So, evidently

Joey Harrington > Byron Leftwich

How many of these guys can still play?

Coleman and Crumpler are the big names, but are they just names at this point, or do they still have value?

I'm surprised Dunn escaped the ax (so far). It looks like they're going younger, so I can't imagine what they've got planned for him.

NFC South fans: so is Rod Coleman really "the most explosive DT in the league" or did he just have one or two huge games on national TV?

crumpler's level of play has been down a bit (tho he's still quite good) the past two seasons, plus he was hurt last year. i'm sad to see him go anyway.

coleman still looks good whenever he plays, it's just that he's always hurt.

gandy is horrible on a hole-in-the-zone kind of level tho.

Re 6: If you should ever insult Hole-In-Zone again, there will be consequences.

These links about cuts are loaded with former big name guys, a few of them must have something left in the tank.
If you know you're not going to make super money for the city you live in, where do you end up?
We should be developing a hypothesis that in the cap era, it's EASIER for a team to maintain a dynasty. This would fly in the face of the conventional wisdom that it is more difficult. What we learn is that it is difficult to have a dynasty with the same players, year in, year out. A successful franchise might lose their internally developed players looking to cash in, but they benefit from "success discounts" with free agents migrating to winning pastures.

RE#8

Interesting. Now, what are some metrics that we can use to quantify/test this hypothesis?

Oh sweet Jeebus, thinks are looking a little sweeter for Seattle. Say what you want about Crumpler and where he is in his career, but atleast we can get him a year or two out of his prime, instead of 8 years out like Mr. Pollard.

Joey Harrington > Byron Leftwich

We need some cap room for Chris Redman.

Leftwich signed a two-year deal, so the Falcons had to cut him if they didn't want him around. Harrington's deal was for two years as well, so I suspect he's coming back. Not sure about Redman...

Whoever signs Crumpler will love his drops in the end zone and on 3rd down.

Please, please tell me they'll cut or trade John Abraham too. Please, please tell me that if it's a trade, it's to the Patriots.

Having taken a quick look at the Falcons roster, they have two free agents and a low-round waiver-wire pickup to replace Crumpler at tight end. I have to say that this move confuses me: was it about salary vs. production? Ya can't exactly say that the Falcons have obviously promising youngsters waiting in the wings as replacments/cannon-fodder.

this is all about cap room as the falcons had one of the lowest numbers for cap room available going into '08.

@#4
i am also shocked Dunn is still there. his cap charge is pretty high and they would save considerable money to their cap by cutting him and just finding a complementary back for Norwood.

Other than from a fiscal perspective, does the Crumpler cut make much sense? I would think that if you are trying to rebuild a team from the ground up, and potentially with a new QB, it would be good to have an above average receiving tight end.

Regarding Dunn, I think they are hoping he decides to retire before they cut him, even if his retirement is "Seau-esque."

I think the metrics for that type of study would come in 2 forms:
If limiting to the "overpaid verteran population" pool:

1st you have determine the body of successful teams using team won-lost records, playoff appearances, and SB appearances (because let's be honest, free agents aren't using DVOA and pythagorean wins to determine their destination)
The 2nd form would have to be "squishy" - newspaper interviews and quotes (assuming you can't get direct interviews with these players as a nonmedia member) and determine why these players chose their destination.

The variables that might cloud that type of study are:
different salary cap situations for every team: not everyone has the cap room to sign a Crumpler, even at minimum salary
Different personnel targeting by different teams: not everyone needs a TE

The thought is mostly based on a Seau coming out of retirement to play for NE at a low salary, and a Moss going to NE (although it was a trade) and accepting a major salary reduction;
all in the name of success.
But feel free to rip it apart, because the more I think of it, I can't find more teams that have reaped the same benefits. There are probably more examples for other teams, but my brain is starting to hurt now that it's 4PM on Friday. (And because it's causing me so much trouble right now, I'm going to punish it cell by cell. Happy Friday everyone!)

Even if he's declined somewhat, I can't believe that Crumpler is worth less money than Visanthe Shiancoe.

Crumpler does well in dpar and Dvoa in 2004-2006. His catch rate actually increased this season even as his numbers dropped. I imagine he will find several teams interested in him.

As for Leftwich may be he should do something radical and go to a good team. The Pats, Chargers and Colts all have shaky back ups atm. Sure he would probably have to take low ball back up money and may not see the field the next season or two. But his body wouldn't take the pounding and he might be able to reinvent himself in a few years when he'll only be 30 in sort of a Trent Green, Steve Young fashion.

There are a few other individual examples of players accepting less than their market value to play on a winning team. Keith Jackson and Eugene Robinson both accepted odd-shaped deals to play for the Packers in the mid-1990s. IIRC, Charles Haley went to Dallas even though they didn't offer as much money as other courters, and the same Cowboys team managed to pick up Deion Sanders somehow.

#21
I think the Jags need a back-up QB.

Is Byron Leftwich suddenly that bad? I mean a year ago I wanted him in Chicago, and would have dangled actual players for him, no suddenly he's cholera.

