Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

12 Feb 2007

Andy Reid Takes Leave of Absence

Eagles coach Andy Reid will take a leave of absence to deal with family issues. He'll be back before the NFL draft.

Posted by: Michael David Smith on 12 Feb 2007

84 comments, Last at 15 Feb 2007, 3:22pm by Jeff

Comments

1
by David (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 1:29pm

Not a shock, and a good move for a guy who seems to have quite a few family issues to deal with right now.

2
by Pat (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 1:35pm

Note that mid-March means he misses the start of free agency, though.

3
by pawnking (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 1:38pm

I'm glad for him. Being a dad myself, I can say it's a real shame what he's going through.

4
by C (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 1:43pm

I'm glad he's taking a break to deal with these issues. He's a good family man and I'm sure he's devastated by what is going on with his oldest two boys. The job of a head coach in the NFL is very time-consuming, and I hope this gives him a break to deal with what's truly important.

In terms of free agency, etc., I'm sure he'll be consulted for any moves. I'm also sure they already have a detailed game plan in place for what names are likely to be out there.

5
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 1:48pm

Why in the name of all that is good and holy can't we just have a normal, quiet, uneventful offseason?

6
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 1:57pm

I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't come back, and no, I don't have any specific knowledge of the matter. His sons sound as if they are facing some real long-term problems which cannot even begin to become resolved in four or five weeks. Then again, the sons are adults, and the problems are theirs, not the dad's, and there may not be much the dad can do to help solve their problems.

7
by Michael David Smith :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:14pm

Re 4, "He’s a good family man."

How do you know that?

8
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:24pm

Football is a year round game. For Reid to take off even a month shouldn't be THAT big of a deal considering the family problems he faces.

The winning SB coach was quoted as saying that football wasn't the most important part of his life, and he doesn't work those crazy hours.

The media would jump on Steve Spurrier for stuff like that, but Dungy got a pass.

I wonder if Reid will be percieved as "lazy" or "unprofessional" and criticised for his leave of absence or whether he will get positive spin for being a "family man".

9
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:40pm

8: Dungy's proven that he's a winner in the NFL. Spurrier? Not so much.

Of course, you were probably going in a Limbaugh-esque direction with this...

10
by Darin (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:40pm

I don't see how anyone could possibly criticize Reid for this move. He's doing the right thing. I also am not going to place the 'family man' or 'good guy' label on someone I don't know, just based off of how he interviews and comes off in his press conferences.

Nonetheless, this move tells you where his priorities lie. Regardless of what kind of father he is or has been, this is The Right Thing.

11
by Pat (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:41pm

#6: Reid has multiple younger kids, as well.

12
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:45pm

Re: 8

Tony Dungy - 64.8 winning %
114-62; 9-8 in the playoffs including winning this year's SuperBowl

Andy Reid - 62.5 winning %
80-48; 8-6 in the playoffs including a SuperBowl appearance

Steve Spurrier - 37.5 winning %
12-20; Zero playoff appearances from '02-'03

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

13
by Bobman (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:47pm

Reid's trying to pull his son's out of a bad downward spiral and Spurrier took time off to golf. I see a difference there. Regarding some of the above, the boys ARE adults, but I understand one or both are living with their folks--that makes it more of Andy's problem than if the kids were living in, say, another state.

As a dad, if things somehow got this far out of alignment with my kids, I'd take off whatever time seemed to work--that could be a couple years, depending. In the NFL, as a coach, his job sucks up at least 3,000 hrs a year when most folks work about 2,000. He could easily get a consultant gig or one with TV that pays his bills and only takes 1/3 of the time he puts in now.

Good luck, Andy. This could be tougher than any NFL season. And is a lot more important and valuable.

14
by Bobman (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:49pm

Maybe the family man references are because of Andy's remote similarities, mainly girth, to Peter Griffin. "Stewie, put down the keys and get out of daddy's car...."

15
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:50pm

Maybe the difference between Dungy and Spurrier is that Dungy gets so much done in his "short" days that his teams always make the playoffs and just won the freaking Super Bowl, whereas Spurrier's DC had to step in and run practices because Spurrier didn't know how an NFL team needed to prepare? Building two perennial powers by working extremely efficient 8-10 hour days might understandably come off better than an unorganized 5-hour day where your underlings have to cover for you and your team struggles. Just a thought.

