Writers of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

11 May 2009

Rosenhaus In Review

One of the many wonderful people we've begun to follow on Twitter (follow us here is prominent agent Drew Rosenhaus, who uses Twitter mostly as a way to do PR for his clients.

A sample Rosenhaus post might be something like this one about Lions running back Kevin Smith:

I like Kevin Smith's guarantee that the Lions will make the play-offs in 09. You must have confidence to succeed in the NFL and Kev has it

It's hard to confirm or refute the point one way or another; it's true that if Smith literally had no confidence, he probably would not be a successful NFL player. He might also be afraid to leave, say, his bed.

Some of Rosenhaus' Tweets, though, are extremely quantifiable. Take this recent one regarding Rams punter Donnie Jones:

It was a shame that punter Donnie Jones of the Rams did not make the Pro Bowl last season. He put up the best numbers in the NFC by far.

Looking at our numbers from last season for punters, St. Louis only gained 3.95 points of field position on punts, which isn't particularly impressive. If we look at the points gained or lost strictly on the punts without considering returns, though, Jones' 11.85 points gained are actually the best in the NFC by a wide margin; 49ers punter Andy Lee was second, with 6.48 points gained on his punts.

So you can score one for Rosenhaus on that one, but how frequently are his claims accurate? Well, welcome to a new, potentially reoccurring feature here at FO: Rosenhaus In Review. We'll break down a few of Rosenhaus' most recent Tweets and analyze them using our numbers and research.

I expect LeSean McCoy to be a big contributor this year for the Eagles. The Eagles offensive scheme is the perfect fit for his skill set.

Well, this one isn't provable statistically, but we can look at the research done by our friends at NFL Draft Scout, which is freely available on NFL.com for this year's class, to see what they think about McCoy's skill set.

To work in Philadelphia's version of the West Coast offense as a back, it's pretty obvious that you need to be a versatile back, capable of receiving and pass blocking in addition to simply running the ball. McCoy is certainly a superb receiver, as the profile notes, "Very natural hands as a receiver; will excel on swing and screen passes. Uses his quick feet to run crisp out routes."

As for his blocking skills? Well, to put it nicely, not so much. "A liability in pass protection, throwing a shoulder instead of moving his feet to take on or even just get in the way of a rusher. Whiffs on his cut blocks against blitzing linebackers."

We suppose that as blocking might not be part of McCoy's skill set, Rosenhaus isn't including that in his discussion.

Look for Eric Winston to make the Pro Bowl this season. The Houston Texans' right tackle is one of the most underrated players in the NFL.

Perhaps Winston will, and perhaps he's underrated. But that doesn't play out in our numbers. As a pass protector, Winston is unimpressive; among right tackles, only San Diego's Jeromey Clary allowed more sacks, according to our game charting project, than the seven Winston allowed. As a run blocker, there's no signature in our Adjusted Line Yards indicating that he has a huge impact; the Texans were 21st in the league on runs behind right tackle and 13th on runs to right end, and were 31st on runs behind left tackle (where Winston might pull to on runs). Their best performance was on runs up the middle, where they were seventh.

While the Cardinals insist they won't trade him, I feel several teams would give up a 1st round pick and more for my client Darnell Dockett.

Well, we can't say that Dockett is or isn't worth a first round pick and more without polling all 32 NFL GM's, although it's hard to fathom that teams who were only willing to give up third and fifth-round picks for players like Shaun Rogers and Marcus Stroud a year ago would give up a first-round pick and more for Dockett.

With that being said, Dockett's performance last year was reasonably impressive. He ranked 18th in the league amongst defensive tackles by making 6.4% of his team's plays, while his 40 stops ranked 13th. What was most impressive, though, were his 20 defeats; that was behind only Jay Ratliff and Kevin Williams amongst interior linemen. He was also second amongst defensive tackles with 14 quarterback hits.

It's hard to see a team giving up a first-round pick for Dockett, but he was a very good defensive tackle a year ago.

Our client Travis Fisher was released today by the Lions. Travis is a top notch cornerback and he will not be out of a job for long.

It seems strange to suggest that a cornerback who was only a starter for half the season with the 2008 Detroit Lions is top-notch, but we can examine Fisher's performance on the field regardless.

Fisher put up the best numbers of any regular Lions cornerback a year ago, allowing 9.1 adjusted yards per pass and a 42 percent success rate. Leigh Bodden was at 9.6 yards per pass with a 38 percent success rate, while Brian Kelly held up the rear with a dire 11.2 yards per pass and 34 percent success rate.

