Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

printable version

Extra Points

Articles from around the Web



22 Dec 2008

MMQB: Revenge, Thy Name is Pennington

This week, PK sets the scene for the Fins-Jets matchup, marvels at the Titans' defensive depth, and details why Cleveland will evidently be getting a lump of coal from Braylon Edwards.

Posted by: Doug Farrar on 22 Dec 2008

40 comments, Last at 28 Dec 2008, 12:20pm by mattymatty

Comments

1
by MJK :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:09pm

I am very very conflicted about the MIA-NYJ game. Most folks here know that I'm a Patriots fan, so obviously I will be rooting for the Jets. But...

* I have always liked and respected Pennington.
* I love rooting for the "underdog", and love great turnaround stories.
* The excessive Favre love and worship has turned my feeling for him from "meh, decent but overhyped QB, I would have stuck with Pennington" at the start of the season to "Brett Favre must die. Repeatedly".
* As a long time (but now displaced) Bostonian, I am hardwired to hate any team from New York City (or the New Jersey approximation thereof).

I will root for the Jets, but feel dirty. It's worse than when I was rooting for the Cowboys on Saturday. I really, really wish KC or SF had pulled it out against Miami, because then I could root for Pennington in good conscience.

Any other NE fans feel similarly? Or other fans in general due to playoff implications?

3
by Joe T. (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:21pm

As a Skins fan, I was pulling for the Eagles to win yesterday to keep the Cowboys out of the playoffs. I can certainly sympathize with your dilemma.

10
by Travis :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:07pm

I felt the exact same way about rooting for the Patriots in 2002. (And I imagine Patriots fans felt similar about rooting for the Jets in 2001, when the Jets beat Oakland in Week 17 to give the Patriots a first-round bye.)

12
by Kulko :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:17pm

Well I feel the same.

Dolphins vs Jets is always a no-brainer for me, and Chad vs Brett is even easier, but next sunday the playoff hopes take precedence.

And all said, I will be happy enough if they just play it fair instead of giving in to their inner Magnini and forfeiting the game.

I still believe our best chance lies in a Baltimore fumble, as unlikely as that is.

13
by Dennis :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:19pm

As a Jets fan, if NE wins, I'll be half-rooting for the Jets to lose so NE won't win the division. And if Baltimore is winning, I'll be fully rooting for the Fins.

22
by Wanker79 :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 4:08pm

As an Eagles fan, I wrestled with my decision on who I was going to root for in last year's Super Bowl for every second of the lead up to the game. And couldn't actually make the decision until kickoff. I've never been happier after a Giants' win, and to this day I haven't forgiven myself.

36
by livingonapear :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 9:33am

My intense dislike for the Giants superseded any and all negative feelings for the Pats. I'm not as harsh on Eli Manning this season because he has improved greatly (even if his stats have slipped quite a bit) but last year I wanted him to fall flat. Imagine my dismay. Imagine my dismay.

I did almost vote for him for the Pro Bowl, so that certainly felt dirty enough.

2
by Rich Conley (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:19pm

"Remember at the time how the Jets got bashed for not getting enough for Edwards?"

I remember you doing it Peter, but not most football fans. I remember a lot of "why the hell would you give up draft picks for Herm?"

4
by Temo :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:22pm

Cowboys fan, but with a preference for the Jets as well (living in Jersey, my friend's dad would take us to Jets games when we were little).

At the same time, Chad Pennington has been my favorite NFL player ever since he first took over as starting QB. And I don't especially like Brett Favre or Eric Mangini at the moment, so I'm most probably going to be rooting for the Phins, despite hating the Marino teams growing up.

5
by Wanker79 :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:24pm

"I'm sure Tony Dungy looks forward to another weekend in San Diego the way he looks forward to a really deep cavity being filled."

o_O

21
by Goober King :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 3:20pm

Rick Reilly, is that you?

6
by chubbypuppy (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:27pm

Peter King should MEET Joe Paterno before making that statement. Joe Paterno is plutonium in human form. The guy radiates energy.

I mean there are foolish remarks and then there is abject stupidity...........

20
by Joe :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 3:06pm

This is an especially stupid remark for King because he's suggesting Paterno's age would hurt his ability to recruit, except that Penn State is currently enjoying an 11-1 Rose Bowl season. Meanwhile, the star player on the current team, Derrick Williams, was the #1 recruit in the country 4 years ago.