Anyway, my initial reaction was that this story could pretty much have gone uncovered, and few would've known the difference. It'd be one thing if he took off during the season and we didn't see him on the sidelines, but how many would know who was renegotiating contracts and poring over scouting reports and combine numbers? I know Reid has a lot more responsibility than most coaches personnel-wise, but he surely isn't doing it alone, and hopefully the staff is competent enough to handle one offseason without completely screwing everything up.

But anyway, I hope he can help bring his sons around. They are adults, so what he can do is somewhat limited, but having kids in trouble is something I wish upon no parent. Best wishes to him.

16
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:51pm

Good luck, Andy. This could be tougher than any NFL season.

Obviously you have mentally blocked out 2005. And for that I applaud you.

17
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:51pm

I've often thought that the job of NFL head coach would make it extremely difficult to be a "good family man." The time these guys put in is too much for that. I'm not criticizing Reid in particular here, but anyone who works 80 hour weeks (when they don't really have to) isn't doing right by their kids.

As post 6 mentioned, the sons are adults now, but Reid has been the coach of the Eagles since his sons were in their early/mid teens. A month of being there now might not be enough. Maybe he's doing the right thing, but it seems like a day late and a dollar short to me.

18
by MRH (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:52pm

The media would jump on Steve Spurrier for stuff like that, but Dungy got a pass.

Spurrier is 12-20 lifetime with no playoff appearances, a losing record in both his seasons and didn't know the names of players on his defense. Dungy is 114-62, 9 playoffs in 11 years, one losing record, and one SB victory.

If Spurrier was as successful as Dungy, he'd get a pass from the media too. The media criticizes losers, not coaches with a sense of balance between work and outside life.

19
by DMP (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:53pm

(Waiting on a reply to #7 to see where MDS is going with it...)

20
by Harris (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:54pm

Re: #5

What, are you new to being an Eagles fan? Don't you know God hates us? Why else would Angelo Cataldi stay on the air?

I don't know that this makes a difference for free agency. Joe Banner is the cap-and-contracts guy, the Eagles don't have enough money to make any big signings and it's not like the team goes through a lot of complicated negotiations. Either you take what they're giving or they'll tell you to piss off.

21
by Peter Libero (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 2:58pm

I think his point is that we're all being very sympathetic to Andy without knowing anything about the situation at all. For all we know he ignores his family completely normally.

22
by joel in providence (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:01pm

that's it. 2007 is gonna be another wasted season. once again, the organization is going to screw everything up. god dammit! i can't wait for 2008 when they fire reid, hire nick saban/jon gruden and give a.j. feeley the starting job. ;)

23
by DMP (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:03pm

Yes, that's what I think the point is too, and I agree. I was wondering if C was going to come back at it or if MDS was going to elaborate in any way.

24
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:03pm

Yeah, Pat, I didn't know Reid still had kids at home. This might make it more likely that he packs it in.

25
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:10pm

The only thing I took from MDS' remarks is that it is a mistake to confer personal qualities on people we do not know. My usual rule is to not assume anything of personal nature, good or bad, unless I know it directly, or if people I trust are reporting it to me, via direct personal knowledge. I'll make exceptions if somebody is convicted of a violent crime, or, in regards to how good, or how bad, a teammate a guy is, thorough the consensus of his teammates, but other than that I try to avoid pretending to know stuff that I really have no clue of.

26
by billsfan (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:15pm

16:
He must be an Eagles fan, since they have enough bad football memories to make 2005 seem like nothing.

27
by Michael David Smith :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:22pm

Re 25, that's my point. I've heard a lot of people vouching for what a great family man and father Andy Reid is recently, and I don't know how they know that. I don't hold the actions of his adult sons against him, but I also don't know what makes anyone say he's such a good father.

28
by PhillyCWC (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:24pm

Re: 5 - because it's the Eagles and we never have a normal, quiet offseason. ;-)

That said, as a parent myself, I can't even imagine the pain that Andy and his wife must be going through. As much as I'd love for Andy to stay with the Eagles, if he needs to leave football for a while to get his family together, that's the most important thing. Just ask Tony Dungy if he wouldn't give anything to have more time with his son, even one more day.

