group [as a passer]. But I don't feel I get the credit I deserve as far as what I do and the impact I have on my team."

because if there is one thing vick doesn't get enough of is credit. especially completely undeserved credit. oh wait...

Perhaps he means he doesn't get credit for when they lose?

This really should have been filed under the Humor section, not Sports.

On a related note, just because one can never have too much of ripping on Vick, this is a short humor piece I wrote last week in the style of DJ Gallo, The Onion, etc...

Michael Vick: "Hey, Where'd All The Reporters Go?"

ATLANTA, GA--Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick gazed in wonder at the vacant swath of locker room where reporters used to gather and wondered how to regain his once high profile.

"Ever since we lost to New Orleans two weeks ago, nobody wants to interview me," Vick complained to a nearby janitor, "Now everybody wants to talk to Reggie Bush. What has he ever done?"

As the janitor, Jose Feliciano, of Mayaguez, Puerto Rico, swept, Vick continued his monologue.

"I threw for 137 yards on the Saints and lead my team to 3 points. That sort of performance has always been good for a crowd of fifty, sometimes one hundred reporters. Maybe even more! Now they all want to talk to some punk kid who's never done a thing in the NFL. It's not fair. He was good in college, so the league suddenly plasters his face all over every commercial. Kid should accomplish something in this league. Earn that hype. Like I did. Remember last year when I told everyone I could pass? I stayed in the pocket and didn’t scramble for three whole weeks. I threw for over 200 yards 3 weeks in a row. Only 27 other quarterbacks did that all of last year! I know my team lost all three of those games but I'd proved my point. Besides, the owner gave me an extra hundred grand under the table to stop passing – but you didn’t get that from me. Strictly off the record."

"Don't get me wrong - I've got nothing against Reggie Bush. I have love for Reggie. He's an exciting player. He'll be a big star some day. Look at all the jerseys he's already sold. And the tickets. But why should he be the new face of the league? There are plenty of more accomplished people, like me, for example, who should be getting the hype. I mean, I only fumbled 11 times last year. How many players can say that? Besides, Reggie Bush hasn't even gotten Hepatitis yet, let alone Herpies."

At this point, Feliciano turned flipped over the Tito Puente tape in his walkman, flipped off the lights, and headed for the time clock in the janitors office.

"Maybe," Vick grumbled in the now darkened locker room, "I should steal another Rolex or something. That'll remind people I'm still relevant. Hello? Anyone?"

Well, look at the 2006 Pro Bowl rosters.

Brady, Manning, and Vick. Whether or not you agree with the selections, I can understand how Mike would see himself in the same company.

He also has valid points about how he performed in Dan Reeves' offense versus the current offense.

Given the recent demonstration of how not to pass-block by the Atlanta OL, though, he'd be safer taking a job as Wile E. Coyote's stunt double than staying in the pocket.

The Mora Jr. styled West Coast Offense doesn't do a good job highlighting Vick's strengths and hiding his weaknesses. However, I don't think "pocket preseence" is one of those skills that needs highlighting. The option was a good start, but it doesn't work well against NFL defenses. I'm not sure what would work better, perhaps they should fully copy Denver's bootleg and rollout based attack.

My favorite Vick moment was his crowning achievement last year: throwing for 228 yards against the Dolphins. After this game, he proclaimed that his critics need not ever speak of his alleged inability to pass from the pocket ever again.

I'm hoping that McNabb and Bulger's successful returns from injury and the entrance of Drew Brees to the NFC will be enough to keep Vick out of the Pro Bowl this year. If nothing else, Hasselbeck should be the next best option should one of the top 3 falter.
Of course, I would also select Manning the younger, Matt Leinart, or whoever is throwing the ball to Steve Smith to the Pro Bowl before I would take Vick.

Has Vick ever made an effort to minimize his weaknesses? Has he ever consistently worked on his mechanics, in an effort to improve his accuracy? I'm no expert on the coaching the guy has received, but at some point, Vick, like any talented player with flaws, has to stop being stubborn and make the painstaking effort to change long ingrained habits, if he has hopes to get the most out of himself. I think the ship has sailed at this point; if Vick really wanted to get better, we would have seen some consistent effort by now.

First, Vick did his best in Dan Reeves' old-school offense, which included some pocket passing. I'm just sayin'.

