I don't think you'll find anyone to give you odds on him ending up with the Pats.

Given his recent medical concerns here's one Dolfan hoping he heads to a happy, healthy retirement.

I don't know if the Pats would want him. I know they like their veteran linebackers, but he is one big hit away from being scrambled eggs. After Belichick copped some heat from Teddy Johnson who blames him for making him play through concussions, I am not sure the Pats will want that kind of trouble again.

OK, I'll start it:

Is he a Hall of Famer? I'd say probably yes, but I'm not 100% sure.

Exactly how many players do the Dolphins have left that anyone has ever heard of?

I think he was still outstanding as recently as last season, and this season it was only because of his injury problems that he didn't shine.

I'd put him in the Hall, no question, but then there is a large backlog of deserving LBs waiting to go in (and they choose Harry Carson and Andre Tippett? I'll never understand these guys).

Thomas was great five years ago. The last three years, just another "smart player with lots of heart." Mike Alstott in teal.

What's up, Dolphins? We going for the 0-16 dream season or what?

I haven't seen much of Zach Thomas, but looking over his stats, he played 11 seasons, had 17 ints, and 19.5 sacks, and a 7 time probowler. That sounds like a hall of fame career to me.

#5: Ted Ginn Jr.

He was one of 3 players in history with 100+ tackles in 10 straight seasons. He was the anchor of a defense that got the Dolphins to multiple playoffs during bad offense years. He was a model leader on and off the field with never a whiff of trouble. And he was Larry Izzo's roommate.

Yes, that's a Hall of Famer.

#5: They haven't traded Jason Taylor. Yet.

#8: The Dolphins are stockpiling cap space now. Expect them to trade Jason Taylor. I also think they're creating false noise around drafting Matt Ryan so Atlanta will do a deal for the pick.

I'd expect another 1-15 season, but there are two types of those -- the hopeful, building type (like Dallas in JJ/Aikman's first year), and the hopeless, non-building type (the 2007 Dolphins).

#5,10,11:

ronnie brown. was on his way to quite a season before the inevitable ronnie brown midseason injury.

this makes me sick. you don't cut zach thomas. i don't care what his salary cap number is. he plays last year and i'm convinced we win 2 more games. this team is responsible for 95% of the misery in my life. they are going to kill me. and i'm 23 years old.

I hate to be a boo bird but I never really thought of Thomas as Hall of Fame good. He was a good player on a good defense but not near the quality of guys like Mike Singletary or Ray Lewis. Another guy for the Hall of very good for my mind.

I watched some Fins games the past few years with a critical eye for Zach Thomas. I wanted to see if I could put a fork in him and say he's done, but I just couldn't. Even week 1 against the Deadskins this year had to prove critics wrong.

He is short, and I have always maintained that he is NOT a very good LB at all in pass coverage ( and I will still maintain that), but the guy has an instinct for reading a play and attacking it.

He IS one of the hardest hitting LB's in the league. Maybe that is a function of his lack of height and lower center of gravity, but the guy is like a heat seaking missle. He finds the "impact zone" very early on, squares his shoulders and attacks.

Remember when Jimmy J drafted him? He was a later round pick that nobody wanted because of his height. Thomas is a classic overachiever and it must be a sad day for Fins fans because I didn't see much of a drop off at all from Thomas.

But then again, king Tuna Fish is the best and brightest in the business and he will certainly turn around Miami.

My thoughts:

This had to be done. You hate to do it to such a great player who has been with you for so long, but from a team standpoint, it had to be done.
He just hasn't been very effective the past couple of years, and that was when he could get on the field.

Hall of Fame: Yes. I don't think he is one of those clear cut, first ballot guys, but I think he is pretty sure HOFer.

Jason Taylor: I expect him to be traded. It is only a matter of time.

He would make a wonderful backup on the Giants, if he would be willing to take the step down in pay to play for the Super Bowl champions.

It really doesn't make any sense to not auction off Taylor. If they draft a qb, the next order of business is to get some quality o-linemen in the development pipeline. I've always hated the "kill the first round qb" theory of roster construction. Let Beck get the crap kicked out of him for a year or two, while the o-line solidifies, then let Ryan have the ball. If Beck is the exceptional, once in a generation, guy who can bloom despite getting hammered week in and week out, great, it just gives you more roster flexibility.

Re: 13
If the best thing you can say about the guy is that he could have made your 1 win team a 3 win team then you are better off showing him the door. I always thought that he was a bit over-hyped. A good player on a good team. Jason Taylor is the star of that defense.