Just because your kids become adults doesn't mean they stop being your kids, and that you wouldn't do anything up to and including chopping off your own limbs to help them.

I really hope things work out for the Reid clan. It sounds very corny, but I'll be including him and his family in my prayers.

29
by Boo (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:34pm

Somehow I get the impression that it's gonna be too little too late. Even if he is a good famility man, I would guess that the massive amount of time Reid spent away from his family climbing his way up the ladder didn't help. But I guess even the best parents have kids who make bad choices. Especially when drugs are involved.

30
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:38pm

25. Because, gosh darn it, that's the way it oughtta be. I mean, Reid was on the other side of the T.O. feud, and that alone guarantees him sainthood...

31
by DoubleB (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:39pm

How could he be a good father? He's never home. Someone above thought he worked 3000 hours a year. I bet it tops 4000 (average to 80 hours/week). It's a brutal, time-consuming job. Based on the little we know, I think we can make an assumption that he isn't a good father: I don't think his kids decided to up and use heroin that day.

32
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:53pm

While I make no assumptions regarding Reid being a good father, I would also caution against making causal conclusions regarding Reid's job, and his sons' heroin use. There are all sorts of young people with drug problems who have parents that worked normal hours, and spent a lot of time with their children.

33
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 3:58pm

Re: 20

Why else would Angelo Cataldi stay on the air?

I just always assumed that was because God hates me.

34
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 4:09pm

Tony Dungy is a defensive minded head coach who has sported nothing but terrible defenses in Indianapolis.

If he had any other quarterback than Peyton Manning, he wouldn't even come close to sniffing the Super Bowl.

Of Course, he wouldn't be deemed " Marty 2" that couldn't win the big one, but we would have to hear about how good a guy he is.

35
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 4:18pm

Yes, Chris, and if Bill Belichik had inadequate players, he wouldn't have won a Super Bowl(s) either. I fail to understand what the point of the last sentence of your post is.

36
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 4:20pm

Re: 34

And if Spurrier wasn't a complete failure in his 2 years in Washington you wouldn't have to hear how he didn't put in enough time.

37
by morganja (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 4:40pm

Well, as far as being a good father, one has to wonder that if his two sons over 18 are livng at home and have new SUV's and money for guns and drugs.

38
by Mike J (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 4:53pm

Warning, cheapshot:

Andy's obviously let his kids spend too much time with NFL players.

39
by Ryan (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 4:57pm

Too many presumptions of "good father" based on word of mouth, too many presumptions of "bad father" based on his sons.

I've seen too many instances of people growing up in the same atmosphere turn out to be complete opposites to say either way.

40
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:02pm

Re 37

I'm not sure that 23 and 21 are too old to be living at home, although 23 is starting to push it. I moved out after graduating, when I was 22. Does anyone know if the sons went to college or had jobs or whatever? Or were they just rich kids running amok?

41
by joel in providence (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:02pm

as someone who grew up on the main line and saw the children of the rich and powerful up close (unfortunately I wasn't one of them!), i'm not one bit surprised by any of this debacle.

42
by MCS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:04pm

Warning: As I proof-read this, I see it sounds preachy.

It’s a brutal, time-consuming job.

No, it isn't. It doesn't have to be anyway. In my opinion, modern coaches are under such scrutiny that they probably feel that they have to work ungodly hours or they will be accused of not working hard enough. Especially if they don't win. Local media can be brutal.

I wonder if there is a point of diminished return. At what point are they working too hard?

Life needs balance.

I don't have time to cite the sources, but I've seen studies that show that children from homes where the family doesn't regularly eat dinner together have decreased grades and an increased tendency to have social adjustment issues. Sometimes it's as simple as spending that one hour together every day..

It probably has something to do with the difficult time it can be for adolescents and the family "bubble" providing a sense of security.

My wife and I work very diligently to ensure that we do as many things with the kids that we can.

