Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

25 Mar 2007

Monday Night Jaws

Pro Football Talk is reporting that Joe Theismann is out on Monday Night Football, replaced by... yes, official friend-of-FO Ron Jaworski. Maybe Monday did, actually, just become something worth waiting for. (UPDATE MONDAY: Yep, it's official.)

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 25 Mar 2007

80 comments, Last at 29 Mar 2007, 1:03am by SteveNC

Comments

1
by Joe Rowles (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 4:32pm

Grats to Jaws cant wait to see what you got!

2
by Sophandros (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 4:32pm

That's a good thing, though, because I think that he brings a lot more to the table than Theisman did, and he may not be as fake with Kornheiser.

3
by Bobman (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 4:45pm

Bill,

Your headline kind of sucked--When I first saw it I assumed there was some terrible car crash or something. Or Bradshaw's ego ran amock and mangled a few geusts at some football banquet.

He's shred Tony K and call BS on his BS. Which will be funny.

I mean this is great news and all (and all and all) but I was worried for the big lug for a few seconds. Quit f@cking with my head now.

4
by James C (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 4:54pm

If we are going to get Jaws providing quality insight then why would we need Kornheiser or pointless (and annoying) celebrity spots?

No one who would other wise turn football off is going to watch it because there might be a lame interview with a D list celebrity part way through.

Other than my little gripe, WOO HOO!!!

MNF may begin to be as viewable as SNF (although without the headline games). What the lower tier games will mean is that we will get quality insight into less well known players, should be great.

Madden, Jaworski and Carlson, late night football in the UK is going to be sweet next year.

God I wish it was September already.

5
by Tom Kelso (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 4:55pm

Great for Jaws, great for thinking football fans; so why does the headline make it sound like he has cancer? Tirico's not THAT bad.

6
by morganja (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 5:42pm

We need Kornheiser so that he can set up Jaworski's alalysis. He plays the everyday fan who doesn't understand the game as completely but can ask the guy who knows more than almost anyone for an explanation.

I like Kornheiser. I would rather have Wilbon, but Kornheiser is very good at what he does, which is not be an in-depth X's and O's guy talking to the hard-core fans. He makes the game accessible to the casual fan. His speech before the first New Orleans home game on monday night was a classic. I still have that game recorded and listen to it every now and again.

7
by Bill Barnwell :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 5:58pm

headline changed - apologies

8
by Mac (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 6:31pm

What was the original title?

9
by throughthelookingglass (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 6:45pm

This is great news if it's true.

10
by Marko (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 6:52pm

Hooray, Jaws!

And I'll second Mac's request for someone to tell latecomers to this thread (like me) what the original headline was.

11
by Insancipitory (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 7:13pm

Original Headline: "Everyone Pray for Jaws."

12
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 7:16pm

Well, I guess this means my soul got to Satan in one piece.

13
by Brian (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 8:36pm

Doubly blessed - get rid of the grating Theisman, replace with the insightful Jaworski. Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty we're free at last!!

14
by KevinWho (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 9:36pm

This is great news.

But let's not rest here, there are still many lousy announcers and teams who remain in the jockocracy, and beyond. We need to keep the pressure on.

Next in my sights: Troy "'Good Job'/'Nice Job'" Aikman and Joe "The Schoolmarm" Buck.

15
by Alex (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 9:52pm

#6: I agree completely. Kornheiser is a very valuable part of the MNF crew not because of what he knows about football, but because of what he doesn't know. But I can understand how it could seem annoying to people who already have a great deal of football expertise.

16
by SJM (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 10:13pm

Re: 14

Aikman actually understands that official NFL statistics are misleading and has attempted to invent his own version of DVOA (basically the NFL passer rating applied to team offense and defense). He just needs a partner who can set him up to talk about the deeper level of the game.

17
by Pat (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 10:14pm

#14: Mother of God, no! Simms next. I nearly killed myself screaming at him during the Super Bowl.

Buck and Aikman aren't good, but Simms approaches Theismann level. It's amazing that two guys who played the game can be so utterly clueless about how it actually works.