Second, this statement: One minute he wants to be the ultimate running quarterback, the next he wants to be Joe Namath is hilarious. The writer realizes that Namath threw more picks than touchdowns, right?

"It's not hard for me to make plays in the passing game,'' Vick said. "I think some people think I can't make plays [passing], but I can. I want people to recognize me as a complete quarterback. And I feel right now, I am. That statement came hot on the heals of a paragraph describing his abysmal QB rating and barely 50% completion percentage.

Oh, and this guy's rankings are completely out of whack. I'm fairly certain that the Saints are a better team than the Falcons, for example. But he gets props for ranking the Raiders at #97...

Maybe this article was slightly toungue in cheek...

I should add that I lost any respect I ever had for Vick with his disgraceful, "Ohhhh, I'm sooooooo cold!!" performance last year against the Bears.

#9 - I'm not a Vick fan, but I can't attribute that game to some sort of character flaw. He didn't quit on his team, he just wasn't ready for the cold and played badly because of it. It happens. And it was friggin' cold that night.

Anyway, all jokes aside, my problem with his quote the lack of self-awareness it implies. If he truly believes that he's in the Brady/Manning/McNabb tier, then it indicates to me that he doesn't see anything wrong with his passing, and makes it extremely unlikely that he'll improve. He could very well become a stronger, faster version of Steve Young - but only if he first admits to himself that he's not there yet.

In Vick's defense, if you've watched their games this year (not counting the Saints game, because they had no shot in that one when the schedule came out), you know that he has actually played pretty well, but the wide receivers couldn't catch a cold and the linemen couldn't block a child. They have 20+ drops already, despite only playing 5 games and throwing the ball less than any other team in the NFL. if they had even average receivers and offensive line, then we should criticize him. Until then, I'm reserving judgement.

Second, this statement: One minute he wants to be the ultimate running quarterback, the next he wants to be Joe Namath is hilarious. The writer realizes that Namath threw more picks than touchdowns, right?

Exactly. He just wishes he could be as effective with his arm as Namath.

whatever happened to those ESPN VICK YARDS they kept flashing around in '04 ? Surely he must be up there in the top four in terms of his own yardage =)

11- horribly thrown balls make drops happen more often. He's also a fan of throwing rockets for no apparent reason, when a bit of touch would work much better.

11: It's crazy how the WRs playing with Vick suddenly can't catch a pass. Surely it's some mysterious ailment that affects them and has nothing to do with Vick.

Certainly not, say, a tendency to rifle the ball at 100mph at his receiver's heads from 8 yards away.

#14

I agree completely. How many different receivers have played poorly with Vick? All of them? Is Crumpler reliable or does he just get a lot of looks? Anyway, I think all signs point to Vick being part of the problem. Guys like McNabb have been getting it done for years with average (at best) receivers.

George, I can't say he quit, but I can say he played unenthusiastically, because he was cold, and that's disgraceful. Yes, being outdoors in weather like that, with less than full protective clothing, is extremely uncomfortable. So what? The guy who is paid the most has leadership responsibilities, especially at that position, and Vick failed miserably to fufill those responsibilities.

Bud Grant, when he coached the Vikings outdoors in Minnesota, banned all gloves and sideline heaters, due to his experiences in Canada, where he coached first, and in the Arctic Circle, where he had hunted and fished. He noted that people who were thinking about getting warm were much less attentive to the task at hand than people who simply acknowledged that they were going to freeze their ass off, and were going to be uncomfortable, and then went about what needed to be done. Vick was definitely thinking about getting warm in that game.

A guy like Vick gets paid in part to set the example, and he sure didn't do it that night. It reminded me of what Cris Collinsworth once said about playing the Chargers in Cincy, during their famously frigid playoff game. He said he could see the Chargers mentally fold during pregame drills when Munoz (a Southern California product, by the way) and the boys came out in short sleeves.

Contrast that with the Landry's Cowboys, who although they lost the game, never conceded a thing in regards to being able to deal with the elements, when they played the Packers in the Ice Bowl.

Vick's problem is that he's lazy. He wants to think of himself as an elite passer and has blamed his WRs and Coaches for not letting him pass, but he can't read defenses and he's not very accurate. This isn't a McNabb pre-TO situation here. Vick has receiving options. He's just regularly overthrowing or underthrowing them. Vick even earlier this year said it was the first time he went back and watched game film of himself.