43
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:09pm

Re 39

Agreed. I recall a story I read about two brothers named Winner and Loser (thanks, dad).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner_and_Loser_Lane

But what about 2 people growing up in the same atmosphere who both turn out bad? That's the situation with Reid's sons, and it points to the parents, at least some.

44
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:13pm

Will Allen, There is a difference between "adequate players" and Peyton Manning and that offense.

BB won a superbowl with newbie Tom Brady, Antwain Smith at RB, Troy Brown and Dave Patten at WR, and Otis Smith playing corner against the greatest show on turf. The Pats were 14 point underdogs.

Tony Dungy isn't half of what Belichik is. He wins because he has one of the best quarterbacks ever and NOT because he is some stud defensive coach.

45
by DoubleB (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:22pm

42:

Yes it does. Some jobs just require a lot of time in order to do a good job. To be a successful investment banker or corporate lawyer requires a lot of hours and a lot of time away from one's family. So does being a successful head coach in the NFL. Excluding the bye week, I'm guessing he has zero off days from the opening of camp till the end of the season.

I coach at the lower division collegiate level (i.e.--not on TV) and I put in somewhere between 85-90 hours during the week during the season. Could some of that time be used more efficiently? Probably. But it's not like I'm surfing the internet. You have to break down and study opponent game film, put together a game plan, plan practice, coach practice, watch practice film, watch your game film, etc. This doesn't even include the non-football parts of the job--recruiting calls and visits, administrative duties, road travel, etc. It's a time consuming process.

46
by DoubleB (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:26pm

Chris,

I think Dungy proved a lot this last postseason. That defense doesn't have personnel in the top half of the league and yet they were stellar in the postseason. Dungy didn't outscheme anyone. He just had them executing at an extremely high level.

Also, he took the WORST franchise in football in the mid-90's and made them winners. He deserves a lot of credit for changing the Bucs from laughingstocks into winners.

47
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:29pm

Re 44

"Newbie" Tom Brady is a future Hall of Famer. Troy Brown was a Pro Bowler in 2001. Mike Martz had one of the worst game plans ever.

Every Super Bowl team has good players. Dungy's good players are on the offensive side; most of Belichick good players in 2001 were on the defensive side -- Milloy, Bruschi, Law, McGinest.

Why is this about Dungy vs Belichick anyway? They're both good.

48
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:29pm

Yeah, Chris. Tom Brady sucked. So did Richard Seymour. Bruschi too. And Ty Law. And Lawyer Malloy. And Willie McGinest.

Tony Dungy obviously isn't half the coach that Bill Belichik is. One game proves it. Really.

49
by MCS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:40pm

#45

Delegation.

50
by Pat (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:45pm

#40: How in the world could 23 possibly be considered pushing it? 23 is "just after graduation". I don't think it's unreasonable to expect 2-3 years to settle down, especially if they're working nearby.

(Note that I didn't live at home ever after 18, so this isn't personal).

51
by Yaguar (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:48pm

Tom Brady is one of the best quarterbacks ever because he won three Super Bowls. He's better than Peyton Manning.

Bill Belichik is the best coach ever because he won three Super Bowls without a stud quarterback like Peyton Manning.

The best way to prove one of your favorite players or coaches is good: denigrate the rest of his team, whether it's warranted or not.

52
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:53pm

I'm not much for telling people how they should interact with their families, and even if I were, I doubt there is a noticeable spike in heroin use among 23 year olds still living with their parents, as opposed to 23 year olds who don't.

53
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:55pm

DoubleB #31:

How could he be a good father? He’s never home. Someone above thought he worked 3000 hours a year. I bet it tops 4000 (average to 80 hours/week).

Well, Andy did have enough time to attend his sons football games in high school, which are always in the middle of the professional football season. I don't think you have any idea at all how much time Reid does or does not spend on the job, so its highly irresponsible to speculate that he must spend 80 hours a week at work year round, and therefore, he is never home with his kids.

Based on the little we know, I think we can make an assumption that he isn’t a good father: I don’t think his kids decided to up and use heroin that day.