18
by centrifuge (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 10:32pm

I totally loved Jaws on his gig last year, but I think this question needs to be asked: are there any Eagles games on the MNF lineup this season, and will Tirico be equipped with a taser that night?

"Damnit Ron, say SOMETHING about the Giants!"
"But Donovan McNa--BZZZZT!"

19
by Tom (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 11:23pm

I agree, I like Aikman, but Joe Buck needs to go. Simms is terrible. Looks like I know who I'll be voting worst broadcasting team next year.

20
by MC2 (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 11:24pm

This is great news! Now, if we could just get Vermeil to replace Kornheiser...

To all those who say we need Tony to set up Jaws and make the game "accessible", that's what the play-by-play guy is for. No other booth features a token idiot (well, except Siragusa).

21
by Podpeople (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 11:38pm

siragusa may be an idiot, but he adds something sometimes (analyzing blocking schemes in the Eagles Saints game). The superbowl was so poorly announced this year, I wanted to punch myself in the face.

By the way, did anyone notice that the Eagles play NO away AGAIN this year?

22
by Marko (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 11:45pm

"Buck and Aikman aren’t good, but Simms approaches Theismann level. It’s amazing that two guys who played the game can be so utterly clueless about how it actually works."

I don't think that's the problem with Simms and Theismann or many of the other former players in the booth as analysts. (But it is with Bill Maas, who seems clueless about pretty much everything.) Simms, like many analysts, spouts cliches, focuses on star players and says obvious things without providing any real insight.

Theismann does similar things, but is even more annoying because he constantly contradicts himself, often within minutes. I remember during the Bears game in Arizona this year, he said one thing about Rex Grossman, and then he said the exact opposite thing about Grossman a few plays later on the same drive. Perhaps he does that because he worked for so long with Paul Maguire, who does the same thing.

23
by primantis (not verified) :: Sun, 03/25/2007 - 11:52pm

This is good news, but I am still probably going to mute the sound because of Kornheiser. It makes me sad that some people think we need an "everyman" to play dummy in the booth. Have our expectations been lowered this far? We need people in the booth who are best in the world in terms of understanding and articulatating the nuances of the game.

I'm not a fan of attacking people on message boards, but #6 is just an incredibly dumb comment.

24
by Mac (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 1:31am

Re: 11
Thanks.

25
by morganja (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:22am

Re: 23
Dumb comment... Well, I think you are absolutely right. The NFL needs to get rid of all those stupid marginal fans who are trying to understand the game. Either you are a hard-core fan, who knows everything there is to know about the game, or you don't have the right to watch football. If I was you I would march right up to NFL headquarters and show them how to save their sport from this multi-billion dollar business model and return it to the REAL FANS, like in hockey.

26
by Alex (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:35am

Re #23:
"We need people in the booth who are best in the world in terms of understanding and articulatating the nuances of the game."

But the problem is that if we have only experts in the booth, they don't bother explaining the things that people want to learn about, because they assume that everyone already knows it (after all, they all know it). And since they don't think they need to explain much about the game, they spend their time in the booth throwing out cliches, stroking their own egos, and being generally intolerable.

We do need experts, which is why Jaws would be so awesome. But we also need someone who isn't an expert and is willing to ask lots of questions, because it keeps the experts focused on doing what they do best, providing analysis and insights into the game.

Maybe Jaws wouldn't need Kornheiser, maybe he'd do fine, stay focused on analysis, and know what things people needed help understanding, without being prompted. But even if he is that good, it still helps to have someone to explain things to, and you can't really do that if everyone in the booth already knows what you're trying to explain.

Here's an example that I think will help get my point across:

Say you walk into the first day of an introductory physics course, and find out that Einstein, Neils Bohr, and Richard Feynman are teaching the course together. The three of them begin a detailed discussion of the intricacies of quantum entanglement. Wouldn't it be nice if some guy raised his hand and asked them a question about one of the more basic concepts, so that everyone could learn about those ideas and be able to understand the more complicated ones? Kornheiser is that guy. It's not that he's special, or particularly knowledgeable, it's that he's curious and he's not afraid to ask questions that others might be embarrassed to ask.

