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22 Dec 2009
TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
TMQ's got a special feature on the 12 Days Of Christmas.
30 comments, Last at 26 Dec 2009, 12:32pm by tuluse
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Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Kind of a curious choice on the worst play of the season. Looked like a pretty difficult catch by the WR to me. Certainly not worse than the myriad stupid personal fouls or stupid coaching decisions that have happened throughout the year. Just this week, we saw Jim Zorn call one of the stupidest plays in recent memory.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
It's pretty ridiculous that every week there is a play that was worse than every play of the entire season to date.
Early in the season most choices are justifiable, but this week's is a reach needed for no reason other than to maintain the continuity of the bit.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Someone at the NYT said that the Zorn play surpassed the Belichick 4th and 2 and Tomlin onside kick as the stupidest play of the season.
I have no idea how a sports writer can consider the latter two to be in the same universe as the former, but hyperbole is apparently the order of the day.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
I completely agree. Belichick and Tomlin made defensible to good calls that failed while Zorn was just mocking the Redskins with one of the most indefensible calls ever.
- Alvaro
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Of course Zorn has a defense, his team was down by 20 odd and it was the last play of the half. Is there a better time to try a trick play? You tell me.
Yes the play itself looked awful, but if Hunter Smith had completed that pass, no one would even be talking about it. In fact they might even be praising the 'flair' of the call.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
The play looked awful because Hunter Smith just totally froze like a deer in headlights. All he needed to do was catch the ball, immediately turn and throw to the WR waiting at the sidelines with seven blockers for five Giants.
Absolutely no idea why he panicked. He had plenty of time.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
I agree with this. The play concept has a lot of merit. The Giants were misaligned by the "gate" and Smith had options to his side as well.
The problem is a) you have no idea how the Giants are going to play it and b) Smith isn't the guy you want playing "QB" in a situation like that.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Seemed like he totally threw to the wrong guy as it appeared to be a giant bubble screen to the up back in motion.
Smith chose to throw deep lolipop instead.
Zorn: "Hey Dan, suck it!" *crotch chop*
fairly comical the way it went, but would have been interesting to see it thrown to guy in motion and see if extra blockers could have opened a hole or two for him.
dumbest part seem to run it right after the timeout, lost the element of surprise completely
Holmgren better leave Zorny on the scrap heap
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Running the play after the timeout wasn't bad because at least they had an idea how the Giants would line up. I can't imagine there's a lot of film on the Giants lining up to the swinging gate.
The issue is what Pat stated above--Smith's execution of the play.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
The CB may have looked into the backfield a couple times, but when the pass arrived, he was in pretty good coverage--the freakin' pass was about 4 feet OB--Wallace made an outstanding catch. Tiny window. Amazing throw and catch.
What's the old saying, there is no defense for the perfect pass?
The worst play is probably the decision to rush three guys that whole last drive. Jeeee-zus. Maybe even have an LB spying on Ben so that when he breaks free from the initial push, the LB is available to lay the wood...?
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
I agree. As a Packers fan, kudos to Ben and Wallace for the great play! It's the only Pit. game I've seen this year, but I was impressed by Ben's accuracy and decision-making during the game.
The Packers were getting pressure with only three lineman during that final drive. The consolation for Packers fans arrived a few hours later when Minnesota crumbled into a heap of poo resembling the Bears...
Back to Easterbrook, picking a stupidER play from that same game would be Bush allowing receivers to run by not once but twice for huge receptions!
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Can't help myself after hearing this on the radio this morning. The 12 days of Bearsmas.
http://beargoggleson.com/2009/12/18/12-days-of-bearsmas-audio/
12 Men on the Field
11 Wasted Draft Picks
10 Yard Cushions
9 Points from field goals
8 Arm tackles
7 Bad Free Agents
6 Prime time Losses
5 Cutler Picks
4 False Starts
3 Yards Per Carry
2 Men in motion
And a Blown Challenge by Lovie
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Okay that is pretty funny.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
At the end, they should add "oh, and none of the days are for offensive linemen because we don't have any."
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Why do quarterbacks not call their own plays? Because they aren't capable. Manning has a complete understanding of his offense and defenses to the point where he probably understands them better than most offensive coordinators in the league. His preparation, understanding and ability to think on the fly give his team a supreme advantage.