Undoubtedly they did not. One of the main problems here though is that they attended what is possibly one of the most drug-saturated set of high schools in the state - Lower Merion and Harriton Highs. Obviously this is a problem with the types of friends they got involved with at these schools, which have been notorious for student drug problems and drug dealing (on account of the wealth of the parents being misspent by the kids).

morganja #37:

Well, as far as being a good father, one has to wonder that if his two sons over 18 are livng at home and have new SUV’s and money for guns and drugs.

The firearms, from what we have gathered from local news reports, consisted of a pistol given Britt Reid by his uncle while he was in college in Arizona, and a shotgun which could be purchased for about $150 at Kmart. I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary about him possessing them. My own younger brother has had 5 firearms since he was 22 from his own purchases and from some guns he happened to find in the wall of my mother's new home while doing rennovations - he certainly isn't involved in drugs either. Money for drugs is easy enough to come by in a rich family from big allowances or simply stealing money left around the house. That's why so many rich kids use drugs.

DrewTS #40:

Does anyone know if the sons went to college or had jobs or whatever? Or were they just rich kids running amok?

Reports have been that they were attending classes at Montgomery County Community College while living at home. They had apparently been in school at Arizona State (Britt) and BYU (Garrett) previously.

DrewTS #43:

But what about 2 people growing up in the same atmosphere who both turn out bad? That’s the situation with Reid’s sons, and it points to the parents, at least some.

I don't know how you can say that. Andy Reid also has 3 other teenaged children, and there have been no allegations of misconduct against any of them.

From reports, it appears that just one son has a drug use problem - Garrett - who has admitted to heroin use and who has had previous drug issues with the law in Utah. The other son - Britt - got involved in a foolish road-rage incident, where the other driver claims he pointed a pistol at him while sitting in the driver's seat of his car (the search of his car later that day, however, only turned up a shotgun - Britt's pistol was seized from a locked safe at Reid's house, so it is not clear that it was actually in the SUV when the victim claims it was). Britt is also being charged with drug possession, but there is no proof as of right now that these were not the detritus of his older brother's bad habits. Nobody is accusing Britt of using drugs, and he is not admitting to use, unlike Garrett.

The alleged road-rage victim is making all the right moves and noise, from my perspective (and I've been an actual victim of both road rage and a carjacking), to go for a big civil shakedown of Andy Reid and his deep pockets for "mental anguish" and the like because Britt Reid was driving a car registered to his mom. He's claiming he was "robbed of the joy" of his firstborn son's birth a few days later, and now has to "see a psychologist" to deal with his "trauma".

To show you how confused these citizen complaint reports can get though, when I was attacked by a probably drugged-up road-rager, he chased me through suburban New Jersey for about 5 miles before finally trapping me at a red light where he proceeded to jump on the hood and windshield of my car. When I managed to drive away from his assault by jumping the curb and driving through a gas station screaming out of my window for help while the guy ran after me. Despite the pretty obvious nature of the situation, when I found a policeman a couple of miles down the road a few minutes later, he took my statement and then cautioned me that he was not on the look out for the other man at all, but for me and my car, because I allegedly left the gas station without paying for a tank of gas I supposedly pumped. I was only left free to go when I showed him that my tank was almost empty and my windshield freshly cracked. So I take all these police reports of citizen complaints and such with a grain of salt. The courts will straighten it all out.

54
by ToxikFetus (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 5:57pm

How did this turn into a Belichick vs. Dungy debate? Does everything on this site deteriorate into a NE-IND argument?

The real question in this whole mess is how Tara Reid somehow escaped the title of Black Sheep in the Reid clan.

55
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:07pm

DoubleB #45:

To be a successful investment banker or corporate lawyer requires a lot of hours and a lot of time away from one’s family.

That's silly. Just because a lot of them work long hours and many people expect them to work long hours doesn't mean you MUST work long hours to be successful at it, nor does it mean they work 8 hours per week year round. I have friends in both professions, and none of them are working even 60 hour weeks. An 80 hour week is 11.5 hours a day, 7 days per week. Having pulled 80 hour weeks as an Engineer, I can assure you almost nobody works at that rate very long, whatever they claim to do.

So does being a successful head coach in the NFL. Excluding the bye week, I’m guessing he has zero off days from the opening of camp till the end of the season.