On the other hand, if you already know all the basics, you'd probably tire quickly of going over them again, and stop listening. That's understandable, but try to realize that most people who watch MNF don't know as much as you do about football, and would likely benefit greatly from having someone like Kornheiser ask Jaws about some of the more basic ideas before he gets into the deep, complicated analysis. If you feel the need to mute your TV, I wouldn't blame you. But don't act like everyone else is just supposed to know everything already, when much of the audience is made up of casual fans who don't know a ton about the game, but want to learn more.

Sorry for the really long post.

27
by Marko (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 5:21am

"To all those who say we need Tony to set up Jaws and make the game 'accessible', that’s what the play-by-play guy is for."

Very well said. We don't need an everyman to play dummy in the booth. Madden and Michaels do fine on NBC without one, and Fox and CBS may have their problems with their announcing teams, but not having a third person to interject irrelevant or inane questions/comments is not one of them.

That's the problem with Kornheiser on MNF - he seems proud of the fact that he isn't an expert and claims not to know a lot about certain players or teams, so he asks stupid questions and brings up things that have nothing to do with the game. (I think he knows a lot more than he lets on, however.) His comments take the focus away from the game a lot of the time, as did Dennis Miller's comments during his stint on MNF. Of course, this appears to be consistent with ESPN's annoying practice of interviewing celebrities for interminable periods during the games.

26: The great thing about Jaws is that he is very good at providing insightful analysis without resorting to jargon and terminology that will go over the heads of the average viewers. He explains things in a way that makes it easy to follow, and he wouldn't need Kornheiser asking questions to do so.

One more thing: The three man group of physics lecturers you mentioned wouldn't work well. I would stick with Einstein and Bohr. Feynman would be extraneous, although perhaps he could be used like a sideline reporter.*

*Comment comes from someone who hasn't studied physics since high school and is made purely for humorous purposes.

28
by eagletom (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 6:38am

Holmes needs his Watson, you know.

I think the everyman approach is sometimes really useful. That's often how the sport's been presented in the UK- a british guy asking questions, and an American expert (usually Mike Carlson, for the last few years) answering them. It makes more sense over here, I guess, as the UK fanbase will have less knowledge than their US equivalents, but I can definitely see the advantages of that approach.

29
by Mr B (Nottingham, UK) (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 7:20am

Do we in the UK know what Channel 5's plans are for football come September? Hopefully to do nothing different and leave us to enjoy it.

Please don't lose Carlson...He's he most informative and detailed football analyst bar none.

30
by Paul (London,UK) (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 8:29am

#29 I e-mailed Five to ask them the same question. The reply while lacking in detail suggested that they would be looking to continue coverage subject to terms etc. Anything that keeps SNF and MNF out of the clutches of Sky has to be a good thing.

Assuming that Five are successful and that they retain Mike Carlson (two outcomes that all right thinking UK viewers pray for), they could do a lot worse than get Gary Imlach to host it. If anybody has any doubts about how bad things could be, I give you Colin Murray.

It must be in the NFL's interest for the game to have a presence on UK terrestrial television if they wish to spread the gospel.

31
by Alex (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:27am

"One more thing: The three man group of physics lecturers you mentioned wouldn’t work well. I would stick with Einstein and Bohr. Feynman would be extraneous, although perhaps he could be used like a sideline reporter.*"

Very true, I was just trying to get to three people, and added Feynman because I figured he'd be good for a few funny or interesting comments per discussion.

32
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:33am

As long as this doesn't cut into his film-breakdown time, I'm pretty happy about this. Although I'm afraid that the contrast between Jaws and the 2 remaining buffoons may actually make the booth even more intolerable (if that's physically possible).

33
by eagletom (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:37am

euch, colin murray.

(makes protective sign against evil)

34
by Joe T (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:50am

3 in the booth is kind of crowded IMO. Dump Kornheiser and have Tirico provide play-by-play and be Jaworski's inquisitor. I don't see the need in an "everyman" because Jaws is good about explaining everything in plain English, but if you have to have one, have one with original insights like Mike Wilbon - but he actually might be too opinionated.