Why's he sacked so little? Is it because he has the best O-Line in the league? Certainly not. His O-Line play last year was terrible early in the year. If he was David Carr he'd be sacked 7 times per game and nobody would blame him. But he knows how to go through his pre-snap reads, he knows his hot routes and played fantastic. A QB is more responsible for his sack total ( and not just his line) than most people give credit.
Jim Kelly is the last qb I can remember that called his own plays, and people worry that a QB will call too many pass plays. Well, being #1 in passing and #32 in rushing hasn't held back the Colts offense, Manning hasn't been sacked too much, and although his INT total is a little elevated, not all the picks were his fault. He's also been extremely efficient.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
You could be right about QBs being bad at calling their own plays, but until most QBs are allowed to call their own plays and either succeed or fail at it, you have zero evidence that this is actually the case.
I think a more plausible reason is that most offenses like to run multiple personnel packages, and so it's necessary for the coaches on the sidelines to match personnel with play calls for the situation. And as long as you're going to substitute players, there's not much reason to not huddle up.
Since the Colts run nearly the same personnel on every play and rely more on great execution to make their offense run, a no huddle makes more sense.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
But don't you think there is a reason why coaches don't let guys call their own plays? Don't you see there is a reason why certain quarterbacks can't call audibles?
The coaches look at the cost/benefit of said action, and having a guy call his own plays doesn't increase your chances of winning, and effect YOUR job security. Coaches would be risk averse in letting guys call plays. I doubt you'd see an above average QB call his plays... You'd have to have a top 5 guy that you were nearly certain would succeed. If there were 10 more Peyton Mannings out there I think you'd have more guys calling plays, but as good as some of these other guys are, it too risky and requires extra work.
There are guys that have a lot of input, but calling plays is different.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
I think many QBs are not allowed to audible because of coaches' ego. Isn't it Jason Campbell who wasn't allowed to audible out of plays that he knew would be a complete dissaster but had to run anyway? That has got to be the biggest confidence-killer ever. And probably won't motivate you to try very hard either, I would assume.
- Alvaro
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
I don't think you can look at coach behavior and assume that the most common decision is the right one.
I'm not saying that more quarterbacks should be like Peyton, but I do think coaches make safe choices more often than not, even if a riskier decision might increase their odds of winning. Those who step out of line are excoriated unless they produce successful results immediately.
Look at the near-universal condemnation of Belichick for his call on 4th and 2. You'd think of any coach in the league, he would have earned a little latitude by now.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
TMQ conveniently overlooks that fact that last year Manning was (roughly speaking) least sacked yet most hit. The OL is improved, but far from great. CJ is an improvement in pass pro at LT over Ugoh, who was a better run blocker..... And few injuries this year. But great OL? Not on his life.
Oh, and 3 of Manning's last 4 picks were tipped by the receiver--Clark was enraged at himself with the last one, and made amends (in his own words) with the followup TD catch and run.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
Well I will definitely defer to a Colts fan, but it seems a little strange that a guy with poor mobility like Manning manages to complete so many deep patterns behind a supposedly terrible O-line. His WRs aren't exactly lightning quick guys either, so to run a deep pattern's gonna take some time. Something's not adding up. Maybe he doesn't throw deep as often as I thought. Maybe he gets hurried a lot but they're never close enough to hit him, let alone sack him.
*Looking up my handy FOA 2009 for pass depth info:
P.Manning threw Deep on 10% of passes, and Bomb on 9% in 2008, in 2007 he went 12% Deep and 9% Bomb.
Comparing him to randomly selected peers:
Tom Brady '07: Deep 11% and Bomb 7%,
Eli Manning '08: Deep 12% and Bomb 8%,
And some noted checkdowners:
Trent Edwards in '08: 11% Deep, 5% Bomb
Jason Campbell in '08: 9% Deep, 5% Bomb
Manning seems to throw deep a fair bit, certainly as much as Brady/Eli and much more than Trent/JC.
