isnt TO like 39?

Nah, he won't be 39 until the last year of the contract.

1- Pretty much my reaction. That's a lot of cash for an aging WR.

Is TO a Hall of Famer?

#3

Yes, TO is a HOFer. His consistent production as one of the best in the league should translate to a place. His career numbers are in line with some of the best ever (Mr Rice excepted) I would put him in first ballot, but someone will bring up all the acrimony and find a dumb reason to make him wait.

Move frees up about $3 million in cap space for this season so maybe re-signing Chris Canty can be next.

He may get in before Tags

Is TO a Hall of Famer?

I hate him for going nuclear on the Eagles, but yes, he's a Hall of Famer, maybe first ballot depending on how the last few years of his career go.

It's hard to separate the production of a WR and those of his QB but when a WR help three differents QBs to have their best personnal years, it's a HoFer.

would all of the drops impact the possibility at all?

I would consider TO to be one of the top 3-5 WR (and usually one of the top 1-2) since he was paired with Jerry Rice. (about 10 years ago?) However, I do believe he is slowing down a bit and will probably be "just" very good in 2 years and "just" good in in the last 1-2 years of his contract. I suspect the contract will get renegotiated after 2 years. I could see Dallas being very competitive for the playoffs in that period, especially if Pacman works out well (yeah, right) to go with Tank (much more likely) .

This does remove the potential distraction of TO politicing for a contract extension this year. That's smart. And as noted in #5 his cap number for this year drops considerably. But his average cap number for 2009-2011 is north of $10 million. I'd say the injury risk is pretty significant. A pretty good chance he doesn't see all of this contract.

Its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats.

What has TO every really done in the postseason or to get his team to the postseason?

#12: He's not the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl. ;^)

(Seriously, though, his performance on the field in XXXIX has to count for something.)

What TO did for the Eagles in that Super Bowl was as heroic as what Schilling did for the Red Sox, only without a sock as evidence.

And I don't blame him for 90% of the nonsense in Philadelphia, given how owner-friendly the contracts are; where he crossed the line was when he started to undermine his QB publicly, and that's when he had to go.

7 seasons with 13+ TDs, career #3 in receiving TDs, career #10 in receiving yards (and with just 1000y this season, he vaults to #5). Yeah, he's in.

Didn't TO also have what was considered to be one of the greatest post season catches ever to beat the Packers.

#15
He also had about 8 drops that game.
I think most of us would agree that looking at playoff numbers isn't the best way to evaluate a career as they often get remembered for big plays that can overshadow what would otherwise be a bad game or vice versa and the limited number of games severly hurts the sample size.

This guy work ethic, and dedication to the game might make him a valuable player for 3 or 4 years. Eve nif I hate the guy, the player is for sure a Hall of Famer.

Now Terrell has 34 million more reasons to live.

When TO went to Dallas there was a lot of speculation that he would become a disruption. So far that hasn't really been the case. Parcells leaving after one year probably helped reduce the risks of a TO problem.

But the risk hasn't gone away. If the Cowboys struggle any time over the next few years it will be interesting to see if TO reverts to form.

re 16: SF should never have had the opportunity to run that play. Irks me to this day.

#12

I can remember him absolutely destroying the Giants in the second half of a playoff game when coming from behind back when he was with the 49ers. Once they started to get TO the ball a San Fran victory just seemed inevitable (I think they were down by around 17 points at one stage).

The play he made against Washington for the 49ers (although not in the playoffs) is one of the best ondividual efforts on a play I have ever seen. Lavar Arrington and one of the Redskins DEs hit him about five yards behind the line of scrimmage and both just bounced off like they were hitting solid rock. He then sprinted upfield before cutting back along the formation and then turning upfield to run into the endzone, breaking tackles all the way. It was just awesome.

#7 - "Its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Stats."

Well certainly you wouldn't argue that TO wasn't famous, would you? If the Hall of FAME is based on recognizability then TO's probably a top-five all time player.

I'm not so sure that he's a first ballot HoFer. Art Monk owned the record books when he retired (briefly) and it took him over a decade to get in, and Art was generally revered for his professionalism as well as his skill.

TO has too many detractors I think to be first ballot, despite his gaudy numbers. But it really all depends on his HoF class. If you see guys like Brady, Manning, Tomlinson and Moss on the ballot in the same year, that hurts TO's candidacy.

Re: #12

I think it's not fair to claim that TO would be in the Hall of Stats but not in the Hall of Fame. His antics make him hard to swallow many times (and I'm a Cowboys fan), but to say he's not one of the greatest WRs of this era is to slight him purely for the attitude. He is definitely an odd duck and has been a locker room cancer before. But he's a great player, one of the best of this generation and belongs.