35
by Joe T (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:53am

Re 25 - you mean the "real" hockey fans in Carolina, Tampa, Arizona, San Jose, Nashville, etc?

36
by Karl Cuba (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:10am

Three steps:
1) Read headline
2) Put on 'Ode to Joy'
3) Sit back and smile

37
by RMGreen (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:16am

Sounds great. I can't wait to get Jaws on every week. I wonder if he'll get compromised by the ESPN producers though. I doubt that all of the 'Three Stooges' antics weren't encouraged by the production crew. What if the voice in Jaws' earpiece keeps saying "Push the stars! Get back to the storyline!" We'll have to see.

Personally, I think that Kornheiser isn't an idiot, and he'll do much better when he doesn't have to share the booth with one.

38
by PhillyCWC (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:38am

Re 21 - Yes, I also noticed that Philly plays NO at the Superdome again in 2007. In my opinion, not quite fair since they played there 2x in 2006. But we'll have to see how the schedule shakes out - I think it comes out next week???

39
by Mikey (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:00am

21 and 38 -

What is the league supposed to do? That's the formula. The 2006 PHL-NO game was part of the regular intraconference rotation that will produce a NO-PHL game in 2009.

This year's game is based on last year's record and South hosts East. If the Saints and Eagles finish in the same position this year, then Philly will host the Saints in back to back years in 2008 (position) and 2009 (rotation).

40
by primantis (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:08am

39 - I also fail to see how it is "not fair" for the Eagles to have to play in NO this year.

25 - You don't need a guy in the booth to play dummy and say "Jaws - explain this one to me". Jaws is fully aware that his job is both to educate the uninformed masses and also speak to die hards like us. If ESPN insists that they do need such a dummy I will volunteer right now to accept 1/10 of what they are paying Korny (and I guarantee that I can be much funnier (not saying much)).

41
by JasonK (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:55am

It's official: Tirico, Kornheiser, Jaworski (link)

42
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:56am

"One more thing: The three man group of physics lecturers you mentioned wouldn’t work well. I would stick with Einstein and Bohr. Feynman would be extraneous, although perhaps he could be used like a sideline reporter"

In this context I would have to completely disagree with you. Feynman was celebrated as a fantastic teacher, often able to communicate the most complicated ideas in a way that almost anyone could understand. Einstein and Bohrs clearly stand higher in thier contributions, but I can't imagine a genius like Dr. Feynman being "extraneous" in any learning situation.

43
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:59am

See I'm not just bad jokes and messing with trolls, me smart too!

44
by Marko (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 12:26pm

42/43: I was completely joking and made my comment about the proposed three man group of physics teachers without ever having heard of Feynman before reading #26. So maybe I'm as bad as you at humor :>.

45
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 12:48pm

Well to be honest if I was taking a class with Einstein and Bohrs (in Nerd Heaven perhaps) I would probably need Feynman there just to pass. That said, Tony Comb-over is no Richard Feynman.

46
by Nemesis (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 12:59pm

To Do list
Irvin - toast
Theisman - gone
Patrick - Arizona vs Detroit for eternity.
Maguire - covering NFL in Sri Lanka.
Joe Buck - see you soon!

47
by RMGreen (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 1:30pm

Eagles fans (myself included) should know better than to complain about having to travel to NO again in any space where a Green Bay fan might hear. How many years in a row did GB play at least one game in Philly? This year we're finally playing them in GB.

48
by eagletom (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:10pm

re: 45. I'm pretty sure we all knew that.

49
by Gus (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:13pm

Ah, thank god. This was a long time coming; finally a decent play-breakdown guy on MNF, and now I can die in peace.

50
by JonL (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:24pm

Kornheiser and Jaworski actually have good chemistry together, so I would expect the former's performance to improve as well.

51
by Joe T (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:36pm

The good...
"Ron Jaworski will join Mike Tirico and Tony Kornheiser on the ESPN telecast."

The bad...
"Jaworski replaces Joe Theismann, who has been offered a prominent football analyst job with the network."

