Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

printable version

Extra Points

Articles from around the Web



10 Dec 2008

EPC: The Packers' Poorly-Coached Defense

MDS breaks down the Packers' defense and their failure to do, well, much of anything against Houston on Sunday.

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 10 Dec 2008

15 comments, Last at 11 Dec 2008, 12:17pm by S

Comments

1
by LukeM :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:15am

If they're so poorly coached, how were they able to dominate the Colts? Was it windy? Are the Colts too one-dimensional?

2
by DaveInTucson :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 11:55am

Up through week 11, the Packers' defense was pretty good, at least against the pass (their losses up through then can be blamed to a large degree on an inability to stop the run).

Since the Monday night game at New Orleans, the defense has just fallen off a cliff.

In their first 10 games, Packers' opponents averaged 20.9 points per game. In their last 3 games, they have averaged 36.7.

I have a blog where I post objective, predicive power rankings of NFL teams.

3
by DaveInTucson :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:01pm

Yes, it was windy that day. And Joseph Addai was out (hamstring, if I remember right).

I have a blog where I post objective, predicive power rankings of NFL teams.

4
by S :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:32pm

Well, for one thing, Woodson wasn't playing safety in that game. A big reason the Packers played so well on defense in that game was because they basically had Woodson following Reggie Wayne whereever he lined up. The Colts couldn't hide Wayne in the slot because Woodson would be there on him. Hence, the Colts had to use other receivers and neither Harrison (this was during the portion of the season when everyone was commenting that he was washed up) or Anthony Gonzalezs had a good game. Add in the fact that saturday was out and Manning was still recovering from injury (and the Packers had a healthy Nick Barnett), and the situation changes. If the Colts and Packers were to play tomorrow, it would likely be a different game.

5
by S :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:43pm

So where would the Packers go from here to improve? They'll be missing Nick Barnett and Cullen Jenkins for the rest of this season, but they'll be back next year. The strange Cahrles Woodson as safety experiment will end (possibly as soon as next week). The Packers biggest problem on D this year seems to be that they didn't have the depth to account for these injuries, but is that the fault of Bob Sanders for not coaching up the second string? Is that reason enough for the Packers to consider changing DC, or would they be better off looking to get a pass rusher in the draft and get younger at corner?

6
by S :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 12:43pm

So where would the Packers go from here to improve? They'll be missing Nick Barnett and Cullen Jenkins for the rest of this season, but they'll be back next year. The strange Cahrles Woodson as safety experiment will end (possibly as soon as next week). The Packers biggest problem on D this year seems to be that they didn't have the depth to account for these injuries, but is that the fault of Bob Sanders for not coaching up the second string? Is that reason enough for the Packers to consider changing DC, or would they be better off looking to get a pass rusher in the draft and get younger at corner?

7
by MCS :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 1:05pm

Unfortunately, McCarthy is saying that he supports Sanders.

"Well, I work with Bob everyday. From a personal side of it he's a tremendous human being, it's very important to him. And professionally, he has a system, a scheme and he's doing the best job he can to put players in a position to be successful. I hate to be redundant here. It all fits together. I have confidence in Bob and we'll continue as we move forward."

McCarthy seems to think it's execution.

8
by ammek :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 1:42pm

I think MDS's article, which is an excellent summary of the debacle, puts the lie to that. Sure, you can blame Tramon Williams for getting burned ... but when you've got a (likely) ProBowl corner playing run defense on the same play, you might ask yourself whether you -- the coach -- could have done anything to prevent it.

The slow starts on both sides of the ball, the big gains yielded, the hesitation in reading very vanilla plays, and the ineffective blitzing: these all suggest that the Packers' problems begin on the sideline. Talent-wise, this isn't the Chiefs. It was a top-six defense two years ago, with essentially the same personnel (minus a little experience). There could be as many as four ProBowlers this season - Woodson, Collins, Harris and Kampman. Yet they gave up 549 yards to Houston.

