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05 Jan 2009

James Harrison Wins Defensive Player of the Year

Harrison takes home Defensive Player of the Year, with DeMarcus Ware finishing second.

Posted by: Aaron Schatz on 05 Jan 2009

35 comments, Last at 11 Jan 2009, 3:23pm by MurphyZero

Comments

1
by Israel P. - Jerusalem (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 2:36pm

And he looks fiercer than the others.

2
by andrew :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 2:46pm

Not that I have any problems with Harrison, but if they held the vote at the end of the season, Ed Reed might've been closer.

9
by Gubdude :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 3:49pm

When do they hold the voting?

My vote goes to Ware, but I'm biased.

3
by Mungo (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 2:49pm

I don't hate this as much as I do the Jerod Mayo/Defensive Rookie thing, but I do feel this is purely a reflection of the Steelers making the playoffs and the Cowboys staying at home (not that I'm crying about that, I hate the Cowpokes). Basically, I think that Demarcus Ware does everything that Harrison does, and does it better. He's an unstoppable force.

10
by FireOmarTomlin :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 3:52pm

"Basically, I think that Demarcus Ware does everything that Harrison does, and does it better. He's an unstoppable force."

Too bad reality disagrees with you...

the only thing he does better in 2008 by any quantifiable metric is generate more sacks

http://www.nfl.com/players/demarcusware/profile?id=WAR350675
http://www.nfl.com/players/jamesharrison/profile?id=HAR600985

Harrison in 2008 generated more FF's, more INTs, more Safeties, more Tackles, more Passes Defensed. It's not on NFL.com, but I read he also drew 7 holding penalties (Ware 0), and was offsides less. (Can't remember where I read it though). Would love to see someone else support/refute it with legit stats.

16
by Mungo (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 8:51pm

You say reality disagrees with me and then quote stats? If you're happy that basic numbers are all there is to it, then all the best to you, but I prefer to analyse game tape and to hell with what the conventional stats say. Both Harrison and Ware are elite pass rushers, but Ware is way out in front in terms of playing the run. He's really improved that part of his game over the last year or two.

21
by cd6 :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 9:30am

You say reality disagrees with me and then quote stats?
Uhh, buddy, maybe you forgot what site you're on.

Argument A: Harrison is better because he's got more tackles, more INTs, more FFs, more passes defensed.
Argument B: To hell with stats, Ware is better because I say he's way out in front in terms of playing the run!

Well, gosh, I'm convinced now.

22
by Mungo (not verified) :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 9:56am

You're right, I do tend to forget what site this is. I guess I'm not really offering an alternative argument in my last post, just saying that stats like tackles and sacks aren't really a good way to completely evaluate a player. I was offering an observation that Harrison is often quite weak against the run, whereas Ware is very good. Both are obviously great pass rushers. Rather than getting somewhat sarcastic and pissy responses I was hoping someone might disagree, and say that they saw Harrison playing the run well, or whatever, and then we could discuss how/when etc. Maybe I am on the wrong site.

25
by CowboyJoe (not verified) :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 5:33pm

clearly shouldn't have won this award because

Cowboyyzzzzz!!!1!

30
by Anonymous Too! (not verified) :: Wed, 01/07/2009 - 1:04pm

Okay, I'll say it. Harrison plays teh run well. My evidence is watching every Steeler game this year. Good enough?

32
by Mungo (not verified) :: Wed, 01/07/2009 - 4:03pm

I think we're getting somewhere. Now I can refer you to some games you've already watched, like week 9 against the Giants, where the Steelers front 3 does an absolute demolition job against the run, but only Farrior of the LBs seems able to take advantage. The rest of them, and most of all Harrison, flop around getting blocked at the 2nd level. Or I could refer you to week 11, where Marcus "what the hell happened to my rookie form" O'Neill squared up against Harrison and pushed him around all day (uh....except when they were passing, when he got his ass handed to him). O'Neill didn't push many people around as a run blocker this year, I can tell you (LdT can probably tell you too, although he's probably too good a teammate).