One of the crazier things I read in one of his interviews with Cris Carter was that he "wasn't getting the coaching he needed because he was a black QB", which is ridiculous. Now, the first part of that may be true (after all, how can a coaching staff have a QB whose never watched game film of himself in all his years as a starter?), but to even imply that his coaching staff is racist or wants him to fail to lose their millionaire jobs? Please.

I think Algie Crumpler does really well considering some of the passes he gets. Did you see the 1yard pass he recieved in the Carolina Game. There was absolutely ne need for that sort of throw. I think you guys are right, he just doesn't seem to understand the concept of 'touch'

re 11, 14, 15, 16: I think it's a bit of both. You're right, a lot of the "drops" are passes which aren't exactly hitting the receivers between the numbers (eg. the one Roddy White dropped last Sunday which was intercepted. You can certainly argue that an NFL quality receiver should have caught it, but it's also fair to say that the pass was well behind him).

But, to be fair to Vick, his receivers do seem to drop at least one well-thrown deep ball a game (eg. Michael Jenkins last weekend), which can't be blaimed on throwing excessively hard.

And the comparison to McNabb is interesting, since the Eagles receivers were ticketed for a lot of drops last year, and McNabb, in my opinion, also often lacks touch on short passes. LJ Smith actually had a short TD reception last year where he ducked his head out the way as he put up his hands to make the catch. He caught it, but obviously you don't want your receivers making a habit of turning their heads away when catching the ball.

All this negative Michael Vick talk is scaring me a bit. The last time he played against the Steelers (2002) he was ridiculously, obscenely good in almost single-handedly leading the Falcons back in the famous OT/tie game. Yeah, I know, that defense and especially the secondary isn't nearly as good as the current Steelers' defense.

I'm starting to think that Crumpler might be one of those great players that we don't realize is great because of his circumstances.

Regarding #11:

They have 20+ drops already, despite only playing 5 games and throwing the ball less than any other team in the NFL. if they had even average receivers and offensive line, then we should criticize him. Until then, I’m reserving judgement.

From ProFootballWeekley

NFC - Passes Dropped
Rank Team Passes Dropped
1 Philadelphia Eagles 19
2 Green Bay Packers 15
3 New Orleans Saints 11
4 Seattle Seahawks 10
5 Minnesota Vikings 9
6 Arizona Cardinals 9
7 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9
8 Carolina Panthers 9
9 New York Giants 8
10 Dallas Cowboys 7
11 Atlanta Falcons 6
12 Washington Redskins 6
13 Detroit Lions 5
14 Chicago Bears 4
15 St. Louis Rams 3
16 San Francisco 49ers 3

Sounds like another Vick appolgist has come out of the woodworks. No matter how bad he plays, someone will always blame the other 10 guys, even when they're not at fault.

Mora and Knapp are awful. (Sure am glad we didn't hire that Lovie Smith guy when we had the chance. I mean, "Lovie"? No way that guy's going to be a good NFL coach, right?)

And you don't often see QB's carry bad coaches very far. (At least none come immediately to mind)

But still, it's been SIX YEARS. I'm a homer, and I love the guy, but it's time for Mike to turn his passing game around.

Crumpler is the leader of the offense now. But the leader ought to be the guy who touches the ball every play.

And Vick is still running for almost 9 yards per carry. Not saying he can be a good QB, but it's funny that Vick wants to do more of the thing he's below average at and less of the thing he's good at. Is there any way the Falcons ever cut him? How much money is really at risk here?

Re: 24

I'm not so sure I agree. If you want to talk about offense, just what is so awful about Knapp/Mora? They're in a situation where they're not going to get any better on offense until Vick starts playing better, and not playing him just isn't an option. It's pretty easy to say "Oh, it's the coach's fault", but isn't that getting a little old, especially after Dan Reeves got run out of town (not that he deserved to stay)? Vick needs to realize that he is at the center of the Falcons' low completion percentage, high sack percentage passing offense in Atlanta, and if he doesn't do anything to improve the situation, he can't expect anyone else to do the same. Is there FO data on Vick-led vs. Schaub-led Falcon offenses?

Re:25
It's too bad that attitude, ego, and the salary cap prevent Mora from making MV the Ultimate Slash.