I really dont think he is a HOFer. He has been very good or great, but if I had to take 5-6 Linebackers from the last 8-10 years he would not make it (and any more than that and you are just diluting the pool). I would say that Brooks, Seau, Lewis, Urlacher are way above him and that he is similar to Wilson, Bullocks, Brookings, Spikes, maybe Porter and Peterson. They were good, and team leaders, but not truly great like those above them in my opinion

Among the linebackers whose primes coincided with Thomas's, the only ones that have definitely had better careers are Lewis and Derrick Brooks. Thomas is a couple of notches below them, which should still make him a hall of famer.

Crap, and Seau. Still doesn't change my opinion.

Except if it were Spikes, Bullocks, Wilson or Brookings retiring, no one would even be thinking about the Hall.

With a schedule including the Jets twice, the entire NFC and AFC West, and the Ravens, there's no way this team will go 1-15 again.

re4
definitelly not. z Thomas just not good enough. not even as good as old Raider great M Millen. maybe when HOf stops screwing Raiders, Z Thomas can make a case for himself. C Branch, Stbaler, Ray Guy, Millen, L Hayes all belong in HOf.

What the hell...

I mean, that's really what he deserves? Really? After giving his all to this franchise, you're RELEASING him?

I know it's for the good of the team, but this sucks. You don't just show the door to guys like him.

I think Zach Thomas is a HOFer....he is one of the last remaining MLB that prides himself on stopping the run and through his 11 year career he is one of the only linebackers that doesn't care about the "big hit" that seau , ray lewis and urlacher types go for and end up missing the tackle...he is Mr. Consistency and deserves a spot in the hall

25:

Deserve has nothing to do with it. What else would you have them do? Continue to pay big money to a 34 year old player in serious decline who will be lucky to see the field for half the season?

I mean, I like the guy as much as anyone, and as a fan, I hate that it had to be done, but really, it just isn't practical to keep him.

Any odds on who wins the inevitable Jason Taylor sweepstakes? (And do they get the giant robot Taylor used to advertise the London game?)

Man this sucks. I have to buy a new Jersey now!

Seriously, while it's a sensible move objectively, as a fanboy I don't like it. I'll like the Jason Taylor trade about as much. And if one/both wind up in New England I'll kill someone.

Sorry James, but it makes too much sense not to happen. I'd guess most linebackers in the league would love to play for Belichick if they had the chance. If Belichick wants Thomas, he'll get him. And he'll then have all the linebacking Thomas's, from A to Z.

#13 Great post. I think every fan feels the same way.

We'll find out, but I think of Thomas as a Dolphins lifer...more Ted Johnson than Junior Seau. If he re-signs at all, it'll probably be with the Dolphins, it'll just have to be a renegotiated (lower) cost. Or retirement.

Overall, this is a good thing.
Cowboys fans, feel free to pipe in on your Parcells experience, but thinking back to the early to mid nineties, every game you'd see a new player making big plays.
The biggest difference about this Dolphins team is that they are only a couple of years removed from a great defense. It'll probably get there again.
All this re-vamping, but we still haven't seen hope in the passing game.
Hmmm...strong defense, outrageously good running game, but no passing game. Sound familiar to anyone?

BTW, I voted for Tedd Ginn, Jr. for break out player of 2008.

Zach Thomas lover with a few thoughts:

1. Classy move by Parcells not to cut him on the same day as Trent Green, Marty Booker, and a bunch of scrubs. He waited a day or two. Zach Thomas is special.

2. Good for Zach. Miami will suck for at least two years. If he feels like he can play, go play for a winner. I hate the Pats, but if he wants to play for them, good for him.

3. Of course he's a HOF'er!!! He is a tackling machine. 7 time Pro-Bowler, 7 times All-Pro, Defensive ROY. Come on! Urlacher would be lucky to have such a long and productive career!

Well said by CC...kind of sums it up for me as well. Bittersweet news for this phins fan. Zach never took a play off.

NBC's Cris Collinsworth: ``It's tough to think of them without their signature player. Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas come out of my mouth the same time I said Miami Dolphins. I assume they'll go to the 3-4 defense, and one of the things Bill Parcells wants are those bigger linebackers -- 240-, 250-pound linebackers that can take on a guard and stuff a hole. He'll be in the [Hall of Fame] discussion. Maybe more so than the Hall of Fame, he's a guy as a former NFL player, you were proud to say that guy was an NFL player. What he delivered to the game exceeded [the gifts] he was born with. He personified the spirit of the league. I can't pay higher tribute to a guy than that.''