And if we're to look only at post season numbers to determine Hall of Fame status, I'd like all the people who think Aikman is a better QB than Marino to please stand up. Yeah, that's what I thought (again, I'm a Cowboys fan!). I love Aikman and he's a winner and all that, but Marino is a better QB period.

Same way, yes TO hasn't been unbelievable in the playoffs, but he's helped three teams get there, he's made 3 QBs have their best season with him as someone noted before, and he's a consistent threat on every play, every down.

The locker room crap of his gets in the way, but watch his game and tell me how many times he doesn't give it his all on the field. He's not giving up on plays like Moss and he's not dogging it like Moss. He's a pain in the neck, but he's a great player and that just can't be denied.

#22

I think comparing TO to Monk is disingenuous. The rap on Monk seemed to be that despite putting up the stats he was never considered one of the best in the game when he played. Anyone who doesn't think TO is one of the top 3 WRs in the league over the last ten years doesn't really know what he is talking about. His career roughly coincides with Marvin Harrison's and his numbers stack up aongside MH's despite the handicap of having to play with several different QBs in many different systems. The main reason for my mind that he should go in first ballot is that he hardly plays a game in which he isn't the focal point of the opponent's gameplan. He can dominate any game he plays in.

I remember being told about how the 49ers used him once to beat the Eagles (must have beeen about six or seven years ago). Basically the Niners coaches figured that Brian Dawkins for all his skills shouldn't be able to cover a player who is bigger, faster, stronger and could out-jump him like Owens could. The Eagles system at the time was heavily predicated on Dawkins being able to cover the opponent's WRs when the corners blitzed. Everytime the Niners saw the CB blitz on its way they simply sent the ball up high for Owens to go and get it, and the Eagles had no answer. And this is Brian Dawkins I am taliking about, who himself is probably a first ballot HOFer. Owens is capable of this kind of performance any Sunday, the guy changes the way defenses play his teams. Look at Kevan Barlow's stats when he played on the same team as Owens, and then without him. He probably didn't see a safety in the box for two years - also see Barber, Marion and the $45m contract, although he will be playing with TO for a few more years yet.

Re #19

Keep holding your breath for that one.

#12 - He's not just famous; he's IN-Famous!

Seriously...if you want to emphasize the "Fame" part of the Hall, then T.O. still gets in, first ballot. No one in the league has gotten more publicity this millenium than Mr. Owens. Is there a football fan in the country that doesn't have an opinion about this guy?

#12

If hall of "FAME" is your criteria, then how many players are more famous than TO? Most non-football fans even know him, he is likely the third most recognizable player in football today.

#24 - I'm not comparing Monk to TO (TO wishes he could be Art Monk), my point is that stats alone a HoFer do not make. However, stats often make the strongest case because all the other criteria is for the most part subjective.

Most of the comments in favor of TO being first ballot argue that he should be in the HoF based on his statistical production. My point is that that is often not good enough for first ballot. Ask Pete Rose. Conduct matters. Conduct hurt Art Monk - he wasn't showy enough, not loud enough to attract attention to his accomplishments. Conduct will probably hurt TO as well - in the minds of many sports fans and journalists all the gaudy stats and clutch playoff catches are offset by the negative publicity and locker room chaos he was responsible for.

Isn't T.O.'s "catch percentage" one of the worst in the league?

Doesn't this have any impact at all?

re #30

TO wishes he could be Art Monk? Really?

FO has become obsessed with players' behavior (see separate Pacman discussion). TO antics and annoyances aside, how much off the field trouble has TO caused? None. How many of TO's guns have been used in shootings? TO -- zero, Marvin Harrison -- 1. Is TO's on-field behavior really worse than Randy Moss?

Re 33:

Depends on whether you ask Joe Buck.

I would say yes, TO is a worse teammate than Moss. As well as I can remember, Moss has only done two things to get a reputation for on the field antics. 1) fake mooning Lambeau Field, and 2) leaving a game a few seconds early. I don't remember him ever doing to a QB what TO did to McNabb.

Based on performance on the field, he's HOF material. But we all know that they look at off the field stuff too. Look what happened to Michael Irvin. Mr. Owens hasn't won a Superbowl yet either.

re33)How many of TO’s guns have been used in shootings? TO — zero, Marvin Harrison — 1.

Marvin Harrison used one of TO's guns?

25) That game reminds of one play I recall. One replay shows the DB looking at Owens as the QB floats the ball. TO watches the throw and almost immediately looks away. He continues his route misdirecting the DB, who has no chance to know the ball is already in the air. TO sets it up with a couple of cuts, then runs to a spot and doesn't find the ball till the last second when the DB has no chance to react.

That might be more common than I think because that could be a hard camera angle to get a good replay or something. Still, I was just amazed and he seemed to just be toying with the defense.