And the ugly...
"Michele Tafoya and Suzy Kolber will continue as sideline reporters."

52
by PhillyCWC (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 2:56pm

Re 47 - okay, point taken.

53
by Bobman (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 3:13pm

21,38,39 Indy played 2 or 3 consecutive regular season games in NE and also happened to play two playoff games there in a 3 year span. At one point 5 of six were played in NE (Indy still managed to lose the home game in that span).

On the flip side, if they do not meet in the playoffs for the next few, they will have played 4 consecutive in Indy (last year's AFCC and the next three reg season games). In the short term, it's not "fair" but everything works out in the end.

I think at one point, Jets fans help me here, NYJ traveled to Oakland about twice a season for 2 consec years (incl playoffs)--that's a long road trip--much longer than Ind/NE or Phil/NO. Because of timing of the first reg season game in that span, it was 4 west coast road trips in 14 months. And during all of this head-to-headness, these six teams were all playoff teams, making it tougher on the road teams.

54
by Chris (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 4:05pm

OK, now they need fire...
Joe Buck
Bryant Gumbel
Chris Collinsworth
Soloman Wilcots
Paul Mcguire
The guy that does the worst games of the week, I believe Ron Pitts is his name.
and Madden must go.

I like Daryl Johnson, Aikman, Jaws, and Al Michaels. Vermiel, Faulk and Sterling Sharpe looked good in thier limited roles as well.

55
by Carlos (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 4:30pm

Back when Kornheiser used to write regularly and sincerely about sports in the WaPo, he used to write columns arguing that Babe Laufenberg should start for the skins.

That's about all you need to know about Tony's football analytics.

56
by SJM (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 5:22pm

Re: 54

Whoa, what's wrong with Collinsworth? He's one of the good ones, I've always thought.

57
by dbt (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 5:45pm

Feynman gave a series of lectures on physics 30 years ago that are still classics in the field.

I think the argument isn't that the broadcast doesn't need to be accessible to people who aren't hardcore, it's that adding someone who jokes about his fantasy team and otherwise is there to interview celebrities (my least proud moment as a bears fan: being represented on the air by Jim Belushi, who promptly cheered over Tirico's play by play and was thrown out of the booth).

58
by Whelk2 (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 6:29pm

44 - Surely you're joking (Mr. Feynman)

59
by Whelk2 (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 6:35pm

Chris - Firing Madden would be like if FSU had fired Bobby Bowden. It might be a good idea (I personally don't think so in either case), but you just can't do it in good conscience.

60
by Marko (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 6:37pm

I wasn't joking in #44. Why do you think I was?

61
by Jason Mulgrew aka Lord J Rocka (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 6:50pm

Good riddance to the Redskin guy.

An Eag is taking over!!!!!!!!!!!!!

read in Borat voice:
Wa wa wee wa.

62
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 6:55pm

RE 57 Jim Belushi isn't the worst person to represent your team's fans. Joey Lawrence, Brian Knobbs, and that last guy all Eagles fans.

63
by JMM (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 8:03pm
64
by morganja (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:08pm

I have a problem witt most of the announcers, and am very happy to see Theismann gone, but I'm a little tired of this elitist attitude shown by some here. I've played football, studied the game, have been a huge fan of the game and understand a lot more about football than most fans. I hated listening to Theismann, but from time to time he would come out with something intelligent and subtle about the game that I had never really considered before. Jaws will be a huge improvement for a lot of reasons, but if you listen with a little humility sometimes to even people you dislike, you might just learn something.

65
by Marko (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 9:40pm

Sure, on occasion Theismann said something interesting and/or insightful. But I doubt that everyone criticizing Theismann here thinks he NEVER said anything worthwhile. And just because Theismann might have said worthwhile things on occasion doesn't mean that it's unreasonable to want someone who will provide insightful analysis much more consistently.

66
by morganja (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 10:49pm

I totally agree. Jaws is a huge upgrade in every possible way. He is likable to start with, fun, enthusiastic and always has great in-depth analysis. I was very tired of Thiesmann's manlove for Vick, his unfathomable hatred of Ricky Williams, his annoying commentery and insufferable ego. I am very excited about the switch and am looking forward to all three in the box.