Isn't it amusing that Parcells swears up and down that personnel decisions are entirely up to Jeff Ireland, and not a soul believes it.

7 time Pro-Bowler, 7 times All-Pro, Defensive ROY. Come on! Urlacher would be lucky to have such a long and productive career!

I hate to burst your bubble here but Urlacher has already been to seven Pro Bowls, won a defensive MVP award, rookie defensive player of the year award and he is only 29. You have inadvertently proved my point that Thomas was extremely good but falls short of the high bar set for Hall of Famers. There is a gap between the tuly great players and guys like Thomas.

Re 25:

I understand where you're coming from and I sort of agree with you. But the timing (releasing him a few days later than the others) suggests Parcells may have had a talk with him along the lines of:

"You're cap figure doesn't jive with what we're moving towards. You've had a great career here and I'm letting you know now we'll be releasing you. You may want to choose to retire as a Dolphin before we do that, but it is your choice"

My guess is Thomas mulled it over and decided he still wants to play even if it is for someone else. I say more power to him, unless it is the Patriots.

I think the situation was handled about as well as it could have been.

Re a lot of posts:

I, too, am waiting to hear who trades for Jason Taylor.

Re 32's last sentence:

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

36 The resume you quote for Urlacher was so impressive, that I had to check:

He's really been to 6 probowls, 4 time all-pro, never won a defensive player of the year, only ROY. So as far as accomplishments go, he's still behind Thomas. I mean, forget the probowls, Zach is a 7 time All-pro!

Now that's HOF worthy...

As far play -not honors- I think he's a fringe HOF, but Urlacher was until recently believed to be overrated, so I'm not sure he will be a shoe-in when the time comes, either. Of course, he's only 29, so let's see how his career path continues.

RE: 38

never won a defensive player of the year

Err....so who do you think won Defensive MVP in 2005?

37 ha I figured you'd have something to say about that. I probably should have qualified with "Ginn will probably never live up to his place in the draft", but look at who's left on that team at his position. No more Booker, Chambers, or Welker. With the absence of WR's, and an administration known for maximizing potential, WR for the Dolphins is something to watch. If it's not Ginn, it'll be somebody.
For me, the names Vincent Brisby, Ray Crittenden, and Hason Graham come to mind. Those guys weren't all-world, but exceeded expectations when given opportunities. And I'd put Ginn above them in the potential category.

He's maybe not as great as Urlacher. (He also plays in a smaller media market.) But that doesn't really have anything to do with whether he's a HOFer.
The guy just did his job with excellence; he made tackles, he played awesome pass coverage, he forced turnovers, he played hurt even when the team was in last place. In the late '90s, he sometimes seemed like the quickest guy on the field. He worked his ass off, he didn't do a lot of TV commercials, and he was a model citizen.

Which All Pro team did Thomas make seven times? If someone can provide some proof of that I would be grateful.

I said Urlacher had been to seven Pro Bowls and he has, once as an alternate (in his rookie year). He really should have gone this year, he was an ordinary linebacker for four games or so when his back caused him trouble, but the rest of the season was the best MLB in football and finished with five sacks and five picks. If the Pro Bowl voting had been two weeks later he would have gone this year.

I expect that Dolphins to keep Taylor. He's too good to simply trade away. The only other Dolphin who might be worth keeping is Ronnie Brown.

Expect the Dolphins to try to bring in as many newcomers as possible - i.e., look for them to trade high draft picks for multiple lower picks.

As for the Hall of Fame: that's hard to say. Thomas was never the dominant LB that Lewis, Urlacher or Seau have been. He'll certainly be in the discussion, but I would not think about putting him in while Derrick Thomas is still on the outside looking in (so to speak).

According to Pro-football-reference.com Thomas has made All-Pro 7 times: 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006
Urlacher has made All-Pro 4 times: 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006. It doesn't list numbers of tackles. Most of the HoF Linebackers I checked out had 9+ All-Pro Selections. Notable exceptions: Harry Carson(7) and Willie Lanier(8), Dave Wilcox(8).

there should be a salary cap rule implementation such that veteran players who have played for the same team for an extremely large number of years only count 50% against your cap or something. I'm tired of watching great players get cut by their teams before they really need to retire, and they are faced with a choice between 1-2 more seasons with a random other team, or early retirement.