4
by Eli (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 2:57pm

Great pick and you could make a case for all the finalists. It's scary to think what the Ravens D would be if they hadn't cut him.

5
by JED (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 3:02pm

James Harrison never played for the Ravens. He's been a Steeler his entire career

6
by Mungo (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 3:05pm

I beg to differ, he was an offseason member of the Ravens in 2004. Steelers cut him, and then re-signed him when the Ravens released him.

8
by Israel P. - Jerusalem (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 3:37pm

The Ravens sent him to NFL Europe.

7
by TTP (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 3:20pm

Raven's Defense + James Harrison = Steelers Defense

31
by Anonymous Too! (not verified) :: Wed, 01/07/2009 - 1:09pm

Nice.

11
by Steve (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 4:12pm

I don't think the Steelers making the playoffs and the Cowboys missing them had much of an effect on the vote. FireOmarTomlin does an excellent job above of breaking down why Harrison got the edge over Ware and,as others mentioned, Reed's slow start is what did him in. Unlike the MVP award, team success doesn't seem to be as much of a factor with the Offensive/Defensive Player of the Year Awards. Ed Reed won it 2004 when the Ravens finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs and Jason Taylor won in '06 even though the Dolphins finished 6-10. By the same token, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Drew Brees be named the OPTY even though the Saints went 8-8.

12
by bubqr :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 4:47pm

Ware vs Harrison ? Eveything has been said, except what is IMO a very important thing : Harrison, is not only one of the 5 best defenders in the game, he is also one of the best ST player in the NFL. And that, is amazing.

13
by KJT (not verified) :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 4:57pm

Harrison was the more complete defender of the two (other being Ware). If I had a vote though, even being a diehard Steeler fans, I would throw it Ed Reed's way because that man is simply frightening. He's quickly approaching all-time status.

14
by Key19 :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 6:39pm

As a diehard Cowboys fan, I would've voted for Ed Reed. However, I would've said that DeMarcus Ware was better than James Harrison. Harrison plays on a better defense and therefore he cannot get the same level of protection given to him by teams as DeMarcus can. LaMar Woodley had 11.5 sacks this season. Greg Ellis only had 8. James also has a Troy Polamalu behind him. Overall, DeMarcus may not have gotten a safety (but even if you credit a safety as being worth 3 sacks, DeMarcus still finishes with more sacks) or an Interception, but I'd be willing to bet he gets a lot more double teams than Harrison simply because he doesn't have a top-notch pass rusher on the other side.

Also, I'd like to see the numbers on how often Ware and Harrison dropped into pass coverage.

15
by Yaguar :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 8:41pm

Yes, I agree with this. I think the Steelers' defense is far more conducive to racking up awesome stats than the Cowboys' is.

19
by Independent George :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 11:20pm

On the other hand, the irrational Harrison vs. Ware thread is thus far quite preferable to the original.

17
by Independent George :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 11:12pm

This is the best I could come up with.

QB: Jamie Martin (SF)
RB: Edgerrin James (ARZ)
WR: James Jones (GB), James Thrash (WAS)
TE:
OT:
OG:
C:

DE: Erasmus James (MIN), James Hall (STL)
DT:
LB: James Harrison (PIT), James Farrior (PIT), Bradie James (DAL)
CB:
S: James Butler (NYG)

18
by Independent George :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 11:19pm

QB: JaMarcus Russell (OAK)
RB:
WR:
TE: Marcus Pollard (SEA)
OT: Marcus McNeil (SD)
OG:
C:

DT: Marcus Stroud (BUF)
DE: Marcus Spears (DAL), Marcus Harrison (CHI)
LB: DeMarcus Ware (DAL), Marcus Washington (WAS)
CB: Marcus Truffant (SEA)
SL

33
by Anonymous25 (not verified) :: Wed, 01/07/2009 - 5:39pm

How could you forget Marcus Allen?

20
by andrew :: Mon, 01/05/2009 - 11:40pm

At first I thought you meant active players only, but you include Erasmus James... well, he was cut earlier this year by Washington I think, didn't play for the Vikings.