I'm just saying that there is a whole lot of criticism from people here who don't seem to be GM's of any football franchises. A little humility goes a long way towards wisdom.

Proverbs: 16:18
'Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.'

67
by KevinWho (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:12pm

And here's morganja, for the jockocracy!

Seriously though, and speaking very broadly, I think those who have played football beyond a certain level are a bit like cops or military. It's such a disciplined, coordinated life that veterans of it are rarely willing to criticize others, past or present, and are often prone to seeing only the good and sort of turning a charitable, blind eye to the bad. For the most part those are understandable and quite admirable qualities, but they ought to never be represented in a broadcast booth.

My pet idea for NFL audio is to have an anonymous roundtable of retired small-college coaches (i.e., knowledgable guys with no butts to kiss) just talking freeform during the game---maybe have each of them focus on certain position groups---and broadcast it on SAP. Sure, it's a fantasy. But if it were real, would any of us here ever listen to the main audio again?

68
by MC2 (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:21pm

Sure, Theismann has made a few insightful comments over the years. Furthermore, he clearly knows a lot more about football than I do. The problem is that he's either unable or unwilling to communicate that knowledge to the viewer, choosing instead to focus on making small talk and second guessing play calls that he had just advocated about 2 minutes earlier. In other words, it's not worth sifting through all the crap to find the occasional pearl of wisdom.

Over the last few years, I've picked some good sleepers in my fantasy draft, but that doesn't mean I deserve a job as an NFL scout. After all, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

69
by Adam H. (not verified) :: Mon, 03/26/2007 - 11:49pm

Alright, maybe this is a function of my not having a football team at my high school (I was a wrestler pretty much year round anyway,) but what the hell is a Jockocracy? Is this rule of the state by athletes, like the citizens of ancient Varsityclubopolis enjoyed?

70
by BadRick (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 7:11am

Feynman's talents exemplify why you don't need somebody lobbing softball questions in order to get coherent, accessible answers.

71
by Wanker79 (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 10:34am

I really hope that all those douchebags that just dismiss FO because we're just a bunch of nerds never get their hands on this thread. There's like a dozen posts here discussing the voracity of a Tony Kornheiser / Richard Feynman analogy. I love this place!

72
by Gus (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 2:39pm

64: Yes, it's true, some commentators that I don't really like can bring something to the table. Collinsworth comes off as an arrogant twit sometimes, but he's excellent at breaking down the plays. Theisman was generally crappy, but he had his moments. Simms...er...never mind, Simms is just the devil with a bad haircut.

I think really the reason everyone loves this move is not because anyone think Theisman is a horrible person, but because Jaws is one of these "jocks" but is actually smart about his approach to analysis, rather than just falling back on cliche after cliche.

69: Jockocracy would be pretty darn hard to define, I think. However, I think the part of it referred to in this thread is the tendency of former-player commentators falling back on their "expertise" as those who played the game. This tends to coincide with not actually doing any goddamn analysis whatsoever...

73
by Chris (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 2:54pm

I agree Madden is sort of Grandfathered in.

The thing I can't stand about Collinsworth is his habitual criticism of the team that is losing. He really piles it on to whoever is losing like their complete idiots.

"Awww Jeezzz, why are they going and doing that? What are they thinking? They ran a draw on 3rd and long and now they have to punt. Errrr, this team just didn't come out to play today. Why didn't the quarterback throw it away instead of throwing that pick?".

The guy spends his time second guessing the losing team. Do you think they "tried" to make those mistakes Mr. Collinsworth? The best Collinsworth games are the ones where the losing team comes back and wins, because then he turns on 100 percent bashing to the other team.

- Wilcots talks nonstop about quarterback mobility.
- Bryand Gumbel calls Frank Gore "Al Gore", and the play clock the 'shot clock" with that pip squeek little voice of his.
- Paul Mcguire is supposed to play the role of the "average fan", but he's a lot dumber.
- Joe Buck has a great voice but roots for certain teams, bashes certain players constantly, and injects his own "morality" into the game ( randy moss fake mooning incident).