Having no normal days off is a bit different than working non-stop every waking hour. Just because you might work every day for football season doesn't mean you work all day every day, nor does it mean you work all day every day year-round. Some days are obviously busier (Tu for prep, W/Th/F for practice), other days are not. I'd like to see an actual coach with family's actual typical schedule before making such sweeping statements.

Andy Reid certainly has outside interests (like maintaining and operating his classic cars, or attending his sons football games) that could not be indulged without time off during what you are supposing are normal work hours for a 3000-4000 hour per year work schedule.

56
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:08pm

ToxikFetus:

Tara Reid is an Eagles fan too!

57
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:21pm

Double D- I respect that your coaching D3 ( I presume football). I wouldn't say Dungy turned the Bucs around, I would say that the GM who brought in all of those players turned the team around. That Bucs defense was stacked to the max with a roster full of defensive pro prowlers. Now that Dungy doesn't have that stacked defense full of talent, we get to see that it was the talent and not this revolutionary scheme called the " cover 2".

Don't you think a ball control offense led by Peyton helped the defense in the post season? There was a drive where they held the ball 7 minutues at the end of the Ravens game and scored, that takes a lot of pressure off that defense. It's not like Manning had a 2 play scoring drive and then threw his tired defense back onto the field, they play a slower paced offense to shield that crappy defense.

And NO, BB isn't better than Dungy because of 1 game. Dungy had been losing big game after big game, while BB seems to bring out his best against the best competition. I just highlighted the 2001 Rams superbowl because that effort was nothing short of Genis ( They won as 14 point underdogs!). It is easy to tout Brady now, but back then he wasn't even the starter for one full year and he had Smith as his RB and was chucking passes to David Patten.

58
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:24pm

I am not a Pats for or Colts fan, but if you think Dungy is even close to as good as BB then your heavily biased.

32 out of 32 GMs ( including Bill Polian) would rather have the guy in the sweatshirt on the sidelines in a heart beat.

59
by Andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:25pm

It bears saying on this topic that Andy Reid is more known for coming in to work early (4:30 AM) than staying late and/or sleeping in the office every night.

I'm not sure I see a big difference between going to work very early (like 5 AM) or just early (say 7-7:30 AM). I get to work most days by 7:15 AM and rarely see my family doing anything in the morning besides sleeping. If I left 3 hours earlier (and so worked a 12 hour day), I don't see how that would affect the normal time I might spend with my family in the evening.

60
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:28pm

Re 53

I don't know how you can say that. Andy Reid also has 3 other teenaged children, and there have been no allegations of misconduct against any of them.

If they're minors, you probably wouldn't hear much about anything, unless it was really bad. Reid's two ADULT children are both in trouble with the law.

Re 50

I said 23 was starting to push it. My meaning was that, at 23, one should be making some sort of strides toward moving out. If 23 turns into 25, then you're officially pushing it.

61
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:41pm

Chris, you do realize that you're original post was bitching that an abject failure wasn't being given the benefit of the doubt like 2 of the 3 winningest coaches in the league, right?
(1)Dungy-0.637
(2)Gibbs-0.635
(3)Reid-0.620
I really hope you see how moronic that is.

62
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:48pm

Re 58

32 out of 32 GMs (including Bill Polian) would rather have the guy in the sweatshirt on the sidelines in a heart beat.

You polled them? Awesome! Post a link.

If you want to say that Manning and the offense helped out the defense, I agree. But one could just as easily point to the Chiefs game, and 7 consecutive 3-and-outs forced by the defense when the offense was off-track. I'm not dogging the offense, but the 2nd half against NE was the only time in the whole playoffs where the offense was really hitting on all cylinders. Defense carried the day against KC and Baltimore.

Once again, why did this become a Dungy/Belichick debate? Spurrier sucks.

63
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 6:51pm

Can it be required that people write a short paragraph or two explaining the concept of sample size before they start posting in this forum?

64
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 7:10pm

61: I think that Chris's original post may not have had the most benign intent...

65
by DoubleB (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 7:10pm

Andrew,

I have friends in both professions as well (investment banking/corporate lawyer) and they work 80+ hours a week. Maybe they're lying. Both are pretty high up in their respective companies and are very well compensated for their work.