While it's not possible to totally extricate Fisher's performance from the players around him, players with similar statistical profiles in 2008 would include Dunta Robinson (franchised, 9.2 yards per pass with a 44 percent success rate), Leon Hall (former first round pick, 8.8 yards per pass with a 41 percent success rate) and Terence Newman (given a huge contract last offseason, 9.3 yards per pass with a 40 percent success rate). Those statistics don't mean that Fisher's on a level with those cornerbacks, but it does point out that it's not impossible for a top-notch corner to put up those sort of statistics.

Fisher might not be as good as Rosenhaus presents him to be, but he's also probably better than anything else the Lions had at cornerback, either in 2008 or in 2009.

Posted by: Bill Barnwell on 11 May 2009

24 comments, Last at 18 May 2009, 1:26am by old cat

Comments

1
by R O (not verified) :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 5:06pm

Enough already! How many are on Rosenhores' payroll?

I just got through complaining about this over at PFT. Enough with the free Rosenhore pub! please!

2
by Sifter :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 5:35pm

Hmmm mixed feelings about this potential feature. It wasn't as snarky as I expected, but I think it potentially could be and a column turning into how much smarter Bill Barnwell/FO is than Drew Rosenhaus is probably not compelling reading for me.

But if kept as a purely analytical piece it MIGHT be OK. But why focus on Rosenhaus? You could 'mythbust' an almost infinite amount of football opinions written somewhere on the WWW. I see that Rosenhaus makes himself an easy target, but please at least consider writing tid-bits about players that aren't represented by Rosenhaus.

8
by tuluse :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 1:54am

You totally missed the point. This isn't about being smarter than Rosenhaus, it's about examining the truthfulness behind Rosenhous's evaluations of his client.

15
by Temo :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 9:26am

Yea, I'm pretty sure Bill realizes he's not smarter than Rosenhaus. Seeing as how the latter has many more millions of dollars than the former (or really any of us).

17
by Sophandros :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 1:26pm

Jessica Simpson has many millions of dollars more than we do. Does that mean that she's smarter than us?

-------------
Sports talk radio and sports message boards are the killing fields of intellectual discourse.

23
by DrewTS (not verified) :: Wed, 05/13/2009 - 2:26pm

On the subject of making money in show business, yes. On the history of the Byzantine Empire, probably not. Personally, I find the exploits of Basil II Bulgaroctonus very interesting, but I'd rather have that phat Dukes of Hazzard money.

3
by Theo :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 6:46pm

I don't like 3 things about this.

1: I'm sick and tired of reading about twitter. From what I understand it's a thing people use to spread and get news. Twitter itself is not news.

2: Drew Rosenhaus. Just like referees: they're best when they are not talked about. They make the NFL be the NFL but they shouldn't be the center of attention.

3: It's pointless. The man's -job- is to at least distort the truth. What's the point in writing about it.

4
by Raiderjoe :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 7:31pm

dont understand the twiiter and dont like dreww rosenhuse so not interesrub in twittering

5
by Goodbye Ladies :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 8:26pm

I think Bill went way too easy on Rosenhaus / Travis Fisher here. Sure, Fisher may have garnered a mediocre score in the FO metrics by playing in a scant eight games, but the year before he was basically a full time starter and had an abyssmal 33% success rate, and had the same success rate a year before with St. Louis. He also let up an average of 9.53 yards per pass those years. PFP 2007 noted that Travis Fisher had some of the worst metrics of any cornerback charted. Yikes.

Rosenhaus is entitled to spin his clients, but calling Fisher a "top notch" corner given his recent history beyond last season fails the laugh test.

The "Goodbye, Ladies" Draft Report

16
by justanothersteve :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 1:10pm

Agreed on Bill being way to easy. Another point is while the Rams punter may have blown away the competition in raw numbers, returns do count. Some punters have great hang times which results in lots of fair catches. I don't follow the Rams so I don't know if that is true here. But that returns can make that much a difference means either he's outkicking his coverage or the Rams coverage units are abyssmal. Or both.

19
by bengt (not verified) :: Wed, 05/13/2009 - 5:42am

Exactly on the punting. Just compare San Diego's punting game in their two playoff games last season for reference.

6
by Pat F. :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 8:56pm

Well I for one liked it! I had no idea who the St. Louis punter was, much less that he was by one measure the best in the NFL last year, nor was I aware that Travis Fisher's charting stats compared favorably to Robinson or Newman. It's not that I couldn't have found this information myself, I just never would have thought to look.

So I'm in favor of a feature like this. I agree with others that restricting it to Rosenhaus isn't a great idea for a variety of reasons, but I'd really like a "Little Blurbs About 5 Guys You Probably Haven't Thought Much About" feature, along the lines of Goldstein's "Ten Packs" at BP.