Mike McCarthy's reputation as a genius is also under review. The Packer offense has produced just two first-quarter first downs in the last six games: and one of those, versus Houston, was a five-yard holding penalty. I'm thinking the pre-game preparation could be a little more effective, on both sides of the ball.

9
by MCS :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 1:55pm

I think we can all agree that McCarthy is reading the situation wrong. Or at least telling us that (the dreaded "vote of confidence").

My point is that if McCarthy is being forthright with the media, then Packers fans get to look forward to another season of Bob Sanders' ineffective game-plans and lack of adjustment.

12
by ammek :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 5:44pm

Suddenly, I am surrounded by darkness.

11
by S :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 2:46pm

It's more than a little experience that this group is missing. KGB was fairly effective as a third down rush specialist last season. His rapid decline and subsequent release (coupled with the loss of Cullen Jenkins) left the Packers without any real pass rush threat besides Kampman. Other teams have been focussing on Kampman, and the players the Packers have inserted haven't been able to take advantage. Plus, the Packers never added another DT to the roster to replace Corey Williams, so that's one less player for the rotatation. The Packers are leaning on replacement level guys like Collin Cole and Mike Montgomery more this year and those players aren't picking up the slack. This doesn't absolve Sanders by any means, but the Packers are missing some personel who had a greater role in their '07 success than the team initially realized.

10
by Mike W :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 2:07pm

Guys, the only thing McCarthy can say right now is what he said. Therefore, the statement has zero informational content, and gives no indication whether Sanders will be back next year or not.

13
by Noah of Arkadia :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 6:28pm

Agreed. It would suck horribly if he said something like, "Yeah, that Bob Sanders. He stinks, man."

14
by chubbypuppy (not verified) :: Wed, 12/10/2008 - 10:54pm

Lot of posters here with incomplete information.

First, Corey Williams with the expectation that number one draft pick Justin Harrell would NOT be a worthless tub of goo.

That didn't work out as planned as Harrell has been useless this season.

Second, the Packers were LUCKY that Johnny Jolly and Ryan Pickett have been healthy all season. That being stated playing so many snaps has caused Pickett's effectiveness to go down quickly as the season/game progresses as he is a big guy.

Third, the notion that Nick Barnett would be making a difference is laughable. Barnett was having a TERRIBLE sesason before the injury as he seemed to completely lose the ability to fight through blocks and/or work through traffic. He was being ridden out of plays regularly.

Hawk came into the season hurt and while he's not complaining he cannot be healthy as his season has been average to bad.

I despise Brady Poppinga as he is a guy who will blow up one offensive play and then disappear for 10 but everyone sees the one and thinks he's great. The guy is a joke in coverage and also can be stoned by competent tight ends/linemen.

Tramon Williams has the athleticism and had has moments of competence. And if you are the Packers do you want a completely clueless Atari Bigby in the lineup or a young guy who at least has a CHANCE of making a play. Bigby is beyond a piece of deadweight and only the rest of the defense's work last year hid his ineptitude.

The defense did well last year because of the D-line and the corners getting away with bloody murder. The defensive line was down several guys before the season even began and is now running on fumes. Leaving Charles Woodson on an island. Nick Collins HAS had flashes of brilliance but trying to clean up everyone else's mistakes has taken its toll.

If Green Bay focuses anywhere else but the defensive and offensive lines in the draft then Ted Thompson should be horsewhipped. THe core issues with the team couldn't be more obvious.

15
by S :: Thu, 12/11/2008 - 12:17pm

Barnett has lost a step, granted, but his role as defensive "quarterback" (receiving play calls, making adjustments, etc.) should not be minimized. Its no coincidence that the New Orleans debacle happened after his first game out. I'm not claiming to be an expert in the intricacies of defensive play calling, but the defense has looked incredibly disorganized since he's been out. For whatever reason A.J. Hawk just hasn't filled that role well.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

CAPTCHA
To skip this, please log in.