PR/KR/short yardage QB/Hail Mary QB/Third down back/Backup QB/WR

Actually, it'll never happen because he's too good of a quarterback to put him somewhere else like this. It is all the things he does well that makes him so frustrating.

25: The short answer is, there is absolutely no chance of Vick not being on the team any time soon. They can't cut him, and nobody would trade for him.

26: "What is so awful about Knapp/Mora?" Read around this week. Everyone -- EVERYONE -- is ripping the Falcons coaches, on both sides of the ball, for being too conservative. TMQ pointed out that late in the fourth quarter of a close game, the Falcons called a high number of passing plays, when they are clearly better running the ball. Ashley Lelie (or however you spell it) looks like their best receiver, but he can't break the starting lineup because he's not "thei guy." On defense, the Falcons just refuse to blitz, leaving their small line to get overpowered again and again.

Let me correct that: The Falcons' offense wasn't conservative enough.

Please join me in the movement to have Michael Vick RB-eligible in Fantasy Football leagues!

Re:#21

The thing is, the Steelers had almost completely contained Vick for most of the game, as they built up a big lead. Then they relaxed a little bit, and that's when Vick had some success and brought Atlanta back. And remember, the Steelers' defense sucked that year. DeWayne Washington and Chad Scott as starting corners?! Lee Flowers and Brent Alexander at safety?! Jason Gildon still starting?!

Michael Vick is just a flashier Kordell Stewart. They are the same exact player, only Kordell was more durable.

"Has Vick ever made an effort to minimize his weaknesses? Has he ever consistently worked on his mechanics, in an effort to improve his accuracy? I’m no expert on the coaching the guy has received[...]"

Yes he has, and no you are not.

Dean reminds me of every other unfunny hack on this site who seemingly writes just for the exquisite pleasure of hearing their own beautiful, fascinating voices echoing around in their heads. I'm sure you delight everyone around you with your slices of "wit".

I'm sure I'll be dismissed as a homer, but it's not that there aren't a lot of legitimate criticisms of Vick to be made - it's that you guys are self-important blowhards who would rather err on the side of "making shit up" than simply restrain yourself from speaking with authority on subjects with which you only have a passing familiarity. And sure, we all have the right to talk out of our asses (a right I myself cherish), but I am consistently amazed by the sheer douchebagginess some of you can manage to imbue your arguments with. Kudos, I say.

Al Davis will take him off Mora's hands.

The falcons have reverted to a misdirection/ option offense that you would expect to see in pop warner or highschool.

Michael "pick" is a player that hasn't got any better in 6 years in the league. It's always "he is still young".

I have seen nothing but excuses for his poor play. "no receivers, no line, no team"... What quarterback has receivers that catch every pass? Eli Manning has had about 4 interceptions this year that have bounced off his receivers hands and nobody says he has no receivers. It's funny how all the quarterbacks with "weapons" are good and they get them the ball much like a PG in basketball.

"pick" is just a lazy, selfish player that would rather get paid to scramble, than actually study and learn the game.

i read or heard jaworski state that most of Vick's sacks are a result of him dropping back diagonally, is there any evidence/observation about it this year?

I think what drives me nuts about this conversation is when people start to talk about Schaub like he's a Brady-in-waiting - when I see him play, I see a guy who holds the ball too long, misses wide open receivers and throws into double coverage way more than Vick. He really isn't a better passer than MV.

Also I love the special irony in ppl lazily repeating the Vick-is-lazy canard, since the guy spent the entire offseason working on his fundamentals w/Musgrave. It's lazy and stupid to blame the offense's breakdown on Vick, just like it would be stupid to give him all the credit when it succeeds. It's not that he has no culpability here, because he has definately played his share of bad football, but this is a breakdown at all levels - coaching, o-line, receiving and quarterbacking.

The falcons had to change their offense to suite his needs. Knapp know he doesn't have the patience, discipline, or intelligence to be able to read defenses play after play so they had to start running an option keeper and misdirection offense.

Even a lot of those passes are just rollouts and then dump offs to the TE or 1 read plays.

Ron Mexico will make 1 read and if thats not open he will run.

Harken, ye mortals! 'Tis the time of the undoing! The Dread Football Gods have heard your cries! They have heard ye praise Vick despite all eveidence to the contrary, and the Hour of Reckoning is at hand!