At least when Bob Ryan had his "bash Penn State for extending Paterno" moment on the sports reporters a few years ago, the PSU football program was going through an extended period of losing seasons. But considering the recent success of the program I just don't get it - the team is winning, the stadium is one of the largest in the country, the players are graduating, and Paterno is a finalist for coach of the year! How do you NOT re-up Paterno?

7
by David Frizzell (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:39pm

What is the point of "Are you kidding me, Miles Austin?"

17
by MCS :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:43pm

What is the point of any of it?

8
by Temo :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:51pm

And no it's time to pick apart his article:

"Dallas: Winner of the Good Fortune of 2008 Award."

Yes, Dallas has been SO fortunate this season. How is making the playoffs at 10-6 qualify for good fortune? Shouldn't this be shared between the Chargers and Broncos?

Are you kidding me, Miles Austin?

Huh?

Sixty-five years ago, in 1943, on a Redskins team with shrunken 28-man rosters because of the great war

Doesn't this invalidate his argument for "best season ever, no argument" if he was playing against far less competition due to the war?

40
by mattymatty :: Sun, 12/28/2008 - 12:20pm

The Great War is what people called World War One before there was a World War Two. Unsurprisingly, King is confusing his world wars.

9
by David Frizzell (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 1:58pm

The only thing I can think of with Austin is he fumbled a KR, and Romo overthrew him deep for what likely would have been 6. I just don't get it.

11
by johonny (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:15pm

If Mangini wasn't possibly playing for his job Id claim the Jets will throw the game just to spite the Pats. Oddly for all the Miami winning in NY in the cold. They in general don't play in NY in the winter. Having last done so in 1999.

14
by Carlos (not verified) (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:26pm

That Matt Vasgersian quote could be quote of the month... or season.

I heard him do a redskins game this year... either Rams or Lions. He was terrific -- far and away the best I've heard in years. I posted this somewhere else after that game, but he consistently identified key personnel changes on both sides presnap. Just terrific.

15
by Lance :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:33pm

Re this: "I watched NFL Network's postgame show Saturday night hoping to hear about the Ravens' win. No wonder so much of America hates the Cowboys and hates the TV networks for worshiping at the altar of the Cowboys."

But when networks worship at the altar of the Patriots, Red Sox, or Yankees, it's 100% cool.

16
by 2mathias (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:33pm

Very long-time Jets fan here. Pennington might be my favorite player and I really haven't latched on to Favre. If Baltimore and New England have won, I am pretty sure I will find myself pulling for the 'Phins.

18
by Carlos (not verified) (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 2:44pm

he texted e to say, it was "like watching Al Cowboy-zeera.''

I know there's lots of cost-cutting going on over there, but doesn't an editor read this stuff?

19
by Biebs (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 3:01pm

I thought the Jets made the right move in preseason. The Jets, with Pennington were not going to the SB. The Dolphins, with Pennington, are not going to the SB.

The Jets with Favre, are almost certainly not going to the SB, but considering how he played last season (or at least seemed to) he was certainly better than Chad had been in any season since 2002.

I say go for it and roll the dice, if the Jets lose it costed them a 3rd round pick. Say, best case scenerio, the Jets win the division and go 11-5 with Pennington, who still cannot defeat top defenses and will probably not generate more than 10 points of offense against the Titans, Ravens, or Steelers. Would that leave the Jets in a significantly better position that they are in anyway? No.

The moved backfired and Favre's arm looks to be more dead than Pennington's and the Jets receivers seem to have no ability to create separation. Of all the things the Jets did this season to anger me, this is not a decision bothers me.

23
by Dennis :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 4:31pm

I know I was probably the only one thinking this before the season, but I wanted them to start Clemens. This team wasn't going to the super bowl regardless of the qb, so the should've let Clemens play and see what he could do. Pennington doesn't have too many years left, and Favre sure as hell doesn't (hopefully none). Now another year has gone by and we still don't know if Clemens can play or if they need to find a new qb.