I can tell you from experience that coaches work those hours. Maybe it's a lot different in the pros, but I doubt it. Is the offseason easier? In college you have recruiting, spring workouts, and spring ball, etc. In the pros, it's free agency, the draft, minicamps, and so on. It might be easier than the grind of the regular season, but it's still a lot of time away from your family.

Regarding attending your son's football games--that's 10 games at 3 hours a game on a Friday night. That's not hard to fit into any schedule (even a coach's).

I'm not stating that Andy Reid is a bad person. Quite the contrary. I am stating that being a "family man" requires you to be with your family and that the time demands of his job make it very difficult for him to do that.

66
by Trogdor (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 7:12pm

Warning: completely off-topic, but necessary

Let's indulge the troll for a second, and just assume that Belichick is far and away a better coach than Dungy. Don't bother arguing, let's just grant the point and go from there. This means that, at best, Dungy is only the 2nd-best football coach in the world. Wow. The shame. Man, that moron who somehow gets his team to the playoffs every year and just won the freaking Super Bowl must truly be wetting himself in fear that one day we will all realize that he's not the absolute best at something. Poor guy, I truly pity him when we all realize that he's only better at his job than, at best, 99.99999% of the world. What an abject failure he must be! Oh, who would ever want that loser coaching his team! Man, that Dungy sucks!

I mean, look at the evidence. His teams keep winning, but we know he's a lousy coach because he doesn't work 238 hours a week, so we can only assume that his teams keep winning in spite of him. I bet all the Colts fans are so happy the team finally chose to ignore him or something this year, and let the sublime talents of Jason David and Cato June carry them to the championship, despite their pitiful coach's best efforts.

Oh, in case you can't tell, I'm being somewhat sarcastic. Normally I wouldn't think this was a problem, but given the incredible intellect shown in previous posts, I thought I might have to spell it out.

I apologize to the rest of the forum, and now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

67
by Will Allen (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 7:18pm

That's pretty funny, Trogdor.

68
by MRH (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 7:28pm

You have to understand: when Dungy wins, it's all the talent the GM has given him, but when he loses, it's just his own damn fault.

And Spurrier was just a misunderstood genius who took an 8-8 team, coming off a 7-2 finish, one game out of the playoffs, and with his hand-picked drafted QB and backups from Gator-land took it to 7-9 (2 1/2 games out of the playoffs) and 5-11 (cue Mora Sr. tape).

69
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 7:47pm

Re 64

I'm beginning to agree. I missed that before and foolishly attempted to steer it towards "they're both good."

Now I'm beginning to wonder. I'm not going to use the R-word, but there's a dislike of Dungy going on there that transcends rational discussion.

70
by langsty (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 8:45pm

yeah it's pretty obvious what chris' agenda is, i think we'd all be better off ignoring him.

71
by MFurtek (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 9:04pm

I'd rather disagree with the guy who says 23 is too old to be living at home. It seems that there's a high percentage of young-folk now that are living with their parents. Might have been a report on CNN that said it was something like 40%.

I really don't know what this means, some are probably poor leaches, but others are probably hard-working college grads working near the same big city as their parents who realize, "Why should I waste $1200+ a month on an apartment when I can save that money by living at home." Sure, some parents could charge rent, but there are definite savings involved... of course there is some "independence" and "responsibility" involved in the trade.

Point I wanted to make: Seems like nowadays "pushing it" is closer to 30 than 25.

72
by andrew (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 9:42pm

The guy has 5 kids... if the other 3 turn out alright, that's a 60% winning percentage, good enough for the NFC.

73
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 9:48pm

Re 71

Well, technically I said that 23 is the point at which someone should, at a minimum, be making progress toward moving out. My personal opinion is that 25 is the arbitrary point at which one crosses the line from "saving money" to "leeching." Moving out of your parents' house is part of becoming an independent adult.

Other's may have a different perspective, based on their personal experiences. I live in Indianapolis, and housing is just not that expensive here. My first solo apartment was a one-bedroom one-bath, in a decent but not great complex, and it was $620 a month in 1999. Judging by your estimate of $1,200 a month rent for an apartment, I'd guess you live somewhere more expensive (or your tastes are more extravagant than mine).