ARISE! ARISE, FOOTBALL OUTSIDER MESSAGE BOARD CURSE! ARISE!

IA! IA! CTHULU FOMBC!
IA! IA! CTHULU FOMBC!
IA! IA! CTHULU FOMBC!

Re: 36
Who mentioned that about Schaub?

blahblahfalcons I think you seem to have a realistic view of him, but I think you are missing that many of these people are reacting to most people's (and apperantly his) view of his abilities, not your reasonable view of them. Since he came into the league he has been a middling qb only because o his amaing running skills. Just a little above the point where teams are looking for a new guy (say 16th out of 32 teams). In the NFC alone I can only think of a few currently starting QBs who I would want less than Vick in passing situations.

Every year we hear how he is going to be beeter, and every year to my eyes he is exactly the same.

Regardless of Vick's inability to improve (which I think is obvious given his regression), Mora is not running the scheme best suited for Vick. The West Coast Offense has lots of short, quick routes that rely on exquisite timing to succeed. We know that Vick does not have great touch or accuracy, so that diminishes the the ability of the timing routes to work. The WCO routes also stay close to the line of scrimmage, which keeps the defense close to the pocket, making it harder for Vick to scramble for huge gains. The offense that would maximize Vick's abilites would be a vertical passing offense that spreads the defense out, creates seperation deep, and gives Vick room to run.

Hey, blahblah, it's not making anything up to say Vick doesn't throw the ball particularly well. Now, if he were being paid like a qb who didn't throw the ball well, so a larger cap percentage could be spent on, say, a defensive tackle, so Falcons fans didn't have to pretend that a guy who couldn't stick with the Packers was the second coming of Joe Greene, then Vick's poor passing would be of less importance. The reality, however, is that Vick gets paid a lot of money, and his performance lags the cap percentage he consumes, even given his remarkable running skills.

Go ahead and insult people in this forum, though, since it seems to make you feel better.

#38: "The falcons had to change their offense to suite (sic) his needs."

But, isn't that a good thing? If a key player on your team and one who is eating a significant amount of cap space has talents suited to a particular scheme, isn't it smart to design the rest of your team around that scheme?

I won't argue whether the Falcs have actually done so or not (I tend to agree that an offense requiring a precise drop, split-second timing, and throws to an exact spot of the field may not be the most suited to Vick's abilities), but generally speaking, I wouldn't say that it's a bad thing for a team to change their scheme to suit the particular talents of a key player.

Which is why I thought it was dumb of Mangini to switch to the 3-4, but that's a different discussion.

Re: 44

I think you make good points, except for the part about "precise drop and split-second timing".

Jaws, in his spot on FO in January (see link) suggests that any offense requires timing, and I suggest that any offense will require precise drops as well. I think the offense does fit Vick's strengths- they run the ball very well, because he doesn't pass it very well. I don't know the passing offense that fits his lack of discipline, accuracy and precision, his poor reading of defenses, and his high sack percentage. Whether short- or long-dropback, rollout, throwing an out, cross, skinny pose, or screen, he consistently does not get the ball where it needs to be.

There is a trade-off for all of this. While I don't think much of Vick's efficiency, he does show up every year with a decent yards per pass, suggesting (I've not looked) that he does have a high yards per completion. He's also amazing running with the ball, and I think his handoff skills are right up there with Peyton Manning's. I think the big problem is that very good defenses defend well agains big plays, and require an offense to be efficient to be effective.

As for play-calling, I don't watch a lot of Falcons' games, but I am curious why I don't see them achieving more frequently on play-action.

but the falcons don't really run a west coast offense.

Their favorite 2 plays are the option keeper, and the stretch right play.

That play where everybody stretches to the right can either be run as drawn up, or they have variations off of it where "pick" fakes the handoff and runs the naked bootleg. They have some rollout pass plays off the bootleg as well.

They are running a misdirection/ college/highschool offense and NOT as west coast offense.

OK, look, I've not hidden the fact that I am not the biggest Falcons fan. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing them go 0-16, but that's beside the point. But if you look at the 2002 QB DVOA rankings, you'll see where Vick ranked. This was also the second to last Dan Reeves season. The following year, Vick got injured in the preseason and Reeves was shown the door. Ever since the stupid decision to go "West Coast" with Vick, he's gotten worse. That's not a good sign. I place the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of Mora and Knapp. You coach to your talents, not to a system.