And more data (yay!) Peyton was 18th in the Sacks + Hits list last year with 55, well behind Mr David Garrard on 110 and Mr Kurt Warner on 101. He's 9th on the hits only list with 41, again trailing Garrard (73) and Warner (76). Drew Brees actually had very similar numbers to Peyton in '08, 44 hits and 57 hits + sacks
He also doesn't feature in the top 10 DVOA of QBs when hurried either which means his 2008 DVOA was negative when hurried (assuming he met the 20 hurry minimum). So he can't have been hurried too often or there's no way his DVOA for '08 would have been 36.1%
Maybe that helps, maybe it doesn't, but I personally believe Peyton could be playing behind a lot worse lines. And I also believe his line is NOT the best in the NFL like the sack numbers might say. Maybe we could adjust O-line sack rates by a QBs career sack rate or something like that. So Green Bay's line might get a bit of credit for having Rodgers behind it or Indy's line might get penalised a little for Manning's presence.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
They pass block fine, but individually none are great athletes or powerful blockers. Johnson isn't really even that good at all, but relative to Ugoh, who can fall asleep at times, they know what they're getting with him. If he's not athletic enough to really hold off a top rusher, they just make sure he gets a hand on the guy and design the plays with that in mind.
Guys on that line get beat all the time. But QBs with great pocket presence can make that small one step shuffle like Manning, Brady, and others, can do without taking off running or taking their eyes off their receivers. Where the Colts have been good/lucky is that it never seems like more than just one guy gets beat. Pollak would get beat a lot, his replacement DeVan gets beat occasionally, Diem and Johnson will get beat plenty, sometimes a tight end gets beat, but it's generally just the one guy at a time. There's very rarely good pressure up the middle. Saturday and Lilja are the line's best players by far. So as long as Peyton knows where the pressure is coming from, he's able to step up a bit. On the rare occasions where he's sacked, it's because he doesn't have that space right there to move to. The 49ers were the only team I've seen so far that consistently caused that kind of problems for them.
The fact that they'll never overpower anyone and aren't even blocking stretch plays well the past 2 years, as well as the presence of non-star tackles leads people to call them a "crap O Line." And I certainly don't have a ton of confidence in them. They're not what they were before last year. But they're coached by one of the best guys in the game and have a very very smart and experienced QB/Center combo. Losing Saturday's physical skills this past year would not have been devastating, especially since Richard seems to have what it takes. But you can safely assume that they wouldn't be unbeaten this year without Saturday, as that pre-snap rapport he has with Manning couldn't be duplicated by a 2nd year guy.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
I don't think it's that Peyton Manning throws deep so often, but when he does it works. You see Reggie Wayne running wide open down the sidelines, or a guy in single coverage etc. He picks his spots well.
And yes, his pick total is up, but it's not really his fault as I'd discredit a number of those picks. INT's can be an accurate representation or they can be misleading and in this case Manning has been unlucky. It sucks for him though because in 3 years when people look back at the stats nobody will remember the tipped balls that weren't his fault, his number will be his number.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
He might win an MVP even with 15 picks though, so I'm sure he won't care very much.
I never really feel like he throws deep super often, but maybe my definition of deep is off.
One thing I tried to edit in to the above before my internet died was also that if you watch him every week you notice that he is always able to slide forward and to his left (behind Saturday and Lilja), even when he's throwing deep to his right. That's kind of his safe zone, which is why it's definitely not accurate to say his O Line sucks.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
In general Peyton's mobility is way underrated. Yeah, he's not the fastest guy out there, but he moves around a lot better than say Tom Brady who is also very good. More importantly though, he doesn't seem to lose any accuracy when running.
Also, teams are afraid to blitz him because he almost always finds the hot read. So he's lines are bad, but he's still only facing 4 pass rushers.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
"Then, with Carolina leading 19-7 late in the game, Moore faked a toss left, bootlegged right and threw a perfect 55-yard strike to Gary Barnidge, icing the game. The undrafted Moore totally outperformed Brett Favre."
I'm a Panther's fan, and that's totally bogus. The actual throw was a fairly terrible toss about 15 yds down the field that Barnidge made a great adjustment to even get to, and then rumbled 30 yds thanks to the terrible throw actually making defenders run into each other and a nice block by Steve Smith.
The rule is 89!
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
um did he just say don't think twice it's all right is cliche?
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
That might be the worst thing I've ever read by Easterbrook. And I've read a lot of crap through the years.
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
He has become template driven.
I think all of us could write one of his columns as they are basically the same each time.
I enjoy reading these comments and usually skip actually reading his column.
"The rule is 89" My new favorite quote
Re: TMQ: 12 Days Of Christmas
On the 12th day of Christmas, Jake Delhomme gave to me
12 interceptions
11 interceptions
10 interceptions
9 interceptions
8 interceptions
7 interceptions
6 interceptions
5 inter-ceptions
4 interceptions
3 interceptions
2 interceptions
And another interception for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
But it's okay because he's just having fun out there
And I'm not bitter
Really
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