For example, rex Grossman throws his first 4 passes and 2 are dropped by the WR's and Buck will come out and say " Grossman starts out 0/4" (what a horrible day so far.)

74
by Mr B (Nottingham, UK) (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 4:00pm

#29, Thanks for that - some comfort (subject to terms).

Now all I need is four tickets for Wembley.

75
by Sid (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 7:00pm

RE: 53

I think at one point, Jets fans help me here, NYJ traveled to Oakland about twice a season for 2 consec years (incl playoffs)

That was annoying as hell. Jets played at Oakland three times combined in 2002 and 2003.

76
by Mentos Fillapeedios (not verified) :: Tue, 03/27/2007 - 7:56pm

Re: 75

That's just the way the schedule rotation broke. No big deal.
As for the playoff games being in Oakland, it was the Jets fault for not achieving as much as the Raiders achieved in the regular season.

77
by Staubach12 (not verified) :: Wed, 03/28/2007 - 5:09am

Best line from MNF last year was when Jimmy Kimmel appeared as a guest. Just about the first thing he said was: "How's the leg, Joe?" Theismann was not amused.

Later, Kimmel expressed his displeasure with commentators who talk about non-football issues when a play is in progress.

I've never been a big fan of Jimmy Kimmel, but that MNF appearance did it for me.

The Move to Jaws is a good one.

78
by Strange/David (not verified) :: Wed, 03/28/2007 - 12:36pm

#73: "Joe Buck... injects his own “morality� into the game ( randy moss fake mooning incident)."

I have no quibble with the other points, but this one I think has been an unfair criticism about Joe Buck. Every time I hear it, it's about the fake mooning incident.

While I will freely admit to being fairly conservative (especially when it comes to touchdown celebrations), and I'll admit that I didn't like Moss's fake mooning, I don't think it was the moon that bothered Buck. After all, there's a Packer fan tradition of mooning the visiting team's bus as they leave.

If Moss had stopped there, I might have expected Buck to say something along the lines of, "Well, there's something you don't see every day. It'll be interesting to see what the league thinks of that."

Instead, he commented about the fact that it was "disgusting" and that he was sorry people had to see that... but if you were still watching Moss, it was because he didn't stop with the fake mooning. He pretended to wipe his fake-bared-backside on the Packers' goalpost.

Pretending to wipe your butt is disgusting -- and uncalled for. It's crass and immature, and I personally think Buck was within his rights to comment the way he did. The fake mooning was marginal -- the butt-wiping was over the line.

Beyond that, I've never heard Buck "inject" any "morality" into his broadcasts.

Then again, I don't listen to him much (see: all of your other arguments against Buck).

79
by Chris (not verified) :: Wed, 03/28/2007 - 2:07pm

78- I see what your saying but Buck did make his comment BEFORE Moss reached the goal post. He said " that was a disguisting act" right as Moss finished the fake mooning.

Buck really roots for teams and is very biased in his broadcasting. He goes out of his way to point out any wrong doing that Eli Manning, Rex Grossman or TO partake in. These guys could end up having average games, but if all you did was listen to buck ( only pointing out mistakes) you would have thought they would be cut tommorow.

He also hates anything to do with the NY yankees and loves the St. Louis Cardinals. I don't think the announcer should be "cheering" for teams.

He's just overall a pompous jerk. Jimmy Johnson made a comment about how the eagles were "done" when Mcnabb went down. Now that isn't what ended up happening, but it was a very logical thing to say at the time ( the chances of recovery were slim). Buck went on for weeks asking Johnson about that comment. Look JOE, nobody is a fortune teller that has all the answers all the time. Jimmy Johnson won a freaking super bowl with the cowboys and is a good coach. Joe Buck is a second guesser who couldn't coach a pee wee team.

80
by SteveNC (not verified) :: Thu, 03/29/2007 - 1:03am

Re: 75, 76

And if the Jets had simply failed to finish first in their division in 2002, they wouldn't've had to play Oakland in the regular season of 2003 at all.