The "Vick is lazy" comments reek of bigotry. That's all that I'm going to say about that.

The Schaub love in fascinating as well, since he hasn't "won a game as a starter" (I'm not a big fan of that indicator, but still) and because he's a less than 50% passer for his brief career, with a tremendous 68.8 passer rating. Sure, the favorite player is the backup, but this is absurd. It's almost as absurd as the "move Vick to RB/WR" talk that I hear around town. Again, that's on the same level as "Vick is lazy".

The numbers bear it out: with a different system, Vick was a good quarterback. With this system, he's garbage as a passer. Vick hasn't changed; it's the system. And I'm not a Vick apologist, and I hate the Falcons, but I think that Blank and McKay made a mistake with Mora and Knapp.

Sophrandos, I have no opinion about Schaub, other than there is little reason to think he is a good NFL qb, and I have little doubt that Vick would do better in a more vertically oriented system. I can't say Vick is "lazy", because I haven't been around him.

I can say that that his throwing mechanics are still very inconsistent. I can say that when a player who is consuming a large amount of cap space doesn't make strides in eliminating glaring weaknesses, that's a problem. I've said the same thing about Brett Favre. I also think it's just as unwise to label a comment as being the product of "bigotry", without a lot of evidence, as it is to call somebody "lazy" without a lot of evidence.

Finally, citing one year as definitive evidence that a player is a good NFL qb is unwise. Jeff George had more than one good year, but he still sucked as an NFL qb. No, that doesn't mean that I think Vick is another Jeff George, but I do think that Vick has to make huge strides before the cap space he consumes is worthwhile.

There ain't any Yankees, Mets, or Red Sox in the NFL; teams that can afford to wildly overcompensate a single player, in terms of his usefulness in providing wins consistent with his salary and bonuses, without it greatly affecting the team's long term competitiveness. Vick is not pulling his weight, and it can't all be laid at the feet of his coaches.

To be more clear, Sophrandos, I thought the "lazy" remark was out of line as well, and I'm glad you called somebody on it. I just would be hesitant to go so far as to imply somebody was bigot, based on that remark alone.

Lazy?

I don't normally watch Inside the NFL but I tivoed last night rerun.

Chris Carter: “Do you ever sit around and think about … throwing the ball 40 times a game? Callin’ your own plays at the line of scrimmage?�

Vick: “I do. I do. I think that’s a that’s a quarterback’s dream right there: uh to be able to air it out you know 30, 40 times; to be able to check off; and you know to call your own plays. Which would take a lot more work, a lot more study but if I was put in a position where I could do it, you know I’d put the time in. That would be no problem.�

Vick doesn't feel that being the highest paid player in the league is reason enough for him to be the hardest working player in the league and he will step up and earn more responsibility right after the Falcons give him more responsibility. That is lazy, childish and shortsighted.

"I think his handoff skills are right up there with Peyton Manning’s."

They certainly should be, but aren't even close. Watch a Vick play action vs a Manning play action and you will see what I mean. Vick's lack of preperation shows up in many of the small things: carrying the ball, dropping back, play faking, etc. Having seen both of them practice in person, I wouldn't be shocked if Shockley is a better qb in three years.

re: coaching to the talent and not the system:

Just think it's interesting, with all the talk about Belichicks 'system' - and Brady being a product of it & whatever... - how much NEs offensive gameplans have changed during the last 4-5 seasons, even with the same QB. Mora really doesn't seem to be trying hard enough to experiment and find out what will work with Vick - which, admittedly, would take a prolonged bout of courage and patience, but would probably pay off in the end.

"Re: 36
Who mentioned that about Schaub?"

Nobody did, you're right. I was just using your post as an excuse to go off on a tangent.

I didn't think I'd find myself saying this about a Saints fan, but I agree with much of what Sophandros said. The insistence of some that MV doesn't have the intelligence to make more than one read at a time is baffling, especially since when I've seen him play this year it's looked to me like he goes through his progressions pretty well.