7
by AlanSP :: Mon, 05/11/2009 - 9:33pm

As others have pointed out, it's sort of silly to point out that an agent is saying questionable things to paint his client in a positive light. That's his job. What do you expect him to say? "Eric Winston is a mediocre player, but hey, every team needs mediocre players"?

11
by Mr Shush :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 7:14am

The numbers don't really jibe with the eye-test for me on this one. Winston didn't play quite as well in 2008 as in 2007, but I'd still regard him as certainly one of the ten best right tackles in football, and possibly the top 5. Like most RTs, he's a better run-blocker than pass-blocker, struggling with some of the faster guys off the edge, and he certainly wasn't helped by Bruener, the only tight end on the roster who could block, having declined to near uselessness by last year. I wonder if the Shanahan-Kubiak-Gibbs zone running scheme has a tendency to reduce the specific effects of individual offensive linemen on runs in their direction, as opposed to runs generally, making it (even) harder to evaluate them individually through the use of directional ALY. Whatever the case may be, it's clear the team likes him: he got a big, big contract extension before last season, despite being two years away from free agency. Of course, none of this alters the fact that as a right tackle he is highly unlikely to make the pro-bowl, and with good reason.

9
by The Hypno-Toad :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 2:16am

Whenever I hear about Twitter, I think of Samuel Jackson voicing Gin Rummy on "The Boondocks" saying, "Fun fact: Nothing typed by someone's thumbs has ever been important."

10
by Omroth :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 5:08am

Oh guys come on, you're taking this way too seriously. This is a really fun feature which is poking a little fun at the sheer ludicrousness of the idea that Rosenhaus is helping his clients by twittering them.

12
by MCS :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 8:31am

If you want to post this tripe, that's your decision. However, I will not be reading.

I believe that this serves as little more than free publicity for Rosenhaus and his clients. He will always put a positive spin on their accomplishments and capabilities. Most of the time, your statistics will refute his claims.

Not big news.

**FO Reader since 2003**

13
by R O (not verified) :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 9:07am

I agree with the other posters to a point. If you want to do this expand the feature. A better idea is to give the real low-down (how old does that make me look I wonder) on the players that ESPN incessantly hypes and show how they are either not all they're cracked up to be or even more valuable than advertised.

THAT is a column I would actually want to read. When I see anything resembling Rosenhores name I just want to, you know run somewhere and wretch.

14
by Anonimouse! (not verified) :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 9:08am

I liked this article. It'd be nice if some other agents had similar feeds, so (A) such a column wouldn't end up just promoting Rosenhaus (B) you could compare to see which agents were most dishonest and (C) you'd have a bigger group of players to look at.

For CB stats, I think you really need to know whether he was generally covering the #1 or #2 receiver, and you need to know how many times he was targeted (relative to the other corners).

18
by Martial (not verified) :: Tue, 05/12/2009 - 5:37pm

I am fascinated by agents, what they do, and how they do it. They have a huge impact on football and deserve to be brought into the light of day. FO's use of stats vs statements could provide one way of doing that.

Therefore, I'd prefer a column less focused on one agent.

21
by Theo :: Wed, 05/13/2009 - 9:29am

As compiled by Draft Countdown.
(http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33694)

17. Willie Colon (Steelers) 5.75 sacks allowed (16 starts) RFA
...
22. Jeromey Clary (Chargers) 6.5 sacks allowed (16 starts)
...
27. Alex Barron (Rams) 7.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)
29. Eric Winston (Texans) 8.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)
30. Stacy Andrews (Bengals) 9.5 sacks allowed (15 starts)
31. Adam Snyder (49ers) 9.5 sacks allowed (13 starts)
32. Levi Brown (Cardinals) 11.0 sacks allowed (16 starts)

Taking these 2 sources into consideration, those are the guys at the bottom of the RT rankings.

20
by bengt (not verified) :: Wed, 05/13/2009 - 5:46am

As a pass protector, Winston is unimpressive; among right tackles, only San Diego's Jeromey Clary allowed more sacks, according to our game charting project, than the seven Winston allowed.

Quite astonishing that the name 'Willie Colon' does not appear in this sentence.

22
by Bowl Game Anomaly :: Wed, 05/13/2009 - 11:47am

Winston could become the best RT in football next season and he still wouldn't make the Pro Bowl. RTs don't make Pro Bowl teams, only LTs do. Rosenhaus ought to know that.

(Formerly "The McNabb Bowl Game Anomaly")

24
by old cat (not verified) :: Mon, 05/18/2009 - 1:26am

Better tell all those people who voted Willie Anderson in all those times that they got the wrong guy

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

CAPTCHA
To skip this, please log in.