25
by MJK :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 5:23pm

Agree with this logic, but I think that's the reason why switching from Pennington to Favre was a bad idea (and a good idea for the 'Phins). Favre gives you 1 year, realistically. And he's going to demand to be the starter. Anyone who thought he'd give you more was deluding themselves. Pennington probably gives you about 3, and while he'd like to start, you can switch him for a rookie if the season goes south. Pennington is a far better QB to have while you take a year or two to develop your young guy, and to hold the fort down in case your young guy doesn't work out and you have to draft a new one.

Favre, not so much. Favre would have been a good pick for a team that had all the other pieces in place but was just lacking a QB, to make a 1-year run at at SB. There were 3 such teams at the start of the season, and Green Bay wasn't giving Favre to two of them (Minny and Chicago). I think TB would have worked, too, but they liked Garcia.

In any case, Miami now has a QB to give them winning records for a couple of years while they groom Henne (who, by all accounts, is pretty raw). Once Henne gets good enough to take the starting job away from Pennington, then they're golden. If he never does, they've bought themselves a few years of decent QB play while the draft a new young guy.

29
by Biebs (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 5:55pm

The problem was that Clemens was Matt Leinart-like in the preseason. He looked terrible in practice and in the 1st preseason game. From what I had read the Jets really wanted Clemens to win the job, but by the end of the preseason he had looked worse than the #3 QB Brett Ratliff.
I think part of the reason they got Favre was just how bad Clemens was.

30
by are-tee :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 6:35pm

Clemens threw a total of 38 passes all pre-season. As I remember, in that first game he had a lot of passes dropped by receivers.

Ratliff (who impressed me) was basically playing against third-stringers.

37
by Dennis :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 10:19am

I don't put a whole lot of stock in the preseason, and once they made the trade, Fravre was the starter so it was all moot. Clemens was never going to see any action this year unless Favre got hurt or in a blowout. I can't see Favre coming back next year (I sure don't want him back), so what do they do for a qb? Do you go after an experienced guy, give the job to Clemens, and/or draft someone and maybe get lucky with a Ryan or Flacco who can start right away?

The Jets are moving in the right direction - the O-line is much improved and their running the ball well. Washington is as good a playmaker as there is, if they'd give him the ball more than 3 times a game. They have some good young defensing players - Harris, Revis, etc. - they can build around, although the D pretty much collapsed the last month. It would be nice to have a long-term QB plan in place, and they have nothing. Another year has gone by and we still have no idea if Clemens can play.

24
by Armchair qB (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 4:50pm

Interesting point about Kellen Clemens... as a fins fan I feel the same concern with Chad Henne.

The prospect of meaningful December football for the first time in years, has seduced the fins into a playoff run with Pennington, when starting the strong armed and promising Chad Henne might have been the better move.

In reality the schedule has flattered us, and we are not a 10-5 team. Now we too don't know what we have in Henne, and next year is a real concern.

As with Clemens, so with Henne - meanwhile Ryan and Flacco are making hay...

26
by Anonymouse (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 5:30pm

I don't think this is a fair argument. Firstly, I am a wholehearted believer in the concept of a "winning culture" and "knowing how to win." While Henne may not be learning this skill, at least the rest of the team benefits from meaningful football games and possibly a playoff appearance.

Furthermore, you could play Henne all year and still not really know "what you have." As demonstrated this year by Cassel, Rodgers, and namely Orton, young QBs do seem to still improve while riding the pine. Really, I think this may be the better way to run your franchise -- I'd rather lose a year with my QB having sat for a year or two (or three) and thus feeling more confident that this is a true indicator of his skill (and potential), as opposed to losing a year with a true rookie while not being certain if he may improve dramatically with a couple of years of experience.

27
by Goran (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 5:43pm

I've been saying all year long that the Jets went with an inferior quarterback this year. If Peter King has also figured it out, it means it's now obvious.

Pennington's probably the most underrated player in the league. After a sensational 2002 when he became a starter, he didn't really pan out and became a superstar, so I figure that's why he fell of the radar in recent years. He's not perfect, and the arm strength is really becoming a bigger problem every year since the shoulder injury in 2004, but look at how the Jets performed with him and without him since 2002, and it's all too obvious.

All the Favre Favre Favre (to quote TMQ) talk, and how the Jets are now contenders, has been absolutely laughable. This was the 2008, not the 1998 season. How many great games has Favre had this year? At New England; any more?