I mean he was pretty good for a few years in Jacksonville right? And he's not old. I know his release is slow, but why wouldn't a lot of teams take a chance on him. It's not like he could have done much in Atlanta.

How bad is Leftwich at play-action? Isn't Leftwich > Tarvaris Jackson?

Isn't Leftwich > Chicago Quarterback?

Isn't Leftwich > NY Jets Quarterback?

With all the QB issues last season, it seems really surprising to me the Falcons couldn't trade him somewhere...

24&25 - and they chose to keep Joey.

they chose to keep Joey
Harrington just wins. Seriously, though, JH seems like at least a decent QB who has had the disadvantage of playing for 3 bad teams.

If nothing else, you could certainly make the case that Harrington seems less prone to injury than Leftwich...

trading these guys means retaining more cap hit, and the object here is to free up cap space.

crumpler definately isn't the first guy i'd have picked to see go - dunn and keith brooking have higher cap hits in 08 and they are also demonstrably worse players at this point in their careers. but i can understand the move.

also; calling JH 'decent' is pretty charitable. one of the more impressive things petrino achieved this year was getting joey to play with more poise, but he's still not much more than a career backup at this point.

In another thread someone said that Zach Thomas would go to NE. If the Falsons release Brooking, HE will go to NE.

e: 30

"I don’t really see how anyone could dispute that Harrington is better than Leftwich. It’s not like we’re talking about a slight difference in performance last year, Harrington was basically an average quarterback, Leftwich in the same offense was absolutely horrible."

It's not that I disagree re: Harrington being better than Leftwich (or more accurately, Harrington isn't worse than him), but I'm curious how you can be so absolute about it based only on 07 performance! Leftwich was picked up in the middle of the season and started a handful of games; Harringon took every snap of training camp as the team's starter and started significantly more games (sup bigger sample size). They're different players with different skillsets, and Leftwich's was hugely inappropriate for Atlanta's system and personnel (which is why it was such a ridiculous signing in the first place).

I only read the first couple of comments, but Crumpler would sure look good in Orange and Black stripes. (Hey, we already have Kelly)

#21: Crumpler's catch rate went up for the same reason his overall production went down: Vick was a very inaccurate QB, but he looked for Crumpler constantly, frequently forcing the ball to him.

I don't think the Falcons see either Harrington or Leftwich as the long-term solution at QB, but apparently they think Harrington is better suited (mentally) to the backup role.

I would be shocked if either Dunn or Brooking starts next year in an Atlanta uniform, unless they're willing to take HUGE reductions in both salary and playing time.

Byron Leftwhich was horrible last year. He is a big, fat, lazy player with a slow release and a bad attitude that rightfully got cut from Jacksonville.

I was glad to see "camp leftwhich" eat their words from Garrard this year.

Leftwhich is NOT a very good quarterback at all, and is the opposite of a leader ( which is why he wasn't kept to be a backup). He didn't even talk to his coach and nobody wanted to leave a bad seed around when he wasn't designed to play anyway.

He has the worst throwing motion I have ever seen in the NFL by a landslide. Instead of trying to fix it, his rhetoric was always " Let Byron Leftwhich be Byron Leftwhich". I made it this far with my ( poor mechanics), so they must be good enough.

His inability to lead people or improve his mistakes are as great a weakness as any. I wouldn't want that bad seed in my camp even as my scout team quarterback.

Atlanta needs to rid the team of the trash and expel Deangelo Hall and Demmorio Williams as well.

Blow it up and start over, at least you can blame Vick and Petrino for a couple of seasons.

Isn't Brooking moving to SLB next season? He does seem to be out of place at MLB...

Memo to Alge Crumpler: sure there's a lot of rain right now in Seattle, but it's a gentle rain. And springtime in the Pacific NW is beautiful. And the summers here are not too humid, and they're not too hot--I'd say they're just right. And you'll have a QB who throws a catchable ball with much more frequency . . .

I think Leftwich can still play a little. I know he was beyond awful this year but I think it was for the same reason Kerry Collins was beyond awful in Tennessee last year. They were signed too late and had no time to learn the offense, practice etc.

Comment #34 has it correct.
Farther, Crumpler missed all of training camp, some games and he missed parts of other games because of the poor condition of his knees.
In short, he is no longer physically capable of handling the rigors camp through a 16 game schedule without breaking down, IMHO
That is not the case with Brooking and Dunn even tough they are long in the tooth and might also get the ax?

herm?-
i like your theory! it might also be visible in the ultra-cap-friendly contract reworkings that superstar QBs like manning and brady are willing and able to do.

Wasn't there an issue of Crumpler not being a team player and getting into it with the coaches or management? Mike Smith didn't have much use for egos in jacksonville and maybe he didn't feel Crumpler would be on the same page.

Leftwich is a fine QB for the '80s 'Skins or '90s Cowboys. Slow with an even slower release. Joey Harrington was a one time great talent. The talent has never been in place around him for him to leave up to it.