34 - dogging a whole season as a Raider may enter the worst teammate discussion. I'll defer to Raiderjoe.

Re 37:

Perhaps, but everyone except maybe Andrew Walter had given up on the team as well. He didn't really make the situation any worse. Of course I don't know exactly what was happening in meetings or practice, so it's possible he was a locker room cancer who was destroying team chemistry. It just seems like Art Shell managed to do that by himself.

38: "Perhaps, but everyone except maybe Andrew Walter had given up on the team as well. [R. Moss] didn’t really make the situation any worse."

Leading by example, as it were. (Of course, Walter was in no position to just give up the way Moss did. Also, he could've thrown well to a guy like Moss, given adequate protection. A moot point now, but still...)

I also recall a playoff game in Giants stadium where he just flat out quit running his routes early in the game. Maybe not "antics",but worse.

Sadly, TO played for the 'boys, not the Pats, and that's make him a worst teammate, player and citizen than Moss for some... even when Moss had a hit-n-run on a cop and a pot charge against him...

TO is an entertainer and a heck of a player. He's the primary focus of the defense, he led the Eagles to the SB, helped the 'boys win twice their division and was the best receiver with the niners when Rice was still on the roster.
How couldn't he be a HoF ?

"Leading by example, as it were. ("

He was following the example set by the true leaders of the team: the coaches.

#34: "Conduct hurt Art Monk - he wasn’t showy enough, not loud enough to attract attention to his accomplishments." I don't think this is a very solid argument. Rice certainly wasn't showy or loud, but I think people noticed his accomplishments anyway-- and would have even if he'd retired in 1994 or 95, instead of 2004.

re: 38

The entire Oakland team gave up? Amazing how a team without anyone trying can have a top 10 defense. Ronald Curry certainly didn't give up either.

Just because the offense was bad doesn't mean the entire team quit. Moss quit, the offense sucked, and the defense was very good. Check the facts before making generalizations.

When things are going well, both TO and Moss are, as a rule, not a problem. When things start to go badly, both are likely to make things worse. Subjectively, I think TO is a bit more disruptive just because he's more vocal/obvious.

44,

Yeah but don't you know, Pats players can do no wrong! Now you see all the Pats fans saying everyone gave up on the Raiders or it was all the coaches fault. Ha, what a bunch of bull! Moss gave up on the team, plain and simple. He was a quitter!!! And you wouldn't see a single Pats fan defend him if he wasn't on their team. Saying he is any better than TO is laughable.

#41:

He’s the primary focus of the defense, he led the Eagles to the SB, helped the ‘boys win twice their division and was the best receiver with the niners when Rice was still on the roster.

How did he lead the Eagles to the Super Bowl? Cheering from the sideline?

When did the 'boys win their division twice with Owens? 2007 and ???

You are forgetting Rice was injured in 1997 and never really returned to form after a brief glimmer of former glory in 1998, right?

On TO's fame.

Its more like infamy, than fame in terms of accomplishment on the gridiron when it counted.

In terms of what he did in the Super Bowl with Philly, he did everything but get in the endzone, which is what Philly really needed. Greg Lewis has more career Super Bowl touchdowns than Owens. If Owens had one too, he'd be a shoo-in.

Regarding his domination of Brian Dawkins back in 2002 where he went 13 for 166 and 2 TD's. Ummm ... you do recall that the 49ers lost that game 38-17, right?

Yes, he's got gaudy stats, for now, because he is the leader in age with Harrison and Bruce and Galloway of a new wave of dominating wideouts. The question is whether these will look quite as gaudy in 10 years when younger guys like Randy Moss, Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Plexiglass, have also joined them atop all the leaderboards. Owens looks pretty unique now, but he probably won't in 10 years.

So, to summarize Andrew's position:
- Because Owens is a vanguard member of a new group of receivers that supposedly will be dominating the league for the next decade; and
- Because he turned in, by all objective accounts, one of the most courageous and impressive individual performances in Super Bowl history, but...did not score a touchdown; and
- Because the defense of his team gave up 38 points while he was shredding one of the best safeties of the era; and
- Because the Eagles were able to beat two mediocre playoff teams at home (one that finished 8-8, one that barely outscored their opponents and was also essentially an 8-8 team) without Owens in the lineup on the way to the Super Bowl--never mind that the Eagles haven't come close to 13-3 since Owens departure;
Owens has never accomplished anything, just compiled stats. Guess he thinks Barry Sanders isn't worthy of the Hall, either. Or Tim Brown, who played in a Super Bowl but didn't score a touchdown. James Lofton played in two Super Bowls, and he never caught a TD in the big game...what's he doing in the Hall? They better not let Cris Carter in, he never scored in the Super Bowl. So by virtue of Andrew's logic, we can stop entertaining those silly thoughts that these guys made any contribution to their team, other than compiling stats.