James is the proper name of many players commonly called Jim, so using them you get a lot better:

QB: James Edward "Jim" Kelly (Bills).
RB: James Nathanial "Jim" Brown (Cleveland)
RB: James Charles "Jim" Taylor (Green Bay)

Note - while we can get these to Jims in as their real name is James, we cannot get Jim Thorpe, whose real name is not James but Jacob. Jacobus, actually.

WR: James Lofton (Packers, Raiders, Bills, etc)
OG: James Thomas "Jim" Parker (Baltimore Colts)
C: James John "Jim" Langer (Miami)

CB: James Earl "Jimmy" Johnson (San Fran)

KR: Lionel "Little Train" James (San Diego)
P: John James (Atlanta, Detroit, Houston)

23
by TGisriel (not verified) :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:13pm

While Jim Parker played some guard, he was primarily a tackle. I certainly don't diagree with including him in any "All-Star" list, but I would list him as an offensive tackle.

27
by Independent George :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 11:49pm

Actually, it was meant to be an active roster; I was going by memory, and Minnesota was the last place I remembered Erasmus James playing. I'll update him to being a Street Free Agent.

24
by Matt W (not verified) :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 12:49pm

At QB, Jim Sorgi surely gets the nod over Jamie Martin (as would Hole in Zone, if Hole in Zone were a QB named "James"). At DT, Jimmy Kennedy is on an active roster and even has a sack, so he's in. But this team definitely wants to run a 3-4. At C, Jamey Richard.... his full name is "Jameson" but I get to count that, right? Thank you, NFL.com "search rosters by player name" function.

...oh drat, "Jimmy" is Kennedy's full name. He's off the team.

26
by Jimmy Oz (not verified) :: Tue, 01/06/2009 - 10:45pm

For the All-James All-Stars (not to be confused with the All-Time All-James All-Stars) i'd pick James Chadwick Pennington to QB with James Bradley Johnson to back-up.

Having a look at the Marcuses on PFR, interesting to note that almost all of them played in the last 20 years... but now we're getting into Freakonomics territory.

29
by Matt W (not verified) :: Wed, 01/07/2009 - 12:19pm

James Chadwick Pennington

Sweet. I still say Sorgi gets it over Brad Johnson.

About the Marcuses, it's not that mysterious; just go to Baby Name Wizard Voyager and check out the popularity of the name "Marcus." It shoots way up during the 70s (probably because of revived interest in Marcus Garvey), and those people become NFL-eligible during the 90s.

One of the word verifications is "Weiner," which is my name.

28
by BlueStarDude :: Wed, 01/07/2009 - 12:58am

Just a couple of points to tack onto the Harrison vs Ware irrational debate. Although Harrison has more total tackles, the solo tackles are basically even (Ware had a couple of more). That Harrison had so many more assists suggests that he had more quality players around him making plays (it could suggest other things as well, but those would be pretty negative against Ware, e.g., lack of hustling to the play, and anyone who has watched Ware play would rule that out).

Perhaps more importantly: Both of them lineup primarily on the defense's right side and so would be involved in stopping runs to the offense's left side. According to Adjusted Line Yards, Dallas is way better at LEFT END runs than Pitt is, and they have a sizable advantage at LEFT TACKLE runs. Ware is a huge part of that discrepancy.

Congrats to Harrison. He's certainly deserving. But, of course, this biased commenter would have voted for Ware as well.

34
by Jets fan in misery (not verified) :: Thu, 01/08/2009 - 8:31am

this award should have gone to vernon gholston. clearly. that guy is just .. tearing it up.

35
by MurphyZero :: Sun, 01/11/2009 - 3:23pm

Steeler fan here, so I am definitely biased (also against Cowgirls, the players not the cheerleaders). I would say that Harrison was deserving of the award, but not overwhelmingly so. Ed Reed, Ware, Porter, and Polamalu could all have gotten the award. I could be missing a few too. It comes down to a popularity contest among the voters (seems very similar to this years college season) and apparently Harrison is popular among the voters.

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