I don't know how much blame lays with Vick and how much belongs with the coaches. I think, as with most things in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. A lot of the schematic criticisms leveled at Knapp, for instance, seem so obvious (the fact that they don't throw to Dunn anymore, or that the fastest running back from this year's draft only sees the field about four snaps per game, or that our defacto best receiver [Lelie] has been riding the pine) that I find it hard to believe that a coach at the professional level wouldn't be aware of them, indicating that there are probably a lot of unseen factors going into his decision-making besides "omfg dis guy is so dumb". It just seems too easy, from the outside looking in, to declare that Vick has been hamstrung by the offense or vice versa.

Overall though I am way more concerned about/pissed at Ed "4th and 26" Donatell these days.

If MV isn't lazy, then why did he just start watching film last week?

Peyton Manning looks at screen shots inbetween series, but MV doesn't even look at film on a weekly basis. Inbetween series he just sits on the bench with a blank stare on his face.

Well, Bobby Douglass got to 6-2 once too... I bet MV pushes back and doesnt want to do half the stuff the coaches tell him. Not convinced he is coachable, sounds like he thinks he knows it all already. He has thrown EVERYONE els in Hotlanta except Arthur Blank under the bus. He bitched about all the passing under Reeves, now he bitches about all the running plays under the new regime. Remember when it used to be a team game? Maybe he should take the same advise T.O. never takes, i.e., STFU and quit talking to reporters. NFL insiders seem to think he is Oakland-bound. After a while, the coaches cant all be wrong.

Another really hard hit or two and he either starts learning the QB position or retires, because he wont be able to run much anymore.

And, Atlanta's most consistent wideout is already out for the year.

Take a good look at his throwing mechanics. He really cocks that ball and whips it out with extra torsion on the old arm. If his arm gets hit while doing that, we are talking multiple bone breaks in his case. Lucky for him he is usually running when he throws... Lotsa touch on those throws...

And regarding race, I am certain some folks take up for him ONLY OR PRIMARILY BECAUSE HE IS BLACK.

I will stipulate, however, that Ron Mexico is a more consistent fantasy play than Chauncey Pullpecker.

"Inbetween series he just sits on the bench with a blank stare on his face."

Okay, you're just making shit up at this point. He talks with his coordinator inbetween every series.

Also, "Chauncey Pullpecker"? Even Skip Bayless has more imagination than that.

It fits C.P. real well and everybody knows to whom it refers.

I have posted numerous times on how overrated he is... a debate no one seems to want to engage in anymore...

Rapid resorts to insult indicate one cant win an argument.

And altho I didnt bring up the blank stare business, I do seem to remember some of that from one monday night in N'Awlins...

Okay, you’re just making shit up at this point. He talks with his coordinator inbetween every series....

Sounds like you made THAT up. I watch the majority of falcons games.

I watch every Falcons game, and he and Knapp sit side-by-side on the bench after every offensive series. Maybe the fact that he's always sitting is what's throwing you off. I can take screenshots if you want.

Re: 50
You're right. I specifically did not mention his play-action skills for that reason.

re 23: it's really difficult for me to believe those figures. The Eagles have 19 drops already! Yeesh! A bad high school team wouldn't even have that many at this point in the season.

I guess it depends on whether a drop is "anything which hits the receivers hands, no matter how poorly thrown" or "the pass hit the receiver right between the numbers and got put on the ground".

By the former definition, the Falcons receivers definitely total more than 6 this season. By the latter definition, it's hard to believe Philly already has 19.

I'd appreciate it if some of the game charters for Atlanta and Philly could weigh in on these numbers.

And just look what happened Sunday against Pittsburgh. Go figure. Vick's next snippet for the media: "When's the last time that slow-poke Peyton F&%#ing Manning had FOUR TDs against the Steelers? So shut the hell up and just admire me for who I am, dammit."

Nos. 23 & 60:

The top of the list sounds like a ton of drops, but on the other hand the bottom number sounds improbably small. Of all the incompletions SF has thrown, only 3 have been the receivers' fault?

He did have a good game. But the champs are kind of self destructing. They need to anoint Dookie the Mini-van and get rolling again.

Sophandros "The “Vick is lazy� comments reek of bigotry. That’s all that I’m going to say about that."

Vick IS lazy, and its got nothing to do with him being black. He admitted this week in a press conference that he'd never watched film of himself. Thats lazy, and stupid.

Way to be a racist, Sophandros.