30 is really too old though. I remember seeing a TV show about that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_A_Life_%28tv%29

74
by Snoop (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 10:06pm

I wish Reid well and commend his decision, but if a son is a heroin addict one month may not make much difference. It is a long, long process, with many small ups and downs along the way.

23 is not too old to be living at home, but it is too old if you are up to no good and driving a shiny SUV that you didn't pay for.

75
by TI86 (not verified) :: Mon, 02/12/2007 - 11:24pm

I'd rather watch the crappy Pro Bowl for seven hours straight than read some of this crap. What idle nonsense it is for a collection of football fans to judge whether Andy Reid is a good father or whether 23 is too old to live at home. Of course I'm guilty of reading this babble, so whatever.

76
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Tue, 02/13/2007 - 12:47am

You're right. We should really be discussing this week's coming matchup of No One vs No One.

77
by oldnumberseven (not verified) :: Tue, 02/13/2007 - 1:54am

#76
I have it on good inside information that No Ones' QB is on steroids and is going to be suspended before the game. Therefore, I am putting my money on the other No One.

78
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Tue, 02/13/2007 - 12:56pm

Re: 76 & 77

I don't know about you guys but the o/u of 1 is just screaming "under" to me.

79
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Tue, 02/13/2007 - 2:04pm

And BTW, this isn't really a Leave of Absence. Reid is still going to be in contact with the team, he just won't be in the office or at the Combine. Really, all this does is keep him away from the media for a month while he takes care of his family business.

80
by Mr. Beefy (not verified) :: Tue, 02/13/2007 - 3:10pm

I have an idea. He should have a Hall of Fame football player cum role model talk to his sons about drugs. That person would be Michael Irvin. :).

81
by mmm... sacrilicious (not verified) :: Thu, 02/15/2007 - 12:29am

#80: After your first sentence, I immediately thought, "What about LT?"

82
by Sundown (not verified) :: Thu, 02/15/2007 - 1:13am

#53: This should move us past speculation and establish Reid as a bona fide workaholic. (BTW, these stories have been reported on for years and he's never refuted any of them to my knowledge.)

Quotes below from the linked column in the NY Daily News.

Holmgren said Reid used to show up at the Packers' offices at 4:30 in the morning. Jon Gruden did the same when he worked for Holmgren. "Sometimes I felt it was a competition who would get there earliest," Holmgren said. "Andy works very hard at the job."

Reid is a grinder. He still puts in long hours at the Eagles complex, occasionally sleeping in his office.

83
by MJB (not verified) :: Thu, 02/15/2007 - 12:25pm

RE: #82

Yes Andy Reid and Jon Gruden did both show up really early in the morning when they worked for the Packers. The only difference is Andy Reid would leave a few hours later so he could have breakfast with his family, and then return to work.

Just to site my source: Philadelphia’s Comcast Sports network show: “Daily News Live� on 2/12/07, Philadelphia Daily News Sports Writer Rich Hofmann. And his statement was a direct rebuttal to that very quote.

Just so you don't think that I am pulling this out of my butt.

84
by Jeff (not verified) :: Thu, 02/15/2007 - 3:22pm

RE: 34
Chris,

I think that Coach Dungy just proved his mettle this postseason( not that he had much to prove in the first place). For starters, if you saw the playoffs from start to finish you will notice just how POORLY Peyton Manning played. He threw 3 TD's vs 7 Ints. What bailed out Manning was his offensive line, his running game AND his defense. If you recall the KC game Manning threw a HORRIBLE Int to Ty Law that was returned to the Colts 5 yard line. The DEFENSE stiffened up and prevented the Chiefs from scoring.So it went for the rest of the playoffs. Also as others have pointed out the Colts defense
is stacked with late round draft choices and free agents. The Colts defense will never have great talent so they will never be " great " And when they do deveolp good players the Colts tend to let them leave via free agency. Dungy should be commended for forging a defense that COULD and DID win a Superbowl. Even with a serious lack of talent. If you hate Coach Dungy that is fine but at least get the facts of why he won correct.