28
by Jackie Treehorn Presents (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 5:45pm

Since 2001, the only season the Patriots haven't made the playoffs is 2002. In that season, the Pats won their final game vs Miami to go 9-7. They then had to wait on the outcome of the NYJ-GB game to determine whether or not they'd win the division and make the playoffs. In that game, Pennington and the Jets beat the bag out of Favre and GB, which prevented the Patriots from making the playoffs.

This year, if the Patriots beat Buffalo (and assuming Baltimore takes care of business), they will once again have to wait on the outcome of a Pennington-Favre game. And if Pennington beats Favre, the Pats will be knocked out of the playoffs, again.

What are the odds?

31
by Goran (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 10:05pm

Actually, if I recall correctly, those final games in 2002 were played simultaneously, and the Jets actually had to wait to see the outcome, because the Pats-Dolphins game went into OT, and a Dolphins would've eliminated the Jets.

But still a good point.

33
by Jackie Treehorn Presents (not verified) :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 12:10am

I remember agonizing during the 4pm Jets game, wondering if the Pats' win was good enough to make the playoffs.

Here are the game books for each game. Notice the start time in the top right of each.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/18340/NE_Gamebook.pdf
http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/18346/NYJ_Gamebook.pdf

38
by dryheat (not verified) :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 11:58am

No, the Jets was late. There was a bit of overlap, which you're probably remembering. Late in the first quarter the stadium erupted with cheers when the NE/MIA final was posted. Then the ass-whuppin' was on.

Odd that in 2002, all three teams finished tied as well. Whither poor Buffalo.

39
by Goran (not verified) :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 2:59pm

That's probably it. I really barely remember the Patriots game, except a few excerpts. But I remember the Jets' thrashing of the Packers quite well. It was in the days of dial-up for me, so I didn't bother wasting time getting online and checking the Patriots score, and I was quite nervous until the Jets won, and I could check the scores. It was a great time to follow the Jets, especially after a 1-4 start.

32
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Mon, 12/22/2008 - 10:28pm

The common wisdom was that the Jets got Favre because, Pennington's arm strength was poor despite him being the NFL career completion % leader.

This year Favre has his lowest yards per completion and highest completion % ever.

i'm not sure whether this is an anomoly, but i'd be interested to hear what the Jets staff has to say

34
by Solomon (not verified) :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 12:37am

A few random thoughts:

1. This was a dreadful column by King. Normally, I do not read MMQB, but I did today for some reason. King is well connected in the NFL and has some occasional scoops, but his writing leaves a lot to be desired. Fewer lines about Starbucks, movies, and his baseball opinions would be nice as well.
2. That said, it was worth reading MMQB for the Vasgersian quote alone. He talked about "polishing a turd" when referring to broadcasting Rams games. I know many people think such things, but he came out and said it. Hilarious. FOX should consider moving Vasgersian up in the pecking order (let him do better games), and not just b/c of the turd quote.
3. I flipped to Packer-Bears tonight for a couple minutes. Orton completed a pass to Hester (I think) w/ about 1 minute left in the 1st half. Then a false start occured and a 10-second runoff. The official then stopped the game to review the Hester catch (the call was reversed). I know the rules allow this, but this stinks. The game has moved forward, a penalty occured, and we go back to the previous play? Yes, I know the false start is not technically a play, but I found this incredibly annoying. Sometimes I miss the "old days" when we did not review all these borderline calls.
4. I have not really followed the TO/Witten/Ed Werder soap opera (and do not really care), so I do not know who is telling the truth (not that I would know anyway). TO is a little wacky, but I would not assume Werder is right, either. He reported that the Colts pumped in artificial crowd noise during their home Monday night victory over the Steelers in 2005. The NFL later ruled that the accusations had no merit.
5. This rarely happens, but I would like to see the Colts make every effort to win their "meaningless" finale against the Titans. It probably makes no difference, but they have not had much success with the "rest the starters" approach. They gave the Titans a freebie last year, and they would be swept by the Titans this year if they give them another freebie. Maybe there is some psychological edge lost vs. a division foe?
6. Hopefully, the Jets lose Sunday and Favre retires (for real). Nothing against the Jets per se, but I have my reasons.

35
by Jets fan in misery (not verified) :: Tue, 12/23/2008 - 8:20am

I'm just sayin'.... I think the Jets woulda gone further this year with pennington.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

CAPTCHA
To skip this, please log in.