44:

I think the fact that he is good is exactly why they will trade him, while they still get something for him. Lets be realistic, the Dolphins probably will not be contending for the Division in the near future, Taylor or no Taylor. Whatever contributions he might make are effectively meaningless; going 3-13 isn't much better then 1-15. By the time they are in a position to do so, he will most likely be in serious decline. On the other hand, there are teams out there who are contending now, and could use a player like Taylor. The Dolphins get picks they need, the contender gets a player they need, and Taylor gets a shot at actually winning something. It is a winning situation for everyone.

47:

Veteran players who are willing to play for the league minimum count for around half that against the cap.

I think Thomas will have a hard time getting into the HoF if this is the end. Taylor I think is a lock. Will voters be willing to place two Dolphins into the HoF from a team that never played in a Championship game or Super Bowl? My gut tells me they won't be quick about letting a second player from that defense in.

40, you're right. he did win defensive player of the year in 2005. My bad.

Karl #13, and Gerry #32,

I am here to bring good tidings: Do you know what I was doing when I was 23, two full decades ago? I was in my 18th year of rooting for the Colts--6 years earlier, my senior year in HS, they went winless in a strike season. Let's see, 1986? Major suckage. 1987 and 88, wildcard teams that lucked into having HoFer Eric Dickerson then about 8 more years (including a 1-15 season IIRC) before Marshall Faulk, Jim Harbaugh, and a really stingy D led them to the AFCCG. A second wildcard the next year, then back to back 3-13 seasons. Then in 1999 they became the Colts you know now. Through most of those last two decades, the Dolphins were a good team.

There is hope. There are weeks of just praying you have a 100 yard rusher in the box score because the scoreboard is your enemy. There are years you dance because you have 3 pro bowlers, despite only 7 wins. 1-15 truly sucks. Give Parcells a few years (it's all he's good for, but he is good). A few good drafts, a little luck, Massachusetts ceceding from the Union, and you could be back in the thick of things. Believe me, you sure do appreciate every win and great play once you've crossed the valley of suckitude. Long-time Colt and Pats fans can bear me out on that.

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in football? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in football? No

2. Was he the best player on his team? No. At best he was #2 behind either Marino or Taylor

3. Was he the best player in football at his position? Was he the best player in the conference at his position? Maybe in 1998 or 1999 he was the best MLB. Either him or Ray Lewis?

4. Did he have an impact on a number of playoff races? Yes, key component of the Dolphins' playoff runs between 1998 and 2003.

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? Maybe. He was an all-pro in 2005 and 2006 then injured most of 2007 and then cut. If he never plays again, then it could be said that he never really played past his prime. If he plays in 2008, then we'll see.

6. Is he the very best football player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? No

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? Looks like most players with similar all-pros are in.

8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? Doesn't really apply for non-skill position

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? No

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? Probably not. Seau was better.

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? None, no.

12. How many Pro Bowl-type seasons did he have? How many Pro Bowl games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many Pro Bowl games go into the Hall of Fame? 7 Pro Bowls, 7 All Pros. Yes.

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could make it to the Super Bowl? No

14. What impact did the player have on football history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? No

I am kind of hoping he lands in Indy and not NE. Denver might be a good choice as well. In any case I hope he does get a ring, he deserves it for all the ineptitude he endured in Miami.

I like Thomas, but he's not a HOFer. Chris 'the Hangman' Hanburger has more Pro Bowl(9) and All-Pro(8) selections and isn't in.

Re 54: Thomas doesn't fit in with the Tampa 2, unless he wants to try 3-tech for a year.

47:
Only if the veterans production is lower than average, or significantly off their prime. I think we can all agree no one wants to reduce Peyton Manning, Harrison and Wayne's cap number in order to let Indy keep a bloated salary offense together.

Some large cap numbers deserve to be large.

I don't know if Thomas' stay in Miami really counts as "all the ineptitude".

In his 12 seasons, the Dolphins finished with a winning record 8 times and they were 8-8 once. Their total record was 97-95 in his 12 seasons.

58
I meant the ineptitude on the part of Miami's management especially in the area of player acquisition. The coaching while not stellar was adequate at times hence the record. No way you can say this has been a well run club the last decade + and I bleed teal and orange unfortunately.

Turns out #1 was spot on.

I don't mean to argue for or against his HOF status but to ask, " was he the best player on his team" is an unfair question.

What if a player is the best LG of alltime. He probably won't ever be the best single player on his team, but if he is head and shoulders above all other left guards, doesn't he deserve to be recognized? The fact that he was never better than QB #13 or Jason Taylor a DE/OLB hybrid doesn't mean it should be held against him.

60:

I can't say that it really surprises me. But really, is another old, well-past-his-prime LB really what NE needs?