MDS: Agree on the difference in performance between Leftwich and Harrington, but one thing we did learn from the rat's departure was that he was actually calling plays that Leftwich hadn't even run in practice. How's that for incompetence? Still, if i were to cut one of them it would be Byron.

Hopefully Redman can be re-signed as his performsnce s in thst very same offense were far superior to both.

Chris: Not sure how DeMo is 'trash' but he is a FA and pretty much gone.

The sad thing is here is that Brooking and Dunn are still on the roster. If Brooking is cut he wont be a Patriot, he simply wont get picked up.

Truman, I suspect Smitty will keep Brooking around for one more year with a restructred contract and start him at MLB, while drafting a MLB to be groomed as his replacement.
They can`t move him to WIL (his natural position) because it would be a crime to not start Nicholas there.
De Mo is not likley to be re-signed.

To: TOS,
Yeah, Crumpler had let his mouth expose himself to be somewhat of a malcontent However, the real issue is, his knees are totally shot.

All true about Leftwich being slow with a slow release and even worse, he can`t stay healthy for 2 games.

To Chris, as to the idea of getting rid of DeAngelo Hall?
IMO, that`s a bad idea.
He is one of the 3 the best talents on the team (along with Boley and Abraham)plus with Emmitt Thomas as the new Assistant HC he is likely to stay and be happy.

So will J. Lorenzen will be referred as a QB QB QB QB now?

Rumor has it that at least one factor behind the cuts was that the cut players were unwilling to restructure their deals. Meanwhile, Dunn and Brooking (the most obvious players who should have been cut) are apparently working on restructuring.

If Brooking moves, it would be to WLB, as SLB belongs to Michael Boley for the next 8-10 years. Nichols may get a good look at MLB, or it will be a high priority in the draft.

Supposedly, Mike Mularkey doesn't use a TE much in the pass offense, and Crumpler's knees are shot.

Again, supposedly more releases are coming. I'm not sure that any of the releases are designated as June 1 cuts for cap purposes; it's possible they're saving those for Dunn and Brooking if renegotiation doesn't work out.

Carolina has also been mentioned as a likely destination for Crumpler.

Leftwich fired by Del Rio
+
Smith on the same page than Del Rio
=
Smith fires Leftwich.

Smith was the DC in Jax when Leftwich was their starter. He knows him and he wants a reliable (I mean a guy who isn't injured) starter while his franchise QB grows up.

Why would D.Hall be any happier under E. Thomas ? I am not saying he won't be, I just want to know the logic as to why? My hypothesis would be that the more the falcons lose, the more Hall will be pissed off regardless of who tells him what to do.

I don't dispute that Hall isn't a bad player. He is an above average corner, but whenever there is a falcons game is play and accomplishments are vastly overstated ( hence overrated).

Look at the Giants game this year. He was talking about how the Giants "ain't a thang" and how he was going to score 2TDs on them. In fact, Plax the Giants worked him.

I just see him more as the cornerback version of Terrel Owens. Don't cut him, because some team is dumb enough to trade for him as every team needs more a little CB help.

Oh, and just beause he is one of the most talented players on his team, doesn't mean you should keep him for that reason.

The Colts let Edge walk away and they won the SB. Ditto with the Giants and Tiki.

Buffalo let London Fletcher and Nate Clements walk away and they finished about the same as they did the previous year minus two of their best defenders.

Hall isn't worth the trouble.

Any thought about whether Coleman might look okay in Denver? I know he's a huge injury risk... I haven't seen coleman play in years, but I know DEN can use all the DL help they can get, particularly in the middle (some promising youngsters available on the edges).

Coleman's not the force he was a few years ago, but (when healthy) he's still capable of being an impact player. If you can get him for the right price, he's probably worth a roll of the dice.

Chris - Edge and Tiki were a lot older and played a position where production is more easily replaced! D-Hall's only, what, 24? Also, the Falcons aren't a team like Indy that's so loaded with talent that they can afford to let young talent walk.

Edge and Tiki were supposed to be 1800 yards that just dissapeared from their offenses. (Some) people argued that Edge was made that offense in Indy run ( and that manning was opportunist of his cast) and that Tiki ran the Giants offense.

I get your point. A CB is worth more than a RB, but those were two of the highest quality backs, and most people would agree that Hall is NOT shut down and is generally overrated.

Jimmy Williams is another highly touted prospect and the Falcons are more than 1 CB away from winning. I say trade him while he still has value ( 24 yr old cb) and you only need 1 buyer. Maybe the Redskins would dish out a pick for the former hokie since s. springs isn't geting any younger.

Yeah, but don't forget that they converted J Williams to free safety last year. I don't know what the current regime's plans are for the position, if they're holding onto Crocker or starting JW or what, but it doesn't seem fair to convert him back to corner in his third year. I dunno.

I don't know if D-Hall is really overrated at this point - he was just flavor of the month for a while in 06, but you heard a lot less about him in 07. He also has just one year left on his contract (and is saying he won't play in 08 unless he gets an extension), so who knows what kind of value you'll really get for him. I mean, personally I don't like the guy but I think his presence makes rebuilding a lot easier.